Goldsmith, in his book ‘The Terror Presidency” says that Addington, Philbin, Rizzo, Haynes, Alice Fisher, Goldsmith, along with several Pentagon lawyers went to Guantanemo, to the military brig in Charleston (Padilla), and Norfolk (Hamdi), on September 26, 2002. pages 99-101

She is not suggesting htat Chertoff went to Gitmo to watch. She is pointing out that Chertoff seems to have colluded with Yoo.

“We The People: under the Constitutiion do not exist. We are serfs for corporate Amerca. Paraguay let that happen, the corporation now owns them.

I just don’t understand why you do not get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All of you except maybe the NorskeFlamethrower and a few need to know YOU don’t have a government…THEY have your government…They own the podium…They could give a rats ass what we think, post or opine or whine. WE THE PEOPLE are marginalized.

Impeachment is the only solution. This is what happened to the Jews in Germamny. It is the same just be nicey nicey and the bad dream will go away.

The Bad Dream is reality and it is growing worse every day!!!

Bombing Iran is next…the runup spin is in PROGRESS. And YOUR representatives have been bought by K street.

EFery one of us should be calling all day every day for the Impeachment hearings or let the clock run out which is what Bushco is relying on.

Alberto R. Gonzales, then the White House counsel and now attorney general; David S. Addington, legal counsel to Vice President Dick Cheney, now his chief of staff; Timothy E. Flanigan, the deputy White House counsel; William Haynes III, the Pentagon general counsel; Larry Thompson, then deputy attorney general; Christopher A. Wray, the principal associate deputy attorney general, now head of Criminal Division at the Justice Department; and John Yoo, a lawyer in the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel,

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15361462/page/2/

I think I conflated Wray, who became head of Criminal division, with being in Crim at the time of the visit. So if Chertoff gave the “ok” he managed to keep completely away from the footprints.

non-sequitor – why Larry Thompson gets such a bye on so many fronts is beyond me.

Hmmmm…and when did they allege that Moussaoui was tortured?

I don’t think they did. They alleged IIRC that Zubaydah and KSM were tortured and tht both of those could be exculpatory witnesses for Moussaoui vis a vis his knowledge of the 911 plan – if non-tortured testimony could be obtained. The Circuit court repeatedly overrode the trial judge’s efforts to give defense counsel access to Z and KSM and to evidence related to their questioning by the US in detention. Still, the judge did have some orders out requiring DOJ (which doesn’t believe in judges anymore – just actors sitting up in a chair whose “orders” can be laughed at and treated with disdain and contempt bc there are not non-corrupt prosecutors to prosecute the violation of those orders) to provide info and protect evidence, which is why the lies in the DOJ affidavits to the court, the failures to produce and the DOJ failure to prevent the destruction of the waterboarding tapes has all become an issue in the Moussaoui case.

There has never been, to my knowledge, such massive DOJ participation in and cover up for destruction of evidence, false statements to the courts and obstruction of justice. It truly and forever has and will change the landscape of “law” in this nation.

And there aren’t any heroes among the lawyers at DOJ. There are some among the military lawyers, and the non-lawyer ranks of DOJ such as Dan Coleman. But the lawyers at DOJ? The only thing I’ve seen that really smacks of any baseline integrity is David Kris’ post-DOJ participation in the illegal surveillance discussions. There my be other and better and more examples – but I can’t think of any.

Your comment about “cagey”, and sending a surrogate, I suspect, hit the nail on the head. These people seem to glory in twisting and tweaking the language just so, lying through their teeth in spirit, while smugly fudging the truth with little qualifier words and the like. Like a hyena rolling in $@&%.

Not that I think there is any question of his knowledge, but just that unlike Yoo and Addington, he had a proxy fill his seat at the torture table in GITMO. IIRC at least – and I may not be remembering correctly.

Bobby G if you give up on Impeachment Bushco skates and opens the door to future Presidential criminal activity as “Executive priveledge” is a firewall to prosecution.

The next Government will have an agenda with a lot of lobby money, more than ever before seen, to block any prosecution. It is now or never. Take a cold shower brew up some strong coffee and sit down with pen and paper and draw the flow chart for post facto Bushco prosecution. That is what will not happen. Saying differently is obfuscating.

That particular one a comparison and contrast of two positions of psychologists about “the program”