Good morning Elliot. Go Jane.

Zed!

By a whisker I missed it. The title of my autobiography.

Good Morning Elliot.

Good Morning.

I haven’t seen her columns lately, but when I used to get the Indy Star, I enjoyed reading Mary Beth Schneider’s columns. The only reporter out of many that seemed to know what reporting was about.

Gloom morning pups, least that’s the way it looks here. Can’t wait to see Jane. :)

I like the title ;)

OT

Power to the people
Two of the biggest threats facing humanity today are climate change and global poverty. SolarAid helps to combat both, simply by bringing clean, renewable power to the poorest people in the world.

Watch the video here. I just found this group last night online and it seems like another great effort to do something right.

Just got a “severe thunderstorm” warning here. 60 mph wind and nickel size hail. Sweet.

That’s a fabulous idea.
One of our biggest problems in aid to the less developed world, is the thinking that it has to be done the way we do things here. This is refreshing outside the box thinking. nice.

Thanks for introducing the program to us, MM

After reading this morning about the DOJ letter on “enhanced interrogation” I hope someone on the Sunday curcuit asks both the Obama and Clinton people how they veiw this and the other memos. Is it really legal just because some puppet in the administration writes a memo that says that it is, if the end justifies the means?

Indeed it is, out of the box thinking. They dynamics of the world have changed considerably over the years, and the poor people constantly et left behind. That has to change.

Boy we were staring at the face of a fierce line of thunderstorms last night, but the cold front came through and blew the thunder away. I only heard rumblings while I listened to the rain on the roof.

We need April rain for those May flowers, I know, but it will only make the grass grow. And Lawn Guy and I aren’t close to an agreement for this year. So, I’m thinking of a small goat. My neighbor has a rooster so how could they complain? I don’t know where they keep him in the winter, but he’s baaaack! He has to be at the upper limit for rooster life expectancy.

After reading this morning about the DOJ letter on “enhanced interrogation” I hope someone on the Sunday curcuit asks both the Obama and Clinton people how they veiw this and the other memos. Is it really legal just because some puppet in the administration writes a memo that says that it is, if the end justifies the means?

that sounds really interesting, mmc, can you gives us a link?

The IAF The Israeli air force – the best in the Middle East – has to prepare for anything says one of its officers, because if Israel loses just one war, it will cease to exist.

What exactly does “cease to exist” mean for a country, e.g., did South Africa “cease to exist,” when the blacks came to power? Is this about the alleged “right” of a particular religious/ethnic group to remain dominant on a certain plot of land?

Nobody asked me, but I think as the eras and ages go by, the creation of the State of Israel ranks one of the greatest mistakes ever.

Here is a quote from the article on Think Progress. I don’t know how to do a link. Sorry!

“The fact that an act is undertaken to prevent a threatened terrorist attack, rather than for the purpose of humiliation or abuse, would be relevant to a reasonable observer in measuring the outrageousness of the act,” said Brian A. Benczkowski, a deputy assistant attorney general, in the letter, which had not previously been made public.

Good morning to all,
To me the whole republican mantra has been the ends justify the mean(s)
When I see the letters Scalia in print I see the embodiment of the worst this country has to offer.
Both him and Thomas had a glaring conflict of interest,being that they both had a family member EMPLOYED by the Bush campaign,but as this hemorhoidial asshole says he decides when he has a conflict of interest. Warm up the impeachment machinery to purge these to, as the republicians say,to make an example of them.
I’m sure as soon as congress finishes planning the award ceremony for the glorious Iraq rape they will find some time to devote to the machinery of government.

Thanks for bringing this to the table.

I found it at
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/.....ional-law/

(I just copied and pasted the link as I write this. Easiest way to do it.)

“The fact that an act is undertaken to prevent a threatened terrorist attack, rather than for the purpose of humiliation or abuse, would be relevant to a reasonable observer in measuring the outrageousness of the act,”

that logic does not compute. I’m reasonable and I observe it to be a travesty of justice and our ideals.

Torture is torture.

The fast (not the pretty) way to link:
-At the page you want to link to, right click on the URL address. A box will pop up. Click ‘copy’
-Return to FDL’s ‘Leave your response” box
-right click again. When the box pops up, click paste.

I agree that impeachment must be actively pursued. By sweeping all (and there’s too many to even list) the criminal actions done by this administration under the rug, we’re allowing these actions to become the standard rather than the exception. As we have seen. if you give them an inch, they’ll take ten miles!

Yes!

Different groups each hand their own agenda, but Britain’s agenda was particularly interesting. Tiny Britain had managed to dominate the world by exploiting local animosities to leverage their own forces. And, when local animosities didn’t exist, they created them by importing settlers of another culture. This tactic was, they felt, particularly effective in Ireland, where they imported the the protestant faction from Britain. Per the memoirs of Sir Ronald Storrs, the Brits felt that “A Jewish state… could be for England a ‘little Jewish Ulster’ in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism.”

the creation of the State of Israel ranks one of the greatest mistakes ever.

Not sure I agree completely. However, the inability to adjust over time to the gross injustice perpetrated on the Palestinians and a fundamental refusal of all involved parties to behave rationally and reasonably may qualify as the greatest destabilizing factor in our world over the last 60 years. When statesmanship is required it seems all we ever get is zealotry.

Irrespective the issue, intractable zealotry NEVER leads to a workable solution for any problem.

g’mornin’

appreciate it if pups please listen today to see if either of these are addressed-only have pbs-hardly mentioned anywhere

syrian pres flips the bird at bush and his merry band of mideast negotiators
http://ap.google.com/article/A.....AD908E8HO3
and days later, we release ’secret’ documents about syria…..elliot listed cnn late edition doing syria

======
and haven’t heard anything on this either–
an gop wants to add fisa to occupation/war supplemental–
http://thehill.com/leading-the.....04-24.html

dems want unemployment aid-
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....eheadlines

be back in a while, in the middle of looking up stuff from kirk’s farm bill……lovely mornin’…birds woke me up when they woke up…….

I filled out an interesting UCLA study this morning about torture and interrogation. I think it’s worth a look.

AND i have heard not a peep from obama, clinton or mccain on the bell shooting/not guilty verdict….
would like to know if any has or does hear any statement from any of them.

ponder ponder……

bbl

I agree that impeachment must be actively pursued. By sweeping all (and there’s too many to even list) the criminal actions done by this administration under the rug, we’re allowing these actions to become the standard rather than the exception.

We need to redeem ourselves by putting the BushCo War Department on trial. The idea that there has to be enough votes to find them guilty BEFORE starting impeachment is ludicrous.

I watched the Tibet hearings Senator Boxer held this week, our moral authority in these matters is GONE — until we put our own war criminals on trial. And I don’t think the United States has the guts to do the right thing .

Obama’s on

Not for 2 more hours here…

Here is this morning’s NYT article on that CIA letter.

I still can’t decide if I want to watch the FauxNews interview this morning or not!

Relevant to torture~~

I found this by Brian Farrell:

‘The Puke Ray’
One of the Institute’s current projects is testing The Distributed Sound and Light Array Debilitator, a.k.a. the “puke ray,” by those willing to call it what it is. The device purports to combine just the right sequence of disturbing sound decibels and light wavelengths as to render the victim dizzy and nauseous. The Department of Homeland Security, which invested $1 million for testing, hopes to see the device “in the hands of thousands of policemen, border agents and National Guardsmen” by 2010.

link here:
http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/5181

This is supposedly “not” torture, in that it doesn’t cause physical bleeding or other harm, and will pacify those who otherwise would not back war or other aggression because of death.

IMO, you would have to be a sociopath to say this causes no harm. Or not harming in the same way as physical harm. Just because blood doesn’t spill doesn’t mean that it’s not permanently damaging. The psychological harm would be permanent in that it would paralyze those affected from effectively voicing dissenting views.

It reminds me of those Star Trek episodes where they had collars on everyone and the collars would emit high-pitched squeals to anyone dissenting.

We need to redeem ourselves by putting the BushCo War Department on trial. The idea that there has to be enough votes to find them guilty BEFORE starting impeachment is ludicrous.

Exactly! That is what impeachment inquiries are for. And such inquiries are one place that the Administration can’t argue “executive privilege.”

our moral authority in these matters is GONE

Breaks the heart, no?

watch it
Wallace is trying to make it ALL about race (surprise!)

Didn’t they call them “agonizers,” or something like that?

Totally agree. How can we stand on the moral high ground with Abu gre, Guantanimo, renditions and “enhanced interrogations“. Sadly, I don’t think we’ll do anything. One of many concerns with Obama, is that he’ll try to put it all behind us in his bid for national unity . I read his answer to this question and he’s set the bar very high (but vague) in regard to any criminal prosecutions.

Sorry…it’s been too long. I just remember the scenes of people being crippled by the squeals…but agonizing pain does sound about right…

Obama on ‘fake news’….he loses two charm points from here.

Is Rush Limbaugh is an American terriorist?

Limbaugh wants riots at Dem convention

http://rawstory.com/rawreplay/index.php?p=902

Obama is getting a chance to refute the Faux issues that fuel Fox. Good for him.

“The fact that an act is undertaken to prevent a threatened terrorist attack, rather than for the purpose of humiliation or abuse, would be relevant to a reasonable observer in measuring the outrageousness of the act,” said Brian A. Benczkowski, a deputy assistant attorney general, in the letter, which had not previously been made public.

This echoes the language of the Yoo memo. Yoo went further asserting that the expected severity of an attack correlated with the severity of the interrogation technique up to and including killing the person being interrogated.

But at least he has said that he’ll consider it, which is farther than any of the other candidates have gone. Even Chris Dodd explicitly ruled it out.

I doubt Hillary would consider it, because Bill was involved in authorizing renditioning. And I doubt McCain would consider it, because he has developed a bizarre empathy for torturers. (See section 1004 of his Detainee Treatment Act.)

Exactly.

Anyone watching Obama? He’s doing very well. Chris Wallace is doing a rather fair interview. The questions are slanted (of course) but he’s giving Obama a chance to answer them without too much interupting.

Chris Wallace is out of the gate raising Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers, you know the stuff that defines character! Obama seems to be more deferential to Wallace than he is deserving.

“Honest, your Honor, I wasn’t getting off on crushing his testicles. I was doing it to prevent a terrorist attack.” ;-)

He should be arrested for inciting a riot.

thank you for watching so i don’t have to. appreciate all comments/info.

It makes no sense, so they torture someone who they allegedly believe knows something about an impending attack; but just for arguments sake, suppose the person never did know anything about an impending attack? So then what? We say “oopsie, sorry” ?

On further thought, there will be American children there too, some one needs to stop anti American Rush now before innocent American’s including children get hurt or killed. Rush should loose his job over this.

I don’t think Chris is doing a gotcha. Obama is holding his own and answering the questions respectfully. I just love that guy. LOL

BTW there is this story in the NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04.....ne.html?hp

about McCain using a corporate jet owned by a company owned by his wife and underpaying for its use. While not illegal, it is another instance of McCain talking big about campaign reform for others but not being too much of a stickler about it in his own case.

But we deserve an definite answer to this question from all candidates. After 500 debates I’m still waiting to hear it! I also still want to know their veiws on executive privelege and presidential power. Do they really subscribe to the Nixon/Cheney/Bush theory that if the president does something it’s not illegal? Unfortunately all the debates, regardless of network, have been designed for ratings over substance.

Oh yeah, you get lots of actionable intelligence from dead people. Idiots.

It would be nice for Obama to turn the tables on Wallace and his neocon friends and show the country just what hypocritical racists they really are. I have little doubt that Rev Wright will be among the topics. By doing a little research I have no doubt that this whole thing was a hit job by ABC with absolutely no redeeming quality.

I’ve listened to both of the sermons ABC’s sound bites came from, in their entirety, and all I can say is that I’ve been heavily involved in the anti-war movement since early 2002 and I’d like to know why I hadn’t heard of this man until recently. Had he spoken to the half million on the mall those many years ago we just might be in a different place today.

I would encourage everyone to listen to these sermons, whether you define yourself as a Christian or not. I’m not, but the social justice implications contained in these sermons cannot be ignored. His words transcend any religious connotations.

http://odeo.com/audio/17889043/view

http://odeo.com/audio/17890793/view

The first link is the 9/11 sermon, the second is the god and government sermon.

Peace Love Light

Obama’s trying to appeal to the ‘middle-of-the road-voters’ right now.

And, now he switched to criticizing McCain on tax flip-flop and the irresponsibility of tax cuts for the wealthy.

We NEVER say sorry.

It makes no sense, so they torture someone who they allegedly believe knows something about an impending attack; but just for arguments sake, suppose the person never did know anything about an impending attack? So then what? We say “oopsie, sorry” ?

Actually minus the apology that is exactly what Yoo was arguing. He did throw in the standard caveat that the torturer should have a reasonable belief that there was an attack pending but such a belief looks like standard boilerplate. Of course, a torturer will always make such a claim.

what SD said.

(p.s. SD, i listened to the “confusing god and gov” sermon this morning.)

Wow. Rachel is correct in that if Limbaugh doesn’t say anything before the Denver convention, and riots occur, he’s not liable. But what about his website, which according to them, does have another incite to riot?

I’m a worrier, so I am thinking that they could easily get people in there starting trouble, but identifying themselves as Dems or liberals, etc.

What are people going to riot about?

I don’t think Chris is doing a gotcha. Obama is holding his own and answering the questions respectfully.

I agree. The questions are slanted but then Wallace gives Obama a wide berth to respond.

I wondered why clips weren’t being released that put Obama in a bad light. Could it be that they can’t find anything they can use against him? That can’t be good for Wallace’s career prospects.

I’m a worrier, so I am thinking that they could easily get people in there starting trouble, but identifying themselves as Dems or liberals, etc.

par for the course - but it is more usually the police (saw it myself at the ftaa protests - provocateurs).

We at least have this from Obama:

CASPER — Barack Obama told a cheering crowd at a town hall meeting in Casper today that he would restore respect for law in the White House by reviewing every executive order issued by President George W. Bush and discarding any deemed unconstitutional.

Obama’s comments came in response to a question from a man in the audience who said he worried that presidents sometimes consider themselves above the law.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_8492078

You’ll have to ask Rush…

I would assume it would start with something stupid…

if the dems fund the war again, there are going to be anti-war protests outside the dnc (hope to be there myself). don’t know if they will be big or not - but i guess rush is advocating for counter demonstrations?

If the American public hasn’t rioted over this Iraq fiasco, the illegal wiretapping,the trampling on the Constitution or the voting frauds of 2000 or 2004, they better not riot at the Convention! Somewhere the priorities are out of whack.

And/or, here is a link to the Bill Moyers interview, which I think shows some of the kindness and scholarship which may not be apparent in just the sermons themselves. The more rational, fair minded people learn about Rev. Wright, the more positive he becomes as a factor in either the primary or general election, IMHO.

I’m ignoring Rush and his instigations about causing trouble so I won’t be asking him. He put the idea out and I prefer to let it the idea die.

I think the god and govt sermon was the more powerful of the two. I’m afraid if this pagan had been in the audience that day I’d have been on my feet yelling, “Tell it!” Wow. Just powerful.

The Moyers interview definitely compliments the sermons.

thank you so much for providing those links. Watching Rev. Wright the other night on Bill Moyers was, for me, a real pleasure.

I say goddam ABC for creating this tempest
Obama’s Pastor: God Damn America, U.S. to Blame for 9/11
Just look at the provocative headline they used.

It’s not like we aren’t staring at a world full of real troubles in the face right now.

You are in for an experience, my friend.

Oh, the Tudor and Stuart invasion of Ireland.
Half the people they stomped on were descendatns of people who had been in the Norman invasion of Ireland (’Dermot and the Earl’). The original FitzGerald, for one.

That’s good, I’m glad you’ll be doing that because the Dems will fund it. Stay calm and safe.

You’ll have to ask Rush…

I would assume it would start with something stupid…

and Rush is something stupid.

The Obama interview is over. I have to believe that he helped himself. I’m not sure Fox viewers would ever vote for him but he was reasonable, obviously intelligent and he responded well to some of the faux issues that Fox has been hammering.

Now, the roundtable where they’ll all bash him. And then, tomorrow, O’Reilly will have on his body language expert to bash him some more.

OK now for the Fox News AllStars.

The Wallace interview is worth a watch imo.

thank you. will also plan to attend some nonviolence training in preparation if it looks like it might get dicey.

Today’s Fortune Cookie:
The greatest disloyalty one can offer to great pioneers is to refuse to move an inch from where they stood.

Can we impeach the idiots in DC now, please? [no disrespect to genuine idiots intended]

How far will you have to travel to the convention?

You’re making me daydream here…

Heh.

Remember, too, that there’s a lot of money in DC that was, as far as I know, used to plant people in the audience of the campaigns–it could find its way into the hands of protestors-by-hire.

It’s a bad economy (Ms. Obvious) and people could be bribed into creating a riot by payola. Not that I’m saying that the campaigns themselves are doing it. Anyone with any interest, especially monetary, could be behind starting trouble.

According to Kristol, who’s all for Hillary, she’s way better candidate than Obama. He’s got a dog in this fight, doesn’t he?

It comes on in about 6 minutes here. This will be a first for me, watching anything on Fox News. It breaks an easy to keep vow.

from MA. haven’t figured out how i’m going to get there… but if i can do any traveling this summer - that will be it.

It looks like it, but it seems out of character for you to refer to her in that way.

Bill Kristol was saying that Hillary was the way better candidate not me, sorry I was unclear there.

I was teasing. I shouldn’t have.

OK, who’s watching MTP,

Howard Dean’s on

lol!

Well, although the odds of Mrs Gumby allowing it are slim to none, lets go ahead and plan to NOT riot together!

I’m out. Have a good day, folks.

see ya later!

I couldn’t agree more. But, honestly, the question of prosecution wasn’t mentioned in polite company until a the ABC reports that the NSC principals were choreographing torture and Bush annnounced that he approved it, i.e., when Bush arrogantly laid the smoking gun on the table. At that point, some MSM folks started mentioning softly that there might be a possibility of perhaps something by way of prosecution that might happen. Ya thing?

Please bear in mind that my legal heros, Marty Lederman, Jack Balkin, and Glenzilla, completely discount the possibility. Per Marty, “Dream on.”

60 Minutes: The IAF The Israeli air force – the best in the Middle East – has to prepare for anything says one of its officers, because if Israel loses just one war, it will cease to exist. Bob Simon reports.

what a pile of steaming…..!

Howard’s doing well on MTP. Russert loves his gotchas but Dean is keeping them at bay imo

you’ve got a few months to convince mrs. gumby to want to go too!

Rush is encouraging his zombie listeners to riot in Denver? This I gotta see. When was the last time anybody saw more than 20 of these zombies gathered for a demonstration? If I knew how to link to a simple stored image I’d show the guy with the sign, “GET A BRAIN MORANS.” (sic) It’d be a riot, alright. A riot of laughs. These clowns would be stumbling over each other trying to get in front of a camera, any camera.

I searched Rush + Riot and there are abt 508,000 pages. We need to nip this in the bud. He is anti American.

http://www.google.com/search?q.....38;oe=utf8

We’ll never see anything come out of it. Pelosi sat in on meetings about it and I’m sure Boxer and a lot of others knew and closed their eyes and ears. Too many people would be on the dock! Bush and Company will sliver away unscaithed.

I hope it is a reasoned piece, but the promotion suggests otherwise, imo.

I’m steeling myself to watch the arrogant Scalia. He’s a rogue elephant.

Cool video, Elliott. It’s a reminder of how little and insignificant we on planet Earth are when faced with the rest of the universe. ;-)

here ya go!
Get a Brain! Morans

thank you, got that as an Earth Day greeting.

Dat’s da one! Thanks. How do you do that?

It’s very cool. I wished more people on our planet would remember how tiny we are compared to the universe and spending our time killing each other in wars and illegal occupations is ridiculous. *sigh*

i suspect that the initiation, by the clinton adminstration, of extraordinary rendition may have something to do with the reluctance of dems to look to closely at the issue of torture.

My local PBS channels do not have “To the Contrary” on their lineup…:(

There is a hard to watch youtube about the state of stateside military housing over on kos frontpage … Fort Bragg baricks

Good Morning everyone…

Here’s the DNC’s new ad a