Login HereSo you have to wonder how Goldberg explains a guy like Tony Zirkle: good conservative Republican running for Congress in Indiana's 2nd District who decides to show up and talk at the Hitler's Birthday celebration held by the local chapter of the NSM.
You may recall one of our main questions regarding Goldberg's text:
How does he account for the continuing presence -- from the 1920s up through the present -- of definably fascist groups, not just American entities like the Ku Klux Klan, the Christian Identity movement, the Posse Comitatus, the Aryan Nations, the National Alliance, Hammerskin Nation, and White Aryan Resistance (to name just a few), but also European groups like Vlaams Belang and Jean-Marie Le Pen's National Front, all of whom are clearly right-wing political entities? Doesn't this lay waste to his claim that fascism is "a phenomenon of the left"?
Zirkle himself feigned a certain ignorance about the nature of the group he talked to, which indicates he read Jonah's book:
When asked if he was a Nazi or sympathized with Nazis or white supremacists, Zirkle replied he didn't know enough about the group to either favor it or oppose it.
This is just a great opportunity for me to witness," he said, referring to his message and his Christian belief.
He also told WIMS radio in Michigan City that he didn't believe the event he attended included people necessarily of the Nazi mindset, pointing out the name isn't Nazi, but Nationalist Socialist Workers Party.
No, I guess he didn't read Jonah, who does make a big thing out of that fact that "Nazi" is just short for "National Socialist."
But it's obvious he in fact fits right in with his audience:
An account of the gathering on www.Overthrow.com says "Zirkle spoke on his history as a state's attorney in Indiana, prosecuting Jewish and Zionist criminal gangs involved in trafficking prostitutes and pornography from Russia and the Zionist entity.''
... Zirkle said he feels he was misunderstood. His real mission, he said, is to rid the country of pornography, and that's what he was saying at the ANSWP gathering. So how did his comment about Jews fit in?
"Most of the male porn stars were Jewish at the beginning," Zirkle explained.
I'm sure Goldberg will explain that this is just another case of a Republican being seduced by liberal propaganda.
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Are we back?
…think so! Blue America takeover FAIL! PWNED! :)
Excellent post, David!
I’m so glad we’re back. I broke out into a sweat, felt light headed, had pain shooting down my arm, and had a heart attack, because I thought FireDogLake was kaput. Phew. So glad you’re all back! Missed ya even if it was for only a few minutes. ;-)
Talk about being in The Dark, huh?
Pantload’s sole qualification as a journalist:
Mommy helped Linda Tripp stab Monica Lewinsky in the back.
That and 25¢ will get you a column gig at the LATimes.
Heh, you do know the first step of the 12 steps, eh? ;-)
David, you forgot to add the right wing female jackboot licker who is running the RNC in North Carolina. Can’t think of her name at the moment, but she should definitely be added. ;-)
Isn’t it admitting you have a problem?
David, Goldberg is calling you out by proxy…
Apparently that’s in the Claremont Review.
Where is everyone? Don’t tell me they were raptured during the Act Blue takeover!!!!! LOL
Whether saluting Hitler or kissing the ring of Sun Myung Moon, IOKIYAR. If every wingnut were this gormless the membership of NAMBLA would be much, much higher…
This Zirkle dirtbag must be an idiot or he thinks the rest of us are. He’s speaking to a group he doesn’t know much about but can’t decide if they are good or bad when told they are Nazis? So glad a Republican finally came out of the closet and declared - or almost - that he is a fascist.
Is it “Put on a really big pot of coffee”?
No? ;)
Dude, it’s Sunday evening. Some people (not you and I, obviously) have lives and things…
I wondered what happened to FDL. Had a minor panic attack.
That certainly works too…! ;-)
The nitwit shames himself posting the VERY few good reviews on his personal site. Its like “see, I is a writer!” Pantload is beneath contempt.
…prosecuting Jewish and Zionist criminal gangs involved in trafficking prostitutes and pornography…
Actually, lots and lots of porn stars today come from Eastern Europe generally. Why? Supply and demand. Eastern Europeans look just like Americans and West Europeans, but work for much less. It has nothing to do with religion or ethnicity per se.
Not, um, er, that I would know these sorts of things of course.
I’ve only been here for 30 minutes or so, because I spent most of the afternoon meeting with the Oxford County Democrats in my area. I have a life also, but there were quite a few people on the last thread and I thought maybe they had been raptured when FDL was having server problems. That’s all.
Sooo, the Lake worked on Firefox 3 Beta but not 2.0.14? What was that all about? On IE 7 it was a nightmare.
Dibs on their stuff!
To Thers @ 10
Sounds like a familiar review. Think I saw it before. The answer was that Goldberg is drawing a distinction without a difference by differentiating between classical and modern liberalism.
Pay no nevermind.
Your concern was genuine. That’s what’s important.
A little OT
Hugh Hewitt and his idiotic grin on c-span2 now.
Go ahead and mock, but Zirkle’s the only one helping fight against the tyrant king porn dragon
whatever happened to the John Birch Society?
A conservative I know posted a bunch of Zirkle links on another site. I was amused to see references he made to “divorce aids.” (Usually termed “marital aids”.)
What were they at the end, satiated?
Believe it or not they’re still up and fullashit.
sheesh, unbelievable
i though maybe they disappeared into Pat Robertson’s organization or something like that
A cousin sent her kids to a John Birch youth camp about 4 years ago. “Teaches them civics,” she said. I was speechless.
I guess it’s still going, how strong, I don’t know.
Ruth Bader Ginsberg is being interviewed on 60 minutes speaking of some one fighting fascism…especially that of the newest memebers of SCOTUS
eeps, alita too (gag)
I haven’t heard anything about the Birchers in years.
Camps? - lordy. Do they march around in brown shirts? Civics?
My understanding is that it’s very small and virtually nobody pays any attention to them. Barely a shadow of its former self. Now there were some nutjobs!
I quit taking the LA Times when Goldberg showed up. I really have zero interest in anything he has to say…Unlike Will. and some other right wingers, Goldberg is always fact deficient and silly. One could write his column from nothing but a month old New York Post for information
Some people should not have children.
And I know some of ‘em.
If people quit having children– the problems of the world would evenutally get buried.
POLL: National Daily Tracking for 4/27
The Gallup Daily National Obama 47, Clinton 47 McCain 45, Obama 45… Clinton 47, McCain 44 Rasmussen Reports National Obama 48, Clinton 42 McCain 46, Obama 46… McCain 47, Clinton 45
(pollster.com)
this is the primary that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend, some one started runnin, oh bout 2005, and now the main stream media just keeps it all alive, this is the primary that never ends, yes it goes on and on my frend, just when you thought that super tuesday would give us all break, nothing got settled, nothing put on the breaks, this is the primary that never ends, yes it goes on and on …
No, they wear black dresses.
Huh? I see the … but
Neevvvermind.
Tony Zirkle: Nazi sympathizer, or just another stupid Republican? You be the judge, tonight on “Simple Answers to Simple Questions.”
Which means that Jonah still has a chance at his first avocation, I guess.
These Neo-Cons don’t want others to realize that they have made a pact with the devil in order to gain power and influence and are perfectly willing to practice the most disgraceful historical revisionism in order to forge such an alliance.
It would be as absurd as Black Nationalists forging ties with the KKK. Yet they know they have to try it, since they are rapidly losing the “argument” with the pragmatic “middle”. The fear card now only works with the most mentally damaged on the extremes…too much shouting “Level Orange Warning” to the public. Too many prosecutions of people who pose no real threat while suppressing our rights. And then they went and got us bogged down in a cesspool; are losing a war in Afghanistan, to boot; and butchered the economy through avarice.
The John Birch Society was established in Indianapolis, Indiana on December 9, 1958 by a group of twelve “patriotic and public-spirited” men led by Robert Welch, Jr., a retired candy manufacturer from Belmont, Massachusetts. A noted founding member was Fred Koch, founder of Koch Industries, one of the largest private corporations in America. Another was Revilo Pendleton Oliver, a University of Illinois professor who would later co-found the racist National Alliance. A transcript of Welch’s two-day presentation at the founding meeting was published as The Blue Book of the John Birch Society and became a cornerstone of its beliefs, with each new JBS member receiving a copy. [4]
“According to Welch,” writes the watchdog group Political Research Associates, “both the U.S. and Soviet governments are controlled by the same furtive conspiratorial cabal of internationalists, greedy bankers, and corrupt politicians. If left unexposed, the traitors inside the U.S. government would betray the country’s sovereignty to the United Nations for a collectivist New World Order managed by a ‘one-world socialist government.’
Which means that Jonah still has a chance at his first avocation, I guess.
yea, if he could reach is own unit he’d never leave the house!
Indiana had some early connections with the KKK as well—what’s in the water up there?
Yep, the Republican Party in a nutshell (pun fully intended).
Ewwwww.Does she ever look rode hard and put up wet…Yuck
My statement was judgemental and I do apologize. I try not to be.
But, I’ve been watching Antwone Fisher here and it just breaks my heart to see children being abused. And, I thought of those poor children having to go John Birch camps.
I’ve been very emotional lately. Don’t know why.
That’s what I try to tell people when get all huffy about the south. I’m from Chicago and I post the statement of MLK about people from Mississippi going to Chicago to “learn how to hate.’
Thanks, Thers. Hadn’t seen that.
And it’s simply false that I confuse “classical liberalism” with “modern liberalism.” It’s not a distinction that’s germane to my critique.
OTOH, Goldberg constantly ignores the connection between “classical fascism” and “modern fascism.” Indeed, he seems utterly unaware that the latter exists — except, of course, in the person of modern liberalism.
McCain just said the guy who served over a decade living and helping poor people in South Chicago is “out of touch” with the poor…while he, the spouse of a hundred million dollar liquor heiress, who has ten large homes, and flies to events using his wife’s private jet…has his fingers on the pulse of the poor.
…Unfortunately that pulse is in the jugular vein, and McCain is strangling the lower classes.
His “let them eat crumbs” gas-tax revocation is such obvious pandering. He doesn’t mention that the infrastructure will decay as a consequence (of course, if you use jets rather than highways and roads one might not notice the difference) or that as soon as the tax suspension ends fuel prices will skyrocket…and hit harder since measures to deal with the root causes will only be deferred. Then you still have to fund even more repairs (not longer maintenance…but actual repairs). Thgis is precisely what happened in the case of Katrina…deffered maintenance and upgrades.
You don’t have to apologize. Sometimes the truth is a little rough around the edges but is a truth nonetheless. I’ve seen enough abused children to last me a lifetime.
I lived in Dallas for over a decade- my only stint in the south..It didn’t seem that race relations were any worse there than anywhere else I have lived….Somethin strange about Indiana though. Rural farm sort of place I would have thought- why so fuckin angry?
Not angry - scared of change, I think. That old “it’s always been this way” sort of thing.
Plus the shock that apparently she is very good friends with
Scallia and I was shocked at how pleasant and humorous he was. Those Jesuits almost always do a good job of education from what I have seen.
Maybe so- I haven’t spent much time there. Some pretty country I must say.
Unwarranted fear. A lot of rural folks never had any dealings with anyone who didn’t look and act like them. The civil rights movement gave them their first look and it scared them. They in turn passed those fears on to their children. Same old crap that’s going on with immigrants. Afraid of job loss to people not like them, etc. Perception is often more powerful than truth, unfortunately.
They had a bonafide Klansman for a governor at one point too.
-G
Did anyone see 60 Minutes?
Exactly! I want their keyboards! LOL
You said it. That was my response to the story as well.
They have no idea what the Poor want, think, dream, feel.
F’cking Elitists!
And fiercely independent and don’t want government in their bidness. Lots of folks here are still bitching about daylight saving time and the sale of the Indiana toll road to a consortium. Quite a few Dems at the local and state level, but crimson read state nationally.
Veins don’t have a pulse. He must have his finger on the carotid artery.
The piece on the Israeli Air Force has me wondering if the Pentagon farmed out their propaganda outfit to the Israelis.
War, war, war…..
-G
I am not a social scientist, but maybe because great-great-grandpappy died down in Alabama during the Civil War, “a big dustup over keeping some slaves”? Racism doesn’t just go away, it has to be confronted.
No. I figured there would be some really kind, considerate people at the Lake that would so I wouldn’t have to watch His Arrogant Smugness.
Guess we’ll all get to know Indiana better in the next week or so..They have a 9% african american population so it’s not all white up there.
Southern Indiana is pretty. Northern and central Indiana flat and boring.
Thanks- I had a guy who worked for me who passed away- so many of us flew up to Indiana to attend his services. His family was delightful and gracious and owned a beautiful piece of rolling property outside Indianapolis…Lovely place for the service.
Portion of a very long Charlie Cook article on election 08:
It’s almost like she’s stuck in a race that she no longer has a decent chance of winning. Short of Obama completely collapsing, it’s hard to see how Clinton can still prevail but not at all hard to see how she gets outcomes today and perhaps in some of the future events that keep her in the race.
Polls show that the Democratic Party is deeply divided on this nomination and increasingly there is hand-wringing in the party over whether this continued fight will jeopardize their chances in November.
Many are pointing to polls that show an inordinate number of Clinton supporters not eager to support Obama if he wins the nomination as well as Obama backers who don’t want to support Clinton should she win.
These kinds of results are hardly unusual while a nomination is still contested, indeed they are to be expected.
If you still see these results in September or October, that’s a problem. In April, that’s not a problem.
And with Democrats’ fundraising more robust than ever and Republicans not measuring up to past financial benchmarks, that buys Democrats some time and offsets many of these problems. It’s not to say that these things won’t be problems but that they are not yet problems for Democrats.
Assuming Obama is the Democratic nominee, what should concern them more is that while Obama might outperform Clinton and do better than Democrats usually do with college-educated and younger voters, he underperforms among older and less-educated voters.
To have presumptive GOP nominee Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., running 6 points ahead of Obama among the 1,140 voters with a high school education or less, in a Gallup Poll of 6,158 registered voters taken March 31-April 6 — a group that Democrats normally win easily — should be a cause of considerable concern. That sample had a 3-point error margin.
Can Obama count on overperforming with college graduates enough to make up for his losses among less educated, white voters? Can Obama count on young voters turning out in sufficient numbers to offset his weaker performances among older voters?
Party strategists already worry that Florida, Missouri and Ohio might be less competitive for Democrats with Obama running than they were for Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., and former Vice President Gore in 2004 and 2000, respectively, and maybe weaker than if Clinton were the nominee.
I saw the part on Scallia, not the earlier part.
Of course they did. We have a White House, Pentagon, and intelligence right now using Israel to fan the flames to get what they want. I wonder if Israel ever thinks they’ll end up destroyed in the end because of their contacts here in America? I doubt it. Look at Joe Lieberman right now. He thinks he’s loved by the right wingers, but little does he know he’s being used.
That’s my take on it.
Saw only the last few minutes of Scalia. He makes my skin crawl. When he talks about the Constitution being a “dead document” I want to scream. How he can say that about a document that makes provisions for it’s own revision is totally beyond me.
I’ve heard Scalia asking questions a few times during oral arguments..
Have to say he sounds brighter than hell- but then there are plenty of bright fascists in the world
I “loved” the conversation about who among us are not part of “We the People”…leaves out alot.
OK. Bear with me. Time for cute (and to see if I’ve got this figured out.)
Yang
And another
Far out.
Doesn’t take Sigmund Freud to figure out that back story….
”Most of the male porn stars were Jewish at the beginning,” Zirkle explained.
and god created man
..and he was nekkid…….
now for the bad one–
”Most of the male porn stars were Jewish at the beginning,” Zirkle explained.
ahhhhhh, so that ’thing’ about jewish men is true? /s
(you know there had to be someone there who said that)
unbelievable
=====
northern indiana–the dunes area, is beautiful….
and my sister took me to one of her favorite places for my birthday in february
nashville, indiana
brown county
beautiful place-forest, little arts town…bed and breakfast…winery or two….i’m not a ’shopper’ and i loved shopping there…didn’t buy that much but had fun looking for what i did buy…
was there in the early 80’s was fun to go back.
highly recommend it for a getaway night or two.
is a little ’gatlinburg’
McBush is flyin round the nation on his wife’s company’s private jet (Cessna)
Ain’t it FUN ta be RICH?
How great/happy. Almost brought tears to my eyes; I swore off another cutie after the last one died. So now I adore from afar. Thank you.
The whole “We The People” thing is totally lost on the cretin. Daffy f#*king duck would be a better Supreme Court Justice.
(((RevBev & cuties)))
I’ve been there too but thought I could do better by saving some that would otherwise go to Rainbow Bridge way before their time because there wasn’t anyone to care for them. Got a house full of tigers and don’t regret it one minute. Keeps me poor as hell but money can’t replace those little voices every time I walk in the door.
Made myself cry.
Wasn’t that a great “share”. Really, thanks alot.
kirk–you have your ’i’m the dr. ask me a question ’i.d.’ on….
saw your response, left you a note….
======
the really good penguin show is on pbs…..
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so, david, what to do about mr. penis envy zirkle?
didn’t see him on tv, am going by comments
if the constitution is a ’dead document’ how could he have sworn to uphold it?
oh, it’s all making sense now.
Cute tigers, SD.
You emotional too?
What’s going on with us?
It’s a weary, teary world some days.
PS - my cat, Piccolo has a scratchy meow, like he’s got laryngitis.
These were teens, mid-teens. Sounded like a networking thing (you go there, attend seminars, make connections, you might get to work at some conservative think tank after graduation).
As far as I can tell there’s nothing but crap on the teevee tonight so I got out my collection of West Wing DVD’s and am starting from episode 1, the pilot.
I’ve got to tell you—it was made 10 years ago and remains brilliant. And it reflects a govt. I would die/kill for. Night and day compared with the nightmare we are living today.
I always think the parallel is so like the “inerrancy” of the Bible. It means to feed dust, or something, to women caught in adultery, etc. The contrast is with the other side in both debates for the text to be a living document (not, as he said, dead); each also evolves with the world it serves. No, I would not argue with Scallia; he has the true Fundy point of view that he’s right, and he said so.
Same with Yang. Only time I get a stereotypical meow is at the vet. These pix were her at 10, she’s almost 14 now. With her eye condition she’s not quite as pretty right now.
As the first half of the article points out…the responses by voters aligned with two Democratic candidates will be amplified while they are still in an “apparent” race. In fact, I’d say that the intensity of that would increase as it grows apparent that one of the candidates must make a “clean sweep” (or close to it) to win the nomination. Supporters will become even more fervant, simply because they are desperate to convince others of the need for their victory.
This, as the article points out, would be reflected in the ratings amongst those Democrats who are in demographics that have supported Hillary. They will report a higher support for McCain than Obama…even though those same categories will report a higher support for Clinton than McCain.
That’s precisely the demographics where one would expect to see the “heated campaign” defection reports coming from. But as pointed out, it’s expected and will deflate (also in the Obama demographics) once they begin to focus on the differences between the Republican and Democratic Candidates, the Parties, who supports them, and the impacts of those three in their lives.
The Democrats have a massive amount of money to carry their message out about the consequences of the policies of the last seven years. They will not be easily swayed by short-term and short-sighted solutions to real tangible problems anymore. They’ll recall how much that small tax cut (I think I got $70) in the highly acclaimed “Bush Tax Cut” program in 2004 actually helped them…and be reminded just how much the wealthy took home in comparison, on top of all the other tax cuts, the military contracts and other kickbacks tossed their way for campaign contributions, etc.
Obama will be easily able to contrast himself against McCain on the war and economy, and McCain’s whole effort to show himself the “salt-of-the-earth” is just silly. His votes, his wife and her wealth, her failure to reveal her taxes…and the fact that she is funnelling him cash that may have been written off as deductions….these will be big hurdles for him to overcome.
Unless there is a miraculous turnaround in Iraq and the economy McCain’s even numbers with Obama (and remember the demographic defections are already included in those numbers) is likely as good as it gets for him…unless one candidate uses the “nuclear option” on the other.
O I forgot: I meant to copy this that came to me this week.
“Earth Day was last Tuesday, but the focus on our “planet” continues (it’s the “planet” when we want to save it, but it’s the “world” when we’re despairing over it). Global devastation is not a new concept. It is only page 11 of my Bible when God, displeased with humanity, wipes out “everything on dry land in whose nostrils was the breath of life,” and starts over with the Creation, almost from scratch. God saves creation by having Noah pack up the minimum number of all living creatures and board them onto the ark.
This is as fine an example of worthwhile frugality as you’re likely to find. Sons and daughters of Depression-era parents clean out their parents’ houses after their deaths and dispose, in an afternoon, of a lifetime’s worth of plastic sherbet tubs, defunct department store shopping bags, and TV dinner trays, all saved for decades against a flood that never came. Their houses were their arks, shortly to have a For Sale sign in the front yard. Instead of saving, hang on to the minimum–as God did with Noah and the ark. The two kangaroos that made it onto the ark were the two most consequential kangaroos of all time. Your life is your ark, the means of your survival. What if you could keep only consequential things in it? What would you get rid of?”
I like alot about it, let alone that I am in the get rid of stuff mode.
Lovely kitten!
They like us, they really like us. Not.
Bom dia, pups
O/T but I was over at McClatchy and ran across this article,If Clinton can’t run a campaign, can she run the White House?. Yet another interesting metric by which to judge our future president (or not)
very cool. we’re minimalist but books and LP’s (mr wobbs is a house music DJ on the side) have their own room now.
I am very disturbed by the numerous trolls posting here. So sick of the crap being put out by KKKarl. Those of you with good intentions should ignore this remark. The rest, who insist on spreading BS, need to be put in your places. And FDL needs to be alert to this sham. Porn stars? Cute tigers? It’s so predictable and so stupid. No wonder I don’t read FDL much anymore, or seldom comment. The story is about ongoing fascist or Nazi activity here in the USA in 2008. And I would guess that many of the posts above are by sympathizers to those causes. Forgive me if I am wrong.