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	<title>Comments on: Our high horse</title>
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		<title>By: ncopernicus</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1408172</link>
		<dc:creator>ncopernicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1408172</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;And now, the true relationship, our nation’s true suicide pact, the perverse interpretation of the Second Amendment (because James Madison was TOTALLY in the bag for increased lethality via handguns, the man was a total &lt;strike&gt;douchebag&lt;/strike&gt; prophet&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Madison (who got the big h/t from his peers as “Father of the Constitution” and “Father of the Bill of Rights”) argued strongly for free speech, &lt;em&gt;Habeas Corpus&lt;/em&gt;, and as mentioned, the right to bear arms.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He viewed the right to bear arms first and foremost as being embedded within a tight articulation of The People, local militias and local governance, particularly as the New Republic was still commercially triangulated with Britain and France &amp; was itself internally squabbling about relative strength of the three branches of government (and States’ rights).  In particular, Madison locked horns with the Federalists, who though having ‘defected’ from Britain, still favored a strong central government of their own, “with a powerful independent Executive branch.” — Sound Familiar???  Madison was a strong advocate for checks and balances to limit special interests.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Second Amendment was intended to be a mechanism in service of such limitations, but not without&lt;br /&gt;
the vital connectivity of representation — through both militias and local governance.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What is striking is that when one thinks of militias in this modern time, what usually comes to mind are two entities — 1) law enforcement, who are not tertiary to either The People or the Government, but who are of service to the Government and comprised of The People and 2) grassroots militias, who bear something of outlaw status at the moment, comprised of The People, yet (distinctly) not articulated with the Government.&lt;br /&gt;
The fact that the functional ‘articulated’ element Madison envisioned (among The People, Militias and the Government) is &lt;em&gt;missing&lt;/em&gt; can probably be considered a correlate of the degree of lethality of arms sought, and the lobbying thereof — the ‘perversion’ of the 2nd Amendment that was mentioned.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Further, the absence of this articulated Militia link — (if only from a militia-organized information dissemination-conduit functionality) — is probably part of why our nation has fallen into this current status of ‘police state.’  Quite succinctly, very few know ‘how things work’ until the tripwires are activated.  Would it be different if the Three Branches of government interlocked with the Triple-Dynamic of the Individual, the Militia, and local governance?  Can we even conceive of how a militia would look in modern times?  Is it something like The Grassroots, only with more legs and more teeth?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It is especially in such instances that the interdependence of the Amendments (1 through 8 specifically) becomes poignant and quite evident.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Additional Reading: F&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/federal/fed46.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ederalist No. 46&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
James Madison in Federalist No. 46 wrote:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. &lt;/strong&gt;Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes.  &lt;strong&gt;But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(sorry 2b L8 2da party.&lt;br /&gt;
but I lurves me some Mad Jamminson : )&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And now, the true relationship, our nation’s true suicide pact, the perverse interpretation of the Second Amendment (because James Madison was TOTALLY in the bag for increased lethality via handguns, the man was a total <strike>douchebag</strike> prophet</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Madison (who got the big h/t from his peers as “Father of the Constitution” and “Father of the Bill of Rights”) argued strongly for free speech, <em>Habeas Corpus</em>, and as mentioned, the right to bear arms.  </p>
<p>He viewed the right to bear arms first and foremost as being embedded within a tight articulation of The People, local militias and local governance, particularly as the New Republic was still commercially triangulated with Britain and France &amp; was itself internally squabbling about relative strength of the three branches of government (and States’ rights).  In particular, Madison locked horns with the Federalists, who though having ‘defected’ from Britain, still favored a strong central government of their own, “with a powerful independent Executive branch.” — Sound Familiar???  Madison was a strong advocate for checks and balances to limit special interests.  </p>
<p>The Second Amendment was intended to be a mechanism in service of such limitations, but not without<br />
the vital connectivity of representation — through both militias and local governance.  </p>
<p>What is striking is that when one thinks of militias in this modern time, what usually comes to mind are two entities — 1) law enforcement, who are not tertiary to either The People or the Government, but who are of service to the Government and comprised of The People and 2) grassroots militias, who bear something of outlaw status at the moment, comprised of The People, yet (distinctly) not articulated with the Government.<br />
The fact that the functional ‘articulated’ element Madison envisioned (among The People, Militias and the Government) is <em>missing</em> can probably be considered a correlate of the degree of lethality of arms sought, and the lobbying thereof — the ‘perversion’ of the 2nd Amendment that was mentioned.</p>
<p>Further, the absence of this articulated Militia link — (if only from a militia-organized information dissemination-conduit functionality) — is probably part of why our nation has fallen into this current status of ‘police state.’  Quite succinctly, very few know ‘how things work’ until the tripwires are activated.  Would it be different if the Three Branches of government interlocked with the Triple-Dynamic of the Individual, the Militia, and local governance?  Can we even conceive of how a militia would look in modern times?  Is it something like The Grassroots, only with more legs and more teeth?</p>
<p>It is especially in such instances that the interdependence of the Amendments (1 through 8 specifically) becomes poignant and quite evident.</p>
<p>Additional Reading: F<a href="http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/federal/fed46.htm" rel="nofollow">ederalist No. 46</a></p>
<blockquote><p>
James Madison in Federalist No. 46 wrote:</p>
<p><strong>Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. </strong>Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes.  <strong>But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it.</strong></p>
</blockquote>
<p>(sorry 2b L8 2da party.<br />
but I lurves me some Mad Jamminson : )</p>
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		<title>By: DWBartoo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1407916</link>
		<dc:creator>DWBartoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1407916</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well said, and funny, but I do think reality is dawning, however slowly, more thoughtful conversations with people, every day, suggest that some ‘news’ is getting through, people HAVE noticed, they just need a clear vision of what they would, already, like to see … people sense it in their ‘bones’, it just hasn’t ‘trickled up’, yet.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, and funny, but I do think reality is dawning, however slowly, more thoughtful conversations with people, every day, suggest that some ‘news’ is getting through, people HAVE noticed, they just need a clear vision of what they would, already, like to see … people sense it in their ‘bones’, it just hasn’t ‘trickled up’, yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Demosthenes</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1407874</link>
		<dc:creator>Demosthenes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1407874</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The last two elections were about tribal instinct. Me vote for alpha male. This one is just about plain stupidity. Joe Scary and Pat Butch on MSNBC was shoving out Repub cowpies to the gullible masses as “facts”. Obama isn’t electable. McCain is a “maverick”. Harold Ford was trying to flip it on them but they are will trained. They know people take as truth whatever “impartial” newsies say.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The last two elections were about tribal instinct. Me vote for alpha male. This one is just about plain stupidity. Joe Scary and Pat Butch on MSNBC was shoving out Repub cowpies to the gullible masses as “facts”. Obama isn’t electable. McCain is a “maverick”. Harold Ford was trying to flip it on them but they are will trained. They know people take as truth whatever “impartial” newsies say.</p>
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		<title>By: DWBartoo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1407823</link>
		<dc:creator>DWBartoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1407823</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;‘timing’  (synapse, oh synapse! where are yoooou? Come here, good synapse …)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>‘timing’  (synapse, oh synapse! where are yoooou? Come here, good synapse …)</p>
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		<title>By: DWBartoo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1407820</link>
		<dc:creator>DWBartoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1407820</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Actually, Demosthenes, I think reality is slowly growing on us …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Its just a question of ‘timimg’.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Demosthenes, I think reality is slowly growing on us …</p>
<p>Its just a question of ‘timimg’.</p>
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		<title>By: Demosthenes</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1407801</link>
		<dc:creator>Demosthenes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1407801</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sorry for being OT but I have to vent.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You smell the desperation in the air? There’s an old guy sensing his mortality and running to justify his life. There’s an old lady after years of humiliation running to justify her pain. We’re here trying to run away from the ruin we’re in for.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for being OT but I have to vent.</p>
<p>You smell the desperation in the air? There’s an old guy sensing his mortality and running to justify his life. There’s an old lady after years of humiliation running to justify her pain. We’re here trying to run away from the ruin we’re in for.</p>
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		<title>By: RevBev</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1407781</link>
		<dc:creator>RevBev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1407781</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sorry,  Ive never known he could talk…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry,  Ive never known he could talk…</p>
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		<title>By: DWBartoo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1407758</link>
		<dc:creator>DWBartoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1407758</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That’s the way to do it, dmac.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A BIG good on you!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And good on people for waking up and standing up.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Optimism in the air …&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That’s the way to do it, dmac.</p>
<p>A BIG good on you!</p>
<p>And good on people for waking up and standing up.</p>
<p>Optimism in the air …</p>
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		<title>By: Peterr</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1407743</link>
		<dc:creator>Peterr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1407743</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“Just tell ‘em ‘dmac’ sent you.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Has a nice ring to it, dontcha think?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Congrats!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Just tell ‘em ‘dmac’ sent you.”</p>
<p>Has a nice ring to it, dontcha think?</p>
<p>Congrats!</p>
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		<title>By: angie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1407741</link>
		<dc:creator>angie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/24/our-high-horse/#comment-1407741</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;And I still believe that the abuse of prisoners in Iraq etc. has some of its roots in the American prison industry.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;you betcha!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
Shining City on the Hill, Land of the Free, Home of the Non-competitive Bid and all that patriotic mumbo-jumbo!&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;you write so very well– thank you.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And I still believe that the abuse of prisoners in Iraq etc. has some of its roots in the American prison industry.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>you betcha!</p>
<blockquote><p>
Shining City on the Hill, Land of the Free, Home of the Non-competitive Bid and all that patriotic mumbo-jumbo!</p>
</blockquote>
<p>you write so very well– thank you.</p>
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