One of the right’s favorite ways of characterizing the state of racial relations in recent years has been to proclaim that for the most part, racism is a dead letter, an anachronism, a quaint artifact of dusty history mostly relegated to a few dark fringish corners. Dinesh D’Souza even wrote a wingnut-welfare book about it titled The End of Racism. And then there was the time Tony Snow proclaimed: "Here’s the unmentionable secret: Racism isn’t that big a deal any more. No sensible person supports it. Nobody of importance preaches it. It’s rapidly becoming an ugly memory."
Liberals, of course, have snorted at such nonsense, with good cause: You only need to have tuned in to any of the past couple years’ worth of Republican fulminations about immigration to know what a load of crap that is. Of course, they deny with vigorous red faces that racism has any part of it, but then we listen to their spokesmen — from Pat Buchanan to Douglas Bruce — and it’s not hard to figure out that this is just so much hot air. For that matter, we only need to turn to some of their dog-whistle fulminations about Obama and their post-Katrina speculations about black people and in general, the way they talk about race, to figure out that the GOP is the main refuge of the lingering racist element in American society. But then, we’ve known that since the advent of the Southern Strategy.
But before Democrats start feeling smug about that — and the fact that one of their two major candidates is African American — they better take a hard look within their ranks as well. Because, as Greg Mitchell reports, the election results from Pennsylvania indicate that there’s a problem with race for many Democrats, too:
Long before that, I had suggested that many understate the number of older Democrats who are (still) racist and who would tip many contests to Clinton. But I closed yesterday’s post by saying that if Obama won or came close in Pennsylvania that might put the issue to rest.
Didn’t happen. And the exit polls show, again, that one in four Clinton voters claim they would not vote for Obama in November — for whatever reason. And she got 70% of the white, blue-collar vote in most regions, including the area of central Pennsylvania where I spent a lot of time growing up and heard many a racist remark.
Here’s the money quote from a New York Times analysis of the exit polls: "Sixteen percent of white voters said race mattered in deciding who they voted for, and just 54 percent of those voters said they would support Mr. Obama in a general election; 27 percent of them said they would vote for Mr. McCain if Mr. Obama was the Democratic nominee, and 16 percent said they would not vote at all."
This is largely the same trend Paul Lukasiak uncovered when looking at national data and voting trends so far in these races. Democrats may want to believe, like Republicans, that the racism thing doesn’t matter anymore, that the post-Civil Rights era has finally enabled us to move beyond race. But it’s clear that that ain’t so.
A lot of why this trend is manifesting itself has to do with a kind of willful blindness about race that’s pervaded American society since the Civil Rights era. The truth is, we’ve let the legislative advances of that era, and the body of anti-discrimination laws that came out of it, stand as a kind of proxy for the cultural, economic, and broader social changes that need to occur alongside — but if we look at them honestly, they haven’t.
A recent Atlantic piece by Ta-Nehisi Coates about Bill Cosby’s conservative approach to race observed that his concerns were remarkably like those of earlier black reformers:
Cosby’s, and much of black America’s, conservative analysis flattens history and smooths over the wrinkles that have characterized black America since its inception … Indeed, a century ago, the black brain trust was pushing the same rhetoric that Cosby is pushing today. It was concerned that slavery had essentially destroyed the black family and was obsessed with seemingly the same issues—crime, wanton sexuality, and general moral turpitude—that Cosby claims are recent developments …
In particular, Cosby’s argument—that much of what haunts young black men originates in post-segregation black culture—doesn’t square with history. As early as the 1930s, sociologists were concerned that black men were falling behind black women. In his classic study, The Negro Family in the United States, published in 1939, E. Franklin Frazier argued that urbanization was undermining the ability of men to provide for their families. In 1965—at the height of the civil-rights movement—Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s milestone report, “The Negro Family: The Case for National Action,” picked up the same theme.
At times, Cosby seems willfully blind to the parallels between his arguments and those made in the presumably glorious past. Consider his problems with rap. How could an avowed jazz fanatic be oblivious to the similar plaints once sparked by the music of his youth?
To which Russ Douthat responded:
The fact that prior generations of intellectuals fretted, Cosby-style, about African-American crime rates, family structure, and so on doesn’t change the fact that those problems have grown much, much worse in the interim. And the fact that some moralistic crusades are foolish and misguided doesn’t mean that all of them are. The anti-jazz crusaders confused the music with the venues where it played, but that doesn’t mean that they were wrong to inveigh against alcoholism and gambling, and the fact that fifty years later jazz has become easy-listening music for the haute-bourgeoisie doesn’t mean the same thing will happen – or should happen, more importantly – to this kind of thing.
But the anti-jazz crusaders weren’t simply opposed to alcoholism and gambling, though as with the KKK, waving those particular bloody shirts gave them plenty to rail about regarding their larger objective: suppression of racial minorities. There was a reason the racists called it "jungle music," and a reason that the Nazis tried to outlaw jazz. Because there was a profoundly racial component of the anti-jazz crusades, which despite all their diversionary rhetoric were in fact focused on "defending white culture" — that is, keeping black culture in check:
[A]t the time, people believed that jazz was the forerunner of the decline of Western civilization. The anti-jazz crusade was motivated by an apocalyptic fear. The anxiety that jazz was "endangering our civilization," as the populist William Jennings Bryant put it in the New York Times in May 1926, was the subtext to many of the voices. People felt, in other words, that the dawn of the Jazz Age heralded the decline of Western Civilization. An assessment in the New York Times pronounced: "The consensus of opinion of leading medical and other scientific authorities, [is that jazz] is harmful and degrading to the civilized races as it always has been among the savages from whom we borrowed it."
Besides papering over historical reality, all of these observers — Cosby, Coates, and Douthat alike (not to mention Steve Sailer, who waded into Douthat’s thread to explain that this is all because of genetically wired-in cultural traits regarding fatherhood in Africa) — similarly refuse to confront the persistent reality: While segregation and Jim Crow have been outlawed, and residential and employment discrimination officially banned, the underlying causes of the century-ago black activists’ angst have not substantially diminished, especially residential segregation, continuing job discrimination, and general equality of opportunity.
Sure, we passed anti-segregation laws, but that doesn’t mean we’ve achieved actual desegregation. We talk high-mindedly about color-blindness, but stereotypes and broad prejudices about racial characteristics persist at all levels of society. If we want to talk about the festering persistence of crime and poverty among blacks, this is where we need to begin looking. But we never do.
In his book Sundown Towns: A Hidden Dimension of American Racism, James Loewen explored the broad economic and cultural ramifications of the history of towns across America, most of them outside the South, that outlawed the presence of black people after sundown. There were literally thousands of them, most in the Midwest and West but in fact in every corner of the country. And the legacy of residential segregation they created — and which Americans have never come close to confronting — persists well into this century:
[T]he talk in sundown towns brims with amazing stereotypes about African Americans, put forth confidently with nary an African American in their lives. The ideology intrinsic to sundown towns — that African Americans … are the problem — prompts their residents to believe and pass on all kinds of negative generalizations as fact. They are the problem because they choose segregation — even though "they" don’t, as we have seen. Or they are the problem owing to their criminality — confirmed by the stereotype — misbehavior that "we" avoid by excluding or moving away from them.
Of course, such stereotypes are hardly limited to sundown towns. Summarizing a nationwide 1991 poll, Lynne Duke found that a majority of whites believed that "blacks and Hispanics are likely to prefer welfare to hard work and tend to be lazier than whites, more prone to violence, less intelligent, and less patriotic." Even worse, in sundown towns and suburbs, statements such as these usually evoke no open disagreement at all. Because most listeners in sundown towns have never lived near African Americans, they have no experiential foundation from which to question the negative generalities that they hear voiced. So the stereotypes usually go unchallenged: blacks are less intelligent, lazier, and lack drive, and that’s why they haven’t built successful careers. [pp. 320-321]
Sundown towns and their continuing legacy have also had a profound psychological impact on blacks, including the internalization of low expectations, and the exclusion of blacks from cultural capital [pp. 353-355]:
Confining most African Americans to the opposite of sundown suburbs — majority black, inner-city neighborhoods — also restricts their access to what Patterson calls cultural capital: "those learned patterns of mutual trust, insider knowledge about how things really work, encounter rituals, and social sensibilities that constitute the language of power and success." …
Making the suburbs unreachable for nonwhites similarly restricts them from making the social connections that are critical to forming networks that help us find work and move ahead in the workforce. Loewen notes that "the trouble is, these networks are segregated, so important information never reaches black America. … Sundown suburbanites know only whites, by definition, except perhaps a few work contacts. Thus sundown suburbs contribute to economic inequality by race."
As I observed earlier:
Most often, we like to overemphasize the progress that has been made racially since the Civil Rights era — while the reality is that the majority of our accomplishment has been more in the legal arena than in the larger societal one, and the bulk of it has been a result of a small handful of laws passed over a brief period in the 1960s: the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and the Fair Housing Act of 1968. Subsequent efforts to create a color-blind society, such as affirmative action and busing, have been muted in the years following by efforts to do away with them.
At the same time, very little has been done to tackle the larger problem of structuralized, institutional racism, created by decades of prejudice that created a segregated society divided into largely white suburbs and rural areas, while nonwhites remain clustered in inner cities, and the resulting segregation by class and power, economic and political.
Indeed, we seem to remain obdurately ignorant of the nature of these issues. What happens more often than not is that we reflexively fall back to old attitudes: The "problem," as we see it, must be with those nonwhites themselves. After all, the thinking goes, slavery ended in 1865, and we did away with Jim Crow and officially sanctioned prejudice in the 1960s. If blacks still fail to advance, it must be something wrong with them. If they fail to move up and into the suburbs, it must be their fault.
Too many white voters, especially in rural and suburban precincts, on both sides of the partisan aisle have absorbed these attitudes. Too many of them continue to believe that a black man, no matter how well educated, will ever have "the stuff" it takes to be president. And that’s why we’ve seen the racial voting trends in Democratic primaries that we have.
It’s not an insurmountable problem for Democrats, should Obama indeed be their nominee. But neither is it one they can hope to paper over and still win in November.
Related posts:
- Can white liberals keep their eye on the prize when racism comes a knockin?
- Louisiana Justice of the Peace Keith Bardwell Tries to Justify His Racism
- Early Morning Swim: KO Documents Racist Attacks on Obama
- Conservative Blogger Rick Moran Calls on the Right to Condemn “Crazies”, Sees Racism in Attacks on Obama
- A Brief History of Communism, from Race Mixing to the Public Option





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DEZ is here
Good post. Needs to be discussed.
so then what is the solution?
Where’s Lucy?
One way to add focus to the issue is to ask “Can Obama win Ohio and Pennsylvania against McCain- or are there too many whites who will refuse to vote for a black….The answer to that question is far from obvious.
We have to do everything we can to get the youngsters out to vote. Hopefully, Obama will be able to inspire them in November as he has in the primary…
Pardon my ignorance, but what is a sundown town?
I don’t think there’s a simple solution to a complex problem. But Democrats need to begin finding ways to talk about race in a way that works at addressing the real stagnancy we’ve had in advancing race relations, especially in providing real opportunities for blacks — opportunities that exist outside of government inducements. And yet you have to find a way to do it that, instead of blaming whites or attacking them for their failures, calls upon what Lincoln called “the better angels of our nature.”
That would be a neat trick. How do we do it? I’m not someone claiming to have the answers. But we’re never going to find them if we pretend the problem isn’t there.
I have a friend who is a college grad, enlisted man in the infantry and Iraq vet. He says his military experience has made him less tolerant and more racist. I think it is a major leap to assume the “youngsters” are going to be any better than the rest of us.
Yes, we’ve got to increase turnout to take this problem on. Also remember that independent voters could not vote in PA yesterday.
Thank you David. We need to be talking about race.
Click the link, there were many in Southern Illinois into the 50’s.
Blacks were not allowed to be in the town after sundown, or they’d be shot.
From Maine to California, thousands of communities kept out African Americans (or sometimes Chinese Americans, Jewish Americans, etc.) by force, law, or custom. These communities are sometimes called “sundown towns” because some of them posted signs at their city limits reading, typically, “, Don’t Let The Sun Go Down On You In ___.”
Racism is alive and well and…almost becoming “fashionable”…It starts when you allow little slurs and codes to get by…and then it festers…and it emboldens and then you end up with what happened in Germany and what is happening in the M.E.
Every covert racial slur needs to be smacked down now…It’s not okay to go on and on with it in the MSM news…ala Scarborough and Buchanan without holding them accountable…in the guise that it is okay, because of Rev. Wright and what he said…or because it’s just politics. They are both blatantly racist, and the networks that keep them talking are racist too. Racism is insidious and needs to be rejected and denounced at every chance. It is no different than antisemitism. It needs to be denounced.
Spit.
Here’s Loewen’s book.
Here’s something I wrote about it.
Towns where minorities (or strangers in general) are told, “You’d better not be around after sundown or…”
AKA White flight (from older districts of inner cities).
When I lived in Colorado in the early 80’s…I was told that there was such an “unwritten” law in Loveland, Colorado.
OH no here we go again…..it’s the white racists fault that Obama didn’t win. This is such a load of crap.Maybe they think he is to young…maybe they were offended by his Bitter remarks…maybe they don’t like a Minister who was held up as his mentor calling on God to Damn America….maybe they don’t like his wife saying she has never been proud of America until her husband got some recognition….maybe they didn’t like him not putting his hand over his heart during the national anthem.(Remember some of these “Whites” fought for their country and saw some of their friends die for this country…maybe they don’t like him hanging around with a radical leftist who proclaims he didn’t blow up enough things in the 60’s…..no they didn’t take any of this into account they just didn’t vote for him because ..TA DA HE IS BLACK…Now that is not to say that some didn’t vote for him because he is black but I think thou doest protest to much sir!
I think she is back stage /s
I assume we are not feeding?
If you’ll read the post, you’ll see that no one’s claiming it’s the white racists’ fault that Obama lost. But when one out of four Clinton voters, nearly all of them white, says they won’t vote for Obama regardless, there’s a problem.
That is not what this is about. The fact is that Obama’s candidacy has brought out blatant racism. It’s not about whether he wins or not. If he was “white” (i.e., having not an ounce of black blood…by racist standards…when in fact, he is 1/2 white and 1/2 black but is called “black” because of the color of his skin!!!!) Start right there. No one says…McCain…the “white” candidate…
America has a great deal of racism. Deal with it.
I fought for my country and saw African Americans systematically fucked over by racist cracker NCO’s and a draft that let white college students skate. Take that weak shit somewhere else.
I fed. I just fed the nags…so I’m in a feeding mode. Pissed me off.
thank you for trhis post!! thats the undercurrent lurking in the dem underground imo….. we heard soo much of the blue collar workers as if african-americans are not blue collar wworkers…. but these are reagan dems mostly and again in my opinion they’re not going to vote for obama jus sayin ;o)
I guess we are!
You are right there may be a problem they may have beliefs that are different from his and they won’t vote for him because of them, not becasue they are racist…again some maybe.. but this is a very sweeping statement. Obama tried to taint the citizens of New Hampshire in the same way…We didnt’ win…It’s the racists fault but if he wins,…My what enlightend people….
About 15 years ago several of us spoke with a woman whose husband had died and left her an accounting business. She was selling the business, but was being selective about who she sold it to. She had a full price offer, but wouldn’t sell because the buyer was ITALIAN. I looked around the table for someone with their eyes crossed, but everyone was on board with her.
I thought we quit being mad at Italians about 100 years ago. BTW, if this happened now, I’d report her.
LOL
I have a sweeping statement for you.
I would suggest the possibility that some of these “reasons” would not be salient if he were white.
For example, I don’t see Hillary Clinton wearing a flag lapel pin (even though she often wears suits), and I haven’t heard her receive any flak about that…
Sir.
Please back away from that keyboard and take twenty deep breaths.
It is not worth the temporary feeling of momentary satisfaction.
Right.
I wasn’t fast enough to say there probably wasn’t much to be gained by it.
But since I’m so slow on the draw tonight…
It is not weak shit it is the truth many have fought and died for this country from many backrounds not just whites I was only speking of the supposed “White Racists” aleeged in this article in Pennsylvania who may have a problem with a candidate for President not respecting the national anthem by putting his hand over his heart. You don’t win the vote of midlle Pensylvania by being “Cool”!
Ahh I said nothing about wearing a flag lapel.
Waitaminute! I thought sexism was a much bigger problem than racism. Used to hear that a lot.
I need charts and plots. Stat!
Report her for what…? Not selling her company to whoever she wanted to? You don’t have to sell anything to anybody if you don’t want to and you can sell a business to anybody that you wnat to.
Oh, and what makes Obama “cool” in your estimation and Clinton (you seem to imply) not “cool”—the fact that he is black?
Bullseye.
David thanks very much for the post.
It’s an incredibly difficult topic to verbalize. 100% European Americans simply don’t have to deal with their ethnicity as a predicate of their existence.
There is racism…and there is just downright ignorance. Eat that….
Thanks for addressing this, David. Obama did very well with this issue early on… until his campaign minions jumped into the fray..and Clinton (especially Bill) continuously digs for new lows in right-wing radio world..
I really think the best way for Dems to handle divisive racism is through class / income issues. Also I have had some success in conversations with Arkansas rednecks by pointing out as long as the rich man /employer can yank their prejudices, they will be divided and treated as such.
Go tell your mom she’s callin you.
Obama chose to be more alligned with a African American culture. Now of course in America he may have not had much choice but if you read his book he seems to have made a decision to be identified as black not mixed which is fine…
So…is Obama black or white???? He is just as much a white candidate as a black candidate. That is an undeniable fact.
“Sundown Towns. . . that outlawed the presence of black people after sundown.”
Can this be literally true, or is it some sort of de facto situation that is not explicit, but has the same effect? Or did I miss the explanation? What was the date of these “sundown towns”?
Bob in HI
Facts, that’s sure to change a lot of minds.
Click the link bro. I has the n word so it’s not posted.
Equal opportunity.
Wickeroo
community in the United States where non-whites — especially African Americans — were systematically excluded from living in or passing through after the sun went down. This allowed maids and workmen to provide unskilled labor during the day. They came into existence in the late 19th century during what sociologists have described as the nadir of American race relations. Sundown towns existed throughout the nation, but more often were located in the northern states that were not pre-Civil War slave states. There have not been any de jure sundown towns in the country since the legislation in the 1960s inspired by the American Civil Rights Movement, though de facto sundown towns existed at least into the 1970s. Their continued existence is the subject of some debate.
see ya’ll, good luck with goober
Later, Raven.
My my my first you suggest we have a discusion about race and then the insults fly…by the way my mother is dead.
I don’t think I’d heard the “less patriotic” stereotype before, David. Curious, isn’t it, that conservatives are eager to present “the heartland” as more patriotic because of the questionable assertion that most of our troops come from there, but African Americans can be stereotyped as “less patriotic” despite the fact that a much higher percentage of them serve in the armed forces.
Thank you David for this post.
Racism/classism/anti-brownism/Islamaphobia/misogyny are all alive and well in this country and beyond.
We need to deal with it.
Thanks for the link to your review. Very interesting – I will go back later and read the rest of the series.
He’s not “mixed”…He is half white and half black. He has dark skin….and in our society, if you have dark skin because one of your parents is of African descent…you are automatically pegged as “black”. The whole way of thinking is frikkin’ nuts. He cannot claim to be “white”…that is the racism aspect. Identifying people by the color of their skin. In our society, if you are half black…you are black….that is the racism. Geez…
Enlightened people know that you are who you are, and it has zero to do with the color of your skin. Go study something.
david – what trend of paul’s are you referring to?
Did you read his book? Did you “buy” his book and read it?
My my “Raven” are you trying to insult me because of my race…presuming you know what my race is!
Bushsucks12, who qualifies as “white?” Are Jessica Alba and Halle Berry “white?” What about Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, and Joe Torre? Do they qualify? If there’s a disagreement about who is “white,” is there someone we can ask?
Especially plots.
*wink*
Exactly, ES.
Tweety [yes, he’s off my earned-my-respect list] danced all round the edges of “White Catholics” and their “conservative social values” voting tonight. Clinton’s pro-choice, her husband’s…what he is, and yet the “White Catholic” vote, according to Tweety went for Clinton.
Let’s just put it out in the open: bigotry, fear, preyed and played upon by the cynical corporatists.
Clinton’s using the “Southern Strategy” of the race card. She may tell herself she’s channeling Eleanor Roosevelt in her quest, but her tactics say “Strom.” Willful deniability indeed.
How did Obama choose this?
At the link I included there, Paul discussed specifically how racism was more of a consistent mover of voter behavior than sexism. I think Paul concluded that this affected Obama’s electability, but I don’t necessarily agree with that. I just think it reveals a factor that has to be confronted.
I also think a lot of disparity will dissolve when health care and much more equal access to higher education is enabled for all. Bigotry is about about class protection and ignorant fear.. And the younger generation is much less prone to ignoring or accepting it. I really don’t think middle aged and older crowd will change their mind/fears.
I do think the popularity of charter schools will slow progress or even reverse it among the young.
completely agree. i don’t think this can be said too often.
i’ve seen it in my own family – people who 10 years ago would never say what they now say. and people who 10 years ago would be offended to hear it, don’t care.
we have to speak up every time.
Agree.
Biden pushed the envelope with his “clean and articulate” comment.
JoLie pushed it further by asking, “are you a Bill Clinton Democrat or a Jesse Jackson Democrat?”
I think current poll results that show lots of Democratic voters who say “I’ll vote for McCain if my choice isn’t the nominee” are bullshit. Regardless of the race of the respondent, people are fired up about their candidate right now; we are in the midst of a hard-fought campaign between two terrific candidates whose partisans are extremely, um, partisan.
My preferred candidate dropped out some time ago, and I’m still not entirely comfortable with my remaining two choices. So I think we shouldn’t read a lot into the media-driven conflict narrative (”dems in disarray”) that these polls seems to indicate. Many Democrats will come around when they realize the tremendous stakes in the 2008 election. Our job is to communicate these stakes effectively to voters who feel disaffected because their candidate did not win the nomination, or because the eventual nominee does not look like them.
That said, racism is alive and well in America. I hope it doesn’t affect our election this fall. But it probably will.
I agree with you I dont’ have to study anything it is Obam who is holding himslef out as the possible “First Black Nominee for Presidnet” not me. My issues with Obama have nothing to do with his race. I don’t think he is the best person for the job at this time. In time he maybe and then I might vote for him but not now not at this time…it seems to me you are the one who is more caught up in the Race thing. I just dont’ think he is the person we need to take our country through the next few years with all that is going on..he is not tested he has not really been in Washinton that long and some may say that is a good thing I don’t beleive that, it buys into the “Government is the Problem” scenario that so many Republicans have said for so many years. I think government is a viable entity that can be used to make life better for a lot of people and I don’t think that Obama has the experience to do that ..YET!
I don’t know ask them!
Oh and the whole patriot thingy with your hand over your heart and lapel pin is just this:
I’ll do it again (with goosebumps and pride and tears) when the people of this nation stand up for the Constitution and not one minute before.
Europeans have a history of overcoming these prejudices. Irish and English hated each other for centuries. English and the French hated each other. The Germans and French hated each other. Italians and semitic peoples were also shut out of the European American club for decades.
amen!
the problem, i think, is that very few pols will go there – because it pisses off a good portion of their donor base and all of the MSM.
So if Obama wins the nomination you’ll vote for McCain?
At the end of In the Valley of Elah, Tommy Lee Jones’ character hangs the flag upside down. The universal distress signal.
Is America in distress? Is that patriotic? Would it be patriotic if Denzel Washington had played that role instead?
It’s relevant that during the recent Dem “debate” that one of the “questions” came from someone who obviously has an ax to grind against Obama. As became clear when various sites looked into her history of saying/ implying that Obama was not a patriot. Somehow (!) he was made to defend the fact that he wasn’t wearing a flag pin. Uh, neither Hillary nor Gibson nor Stepanopoulous were wearing a flag pin either. And, I have yet to find a pic of McCain wearing a flag pin. He certainly didn’t do so during any of the Repug debates.
The great flag pin flap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXoynG22qfE
You’re the one throwing out the term “white.”
So, if Obama asserts that he is “white,” does that mean he is?
Don’t know what it takes to win the “white vote” in PA.
But I’ll never forget the day when – as VP of my med school class (in the 19 the floor boardroom of Hahnemann Medical College; Broad and Vine, Philadelphia, PA), the Student National Medical Association (AA med student assn) came to ask Hahnemann’s med school student govt for the same funds we gave to any other med student organization.
[Thanks to a monopoly on the Friday beer parties and the video games in the student lounge, the med school student govt was rakin in the bucks.]
What did Ray the 83-84 med school student body president say just before the SNMA rep came in the room?
“Let’s see what what the niggers want”
None of the PA natives batted an eye. They didn’t even get when the CA/NY folks in the room jumped down their throats.
[That’s the moment we Californians…almost one-quarter of the med school student body {no, not the dissecatble bodies}…resolved to take over the damn place next year. And we did - got my self-avowedly dikey friend Cindy Daly elected to clean the sewer out.]
I don’t agree with the Clintonistas on much –
especially after the Denny clinic where I was sole MD among the medics treating the folks going into seizures and delirium…
after Bill and his SS decided to play King of WTO and have 60,000 people gassed with chemical weapons in Seattle.
[Nothing like seeing law enforcement and National Guard bracket your street medic station with rounds of chemical weapons - and watch them “walk in” the trajectories on you and the casualties your’re treating - to lead to a wee bit ‘o alienation.]
But I still agree with Carville’s take:
“Pennsylvania: Philadelphia at one end, Pittsburgh at one end – and Alabama in the middle”.
Pennsylvania: Most racist place I’ve ever been – and that includes white LA enclaves in SoCal.
N.B. Of course, that doesn’t mean everyone in the state of PA (especially the progressives who contribute here).
In times of scarce resources and lack of jobs, those divisions grow greater. Probably why it’s getting more “mainstreamed” here as our economy worsens.
San Marino, California – well into the late 60’s.
Good girlio. You’ve got me wondering…Obama is a Constitutional lawyer….and he seems to respect the Constitution.
He most certainly is half white.
Okay.
Doesn’t that all come down to what and how America defines “black” and the connotations and limitations attached to that? You can’t pretend that racism is not a factor…it is. The media spends 24/7 pointing out the color of his skin (that is my point).
Your stated reservations of his qualifications to be president are and should be the same, whether he is labeled by society as black or white or green; and are perfectly valid.
Denzel already did that in another way in his great movie “Glory”.
we’re still in distress.
I think Bushsucks12 is a GOP troll posing as an old-time blue collar Democrat.
I’m convinced.
I want a Constitutional scholar to lead us out of the morass.
And I don’t think s/he thinks Bush sucks.
I can almost hear his best speech ever coming!
Boo Radley would know…*g*
Yes.
well, i disagree that the data said that. but let’s accept it for the moment. i don’t think what you describe is “largely the same trend” as what you quote from mitchell:
[sniff…sniff…sniff] I smell troll.
That qualification needs to be expanded….
Hey, Bushsucks…you payin’ attention?
Exactly.
Just talking with another “bitter” Obama supporter…we agreed the media spinning make us bitter…and while we won’t vote for McCain, and we loathe the Hillary tactics, there’s another option many are not talking about and that’s sitting down. Will this become a factor if the racecard/baiting continues?
Oh, and on this I can agree with Matthews: the media are makin’ shit up to continue the horserace, no matter how destructive it is to solving this country’s problems. But then enabling this, why should it surprise us from BushCo embeds?
I think it was Robert Duvall’s debut.
the GOP is the main refuge of the lingering racist element in American society. But then, we’ve known that since the advent of the Southern Strategy.
It has been passed down from parent to child for generations. Ignorance and stupidity. No ability to teach a child that it’s the content of ones character and not the color of their skin that matters. This country has serious problems and we need an individual who can solve them. The color of their skin is completely a non issue.
no yoo. please.
This really is all so fantastic!
The overt and most importantly covert racism in America is coming to the fore. This needed to happen for us to move forward as a country. I’m thrilled to see it happening.
Obama knows this very well. He has shown an incredible understanding of all these dynamics, and is masterfully addressing these issues and making America look deep within itself. Some aren’t liking what they’re seeing, but this is necessary nonetheless.
Of course Obama has understood from the beginning that he won’t get a certain percent of the vote because of his skin pigmentation. Duh. He’s shattering every single metric for support in a primary season. He’ll be fine…
…once he can focus his communications in on one person, rather than fighting off several people attacking him from all sorts of angles, including people who are supposedly “on his side.” Truly remarkable how well he has done with these dynamics so far. Quite breathtaking to think what he’s accomplished.
One of the greatest movies/books ever.
(thank you Harper Lee)
BTW, I want to be crystal clear…I am not advocating any candidate…I’m just addressing what I, personally, perceive to be misperceptions spread by the racist media. Just sayin’.
I will vote for anybody to stop more Bushco…
Don’t know….not likely but I will not vote for Obama, in the state I come from it wont’ really matter anyway but I will be able to say I didn’t vote for him when things get really messed up.
Was Raven calling me a Goober….that’s not nice unless of course you can get along with others who happen to be goobers….remember when Obama was talking about that farmer in Iowa who came up to him in overalls and Obama thought he was going to ask him a question about Corn prices and instead he asked him about the conflict in an African country….hey was Obama being judgemental…I can’t beleive it not Obama ws he seeing that guy as a “Typical White person”?
Look the cats out of the bag folks if Obama wins the nomination, and I think he will becasue the DNC would be to scared of loosing the black vote or a large percentage if Obama is not annoited at this time which would insure a McCain win so they really can’t afford to not give it to Obama at this point sort of like blackmail but any way…you can be sure that during the general election campaign all of the things that have emereged about Obama not just his association with Rev Wright but the other issues as well are going to be exploited by the Repubs..that is the way the process works always has always will and though we would all like to apeal to our higher selves and hope that others would do the same it won’t work that way….we have come light years form the fifties and sixties in terms of race realtions in this country are they perfect no but many people still have their beliefs for whatever reasons passed on from generation the insult muttered who nows why….I know this my grandfather was probably a racist but he didn’t think of himslef that way it was the way he was taught…My father was not a racist but he lived in world that was…I hope in some small way I have enlighted my children and by the way they want Obama to win, so I feel I have done my job in that regard..the next generation that I am responsible for the next generation that I have the responsibility to educate and support has never heard me say one unkind thing about another human being becasue of their race…I never use a slur against another human being I try to be fair and teach them well.
An unfortunately realistic edit.
Besides do any of you think that a progressive woul;d have anything to do with the BUSH name??? Not any self respecting progressive that I know of… Gotta be a troll… maybe it is W hisself OMG…
I agree.
I don’t know I don’t think about it.
I suspect the discussion between Bushsuck12 and Raven are examples of the reason a percentage of Clinton supporters state they won’t vote for Obama. It was made quite clear to me at my county’s democratic convention Saturday that the Clinton supporters feel that they are being accused of racism, because they don’t like Obama over Clinton. No one, and we are a pretty white county, gave any indication of racism. Doesn’t mean it isn’t there, I do know it is quite real.
Has it every occurred to some of you that maybe Clinton supporters feel that she will fight harder than Obama and they consider that the paramount trait for whom they vote for. That fact was quite clear at the convention also.
After leading the selection process for the Clinton supporters going to the next level, I worked darn to try and convince a woman that said she wouldn’t vote for Obama that if he was the nominee, to consider voting for him for the good of our nation. I spent 15 minutes at least talking about, even if you don’t like him, the difference between him and McCain were to stark. I left thinking that just maybe she would consider it. But, posting that folks that don’t support him are racist is NOT the way to ensure he wins in November. Good God folks, keep your eye on the ball and it is November and a win then!
i’m truly not tryin’ to start anything, this isn’t a clinton obama question….knock the names out, it’s a woman black man question—-i truly want to know this, and noone can tell me.
i just have wondered for a long time, how many white obama voters won’t vote for a woman?
how many black obama voters won’t vote for a woman?
(and i don’t mean vote for clinton, i mean woman, same as these other polls don’t say obama, they say black man, i’m talkin’ woman/black man so don’t try to turn my question around)
i don’t see that talked about in the polling anywhere, and it’s kinda irkin’ me off.
i’m askin’ because it is something happening here. lotsa older men call in to the radio station here, they’ll vote for obama or mccain, but not clinton….
and i know some of the reasons for people are not that’s she’s a woman, i know that. but there are quite a few because she’s a woman, cuz they said so.
i want the numbers on the ones that won’t vote for her because she’s a woman, where the hell are those numbers?
they’ve been missing from the info that’s released.
they can tell me a guy who drinks 2.1 beers on friday and works at a non-union plant and drives a ford and picks his nose while watching paint peel won’t vote for a black man, but they can’t tell me, in general, how many won’t vote for a woman?
i wanna know both sides of the numbers.
One of the interesting dimensions of the race discussion is that light-skinned “Blacks” may not be considered as “Blacks” by some White folk, but they are aware of being considered as “Blacks” by others. For example, I was surprised to discover that Lorita Doan (she of the Congressional hearings fame) and the woman who used to sub for KO considered themselves as “Black”, even though that would not have occurred to me. I know of “White” beach bums with a darker tan (George Hamilton IV?). Clearly, “color” is not really the issue.
Obama began his campaign trying to transcend identity politics. I think that Hillary’s campaign decided that, strategically, they could beat him by tagging him as “the Black candidate,” and scaring fearful white folks away. To some extent, they have succeeded, and have made it difficult for Obama to rise above “identity politics.” I hope he succeeds in playing that theme, however, because it is exactly what America needs.
Bob in HI
Yoo is a lawyer in name only and the Constitution and our founding fathers glare down at him every night as Yoo snuggles up with his tissues and wet nappies whilst hiding under his bed.
What more qualified person than HRC, coming from the Chicago burbs and
the “yankee” racism still rampant there, to rip the scab off the old
wound for personal gain in equally bigoted “working class” (Catholic)
Pennsylvania. I live in Texas and have southern roots, but the racism
of the north has never been confronted since the riots of the mid to
late 1960’s. Reagan came in with his hollywood jim crow snicker and
it all went under the rug or the popemobile, whichever was convenient,
and is always available for the political types to call up when they
need some votes. HRC was raised by a bigot in the midst of bogots, lives
with walking contradiction and gets payback by feeding a monumental ego
trip that makes her attractive to the angry ones out there… her daddy
trained her for it, get mad and get even no matter what the cost. That
seems to be the way she wants it, so that is how it will be… too bad
that the political life of this troubled country has come down to the
personality of a twisted person, again and again we get these sickos
for leadership positions… fie upon it!
let’s make you dean of the law school at berkeley. *g*
Boy did you come to the wrong place.
I don’t think many FDLers are very excited about Barack or Hillary. We’ll support either one over McCain, but they’ve both proven again and again that they’re bought and paid for like the rest of the Vichy Dems.
I don’t see either “fighting” to get us out of Iraq. We had to drag them kicking and screaming into the fight against immunity for the Telecoms.
They don’t have to wait until January 2009 to start working for change. I say lead by example and neither of them is.
Being that I am bi-racial/ multi-racial, I’m just going to sit back and read. I’m tired of trying to enlighten folks that we (multi-racial folks) come in all phenotypes and your identification (where people place you) has much to do with your phenotype. But I have learned that ignorant ass people come in all colors and all political affiliations.
You peopel are so funny you get on here and make judgements about me not knowing who I am or where I come from. You think I am some kind of subversive Bush/McCain supporter. So the way it goes is this if you support Obama you are OK if you dont’ then you are a sleaz..
“ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL, BUT SOME ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS”
Hmmmmm..just sayin
that is not the point of the post. that is what the one poster was arguing but that was not what David was saying.
True.
You’re absolutely right about Doan. She has zero ethnic characteristics consistent with African ancestry. It was just a hoax by the GOP to foist someone who is manifestly not African American as someone who was. It was politically high tech blackface.
I’m a white male and I voted for Obama. Wouldn’t vote for McCain and am growing increasingly reluctant to vote for Senator Hillary Obliterate Iran Varmnit Hunter Crown Royal Shots Clinton.
I have voted for Jeanne Shaheen for Governor several times and it never occured to me not to vote for her because of her gender.
I intend to vote for Shaheen for Senate in the fall.
-G
children are taught to be haters… the old song says you have to be carefully taught… there’s lots of multi-racial folk here one’s skin color isnt always a indcator of one’s background… uts the 21st century and still this shit goes on………
yep.
She’s willing to obliterate Iran and not talk to them.
She’s a fighter alright.
We’re not fond of Hillary or Barack.
We’re extremely anti-GOP and anti-their candidate, McBush.
You keep talking about some difference between Hillary and Barack, where? Until a few months ago, they were both GOP-lite. As the economy goes south, they’re sliding to the left.
Just got here. Great post by Mr. Niewert–spot on target, in my opinion.
Look. You have every right, and I totally respect that, to vote for whoever you believe represents your values.
I’m just saying…leave “race” out of it…Obama is not the one that is making “race” the issue…the media is. If you disagree with his ideas on policy or feel that he is too green as a leader…fine. That is what the country is about. The problem is…the media is creating a “false reality” about Obama playing on his “perceived” race, because of the color of his skin.
Obama needs to be judged on what his positions are on the policies of the US. The only other thing I have to say about this is…don’t listen to the flag pin spin and things like that. Don’t vote McCain in if you don’t want more of the Bush regime.
You are focussed on Obama…what to you know about the real McCain? Do you know that he is supported by tons of lobbyists although he has tried to represent himself as anti-special interest?…That is actually much more important at this point in history. Do you want endless war? Are you okay with using nuclear bunker busters to attack Iran – who does not have a current nuclear weapons program? Fallout? Does that bother you? Do you think torture is okay (McCain voted against opposing waterboarding, although he was himself tortured)…Do you think the G.I.’s should get total healthcare and education benefits: (McCain is opposed). McCain thinks that if you lose your home…it is your fault…not the predatory lending practices that made a big buck on the buyers….Those are things that need to be considered….The Republican nominee will bring more of the same. Bad war policies and bad economic policies.
Either Dem candidate gives us a chance to get out of the horrible situation the country is in. Think hard.
Bushsucks12, where are you on Iraq? Do you want to privatize profits and socialize losses? Where do you stand on the fourth amendment? Where do you stand on torture?
Huh? Explain please. There are many african americans who have a caucasian phenotype but are still african american
I’m multiracial too, wobbly. I’ll take a seat with you for this round. I’ve been dealing with people’s idiocy over the way i identify myself since i can remember, and i still find it stupid to this very day.
Well I have to go home and help my younger daughter with math…then I have to help my older daughter get ready for her Bat Mitzva and I’m not even Jewish….this Friday my younger daughter is having a sleep over with her friend who is half black, half white (wouldn’t mention this ususlly but Raven thinks I’m a goober and would a goober really let a child like that in his house let alone her parents not to mention the Jewish thing there I was in a Synogogue watching my daughter singing in hebrew she is really good)Oh well ta ta Raven love ya mean it!
You are very kind.
I am not qualified for that, but I can still smell poo.
see ya Bs12 — come back again.
How do you describe yourself for the personals?
You know, SWF seeking SWM.
Many of us are. Isn’t that the beauty of America? Heck, I’m German, Norweigan, French, and Blackfoot.
ahh, creds.
how refreshing!
Dave wrote: Too many white voters, especially in rural and suburban precincts, on both sides of the partisan aisle have absorbed these attitudes. Too many of them continue to believe that a black man, no matter how well educated, will ever have ”the stuff” it takes to be president. And that’s why we’ve seen the racial voting trends in Democratic primaries that we have.
Sounds like we are talking racism to me. I’m just reacting because I was quite surprised by the viewpoints of the some of the folks at the convention, i.e. how anti-Obama some were.
Well, everything is in the eye of the beholder. I’ll do what I have been doing, telling folks about McCain and reminding them what is at risk in this election. The next four years will require a strong leader and hopefully Americans will see the Democratic nominee as that leader.
Boy, this nation has never ever ever dealt with racism.
We needed to do one of those truth and reconciliation commitees that South Africa did, but instead we decided to kick the can down the road.
When I hear Bill Clinton stating that Obama “used the race card” I think that it is a very racist thing to say.
‘The race card’ line has been used by whites to belittle the horrors of racism. When Bill uses that term it tells me he needs to learn a lot about race.
-G
It just really hits home for me because my father is blonde hair blue eyed (caucasian phenotype) and my mother’s phenotype is that of the brasilian mulatta (terrible word by the way). Here is the kicker, my dad calls himself afro brasilian but he doesn’t look like one. So much for identity. But then again, this is precisely what I;m doing my master’s studies on…that is identity, cors cultural encounters, etc.
which makes you more qualified than the current dean.
cool, glad to have some company. I’m gonna just read now
Okay…*g*…
I’m glad you came and talked with us!!!
Boy, you’ve got your hands full.
Peace!
“We’re?” You do not speak for me. I am fond of both of them.
I’m married but I get asked all the time what I am.
my answer: racially ambiguous
Historian Henry Wiencek, in his award-winning 2004 book “An Imperfect God: George Washington, His Slaves, and the Creation of America”, citing original documents he discovered in the files of Mount Vernon and the Virginia Historical Society, writes that Martha Washington owned her own mulatto half-sister, a slave named Ann Dandridge, who had a child by Martha’s son (and therefore Ann’s nephew), John Parke “Jack” Custis. Another source on the existence of a slave named Ann Dandridge was Helen Bryan’s 2001 “Martha Washington: First Lady of Liberty.” In this book, which draws upon Wiencek’s research, Bryan stated that the “shadow sister” was close to Martha’s age and had been with her since they were children.
Oh please ask Obama the same question..”If Iran attacked Isreal with nuclear weapons what would the Untied States response be?”
It is a fixed position of every President of the United States since Isreal was founded, that the United States will defend Isreal..it is the reason Bobby Kennedy was killed Sirhan Sirhan was enraged that Kennedy had sworn to protect Isreal. I assure you that Obama would say the same thing if only to ensure the Jewish vote. Oh and were you as worked up about Obama saying that he would invade Pakistan if he thought it was necessary to find Bin Laden..did you have as much trouble with that statement as you do with Hillary saying what every President sine Harry Truman has said?
When I asked you how you knew someone was “white” you responded with this at 80:
There you go again at 130:
You’re so highly attuned to ethnicity. You can even do it in fractions.
Raven was too damn polite to you.
Those of us who stood by Clinton back in the day, who supported Moveon’s efforts, sorry to say, have IMHO been given cause of late to second-guess if maybe we wouldn’t have been better off if we had President Gore running for re-election in 2000.
i dont even ant to go into my background – i’ll just say i’m a true melting pot american lol
Really? Come on.
umm..
“wobbly seeking spindle”?
[ducks below turntable]
Above all else my great reluctance with Sen. Clinton is the suspicion that she would leave the Democratic Party in shambles just as it was when Bill Clinton was done his presidency.
-G
And, just who is “us?”
Too many of them continue to believe that a black man, no matter how well educated, will ever have ”the stuff” it takes to be president
I could be way off base, but it might be regional. I live in a very red county and my older children attended a pretty diverse highschool. The experience was overwhelmingly positive. They respect people for who they are and not because of their skin color.
Bushsucks12, where are you on Iraq? Do you want to privatize profits and socialize losses? Where do you stand on the fourth amendment? Where do you stand on torture?
OK i really have to go but I will answer these to the best of my ability
1) Iraq never should have gone in it was a lie and I knew it
2)No
3)It is elemental to our existence as a countruy
4)I do not think that there is any excuse for any type of torture at any time and that those responsible for torture should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law in front of the world court at the Hague!
See…this is where you misunderstood FDL….
FDL is not an “Obama” site or a HRC site.
You have many valid points. Most of my personal answers are…Yeah, I got worked up…I guess you figured that out already….*g*
I just want us the hell out of the hell we are in.
Don’t try and change the topic, gooper.
Hillary’s the one “waving the bloody shirt” about Iran.
some of my best friends…
The whole concept of “race” is totally ridiculous to me.
Someone very close to me is “multi-racial” by sight, but they are adopted, estranged from adoptive family and never found out the background, so they have absolutely no idea what their heritage is. Makes filling out government forms a pain. By “looks,” could pass for about 3-4 different “ethnicities,” but they identify themselves along class terms more than anything about skin color.
Aren’t we’re all mixed race after all?
Oh Boo you really are not being fair you left out my qulifier regarding my daughters sleep over friend..I said I wouldn’t have mentioned it except that Raven thinks I’m a goober and well you know what I said..be fair.
And you’re absolutely right. Ethnicity is not legally relevant in the U.S.
That’s why the gooper troll, Bushsucks69 is over here throwing around the white supremacist dictionary, 1/2 black, white, ….
That is the “code” 101.
not true she was asked a question that has been posited to every Presidnet since Harry Truman and she gave the same answere that Obama would have to give as well.
Growing up in southern Illinois, I can testify that there were various sundown towns there in the 60s and 70s — though I can’t say anything about their current status.
Sobering post, Dave . . . and quite the comment thread as well. *g*
oh please.
Obama has been accused of being too “pro- Palestinian” because he has not said such things.
And I did appreciate him speaking truth about Pakistan– Bush’s BFF and the Taliban that they both support.
More, better questions?
gooper.
Raven misspelled.
I’m a goober, can’t you tell.
You’re a gooper, a GOP’er.
This sounds like the return of Juno. What’s up?
They both talk like fools on these matters, too much loose talk about
dusting somebody’s broom for votes… dangerous political stunt not
confined to one party either, a call and raise nuclear trash talk
habit has been promoted and accepted by the MSM for entertainment…
madness, madness.
Link
Seems like a good time to let this one go.
A long time ago after visiting the a few Southern states I returned to Detroit and mentioned how it seemed to me that racial relations were less polarized, or more laid back than in the North.
the friend’s reply stuck with me:
“Racism is racism wherever you go, iti just smells different”
The code is “he’s not seasoned enough”. From there on the argument is lost.
Outstanding post, David. Thank you.
To me, the term “colour blindness” infers one cannot see the colour differences between groups of humans. By extension, one does not see, or chooses to ignore, the difference of cultures, beliefs, etc of others “not like me” and thereby purposely rejects the opportunity to learn of something outside one’s own experience. A desire to remain ignorant and unsophisticated, as it were.
I have neither the time nor inclination to engage the world in such a manner.
Well people know I’m not all white but they can’t put their finger on it.
That’s why the gooper troll, Bushsucks69 is over here throwing around the white supremacist dictionary, 1/2 black, white, ….
My My such anger….are you sure you support Obama?
Thanks to you and Dr. Kirk Murphy above.
It’s not just something that happened below the Mason Dixon line.
thanks G-i really want to know the real numbers on this, i’m tellin’ ya, it’s certainly the case here where i live.
pollsters–they’ve ripped apart the numbers for who won’t vote for a ’black man’ and once again the women don’t get a true report on what affects them..who won’t vote for a woman…….it really sucks and i’m really peeved off about it.
and noone is saying anything about it. i mean noone.
as the fair pay act goes down the drain…….as the supreme court says it’s legal to pay a woman less and she can’t sue, as congress says, no problemo, it’s ok with us…….
i’m sick of it.
this has turned into a clinton thing, and meanwhile data that women need to have to stop this shit isn’t being talked about or recorded. the obama data is being compiled and used as ’black man’ data…..cllinton data >>>>>nada. women need that data, for chrissake, they just said it was legal to pay a woman less money for the same work!!!!! like illegal immigrants!!!!!!!!!!!!
is this ok with people? cuz it’s not ok with me.
i gotta go, have a good night.
My apologies RBG.
It is worth being aware of…that is the point. We have to stop identifying by skin color or whose parent is whatever….
Our society operates on “automatic”…people just don’t thing about the nuances of what effect the kids….
How would the kid coming over for the sleepover feel about being identified by who their “ancestor” is…
That is the point. They are already analized, and they are just coming for a slumber party. That is the point. It is our society.
There is clearly a difference between declaring support and being bellicose and war-mongering.
Threatening tp “obliterate” another nation smacks of genocidal ravings.
-G
go figure that some folks seek us muddled people out. think that we are exotic and the like. Mr wobbs (brit..100% anglo saxon) wanted his genes muddled *g*
Reading comprehension can be fun.
I already told you, I’ll vote for the Democratic nominee, be it Hillary or Barack.
Well, I think Mitchell’s statistics clearly indicate that racism does affect how a not-insignificant chunk of Democratic voters in Pennsylvania vote.
Refined white supremacists always piss me off.
Oh I’m sorry I didn’t know which way you were trying to insult me….very kind of you to let me know.
well said.
(But then you are a person of reason)
I thought you had to go help your daughter with math. Hmmm?
I keep trying to get people to understand that Mississippi is much larger
that it’s boundaries, Reagan brought Jim Crow back and he is alive and
well, especially in the North, among the “working class”, nudge, wink…
Meanwhile the Israeli government has been caught yet again violating the trust of the nation that has offered unconditional support and billions in aid.
Kadish is the new Pollard.
-G
You might check out the searchable map (found via the “sundown towns” link above)
Clicking on some states gets you more towns than others, but they do list some below the Mason-Dixon line.
So then why is it OK for some on here to identify me as a goober or gooper or as a white supremiscist or this:
“That’s why the gooper troll, Bushsucks69 is over here throwing around the white supremacist dictionary, 1/2 black, white, ….”
Isn’t this the exact same thing as racism..it still is meant to hurt the heart.
Gawd…is that like Wunderbread?
You nailed that!! I’m a witness.
Even Anglo…there’s tons of “mixture” in Anglo lineage. It’s all so silly…
yep.
(ary a whisper)
Obviously Many things piss you off…mostly your anger I suspect.
And now I will take leave!
uh, mods, could we get a new thread?
I’ve had it with this one. No reflection on David.
um, I meant nary
PS. Watching HRC run against Obama is like watching Wallace run against
LBJ… same tone of defiance and it works well enough to stall out the
system… we are stuck in a time warp where it is 1968 every election
year, only now TV makes money off the bloody mess.
Perhaps if your opening comment had been a little less inflammatory, folks might not have jumped on it and successive comments?
I was sort’ve wondering if there are any people of colour in here
Either that, or your oh-so-polite first comment at the top of the thread.
Are you a threadist?
-G
IMO
The tempest about Dems (or even Independents) voting for McCain if their favorite doesn’t get the nomination is a false flag.
Once a strong light is shined on McCain his past and his future will alienate support.
Sure he’s a war hero.
A war hero with anger management issues, who left a crippled wife and family to marry a wealthy trophy wife with a drug problem she supported by stealing drugs from a charity.
A war hero who would be 73 on Inauguration Day, bringing the phrase “heartbeat from the Presidency” new vigor.
You better beleive *his* choice of running mate will be critical….and who in their right mind is jonesing for Veep in this election.
of course, we “original” brits – the Celts – see the Anglo-Saxon gene pool as quite muddled.
cursed blond-heads….
why can’t they go back to Saxony where they came from?
/s
Like it or not identity politics is alive and well in the Democratic Party. However, identity politics is not necessarily one and the same thing as racism.
“Sure he’s a war hero.
A war hero with anger management issues, who left a crippled wife and family to marry a wealthy trophy wife with a drug problem she supported by stealing drugs from a charity.”
__________
We let Bu’ush get into office, a documentable sleazeball draft-dodging dilettante loser.
Truly, the concept of “purity” of race is obscene and absurd.
All humans and all sentient beings and unsentient beings are relative… Oh, and if you think those that are not sentient aren’t the same….well..think about it.
Any other philosophy is…frikkin’…..common.
Umm yes technically but if someone who is part german and part irish isn’t going to be taken for anything but white.
I am of a mixed background.
Can y’all guess– is it colour or ideology or what?
In America, all of it matters but nothing as much as skin color and gender and religion, imho.
But all of it matters to those that want the control.
“There is no scientific justification for the notion of ‘race’.”
- Craig Ventner, Celera Genomics
see my #193
white + white = white (no one can tell by your appearance..you are still anglo)
Clinton Dems (some of them) find shelter for their prejudices in the DLC politic. I am from Arkansas and this is evident in every day conversations I have. After all her number one fund raising crowd today centered around AR Senator Mark (anti choice) Pryor and old FOB (friend of Bill’s) moneyed southern base.
These folks are terrified of confronting racism and would much rather say nothing than confront the issues. ANd if they look racist or capitulate to the haters, that bothers them far less than confronting it.
“The whole concept of “race” is totally ridiculous to me.”
Ain’t that the truth. I’m an anthropologist by trade, and from that point of view, “race” is a social construct that has nothing to do with science.
I live in Hawaii now, and we have such a blend of “races” here that it would be impossible to sort out. But that doesn’t prevent people from trying. My fiancee’s Filipino mother used to caution her not to spend too much time in the sun, or she’d get “too black.” Hmm, I wonder what she meant by that.
Many people here have a salad bowl heritage. 1/8 this, 1/8 that, 1/4 something else, and so on. Fill in the blank with
Native Hawaiian
“White” (Haole in local parlance)
Japanese
Chinese
Filipino
Korean
Black (but not many)
Hispanic (but not many)
and many others, all in a profusion of combinations. Obama and Tiger Woods are perfect for Hawaii.
Get ready for it, America.
Bob in HI
Exactly right. It all started with the story of Ham and went on from there. Maybe people need to understand that we are also related to snails and slugs.
no, I’m just bitter.
think I’ll go bowling.
and really no one should give a damn what ur background is…. judge a person on how they interact with others… do u work and play well with others? lol
no, i’m just wondering, i live in a black city, a black neighborhood, most of my students are black, I just find it difficult to have a discussion on racism with only race present, no matter what the race … oh, and my children are multiracial … their father is of japanese heritage … so, I sort’ve live a life with a foot in several places … so, I just kind’ve like to know where folks come from when racism is discussed, if it’s an intellectual or philosophical discussion or a life experience discussion
so true. look at Mccain’s adoptive daughter. all the bruha about the ‘black’ daughter and she is from Bangladesh but because she is very dark skinned,the black thing worked for the smear
*g*
not disagreeing with you there.
my disagreement is that the link you gave to paul’s post, and which you described as “looking at national data and voting trends so far in these races.” was on two states only (not national) and used polling data (not voting trends). i haven’t read that post carefully – i’m still on number 2 of the series. but i don’t think it shows “largely the same trend” as the mitchell quote – unless you mean in the most general of ways – that the race of the candidate probably matters in the polling results. but even then my comments wrt to scope (not national) and measure (voting vs polling) still stand.
@7:21
Make Haste Genuine Liberal Friend! Our deepest thoughts are with you!
@7:46
Are you STILL here?
Make Haste!
(and learn how to use spell check, makes you seem less stupid…)
8 years is a long time – and there have been lessons learned on push back
shit – 4 years is a long time
and if I were to characterize the single quality I think Obama has over Clinton )or Kerry or Gore), it is the ability to push back clearly, immediately and with measured force.
This has been the most impressive characteristic of his candidacy for me – not ‘hope’ – not ‘first black president’ – not ‘reformer’
Effective
Something we have not seen since I started voting (and it’s been a few elections, my friend)
Thank you.
I think we’d be a lot better off using the term “ethnicity,” when we’re forced to talk about it at all.
We’re all one “race,” the human race.
drunk cokehead
Ding!
“race” is a social construct.
and crap – i just agreed with Craig Ventner. Now I have to get pithed again.
(oh well – I’ll still be able to outsmart those accursed Anglo-Saxon invaders)
I appreciate your comment and inquiry.
It’s important.
Shall we all sing together now?
I think you really nailed it:
When you look at the GOP debates, they were all male, and all 100% European American, German, Irish, French, Italian, English.
If someone comes in with Latin ancestors or African ancestors, game over. No matter how far back, they’re tainted. They’re not 100% European American.
better but all the better to do it george carlin style…screw until we are all brown
“Barack Obama has the best opportunity to create a new sense of national unity and to transcend divisions within this country, not by ignoring them or smoothing them over, but by working together with candor and civility to meet our challenges,” Hamilton said in a statement released by Obama’s campaign.
This is from HuffPo and still a large part of the reason I am drawn to Obama. Usually, I think that the fact he has even come this far has been a sign of hope. He seems to have gifts that fit with some of the needs of our country. Earlier in the campaign I was quite torn between him and HRC. He does represent something new.
A few years back I was looking on the web for something about Tiger Woods. Much of what I found were some shocking racist comments. How could anyone not like Tiger, that fresh young man. Is racism still with us? Yes, if horrifying words and attitudes. Obama’s success to date, I think, has brought us to a new chapter no matter the outcome. I think some of Bill Clinton’s snark has been the threat and even removing the fig-leaf of his being the first Black President. Well, the observation worked, clever, just not reality. Now he has to deal with a new and true reality; he never was the first Black President.
I love it when the anti-evolutionists deride and deny our “being descended from apes.”
Dudes, I gots news for ya; fuck “apes,” you’re the unlikely progeny of microbes.
See “Walk, Drunkards’, Gould, Stephen” LOL.
well, I’m already brown *g*
What do you want to sing?
no, NO!
never be pithed again.
Love it when science backs up me thoughts! Thanks for that viewpoint.
I’m so ready for it. My kids (oldest is 12) really don’t seem to understand what all this is about. It really helps to have a variety of skin tones dominating our mass media. I’m hopeful for the future.
Some people may be. Not me, you degenerate!
Thank goddess my mucosa are active enough so I can go empty my innards.
Molluscs – blergh. Slimy little bastards. Enough to put me off my crab cakes.
I’ve often tried to put my mind around why someone would just hate someone because of their skin color. A question for the ages, I guess
Wow BobbyG-
you beat me to it. I have been thinking about posting something along the same lines, but you did it better. I would totally agree. Scientist speaking here.
“There is no scientific justification for the notion of ‘race’.”
i just looked up highland park, tx since i lived in dallas for a while (not that long ago) and not that far from highland park (geographically – as a practical matter it was on another planet).
here’s a bit from the link:
the stories i heard from my black and brown friends of getting pulled over by police just for driving through town were infuriating. perhaps i should be glad no one got shot – but that’s just not good enough.
I’m afraid that’s the only long term solution. People in the US who are 100% European American, just have such a hard time “getting it.” They’ve never lived where they were an ethnic minority.
Ever see Spike Lee’s School Daze? I thought he really captured it well.
sorry – just get snarky at “We are the World” thing sometimes.
Really undeserved in this instance.
100% European American.
In the days of Brown v. Board, all the fine HP residents who had live-on “help” made the help move off premises so there would be no question of “those people” ever being eligible to attend an HP school. That’s been about 50 years ago; My, times don’t really change. Thanks for the update, as it were.
No problem.
The old song referred to earlier is true
“You have to be carefully taught”
Yeah sad but true commentary about racism within the black community due to skin color. nice legacy of colonialism
Im not sure I should write this, but the hate part is more than just color when you hear people talk: the hate includes things like dirty, lazy, whatever. Plus rationalizations like red birds don’t mate with blue birds. Is it all really tribal and zenophobic? I don’t know. Plus, ignorance, I guess.
Lemme tell some personal stuff about “race.” I adopted a mixed race girl baby at birth. We learned up close & personal about bigotry, as we moved to the Bible Belt when she was 5 (Birmingham AL). Race relations have come a long way in the south, but lotta folks there still don’t cotton to “niggah lovers.”
She will be 38 this July, has a Masters, and is the Executive Director of First Tee of Southern Nevada, and, like her Daddy, Takes No Prisoners. Her boy Keenan, my beloved grandson, was ranked 43rd in the nation by the time he was 12 in the USTA. He just got a full ride to a private high school, and will no doubt have the same to a Div I university.
The bullshit we went through has all been worth it. In “spades” LOL.
the best conversations i’ve had were the ones based on life experiences – all in dallas. for a while i was a member of rainbow now, which was a great group for working with race and gender at the same time. there were a few group meetings (maybe socials?) where we were joking about writing a book (to raise funds) and in it would be all the questions we wanted to ask each other but might feel a little hesitant to… like: “how much of your body hair is really blond?” after a while of these kinds of questions – and honest answers – had us in stitches of laughter.
the other thing i found very useful was an understanding race workshop that i attended – there was overlap with the rainbow now crowd – but it was more structured… however, all the learning was from each other and our varying experiences of living in dallas. that one blew my mind. every single black person had been stopped in a store to have their bags checked. stuff like that.
Congrats!
Congratulations. It brings me to tears (of happiness) to read that. You must be one proud poppa and grandpoppa. you did good.
You were fine to include it. The dominant culture projects all the worst traits on the minority culture(s).
I think what’s missing is the history of legalized white supremacy after the Civil War. The descendants of the slaves made many heroic attempts to build a middle class. The white supremacy laws made it impossible for them to hold onto it.
In addition to being denied habeas corpus, access to credit, housing, jobs, the descendants of the slaves were denied access to education. In the 1920’s in Florida, there were FOUR high schools in the entire state that would admit students of both genders who were not 100% European American.
molluscs! bloody molluscs! sliming their precious bodily fluids all over – ugh.
why, why – who do they think they are?
motor racing poo-bahs with a fetish for Nazi “adult parties”? Goopers congress-critters turning over the odd page or two?
bloody, awful molluscs – who let them into the Lake?
i’d complain – but it’s like casting pearls before pikes….
That’s it! I’m off! Late to meet Col Blimp at the oyster bar as it is….
No degenerate bivalves there!
Most European Americans think everything’s been “equal” since the Civil War. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I just wish her sister were still around. We’d all be laughin’ oiur asses off even more every day.
I can speak a little from personal experience – a lot of predjudice stems from ethnicity. Born in Cleveland and raised in the suburbs after the age of 2, and grew up in a totally blue collar family. Mom’s parents were Sicilian, came over in the early 1900’s and raised their family in a poor downtown neighborhood, in the same neighborhood as African Americans. Grandma, my mom, and most of her sisters and brothers were racially predjudiced, even though they didn’t think they were. Never heard my grandpa utter any racial stereotypes, however. He was about social justice his whole life, and I got many lectures from him about it as a youngster. Likewise, my dad (not Italian) was raised with a live,let-live attitude, and always stressed not to judge anyone as a group, but judge people by who and what they are as individuals.
Don’t know if some of the predjudice was caused by somehting that occurred to a family member growing up, no one would ever elaborate, but mom and dad would argue from time to time about race,, sometimes it got pretty heated.
I am not trying to generalize here, I am just talking about my observations growing up in the Cleveland area. I observed that these attitudes did not only extend to Italians. There are many ethnic groups around Cleveland, and I observed some of the same attitudes among people I knew from Polish, Irish, Slovenian, etc backgrounds, and especially the blue collar. I suspect this extends to parts of PA as well.
The ironic thing is, I bet many of the people that willl not support Obama because he is black, don’t stop to think that he is actually half white. Just sayin’.
LOL my friends call it ‘personal attention’
I’m so sorry for your lost and thank you for sharing your beautiful family and story. I appreciate more than you know.
i still think someone should write that book – it was too funny. and if it sold, it might help break some of the barriers that divide people who’ve grown up in segregated communities.
Im in TX and my dad used to talk about how the old, used text books from the public schools were passed over to the Black schools. Separate but equal, dontcha know?
Thanks very much.
I have zero patience for bigots. Acquired that taste the hard way.
beautiful!
just want to mention that i missed BobbyG’s comment at first, must have temporarily gotten caught in the filters. hard refresh will bring it up though.
LOL. musta been that (not so) tangential “N” word.
Good night Gentle folk. After last night, I’ve been around much too long. One of may all time favorite quotes has become the Rodney King question: Can we all get along? He made it sound like a prayer or a lament. I guess we are still waiting for the answer. But I can still hear and loved the way he asked.
Even worse, you’re not only descended (ultimately from microbes) but you are significantly made up of microbes (both in terms of DNA insertions and all those microbes in your gut and elsewhere.
Creationists assert this sort of stuff is insulting, but then they say it’s much more significant that we are made from dirt.
LOL!
Yeah.
The 4+ billion year random walk. I find that inspiring, actually.
beautifully said. thank you.
For crying out loud, there is racism in the black community. Spike Lee mocked this in one of his early films. At the same time Oprah, Will Smith, Tiger Woods have transcended race, and this is what Obama could have done. He was both white and black and there was great promise that he could be beyond race. However, instead of diffusing matters in SC he exaggerated Bill Clinton’s remark to pummel one of the least racist presidents that this nation has ever had; one who had been called the first black president not so long ago. It coalesced the African American vote around him, but he also no longer transcended race. In my opinion he lost the transcendent mantle for good when his long-term association with a radical Afrocentric church and pastor came out. I suspect that it will take another non-white candidate without this kind of baggage to truly appeal across the board and win in the general election.
Race keeps getting injected into the campaign because there are lots of people who find it to their advantage to do so. Obama has tried to run a largely non-racial campaign…simply because he knows that he has to transcend this issue if he is to succeed. It’s interesting that Paul Lukasiak suggested that Obama stole a lot of Edwards rhetoric (whether this “charge” of theft is true or not is irrelevant to my argument~ Obama used the same themes back in his State campaigns in the 1990’s). I’d suggest that there is a certain “fatigue” that hits multiple cycle candidates in terms of support. Many candidates have a sense of “entitlement” for their previous backers…but end up being coopted by fresh candidates with strong charisma. Edwards did well with the African-American community against Sharpton in several Southern states…but not as well the second-go-round. But that was true of many of his constituencies. Not simply African Americans.
Remember Ferarro’s comments that Obama BENEFITTED from his race…she didn’t suggest that he might benefit from his being the youngest, or the one that opposed the Iraq War from the onset, or that he was the only one from a major Great Lakes State (while the other candidates kind of split up the regions), or was the “fresh face”, or a Great orator, or was the most internationally travelled in his upbringing, appealed to younger voters, etc. In the early primaries ALL of these factors were very significant, and more so, than “race”. I don’t think Obama benefitted one twit for being dark-skinned in Iowa or New Hampshire or Vermont or South Dakota or Idaho…etc. It didn’t help numerous candidates that are identified as black before.
And we have to realize that “race” is more than a persons skin color…it’s all the stereotypes that are associated with that group. In fact, that’s REALLY what is used. How many other candidates have been queried so intensely about either attending or associating with religious figures with views that would be anathema to most in the General public? People who haven’t simply talked in abstract terms, but have actually threatened to pass laws against or support attacks upon gays, women seeking abortions, their doctors, Muslims, San Francisco, New Orleans, etc. Crickets. 15% of the public PERSISTS in thinking that he’s Muslim…would they even think that of someone like McCain?
This isn’t to say that Hillary hasn’t been subjected to sexism that is also irrelevant to her positions on issues. In fact, I think that much of her strategy to deal with this is just the opposite of what Obama has attempted. She has tried to out-masculine her opponents, particularly in the areas that are traditionally considered the “male domain”- foreign policy. Hence her bellicose comments about Iran. One can’t even consider the possibility of negotiating with a nations leaders that are demonized in the media as it would show weakness…even if that nation actually isn’t a real threat. Or that the bellicose statements might actually encourage a situation that might lead to nuclear conflict.
And Sue…that’s precisely what Bill Clinton intended to do. His remarks were intended to frame Obama as a black candidate in a heavily black State.The remarks were polarizing…and notice that no comparisons with Jesse Jackson or Sharpton were made earlier.And Obama, in fact, pointed out that his message was not one that focussed on pushing a specifically African-American agenda. I think that the SC AA community was, quite frankly, insulted by those remarks and that’s why they consolidated around Obama.
There are certainly blacks that are racist, too. They generalize more broadly than they should about individual encounters that relate to their general hardships. But there are often good and real reasons for their “chips”…black people are 9 times more likely to be below the poverty line than whites. Black males have a 50% likelihood of going to jail sometime in their life. These are not the result of some inborn genetic difference…they are the effects of a long history of institutionalized racism and generational poverty that we, as Americans, haven’t come to grips with. But just as abandoning and ignoring white racial attitudes won’t change those that carry those attitudes, saying that blacks who have antagonisms against whites, or the systems that have kept them disproportionately in poverty and in the lower end of the middle class, isn’t going to resolve things there either. Many of these issues can be moved along by dealing in general with poverty in general.
Ahem…that’s a pretty typical black church. And a pretty typical fire-and-brimstone preacher. It’s an Afrocentric church only in the sense that it deals primarily with African Americans and their struggles in that community. They refer to Jews as “black”, not because they ARE (anyone can see that they AREN’T) but because their struggles against Pharaoh mirror their own historical struggle. They aren’t out worshipping Nubian idols, or Santeria saints. And Jesus represents to them a god-given figure who provided a message of spiritual resistance to an oppressed people(initially the Jews under Roman occupation) and people universally struggling for answers. As to whether that’s radical…I think many Christians (including white evangelicals and many “mainstream Christians) would say Christianity is a radical message…it’s about social justice and change and breaking out of the status quo when that’s based on oppression, immorality, greed, and alienation from other human beings.
Wuu Uhho caught in another lie
The Illinois Democrat received $46,000 in donations from executives and workers last month. In a campaign ad, he said he took no money from oil companies.
By Dan Morain, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
10:45 PM PDT, April 23, 2008
Sen. Barack Obama continued accepting donations from oil company executives and employees last month even as he aired ads in which he stated he took no oil company money, his campaign finance reports show.
Obama has taken at least $263,000 from oil company executives, family members and employees since entering the presidential race last year, including $46,000 last month. At least $140,000 has come in chunks of between $1,000 and $2,300, the maximum permitted under federal law.
Could it be that they see him as:
Inexperienced….
A liar…..
Not interested in their interests?
Hmmmmmmmm?
That’s how I see him and why I won’t vote for him. I’m, white, a leader of a Drinking Liberally Chapter…old enough to have fought Reagan’s goons on the streets…a draft refuser, I’ve spent time with Bobby Seale and Ice Cube…dig….if you know what that means…and oh, yeah did I mention I’m white.
But what blows a friggin’ hole in your Bowers-like argument Dave is my co-chair at D/L Oakand?
He sees the Magic Man the same way as I do.
He’s black.
I really think there is not enough evidence for arguments revolving around Obama’s race. The guy has deer-in-the-headlights loser painted all over him for a lot of reasons and being black is certainly one of them with racists of whatever party but your argument ignores the underlying issues of economics and class and thus cannot be taken as a serious attempt to tackle this issue..
Obama and the rest of the Dem establishment apart from the Clintons won’t touch the issues of economics and class because they are far to indebted to those who created our current system to be able to do so. Until they do they will continue to lose to the Republicans.
Clinton under the pressure of a looming defeat has taken to speaking more truthfuly about these issues. That Obama never will is demonstrated by his speech on race which had nothing to say about class and spent most of it’s energy on discussing Rev. Wright the classic red herring for the real issues.
Class and economic stratification.
Attempts to define parts of the Democratic Party as ‘racists’ are horseshit Dave. Google IAT and you will find that everyone is somewhat racist in this country. Even the black citizens.
Start talking about what matters: Cui Bono?
People got real hostile when I pointed out that racism is alive and matters and will hurt Obama in a general – 6 months or so ago.
ACitizen – I can’t even count the ways I disagree with you on this comment. But the most searing is this:
You use the preferences of a Black man you know to describe the lack of racist sentiment in the general populous. That disconnect relieves all of us of having to even read the rest of your comment.
Oh, and do some Googling. Then tell us Obama is a comparable liar.
Hillary Clinton+nafta
Hillary Clinton+sniper+Bosnia
Hillary Clinton+AUMF
Hillary Clinton+peace+Northern Ireland.
Clinton? Dealing with the issues of economics and class? That really happened between 8-16 years ago. I’m not talking about better economic times simply because of the post-Cold War benefit and dot.com bubble…real economic transformation that deals with class issues? Are we thinking the same Billk and Hillary that pushed NAFTA and other free-trade deals and argued that open markets even without tough cross border international labor union rights were intrinsically good? Bill helped create the current system…the one that includes Rahm Emanuel and Steny Hoyer and the others that have done nothing to stanch the Republicans.
Is that former Black Panther named Eldridge?
And this is germane to a discussion of race…how?
As to the issue as to accepting the contributions by a politician. 1) Do family members have to report a relatives employment affiliation…or do they report their own? 2) Were the contributions bundled or concealed in some way that the employment or management position wasn’t clear. 3) In the days of automated contributions, were the donations processed, but subsequently refunded as not meeting the criteria the campaign accepts.
And lastly…how much oil company money have the other candidates accepted? While it is certainly wrong to portray oneself as not taking money from certain interests and then INTENTIONALLY doing so…I’d say that one should also balance that with whether the other candidates are accepting far greater amounts or have lawyers , lobbyists or executives from those interests on their campaign staffs.
How can Doctor King’s vow ” I have a dream” come true?
Yes the European Jews caused Hitler.
The Souix, the Cheyenne, the Iroquois, the Commanche, the Nez Perce, the Apache, the Crow, and all the other native American tribes caused the European Americans to try and exterminate them.
Please go support St. John McSane. Give him all your money.
Everyone here, except you and Bushsux understand the limitations of the Presidential race. It’s about the Supreme Court nominees. There’s a GOP volunteer center near you.
The comment @ 274 is missing a paragraph, should have read like this:
Couldn’t let this one go:
“If Iran attacked Isreal with nuclear weapons what would the Untied States response be?”“
You are accepting a neo-con frame of this situation in the first place. It is quite questionable whether Iran would have nuclear weapons in the first place since the United States would do a better job working with its allies rather than saying “my way or the highway” which has been the US policy for almost 8 years now and is a miserable failure.
“Everyone here, except you and Bushsux understand the limitations of the Presidential race. It’s about the Supreme Court nominees.”
I will first qualify my post by stating that I am also neither a fan of Obama nor Clinton. I feel that Obama uses way too many GOP frames on economic issues, especially in regard to health care and social security and has had the unfortunate affiliation with Joe Lieberman, which sets off alarm bells about his judgment. In regard to Hillary, I admire her willingness to do whatever it takes to win as it shows character, I think she is too beholden to the establishment and the Washington lobbyists and consultant class to truly change the country’s direction; one of the biggest reasons we are in the mess we are in now is that Bill Clinton did away with many of the Depression era regulations that kept our financial institutions honest and in line – he had Robert Rubin as his Treasury Secretary and kept Saint Alan “I love Ayn Rand” Greenspan as Chairman of the Fed.
Having said all of this, I agree wholeheartedly with Dave’s post. While Clinton supporters, such as Bushsucks (or, if you want some bloggers for examples, Jeralyn Meritt’s crew or Larry Johnson’s group), take it to heart as meaning that they personally are racist for supporting Clinton. This is not what he is saying. The issue is that there is more than likely a subset of the Clinton supporters who will never vote for a “black person” but will not admit it because it is “un-PC” to do so. When Pat Buchanan and Joe Scarborough talk about “electability” in regard to Obama, this is a dog whistle. Once we get to the general and the “independents” come into play, this is what Greg Mitchell and Dave are speaking about. Don’t tell me that there won’t be another version of the Swift Boats. I envision something along the lines of what happened to Harold Ford if it’s Obama.
You have to be willfully blind to not see signs of racism all over this country to this very day – living outside of the USA it becomes even clearer. I, as a former ex-pat, and Ian, as a Canadian, both agree that in 6 months time this will be the big unspoken problem. The fact that it is such a heated topic shows that the wounds of Jim Crow have still not healed; I think that there is a measure of guilt in people’s conscience if they have a racist thought, and they react accordingly by objecting vehemently.
I know that a lot of people are confident since the Dems are winning +10R seats in Alabama; I am really concerned that, especially among independents and “moderate” GOPers there will be too many people that either stay home or vote for the maverick St. John, who will appoint more John Robertses and Samuel Alitos.
The good news is, if the cloture votes are any indication, that neither Clinton nor Obama supported either of them. McCain, on the other, was just that ol’ debbil maverick, voting aye on both of ‘em along with 75+ other colleagues. When you stay home on election day and don’t support the Democratic candidate, regardless of who it is and for whatever reason that may be, you will be reaping the Supreme Court that let Ledbetter happen and that will overturn Roe that you sowed.
“that’s precisely what Bill Clinton intended to do. His remarks were intended to frame Obama as a black candidate in a heavily black State.”
And framing Obama is a predominantly black state was going to help his wife how? It was a statement acknowledging that African Americans would have pride in one of their own running and that there was a precedence in such a victory with Jesse Jackson. Even Jackson didn’t think that it was a racist comment. Bill is comfortable discussing politics and African American in a manner that a typical white politician might not. Even without rehashing whether Bill is a racist or not, why couldn’t Obama have been gracious and diffused the situation with a joke? He would have been praised and his reputation as someone above race would have been cemented. Instead, the events in SC and his (supporter’s) hyperbolic reaction framed him as a black candidate when, up to then, he was neither. But I also believe that this is all moot because it was his association with Trinity and Wright that killed the race transcendent message that he was touting.
I respectfully disagree with your characterization of this church as metaphorically harmless. If a white church preached about Jews killing a white Jesus they would be universally condemned as being horribly racist (or anti-semitic). Why is it any different when a black church (and the majority of black churches don’t preach this sort of message) preaches that white (and other pejorative descriptions) Romans killed a black Jesus? When other white-conspiracy statements are also taken to account, this is a strange church to be associated with if one were truly beyond race. This, more than SC, in my opinion, damaged his claims to be a non-racial new face for this country. Shelby Steele’s description of the non-threatening black “bargainer” in white America is unflattering to both blacks and whites and the kind of society we have, but it is close to the truth IMO. But the Rev. Wright is no “bargainer” and, unfortunately, it IS a reflection on Obama’s judgment. It is true that McCain is not called out on his association with the Rev. Hagee, an equally odious preacher, but no one had any illusions of McCain as being racially transcendent. There is great hypocrisy in politics, but the uni-racial identification of this mixed-race candidate was largely of his own doing.
What a wonderful example of extremely refined, Ph.D. level, white supremacist language.
I’m so interested in the “mixed-race” thing. I have Irish and German ancestors. Am I “mixed-race?”
.
So conversion is impossible. Men who thought their gender was superior can never change.
What you fail to understand is that most descendants of slaves have zero trust of European Americans. They don’t go to school to learn how to be “African American.” It’s the consistency of the massive and unrelenting prejudice they face that educates them.
Is it tough to write something that is that historically ignorant.
European Americans systematically and under “cover” of the “law” stole all the economic resources, among other things, from the the slaves and their descendants. The theft occurred before 1865 under the guise of slavery and afterwards under the guise of “legalized white supremacy.”
The playing field is not level.
Do the European semitic peoples have the same responsibility for the European holocaust as the European Christians?