John McCain makes his trip this week sound so nice: "I want to tell people living there that there must not be any forgotten parts of America." It's a pity that his own memory seems to be fading, however. Perhaps three more stops for his "Forgotten Places Tour" will help him remember what America stands for, and what it stands against.
Stop #1: Fort Hunt, just south of Alexandria VA, is the site of a successful WWII interrogation program that employed not torture but respect. The National Park Service runs the place now, and they are working on an oral history project of those days. Some of the former interrogators (now in their 90s) may be around to tell McCain what they think of Gitmo, the Military Commissions Act, and Abu Ghraib. They haven't forgotten what works, when it comes to interrogation methods:
"We did it with a certain amount of respect and justice," said John Gunther Dean, 81, who became a career Foreign Service officer and ambassador to Denmark.
The interrogators had standards that remain a source of pride and honor.
"During the many interrogations, I never laid hands on anyone," said George Frenkel, 87, of Kensington. "We extracted information in a battle of the wits. I'm proud to say I never compromised my humanity."
Sounds a lot different than the Gitmo translator's story of his service, doesn't it? Apparently the current crop of war planners have given up fighting a battle of wits along with their humanity.
Stop #2: the Center for Victims of Torture in Minneapolis. Tshenuwani Simon Farisani, a Lutheran clergy acquaintance of mine from South Africa was a guest at CVT back in the late 1980s, after having been tortured in the prisons of the apartheid regime because of his preaching. The CVT probably knows more than just about anyone about the effects of torture on both the victim and the perpetrator, the problems with the "information" produced by torture, and how to try to bring about healing in its aftermath. They, too, are not pleased that America's leaders have forgotten our historic stance in opposition to torture. When Bush vetoed the bill that would have required the CIA and other government interrogators to follow the limits of the U.S. Army Field Manual, CVT Executive Director Douglas A Johnson said this:
Our profound disappointment in the President’s failure to stand by American values is rooted in our more than 20 years of service to torture survivors. In providing care to courageous men and women from 67 countries, we have learned that the methods reportedly used by the CIA result in long-lasting health effects, serious pain, and unimaginable fear. We also know from our clients that persons being tortured will tell their torturer anything to end their suffering. Our nation’s military leaders recognize this fact; they warn that interrogation methods which employ torture and cruelty do not yield reliable information. Indeed, rather than bolstering our security, these policies place our soldiers at risk of the same treatment and discourage cooperation from our allies—cooperation that is key to a strong national defense. By allowing these gaps in our policy to persist, we weaken our national security and diminish our moral standing.
Defeating terrorists requires not only strength of arms but strength of character. Throughout our history, when facing forces intent on destroying us, our national conscience guided us; the broader values that we protected helped to shape our nation. We will continue the fight to honor those ideals by closing the gaps in our interrogation policy. We will not give up on establishing one national standard that proudly reflects the universal truths for which America stands.
As Marty Lederman reminds us, John McCain voted to support Bush's position.
Stop #3: the National Archives and its Rotunda for the Charters of Freedom. Here McCain can refresh his memory by taking a look at documents that define those "universal truths." From McCain's blind support of the Bush Administration's twisted logic of unchecked executive authority, it is apparent McCain has forgotten what is contained in them:
- The Magna Carta of 1297, with its proclamation of the Great Writ of habeas corpus.
- The Declaration of Independence, with its litany of abuses perpetrated on the American colonies by the British, including mock trials that fail to hold the British military accountable for their abuses.
- The document that starts "We, the People of the United States of America . . . " and its partner, the Bill of Rights.
Contrast these noble documents with what Glenn Greenwald described exactly two years ago tomorrow about the actions of the Bush Administration -- actions that McCain has enabled, time and time again:
The excesses and extremist conduct in which our government now engages has become so commonplace as to be mind-numbing. We detain U.S. citizens and stick them in military prisons with no trial, charges or even access to lawyers. We use torture as an interrogation tool. We use secret, off-the-book Soviet-era gulags that are beyond the reach of the law. We send people to the most repugnant governments to be tortured. And the President has expressly embraced the theory that he has the power to break the law.
There certainly appears to be no limits on what Bush followers will endorse in the name of fighting The Enemies, domestic ones included, sometimes most prominently. And what is so significant about this is that the institutions which previously existed as a safeguard against arbitrary punishment and abuse of power -- things like due process guarantees, Congressional oversight, an adversarial media, whistleblowers -- have all been steadily eroded. The administration has seized the power to arrest people without charges, hold them in secret prisons, use torture to interrogate them, etc. That is all out in the open and prompts defenses of these practices from its followers.
Followers, that is, like John "Four More Years of Bush" McCain.
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De-lurking to say, SO?
Thanks for the post Peterr. Keep at ‘em.
Great post! Thank you… Imagine that, treating other people–even our enemies–with “respect.”
You’re quite welcome.
Yeah. And his tour included a stop at a failing factory in Ohio to laud free trade… He seems to have an awful lot of synapses that are wired funny.
Peterr, excellent posting. Thanks.
Jane’s hosting a special Wednesday edition of the FDL Book Salon at noon FDL Time/3PM Eastern today with Cliff Schecter, author of The Real McCain: Why Conservatives Don’t Trust Him and Independents Shouldn’t. Should be quite something.
I can’t wait. I’m in the middle of his book now, and it’s a must-read.
Now that is would be really funny if it wasn’t so sad.
Great post, Peterr.
I believe that they unilaterally disarmed.
Ondelette has a new post connecting more dots on the torture revelations.
“that is would be”
going back for coffee now.
OT: With 99.07% of the district reporting, Hillary’s margin in the PA primary was 8.499%. I note that that’s less than 8.5% so that Obama supporters can feel comfortable rounding it downward to 8%. ;-)
Going back for coffee is almost always a good thing.
Never seems to help me with my typos, though, but YMMV.
Thanks for the link to the Center for Victims of Torture. It’s going to take quite a while to read through all the useful information at their site.
And less than the 10% which is all I’ve heard from the radio or the newspapers…
It was my handiest excuse :)
Right. And as a result of last night’s victory, to have a majority of the non-super delectates, Hillary must now will 71% of the remaining delegates, whereas before that “victory” she needed only 66%. Sigh!
Only slightly O/T, or maybe not, Marcy’s post this morning is a must read. Smashing.
I generally put it down to my ever-so-nimble brain being faster than my getting-ever-older fingers!
From Matt Stoller at OpenLeft:
Emphasis added.
This is not a good year to be a Republican incumbent, and John McCain is NOT going to help matters for them.
One of these days, they’ll be getting an award from the Nobel folks.
Thanks for the good news. I surely was needing some!
I like that take.
R+10, sounds like some sorta D&D magic cloak of repellant(R+10).
I am still bothered by that post from Lincoln Chaffee’s book on a thread from last night about Cheney and the Preznit’s grab for power in 2001, even before 9/11. What Chaffee writes almost (I say almost) lends creedence to the 9/11 conspiracy theorists, especially with the way all of bin Laden’s relative and high-ranking Saudi’s were moved out of the US and the hunt for bin Laden was never pursued.
Just sayin’. Putting McCrazy in the Oval Office even on a political longshot would allow four years (at least) of burying the dirt of the past eight years and we’d never get the truth.
Impeachment even at this late date is the only solution. Once they’re gone answers will never be forthcoming.
Yeah, will Stoller is a great guy and all but he and Bowers are delusional about Obama. The Magic Man will never beat McSame. He’s got three strikes against him that we know about: Wright…Rezko…and Auchi. Add to that Barry’s thin-skin and he’ll be gone the first month of the GE.
The Dead Loser Caucus will, if Barry gets the nod, have snatched defeat from victory once again. The only silver lining is that Barry will be unable to destroy the progressive brand from the Senate cloakroom where he’ll be crying on ‘The Last Honest Man’s’ shoulder.
Yes, take the time to read it. John Ascroft is a complete gutless weasel. The only thing missing from his statements is “I was only following orders.”
Good Morning PeterR and firedogs -
thank you for all your excellent linkage
am thinking McRib wore a garlic necklace while in the presence of those sacred documents
(waving to the progressive hotness in G’town )
I like this TRNN clip: Republican supports impeachment
IMHO, the shift in leadership in Paraguay will make Bush feel much more trapped, thereby increasing the chances of a very rude October Surprise. A president under-going impeachment has less freedom of action than one who is merely nearing his term limit. This nation should take advantage of that fact.
I looked for some video of the Fort Hunt interrogators speaking out against the BushCo approach to their old job, but couldn’t find any. If someone runs across some, put up a link and I’ll add it to the post.
Good morning to you, cbl.
Bruce Fein, like Ron Paul, is great on the matter of constitutional liberties. On matters of economic safety nets and universal healthcare, they’re not so great.
It’s awful, the more I use a computer, the sloppier I get!
I still think that is a good clip and that impeachment is the appropriate action.
I don’t know as I would want to back that rabid weasel into a corner. There’s no telling what he’s capable of. (Apologies to all rabid weasels everywhere…)
Which rabid weasel tho? There are too many!
The rabid-weasel-in-chief, W.
The thing that makes me saddest (and maddest) is that fucking Nancy Pelosi refuses, just blindly refuses to pursue impeachment even with a solid majority. As more and more dirt came to light, support would continue to grow and I think removal might become inevitable. Even if his term expired, the inquiry would uncover enough malfeasance for a trial here in the US or in the Hague.
McCain’s website says that tomorrow’s stop will be in Louisiana.
Maybe McCain can take Short Ride Joe with him, and Joe can hold a Senate Government Oversight committee hearing about Katrina/FEMA. It’s only been how long since Katrina?
maybe i’m just trying to find reason where there is none - but what is she going to impeach for that clinton didn’t do to a lesser degree?
I’m afraid that while Nancy has a solid majority in terms of votes to keep a Dem in the Speaker’s chair, she *doesn’t* have a solid majority that would back even opening a Judiciary Committee inquiry.
Can you say “Bush Dogs”? Sure you can . . .
I take her “off the table” remark as descriptive of the caucus, not necessarily her personal oath or her personal position on the matter. I didn’t always think this, but the more I dig into it, the more likely it seems to me.
Congress needs to do SOMETHING before Bush’s term expires and he gives blanket pardons to anyone and everyone in his administration. If these criminals are not held accountable then the Republic is indeed lost.
she doesn’t need a majority for that - and isn’t that supposed to be up to the committee to decide - not the speaker?
And the way the Dem elders have done buiness this term the next dem president will be impeached for some petty offense setting in stone the ever increasing secrecy and powers of the executive.
And I’ve never heard a satisfactory answer to “Why?” And why announce it ahead of time.
We saw how quickly the fat cats (some with apparent neocon leanings) jumped on her when she appeared to go against Hillary’s interests by saying that the Super Delegates shouldn’t steal the nomination, etc. Did they pull strings earlier to protect GWB?
Or is Congress (i.e., important incumbents) so fully implicated and compromised in Bush’s criminal behavior that they don’t want that box opened up?
I think so. And, I’ve read in at least one place that Pelosi has threatened to take away Conyers’s Chairmanship if he dares to open up an impeachment inquiry. But, of course, I have no way of confirming or refuting that.
that is why i don’t think pelosi is our ally. i don’t see how her actions are helping to move the country in a better direction.
Good point. I think both factor in, the latter carrying more weight.
thanks for mentioning the lincoln chaffee book excerpt. chilling.
here’s the link so no one else has to go searching (as i did)
Strictly speaking, yes. Practically speaking, no.
Part of the job of the speaker is to manage the legislative priorities and keep the various committee chairs moving, if not in harmony then at least without fighting one another. I’m just guessing — no little Capitol Hill birdies have been whispering in my ears — but I’d say that Nancy has been getting pressure from the Bush Dogs to leave this alone, or they (the Bush Dogs) will have a harder time supporting her on other issues that she/the progressives/the Dems as a whole want to get through the House. For some, this may be a way to threaten her; for others, it may be a sign of how they think they will be skewered in their reelection campaigns. Either way, they can make life much tougher on Nancy, and so I think she’s decided to fight other battles.
To those Bush Dogs, I’ve got a two word answer: John Tester.
Tester was vocal and out there in his opposition to BushCo, in the red state of Montana. Today the people of that state call him Senator, and many do so with pride.
Speaking of direction, the right-wing tool Rasmussen Reports (I won’t give a link because they are so despicable) are reporting this morning that 77% of the country believe we are on the wrong track. If the Dems are capable of anything this cycle, they should be able to achieve the White House and a filibuster-proof Senate. I just don’t see how starting impeachment proceedings now would hurt that. In fact, I think it would help a lot because of the details that could be uncovered between now and November.
I think that would be a better step than granting telco immunity.
.
amen Brother Stoller ! - and may I pile on ?? the way they’ve set this up, the hard core, mouth breathin’, in-denial crowd are the ones in charge (tee hee) the county Republic chair is the Mayberry Macchiavellian poster boy
meanwhile, their somewhat sane minions whiteknuckle the handbasket handles because they know this is their November.
ps, full disclosure: am total wuss and turn the volume off
“Rabid fascist” is the proper term. Having just passed the 1 year anniversary of Dad’s passing a WWII Vet, his words before he passed from throat cancer: “We Americans did not fight Nazi’s so George Bush could torture innocent people,” are so true. He partook in the Normandy landings, Battle of the Bulge and concentration camp liberation. The world and the “Silent Germans,” witnessed first hand the horror of the Nazi’s final solution as they gathered the decaying bodied of dead humans of Jewish faith for burial at the death camps. George Bush is a fascist. Using the events of 911 the fascist neocons launched the “Iraq Blitzkrieg” as sure as Hitler invaded Poland on the fabricated “Gleiwitz Incident.” to protect the Homeland. Hitler sure as hell protected the homeland?????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident
http://emptywheel.firedoglake....../snowball/
Exposing warts while connecting dots. Life Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness in the hands of oil speculators?????? DUMB!!
In PA:
Hillary has lost the battle of non-super delegates. Before here 8.5% victory last night, she needed to win 66% of the remaining non-super delegates. Now she need to win 71% of those still remaining.
So, like the ever resourceful GWB, she’ll shift to a new definition of victory, specifically to popular vote. As you can see she gained 216,000 in her total, which was about a third of Obama’s lead (leaving aside FL and MI). Popular vote could get to be a very interesting metric, so it’ll now be the one that the MSM will focus on, of course.
Oh, I don’t know, let’s start with moving $700 million dollars without Congressional authorization from Afghanistan to the Iraq war effort… abrogating international treaties (which have the force of federal law, I believe) unilaterally (the quaint Geneva Convention) and torture among other things. Clinton’s perjury was purely a “gotcha” generated by folks like the same Richard Mellon Scaife HRC was pandering to in PA…
EW rules……………..
http://emptywheel.firedoglake......t-torture/
that reminds me…. seems fisa is back on the table.
i posted this yesterday in a thread a emptywheel:
the Senate Intelligence Committee has a hearing scheduled for next week on FISA.
The issue is the “Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008″ and the pdf is posted on the committee’s website (see link above). Check out section 4 - it’s all about FISA. Apparently this administration hasn’t given up on getting what they want.
Mod note:
“selise writes in to say she is a blind idiot and sincerely apologies for posting this incorrect information”
Constitutional Usurpation under the color of law by “corporate aristocrats” enabled by the gas we buy out of necessity! Jefferson warned us all!
Link?
Thanks, sorry for forgetting the linky. I am a bad fish… :P
i was referring to, for example, clinton’s policy of extraordinary rendition (where people were kidnapped and taken to egypt to be tortured and/or executed).
I think that your use of the term “fascism” is exactly correct. IMHO,
and we have both “corporatism and imperialism running rampant in this administration.
And this excerpt from Lincoln Chaffee’s book makes it clear that this administration came to office determined to establish a Fourth Reich.
Morning Peterr and all,
Nancy’s stand to me would be like the chief of my fire department pulling up to my burning house and proclaiming there’s not much chance of saving her so wasting my equipment ,which being the finest you could have provided us , and manpower , cause can’t you see how effective we are at putting out brush fires, if we don’t waste time trying to save your house. Nancy is a traitor to the constitution which she swore to uphold but she’s one among our many representatives who’s sold the country to the highest bidder.
Republican voters vote for selfishness and greed for themselves..however Dems vote for the future of the people that follow after. It sets us apart as political parties. Leaving the future of America and the globe in the hands of Republicans would creat such a dire future that in the end could be irreversible. Now is the time to destroy the Republican Party and any pols that mimic them.
yeah, but they didn’t impeach him for that. I would have probably supported an inquiry into that practice even by a Democrat… it shocks the conscience and defiles the Republic as a whole.
Aack. Thanks for that, I think. It really is going to be “whack-a-mole” all the way through January, 2009, isn’t it?
it didn’t come out while he was president, only later. but sometimes i wonder if that’s not what keeps impeachment off the table. are the Rs and the Ds practicing MAD?
Oops: http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/
Note that these numbers have changed slightly in the past hour, so that last I looked the margin was slightly over 8.5%.
and beyond.
Check out FDR’s definition of fascist??? If the glove does “fit you cannot acquit!
“Fits” well……… doesn’t it!!!
IMHO, she is also a war criminal, in the sense of the Yamashita Standard, for blocking the only avenue we have for preventing Bush from committing further war crimes and for bringing him to justice.
Cool, Thanks. What is amazing to me is that over 15% of the GOP voted for Ron Paul. I imagine primarily because of his anti-war stance. I would hope that these folks would migrate to the Dem candidate in the General. That would more than make up for the 15% of Hillary supporters who state they will vote for McCain over Obama!
Do you happen to have a link handy?
I don’t know, but while MAD was certainly not on the minds of the men who framed the constitution, it’s certainly a possibility. That raises the question then: at what level does and act or deed rise to the standard of impeachment?
Political courage is required in the face of adversity, and that seems to be sadly lacking in the current crop of “leaders” we have sitting around collecting paychecks now. I don’t know how many other republicans in either house of congress are harboring similar stories and emotions about the current administration, but with the opening of an inquiry they might be emboldened to speak out as the evidence mounted.
More like “whack a whole town of gophers” — there’s more than one head that needs to be whacked, and plenty of holes that they keep popping out of.
Paul’s supporters are generally very young and idealistic. Most are committed libertarians. We have common cause with them on
– consitutional liberties and rule of law
– foreign policy
Unfortunately, we part ways on matters of economics and social welfare.
IMHO, we’ll get a few of them for Obama, because of their disgust with Bush/McCain Republicanism. But the majority will simply sit this election out, and try again next time.
Not holes, sewers. Fetid, festering disease-ridden sewers.
Sorry for that imagery if you’re eating breakfast.
Good eye! Along with expanding executive overreach IRT FISA it includes this:
What about before September 11th or doesn’t that jive with the “offical” narrative?
For some like Cheney this is all about money. For McCain it is more about ego. He is in competition with his wife rather than his father like Bush is. She’s got the money, he wants the power. He wants to be a bigger prick than she is.
Kinda OT
“These days, Sen. Joe Lieberman — one of the most decent and temperate men in Washington — apparently is playing the role of McCain’s fire marshal.” (my bold)
Good morning, all. I thought everybody could use a good laugh to start their day. Who knew Michael Gerson wrote comedy?!
From this mornings WaPo…(sorry, no linkythingy, you’ll have to find it yourself. I won’t contribute to his traffic.)
I’m sorry but Chafee is a moral coward -
‘well I was just laying there and the trains that Cheney made to run on time rolled over me’
he waits almost 8 years - am so sick of those who knew better now desperate to salvage some legacy of decency for themselves -
Morning all,
Another former admin weasel, Christine Whitman, slips thru the cracks.
Christie Whitman, at least, can breathe easy.
An appeals court ruled Tuesday that the former EPA chief can’t be punished for falsely telling New Yorkers the air near Ground Zero was safe after 9/11.
Even though thousands were sickened by toxic dust, the federal judges decided Whitman isn’t personally liable for inaccurate reassurances she gave to the public.
LINK
sorry, i can’t do quote yet.
It’s always seemed to me that Bush and Cheney were jealous of Saddam Hussein. He had, and was, everything they want and want to be, seems like.
His narrative is interesting, but in the long run… bingo! Moral Coward! As I read that, I was thinking, ah.. so this is what happened to Jim Jeffords. Now, as to why some of the remaining “moderates” have not come over even after 2006 or become “independents” (not of the short-ride Joe variety) I am puzzled.
saw it on monday while i was putting together this week’s list. figured we could all use the time to prepare (i sent a head’s up email to glenn, marcy and christy).
Jefferson:
“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation,. the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people.”
Jefferson’s was even more fearful and forewarned of a “rising corporate aristocracy,” enabled by the legal entity known as the “corporations,” in which said aristocracy would work perpetually using the color of law to usurp constitutional checks and balances, in the quest for endless profit!
That stellar consitutional scholar, Ann Coulter, has written a whole book on the subject. Long story short: “high crimes and misdemeanors” includes bad “demeanor,” which includes blowjobs in the Oval Office. Any questions?
Jefferson’s warnings are right on point today!
In this day and age there would be a double hanging. Jesus and Jefferson. Damn radicals.
and now they’ve pretty much done that imo……
IIRC, you have a lot of well-deserved credibility with Glenn. ;-)
Thomas Jefferson - in his first message to Congress 12/8/1801 -
.
Obama will need the protection of the “American People,” the governed should he become president I fear!!!
Thank you VERY much. Do you happen to have a link to that fine stuff?
I would hardly classify that noxious woman as Miss Demeanor. More like an Aggravated Assault on reason.
Quotes are a piece of cake.
(1) Open the item you want to quote in a second tab/window.
(2) Copy the text you want to quote into your browser’s clipboard (ctl-C)
(3) Go back to the “leave your response” box at FDL.
(4) Put your cursor where you want to insert the quote, and hit the little button that looks like upside-down double quotes. This will put the html blockquote tags into place.
(5) Put your cursor between the blockquote and /blockquote tags, and paste in the quote you copied at step two.
(6) Hit Preview, to make sure it worked.
(7) Hit “submit comment” and you’re done!
Have fun!
It is time for America to embrace our founders and the wisdoms they offered as “Enlightened Men.” Products of the “Age of Reason,” unlike the current silver spooned….protruding from arse fascists!!!
Agreed. But even a moral coward can be an excellent informant.
no one was more surprised by that than me. but maybe that means he will read my email. if i don’t hear back from him though, i’ll put it as an OT in his comments, because i know he reads those.