Cliff welcome to the Lake.

Welcome, Cliff!

Hi

Hi Cliff! Good to see you here!

Welcome Cliff!

Thanks for doing all the heavy lifting.

Hi, Cliff. Reading the book now. Well done!

Cliff, you trollop!

Thanks so much guys. It’s great to be here! And thanks Jane for that way-too-kind introduction.

Only my wife gets to call me a trollop!

Watching that YouTube, and the “if I lose the capacity to be angry, I don’t think I should be president” smarmy tone there at the end…too amusing. And utterly unconvincing, especially in light of all the backtracking they’ve had to do since that interview. *g*

Welcome, Cliff. Good to see you!

Thanks for spending time with us today Cliff.

Although come to think of it, I do plaster on the makeup a bit much at times…

Is Mrs. McCain the “c” word?

Thanks for all the welcomes guys, so, what do you want to know about Senator Angry-Pants?

Thank you, Mr. Schecter, for supplying us with the tons of useful information in your book. I’ve got two copies, one for me to highlight, and one to lend out to people who still think he’s a “maverick.” Great work.

You can pay me later.

Is it true that McCain is actually more stupid than GW Bush?

Cliff, for the last few weeks some folks here at the lake have picked up on the information about McCain being a “traitor” to his fellow POW’s while in captivity. I am a Vietnam Vet and was a member of the VVAW in the early 70’s. I know that Ted Sampley is part of the group that puts out this crap and I am wondering what your take is? In my opinion there is plenty of ammo to go after John with without resorting to this swiftboat style attack. Can you shed any light?

Well not in my world. I don’t use that word or my wife sends me to sleep under a bridge tonight. As should be the case.

By all accounts she seems to be a nice woman married to a not-so-nice man.

How the hell did you get those people to spill that now-notorious quote?

Cash or check?

McCain lies. Bush lies. They have alot in common. Besides playing footies with Joe Liarman.

Thanks for coming, Cliff! What I’ve read of the book so far exceeds expectations — it really should shake up the media narrative about St. John. I trust you’re booking cable appearances now …

Cliff, do you think any of your sources will come forward on the “c-word” story?

few dare use that word- Jane is among the courageous from time to time..

Interesting why one can’t say it- but one can’t.

Thank you Cliff.
I love calm, tenacious, stick to the truth peoples.
The truth can set us free, only if we get out of the way and let it be heard.
Thank you Jane for focusing on who the Real Opponents are.
You are one of a kind. Did I say I love tenacious?

McCain has the same lack of understanding of policy nuance as Bush. He doesn’t get, or care to understand economic policy. He obviously doesn’t understand the differences between Sunnis and Shia. He graduated third from the bottom of his class at the Naval Academy.

So maybe not quite as dumb, but in the same league. I like to call him “George W. Bush who could finish reading My Pet Goat.”

Cliff, I bought your book, because Jane told asked me to. It was nice to see her mentioned in your acknowledgments.

As per usual, she really nailed it here:

Cliff is that rare breed of progressive who has the natural charisma and forthright manner such that he’s always on offense and never loses his cool. He’s one of the only people we have with the media skills to handle himself on Fox without getting pwnd.

Welcome to FDL.

Hello, Cliff Schecter, and thanks for writing this wonderful book. I’m about two-thirds of the way through (highlighting slows me down!) and I want you to give away the ending, please: Is there any principle, any belief, any core that McCain has not compromised?

Is there anything he hasn’t flip-flopped on?

I really appreciate your terrific book. I know lots of us will use it this year to define the real McCain.

Hey David,

We’re trying. It is hard when so many in the cable media world love McCain. And the ongoing primary is making it tougher too. But because of all the great people out there who have helped this book sell at Amazon, we are talking to some folks. I expect tv will happen soon.

In the meantime it is the Internets and radio. And that’s cool too…

Thank you for buying it. And Jane deserved mention. She has been a great force for all of us in general, and in particular for those of us who try and make a career in this crazy business :)

how big is your backyard? Can you host a barbecue?

Hi Clif, and welcome (and thanks!) –

I have not yet received your book. Anecdotally, (oh, hell, this is such an LA angle) the woman who cuts my hair says someone she knows says that McCain is an insane driver – which, from my experience, goes to the anger issue…

I actually think the “c-word” story only works as part of a narrative – not that he has a temper, but that he is unable, at times, to physically control himself. I mean, I’ve gotten pissed at people at work, but never once have I come close to anything physical.

Yeah, I have always had the impression that Bush really hates intellectuals and pedants and views thinking and reading as wastes of time; and it’s a peculiar disdain that only those born to wealth have. McCain doesn’t seem to have that attitude — rather, I get the feeling he’s just a dim bulb.

Hi Christy,

Yeah, I love how pork barrel spending is a defense for attacking Renzi. Anyone see the connection? He is just spinning obviously. But there are way too many stories out there beyond what I found. And I am going to keep digging. The temper issue is NOT going away.

I’m gonna go with McCain’s temper flared in the wrong direction one too many times, and a group of hometown news folks had a grudge to settle. We have relatives who live in AZ, and there is not a lot of love lost for McCain in those parts among a whole host of people who used to support him, let me tell you. You can call him “Sen. Burns Way Too Many Bridges.”

Actually, I don’t think I have ever heard Jane use that word. Lots of other ones, but not that one — we have that in common, we girlies.

Wow, just what I’d look for in a President. A guy who excels at burning bridges.

[runs screaming out of the room]

That is the way I see it Raven. Look, the man went to Vietnam, whatever your opinion of that war. So I am not going to question him and don’t in the book, on those issues. My focus is his personal and professional hypocrisy, in how he flip-flops, moralizes and generally abuses his power.

We can beat him if we point out who he is politically. And that he shouldn’t be lecturing us on personal behavior. Hearing from John McCain about abstinence is like having Gary Busey lecture me about drunk driving

Cliff, I’m loving your book (despite the often sad and infuriating facts I’m learning there)….

and really loved the Senate’s use of “McCain” for a type of footwear…

Republicans: good for burning bridges and letting bridges collapse.

Seems as if maybe she used it in a post a long while back that caused a stir, but I may be misremembering.

Thanks

Cliff – what about Mrs. McCain Number One? What happened to her? What does she do? $17,700 annual alimony doesn’t go very far.

That is exactly right. He was called McNasty in high school. The story I broke on his fight with Rick Renzi began with his calling him “boy.” You brought up the wife story.

He likes abusing people. Being nasty to people. It is a part of who his is, a sadist, and the temper is only part of it.

Hi Cliff, thanks for being here.

Here’s my question, because the MSM seems to be in the tank for McCain, do you see the possibility of his temper somehow being spun as “good” for a McCain Presidency? You know, given the maverick image and all that crap.

btw, I hate ribs.

Ahh, the famous McCain flip-flops. I did enjoy learning about that one :)

Velcro Cliff: Is there a single issue that makes McCain the most vulnerable now? The book makes this guy sound like a federal disaster area of a person….

We can beat him if we point out who he is politically.

and if we can get the media to put down the chili dogs and actually report it.

how do you account for the whole “the media is my base” phenomenon?

Hi Cliff and thank you for your important work in exposing this corrupt man.

Do you have any insight as to why he would continue to embrace the very man who dragged down his daughter and Max Cleland?

Is it all about winning at any cost and that he really has NO moral compass or something else entirely?

Cliff, I am so grateful that you and your work have prompted MSM to raise the issue of his temper (of course, after he’s been cowing the boys and girls on the bus with the implict threat of another rage attack, one can see why the editors would be a bit timorous).

Thanks so much Marion. I appreciate that! I make the pitch to people that it’s only $10! And for that, we can get these stories out there!!

Haven’t read the book Cliff, do you cover any of the Abramoff hearing he chaired in the Senate Select Committee on Indian Affairs? If you did, what do you think he has hidden way from the public by withholding some of the info that came to the comittee?

Jane Fonda uses it. On teevee.

Welcome Cliff !

Cliff is that rare breed of progressive who has the natural charisma and forthright manner such that he’s always on offense and never loses his cool.

am mad for Cliff – taking out the faceless whitebread gooper boy – not just bec someone was representing our side but doing it so artfully and with the most deliciously wicked grin – he was enjoying it – coulda sworn I saw you pick your teeth with his bones:D

and now the McCain book – thanks so much!

Okay, if we all agree that John McCain would be bad, ie. four or more years of the same twisted, wrong policies, how can we unite behind a candidate to defeat him in November?
How?
Headliners say Stop That, Mods say Please stop that when people spin off in the wrong direction.
How can we move forward?
Cliff is spreading the good word.
If people would just listen. And, do the right thing.

He has been courting them for years. Also remember many of the “Neos” are in the media (Bill Kristol, David Brooks, etc.). Many also salivate over his service and “courage,” because they grew up watching John Wayne movies (see Glenn Greenwald’s book) and they so want to be someone like McCain in Nam

Cliff, Do you think that editors should avoid hooking reporters up with a specific campaign for a long period of time? It would seem to make the reporter more likely to print nice things in hopes of getting more stories. Why not rotate em weekly?

Welcome, Cliff. Thanks, Jane.

Cliff –

For all their selfrighteous purity Repugs surely have filthy mouths. It seems to be their forte. Trollop is something I’ve never heard a man use towards a woman and I’m around a lot of Liberals. The c..t word is beyond my imagination. McShame and I just travel is different circles. But Rebugs don’t seem to mind. Why is that?

Yes, I do go into how he protected his fellow Senators in a whole chapter in the real McCain (actually two) on how the reformer myth is just that. Lobbyists are only part of the story (and Christy has done a great job on that!), but he has many ties to many corrupt people, much closer than Obama and Ayers…

McCain’s nicknames aren’t even as creatively cruel as Junja’s. I mean, really, how smart do you need to be to call Lindsey Graham a “little jerk?”

Do you have any sense, Cliff, of which stories particularly rankle McCain? Presumably he’s worked out answers for some of them (”Didn’t happen” leads the pack for now….) but are there things that bug him a lot? I’d like to see him asked if he’s a kept man, but I’m not sure how to get his base to ask that question.

Things that go to his manhood, I’d guess.

Maybe “pilot crash an burn”?

This is exactly right. The media sources who spoke to me are still there (3 of the 4 are) and are scared for their jobs. I understand why. A major European newspaper was going to write a piece on my book and the McCain people called and threatened. Called me a liar and “unstable” (that is funny, isn’t it, McCain’s calling someone else “unstable”) and bullied them into not reporting on my book.

There are many who know these stories. But they are only willing to speak off the record. Because McCain will destroy them otherwise…

Sounds worth reading (your book I mean) guess I’m gonna have to cough up some more cash.

There are many who know these stories. But they are only willing to speak off the record. Because McCain will destroy them otherwise…

But I’m sure that will all change if he becomes President.

I’m with the questioner upthread who’s wondering about Wife #1. She says it’s all hunky-dory, but living with a disability on an alimony check isn’t the life she waited seven years for, even if she did get the house.

This is the kind of thing that shakes a lot of middle-class women to their bones. It’s not what a stand-up guy does — and McCain’s whole image is built on being a stand-up guy.

Straight out of the Rove playbook.

Yeah, he defninitely has convinced himself that his image is reality. So questioning whether he’s a reformer, or corrupt, or tempermental, etc., personality-based questions that go against the CV, that will set him off.

Like when that reporter recently asked about his approaching Kerry to join the ticket in 2004. He lost it on that, because he has to be a “Reagan Republican” now…

Cliff
Also liked your article in Campaign for America’s Future yesterday. It’s nice to see it pointed out that McCain’s health care has been taken care for 7 decades by taxpayer dollars. That should be a good Dem talking point.

Don’t worry. Only $10 at Amazon. C’mon, the price of a beer in New York or a home in Oklahoma! :)..

Ok, ok, I bought the book. Man that one-click shopping is dangerous.

When are you going on television again? You’re great on tv.

McCain is not a “stand up guy” – McCain is cut out of the same bolt of cloth as Gingrich and Giuliani — family values are all well and good until you get bored…or a bigger meal ticket is available.

I agree. Look, when politicians lecture the rest of us about our personal lives, theirs become fair game. He cheated on his first wife with Cindy, left her for Cindy (after she took care of the kids for 5 years while he was in Hanoi and she suffered a car crash), and married Cindy six weeks after he left his first wife.

This is a story that many Americans who vote on “values” need to know about McCain…

I assumed the anger issues were some form of PTSD from being a POW. I guess it’s a character flaw. That’s worse.

there was an interesting discussion over at Eschaton yesterday about his getting full disability status while fully employed as a U.S. Senator.

OK Ten bucks isn’t bad. I think the last one of these book discussions cost me 17.

John McCain has said he gets righteously angry when he sees people “behaving badly”.

Where will he send U.S. troops first — Iran or San Francisco?

Thanks so much. As I think I said earlier, the primary has sucked some of the oxygen from the McCain stories. But it will be soon. Possibly a major station as soon as this weekend. But many irons in the fire on this…

And thanks for the compliment!

Hi, Cliff!

Would be great if you could share some of the info from your book on McCain’s sorry record on jobs/economy.

And welcome!

Tula

Why do you say that if people speak out that McCain will destroy them? I realize that he belongs to the “most exclusive club in the world” but what can he actually do to people or reporters, especially since most don’t seem to like him.

or a bigger meal ticket is available.

Definitely based on meal ticket and a fresh new slab of meat.

Yes it is worse, as it has been going on his whole life. The PTSD could have made it worse still, but he has always been this way…

Great to see you here Cliff – and what a book!

Six weeks- Wow- that’s quick. How’d he get unhitched so fast? What was the big hurry?

Abramoff hearings -

I don’t have the book yet – but believe along with the outbursts is the mo of retribution and threats to ‘destroy’ his perceived enemies – right ?

also believe McCain does nothing that isn’t self serving so I don’t believe any of the greatest friend of native americans tripe -

okay – so were those hearings about destroying Abramoff or some Abramoff flunky ??? just wondering if somehow Jack pissed him off and how – did he make him sit next to the kitchen at Signatures ?

Great. The very last thing we need now is another petulant hothead in the White House.

Hi Tula,

Well as you certainly know, McCain’s plan, plain and simple, is to continue Bushenomics. You know, corporate tax rates cut from 35% to 25%, because Exxon might make a shade under $8 billion next quarter.

His economic advisor, Phil Gramm, is someone who bears much responsibility in the housing crisis, as he literally was an extension of the banking industry in Congress. McCain also voted to eliminate the minimum wage and against SCHIP.

Heartless, economically unsound and WRONG.

Thanks so much Siun! And great to be here of course. It’s very comfortable here. I hope to have more time to come around in the near future :)

Do you know why Vicki Iseman hasn’t been interviewed, or even surfaced?

Well, he’s just announced that he’s going to wage war on poverty.

Exactly. He is petulant, uninterested in policy, stubborn and in bed with lobbyists and other corporate types. Remind you of another president?

For the CEO who only makes $925K to get up over a million!

Now that would be wonderful … fingers crossed!

OK

I ordered the book

Dont give away the end ok

Hi Cliff,

Thanks for all your hard work. We need more progressives who don’t flinch.

Has McCain ever been asked about if he believes the official government account of the 9/11 attacks? How do you suppose this line of questioning would effect the race for presidency? Will McCain, if elected, insist on seeing the pentagon footage from the attacks?

With respect and kindness.

righteously angry

Now where did he hear that expression? I know it as an old expression among non-violent groups used when prisoners are abused, war is declared, anti-personnel weapons of mass destruction are dropped on villagers burning their skin off their body. It is not a term that is an excuse for DOING violence towards anyone.

The Abramoff hearings, like everything else McCain does, was self-interest and revenge (he went after Ralph Reed and Grover Norquist, two long time rivals).

That describes McCain in a nutshell. Everything he does includes political ambition and vengeance. They sometimes are combined, and only when they clash, does the former take a backseat to the latter (see his relationship with George W. Bush or the late Jerry Falwell).

Just emailed Bill Moyers recommending he read Cliff’s book and invite him on his superb PBS show. Hope that may materialize. ;~)

Great question. I assume she is down with the team, and doesn’t want to lose her lavish lifestyle. Why would she give it all up, she has already sold her soul to help the worst corporate offenders..

Cliff, I haven’t read the book (it’s in transit) – do you go into the whole Keating Five scandal?

Cliff, what fascinates me is how sensible McCain sounded in 1990 WRT getting and staying out of Iraq. Contrast that with his attitude now.

Thanks so much! I would love to do Moyers show. Big fan…

I remember that bmaz from out in Arizona said of McCain that those who knew him thought he was “dense as a post.” McCain has been in the Senate for 21 years how is it that the media have failed to notice this? I mean we are talking 2 decades here.

This is very disturbing. Of course, if you publicize the fact that the McCain people are killing the book behind the scenes, they’ll just paint you as a paranoid …

Hi Cliff! Great freakin name!!!

Good question. Don’t count out the DC area. He can go after Dupont Circle, Northern VA and get two for the price of one. And he can be lazy. And not go that far away from home.

Isn’t McCain late on releasing his medical records?

and let’s not forget those socialists over at Barron’s refer to Phil Gramm as Mr. Enron – yikes

Thanks, Cliff:

It’s hard to see how he can be creeping up in the polls with lines like this:

“Listen, I understand economics,” he said. “One reason is
because they are really based on fundamental values and
philosophy.”

Not to mention his die-hard support of NAFTA. Your book is a great contribution to getting out the truth about the REAL McCAIN to the many who hear nothing but the panting of Timmie et al., over his supposed Maverick mien.

Cliff -

Will McShame make a comment on the great noble stone face, General Petraeus, a four star general, becoming Central Command chief? His plan is to stay the course because it is working, at least that’s what P says.

Guess that will show truth teller former Central Command chief, Adm. William Fallon. There will be none of that truth nonsense out of P.

Yes, they have tried that too David. I know of at least one cable show that WILL NOT have me on because McCain has threatened access. I can only do what I can. If he thinks he can get rid of me that easily, well, too bad he doesn’t know me very well. Every time he convinces a paper not to write about this book or not have me on tv, I am that much more motivated to come to places like this one, and make sure people know the truth. We have many months ahead of us. And I ain’t going nowhere Mr. McCain….

Perhaps that’s one reason to point out that he is America’s only ‘Reverse Ace’ having lost five planes during his time of service. Only one from enemy fire.

A notable achievement.

His fellow naval aviators called him ‘Ace’ behind his back as he was NOT well liked by them.

Ding, Ding, Ding. I for one would really love to see his medical records – those shaky hands of his are rather interesting.

What does that even mean?

Yes, another area they have fudged and we all have to wait for a more accurate account…

It would be great if our people, when on teevee, would respond to every mention of “maverick” with “if by maverick you mean flip-flopper.” Sadly, fewer of our people seem to get on the right side of a teevee camera lately.

It’s because he’s THE REAL MCCAIN! Seems like Walter Brennan could play him.

That is rather impressive. I wonder how many Bush lost during his dreams while in the beer-soaked back alleys of Alabama?

Great idea! Will do it when I get on.

I just ordered your book.
What a treat! Thanks for writing it, and being here.

I missed this earlier. Thanks so much for the kind compliment :)

McCain recently revealed he uses the drug Claritin. Here is a short excerpt of potential known side effects. Is this the finger we want on the button? What meds are Hillary and Obama on?

Psychiatric: agitation, amnesia, anxiety, confusion, decreased libido, depression, impaired concentration, insomnia, irritability, paroniria.

He likes abusing people. Being nasty to people. It is a part of who his is, a sadist, and the temper is only part of it.

Cliff, I hope you’ll foregive the blogwhoring (hey, at least it’s our blog), but as a brain doc I see the following pattern:

Multiple published observations describe Sen McCain as possessing/demonstrating:

* a) affective lability (medicalese for widely varying moods)
* b) poor impulse control (medicalese for adults with a penchant for throwing tanturms/provoking altercations/dropping trou)
* c) repeated intrusive traumatic ideation (often refers to POW experience – describes same in [understandably] strong emotional terms.)
* d) impaired attention/concentration (reports scant comprehension of US economy despite six years in House and sixteen years in Senate).
* e) impaired judgment ( Keating Five; Vicki Iseman; early naval aviation career).
* f) frequent irritability (medicalese for “acting like an asshole”)

To me the pattern screams out “impaired neuronal function” – with resulting deficits in impulse control and cognition.

Lots of McCain’s brothers in arms have concluded the pattern is so severe as to render him unfit for command.

Sadly for McCain, he’s been exposed to numerous factors known to impair brain function:

- chronic ethanol abuse / frequent “binge drinking”

- multiple severe blows to the head…over years (as a boxer, he had “no reverse” gear)

- torture; severe stress sufficient to generate PTSD

- treatment for recurrent malignant melanoma of the head and neck (prolonged anesthesia required for crevical node dissection in his most recent [known] surgery for recurrent melanoma; chemo [if any]; and radiation [if any] are all known risk factors for cognitive impairment.)

Oh – and being in the eighth (going on ninth) decade.

How do think the MSM can best be drawn to look at all of these independent lines of evidence suggestig multiple causes and multiple manifestations of brain dysfunction leading to behavioral instability and cognitive impairment in this elderly candidate for Chief Executive?

To me, the MSM seem to be losing (or ignoring) the progressively severe deficits in impulse control, affective regualtion, and cognition in this near-80 year old man as they timidly point out isolated incidents of dysfunction in his past – and then conclude he’s just the same scrappy McCain he’s always been.

While the MSM seem to just grin about it (recent WaPo article an exception) in actuality McCain appears to be an elderly man who is – sadly – showing cognitive and behavioral symptoms consistent with the onset of dementia…. all superimposed upon a lifetime of impaired capacity for emotional (and hence physical) self-regulation.

[Some days I feel like the little boy watching the naked Emperor, but maybe that’s just too many years of the Bushies’ reign.]

Dunno. Maybe check the Internets.

Bush, the Sequel.

Also missed this one earlier – I can’t find a core, perhaps his love for big business has been consistent. But on taxes, social issues, foreign policy, etc., he has flip-flopped on all numerous times now. No real core that I can find…

Words don’t have to mean things.
Where have you been for the last 7 years?!

Oh, no. Do we REALLY want to go there?

decreased libido

Isn’t that now a requirement for President?

Hi Beau,

I know you from somewhere….I would say the economy overall can be a killer. He has flip-flopped on taxes, and can be hammered on that. He is in with Mr. Gramm the bank lover, not good in time when housing is having these problems. And then there is the cost of his war. That is killing the economy, except for your friendly profiteers. So all of these can be used for the greater narrative on his “not understanding” the economy. Which is the reality of the situation

[chastened]

Cliff -

Cindy rides on everyone else’s shirt tail so do you suppose she is setting herself up to run for Prsident once he croaks (or is on life support)? It seems to be the new dynasty trend.

Cliff – Do you believe the gov’t account of 9/11 as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

Yes I do. The whole mess. And how he has done almost the exact same thing since (see the Iseman story, but others too)..

Cliff, RE: threatening people’s jobs if they report honestly (or at all) on your book –

That’s like what happened to the last person who tried to write a tell-all about McCain, isn’t it?

bet Jon Stewart and The Daily Show staff aren’t subject to his intimidation or should I say intimmehdation

have to go – ^#%!(@!

from you and the media matters book on McCain and the Media – it really boils down to their own vanity – that he would spend time with them, pay attention to them is enough for them to shirk their responsibilities – and all this pulling our hair out waiting for some complicated drawn out explanation of the behavior – oy

there is no core – bet Cliff points out he only pulls that maverick – go against the party shit when it’s perfectly safe

Thanks again for stopping by Cliff !

Actually from what I know she was against this. But he wanted it. They have some things they need to work out in their marriage. And the presidency isn’t going to help it, if that happens, God help us all…

We’ve had some discussion over whether or not to bring up McCain’s age as an issue.

Looking at Kirk’s comment at 122, I think I’ve got the phrase that makes the point, in a nice way:

“It’s not the years. It’s the mileage.”

McCain is very high-mileage, even for his years.

To me the pattern screams out “impaired neuronal function” – with resulting deficits in impulse control and cognition.

To me it screams out asshole. *g*

That has happened to a variety of people. He refused to talk to his hometown newspaper, the Arizona Republic, for a number of years because they dared criticize him. It is his modus operandi…

Hmmm. And should we then assume that, as a result of this freeze-out, certain people at the AZ Republic felt no qualms at all about talking to you?

What goes around….

Look, it may not be PC, but it is honestly something that needs to be discussed. He has to be up to the job. It is a big job. We had someone who wasn’t the past 8 years. It hasn’t worked out so well.

So I agree with you entirely. This must be broached. But dont’ look to many in the media to do so..

In a lot of ways McCain is an empty suit in the tradition of Ronald Reagan and George Bush. Why then do so many on the right dislike and distrust him?

I wonder if the Washington Post was pressured not to credit your story about McCain and Renzi. Their phrase “reports recently surfaced” is, in its passivity, very Pravda.

Has anyone had a chance to ask Renzi about the story since your book came out? I know he’s sorta busy meeting with his lawyers….

and given the way the job ages a person 20 years younger than he…

For some reporters around the country, this was a catharsis. They could tell me things they were scared to report with their names attached. But then again, I have many brave folks in my book, many Republicans in addition to Dems/Indies, who speak out.

The McCain people want to make it seem like the book is not a compendium on his career, with something like 250 footnotes….My apologies to them for reporting the truth..

Cliff, I think putting it in terms of mileage — as Kirk does — is far more effective than putting it in terms of years, which a lot of voters will find offensive.

He’s not old. He’s worn-out and damaged. Puts a whole other frame around it.

His vindictiveness probably hasn’t helped his embrace-ability!

FunnyDiva

Because he is always morally superior, which pisses them off like it does us (although they are hypocrites about it). When he opposes them, he questions their judgment, patriotism, etc. too. He is always right. If you’re on the other side, your’re suspect. So when someone like Olympia Snowe disagrees, she doesn’t make a big speech about it attacking those she opposes. He does.

Calls have been made and unreturned to Renzi

That would certainly be another way of looking at it :)

Ah, yes — Reverse Ace Johnny:

Robert Timberg, author of The Nightingale’s Song, a book about Annapolis graduates and their tours in Vietnam, wrote that McCain “learned to fly at Pensacola, though his performance was below par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn’t love it.” Timberg counts himself a friend of McCain and has written a McCain biography.

It wasn’t long after arriving in Pensacola that McCain racked up the first of his five crashes, beginning in 1958, on his way to becoming a “reverse ace.” As told by Timberg, “McCain was practicing landings; his engine quit and he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay. Knocked unconscious by the impact, he came to as the plane settled to the bottom.”

There was, however, no engine failure with the aircraft. According to one of McCain’s former flight instructors, “The engine was removed from the aircraft that afternoon, mounted on a test stand and a new propeller installed. [It] was flushed with fresh water and started. It ran just fine. So the theory of engine failure was proven false.”

The instructor added that McCain was “positively one of the weakest students to pass our way, and received consistently poor marks and a number of Dangerous Down grades assigned by more than one instructor. He had no real ability and was clearly out of his element in an airplane, and way over his head even as a junior naval officer.”

The second of McCain’s crashes occurred while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. “Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula,” reports Timberg, “he took out some power lines [reminiscent of the 1998 incident in which a Marine Corps jet sliced through the cables of a gondola at an Italian ski resort, killing 20] which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral.”

Crash three occurred when McCain was returning from flying a trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game. According to Timberg, McCain radioed, “I’ve got a flameout.” He went through the standard relight procedures three times. At one thousand feet, he ejected, landing on the deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees.”

By 1967, McCain was ready for battle and assigned to the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk pilot. While seated in the cockpit of his aircraft waiting for takeoff, a freak accident occurred when a rocket slammed into the exterior fuel tank of McCain’s plane. Miraculously, McCain escaped from the burning aircraft, but dozens of his shipmates were killed and injured in the explosions that followed.

McCain’s final downing came just three months later when his A-4 Skyhawk was hit by antiaircraft artillery over Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi, North Vietnam. McCain spent the next five-and-a-half years as a prisoner of war and, upon return to the United States in 1973, like the other returning POWs, McCain became an instant hero. The POWs had been treated abominably, yet stood up to their torturers and were deserving of the accolades they received. But some questioned the number and types of medals bestowed upon “Ace” McCain, the son of the admiral commanding in the Pacific as well as the grandson of another admiral.

Exactly – he was the same way the last time he ran.

Thanks so much Tula. Yeah, the platitudes will be a plenty. That is all he has on the economy and foreign policy. “We’ve turned a corner” or “we’re winning.”

He won’t have anything else. And sadly, he’ll often get away with just saying these kinds of things…

as previously commented, the wingers have left tons of damaging stuff about him all over the web

their vitriol has at times helped give cred to the whole maverick gimmick but it appears their collective heads exploded over McCain-Feingold – free speech and all doncha know

Good book. And that says it all.

The McCain people want to make it seem like the book is not a compendium on his career, with something like 250 footnotes….My apologies to them for reporting the truth..NOT!

Fixed it for ya. Never apologize…for reporting the truth!

FunnyDiva

Yeah—Pilot Crash an Burn

Welcome Cliffster! Nice job going after McCain. Seeing him defending himself against your book makes my chest spit out hearts to you. ;-)

For some reporters around the country, this was a catharsis. They could tell me things they were scared to report with their names attached. But then again, I have many brave folks in my book, many Republicans in addition to Dems/Indies, who speak out.

Good on you for breaking down the wall of silence, Cliff.

In addition to well-founded fear of job loss, are you in a postion to help us media consumers better understand the internalized censorship among the reporters / editors you have encountered? I’m still trying to get my head around that….in some ways, the culture of media silence in McCain’s campaign press followers strongly resembles cult dynamics, but I’m hoping that’s not the explanation.

Can you shed any light on how keeping the secrets became part of so many reporters and editors’ job description?

(with folks such as you and David and your “out” sources and the like as clear exceptions, of course)

When we were chatting about McCain’s age here on Sunday nite, newtonusr pointed out that, should McCain be elected to two terms, his predecessor will be younger when McCain leaves office than McCain is now. I responded that McCain’s predecessor’s predecessor will be younger eight years from now than McCain is now.

McCain is worn-out and damaged, but those criticisms somehow relate to his Vietnam imprisonment in some voters’ minds. I think it’s better simply to say he’s too old.

It would be nice if we could also refer to his current medication regimen, but I doubt his medical records will be quite that transparent.

Thanks, but don’t worry, all sarcasm…The day I apologize to McCain…

Wonder if we could get Bush an McCain to do a fly off- to determine who is the worst pilot….Apparently Bush got so bad that he became afraid to fly.

Let’s see now – guess who fits: Son of privilege, fairly incompetant student, gets military position through intervention of family members, rises due to family influence. George W. Bush…or John McCain? Or both?

The media, especially with tv news, is a new elite. They get the good seats at restaurants, make the big salaries, go to the cool parties. So in DC, the culture becomes about protecting that, for many. I don’t want to impugn all, as many do their job honorably. But too many are just happy to be members of the club…

Hi Kay!

Always great to see you! I am hoping to do an event in Portland, and hope you’ll be there! And thanks for the kind comments. I really appreciate it.

Lots of similarities between Bush and McBush

Both have famous fathers and grandfathers

Both have bad tempers

Both relied on Daddy to get into college

Both fucked up college

Both became pilots with questionable records

Only difference- McBush actually had the balls to go to war….Important difference though.

Oops

I guess Toby beat me to this comparison…

I think that is a keeper.

“A new elite.”

(Murrow is spinning in his grave.)

That is the key point. He is a maverick when it is politically good to be one, or when he is pissed at someone and trying to stir things up. That is the essence of McCain

Kirk, reporters everywhere are major keepers of secrets. We have to be, or people won’t talk to us.

However, the norms around when you keep them, and for whom, and for how long seem to have changed a lot in the last 20 years. Tim Russert says everybody’s on background with him now, unless they tell him otherwise. That’s a total reversal of the form.

Right now, I’m writing my thesis. My advisor works in national security, and our discussions are frank and open. To keep them that way, I’ve had to extend Russert’s Rules to somebody for the first time in my life. I’m privy to a lot of things that would make my career if I printed them — but I’ve made that deal, because I want to know what this man knows.

So it is in every kind of journalism. You have to be safe to talk to — yet still find a way to be able to report on what you hear. It’s a hard line to walk sometimes.

Cliff, thanks for helping me understand: and good on ya for refusing the gilded cage.

Yeah, me too!

FunnyD

Both are unbelievable wealthy and try and portray themselves as regular guys. And the Democrats as elite. We cannot let McCain get away with that!

I agree. The media have these kneejerk default narratives for McCain that he is a maverick and straightshooter. No matter how often or how thoroughly these images are debunked they are repeated endlessly.

As he should be…journalism is supposed to keep power accountable, not become power.

Cliff, Is there any sphere of the MSM that you have hopes for more incisive reporting on McCain?

OMG. I wouldn’t miss that for the world. If I did, it’s because a rare meteor hit my house and killed me. LOL

I’m so glad your book has done terrific. ;-)

So the “my friends” meme is code for something…

(btw, it so grates on my ears and brain to hear him say that!)

Great question. I think obviously much of it MUST come from the Internets. Look at what FDL and Marcy Wheeler did with Libby. Also, I think there are some print columnists out there who will and have stepped up to the plate (Vanity Fair had a must-read piece about McCain by Todd Purdhum about a year ago). Some radio. I wish I had more hope for tv. Maybe the comedians will have to do it, like Maher….

In response to Cliff Schecter @ 163

I think that is a keeper.

“A new elite.”

Known here at the Lake as “the Cocktail Weenie Set”.

FunnyD

I think it is code for he is about to punch you.

Do you think that because McCain is disliked by many on the right that he is being set up as the sacrificial lamb or scapegoat for the November election? I note that McCain has not been raising oodles of cash like previous Republican candidates. Has Republican big money written John McCain and November off?

My pleasure Kirk. Thank you!

Oh, Angie, me too.
This am while I was listening to the radio, his voice came on and I immediately turned the sound off, not soon enough to hear My Friends, and I got So Outraged.
It’ what I do whenever the current president comes on the radio.
Please , someone, don’t let McCain be the next President.

Good question. I have wondered about the fundraising. But I think when the Dems have a nominee, and the GOP can focus on an enemy, then the fundraising will pick up. And inevitably there will be a Swift Boat type group. Also, McCain is working hard to suck up to everyone on the Far Right he ever offended. I expect him to win over some.

I think they’ll see him as preferable, but maybe not be as upset if he loses as they would if it were their boy Bush…

Hugh, I’d guess that the big GOP money is holding its fire until the Dem nomination is settled.

If Hillary wins, a lot of it will go to her. If Obama wins, they’ll start throwing it at McCain as fast as they can.

I would rather have a guy or woman single in the White House than in a bad marriage. Hillary would be much more acceptable had she separated from Bill a long time ago.

Help us all!

Cliff Schechter:

Clearly the rank and file in the press are a fan club for McCain, but do you have any indication that they are following editorial directives from executives to sell McCain? Forgive me if your book already addresses the question.

I ask because to me there’s a correlation between his very early support for a neoconservative foreign policy and the press support. That may be reductive or wrong, and it may discount some of McCain’s genuine affability and good humor, but it’s the way I see it.

Cliff
Do any of the reporters who spoke with you seem to feel any remorse for not telling the truth in their own reports? Do they give you reasons why they don’t or can’t?

I think one stumbling block the traditional media faces is that any story they might do on McCain’s about-faces would have to include a section on the lack of prior coverage by the media.

Somehow, I don’t see many reporters leaping to hit themselves in the face with a pie.

But somewhere, there’s got to be a young reporter who would just love to throw that pie at the reporters who sat on the bus, ate the BBQ, and ducked the stories.

Great book, Cliff!

Coming in late. Don’t know if this has been asked. On a post over the past week somewhere—don’t remember where—it was asked about the “adoring” press .. . . . is it possible that they cut him so much slack not because they like him but because they are afraid of him?

Not a McCain question but do you think the mainstream media have a future other than becoming or continuing to be infotainment? They seem continually to be losing breadth and depth of coverage. They write off the same AP story and cut their staffs. Meanwhile we in the blogosphere do a lot of the factchecking, ferreting out of detail, comparison of past and current statements, and analysis they fail to do or do well.

Most welcome, Cliff – thanks for your work and your great book!

Mrs Robinson, I love your phrasing about “mileage”. And thanks for describing the appropriately important role of secrets in honorable journalists’ work. My wording was really sloppy – we shrinky type call it “confidentiality” – and willful breaches are just cause for loss of licensure.

Apologies for sloppy writing on my end – and I can’t even blame it on boxing (perhaps UCSB in the late 70’s will do).

[BTW, love your handle, Mrs. R]

plastics

Cliff, You’re much more effective than most going “one on one” against the wingers. How did you develop the skills you display every time you take one on?

Saw McCain being interviewed lately. He was deliberately slow and measured in his responses and kept his voice volume relatively low. Maybe he’s been taught to do that to avoid having the pot start to boil over?

Hugh: And then they wring their hands about how those bloggers couldn’t possibly do any of it without their primary reporting to riff off of, and how will they get by when we go under?

We’re going to be fine. Really.

I don’t know this to be the case for all of them. But yes, I do know of some cases where the editors are convincing reporters to leave it alone. Not all that good for a Democracy, to put it kindly…

I noticed that this weekend on This Week, although he still almost lost it. But he is trying to speak slowly and in a controlled manner, to make people forget he has been somewhat of a maniac for his whole life…

or they have him on drugs. ?

Whenever McCain speaks with measure his face tightens up, his eyes get smaller, his lips thinner, his jaw locked. Put his speaking tone is measured.

” or a bigger meal ticket is available.

Definitely based on meal ticket and a fresh new slab of meat.”

*shudders*

There are six months of hard slogging left, and McCain’s going to have a camera turned on him every moment he’s not sleeping or in the bathroom.

If he’s really that hotheaded, the day’s going to come….

What’s “it”, and which editors?

It is tough to say where I got it from. I have always had a knack for debating, which perhaps comes from all the arguments one gets in growing up in New York.

Seriously, I think I had a skillset, but I developed it. The key is not having any fear of them, because they really are not that tough. Confidence translates on tv. Also, one just needs to practice to get down the little things (like always looking at the camera, keeping still, etc.). I used to go on a Fox show on Saturdays I knew nobody watched just for practice.

So I would say some natural, some practice. I guess having some skill at this almost makes up for how bad I am at math :)

On more thing. Mocking them is key. Don’t show them any respect. They most certainly have never earned it.

We’ll be happy to do all your math problems for the rest of your life. Just keep going on tv and standing up to the wingers.

If you want to really shudder, imagine sleeping next to McCain. That would make me throw myself over the cliff. Poor Tosca!

And we will do everything we can to usher that day in.

And they take themselves deadly seriously. Big balloons of self-important hot air, just waiting for a rascal with a pin….

“it” is my book and bad stories on McCain. As for the editors, I am not going to publicly out them. Because some of these guys may yet come around. Plenty of time to point out who they are if they don’t see the light….

I can’t wait to see him go up against Obama in a televised debate. As old-school as he is, I don’t think he’ll deal well with being taken apart by someone half his age.

That sounds like a deal.

Cliff,
Do you think that the press might be afraid of his temper—there was an episode with Elis. Bumiller on the bus that was only lightly alluded to a while ago.

I noticed that this weekend on This Week, although he still almost lost it. But he is trying to speak slowly and in a controlled manner, to make people forget he has been somewhat of a maniac for his whole life…

Sure, now when and while he is rested, he can choose his appearances; but by the end of October, he is gonna be one tired bear. I think it’ll be easy to goad him into an outburst.

Thank you for being here Cliff.

Mocking them is key. Don’t show them any respect. They most certainly have never earned it.

Did you learn this from Jane, did she learn it from you, or is this a case of great minds thinking alike?

Especially somebody BLACK and half his age.

Arizona has never been known as a haven of racial tolerance. Neither have the USN officers’ corps.

Yes I do. It was when she brought up that HE approached Kerry to be on his ticket in 2004, not the other way around. I think they know he might snap, and they don’t want to be shut out.

I fully expect he’ll lose it with reporters a few times. And hopefully we can help get the word/video out there so people understand.

His temper is his “Macaca moment” waiting to happen…

I’m certain your math teachers are thrilled you pursued your passion.

Any thoughts on the Lieberman-McCain thing?

Every time he convinces a paper not to write about this book or not have me on tv, I am that much more motivated to come to places like this one, and make sure people know the truth. We have many months ahead of us. And I ain’t going nowhere Mr. McCain…

I like your spunk. I guess I’ll have to get over to Amazon now and buy the book too.

McCain showed well this week that he loves poor Americans – for their votes.

Yeah, Lieberman is as much of a political whore we all warned people he was. And he, like McCain, is most likely doing this out of anger. He could have supported him, without going after Obama. But he is mad that people thought there should be an actual election in 2006. Another small-minded, petty little politician, so he and McCain go well together.

Thank you. Every copy bought gives an Angel their wings.

I can understand why editors don’t want to piss off someone who might become the president of the United States…That’s a lot of power to mess with. Could cut your advertisers list in half and get you indicted if he’s a gooper.

Cliff thank you for spending the afternoon with us at the Lake.

Yes, that is all he likes about them. He doesn’t want to give them healthcare or a job or stop sending their kids to Iraq. Votes, however, that he’ll take…

The McCain as hero does seem a distortion of the neocons who never went to war. My husband, Naval Academy grad not at the bottom of his class (nuclear navy at first, then three years of Vietnam) always thought it a dishonor to be captured. He went through the prisoner of war “training” that the Navy put on, including the waterboarding, before heading up the Mekong. I think the waterboarding convinced him that he would never allow himself to be taken alive. He wouldn’t be disrespectful of those who were caught and survived; he would be compassionate. But hero? That makes him shake his head.

Ye Gods I didn’t know about all those lost planes in addition to the one he lost in Viet Nam. Could you kindly provide a link and/or where I can dig a bit deeper? Thanks!

Thanks so much Bev and thanks for having me here! It has been a real pleasure being around these fine parts. Keep up the great work everyone. It may only seem like a glimmer, but we can really take this thing back. I am sorry to sound like a cliche, but I do believe it.

Last time to make my publicist happy. The Real McCain only $10 at Amazon! Get a copy for your mom, your sister, your most hated Republican!

Ok, pitch done. Thanks so much all! And have a great day!!!

Some people seem to think Lieberman didn’t really cost Gore in votes but many people I spoke with who voted for Ralph did so because war hawk Lieberman was on the ballot.

What? He’s leaving?

Cliff–-do come back soon. This has been fun and best of luck with your book.

Thanks for taking time to chat with us today, Cliff, and thanks again for writing your wonderful and helpful book.

Great to see you, Cliff. Glad you’re out there fighting the fight.

Cliff – At least drop in to pay a casual visit and toss in a comment or two. Thanks for being here.

mine is on order at the local independent book store. I’m sure I will be buying multiple copies as time passes.

Thanks so much egregious! I will try and come back early and often. I promise!!

Do you think that the press might be afraid of his temper—there was an episode with Elis. Bumiller on the bus that was only lightly alluded to a while ago.

The way the boys and girls on the campaign airbus normalized this is what first made wonder about cult dynamics among McCain’s travelling press circus.

“After the Bumiller incident, Ana Marie Cox said something to the effect that the problem was that Bumiller had just gotten to the McCain beat, whereas those who had been on the trail with him for a while would never be so mean as to challenge him.”

Thanks so much RevDeb! It is appreciated. My son’s diaper fund thanks you too :)

Thanks MrsRobinson for all the comments and hanging out here. I loved it. Will be back. That you can bank on.

Thank you Teddy! And thanks for coming by and asking such great questions!

Cliff, thanks again for your work and your book – and thanks for taking the time to join us today.

Every copy bought gives an Angel their wings.

And a bell rings too. But I’m pretty sure it’s the cash register.

QuakerGirl – Done and Done. I promise. Thanks again to you and everyone here. Overwhelming response. And I am grateful!

Thank you Kirk! It was my pleasure!!

Thanks so much for being here today, Cliff. We really appreciate it.

“If you want to really shudder, imagine sleeping next to McCain. That would make me throw myself over the cliff.”

*wretches* just contemplating imagining it :-)

You’d best sleep with one eye open

And he himself has such a long and lousy record that he keeps trying to correct/modulate/fix. As if folks may forget.