Allons Zo Bistro

Not Zed!

Not a fan of pointless suspense, eh?

Show us your cards. Give it up.

…just don’t get it wrong by going with HRC!

“Stop the election before Hillary wins!”

Isn’t that what you really mean?

Real Democrats aren’t afraid of democracy.

Being the biggest attention whores/megalomaniacs on the planet would tend to make them pro-Clinton.

Show us your cards. Give it up.

Pretty please?

Why sir, that would defeat the whole process of the superdelegates and their very honor!

After all, what could be more American than a bunch of pampered weenies waiting for their every spoken utterance to be weighed and treasured like the Sermon on the Mount?

I think Dean is sayin that superdelegates should declare right after the primaries are completed on June 3rd. Makes sense. It’s only a month or so away.

I’ve heard that the attention ###### are “waiting” for the “resolution” to FL and MI. You know, the primaries where clinton was the only one a voter could “choose”?

i’m hoping that obama has a bunch of superdel announcements lined up for the next two weeks. Would be good for them to roll out one or two a day …

Democratic superdelegates, unless you are the biggest attention whores/megalomaniacs on the planet,…

My bold. And that is exactly what they are, prima donnas primping for the cameras:

“All right, Mr. DeMille, I’m ready for my close-up,”

I so want Obama to be our candidate, that I am losing my perspective, cynicism, and patience. The only thing keeping me sane right now is voting on the MoveOn ads.

The more she campaigns, the more I am against Hillary. She loses me with every primary battle.

OT from the fdl newsbox

The government is scrapping a $20 million prototype of its highly touted “virtual fence” on the Arizona-Mexico border because the system is failing to adequately alert border patrol agents to illegal crossings, officials said.

The move comes just two months after Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff announced his approval of the fence built by The Boeing Co. The fence consists of nine electronic surveillance towers along a 28-mile section of border southwest of Tucson.

Like I say, Michael Chertoff the most incompetent man in Washington.

Superdelegates were created, I believe, after the 1968 dem convention fiasco in Chicago. Prior to that, it was possible to broker a convention and reforms made the primaries MUCH more important. Super Delegates were created to make room at the convention for dem officeholders and party officials so that they wouldn’t have to run as committed delegates. It was also thought that they could be a firewall to prevent the nomination of someone who looked great in the early primaries and then was discovered to be an axe murderer late in the process.

The superdelegates would probably not be such an issue if it weren’t for the meltdowns in Florida and Michigan. Now those regular delegates, who would probably have settled the issue, can’t vote.

It’s a little on the ugly side.

Amen. It’s bad enough that unelected croneys will make this decision in the first place. The fact that they can’t even do that right (unlike the Republicans, who are experts at nepotism and croneyism) is giving McCain his only shot at the White House.
http://newsprism.wordpress.com

Not true in Florida- Obama was on the ballot as well.

Re virtual border fence, where’s the incompetence? I bet boeing gets paid for the prototype. And I bet they or someone equiv gets to build a 2nd prototype. Who cares if it works as long as the funds keep flowing?

i’m of two minds on this. on the one hand, i think the people who haven’t gotten a chance to vote yet, should. on the other hand, i read here lots of people saying they think continuing the primary process is destructive (i don’t watch tv news – unless you count c-span – so i have no way to judge for myself on this one).

should the primary season have been shorter? would we be better off if all states have their elections by the first week in may instead of the first week in june?

(or was it Michigan- can’t remember for sure).

It was also thought that they could be a firewall to prevent the nomination of someone who looked great in the early primaries and then was discovered to be an axe murderer late in the process.

not that i’m making any accusations, but isn’t that exactly the story arc that’s playing out this time? Can’t someone step and warn that we should be careful with that ax?

I think Dean is sayin that superdelegates should declare right after the primaries are completed on June 3rd. Makes sense. It’s only a month or so away.

They should do so now. Nothing is going to change between now and then but the infighting will continue to hurt the party. If this were some more polite less important election cycle, waiting until the end of the primaries would make sense but it isn’t and they shouldn’t.

K. Drum:

THE McCAIN BUBBLE….Jon Cohn notes that despite the grueling, muddy, endless Democratic primary campaign — complete with Wrightgate, Bittergate, Bowlinggate, Tuzlagate, etc. — Gallup’s tracking polls that match up Obama and Clinton vs. John McCain have stayed as flat as Tom Frank’s Kansas prairie over the past month. None of this stuff has helped McCain by even a percentage point. He was stuck at 45% a month ago and he’s stuck at 45% today. Jon takes a guess at what’s going on:

That 45 percent figure represents a ceiling of his support.

…Very few realize that he has supported privatizing Social Security, that he opposes universal health insurance, that he supports free trade without qualification, and so on. Once the voters learn these things, at least some of them are likely to abandon him.

If anything, McCain has the look of an Internet stock circa 1999: Great numbers, lousy fundamentals.

Do we get a refund?

Well, maybe, but about 300 of em apparently don’t WANT to commit now- and Dean can’t MAKE em. This will require leadership and compromise.

Actually superdelegates came out of the ‘72 McGovern and ‘76 Carter campaigns when a number of elected officials were not selected as delegates due to backing other than McGovern and Carter.

The ‘68 convention spawned the McGovern commission which set rules requiring that the state delegate make-ups reflect that particular state in composition. I.E., if the state was 52% female, 25% african-american, 15% native american, etc, then the delegates had to be the same, within a reasonable mix.

You know, reflect the diversity of the overall population and not just be Old white males.

Most?!?! isn’t like the whole administration vying for that title as well? *sigh* 20 milion down the shithole and yet I’m not surprised

Actually, the 2025-delegate-total-needed-to-win excludes Florida and Michigan.

Barring an overwhelming favorite candidate, superdelegates are required to win the nom.

I agree with BT — time to say who you’re gonna vote for. Aren’t superdelegates tired of the 3am phonecalls from Chelsea Clinton?

Who you gonna vote for? Say!

o/t (sorry if a repeat)

Betrayus chosen as new head of Centcom.

I think Dean is sayin that superdelegates should declare right after the primaries are completed on June 3rd. Makes sense. It’s only a month or so away.

So those who don’t should have their names published so that voters in their home states can ask them why they aren’t.

But Blue…

What happens if the Super Delegates pretty much split…which continues the series of “indecisive” primaries?

The only way they’d really resolve anything is if they vote pretty much as a bloc. Then they could be decisive. But if they split that could make this thing drag out until Puerto Rico…or Montana. Or the convention.

Maybe Ms. Hamsher or Red could tell us if the Supers are back there negotiating with one another. Maybe they could fell two birds with one stone.

If the Superdelegates all go to Obama, then they could allow the elected delegates from Florida and Michigan to go to the convention. They could punish the conniving Superdelegates from those states by blocking them from the votes on the nominee. That would insure that those who CAUSED the issue get punished, some of those who voted in the primaries get enfranchised…with the Superdelegates “enfranchising” those who may not have had a nominee listed on their ballot or who may not have come out for what they thought was a “beauty contest”.

Florida and Michigan are happy, the primary fights are ended, and we don’t allow the Republicans to say “The Dim Nominee was elected in aPuerto Rico…a Spanish speaking land not even part of the United States…Hillary, El Presidente! Ha-ha, why not Guam!”

I believe all candidates agreed not to campaign in FL and MI. In MI, Obama, Edwards, and I think Richardson and Biden decided to remove their names from the ballot completely. Clinton, Dodd, Kucinich, and Gravel kept their names on the ballot but none of them campaigned.

Florida rules were that the only way a candidate could take their name of the ballot was by leaving the race completely.

I just worry there won’t be enough time to unify the pary behind the one candidate and camoaign in all 50 states in 9 weeks.

Yippy Ki yay

(petraeus article on nyt)

just agreed to be nominated, right? Does this position require congressional approval? (honest question) Not that our spineless reps would do ever disagree w/ the noble general …

You know, I had to pick a candidate March 4, and a lot of people had to pick earlier. These are supposed to be SuperDemocrats, with their fingers on the pulse and the ones who really know what’s going on in the party and the political landscape etc. etc. blah blah blah. What the hell?

My conspiracy theory which I hope is off-base but fear is true: Every superdelegate who hasn’t publicly expressed a preference is actually for Hillary and is just waiting for a less Florida-2000-like moment to announce. Because if you were a superdelegate and you were for Obama, wouldn’t you have said so a long time ago, to show Hillary resistance was futile?

Betrayus chosen as new head of Centcom.

And his idiot lieutenant Odierno has been named to lead ground forces in Iraq. As I said a thread or two ago, both of these require Senate confirmation and both should be opposed.

So during the dog-and-pony show, there was a reason McCain was asking him about Afghanistan?

Seems to me McCain is very bad about letting secrets out of the bag: Iran, Centcom….

you forgot gutless

Feb. ? all that on air handwringing (Brazile) – she was speaking about how bad it would be for Supers to ‘decide the race’ but what I heard was

oh my gawd ! we might have to independently decide something without polling or consenses – help me! help me!

remember darlings, these are so called establishment Dems

slim pick’ns, that you?

clinton hadname recognition. she has been a part of the national political discourse since Bill took office. Name brand has its advantages.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..471/457181

Link to a good discussion of the history of superdelegates.

Interesting. So Obama and Clinton continue to campaign against each other and, in effect, toil in the minors waiting for the chance to get to the “show.” Meanwhile, McCain’s topped out at 45% and can only go down from there.

Unless a meteorite lands on Obama’s head, we all know how this is going to play out. I’m content to sit back and let it.

Yep and it’s going to be very awkward for Hill & Bill to campaign for Obama after another 6 weeks of Kitchen Sink vitriol … this is doing a lot of damage to the Dems winning the Presidency …

If Superdelegates split, Obama would win because he is ahead in the regular delegate count.

well, i don’t count because while i don’t like either clinton or obama – i need less than 5 seconds of thinking about a president mccain and i’m wanting on that unity bus.

… i just have a difficult time thinking that even the hard sells will need more than a minute.

Which is another argument against the idea of a single day primary or having everything front loaded as it was this year.

Time for the Super Delegates to pick a team. I’m pulling a Rip Van Winkle. Wake me up when it’s over and we have a nominee.

I agree. Obama’s got this one wrapped up unless he’s indicted for child molestation…and the idea that McBush is benefiting from the mess is WAY over-rated….

is there any chance H&B are actually planning to campaign for Obama in the fall? I’ve been assuming not …

The Supers are a most “UnDemocratic” feature. Take Brendan Byrne, former Governor of NJ who was just given an unelected vote at the DNC and then promptly endorsed the Clintons. Byrne has no more right to be a voting delegate at the 2008 DNC than anyone else.

McGovern swept most of the later primaries in 72 and many party regulars were excluded from seats on the floor in Miami 72. The McGovern 72 ge debacle provided fuel for the fire against insurgent presidential candidates. This triggered the beginning of the superdelegates.

Obama is a much stronger candidate, in my view, than McGovern ever was. But the point is, would Obama win the nomination if there were no superdelegates and all delegates were elected based on a proportionate allocation of elected delegates?

The following numbers are taken from CNN as of March 15, 2008, as they tend to be more conservative with their pledged superdelegate numbers.

Total Delegates (Supers + Pledged)-
4,048

Total Pledged-
3,253

Total Supers-
795

Already Pledged-
2,647

Decided Supers-
444

Remaining Pledged-
606

Remaining Supers-
351

Obama Total-
1,611

Hillary Total-
1,480

It is impossible to predict exactly how the remaining delegates will be divvied up. However, as we look at the last couple of months, even with Hillary’s wins in the big states Obama is still slowly pulling ahead in pledged delegates with close loses and crushing wins in smaller, caucus states. So, let’s divide the remaining states up decidedly, and unrealistically, in Hillary’s favor. If we give Hillary 60% of the remaining pledged delegates (because it’s a nice round number, though certainly many more than she is expected to win) that brings their totals (including already decided supers) to-

Obama=
1,853

Hillary=
1,844

Now, let’s divide the remaining superdelegates (551) up according to the amount of pledged delegates that were won over the course of ALL the primaries.

Obama would have won 50.6% of the pledged delegates (1646/3253)

Hillary would have won 49.4% (1607/3253)

Breaking down the remaining supers based on these pledged percentages (as we assume they don’t want to make a decision for themselves on the convention floor) would produce the following numbers-

Obama + 178 = 2,031

Hillary + 173 = 2,017

Given this scenario, Obama would still attain the necessary 2,025 delegates to beat HRC. Obviously, this is very close to the threshold number whereby HRC wins. If just 7 of Obama’s delegates were given to HRC, then it would be a tie. If 8, Hillary wins. By this math, Hillary needs to win about 61% of the remaining pledged delegates to win, if the remaining supers are divided up at the DNC by the total number of pledged delegates won during the primaries. This of course includes all the Florida and Michigan delegates being seated at their full values.

The super issue is a distraction. Obam wins with no supers if they are reallocated to elected delegates and the Clintons should go home.

OK. Hope you didn’t miss my apology if it was a repeated headline…i’m a left coastie.

Anyway, here’s another graph to chew on:

The necessary paperwork to make General Petraeus’s new assignment a reality will be speeded to the White House, and from there to the Senate, where Mr. Gates said he was confident of quick confirmation, based on his recent conversations with leaders of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

I agree. Obama’s got this one wrapped up unless he’s indicted for child molestation…and the idea that McBush is benefiting from the mess is WAY over-rated….

It’s really the media who are pushing McCain. A lot of big Republican money has stayed away from him, probably A) because they don’t like him and B) because they think he is going to lose.

Re Puerto Rico,

Heard in passing on msnbc last night that the Governor is “under investigation.” I’m sure it’s just a coincidence right? Not related to their 53 delegates who are currently expected to go for Obama?

But that is just you because your going to vote dem but what about the others that are fence sitters? as we speak McCain gets to paint this bullshit picture of himself devoid of all truth. We need time to make our (dem) argument to those that haven’t decided to go dem, and who have been living off the lies that is the MSM and Bush co.

Or maybe they just really, really want to back the winner. And they are afraid they will pick the wrong one: that only they will pick Obama and all the others will pick Clinton. I wouldn’t want to be that lonely little superdelegate.

In about one week, Obama will surpass Clinton in superdelegates (he’s about 19 away from her now) and that will be it. There will be a huge rush to get to the front of that parade, and it will be over.

These aren’t obscure unelected persons; they are elected public officials and party leaders who want to be with the winner. If they cared which of the two was the nominee, they would have declared for one of them by now; they just want to be with who wins.

And some of them — Nancy Pelosi, for instance, who will chair the Denver convention — really can’t pick one candidate if there’s still a contest, in the interest of fairness. Until one candidate exceeds the margin of real victory, some people need to appear to be impartial.

But some, like Donna Brazile, just covet their teevee time.

I think he’s probably under investigation cuz he’s a Democrat without having any bearing on who in the Dem party the PR folks might be leaning towards.

Every superdelegate who hasn’t publicly expressed a preference is actually for Hillary

and I think the Clintons who have owned the Party for sometime now, have pissed a lot of folks off by dictating to them – think the chickenshits are waiting for the olly olly Obama free and will go against them

Hillary has stated that she would campaign for Obama if he is the nominee but after the last 4 weeks, I don’t know how she will be able to reject her own assertions about him … Rove will have a field day playing her opposing comments together …

I think the process needs to play out. Obama may be inspirational, but his performance in the (awful, petty, but typical-of-the-media) ABC debate shows he has a lot of stammer/gaffe potential.

Besides, if he turns out blowing the next couple of months, we might not want him as a candidate.

No, No. The Clintons are not wanted in the ge. They are a distinct liability with no upside.

right … she has certainly said a lot of things over the last weeks ;)

yep, but hil says that stuff is just coming from their enthusiastic supporters from both sides. Both camps do it for their heroes. oh, yuck!

i assume the superdels are mostly about the money.
>$45M vs. -$2M should be pretty convincing.

as we speak McCain gets to paint this bullshit picture of himself devoid of all truth

i was expecting that to continue regardless of the dem primary.

Do I have this right, Democratic voters in FL and MI are being punished for voting too soon, and Democratic voters in states with primaries in May and June are to be punished for voting too late?

Gee, I was lucky to live in a Goldilocks primary voting state, just the right time.

… and she is priming him for the Big Fight … /s

because he stammers? after our last president I’ll take it.

Um, with the ginormous holes that the Clintons and McCains have dug for themselves, Obama’s “gaffes” pale in comparison.

I’m an Edwards gal who was happy to see her candidate on teh Colbert show. But I’ll take Obama as the only alternative left to the crap as usual BS. just sayin’

I’m not a big Levin fan. He did lay out a good description of the situation in Iraq at the Petraeus and Crocker dog and pony show although he did IIRC hit it’s the Iraqis’ fault meme too hard. If there is to be a war with Iran before Bush and Cheney leave office, Petraeus at CENTCOM and Odierno as commander of the Multi-National Force-Iraq is the way to go. It is difficult for me to encapsulate in a few words what a pair of clowns these two guys are.

It wouldn’t be the first time candidates did such an about-face. Look at McShrub. We have years of materials, from on and off the campaign trail, on his thoughts about his new bff Shrub. ’sides, didn’t Senator Clinton say that Senator Obama might be ‘ready’ to be in line for the presidency by the convention? Presumably, he’s studying hard…

I am not a superdelegate.

I am not a fan of Senator Clinton.

I am not a fan of Senator Obama.

I have no belief that either of them is particularly progressive.

They have both spouted Republican talking points at varying times throughout the campaign.

But as it stands now one of the two will be the nominee for the Democratic Party in November 2008.

Both have received roughly 45% of the votes cast in the primaries and caucuses held to date.

Scarecrow is correct in his comment from the other day that we’ve reached a point where folks need to determine what THEIR candidate should do to bring the supporters of the OTHER candidate back together in party unity.

My $.02

Well I’m tired of trying to convince people of the time issue versus low info or misinformed voters. Just no one bitch when the GE rolls around and Mccain is prez.

Yep, the alternative to how he behaved was to be as vicious as Hillary can be derided for it … no surprise that he won’t debate her again …

There is no doubt in my mind the Clintons will campaign for Obama should he be the nominee. A unified Democratic party is the key to a landslide this fall. And boy, do we need a landslide!

Oh I hear you and I’m gulping really hard. I checked out the Armed Services group to refresh my memory on who’s on it and it’s scary. Not to mention the two most warmongering candidates are on it as well. Sugarballs.

I have a hard time seeing anyone holding up the confirmation of Jesus H Petraeus….

I would bet that Obama will be the most progressive POTUS since Carter …

Yeah, hopefully we’re getting all the He’s Older Than Time jokes out of our system and assembling the real dirt asap.

gtg pups. sorry to miss the book salon on the Real McCain. should be a good one.

scary clowns, not funny clowns.

I were him I wouldn’t even acknowledge her. . .period.

Hugh, is there a final Delegate count for Penn. ?

not disagreeing… just saying i don’t have any way to judge for myself. which is why this is the first time i’ve commented on the issue. i’ll go back to lurking on this one.

That’s the part that scares me. The real dirt is out there, and no one seems to care.

I think McSame has a real chance… …wakes me up at night.

I agree … it would be like Rudy “Hey, he’s not as big a jerk as I am“ Giuliani campaigning for McCain …

You know, I’m done with debates, and primary contest, etc. The party needs to unify around a candidate and absolutely smack down the repugs for the prez and additional congressional seats

Gee, I was lucky to live in a Goldilocks primary voting state, just the right time.

It’s a political process not a fairy tale story. It’s not perfect by any means or why else would so much time and effort be spent on two such small and unrepresentative states like Iowa and New Hampshire? MI and FL were avoidable errors and the voters in those states should be pissed at the Democratic leadership in those states for screwing them over. As for the remaining states? How will whatever they do change anything? And this is always what happens to those last to vote. It’s why the primary system as currently constituted sucks.

Well, I thought this was funny: Red State Update: Hillary Wins Pennsylvania
(h/t Margot)

He may be, but I’ve seen no evidence of it. I’ve seen a lot of evidence os fairly standard Chicago machine politician but not so much of a true progressive.

And for what it’s worth, Carter wasn’t all that progressive either in a lot of domestic areas. He was just a Christian who actually believed and practiced the Christian ethic.

What is the point of the Clintons, working with the Clintons etc. They are strictly for their own personal profit. What is this 45% for the Clintons based on. It seems like a drag along vote based on name recognition, race biting and gender issues raised by the Clintons and minimal education, again reverting to name recognition. On top of that the Clintons are much more dangerous than Obama. So put aside “progressive” and focus on dangerous and disorganized and dishonest. Then it becomes clear to me at least that the Clintons are not an alternative for any future.

No don’t go back to lurking. that was just my frustration talking. It wasn’t aimed directly at you at all. Just tired of the muck and now that we know the GOP is goiong to play the race card, I’d like to think that all dems would have his back instead of his democractic opponent possibly piggy backing off of it and causing further party fracture. (no pearl clutching, she has flirterd fast and furious with the race baiting)

I hope these hearings go on until the GE … Rove ‘hijacked’ the Dept. of Justice to win elections

GE; We bring good things to life.

Oh Lordy. Yeah, I hate democracy.

This ain’t no party!

We Dems are doing exactly what we always do – demanding perfection. It really irritates me because it’s not there and we shoot ourselves in the foot and whine and moan about every little thing. The Repubs pick any old thing, throw all their money behind him and win. We need to stop this and get behind a candidate and push as hard as we can. We need to stop saying “well, I’ll hold my nose and vote for him/her” Get Over it !

What is the point of the Clintons, working with the Clintons etc. They are strictly for their own personal profit

Until this election season, I would not have agreed with that statement… but now, I’m not so sure you are incorrect.

As one who will be in the next round of voting (Indiana), I would gladly give up my opportunity to cast a primary ballot to have this thing overwith NOW. My enthusiasm is wanning by the day. Supers, please put us out of our misery.

So, you’d just go ahead and trash the Clinton supporters and what they may have seen in the Clintons? If so, then it seems we might just as well hand the election to McSame.

Obama needs Clinton supporters to get elected President if he is the nominee just as Clinton would need Obama supporter if she is the nominee.

Democrats do NOT win elections by insulting and marginalizing half of the party, no matter how much some supporters of one candidate may dislike (hate) the other candidate.

You obviously have an extreme dislike for all things Clinton and feel that they are the root of all evil in Washington. That is your opinion and right.

I disagree with you which is my right.

You would lose that bet.

Progressive Punch ratings, which are based on voting record, as of a month ago:

Obama ranked 41st in the Senate

Clinton 24th

These Senators ranked more progressive:

Webb, Feinstein and Ben Nelson.

Never ceases to amaze me how fact free most of the threads throughout the ’sphere actually are.

This ain’t no disco,
This ain’t no foolin’ around

If it is not Hillary, the Clintons want to prevent that from happening.

And the primary system has sucked for a long time, every election cycle the states to vote late (justifiably) complain that they don’t get a say in the nominee.

It sucks every year, and it sucks this year, but it is time to pick a frickin candidate!

i just meant on this one issue – i still have plenty to say on other topics ;-)

Heads

The last I saw with Penn delegates is 75-65 Clinton with 18 yet to be allocated.

What happens if the Super Delegates pretty much split…which continues the series of “indecisive” primaries?

That seems unlikely, but it’s a really good question. If that happens, though, the remaining primaries actually have meaning and real stakes as opposed to this pointless non-race we’ve got now.

how true you are

Here’s what I think. No matter who wins we’ll be all pissed off about something.

I am pissed off about that.

I don’t have the energy to be pissed off anymore.

I just want it to end.

No matter who wins we’ll be all pissed off about something.

Bingo!

Don’t have a Cow, man !

I guess that can be said of the Dem Primary this year.. it really is life during wartime…

BTW from the Penn Department of State, these are the current tallies with 99.44% of districts reporting:

Obama 1,029,672 45.4%
Clinton 1,237,696 54.6%

Her spread is 9.2%.

scary clowns, not funny clowns

well i still appreciate all opinions on all topics, whether i agree or not. this issue however is getting so old, it’s moldy (IMO) i’m just disappointed that so much of this campaign is the very thing for which i detest repugs. i expected better

You mean it won’t be all peaches and cream when it’s over?

Fuck, I’m pissed.

I would bet that Obama will be the most progressive POTUS since Carter …

LOL – which would make him the most progressive POTUS since Nixon.

i mean, i think Carter was a decent president and is a decent man (not many people one can say that about). but i don’t think he was at all progressive – isn’t that why Kennedy ran a primary challenge? because Carter wouldn’t use the opportunity to try for universal health care and the progressives in the country were pissed?

We’ll have this conversation 4 years hence …

Is it 67% of the American public who finds HRC to be untrustworthy? Is it the Clintons who put their entire presidency and the USA at risk through a confidential relationship with a 19 year old (maybe I am wrong on the age). The Clintons who gave us Tenet, Berger, etc. And now go around marketing their brand through expensive introductions masked as bogus speeches. It is ok to reject the Clintons going forward. We will all be better off. I am not playing gotcha

yeah but can we win the pres and be pissed off about something else?

Or maybe they just really, really want to back the winner. And they are afraid they will pick the wrong one: that only they will pick Obama and all the others will pick Clinton.

Great. Just what we need: Political leadership that runs on fear. It’s worked so well so far.

It really doesn’t matter at this point. It’s gotten way past the “we’re energizing the party and bringing in new voters” stage. There is no further benefit to be had in keeping this thing going any longer. We’re spending tens of millions of dollars – money that would be WAY better spent pounding on John McCain and reminding the public of what ought to be his obvious shortcomings. We’re burning through all of our ammo, and we haven’t even engaged the enemy. We’re making ourselves look like a bunch of idiots, reinforcing every stereotype about Democrats in the process, and we’re not getting anywhere. We have taken our eyes off the prize, and we will pay dearly if we don’t regain our focus, and soon.

And don’t even give me this bullcrap about John McCain being unelectable and easy to beat; if things keep on like they have been, people will decide John McCain is the least offensive candidate given the choice of him or what’s left of the Democratic nominee when the media and the other Democratic candidate finished chewing him/her up.

You think having McSame in charge is gonna show Barry the light?

I doubt it.

That was tongue in cheek but as a World Citizen (Canadian) I think Carter did/tried to do many progressive and positive things.

I also think Obama, with the people behind him, will take America and by extension, the World towards a more progressive agenda.

Oh yea. No one is going to live up to our expectations. . .like, you know?

Keystone caller: What hurt Barack Obama in Pennsylvania?
Well, according to a Calistoga supporter who was tapped to make calls for the presidential hopeful, the four most common remarks from voters were:
“Isn’t he a baby killer?” (In reference to his abortion-rights stance.)
“Gee, I don’t know. Isn’t he a minister?”
“I don’t like his wife.”
And of course, “Why won’t he wear a flag pin?”

Didn’t I recently read in the NYT about a flap over a superdelegate who mentioned a preference for Obama and caught h*ll because superdelegates aren’t supposed to reveal preferences before the convention voting? *mutter, mutter, where’s that paper, mutter, mutter*

We need to stop saying “well, I’ll hold my nose and vote for him/her” Get Over it !

that’s the price of my vote and my support. i’m not going to pretend i think differently than i do, and i’m not going to stop trying to think for myself.

and the war, the economy, human rights and the environment are not “little” things to me.

Raven has just about summed it all up.

And dammit, I’m pissed with being pissed, but, I guess, I’d be pissed if I wasn’t pissed …

true

I think Carter has been a much more progressive ex-President than he ever was a progressive President.

OT – From Think Progress
The Lil’ Chickensh*t!

…

In a letter to Chairman John Conyers (D-MI), Yoo’s lawyer said his client was “not authorized” by the DOJ to discuss internal deliberations:

We have been expressly advised by the Office of Legal Counsel of the United States Department of Justice that Professor Yoo is not authorized to discuss before your Committee any specific deliberative communications, including the substance of comments on opinions or policy questions, or the confidential predecisional advice, recommendations or other positions taken by individuals or entities of the Executive Branch.

…

With regard to Jimmy Carter’s progressiveness, America would be energy independent if we’d followed the lead his presidency set. There isn’t much more progressive than not making war on people under whose sand our oil sits.

Still rounds to 55-45 which is what will be reported.

True … I honor him for Camp David …

No doubt Yoo wrote the Opinion for that excuse.

“Will you please listen to our party chairman, Howard Dean, and tell us who the hell you’re voting for?”

What? Declare themselves before the value of their votes has been determined? Before negotiating quid pro vote? Oh, wait! These are the Dems. No crooks in there. Well, other than Pelosi, Emanuel, Costello, et. al..

an in camera hearing would take care of that wouldn’t it Chairman Conyers ?

You know that I don’t think those are “little” things. What I am saying is that we are contributing to the “take-down” of our own candidates. We are not going to get perfection. People have faults, warts and all sorts of things and I certainly would not want to be judged on my perfection. We all do the best we can with a given situation and go forward.

It’s way past time that we get some courts to rule on the limits of executive privelege. Presidents have been makin it up as they go along for years.

I think Carter has been a much more progressive ex-President than he ever was a progressive President.

agree – was commenting only on his presidency.

that reminds me of an interview i saw awhile back (don’t remember where though). carter talked about how when he was president, he didn’t understand that economic issues like hunger and poverty were human rights issues too. that he had a very narrow understanding of what human rights are, and that it has been in his time since his presidency that he has made those connections (not even paraphrasing here, just my memory of his message).

that is one of the things i find so impressive about carter – that although he was a very smart guy to begin with, he has continued to push the limits of his understanding throughout his life, and he’s done it with compassion.

i disagree with a lot of what he did as president, but he is someone i truly admire.

According to all scenarios with Obama barely winning the states he is predicted to win and Hillary winning the states she is supposed to win 60%-%40 she still cannot catch Obama delegates. The longer she goes the harder it is for her to win enough superdelegates. Obama starting now only needs about 40% of SD to clinch. It is over unless all the Supers left all go for Hillary which is not going to happen.

Lets start pummeling McCain. He won’t hold; he will break just like he did . . . um (before). But it needs to start now. With pressure he will hang himself.

Love your post, BT.

are we there yet?

That seems unlikely, but it’s a really good question. If that happens, though, the remaining primaries actually have meaning and real stakes as opposed to this pointless non-race we’ve got now.

You know no such thing. It is your opinion.

Now, in my opinion, your opinion suffers from: 1]confirmation bias,2] narrative fallacy,3]failure to account for silent evidence,4]ludic fallacy, and 5] epistemic arrogance.

Is that “the math”
9.2 rounds to 9 in my recollection

I certainly would not want to be judged on my perfection.

of course not, me neither.

but i expect to be one of folks holding their nose….

I just couldn’t stand to watch it last night. Blather, blather about the same old subjects (pundits) and in the end we’re right back where we atarted. I get to vote in May but I am going to try not to listen to the continual bleating of the sheep on all sides.

I’ve definitely lost my enthusiasm for the race and will just vote for whatever Dem they decide upon. McCain is not smart enough to be President of my neighborhood association much less the USA.

Not making war on those Canucks skating over out water may be a close second.

careless wankers even let it freeze: talk about a threat to our precious vital fluids….

“skating over our water”

sigh.

saluting obstructed my vision again

Great post BT.

BTW, did you get my email this morning?

Well looks like we’ve got more primaries to look forward to…

Polls in North Carolina show Obama with what appears to be an insurmountable lead…Indiana polls mixed- about half show him ahead- about half have her leading.

With Obama’s massive funding advantage,he stands a good chance of putting Hillary away for good in Indiana. If she loses there, she’s toast.

Your HONORS/GODS,
“I now present my case on why you should take Hillary out for a long walk into the hoods, whoops, I mean the woods: “(heh heh)

So, many ask why can’t Obama close the deal??

OK let’s play.

1. Why is Obama ahead OVERALL?
2. Why can’t the omnipotent Team Clinton duo close the deal against one unknown silly but hopeful black man?

3. Why is it that in spite of Team Clinton and their supporters claims that (a.) the Jews, the Hispanics the Asians and the whites won’t vote for Obama and; (b)despite the now obvious racism and bigotry within his own Democrat party and;(c)despite polls from numerous sources, like ARG, KDKA, Quinnipiac etc., in January and February showing Clinton with a 20 point lead in ARGs and KDKA’s case, or in Quinnipiac’s case for, of a 52%-36% lead for Clinton in Pennsylvania and; (d) most important of all -in spite of Team Clinton throwing every vicious bit of garbage out of their kitchen sink Obama managed to increase his lead in Pennsylvania by -9 points.

In spite of Chris Matthews favorite “hometown girl” advantage, and the weight of the Rendell gang, and Team Clinton throwing their best shots at Obama since early January/February, they’re margin only increased by 3 points.

in spite of everything they threw, he still cut her lead in half.

If we all will now agree and stipulate to the Defendandant Clinton’s point that there is a certain amount of racism and bigotry in the Democrat party and in Pennsylvania and in America, here’s two questions the Super Delegates and every voter better ask themselves to judge who is best to lead “on day one”:

1. How much of Clinton’s 10 point “victory” can be attributed to just those bigoted voters?
2. Does any candidate deserve the Democratic nomination, in particular, and the White House if his/her margin of “victory” came from just the bigoted voters?

Because of the repeated insensitivity and cruelty shown to others, I find the defendant Clinton and her accomplice William Jefferson Clinton, un-worthy of such a high honor and request they be sent back to New York where they shall serve out their days.

For they no longer represent the core beliefs of this once great Democratic Party.”

Th OLC is run by Bradbury, you know the guy who said waterboarding wasn’t so bad. What is funny or just sad is that Bradbury is illegally in his post since the Senate has refused to move on his nomination something like 4 times. So the guy giving the DOJ’s legal opinions is not in a legal position to do so. Somehow that fits with this Administration and its track record.

You know no such thing. It is your opinion.

Now why would I offer my opinion on this blog?

It is more than reprehensible that Dean has been trying to steer this primary election. He claims we must hurry with this decision. Does that mean the DNC schedule was faulty? Does that mean more states should have held earlier primaries?

It is obvious that Dean is in Obama’s pocket. He gives the ball a big nudge in a preferred direction, then ostensibly backs off with the pretense of fairness dripping down his chin.

But, Obamaniacs can probably count on Howard ‘Reach Around’ Dean to have some more crap up his sleeve, and they can get this primary rigged once and for all.

I have the utmost contempt for: Nancy Pelosi — impeachment off the table. Harry Reid — FISA yo-yo and coward. Howard Dean — muddles, makes, and breaks primary rules on a whim. The Democratic Party and the Nation will be better off when these clowns are replaced.

The appropriate action is to appear and then assert your privilege. Just refusing to show is blatant contempt of Congress. I mean you have to hear the question first before you can say it is national security or executive privilege.

In PA, 99.44% (just like Ivory) of the districts have reported. Hillary lead 208,000 votes, i.e., 9.2%.

Before this victory she needed to win 66% of the remaining nonsuper delegates in order to have a majority of them. Now she needs 71%, i.e., no way in hell.

She will, of course, now claim that the popular vote is the important metric — she diminished Obama’s popular-vote lead by about a third last yesterday.

((( Kirk )))

Only the LA Times had the right headline today.

wrt President Carter:

Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter on Wednesday accused Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice of not telling the truth about warnings she said her department gave Carter not to speak to Hamas before a Middle East trip.

lying? her???

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200….._carter_dc

A true testimonial as to why Barry should never be allowed within a hundred miles of the WH.

What pray tell is the difference between this sort of supporter and those who put George W. Bush into office.

Answer….

None.

I was just reading that … wonder who the MSM will believe ?

Whatever the good intensions were in creating superdeligates, it has turned into a fiasco over time. Perhaps it is long overdue for a tweaking. I’ll accept Howard Dean’s suggestion and urging that supes declare right after primaries. Oh please. I am sooo tired of this silly game. I watched the Penn primaries last night with zero passion. That’s bad.

I have no doubt that weaker supes want to make certain they are on the winning side so they want a sure thing. Otherwise, they may get left out of some sweet deal/opportunity down the road.

(((Petro)))

Now what’s this I hear about your neighbors running our water through their kidneys?

Next thing you know they’ll be using it to flush toilets with – or even letting fish swim in it.

Why, we could be using that water on perfectly good lawns in Arizona and golf courses in Palm Desert and growing subsidized cotton in arid reaches of the south San Joaquin Valley…

Oh – wait – we are.

Nevermind.

But about those fish – why are your neighbors drinking the water our salmon need?

The funniest thing for me is growing Rice in the Desert (California) … and one o’ youse guyz wanted to trademark the “Basmati”, which has been grown in India for eternity …

That was a rhetorical question, right?

Any President in this country can be reached at any time, I bet.

For her to lie about this is beyond reprehensible and should be investigated asap.

(i know, i know)

But Petro – brown peoples’ knowledge really isn’t “known” until the Europeans publish it. How better could we help one billion Indians remember their heritage?

/s

What does that have to do with how the supers vote either the agree that Obama should get or Hillary. If the SD (uncommitted) split Obama still wins. So what will change. The remaining contests are going to be split and Obama’s lead will not change. Do you really think 60+% of the supers remaining uncommitted are going to vote en masse for Hillary? Not likely.

Pushing the call only serves the party; so whoever is the nominee has more time to kick McCains arse.

So, many ask why can’t Obama close the deal??

I don’t get this MSM loaded question. Let me see. Hillary was suppose to take a 30 point lead easily until Obama got to Penn and she kept dropping like a lead balloon until he gained 20 of of her points and she only retained 10. Not to mention all thos repugs who re-registered to vote for Hill to make certain Obama didn’t win. They won’t be behind her sails come election day.

In the meantime the good old boy, four star General Petraeus will be chief of Central Command, replacing truth teller, Admiral William Fallon. Petraes says he plans to stay the course because it is working so well. Where does Hill stand on his appointment?

AMEN.

“And there’s nothing Guam or Puerto Rico or South Dakota is going to tell us that we didn’t already know.”

Let’s make it even easier the next time. Why mess with primaries and racist white voters. Let DKos and Move On pick the candidate they want to win, and everyone else fall in line.

Oh and don’t forget the OLC opinions that Sheldon Whitehouse told us about. There was one OLC opinion that said the President could override OLC opinions. Sooo, they wrote an opinion that says their opinions mean nothing.

LOL … I have to say, being Indian in my field (Yoga/Meditation) these days makes me a minority … *g*

This may have been said already, but:

I don’t see a major problem with this going to the scheduled end of the primaries.

It’s forcing the candidates to build party infrastructure in all 50 states. That’s a good thing, and I’m willing to tolerate a few more weeks of sniping to get there.

Now, I don’t really want this to go undecided until the convention in August, but at this point we may as well wait until the primaries are complete before demanding that the superdels announce their preferences. There’s only 9 primaries left.

I say we let the process finish, then demand that the superdels make their choices known (which I fully expect will be for Obama) by, say June 15 or June 30.

In the interim, I think building up our party infrastructure in places like Montana, West Virginia, Indiana, and North Carolina, can only help us in the general election. And I note that Montana doesn’t hold its primary until June 3.

Maybe it’s a pie in the sky hope, but I honestly think Montana is winnable – if Obama builds a good ground team early in the game. And I don’t think that happens if he doesn’t have to compete in the primary there.

So let it play out, and then demand that the remaining delegates make their preferences known.

.

((((( Helen )))))

Thanks for that, I hadn’t see it before …

That is so disingenuous. It is clear that the nomination lead is with one candidate and the other is simply blocking a majority vote into a plurality. We have many times before picked a nominee early and the later states were unfortunately unnecessary, but the party was one, so in essence the vote was for the nominee. The same is true here there is nothing that will change the count.

But of course an impeachment inquiry would get us past all this nonsense.

No one is calling for the elections to be canceled. Lets just stop the negative attacks. If it weren’t for that I would agree with you. One candidate seems hell bent to destroy the other which is the only road to victory for that candidate. McCain shouldn’t be given 4-8 more weeks free ride.

I’m amazed at how unhinged some of the comments are on this topic.

Here’s Marcy. All three opinions discussed are astounding.

http://emptywheel.firedoglake……ixie-dust/

Funny, I completely agree with you after reading the majority comments here today.

I disagree. vehemently. Its on to Guam, Indiana, North Carolina, and West Virginia, with Florida and Michigan hanging in the air, plus some. We want the voters in these states to count? Right? Because already the delegate count is seems somewhat arbitrary in terms of states won. With superdelegates cutting in, it looks rather like party elite sticking a shiv in voters. And it doesn’t matter whether or not the perception is wrong or right, because the Democratic party needs Florida, Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, California etc. to win. With Michigan and Florida the delegate count does change according to this.
At this point, I care more about winnning the general election than either primary candidate. I rather see this play out, than a premature nominee.

Well, (a) she wants to nuke Iran. Even Buchanan was shocked at that-and said she’s “..she’s gone further Right than McCain is”, and (b)when Senator Diane Feinstein, Obama and the majority of the Senate Democrats tried to place a moratorium on the use of cluster bombing innocent civilian populations, -Hillary joined with all of the Republicans to defeat the bill. (That’s part of my concerns over her cruelty towards others.)

Does that kinda sorta give you an idea of the ‘real’ Hillary??
I’d like to see her asked about that vote too..but there’s more to worry about with her at the helm.

Everyone should look at this cluster bomb issue as a test of the inner workings of our next President, because he/she will play a major role in the weaponry used and supported by the US.

Right now as we speak, the MSM is holding back a story of something very serious going on overseas.
Over 100 nations have been working on and are preparing a Cluster Munitions Treaty -banning outright the use of cluster bombs. The thousands of tiny toylike bomblets within one bomb stay in the soil for decades and are nothing more than little land mines -that appeal specifically to children. The treaty is set to be announced in late May in Dublin. But the Bush Administration is secretly threatening everyone not to participate – going so far as to threaten the withholding of food aid to South Africa.
The sick backers of this pro-cluster plan- the Danes, the Brits and the USA.
What does Hillary think about THAT!?

Let the primaries play out. Pressuring the super delegates toward your desired effect is bullshit. If it goes to the floor, so what?

Obama has more explaining to do.

I agree with Naomi Klein’s article on this. The more pressure the candidates get (Dems), the better I see them get. First I was hearing of a “revised” No Child Left Behind Act. For the first time, I heard Clinton say she wants to scrap it. I am waiting for Obama to do the same, and I am waiting for both to do say a lot of things, like scrap the Dept of Heimat Security, etc.

Barry Ballless won’t debate, won’t allow MI and FL, does his little dance with the finger and the shoulders. He is running away. Dean and MoveOn have fucked up the process, and you want to stop the process? The process is working, leave the fuck alone. Of course the process will be the end of your chosen one, but in the long run that’s no big deal. Advice to Obama: negotiate with Hillary immediately for the vice president spot, now, while you have some leveage left. In a few weeks you will be too weak, and history will pass you by.

TxExspeedy, (do you mind if I call TxEx for short?) I agree that the negative attacks should stop, but they aren’t going to. That’s just one of the prices we pay. To me, that price seems temporarily worth it, since it compels the candidates to build up the party infrastructure in the remaining states.

For all we know, that may be one of the reasons some superdelegates still refrain from announcing their preferences.

I know the Clinton campaign seems ‘hell-bent’ on taking this all the way to the convention. I just don’t think they’ll be allowed to do it.

In any event, I think the time to demand a resolution from the superdelegates is after the June 3 primary. Once we get there, I’ll be happy to lend my voice to the full-throated calls for remaining delegates to make their choices known so we can focus our efforts on McCain. In the meantime, I’m content to wait it out in exchange for a build-up of the party infrastructure in the remaining primary states.

.

old91A10 @ 185:

Pressuring the super delegates toward your desired effect is bullshit. If it goes to the floor, so what?

It doesn’t go to the floor until August 25. That robs us of2-3 months in which the campaign could be focused instead on McCain.

I agree with letting the primaries play out, but we really need a decision soon after that – preferably by mid-June – rather than waiting for the convention.

.

okay, who left the troll food out?

Well, blame it on Howard ‘Reach Around’ Dean and the DNC.

They set it all up. Very prescient of him/them.

okay, who left the troll food out?

Not sure who you are seeing as a troll, but impassioned supporters of Senator Clinton should NOT be thought of as trolls just as impassioned supporters of Senator Obama should not be considered cultists (or trolls for that matter).

My $.02

Why not ask me instead of guessing? i was referring to the one who called Obama balless, k?

That remark may be uncouth and such but that still does not make the commenter a troll.

There are many folks who are not fans of Senator Obama just as there are many who are not fans of Senator Clinton. Some folks are not real politic in expressing that dislike.

But the reality is, neither Senator Obama nor Senator Clinton can win the General Election in November without a large helping of the other’s supporters.

There are no perfect candidates. There are only gradations on marginally acceptable.

Name calling is never okay IMO. You are entitled to your opinion as I ma mine and I stand by what I said. That person was a troll, just came by to fling poo.

It was not directed at candidate supporters in general as this is the place for discussion and debate but if you just drop in to call names and fling poo, your a troll.

Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself.

I don’t think that applies to atheist? *g*

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/tr…..ambit.html

Really