Hats off, ladies and gents — a real thing of beauty.
Check out how this 20-year old coed completely corners, traps, and ultimately pwns the former attorney general of the United States. In a public forum, no less.
ME: After WWII, the Tokyo Tribunal was basically the Nuremberg Trials for Japan. Many Japanese leaders were put on trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity, including torture. And among the tortures listed was the "water treatment," which we nowadays call waterboarding…
ASHCROFT: (interrupting) This is a speech, not a question. I don’t mind, but it’s not a question.
ME: It will be, sir, just give me a moment. The judgment describes this water treatment, and I quote, "the victim was bound or otherwise secured in a prone position; and water was forced through his mouth and nostrils into his lungs and stomach." One man, Yukio Asano, was sentenced to fifteen years hard labor by the allies for waterboarding American troops to obtain information. Since Yukio Asano was trying to get information to help defend his country–exactly what you, Mr. Ashcroft, say is acceptible for Americans to do–do you believe that his sentence was unjust? (boisterous applause and shouts of "Good question!")
ASHCROFT: (angrily) Now, listen here. You’re comparing apples and oranges, apples and oranges. We don’t do anything like what you described.
ME: I’m sorry, I was under the impression that we still use the method of putting a cloth over someone’s face and pouring water down their throat…
ASHCROFT: (interrupting, red-faced, shouting) Pouring! Pouring! Did you hear what she said? "Putting a cloth over someone’s face and pouring water on them." That’s not what you said before! Read that again, what you said before!
ME: Sir, other reports of the time say…
ASHCROFT: (shouting) Read what you said before! (cries of "Answer her fucking question!" from the audience) Read it!
ME: (firmly) Mr. Ashcroft, please answer the question.
ASHCROFT: (shouting) Read it back!
ME: "The victim was bound or otherwise secured in a prone position; and water was forced through his mouth and nostrils into his lungs and stomach."
ASHCROFT: (shouting) You hear that? You hear it? "Forced!" If you can’t tell the difference between forcing and pouring…does this college have an anatomy class? If you can’t tell the difference between forcing and pouring…
ME: (firmly and loudly) Mr. Ashcroft, do you believe that Yukio Asano’s sentence was unjust? Answer the question. (pause)
ASHCROFT: (more restrained) It’s not a fair question; there’s no comparison. Next question! (loud chorus of boos from the audience)
The kid’s got quite a future, don’t you think?
The last time I read about Ashcroft speaking at a college he was absurdly volunteering to be waterboarded. These war criminals can run, but they can’t hide.



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Yay!!
Pretty much proves he went along with it..
How’s yer Dutch, John?
Yeah, I hope this puts an end to all those thoughts of redeeming John Ashcroft because he said about the Principals’ Torture Club, “Why are we talking about this in the White House? History will not judge this kindly.”
His concern was for the optics, not the morality.
Indeed! I hope he volunteers to be water-boarded while I’m in the audience, I’m sick & tired of these people claiming it isn’t torture.
Brilliant! there’s hope yet :)
Three cheers for the citizen students!
Somebody dab him with Crisco.
It’s okay if it isn’t “forced”??…
Ummmm….holding you down and pouring water in your nose and mouth…is “forced”…
Or, what John, did they volunteer???
OT, but wasn’t Spizter looking into this when he got caught(entrapped) by his zipper?
‘Securities regulators refused a congressional request to disclose why they dropped an investigation into whether Bear Stearns Cos. Inc. harmed investors by improperly valuing complex debt securities.
The Securities and Exchange Commission cited confidentiality in its decision involving the late-stage probe of the Wall Street firm.
At issue is a move by the SEC to abort an enforcement case into activities at Bear Stearns several months before the firm imploded in March. The firm has agreed to be acquired for a fire-sale price by JPMorgan Chase & Co.’
http://www.theglobeandmail.com…..y/Business
The GOPers would just nickname him Slick and act proud of it.
Senate Reservations to Geneva Convention on Torture:
http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/usdocs/tortres.html
Is there a video of this? If so it needs to be seen by everyone in the land of Bush.
Yup, looks like catching him for sex was actually obstruction of justice…JMHO
I hope we see him, among others, in a court of law real soon.
“Justice delayed is justice denied.”
I think so, scroll down.
OT-House of Representatives is getting quite testy tonight. Republiclowns have been blaming Dems for gas prices, apparently that is the new strategy! It’s al Pelosi’s fault!
Maybe Ashcroft will have the time to work on his musical stylings in a federal prison, maybe even at the Hague (wishful thinking) with his fellow collaborators in torture.
Yeah, well as someone who does know anatomy, it is all about inhalation of water into the lungs. Whether you call that pouring or forcing it is all the same thing to the same end. You can also do a lot of damage to someone’s electrolyte balance by forcing lots of water into their stomach but this isn’t what waterboarding as used by us or the Japanese was about. Ashcroft next quibble will no doubt be, “But you didn’t specify what kind of cloth was put over their nose and mouth.”
He had best get an extended sentence in that case, going by the last time I heard him perform.
Partially true, imo, but not for the reasons the GOPs are claiming.
Impeach and humiliate already!
forcing sounds more violent than pouring anyway.
torture is torture and there is no doubt this is torture
Yes!!!
I’ll second that.
Elsinora’s Dkos Diary is well worth the Recommend
Sadly, that’s going to work for the Republics. Pelosi and the Democrats are remarkably unable to respond, even when the facts are on their side.
Don’t lose sight that the other enhanced techniques are just as much torture as the water boarding.
I registered americantorturemuseum.com the other day. It will tribute the many folks who tried to emulate the crimes of the inquisition.
Enjoy.
Exactly.
great debate and collage. Ashcroft, like all the neo-cons are hypocrite’s, justifying their evil lying ways with spin and more lies. how dumb do they think we are…
” If you can’t tell the difference between forcing and pouring.,,, jeez
Republicans in Minnesota are taking out video ads at gas stations blaming Democrats for increased gas prices. When your’e putting gas in your car the pump has a video with a message from the Republican Party blaming it all on the Democrats. Thinks it time for the Democrats to take the gloves off and expose the Republicans for the racist neo-fascists that they are. Lets take off the gloves and the fight the class war the way it should be fought, down and dirty and taking no prisoners.
John’s next Album
Ashcroft Sings – Yoos Blues
Damn! Why is it when women like this come along, I’m always already married?!
Aah, BT, you left out this part…
Here’s the text of the Senate reservations…
Please, please…may I have some more water flooding my nose and mouth…lovely, lovely…Oh, and would you mind not holding my body down so hard…thank you, thank you…lovely…gbrlererbbabbb..Ahhhhhgggg…lovely.
He’s been singing “Let the Eagle Pour”
Not in the traditional media, if it follows the Ashley Bancroft model of “Speak out and you’re out.” She should make quite a stir in high-quality blogs like FDL. Is a fellowship in the offing? Great way to market and institutionalize FDL’s presence and the journalistic credibility of blogs in general.
People should attend McCain public events and ask him at every opportunity the same question that woman asked Ashcroft. And get it on video. Macaca!
Or does McSame screen his audiences as carefully as Bush does?
OT Crude oil closed at $119.40/bbl again today, this despite the fact that Wednesday’s EIA report showed that crude oil stocks had increased by 2.4 million bbls last week. Gasoline inventories declined by 3.2 million but gas use is also declining. Another worrisome factor is that gasoline futures topped out at $3.0351 (Think of this as a kind of wholesale price but not quite). I don’t remember ever seeing them that high. That is not a good sign at all.
wouldn’t the whole pouring versus forced (water) fall under physics and not anatomy?
Have we ever seen gas futures go down between Apr 15 and Memorial Day?
Or an unpaid weekly guest blogger slot for a month or semester? Kristoff made a credible go of it for a short time. Surely FDL could do a more thorough job of encouraging the next generation of top-notch bloggers.
Also a good excuse to fundraise before progressives are spent supporting their candidates in November.
Only the part about holding the mouth open or not…or that pesky involuntary breathing bit.
That idea is quite good. McInsane would melt down before our very eyes.
The only way to stop this crappola is for the truckers and all of the drivers in the US to just stop driving or have a major slowdown for a couple of days…that would impact the corporations…who would then put pressure on the government to take some action. The truckers hold the key. JMHO
or was he referring to the effects on the body? Even then, it’s still a physics question as to pressure, or?
Mr. Ashcroft would spill his guts if he inhaled a swallow of Perrier. He’s just running for cover before his oh-so-Christian soul catches up with what his mortal coil has been doing and authorizing others to do.
The key word in the Yoo memo I believe and also in Bradbury’s Congressional testimony is “lasting”. “Lasting”them means “organ failure or death.”
Is this on YouTube? It belongs in a dem campaign ad.
ahhhh okay so this is in reference to the position the person being tortured. got it. thanks
Seasonal fluctuations are one thing. This is something else.
O/T
McCain fails to vote on defeated equal pay for women Senate bill
McCain fails to vote on defeated equal pay for women Senate bill
linky here
Throw it into the McSame “futures” file..
Will do
i have a file on him
It’s that, the breathing reflex that makes waterboarding work. The reflex forces us to try to breathe even if all we can inhale is water into our lungs.
there are people lying on my teevee again
Great story– a small part of what these felons deserve- but public humiliation is a pretty good start.
what a brave brave man.
good on her. we should never be timid and should always confront these maniacs
So Ashcrack was implying that the Japanese FORCED the water- like with a FIRE HOSE?
Guess still has the lawyer’s instinct for lookin fer a loophole.
Gawd, it makes me hyperventilate…
This is a thing of beauty alright.
Ashcroft doesn’t have a corner to run to and nailing him like that is frikkin genius!
According to Cheney’s logic, McCain would be “trained” and “preconditioned” now to withstand our enhanced interrogation techniques.
But not one of these war criminals can answer a straight yes or no question voluntarily.
if only that were true, they don’t even have to hide, there will be no trials for these criminals
digg Elsinore’s Diary here
and digg Blue Texan too
*spew* hahahaha ashcrack
Impressive.
Well you can cause very painful distension of the stomach by forcing water down into it, but I read the list of charges in the Japanese trials recently and it seems that they were doing something much more like waterboarding.
Sam’s Club limiting rice purchases to 4 bags (of course those are 25 pound bags).
In some countries rice consumption has been reduced to zero- no rice- no food.
Is it possible that this is primarily the result of GW Clusterfuck and fellow politicians agreeing to increase the production of ethynol just in order to get the votes in Iowa and Nebraska- even though they no full well that the move does nothing for either the environment or gas prices?
Is is possible that politicians would starve a good chunk of the world for a few votes?
How do you digg a Kos diary? I don’t see a digg button.
Or did you mean recommend?
Bush administration officials should be ashamed to show their faces in public.
Since they have no shame, it is useful for others to shame them anywhere and everywhere.
This means you, Scooter, Karl, Doug F., etc.
That’d be MY guess- and undoubtedly Ashcrack knew it- but any port in the storm for a Lawyer in a Gale.
One of my relatives was held in a Japanese Prisoner of War Camp. God only knows what happened to him there, he didn’t come home.
It’s ethanol but also hedge fund driven futures speculation in the commodities markets including grains.
I think what might be happening is that people who have families in other countries are trying to buy a lot in bulk to ship overseas….places like Haiti…kind of a run on stores like Sam’s Club…or they are gonna try to sell it on the black market. JMHO
Ashcroft at rowdy Knox College added one or two days ago
Ashcrack found that “Anatomy” was the first subject that came to mind- probably because he had a certain portion of HIS (anatomy) in a crack.
I should include big futures traders among the culprits as well in the bid up in agricultural commodity prices.
both,
Recommmend it there
and here’s the link for the digg
one easy way to find the link to a digg btw is to click on submit new at digg and enter the url of the story you are interested in.
Sorry, it was added three hours ago. It seems to include the just/unjust part of the Japanese question, although I have no idea if the speaker in the video is the same as the person quoted above. The video unfortunately edits out the meltdown. But the students are quite vocal!!!
blue and ctuttle at 32—-the ’quick switch’ offense, beauuuuuuutiful……thanks for adding that ctuttle……that’s a beaut…
wow, 20 years old with more composure than a former attorney general ashcroft-long career of bait and switch….she beat him at the outset with the ’quick switch’, got him off balance……great strategy…..
glad that young woman’s on my side….
wow
p.s. and the blow-by-blow torture details, and the making fun of them, i can do without.
KO has it!!!! It’s gonna be in Worst Persons…
KO just made mention of this on his show (well it’s coming up)
Must be payin Ashcrack a ton to go through this humiliation eh? Wonder what he’d charge to swim the length of an olymipic sized pool filled with steamin piss an topped with five truckloads of fresh Lion Turds.
your so quick *g*
dmac’s mad at me…:(
“Kid”? She’s almost 21 and about to be married. Are we showing our age? Well, OK, from where I sit, anyone under the age of 25 might be a kid, although I wouldn’t say it to her face.
Nevertheless, Kudos to Elsinore. We may have another emptywheel in the making. She not only asks good questions, but she is tenacious, persistent, and refuses to be intimidated.
Bob in HI
do i LOVE KO or what?! THE bright slot pn misnbc til they give rachel her own slot…………. jus sayin lol
OK, that link gets me to the Kos page where the diary is.
But I still don’t see a digg button.
I did recommend it.
me – dummy that should say on misnbc
O/T but it wrestled a giggle out of me. Per TPM (Josh marshall)
Clinton campaign chairman Terry McAuliffe fluffs Fox News so hard they’ve made him into the new network promo …
link
huh, why?
Yes, and I really wish they would give Rachel a slot…at least she’s gotten this far…
Great post, BT! Always good to see someone make a fool of Ashcroft, or any Bushy, for that matter!
As usual, late to the party, but I was wondering if anyone saw James Spader’s Supreme Court rant last night in his role as Alan Shore? Wow! I hadn’t realized half of what he ranted on about! For progressives, I call this must see TV. I wish the transcript was out, but maybe in a few days? I’m gonna see if it’s on You Tube. Wanna see it again.
LS-no i’m not
Someone tell me what KO says. I was watching “Countdown” but now have switched to “Max & Ruby” on demand.
Yes, babysitting.
I’m so sorry to have given the wrong linky!
here’s the proper link to the digg
I imagine in my mind that she didn’t like my snark way above about torture not being “forceful”…I was just pointing out the incredible absurdity of such a statement by Ashcroft….Maybe she wasn’t referring to my comments at all..I dunno…I’m probably just paranoid…I hope.
Whew!!! *g*
Ew, Cheney on my teevee ack!
see, paranoid *g*
dugg.
thanks, Elliott.
My understanding is that water is “forced” into the lungs during water boarding. It is done by the “involuntary reflex” of gasping for air. The rag or gag prevents the mouth from closing and thus the individual canb’t hold their breath. Thus they are “forced” to inhale the water…it is forced into the lungs…it is hardly “voluntary”.
Those who undertake and instruct in SERES workshops refer to it as “non-lethal drowning”. For Ashcroft to deny that water is forced into the lungs…would be equivalent to saying that one didn’t “force” someone to jump out of a building by setting a fire behind them. “They didn’t have to jump!”
Speaking of torture, etc., I guess you’ve all seen this:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/….._0423.html
Torture and rendition are going to be the Achilles heel of these people…
McCain opposes the new G.I. bill…what a guy…Yay…elect him..
shrub was on a game show? was he the booby prize? he surely wasn’t answering questions
Buuuuut he has his on version now.
OT—looks like the fine young woman who showed such elan will now look forward to getting a job, get less pay, and not be able to do a damn thing about it…perfectly legal to do it to her as long as she doesn’t find out, and then when she does, well, it’s legal, so what’s her problem?….cuz the supreme court said it was ok to pay her less, and now the senate said is okey dokey, too.
noone has been able to tell me what is in the bill that wasn’t ’ok’, it only had two years retroactive……
this is so depressing i can’t stand it…..and harry reid voted ’nay’
this was a chance to right a wrong
here’s the vote-
http://www.senate.gov/legislat…..vote=00110
did you see Wexler’s questioning of Mueller on what the FBI did once they learned the CIA was torturing human beings?
here’s his dairy:
Rep. Wexler Diary: FBI Torture Cover-Up?
All things torture…A perfect storm brewing…
Mueller = Schultz…I know nothing…
Oh lovely. As if i already don’t know that i’m underpaid enough, this just ads insult to injury. Morons, all of them.
OH BABY!
man, that’s hind sight but someone will be ready with that follow up in the future I am sure
Yeah, his version would require longer service to be eligible for less amounts than Webb’s bill… He needs the longer service requirements to continue the 100 year war…! F*cker…!
“do i LOVE KO or what?! THE bright slot pn misnbc til they give rachel her own slot…………. jus sayin lol”
IMHO, Rachel does better as KO’s guest than in KO’s chair. KO does a better job as anchor of an MSM news show, but Rachel provides lively and feisty commentary very effectively. I’d prefer that she gets more minutes as a guest being “interviewed” by KO. Besides, their chemistry is good.
Bob in HI
but–but–but I thought he supported the troops!
shrub was on a game show? was he the booby prize? he surely wasn’t answering questions
I’ll take Petulant and Arrogant Uniltateral Torture-condoning Tyrants for fifty, Alex.
Let me guess….Ashcroft anointed himself with oil (like he did when he got done at the Justice Department) to remember this moment, because in his mind, he thinks he won this argument?
What an asshole.
This is the same guy who stopped flying commercially before 9/11 and when the media asked why he basically said, “Just because”. He (and they!) knew 9/11 was coming but forget to alert Americans to that fact. He hates America. The End.
Harry Reid voted nay!
“in his mind, he thinks he won this argument?”
___________
He got punked.
I dugg the post on KOS and commented “More ammunition for Impeachment proceedings!! Ashcroft admitting that “waterboarding” was and is used by this administration. He tries to parse the question by saying it was “pouring water nad not forcing water… Oh give me a fucking break the VICTIM has no choice but to try and breath… the results are the same… what a fuckhead!”
Impeach NOW!!
I hope Nancy reads all about this!
wow
On KO with Rachel maddox
The fact that McCain has negatively commented on the North Carolina Repug party ad and Hillary has not…what does that say about her campaign?
Okay, I’m going to hope that she says something before the evening is over. I have optimism because no dem is going to go there with another dem when the repugs come a knocking
Bwahahahahahahaha
heh. college students show up the Reich.
Keith’s on this very story, BT! Coming up in worst persons section.
okay BT the worse persons with this story is coming up
what is the difference between getting “pwned” and getting “punked”?
a middle-aged popular-culture-challenged FDL reader wants to know.
I received from Congressman Wexler today the following from this mornings hearing:
you and LS are fast LOL she beat me to it that last time *g*
Don’t panic. It was probably a procedural/strategic vote so that Harry can bring it up again at a later date. The Majority Leadres of both parties do that often when something they favor is not going to make it the first time.
Hey Elliot! You taking over for punaise?
Knox college got out of hand last night when asked about the difference between what the japanese did and what the americans have done.
apples and oranges…japanese forced and we poured
Republican Sen. John McCain, campaigning through poverty-stricken cities and towns, said Wednesday he opposes a Senate bill that seeks equal pay for women because it would lead to more lawsuits.
Senate Republicans killed the bill Wednesday night on a 56-42 vote that denied the measure the 60 votes needed to advance it to full debate and a vote. Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., had delayed the vote to give McCain’s Democratic rivals, Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama, time to return to Washington to support the measure, which would make it easier for women to sue their employers for pay discrimination.
McCain skipped the vote to campaign in New Orleans.
snip>
“And it’s hard for them to leave their families when they don’t have somebody to take care of them.” John’ll take care of you, think about it…
McCain is a Clown!!! (The AP report is here too.)
Yep. Like Grandma Nancy keeping the Free Trade with Colombian union-murderers agreement alive once the House had defeated it on fast track.
Shrub made a pre-recorded video-taped appearance on Deal Or No Deal. His face appeared on the giant screen like the wizard. Then he said a lot of typical warmongering hero patriotic crap and a few stupid jokes that someone had written for him.
Oh my no!
I can’t touch that, but he is an inspiration.
ha! his tour is a glowing success, huh?
no one threw pudding at the jumbotron?
No essential difference, really. Though, “punked” is more or less gang/prison slang. Gettin’ punked in the joint, is, well, “gettin’ your shit pushed back.”
but ls points out that of course we forced, these people didn’t volunteer to get water poured down their throat now did they
*g* But I confess to skipping through the comments. Now I’ll always wonder what I missed.
it’s a race to the bottom!
I’m with you but we already know the guy is a jackass
Wiki:
Only if you would like to be verbally abused. I feel a little sorry for his wife, I’ll bet her Dad was domineering prick, too. I can’t really imagine a successful man in that line of work being anything less. It very well could explain her need for self medication, a subject I know more than a little about…
Found the You Tube I was looking for. For some reason I don’t seem to be able to do links outside of FDL, so I’ll just let you cut and paste the website: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GG7sj2APpc
Hope you guys watch it; if not, your loss.
ashcroft is not gonna be making any ad lib appearances ever again
man, I would love to ask him next time. “so since we didn’t force the water down their throats you atre saying they volunteered?
Ls is a genious
i feel bad that she is treated that way but she’s the one with the benjamins, she could leave his butt with nothing but his senatorial money and his ‘base’
Kirk, It’s not the same thing and you know it. The Senate rules require the Majority Leader to vote in that fashion. That’s why Bill Frist wound up voting No on Cloture for some of the Court nominees when he was the ML previously.
I did not see the vote but would wager that Reid initially voted Yes on the Cloture and flipped his vote after it became obvious the Cloture would fail. I think it has something to do with standing to bring the bill back later. If he had let his Yes vote stand, he can’t bring it back. By being on record as a “No” for cloture, I believe it gives him standing to bring it back later.
There was tremendous applause and not a boo in the house. Must have been a pre-screened audience. Howie Mandell pretended that it was a live interaction. Bush stated that he had to work on a multi billion dollar budget, not a measly one million dollars. Then he asked Howie if he would like to have to work on a budget that size. Howie then answered the recorded voice of Bush on cue, to facilitate the illusion that it was a live call. “No sir, said Howie, you have the mightiest codpiece in the land.”
neuro and bobbyg–the difference is intent…
’punked’ is in front of your face.
’pawned’ is behind your back.
not that he would answer. he would just bluter and shout something about produce differential
I was better watching this last night… but it was still great! I have already sent this to all on the email list… We here just loved Spader is my hero!
eureka at 30–just saw that, i wasn’t reading comments too closely…..saw it as page was loading……
that was funny.
Maybe they were thirsty.
hmmm pudding would have been much better.
*shaking head* lemme guess, the contestant was military (it’s the only way it could be more trasparent)
Always something new to learn on the site.
dakine at 148–i forgot about that, there does have to be a ’d’ on the nays……once they know it’s gonna fall.
sorry.
dakine01, i apologize – i was mocking nancy’s cave in.
and you are quite correct; the two actions are not he same.
my bad for the failed attempt at humor.
Well, there are plenty enough reasons to trash Harry and Nancy both that we don’t need for folks to think there are reasons when they’re not there.
Yes. Military contestant. Howie surprised him with the Shrub. Howie said, we have a true American Hero to speak with you tonite the POTUS. Then great fanfare, and then Bush called the guy a hero and all the military heroes, fightin’ the GWOT, etc. men and Women in uniform, etc., noble cause, etc, barb and I are pulling for you. I’m glad to be on Deal OR No Deal, with my aprroval ratings I can use all the help i can get by bein on a poplar show… (for real, he said that)
Now Shrub and Barb are on American Idol! Same deal – prerecorded video message thanking Amer. Idol for Idol Gives Back Charity event.
Agreed. Please consider my lame joke “tabled”.
Agree. Spader is great in that role. He’s done many memorable speeches on subjects near and dear to most of our hearts on that show. Just a few weeks ago, he was eloquent about euthanasia. But I really loved his rant on the Supreme Court and how skewed they’ve become on last night’s show. I learned a lot, too; always a plus. They sure did their homework!
They know that torture is a crime. They know that the authorization for “whatever the did” went gith up the chain of command to the executive branch and all the biggies in the DOJ, CIA, FBI. All knew and all remained silent or agreed to it or agreed to not exposed “whatever the did” as being unlawful
That, is essentially, proof that they know that they broke the law and they are parsing idiotic legal arguments.
What has to happen is that a case needs to be brought against the whole lot of these thugs from the very top to the grunts who did these torture sessions and let them tell it to the Hague that the DOJ said it was “legal” and see if that stands. If it does they are without guilt. But they most likely WILL be found guilty of torture and crimes against humanity.
Why the hell doesn’t the Hague press a case and even try the in absentia?????????????? These guys are guilty as the days is long and they know it.
This is a disgrace.
And
Not one person held in Gitmo has had anything resembling a trial. Wouldn’t that make them “innocent until proven guilty in our legal system? 6 years is a long time to bring some one to trial. Doesn’t the constitution guarantee a speedy trial?
I never knew that Ashcroft was so fucking passionate… Did he break out into a song???
nope, just the usual rash sentiments
Oh, I see. We don’t force feed prisoners water through water boarding we just “pour” them a nice cool drink of water (gallons and gallons through their nose and mouth while they’re imobilized). Now who could object to just “pouring” them a drink of water? Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Maybe it’s good to see Ashcroft getting so worked up. Maybe it means that he’s starting to feel things closing in on all of them and he’s worried. Well, one can wish, can’t they?
interesting, an american website… thinking of 9/11 attacks… waterboarding has already prevented americans from being violently murdered. Without waterboarding would these further attacks have been prevented? maybe maybe not.
Waterboarding is very very very unlikely to cause death. If it is regulated ie overseen properly it is almost impossible to cause death. Any recorded deaths were probably deliberate suffocation.
SO GO FOR IT: PROTEST AGAINST SAVING AMERICAN LIVES. not.
Ashcroft will probably wish one day that he had not stood in the way of the Bush domestic spying (back in the hospital when the Comey/Gonzalez/Card fracas took place), because without the complete breakdown of the US Constitutional system, he will do some time for war crimes and the like.
He sang “Let the Eagle Pour”
You need to get your head out of where it is and ask your self if it had been done to you would you consider it torture?? That method of interrogation has been outlawed longer than you have been alive, take your ideas and leave this country for a third world country where they don’t respect an individuals rights…
[Mod Note; Comment edited by Moderator. Please do not insult other commenters. Thank you.]
well…
a. im not in or from America
b. do i want to experience waterboarding? no way. (but if i was arrested in suspicion of being a terrorist then i would expect it) (its not dangerous if carried out properly)
c. torture is an umbrella term… you cant use that as an argument as it is self defining,,, you need to define what torture is…
d. to get rid of this method of ‘questioning’/’torture’ there needs to be a replacement, so that lives can carry on being saved…
e. outlawed where, law possibly out of date for 21st century…
f. i hope you dont want americans to be violently murdered. If you do then your argument stands.
God bless America
It doesn’t work – All branches of the US Military say so, and it’s in writing in the field manual.
It’s illegal under US and International law, and isn’t contingent on time, place, or date.
It opens up US citizens and soldiers to the same treatment under the rubric of “imminent danger.”
Torture as defined by the Spanish Inquisition should be good enough for the whole planet.
And legality in any nation or convention is clearly besides the point. It is inhumane. It does equal or greater harm to the torturer as to the tortured. And there is no standard by any measure in any nation, ruled by any tyrant, under which it is not just plain wrong.
but they also say it does… there are countless sources saying that it does work, within the US military… if you are convinced you are about to die, you may or may not give information.
the third one ok… that is a secondary argument
again… *sigh* you need to define torture
Say if it works – i dont know if it does, (iv read stuff that says that it both does and does not) which probably means it has a limited success rate. so where does one draw the line of ‘torture’… being kept in a cramp dark cell? having to wear an orange jump suit… not getting gin seng tea chilled over 3 ice cubes… being beaten and raped by US prison officers/ soldiers… being photographed and paraded over world media… where is the line? My line would be drawn where there is as little mental scarring as possible and no permanent physical damage. i.e. obviously a tough decision.
But if waterboarding saves successfully attains life saving intelegence, then it should continue…
yes?