Hats off, ladies and gents -- a real thing of beauty.
Check out how this 20-year old coed completely corners, traps, and ultimately pwns the former attorney general of the United States. In a public forum, no less.
ME: After WWII, the Tokyo Tribunal was basically the Nuremberg Trials for Japan. Many Japanese leaders were put on trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity, including torture. And among the tortures listed was the "water treatment," which we nowadays call waterboarding...
ASHCROFT: (interrupting) This is a speech, not a question. I don't mind, but it's not a question.
ME: It will be, sir, just give me a moment. The judgment describes this water treatment, and I quote, "the victim was bound or otherwise secured in a prone position; and water was forced through his mouth and nostrils into his lungs and stomach." One man, Yukio Asano, was sentenced to fifteen years hard labor by the allies for waterboarding American troops to obtain information. Since Yukio Asano was trying to get information to help defend his country--exactly what you, Mr. Ashcroft, say is acceptible for Americans to do--do you believe that his sentence was unjust? (boisterous applause and shouts of "Good question!")
ASHCROFT: (angrily) Now, listen here. You're comparing apples and oranges, apples and oranges. We don't do anything like what you described.
ME: I'm sorry, I was under the impression that we still use the method of putting a cloth over someone's face and pouring water down their throat...
ASHCROFT: (interrupting, red-faced, shouting) Pouring! Pouring! Did you hear what she said? "Putting a cloth over someone's face and pouring water on them." That's not what you said before! Read that again, what you said before!
ME: Sir, other reports of the time say...
ASHCROFT: (shouting) Read what you said before! (cries of "Answer her fucking question!" from the audience) Read it!
ME: (firmly) Mr. Ashcroft, please answer the question.
ASHCROFT: (shouting) Read it back!
ME: "The victim was bound or otherwise secured in a prone position; and water was forced through his mouth and nostrils into his lungs and stomach."
ASHCROFT: (shouting) You hear that? You hear it? "Forced!" If you can't tell the difference between forcing and pouring...does this college have an anatomy class? If you can't tell the difference between forcing and pouring...
ME: (firmly and loudly) Mr. Ashcroft, do you believe that Yukio Asano's sentence was unjust? Answer the question. (pause)
ASHCROFT: (more restrained) It's not a fair question; there's no comparison. Next question! (loud chorus of boos from the audience)
The kid's got quite a future, don't you think?
The last time I read about Ashcroft speaking at a college he was absurdly volunteering to be waterboarded. These war criminals can run, but they can't hide.
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Yay!!
Pretty much proves he went along with it..
How’s yer Dutch, John?
Yeah, I hope this puts an end to all those thoughts of redeeming John Ashcroft because he said about the Principals’ Torture Club, “Why are we talking about this in the White House? History will not judge this kindly.”
His concern was for the optics, not the morality.
Indeed! I hope he volunteers to be water-boarded while I’m in the audience, I’m sick & tired of these people claiming it isn’t torture.
Brilliant! there’s hope yet :)
Three cheers for the citizen students!
Somebody dab him with Crisco.
It’s okay if it isn’t “forced”??…
Ummmm….holding you down and pouring water in your nose and mouth…is “forced”…
Or, what John, did they volunteer???
OT, but wasn’t Spizter looking into this when he got caught(entrapped) by his zipper?
‘Securities regulators refused a congressional request to disclose why they dropped an investigation into whether Bear Stearns Cos. Inc. harmed investors by improperly valuing complex debt securities.
The Securities and Exchange Commission cited confidentiality in its decision involving the late-stage probe of the Wall Street firm.
At issue is a move by the SEC to abort an enforcement case into activities at Bear Stearns several months before the firm imploded in March. The firm has agreed to be acquired for a fire-sale price by JPMorgan Chase & Co.’
http://www.theglobeandmail.com.....y/Business
The GOPers would just nickname him Slick and act proud of it.
Senate Reservations to Geneva Convention on Torture:
http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/usdocs/tortres.html
Is there a video of this? If so it needs to be seen by everyone in the land of Bush.
Yup, looks like catching him for sex was actually obstruction of justice…JMHO
I hope we see him, among others, in a court of law real soon.
“Justice delayed is justice denied.”
I think so, scroll down.
OT-House of Representatives is getting quite testy tonight. Republiclowns have been blaming Dems for gas prices, apparently that is the new strategy! It’s al Pelosi’s fault!
Maybe Ashcroft will have the time to work on his musical stylings in a federal prison, maybe even at the Hague (wishful thinking) with his fellow collaborators in torture.
Yeah, well as someone who does know anatomy, it is all about inhalation of water into the lungs. Whether you call that pouring or forcing it is all the same thing to the same end. You can also do a lot of damage to someone’s electrolyte balance by forcing lots of water into their stomach but this isn’t what waterboarding as used by us or the Japanese was about. Ashcroft next quibble will no doubt be, “But you didn’t specify what kind of cloth was put over their nose and mouth.”
He had best get an extended sentence in that case, going by the last time I heard him perform.
Partially true, imo, but not for the reasons the GOPs are claiming.
Impeach and humiliate already!
forcing sounds more violent than pouring anyway.
torture is torture and there is no doubt this is torture
Yes!!!
I’ll second that.
Elsinora’s Dkos Diary is well worth the Recommend
Sadly, that’s going to work for the Republics. Pelosi and the Democrats are remarkably unable to respond, even when the facts are on their side.
Don’t lose sight that the other enhanced techniques are just as much torture as the water boarding.
I registered americantorturemuseum.com the other day. It will tribute the many folks who tried to emulate the crimes of the inquisition.
Enjoy.
Exactly.
great debate and collage. Ashcroft, like all the neo-cons are hypocrite’s, justifying their evil lying ways with spin and more lies. how dumb do they think we are…
” If you can’t tell the difference between forcing and pouring.,,, jeez
Republicans in Minnesota are taking out video ads at gas stations blaming Democrats for increased gas prices. When your’e putting gas in your car the pump has a video with a message from the Republican Party blaming it all on the Democrats. Thinks it time for the Democrats to take the gloves off and expose the Republicans for the racist neo-fascists that they are. Lets take off the gloves and the fight the class war the way it should be fought, down and dirty and taking no prisoners.
John’s next Album
Ashcroft Sings - Yoos Blues
Damn! Why is it when women like this come along, I’m always already married?!
Aah, BT, you left out this part…
Here’s the text of the Senate reservations…
Please, please…may I have some more water flooding my nose and mouth…lovely, lovely…Oh, and would you mind not holding my body down so hard…thank you, thank you…lovely…gbrlererbbabbb..Ahhhhhgggg…lovely.
He’s been singing “Let the Eagle Pour”
Not in the traditional media, if it follows the Ashley Bancroft model of “Speak out and you’re out.” She should make quite a stir in high-quality blogs like FDL. Is a fellowship in the offing? Great way to market and institutionalize FDL’s presence and the journalistic credibility of blogs in general.
People should attend McCain public events and ask him at every opportunity the same question that woman asked Ashcroft. And get it on video. Macaca!
Or does McSame screen his audiences as carefully as Bush does?
OT Crude oil closed at $119.40/bbl again today, this despite the fact that Wednesday’s EIA report showed that crude oil stocks had increased by 2.4 million bbls last week. Gasoline inventories declined by 3.2 million but gas use is also declining. Another worrisome factor is that gasoline futures topped out at $3.0351 (Think of this as a kind of wholesale price but not quite). I don’t remember ever seeing them that high. That is not a good sign at all.
wouldn’t the whole pouring versus forced (water) fall under physics and not anatomy?
Have we ever seen gas futures go down between Apr 15 and Memorial Day?
Or an unpaid weekly guest blogger slot for a month or semester? Kristoff made a credible go of it for a short time. Surely FDL could do a more thorough job of encouraging the next generation of top-notch bloggers.
Also a good excuse to fundraise before progressives are spent supporting their candidates in November.
Only the part about holding the mouth open or not…or that pesky involuntary breathing bit.
That idea is quite good. McInsane would melt down before our very eyes.
The only way to stop this crappola is for the truckers and all of the drivers in the US to just stop driving or have a major slowdown for a couple of days…that would impact the corporations…who would then put pressure on the government to take some action. The truckers hold the key. JMHO
or was he referring to the effects on the body? Even then, it’s still a physics question as to pressure, or?
Mr. Ashcroft would spill his guts if he inhaled a swallow of Perrier. He’s just running for cover before his oh-so-Christian soul catches up with what his mortal coil has been doing and authorizing others to do.
The key word in the Yoo memo I believe and also in Bradbury’s Congressional testimony is “lasting”. “Lasting”them means “organ failure or death.”
Is this on YouTube? It belongs in a dem campaign ad.
ahhhh okay so this is in reference to the position the person being tortured. got it. thanks
Seasonal fluctuations are one thing. This is something else.
O/T
McCain fails to vote on defeated equal pay for women Senate bill
McCain fails to vote on defeated equal pay for women Senate bill
linky here
Throw it into the McSame “futures” file..
Will do
i have a file on him
It’s that, the breathing reflex that makes waterboarding work. The reflex forces us to try to breathe even if all we can inhale is water into our lungs.
there are people lying on my teevee again
Great story– a small part of what these felons deserve- but public humiliation is a pretty good start.
what a brave brave man.
good on her. we should never be timid and should always confront these maniacs
So Ashcrack was implying that the Japanese FORCED the water- like with a FIRE HOSE?
Guess still has the lawyer’s instinct for lookin fer a loophole.
Gawd, it makes me hyperventilate…
This is a thing of beauty alright.
Ashcroft doesn’t have a corner to run to and nailing him like that is frikkin genius!
According to Cheney’s logic, McCain would be “trained” and “preconditioned” now to withstand our enhanced interrogation techniques.
But not one of these war criminals can answer a straight yes or no question voluntarily.
if only that were true, they don’t even have to hide, there will be no trials for these criminals
digg Elsinore’s Diary here
and digg Blue Texan too
*spew* hahahaha ashcrack
Impressive.
Well you can cause very painful distension of the stomach by forcing water down into it, but I read the list of charges in the Japanese trials recently and it seems that they were doing something much more like waterboarding.
Sam’s Club limiting rice purchases to 4 bags (of course those are 25 pound bags).
In some countries rice consumption has been reduced to zero- no rice- no food.
Is it possible that this is primarily the result of GW Clusterfuck and fellow politicians agreeing to increase the production of ethynol just in order to get the votes in Iowa and Nebraska- even though they no full well that the move does nothing for either the environment or gas prices?
Is is possible that politicians would starve a good chunk of the world for a few votes?
How do you digg a Kos diary? I don’t see a digg button.
Or did you mean recommend?
Bush administration officials should be ashamed to show their faces in public.
Since they have no shame, it is useful for others to shame them anywhere and everywhere.
This means you, Scooter, Karl, Doug F., etc.
That’d be MY guess- and undoubtedly Ashcrack knew it- but any port in the storm for a Lawyer in a Gale.
One of my relatives was held in a Japanese Prisoner of War Camp. God only knows what happened to him there, he didn’t come home.
It’s ethanol but also hedge fund driven futures speculation in the commodities markets including grains.
I think what might be happening is that people who have families in other countries are trying to buy a lot in bulk to ship overseas….places like Haiti…kind of a run on stores like Sam’s Club…or they are gonna try to sell it on the black market. JMHO
Ashcroft at rowdy Knox College added one or two days ago
Ashcrack found that “Anatomy” was the first subject that came to mind- probably because he had a certain portion of HIS (anatomy) in a crack.
I should include big futures traders among the culprits as well in the bid up in agricultural commodity prices.
both,
Recommmend it there
and here’s the link for the digg
one easy way to find the link to a digg btw is to click on submit new at digg and enter the url of the story you are interested in.
Sorry, it was added three hours ago. It seems to include the just/unjust part of the Japanese question, although I have no idea if the speaker in the video is the same as the person quoted above. The video unfortunately edits out the meltdown. But the students are quite vocal!!!
blue and ctuttle at 32—-the ’quick switch’ offense, beauuuuuuutiful……thanks for adding that ctuttle……that’s a beaut…
wow, 20 years old with more composure than a former attorney general ashcroft-long career of bait and switch….she beat him at the outset with the ’quick switch’, got him off balance……great strategy…..
glad that young woman’s on my side….
wow
p.s. and the blow-by-blow torture details, and the making fun of them, i can do without.
KO has it!!!! It’s gonna be in Worst Persons…
KO just made mention of this on his show (well it’s coming up)
Must be payin Ashcrack a ton to go through this humiliation eh? Wonder what he’d charge to swim the length of an olymipic sized pool filled with steamin piss an topped with five truckloads of fresh Lion Turds.
your so quick *g*
dmac’s mad at me…:(
“Kid”? She’s almost 21 and about to be married. Are we showing our age? Well, OK, from where I sit, anyone under the age of 25 might be a kid, although I wouldn’t say it to her face.
Nevertheless, Kudos to Elsinore. We may have another emptywheel in the making. She not only asks good questions, but she is tenacious, persistent, and refuses to be intimidated.
Bob in HI
do i LOVE KO or what?! THE bright slot pn misnbc til they give rachel her own slot…………. jus sayin lol
OK, that link gets me to the Kos page where the diary is.
But I still don’t see a digg button.
I did recommend it.
me - dummy that should say on misnbc
O/T but it wrestled a giggle out of me. Per TPM (Josh marshall)
Clinton campaign chairman Terry McAuliffe fluffs Fox News so hard they’ve made him into the new network promo …
link
huh, why?
Yes, and I really wish they would give Rachel a slot…at least she’s gotten this far…
Great post, BT! Always good to see someone make a fool of Ashcroft, or any Bushy, for that matter!
As usual, late to the party, but I was wondering if anyone saw James Spader’s Supreme Court rant last night in his role as Alan Shore? Wow! I hadn’t realized half of what he ranted on about! For progressives, I call this must see TV. I wish the transcript was out, but maybe in a few days? I’m gonna see if it’s on You Tube. Wanna see it again.
LS-no i’m not
Someone tell me what KO says. I was watching “Countdown” but now have switched to “Max & Ruby” on demand.
Yes, babysitting.
I’m so sorry to have given the wrong linky!
here’s the proper link to the digg
I imagine in my mind that she didn’t like my snark way above about torture not being “forceful”…I was just pointing out the incredible absurdity of such a statement by Ashcroft….Maybe she wasn’t referring to my comments at all..I dunno…I’m probably just paranoid…I hope.
Whew!!! *g*
Ew, Cheney on my teevee ack!
see, paranoid *g*
dugg.
thanks, Elliott.
My understanding is that water is “forced” into the lungs during water boarding. It is done by the “involuntary reflex” of gasping for air. The rag or gag prevents the mouth from closing and thus the individual canb’t hold their breath. Thus they are “forced” to inhale the water…it is forced into the lungs…it is hardly “voluntary”.
Those who undertake and instruct in SERES workshops refer to it as “non-lethal drowning”. For Ashcroft to deny that water is forced into the lungs…would be equivalent to saying that one didn’t “force” someone to jump out of a building by setting a fire behind them. “They didn’t have to jump!”
Speaking of torture, etc., I guess you’ve all seen this:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/....._0423.html
Torture and rendition are going to be the Achilles heel of these people…
McCain opposes the new G.I. bill…what a guy…Yay…elect him..
shrub was on a game show? was he the booby prize? he surely wasn’t answering questions
Buuuuut he has his on version now.
OT—looks like the fine young woman who showed such elan will now look forward to getting a job, get less pay, and not be able to do a damn thing about it…perfectly legal to do it to her as long as she doesn’t find out, and then when she does, well, it’s legal, so what’s her problem?….cuz the supreme court said it was ok to pay her less, and now the senate said is okey dokey, too.
noone has been able to tell me what is in the bill that wasn’t ’ok’, it only had two years retroactive……
this is so depressing i can’t stand it…..and harry reid voted ’nay’
this was a chance to right a wrong
here’s the vote-
http://www.senate.gov/legislat.....vote=00110
did you see Wexler’s questioning of Mueller on what the FBI did once they learned the CIA was torturing human beings?
here’s his dairy:
Rep. Wexler Diary: FBI Torture Cover-Up?
All things torture…A perfect storm brewing…
Mueller = Schultz…I know nothing…
Oh lovely. As if i already don’t know that i’m underpaid enough, this just ads insult to injury. Morons, all of them.
OH BABY!
man, that’s hind sight but someone will be ready with that follow up in the future I am sure
Yeah, his version would require longer service to be eligible for less amounts than Webb’s bill… He needs the longer service requirements to continue the 100 year war…! F*cker…!
“do i LOVE KO or what?! THE bright slot pn misnbc til they give rachel her own slot…………. jus sayin lol”
IMHO, Rachel does better as KO’s guest than in KO’s chair. KO does a better job as anchor of an MSM news show, but Rachel provides lively and feisty commentary very effectively. I’d prefer that she gets more minutes as a guest being “interviewed” by KO. Besides, their chemistry is good.
Bob in HI