Obama!

Give it up, Hill!

So the media whip up a big-ass circus

I think you misplaced the hyphen.

What dharmarific said!

Well said Mr N!

off to the next race

Fineman (fwiw) sez Elizabeth Edwards may start showing up at Hillary Clinton events in NC.

Eli, heh ;-)

Followup to Obama link in last, the Clinton campaing sends the following:

A clip of HRC’s speech: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co-BmVFQ2Vw

The NYT has just posted a positively lethal editorial denouncing Clinton’s low road campaign. It’s the beginning of the end for her.

As to the pundits, I watched around 8:30 for roughly five minutes, which was enough to remind me why I never watch Teevee news. I read here about how bad it is, and tonight saw for myself. It’s godawful. I can’t imagine the networks can sustain this tripe for much longer. Even ordinary people are sure to get fed up with it.

That certainly is her pergogative heavens knows we will need the medical insurance if folks are starting nuke attacks

LOL, I just got an eamil from a friend of mine in germany. He is like, is Obama president yet?

lol wobbs — tell him it’s just a matter of a few more months ;-)

Patience, young man…

Well since shrub was re-elected has has sworn not to set foot in the U.S.

…or woman

Given tonight’s results, does anyone have the new nationwide popular vote tallies? Terri McAliffe said that Hillary would lead after tonight. Was he correct?

wigwam, dunno, but whatever McAuliffe said I would take with a grain of salt

jmho

Only if you figure in the fake popular votes of FL and Michigan…

Spin.

my friend, who wrote the letter is a male. i, on the other hand, is female

uh, no

The Millionaire Media Buffoons want a horse race because it means that they don’t have to their actual j-o-b-s which would involve that mundane reportage shit.

You know that stuff they do when they’re not home writing their novel about how the plucky intrepid reporter asked insightful questions and brought down a president, you know, Fiction.

-all apologies to Colbert for the theft-

Popular vote tallies are misleading because they essentially discount caucuses completely. And most caucuses generally favored Obama. Whether regular primaries in those states would have had the same proportional outcomes as the caucuses is questionable, but the bottom line is that we simply don’t know what the popular vote in those states would have been.

Well, except for Texas, where they do both.

Dugg

Hey gang, gotta do nighttime reading duties and then will be back. Takes about 15 minutes …

Obama has a 500,000 vote popular vote margin after Pa. If you count FL, it is 300,000 popular vote margin

i knew that

i think

;~P

I mean..am female

too much orange juice.it has made me loopy

Thanks for the fresh (and fast) thread David!

I want the Neocons gone.

it also depends on whether or not Terry M. is actually drinking the bong water when he finishes his nickel bag off.

Only takes me ’bout 5

why in the world would we count Florida’s popular count? lots of folks didn’t even turn out to vote that day because they had been told it wouldn’t count and many weren’t even aware that there was a vote that day. Please none of that MI and FL nonsense.

OT but worth checking out Darth in the early days of a lie of an administration: That Fuc*ing bastard… Impeach NOW he planned with forthought tp break the laws of this country…

Excerpt: ‘Against the Tide’

by Lincoln Chafee

‘Against the Tide’ cover

NPR.org, April 16, 2008 · Early in December 2000, Senator Specter asked Richard Cheney, our Republican vice presidential candidate, to have lunch with us on Wednesday, December 13. The vote-counting fiasco in Florida was under way and no one knew whether Texas Governor George W. Bush or Vice President Al Gore had been elected the nation’s 43rd president. Then, the night before we were to meet with Mr. Cheney, the news broke: the U.S. Supreme Court had declared the Florida recount unconstitutional. The Court authorized Katharine Harris, Florida’s Republican secretary of state, to declare Bush and Cheney victorious.

We Republicans had won the presidency by a single vote in the Electoral College and a single vote in the Supreme Court. In the executive branch, winning by a whisker is as good as winning in a landslide, but not so in the Senate. For the first time in a century we had a Senate split down the middle, 50-50, with a Republican vice president available to break a tie in our favor. That whisker-thin margin of victory had real consequences to my way of thinking.

It meant that our small club of five moderate Republican votes would be vital to President-elect Bush if he had any hope of getting his legislative initiatives through.

That was why Vice President-elect Richard Cheney came to our lunch that day: Not to say he needed us, but to tell us that he and George W. Bush were in charge and no one else.

In steady, quiet tones, the Vice President-elect laid out a shockingly divisive political agenda for the new Bush administration, glossing over nearly every pledge the Republican ticket had made to the American voter. President-elect Bush had promised that healing, but now we moderate Republicans were hearing Richard Cheney articulate the real agenda: A clashist approach on every issue, big and small, and any attempt at consensus would be a sign of weakness. We would seek confrontation on every front. He said nothing about education or the environment or health care; it was all about these new issues that were rarely, if ever, touted in the campaign. The new administration would divide Americans into red and blue, and divide nations into those who stand with us or against us. I knew that what the Vice President-elect was saying would rip the closely divided Congress apart. We moderates had often voted with President Clinton on things that powerful Republican constituencies didn’t like: an increase in the minimum wage, a patients’ bill of rights, and campaign finance reform. Mr. Cheney knew this, but he ticked off the issues at the top of his agenda and did it fearlessly. It made no difference to him that we were potential adversaries; he was going down his to-do list and checking off Confrontation Number 1.

Senator Arlen Specter spoke first. As the most junior member, I would have my say last, if at all. I could hardly sit still as I waited to hear my respected friend wade into this outrageous manifesto.

And then, in a moment I can only describe as infuriating, Senator Specter took no leadership role in representing the moderate point of view. He acquiesced, and others followed his example.

As each of my colleagues spoke in turn, I waited for one of them to push back. Surely one of them would have the presence of mind to say, Whoa! Time out! What are you talking about, Mister Vice President? You weren’t elected to scrap international agreements. You never said to the voters: Elect us and we promise to bring back deficit spending and drive the next generation into debt.

But no one resisted. We sat there and listened as Mr. Cheney made divisive pronouncements of policy that would come as a complete surprise to many of the Americans who had voted to elect the Bush/Cheney ticket. I stopped waiting for someone to challenge Mr. Cheney when I saw my Republican friends around the table nodding in agreement as he held forth.

I was at a loss to explain my colleagues’ compliant behavior then. I remain so now. It may have been an all-too-human response to the circumstances of the time. Anxious weeks of uncertainty were finally over. Now we knew the outcome of the election. The bitterness of the Florida recount was behind us. My colleagues seemed happy and relieved just to know who was in charge. And they seemed a little awestruck. This is the Vice President of the United States.

The contentious and destructive agenda that Mr. Cheney dropped on us was troubling enough, but what really unnerved me was his attitude. He welcomed conflict. We Republicans had promised America exactly the opposite. In the presidential debates, moderator Jim Lehrer asked Governor Bush to describe the foreign policy he would adopt, if elected. Candidate Bush said he would be humble in foreign affairs; that if we were arrogant, other countries would resent us. Now his running mate was telling us the new administration would make a point of being arrogant and divisive. Mr. Cheney was brazen in his pronouncements. A humble foreign policy? His attitude was anything but humble. He said that the campaign was over and that our actions in office would not be dictated by what had to be said in the campaign. And he pronounced this deception with no emotion or window dressing of any kind. He was fearless, matter of fact, and smug.

I wondered, where does Cheney get the confidence to say these things a few hours after the Court established him as our Vice President-elect? Where did he get the authority to make this radical departure from the President-elect’s own campaign rhetoric?

I had supported Governor George W. Bush over Senator John McCain in the 2000 Rhode Island presidential primary. I met the Texas Governor for the first time in 1999, when he came to Rhode Island to raise money. I contributed and sincerely applauded his remarks to supporters at the Providence Convention Center. He had good campaign patter, and I was impressed. He said all the right things. I thought he could win on his pledge to bring a new, unifying atmosphere to Washington, and that he might even be as good and decent a president as his father had been. He seemed moderate enough to win support from all sides, and he had the Bush name. After the bitter partisan atmosphere of the Clinton impeachment, voters looked back with affection at the governor’s father.

I liked that the governor had worked cooperatively with Democrats in the Texas Legislature. If leaders in both parties could rally around him, he was just what the country needed. America stood at the summit of power, emerging from the Cold War as an economic, cultural and military force without equal. We had wasted valuable years in partisan bickering, but our moment in history was still at hand. What a tremendous opportunity and responsibility to do good things in the world.

Then came that devastating first day after George W. Bush and Richard Cheney prevailed in the Supreme Court. If we were to believe Mr. Cheney, the President-elect would not only reignite the partisanship of the Clinton-Gingrich era but would make it even more toxic. Mr. Cheney tore our best campaign promises to shreds and the moderates acquiesced instead of pelting him with outrage. It was clear to me then that there would be no key bloc of moderate votes helping to shape legislation and reunite America over the next four years. In any event, Cheney was not asking for support – he was ordering us to provide it. The President-elect had his agenda; we were just along for the ride.

My heart sank as my colleagues peeled away, one by one. It was the most demoralizing moment of my seven-year tenure in the Senate.

When it was my turn to speak, I made the case that our five votes would be crucially important in a 50-50 Senate. I chose my words carefully, and probably stammered with the effort to contain my fury. We were on the cusp of a new millennium that held enormous promise for American leadership in the world, and what I had just heard was petty, arrogant and irresponsible. It threatened to lead in exactly the wrong direction.

I spoke in the perhaps too-optimistic hope that I might yet rally the moderates to seriously apprehend the implications of the new agenda. When I told Mr. Cheney, “Our votes at this table are important,” he could hardly be bothered. He gave me the back of his hand with a truism: “Every vote is important.”

There was no support to be had, and lunch was over.

Excerpted from Against the Tide: How a Compliant Congress Empowered a Reckless President, by Lincoln Chafee, with permission from Thomas Dunne Books. Copyright (c) 2008 by Lincoln Chafee. All rights reserved.

http://www.npr.org/templates/s…..=89…

~~~ModNote: In the future, please run a shorter excerpt and use your link to finish off. Thank you.~~~~

Spin, ratings, spin, ratings…..

Fork the MSM.

bwahahahahahahahahhahaa

ahhh bongs..in another life I, wait…nevermind *g*

what’s in that OJ?

He was sure hyped up today/tonight….

LS, seconded.

‘night all!

If you vote for Hillary, they won’t be gone, they’ll still have the White House.

boa noite, LL

FL is not nonsense. I believe in the end it will be counted. I doubt MI will be.
I would prefer a new vote in both MI and FL. That doesn’t look like it will happen.

it’s some organic, freshly squeezed elitist stuff (or rather juiced)

That am OK, wobbly.

It is nonsense to include it in her popular vote and you know it. The DNC will resolve the MI and FL issue but Hill doesn’t get to count it as a win inher column. sorry. don’t.work.like.that

in another life… Just for the record, I have not partaken for at least twenty years… Bong’s just a name. Head’s clear (’cept fer the booze) That’s another story.

Dr. Kirk Murphy might have some sway, where that’s concerned…

;~P

*g* I blame the oranges, I’m sure they are from San Francisco

Rachel hat-tipping Atrios, talking about Friedman Units!

Rachel describing the “Freidman Unit” to the panel!

Very interesting. Jim Jeffords would have been one of the five moderates, yes? Why would he cave and then switch parties, while Chafee pushed back and stayed with the Republicans?

Nice! I would love to see that concept go mainstream, even if the nomenclature doesn’t (not sure “Friedman Unit” would mean much to most people).

Colbert, or maybe Stewart, actually used it when Friedman appeared on his show.

Awesome. What did Friedman say about it?

“That was why Vice President-elect Richard Cheney came to our lunch that day: Not to say he needed us, but to tell us that he and George W. Bush were in charge and no one else.

In steady, quiet tones, the Vice President-elect laid out a shockingly divisive political agenda for the new Bush administration, glossing over nearly every pledge the Republican ticket had made to the American voter. President-elect Bush had promised that healing, but now we moderate Republicans were hearing Richard Cheney articulate the real agenda: A clashist approach on every issue, big and small, and any attempt at consensus would be a sign of weakness. We would seek confrontation on every front. He said nothing about education or the environment or health care; it was all about these new issues that were rarely, if ever, touted in the campaign. The new administration would divide Americans into red and blue, and divide nations into those who stand with us or against us.”

Let me count the ways…..

Okay….now tell me that they didn’t plan this crappola. Make my day.

For God’s sake, Impeach these people….Now.

Obama has a 500,000 vote popular vote margin after Pa. If you count FL, it is 300,000 popular vote margin

And that ignores the fact that some of that “popular vote” was acquired in caucuses, where voter turnout would be much lower.

My bet is that the Super Delegates will see a way to resolve both the issue of Florida and Michigan, and the ongoing and debilitating primary race. They’ll throw their support to Obama, in exchange allowing the Florida and Michigan “split delegations” to be seated…and giving Obama enough votes to win the nomination. Obama comes off as the “Party Unifier” by bringing back Florida and Michigan. If Hillary sees the writing on the wall she can voluntarily withdraw. She might look forward to a Supreme Court position – replacing Ruth Bader Ginsberg.

After all, isn’t doing what’s best for the party what the Super Delegates are all about?

I know no such thing.
What is truly nonsense is not to find a way to include FL and MI voters in this process. Millions of Democratic voters, who took the time and effort to cast their ballots, are being punished for a process rules violation they had nothing to do with.

My blood is boiling after read that. What kind of a creature is Darth anyway… please oh please let him be dragged to the Hague tried and then incarcerated for his life!

It is nonsense to include it in her popular vote and you know it. The DNC will resolve the MI and FL issue but Hill doesn’t get to count it as a win inher column. sorry. don’t.work.like.that

If they really cared the Super Delegates could fix that controversy right away. I suspect they will soon.

I’m sure a wat willbe found but you were counting florida as a win for her and that is nonsense

yup

To do what

Except that everyone who cast a vote in those 2 states knew that they were invalid BEFORE they voted.

I hope they will if for any reason than to stop the silliness of hillary’s campaign claiming victories for either FL or MI

I wonder – does Mr. Chafee point out (at any time in the book) the “new issues” that Dickhead was touting?

I live in michigan and i do see the rule breaking as pretty much a given by the Michigan Dem Party. THEY broke the rules and the pledge by moving up the primary. I’m more mad at them, and i refuse to take it out on the candidates. Hillary didn’t follow the rules as she’d signed on to do, THAT is her own fault. I’d rather leave my own state’s votes out of it until it can be resolved by the DNC itself, since MI can’t get its own act together(or the money) to do a legitimate revote before the convention.

It wasn’t a fair vote since her name was on the ballot, but Obama and Edwards follows the rules laid out and took their names off. But either way, i’m waiting until the general begins. Because then the ground game starts up and michigan will get it’s say again. *shrugs*

Hillary should just laugh loudly and vigorously to disarm the superdelegates.

I know it’s a vain hope, but perhaps Chafee’s book will persuade some of the media “naifs” who always dismiss talk of Bushco’s having planned all the attacks on the Constitution and the government as “over-the-top” conspiracy theory by extreme partisans.
I won’t hold my breath for the acknowledgment, though.

I am so sick of the OBS of the primary.

do the oranges exhibit radical symmetry?

No words can express how reading that makes me feel.
I thought the craven attitudes started after 9/11. Boy was I wrong.

Simple…allow the elected reps to sit…but deny the establishment Super Delegates or any pols that were part of the process the right to vote. Florida Super Delegates (mainly the Reps and other politicians who supported violating the Party rules) should have no vote.

And since this is a party dispute, and the other Super Delegates overall are there to support the party, they should balance the effects that the flawed election created.

I am so sick of the OBS of the primary.

Umm– OBS? Oral b–l s–t? I’m not up on this one.*g*

Haven’t read it yet so I don’t know… but a good question!

I live in FL and I voted for Edwards. If Edwards gives his delegates to Hillary, I’m gonna be pissed. If Eliz is gonna stump for Hillary, I guess I’m gonna be pissed.

Yeah, the sooner we get it the better.

Six years late, but better than never.

lol, oops, typo, BSO “Bright Shiny Object”

Be pissed at my #54.

“David Swanson, nationally recognized journalist and peace & justice activist Elizabeth de la Vega, author of “United States v. George W. Bush et al.” will be speaking here tomomorow night on Impeachment.

Nahant do you or Wobs know of these speakers? I do plan on attending with friends. They have been on tour a while and promote Impeachment.

The way to end the silliness, is for Obama to win a big state primary. A victory in Ohio, Texas or Pennsylvania would have done it. It didn’t happen. I think victories in North Carolina and Indiana in 2 weeks will do it.
He needs to forget the hollow  MSNBC process and inevitability arguments and get back to the inspirational  politics of hope, change and the  bright promise  the future holds for a united America.

cinnamonape, i love that solution.

disenfranchising voters to punish the pols is like spanking the driveway cause one’s kid ran into the street

a bad idea applied in ignorance of causality

(besides, in FL it was the Rethug state reps who had the power to move the primary – and some polls show many FL Dems state they intend to sit out the general election if disenfranchised.)

They’re Back…! Defense of Democracies… “House Dems, Ron Paul targeted over surveillance votes” and FISA, too…

Meanwhile, Politico reports that Democrats, Republicans and administration officials have met to discuss the stalled bill in question. It’s the first time since February parties on all sides of the issue have met.

they’re radical oranges alright *g*

I long for the days that I didn’t give a fork.

I live in FL and I voted for Edwards. If Edwards gives his delegates to Hillary, I’m gonna be pissed. If Eliz is gonna stump for Hillary, I guess I’m gonna be pissed.

Once a candidate suspends their campaign their delegates are free to support who they want. Actually, as Hillary pointed out even “committed delegates” are not really bound to the candidates that are even still in the race. She said this in California just before the delegate nominating conventions, oddly enough. It immediately got everyone all concerned about stealth delegates who would vote for a candidate when they asserted they supported another.
What she said is TRUE…but any candidate that even considered this loophole in the rules (it’s a matter of honor and has only been violated a handful of instances in the tens of thousands of delegates that have pledged to candidates over the last hundred years) has implied that honor and trust is a light value.

Got people wondering just what the “will of the people” really meant to Hillary here in my neighborhood.

I read de la Vega’s book. She is a former federal prosecutor who approached the Bush/Cheney record of misdeeds from a criminal law perspective. The book was a legal argument about why they should be indicted and convicted for violating federal conspiracy law.

I would be interested in hearing her speak if she were in my area.

now how did it turn to Obama winning states when you were talkinag about popular vote and included Florida? i know I’ve had a bit too much OJ toight but I didn’t drink that much

Elizabeth de la Vega, had an FDL book salon and, iirc, she has been here a time or two in addition to her salon. She is terrific!

Ah, nothing like Death of Democracies.

No but please give us synopsis of the talk… it will be greatly appreciated!!

Susan Jacoby @ Keplers in Menlo Park Friday night.

lol, your like Obama all the time.

What is truly nonsense is not to find a way to include FL and MI voters in this process.

This will be determined by the credentials committee. Most likely, the delegates will be seated because it still won’t give Clinton the lead. Personally, I think the delegate count for each state should be cut in half, then seated.

Really?

wow newtonusr – that sounds cool. wish i could go

yeah, it’s the drink of elitist with funny middle names

well looking at my massive typos, maybe too much vitamin C?

Me, too. I’m out of town Friday, though.

:P there ya go

wish that were my problem

Let’s see.

*Oil approaching $120 a barrel.

* Darfur deaths now estimated at 300,000.

*World food crisis is beginning in earnest.

*US deficit highest ever.

*Whitehouse to brief Congress on reported North Korea/Syria nuclear collaboration.

*Hezbollah’s Nasrallah is the most popular figure in the Arab world according to recent polls.

*US military suffering from extended commitments, high PTSD stats, propaganda campaigns.

*Pakistan Taliban vows to fight on.

*Afhganistan conditions worsen, heroin production at record highs.

*Indicatations that Al Sadr may end ceased fire and bring total war to Iraq.

*California forclosures up over 300%.*

*John McCain promises to continue Bush policies.

Heckuva job Bushy.

-GSD

Ahh, thanks. Makes much more sense!

Mrs. Bong calling…

nite all!

;~P

Thanks Newtonusr wish I could attend. Are you going?

I’d love to, but I will be on the road.
But I love that store.

boa noite, dr bong

Gee, thanks, Greg.

I wuz gonna have a good night’s sleep

Now, not so much.

better than osb too!

bon soir

The way to end the silliness, is for Obama to win a big state primary.

You mean like Maryland, Virginia, Connecticut, Mississippi and others? Oh, I forgot, Hillary gets to determine which states “really” count. You know, it would have been a lot easier if she could have told us this before the primary started! It would have saved a lot of time and effort!

Are you sure thats all..

Oh yeah and an incident between Russia and Georgia. Georgia alleges a Russian MIG shotdown a Georgian drone.

-G

5 G.I.s dead in Iraq…last 24 hours…Tuesday..Antiwar.com

Now, to solve the elections..I’ve got it.

A bowl off….

Uh, huh….Ummm…..

He is blowing smoke. He is counting MI and FL with some wishful thinking thrown in.

.. or is it bonne soir?

i don’t remember

*Somalia is also descending further into chaos.

-G

His speech tonight was against McCain. It was his first GE speech.

We’re there too, eh?

(besides, in FL it was the Rethug state reps who had the power to move the primary – and some polls show many FL Dems state they intend to sit out the general election if disenfranchised.)

It’s true that the rethugs were behind this…but if you look at the Democratic legislators vote on the bill…they went UNANIMOUSLY for it as well. There was no Democratic opposition to speak of from the State political machine. And the Senators and Reps also advocated for it.

I say…make THEM sit on their hands. And that may send a very strong message to any bunch of State pols not to pull such crap in the future. It hurts the party (as we have seen) and threatens to disenfranchise voters. In fact, I think anyone with a mind would say it DID disenfranchise Florida Democrats…many of whom thought the election was only a beauty contest.

The “proof” in that is looking at the turnout. Whereas every other Primary election has had 2-3 times the previous turnout seen (and much vaster than the parallel Republican primary) Florida’s was pretty average. That’s why adding in the actual votes Clinton received doesn’t impact Obama’s lead very much…but the delegate count (which is based on the potential Democrat vote) actually DOES.

When one looks at what happened half of those who would have voted in Florida probably didn’t because it didn’t count and they thought there would be a “legal election” down the road.

The rules committee could allow the delegation in, but require that no State or Federal legislators or others that advocated for the shift in the dates, can serve as delegates. Spank ‘em. Allow average citizen supporters of the candidates to participate. Superdelegates can come, but have to sit out of the decision-making processes in terms of candidate selection. They can do the other party business, perhaps. Rules Committee should spank the guilty.

And, 3 Marines killed, 4 wounded in Ramadi, Basra

Sherman, set the Way Back Machine.

Yep.

We encouraged Ethiopia to invade Somalia and have assisted with missiles and air cover.

Ethiopia is now mired in Somalia and may soon face war with Eritrea and their breakaway Ogaden region too.

-G

Also, there have been a series of pirate attacks of the Horn of Africa too.

Not only has Bush not caught Bin Laden, but a foe that was vanquished in the 1800’s has returned to marauding….Fucking pirates.

Sharks win!!!!! Yeah!!!

mass email from Obama campaign.. in my inbox 11 mins ago

What this means

Dear Eureka

Votes are still being counted in Pennsylvania, but one thing is already clear.

In a state where we trailed by more than 25 points just a couple weeks ago, you helped close the gap to a slimmer margin than most thought possible.

Thanks to your support, with just 9 contests remaining, we’ve won more delegates, more votes, and twice as many contests.

We hold a commanding position, but there are two crucial contests coming up — voters will head to the polls in North Carolina and Indiana in exactly two weeks. And we’re already building our organization in the other remaining states.

But it’s clear the attacks are going to continue, and we’re going to continue fighting a two-front battle against John McCain and Hillary Clinton.

I need your support right now. Please make a donation of $25:

https://donate.barackobama.com/whatthismeans

Thank you for all that you’re doing to change our country.

Barack

You are willfully misconstruing my point. I was talking about how he could end this contest. A win in Ohio, Texas or Pennsylvania would have done it. Big wins in and North Carolina and Indiana in two weeks will do it. I hope it happens.

double yeah!! on to the second round…

(do you know who they play next?)

Thanks!

Great Salon with Elizabeth de la Vega!
Thanks, RBG!

Also, another US citizen arrested for spying against the US for Israel.

-G

Dallas Stars iirc

I know Elizabeth is passionate about health care, but John’s entire campaign was about the two Americas. How either one could support Hillary after the NAFTA and Columbia trade stuff came out is beyond me. I would really loose respect for them if either one supported Hillary. They also ran a high road campaign. Hillary’s has been low, low, low. I just can’t see them jumping on her bandwagon.

Same here.
I’m very surprised to hear that Elizabeth is leaning that way.
I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that it’s a crock from Hillary’s camp.

How can you do anything but split them 50/50 in MI since Obama wasn’t even on the ballot.

I’m not misconstruing anything. States are not bags of homogeneous voters. Candidates have strengths and weaknesses in different regions of the country. Clinton is very strong in the states you mentioned.

Again, we could have saved a lot of time if people such as yourself could have told all of us which states were “important” ahead of time. You continue to single out states where Clinton is strong as being more important than others. That’s not a legitimate argument.

i don’t know… i always wondered if those issues were such a big deal to edwards, why didn’t he show it while he was in the senate and could do something about it?

well, you could split them according to the same ratio that obama and clinton won in total in the states that held legal (according to party rules) primaries or caucuses—54:46 or whatever the actual number might be…so that delegation would not tilt the results of the convention…but they would still be allowed to participate

TRNN has a good little expose on Sadr up.

MI seems to be taking care of itself, with the recent convention awarding delegates to Obama. The rules say the credentials committee makes the choice. I believe Obama will effectively be in control of that committee (due to overall wins in the other states) and that he will agree to seating of the delegates in some fashion because he will still be ahead.

Only 1 percent of the precincts outstanding- looks as if it will end Hillary plus ten point.

Two more weeks until the next exciting contests.

Looks as if this thing will go til June.

I am not arguing tha some states are more imoportant than others. Although, in terms of the Democratic nomination I believe that to be so, but that is an argument for another night.
All I am trying to say is that to end this contest he needs to win one of these priaries. In fact, if he could have held her to less than a 5 point win tonight, it would probably be over.
This is not a radical notion. It is an obvious fact.

Both candidates have excellent arguments to make to the superdelegates who will end up deciding this thing no matter who wins

are we there yet?

it sounds more like an opinion to me.

perhaps a reasonable opinion, perhaps an informed opinion, but please do not confuse that with an “obvious fact.”

thanks, tw3k. I love that site.
This Bruce Fein interview stand out, too:
FISA: Protecting America or executive power grab?

yup, a Fein classic.

Only 1 percent of the precincts outstanding- looks as if it will end Hillary plus ten point.

Current PA DoS numbers (98.40% reporting):

CLINTON, HILLARY (DEM) 1,222,919 54.3%
OBAMA, BARACK (DEM) 1,027,315 45.7%

That’s not a 10 point win at this moment.

http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/

In fact, if he could have held her to less than a 5 point win tonight, it would probably be over.

Sure, and if she could have won Super Tuesday, it would be over! Your argument is invalid. You are singling out certain states where Obama “needed” to win.

oops, I was thinking about this one: Republican supports impeachment

I have yet to hear from either Clinton or Obama the whole scope of the job of REPAIR that needs to be done for our country.

IMO, each takes a small slice of the problems, addresses and that’s it. There’s not a big vision by either candidate, for instance health care. You’ll get access to insurance under either’s plan, but will you get CARE? You’ll definitely get to pay into a plan that will help some corporations coffers. Yuck.

And FISA? They both fail IMO. The list goes on. We should lower expectations on the Prez race, and focus on down ticket races. That’s where the Progressive action is IMO.

The differential in Florida -if you distribute the 185 delegates (minus the “Uncommitted “) would give Obama 63 and Clinton 93. That’s a 30 delegate differential. If one allows Edwards delegates in the mix (about 27) and allow them to “vote their conscience”) it could make the outcome closer. But Obama has a 100+ delegate lead right now. He’d still lead if you allow the elected Florida delegation in…and if you split Michigan…there’s no net change. If Edward’s delegates go predominantly for Obama (as they have elsewhere) then we are really talking about no real difference.

This is precisely why the Uncommitted Super Delegates should step in pretty soon and end this. The rules Committee should punish the POLS in Florida and Michigan but allow the elected delegations in. And the Super Delegates should look at the numbers and realize that the Florida and Michigan issues are really not very relevant.

Hillary really needed a massive win tonight to win substantial delegates to make the math catch up…even with huge turnarounds in every later state.

I really don’t think the Super Delegates want to have this go into Puerto Rico, which cannot even vote in the US elections, and have IT be the delegation that decides the nominee? That would be a field day for the Republican Party, methinks. And the ABC would just love bringing up Bill Clinton’s pardons of Puerto Rican Independence terrorists to “balance” their skewering of Obama about Wm. Ayers. Snuffle’s could talk about how he’s really just being fair and balanced…and ask McCain if he thinks Hillary is really a patriot if her husband is out there freeing bombers who wanted PR to break away from America.

Actually looks impossible to cross the 10 point barrier. But it didn’t mean much anyways.

The last precincts that haven’t been counted are in Philly and Chester County so I would expect that any shifts would actually be in the direction of Obama. But it will be minimal. I think it’s gonna stay 9.5% unless there are absentees or something still out.

CodePink and Democrats.com present a Town Hall With David Swanson in Oakland
Submitted by dswanson on Thu, 2008-04-10 19:58. Impeachment | Peace and War
“Are Peace and Impeachment Possible?”
April 24, 7-9 p.m., Grand Lake Theater, 3200 Grand Avenue, Oakland
Reserve tickets: Grand Lake 510-452-3556 . $10 at door; $8 advance (Black Oak Books, Pendragon Books) Sliding scale:unemployed, students, retirees.

“Clinton Captures Crucial Win” in large font is what I see on the Yahoo! home page right now.
“Clinton Claims Victory in PA Primary” on CNN. Just look at a book ‘Campaigns, Media, and Governing in the 21st Century’:
http://dealstudio.com/searchde…..038;ru=279 , The media just loves a horse race. But I thought that the candidate needed 2,025 electorial votes to win.

“Hillary didn’t follow the rules as she’d signed on to do, THAT is her own fault.”

Interesting. Since you are from Michigan, please clarify what rules she didn’t follow there? Assuming that you were among the over half million democrats who voted that day (incidentally, some 164,000 votes were cast during the 2004 democratic primary in MI), you probably noticed that Dodd, Gravel, Kucinich and Hillary were listed on the ballot. There are some, partisans no doubt, who think that Obama and some of the other candidates at that time removed their names just to make it possible to deny Hillary a paper victory (and momentum) in MI. Apparently tracking polls in your state in Jan had Hillary at 56%, and the results from the “election” gave her 55% of the 594,000 votes cast.