Comments on: The Importance Of A Voter Verified Paper Trail http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/ Firedoglake weblog Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:21:46 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: strider7 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1404256 strider7 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:06:53 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1404256 <p>the RFK jr interview with siegleman also points out that siegleman decided not to pursue a recount because the rnc had locked up the state supreme court with 8 of 9 of the judges being repubs. That’s how pervasive this corruption is.Just create the illusion of a conflict and leave the decision to the politicaly appointed judges.Kinda like florida 2000 and the election in mexico</p> the RFK jr interview with siegleman also points out that siegleman decided not to pursue a recount because the rnc had locked up the state supreme court with 8 of 9 of the judges being repubs. That’s how pervasive this corruption is.Just create the illusion of a conflict and leave the decision to the politicaly appointed judges.Kinda like florida 2000 and the election in mexico

]]> By: looseheadprop http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1403796 looseheadprop Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:41:04 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1403796 <p>I know I’m deep in EPU land, but I just got some good news. NYS had only one county intencding to purchase a touch screen voting system. Because there is only one county that wants to buy there product, its not profitble for the manufacture.</p> <p>Today the manufacturer has withdrawn as a vendor in NYS. NYS is now a toaly paper ballot state.</p> <p>[LHP doin’ the happy dance]</p> I know I’m deep in EPU land, but I just got some good news. NYS had only one county intencding to purchase a touch screen voting system. Because there is only one county that wants to buy there product, its not profitble for the manufacture.

Today the manufacturer has withdrawn as a vendor in NYS. NYS is now a toaly paper ballot state.

[LHP doin’ the happy dance]

]]> By: MIdwestMillian http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1403724 MIdwestMillian Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:57:48 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1403724 <p>Above meant to reply to <a href="mailto:looseheadprop@97" rel="nofollow">looseheadprop@97</a></p> Above meant to reply to looseheadprop@97

]]> By: MIdwestMillian http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1403721 MIdwestMillian Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:56:45 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1403721 <p>I made a windy comment below about why paper ballots are better than a paper trail. Sorry I did not see this first:)</p> I made a windy comment below about why paper ballots are better than a paper trail. Sorry I did not see this first:)

]]> By: TomR http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1403671 TomR Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:18:23 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1403671 <p>LHP said:</p> <blockquote><p>We need voter verified paper ballots in order to have a legitimate recount. We also need good chain of custody regulations and valid audit trail procedures. </p></blockquote> <p>I’m so glad to see you acknowledge that the paper ballots ARE the one and only paper trail. It’s important that people understand that a separate, uncounted paper trail would be a very bad idea, as these machines could be hacked to display one thing on screen and print out something else entirely, voter unverified. (Note: I’m not against ballot marking devices [printers] for the disabled. At least the voter can verify the marks printed on his/her ballot.)</p> <p>We need to get rid of electronic voting and electronic vote counting PERIOD! One paper ballot per voter. I also support IRV, but it would still need to be hand counted. We can afford to wait an extra day to two to get our verified election results.</p> <p>- Tom</p> LHP said:

We need voter verified paper ballots in order to have a legitimate recount. We also need good chain of custody regulations and valid audit trail procedures.

I’m so glad to see you acknowledge that the paper ballots ARE the one and only paper trail. It’s important that people understand that a separate, uncounted paper trail would be a very bad idea, as these machines could be hacked to display one thing on screen and print out something else entirely, voter unverified. (Note: I’m not against ballot marking devices [printers] for the disabled. At least the voter can verify the marks printed on his/her ballot.)

We need to get rid of electronic voting and electronic vote counting PERIOD! One paper ballot per voter. I also support IRV, but it would still need to be hand counted. We can afford to wait an extra day to two to get our verified election results.

- Tom

]]> By: MIdwestMillian http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1403646 MIdwestMillian Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:58:15 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1403646 <p>Thanks much for calling attention to this issue.</p> <p>Re ”voter-verified paper trail.” Out in the world of normal folk who care much about democracy but aren’t spending all their time trying to hack through the weeds of the electronic voting controversy, the term ”voter-verified paper trail” is a completely reasonable term. Among advocates for verifiable elections, it’s become problematic.</p> <p>Verified Voting Foundation, along with voting advocates, believe that paper-trail printer retrofits are not an adequate solution to the problem of paperless electronic voting: they lose votes to printer jams, and go unchecked by too many voters. Voter-marked paper ballots read by an optical scanner are a much better solution. See VerfiedVoting.org’s action alert on the latest federal election verification legislation (VV.org is the 501c(4) sister of the Verified Voting Foundation). VV.org notes the superiority of paper ballots over paper trails.</p> <p><a href="http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/199/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=22334" rel="nofollow">http://salsa.democracyinaction....._KEY=22334</a></p> <p>Thanks again for spreading the word.</p> <p>Midwest Millian</p> Thanks much for calling attention to this issue.

Re ”voter-verified paper trail.” Out in the world of normal folk who care much about democracy but aren’t spending all their time trying to hack through the weeds of the electronic voting controversy, the term ”voter-verified paper trail” is a completely reasonable term. Among advocates for verifiable elections, it’s become problematic.

Verified Voting Foundation, along with voting advocates, believe that paper-trail printer retrofits are not an adequate solution to the problem of paperless electronic voting: they lose votes to printer jams, and go unchecked by too many voters. Voter-marked paper ballots read by an optical scanner are a much better solution. See VerfiedVoting.org’s action alert on the latest federal election verification legislation (VV.org is the 501c(4) sister of the Verified Voting Foundation). VV.org notes the superiority of paper ballots over paper trails.

http://salsa.democracyinaction….._KEY=22334

Thanks again for spreading the word.

Midwest Millian

]]> By: tw3k http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1403608 tw3k Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:39:47 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1403608 <p>Digital ballot with no receipt. Handful of college students doing their duty.</p> Digital ballot with no receipt. Handful of college students doing their duty.

]]> By: ACitizen http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1403604 ACitizen Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:37:57 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1403604 <p>Just more evidence that some would turn this into a third world country and by ’some’ I mean folks who call themselves ‘Democrat’ as well as those who honestly label themselves ‘Republican.</p> Just more evidence that some would turn this into a third world country and by ’some’ I mean folks who call themselves ‘Democrat’ as well as those who honestly label themselves ‘Republican.

]]> By: ACitizen http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1403598 ACitizen Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:36:20 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1403598 <p>That would be the same house ‘Leadership’, Miss Nancy in particular, we can put out on the street this fall. It a can be done and must be,<strong> must be attempted at the least.</strong></p> <p>I can tell you that everyone I talk to in NC is sick and disgusted and above all enraged by her enabling of Bush and his Fascitii.</p> That would be the same house ‘Leadership’, Miss Nancy in particular, we can put out on the street this fall. It a can be done and must be, must be attempted at the least.

I can tell you that everyone I talk to in NC is sick and disgusted and above all enraged by her enabling of Bush and his Fascitii.

]]> By: looseheadprop http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1403559 looseheadprop Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:24:10 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/22/the-importance-of-a-voter-verified-paper-trail/#comment-1403559 <p>Thank You. I may even write about it</p> Thank You. I may even write about it

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