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Lord & Lady Douchebag, Political Appointees
Department of Veterans’ Affairs
In San Francisco federal court Monday, attorneys for veterans’ rights groups accused the VA of nothing less than a cover-up – deliberately concealing the real risk of suicide among veterans.
"The system is in crisis and unfortunately the VA is in denial," said Veterans Rights Attorney Gordon Erspamer.
The charges were backed by internal e-mails written by Dr. Ira Katz, the VA’s head of Mental Health.
In the past, Katz has repeatedly insisted while the risk of suicide among veterans is serious, it’s not outside the norm.
"There is no epidemic in suicide in VA," Katz told Keteyian in November.
And now comes the lying ass part:
But in this e-mail to his top media advisor, written two months ago, Katz appears to be saying something very different, stating: "Our suicide prevention coordinators are identifying about 1,000 suicide attempts per month among veterans we see in our metical facilities."
Katz’s e-mail was written shortly after the VA provided CBS News data showing there were only 790 attempted suicides in all 2007 – a fraction of Katz’s estimate.
"This 12,000 attempted suicides per year shows clearly, without a doubt, that there is an epidemic of suicide among veterans," said Paul Sullivan of Veterans for Common Sense.
And it appears that Katz went out of his way to conceal these numbers.
Why is it that Douchebags ALWAYS have media advisers?
And has Bush given them a tax-write off on "Douchbag Related Expenses"?
1,000 suicide attempts a month amongst vets?!!! How much reporting will this get? I suppose one-hundredth of the time "Did Obama flip Clinton off?" received.
God forbid George Stephanapolis ask John McCain about it?
"Does Dr. Katz love America as much as you Senator?"
The full-out lying and criminality of this Administration knows no bounds. Good thing McCain supports this non-stop, Bush Administration Snuff Film, whole-heartedly.
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So?!
Typical
I’m sure a surge in soldier suicide attempts means progress to George Bush and his Band of Warmongering Thugs. Spit.
Enough to make me wish for the existence of Hell.
Dugggg!
Wow Attaturk, you are on a roll this morning. Another great post..
Happy Earth Attaturk!
love the funny caption
hate the cold-blooded administration.
A Willie Horton Hit on Obama?
Tuesday, Apr. 22, 2008 By MICHAEL SCHERER
http://www.time.com/time/polit…..73,00.html
Go Elizabeth!
John Edward’s wife disputes McCain ‘cheap shot’ charge
Posted April 21, 2008 2:36 PM
by Frank James
Elizabeth Edwards, wife of former Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards, has a response today to Sen. John McCain who yesterday described as a “cheap shot” her assertion that McCain, as a long-time senator and former military man, has had government-run health care for much of his adult life.
She makes this point on the “The Wonk Room” blog of the liberal group Center for American Progress Action Fund:
John McCain accused me of taking a “cheap shot” on “This Week with George Stephanopoulos” yesterday for noting that people with preexisting conditions, such as he and I have, would not be able to get health care under his plan — and that he perhaps was not as sensitive to this problem as he should be since he has been in government health care his whole life.
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.co…..in_ro.html
Happy PA Primary day!
Can we finish this freakin thing today?
“Give me a Sandwich and a Douchebag, and the world is mine!”
OK, here’s a story of a suicide at the VA Medical Center, Bay Pines, FL in the early 90’s. We had a schizophrenic outpatient who, armed with a handgun, had locked himself in a stall in one of the public bathrooms. We had two experienced male RN’s, both with the PTSD unit, who were talking with this veteran. The chief of psychiatry wanted a psychiatrist to intervene and picked a staff psychiatrist whose daughter had recently been killed in an auto accident and who told the chief that he was neither experienced nor comfortable in crisis intervention. The chief insisted and the RN’s were relieved by the psychiatrist after spending well over an hour with this veteran. About 15 minutes later the man shot himself to death inside the stall. All of us on staff were outraged at the chief’s action. The whole episode was swept under the rug and the subject was verboten in the chief’s presence. It’s not the only disgraceful incident to occur in my 16 years working at the VA.
Rule Number One: Do Not Mess With Elizabeth Edwards.
Rule Number Two: Do Not Mess With Elizabeth Edwards.
Rule Number Three: No Talking About Fight Club.
A-yep.
707…
Elizabeth Edwards rocks!!!
HIS was the cheap shot.
then see PW @ 12
Oh, yeah, and check this out:
Exactly.
I guess he just may not like the truth. I hope she keeps making her point.
what a horror!
Bah hahahahahahaha!
That’s the best they can do for a Willie Horton job?!? Geez, that’s so weak…especially since the Goverenor cleared death row in Ill due to pervasive errors.
Still, we see how well “I won’t dignify that with a response” works for this type of attack. Obama better aim well and hit back.
Boxturtle (Not sure we want a capitol punishment debate in this election, but if we do here’s our chance)
more from PW’s link
That doesn’t begin to describe what we felt that morning.
Hmmmm,
I know this is long (sorry Mods) but the stuff was half way down a longgg page.
McCAIN FINANCE CHAIR PLAYED MAJOR ROLE IN SPITZER’S DOWNFALL; CLINTON HOLDS PA LEAD.
NEW YORK. A Politics1 Exclusive. John McCain’s National Finance Co-Chairman played a key role in the recent downfall of former New York Governor Eliot Spitzer (D). Reliable sources informed Politics1 that DC super-lobbyist Wayne Berman — a longtime confidant of insurance executive Maurice Hank Greenberg — authorized a private Investigation that discovered the links between Spitzer and a Florida escort service ring. Operating under the alias code-name “Wallace C. Bernheim,” Berman directed an 18-month effort that cost an estimated $2.2 million. The investigation was allegedly paid for by a highly-secretive shadow committee Berman directed, informally nicknamed “The Group.” Sources tell Politics1 that The Group included Greenberg, Home Depot founder Ken Langone and former New York Stock Exchange Chairman Ken Grasso — all high-profile targets of Spitzer when he was Attorney General. Key players in funding the anti-Spitzer effort also included wealthy New Jersey businessman Joseph Jingoli and Florida sugar mogul Pepe Fanjul Jr. Berman also retained veteran Republican dirty trickster Roger Stone to transmit the information to the FBI five months ago. The Group also funded an on-going effort by Stone to challenge Spitzer on the “Troopergate” and illegal immigrants drivers license issues. Berman and Stone were previously partners in the Black, Manafort, Stone & Kelly consulting firm, whose former clients included Philippine President Ferdinand Marcos, Angolan guerilla Jonas Savimbi , US Sugar, Phillip Morris Tobacco, and developer Donald Trump. Stone also had a very public sexual scandal in that past, as he was fired by Bob Dole’s 1996 Presidential campaign when it was reported that Stone and his wife were advertising for other couples in sex magazines and participated in swingers sex parties. Stone also organized the so-called “Brooks Brothers Riot” in November 2000 that shut down the Miami-Dade Presidential recount. The funders decided against giving the money to the coffers of New York Senate Majority Leader Joe Bruno (R) — a sharp Spitzer foe — because of lack of confidence in Bruno strategist John McArdle.
Good gawd. Awful! I did a post earlier this year about how one soldier was being charged by the military with trying to kill herself, while in the meantime, one of her good female friends (also a soldier) killed herself:
http://whitenoiseinsanity.word…..heir-side/
It’s heart-wrenching. Of course, to the Bush Family & Friends, they think it’s neat that all of this is happening! Bastards.
opps, forgot linky thingy…
http://www.politics1.com/index.htm
So now we have a whole ‘nother generation who must suffer what our VietNam vets have suffered. Thanks George.
It didn’t have to be this way
i think i’m going to be sick.
what can we do to help our suffering vets?
LOL. She’s great, isn’t she! Nothing against Clinton or Obama but I sure miss having John & Elizabeth on the campaign trail. I just watched a Daily Mirror video interview with John and it reminded me how much I miss hearing Edwards.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/t…..-20390296/
End the war and spend the money necessary for healing?
It’s nice of Elizabeth to engage McCain while Hillary & Obama are otherwise occupied. LOL
fyi- today’s hearings on net neutrality (i think this is the one that senator kerry came here to talk about)
and since i’ve seen lessig speak several times (sadly not live – just via video downloads), i’d plan on watching just for his testimony alone. although he may have to seriously dumb it down for the congress critters.
Well good morning to you.
i wish.
but our dem congress that we worked so hard for is getting ready to give bush his biggest blank check yet.
Problem is, the VA shifted to the HMO business model a number of years ago. We were putting schizophrenics back on the street in under 10 days. They came right back. Don’t get me wrong, by and large the medical staff do the best they can with the bureaucratic nightmare they have to deal with. When I first started with the VA in 1980 “patient care” wasn’t a buzzword, it was THE RULE. Patient care came first. Period. When the shift to the HMO business model took place it became a buzzword. Unless and until the bean counters are thrown out nothing will change.
These soldiers are not reffered to as CFFI for nuttin’ hunny!
i nominate SouthernDragon to run the VA
Yes, this is the one, Thanks selise for the list yesterday.
This is a little OT and old, but…
‘TEHRAN (MNA) – About 304 recalcitrant U.S. soldiers have been killed by the Pentagon’s special team, intelligence sources in Iraq have revealed.’
http://www.godlikeproductions……e96038/pg1
Elizabeth didn’t take a cheap shot at McCain. She merely told the truth, and he felt like he’d been shot.
I’m putting my hope and energy getting progressives elected to the House. None of the corporatist prez candidates do anything for me. But then it’s hard to get any further left than yours truly.
Double :(
Read the disclaimer on this site
Great post, Attaturk.
My favorite line from the old “That’s My Bush” series on Comedy Central:
thanks.
and i should have said that there are links and the complete (as of yesterday) list for the week at the link by my name.
You started with the VA the year this nation elected Ronald Reagan, the guy who as governor emptied out the CA’s mental hospitals, thereby starting CA’s crisis of homelessness. His record was well-known but, like Bush’s, the media ignored it.
Pat Tillman, Honor the hero lock up George now. Stop refusing to believe the lengths these creeps will go when you mantra is ” the ends justify the means”
off to get coffee (i’m out – yikes!), will be back to watch the hearing.
checking the c-span schedule – it looks like c-span is not covering it. damn.
but here’s the committee’s webpage for the future of the internet hearing – there should be a link to the webcast on the page (there is not now) approximately 15 minutes prior to the start of the hearing (i just called the committee and the receptionist confirmed that they would be webstreaming this hearing).
LOOK at this Federal Piechart
If only there had never been a President Bush,
oh how it hurts to think where we’d be this Earth Day if we had President Gore.
And he wiped out the education benefits of the Viet Nam vets, who fell under the old GI Bill. If you didn’t use them before 10 years after leaving the service they went away. When I went back to school in 96 it came out of my pocket. I’ve got 3 more years of student loan payments.
Good Morning PW -
desertion rates among recruits with ‘conduct waivers’ is 10 times higher
That is outrageous. I had a friend who took “hobby” flying lessons on his GI bill. No student loans there. Im sorry you were not treated fairly.
When I got out in 69 the dollar amount was the same as what my old man got after WWII. I had to borrow money to live in a frickin dorm. (Because I was still 19 when I got out I couldn’t live off campus!)
No one could have forseen…
Reagan also started the first pushes to make it difficult for GIs to get out. When I was discharged from the USAF in ‘82, I initially couldn’t collect unemployment as I had been eligible for re-enlistment and chose not to do so. Theory was that I was “voluntarily” leaving my job but the folks who got booted out or were denied re-enlistment could collect the full measure. Basically a penalty for not screwing up.
They eventually did change it so we could collect up to 13 weeks.
Considering it’s the Bush Admin., it is possible that he really doesn’t think 12,000 suicide attempts is an epidemic or a crisis. They’re the ones insisting Iraq is almost ready to be put on the top ten list of great vacatin escapes.
This admin. couldn’t care less about GIs or veterans, so why would they view their offing themselves as a crisis?
Get Cheney that oil and Dubya his dad’s love, dammit.
How old were you when you went in? And, how long did you serve? Were you injured?
Elect leaders who don’t think that starting an unprovoked war is a good way to impress Daddy.
Start talking to people who think it’s a good idea about the real damage we do to our society.
What waivers are required to allow a member of the Bush family to serve? Being from such a brave, moral, and patriotic family, there must be something extraordinary and out of their control holding them back.
The Administration ratianale for all of this is “they are all volunteers.”
I know nothing of military matters, but I was in a auto shop waiting room once and got talking to a Korean War vet. I guess there is some measurement system having to do with the level of disability, and where you land on that scale determines the amount of disability pension you get, or something like that. He told me that, whenever a Republican was in office, his number went way down and his benefits dropped but that when Clinton was president, he got full disability benefits, ie: his number on this scale went up.
17th birthday, 11/10/66. 2 years 9.5 months. 13 months 7th ID Korea 67-68, 11 months 1st Signal Bde, RVN 68-69. Injured, nah. One of those REMF truck drivers. . .
It’s been a long time since I thought life was fair. One thing my grampa taught me, among many things, was to do the best with what I had. After getting a computer science degree (at 57) I loved school so much I wanted to stay in school for the rest of my life. The real benefit was to go to my grave owing Sallie Mae and BofA a ton of money. LOL.
Yep, it’s called a “profile:.
There it is bro, I want the last check I write to bounce!
Spoiled Rotten Brat Waiver
Thanks.
Yeah, one of those truck drivers that Charlie just l-o-v-e-d to shoot at. I’m runnin’ around in the bush thankin’ my lucky stars I wasn’t a goddamn truck driver.
right,
and when the war supporters like the Bloody Kristol are asked about casualties, they always bring that up; as if the people who signed up weren’t interested in living out their service.
Wow, Raven. Glad you came back without physical injuries. Too bad they didn’t treat you better, tho. Your experience lends a lot to your comments here.
It’s funny, one of the guys I shipped with ended up a door gunner and he thought we were nuts! My admiration for people in the bush will never cease.
Door gunners were just flat out fuckin’ crazy.
That’s one of the reasons I joined the AF – I figured out that for the most part, in the AF, it was ocifers getting their a**es shot at and most of the enlisted types got to stay back outta the way.
Fuck em. I’m like the Dragon, make lemonade. It’s one reason I got my back up last night when the Project 100,000 troops were characterized as “mentally retarded”. Most, if not all, were educationally disadvantaged and that is the reason they scored so poorly on the standardized tests. For them to get railroaded by a system rigged to favor middle class “best and brightest” and then framed that was does not make me happy. Some of the best people I have ever known had reading and writing difficulties.
I call it “The University of Firedoglake”*g*
Unless you were on a Jolly Green and had to recuse then zoomies!
o/t
cbl hearts her some Thomas Frank -
- didn’t know Murdoch had hired him for WSJ – (but what will Peggy say ?)
- or that he has a new book coming out (yeay!!!)
- he has weighed in on the Bitter bs quite nicely
for you mr cbl – money:
‘Morning, all;
Ot, but still on my mind.
Juno, last evening I receiced a telephone call from a chap who identified himself as being from the Clinton campaign. He asked me if I would be voting for Clinton today, and I answered that I would be supporting Obama.
As you know I’m quite concerned about the ill-will between the ‘partisans’, so I wanted to talk with him a bit. I said that should Clinton secure the nomination, I would vote for her in the general election, and wondered if he was planning to vote for Obama if Obama won the nomination.
He answered that he was convinced that Obama would lose and therefore he would probably vote for McCain in the general election.
I confess that his answer was most-perplexing. So I tried again, but we ended with the same conclusion on his part …
Have you encountered this sort of reasoning?
(Note; I am not asking this question to start a discussion of the relative merits of either candidate, and I mean that, very sincerely)
Am sharing your comment with my Asperger’s son right now.
(Course he’s gotten the Highest Distric Science Test Score two months in a row. :))
Maybe they have not heard of stop/loss; no volunteers there, Im told
Sorry, who is your Asberger?
I knew that with my eyes, there was no way I’d been anywhere near a flying slot of any sort so not an issue.
sorry, attturk, OT but important—the lilly ledbetter fair pay act comes up before the senate today–please call and support it…..
del. eleanor holmes norton was here the other day to talk about,
comments 40 and 74 list senators on the fence, the post and comment 73 sums it up.
http://firedoglake.com/2008/04…..r-pay-act/
i just called voinavich again, he’s still on the fence–202-224-3353
all of the women in your life need you to write or call, now.
(and i recited that sat nite live skit one night on fdl, was really funny, also had the earl of sandwich who just wanted a few pieces of bread and a little meat., lord and lady doucebag just wanted greens ’with a little vinegar’……ROFL…)
I was on a can and met a signalman (skivvy waver) who had been in about 10 years and could read and write just well enough to perform his job. We sat down with him and improved his skills. He liked sports so we started buying sports-related books and teaching him to read with them. Turned out rather well. He was reading and writing at a high school level when I left the ship two years later. I got the nickname that folowed me throughout the service because of that. Professor.
Aspergers = functional autism.
My son loves to read, but has difficulty making connections about what he just read. Real hard time writing. Scientifically brilliant.
If there ever was another draft, it would probably keep him out. ‘Course, there’s always those waivers…..
I’m sure you have looked at Howard Gardner’s work on multiple intelligences?
I love it! I did my graduate work in Adult Literacy and it saddens me that I couldn’t get work in that field.
Autism and the Artistic Imagination; The Link Between Visual Thinking and Intelligence
Clair T. Berube Dr.
The author employs Howard Gardner’s Theory of Multiple Intelligences to frame a discussion about the abilities of children on the autism spectrum. Since autistic children possess special gifts in visual/spatial areas, an argument is made to support this ability instead of “correcting” it into a more “normal” range. References from Dr. Temple Grandin’s life are included. Dr. Grandin is an autistic adult who is living a successful productive life as an Associate Professor of Animal Science at Colorado State University. Since Howard Gardner discovered that there are several ways to be considered intelligent, the author makes a case for celebrating the differences and special contributions autistic individuals can make to society, even as these individuals must learn social and coping skills, without trying to cure these differences.
Before the war, 15% of my students at UAA in Anchorage were serving military – Army or USAF from the big posts in Anchorage. The percentage has slowly gone down – one level after September 11, and more drops with each successive failur in our war policy.
Where, before the war, a high percentage of enlisted men and women had goals of doing some or all their college while serving, that has become almost impossible. The war has done that.
I’ve seen about five former students now go through stages of descent from bright, positive student, to sullen husk of a person. Three have been injured, one of them seriously. One of the kids – actually he’s now approaching 30, who used to be his battalion’s PT chief, has tried to end his life more than once. It must be a crying out thing, because he’s fully capable of killing any of us instantly enough. My heart gos out to him and his ex-wife and family.
I haven’t. But, will look into that when I get back from taking sonny to school. Thank you. You’re a doll, as always.
Thanks. Very busy today. Again. Or still.
here here
Are there any Adult Literacy programs where you are? Could you volunteer at one? I’ve done it with a few people and it’s such a great feeling. More reward than money could ever bring.
are you familiar with Daniel Tammet ?
courtesy of semi regular firedog: Renee in Ohio
well, first let me say that I was under the impression, as a result of yesterday’s discussion, that drawing conclusions based on the opinions of supporters is wrong and considered “personal attacks.”
I’m also a tad skittish to respond to your post, but am too opinionated and verbose to not do so, because it seems that in responding, I am later accused of starting a bruhaha on an off-topic point, which I consider to be a double standard nonetheless. Quite a bit of pressure came to bear on me yesterday simply because I responded to someone’s post, and I was accused of going off topic. I kind of had to scratch my head.
Having said that, it is my understanding that there are people in both camps that are insisting that, should the other candidate get the nomination, they will vote for McCain. In both cases, it is illogical for obvious reasons, although I’d have to say that, since many Obama supporters insist that Clinton is really a neocon in disguise (or not even in disguise) and really is a Bush Republican, I’m not sure why, if they believe this, they’d be surprised that she would attract supporters for whom McCain would be more appealing than Obama. I do not believe that to be the case, but that is a common argument from the Obama side.
Ultimately, I think it’s a two-part phenom: Americans, as a culture, allow their emotions to rule too often (which is one reason I support Clinton, btw), and this is an example. This is the equivalent of a two year old saying, “I’m going to hold my breath until I get what I want.” I also think it may well be nothing more than a manipulative campaign tactic to scare fence-sitters into voting for Cinton (or Obama, if the shoe is on the other foot). I liken it to Michelle Obama’s saying this is a one-time shot so if you don’t vote for Barack now, you’ll have lost your chance.
Considering the last eight years, anyone who thinks a bulk of Americans are making wise choices probably needs to wake up a little bit.
Bottom line: I’d chalk that silliness up to politics and over-invested emotion.
Im signing off for about the 5th time to go to work….have a great day. Such a good conversation. Til we meet again and hear about PA. Thanks
Yea, there is a formal system in Georgia run by the Department of Technical and Adult Ed. I was responsible for their training program for 6 years while I worked on my degree. It, as it is everywhere, is woefully underfunded. Most recently I tutored at the neighborhood grade school. My work involves extending educational opportunity to folks so I’m ok on that front. I just feel sometimes I should be working with punk kids since I have so much experience being a punk!
There’s a tendency to use the word “injured” when “wounded” is more appropriate. One gets “injured” in a car crash. One gets “wounded” when the wound(s) have been inflicted on that person by someone trying to kill him, usually by, but not limited to, firearm or explosive. Just sayin’.
Oh, how I hate to leave. Are you saying your emotions are the reason you support Clinton? That seems to be, but I wasn’t sure.
What about Mic. Ob’s comment seemed manipulative? I thought she was genuinely saying we are not going to do this again, small children, etc. Made sense to me. Thanks
LOL. I’ve met a lot of great guys who used to be punks.
New post from Christy about McCain’s Cronies for your pleasure!
Shot at and missed and shot at and hit.
Shit at, my bad
KATZ needs to head to Iraq…and be placed OUTSIDE the Green Zone,take Condi with him
I agree with most of what you say(natch), and appreciate your very thoughtful response, thanks.
Reason prevails for some of us just as logic, clearly, has fled the perspective of others…
These are most interesting times.
was my comment removed i dont see it?
No, I’m saying I’m suspending my emotions to support her.
Not sure how you get from my obvious criticism of being guided by emotion that I’m saying I’m being guided by emotion.
Re: Michelle Obama;
If the small children thing were the issue, she wouldn’t have allowed Obama to run now and would have suggested he wait until their children are older, no? The children will not be young in another four or eight years.
It also makes no sense in terms of ambition to be president. If a 46 year old man isn’t ambitious enough to be president at a later time if he doesn’t get it the first time, I’m not sure how badly he wants it. If anything, he’d be more seasoned and capable at a later time. Usually parents start moving on to bigger commitments when kids get OLDER, not the other way around.
I find it very hard to believe that, if Clinton were to get the nomination, that Obama wouldn’t run in the future, and it would make no sense for him not to do so. I believe Mrs. Obama was saying also that the campaigning is too grueling to go through again. While I empathize with her about this and agree that we have made it too hard on individuals to run for office, I’m not sure how this squares with her husband wanting one of the hardest jobs on the planet.
No, sorry, I took that as a political tactic, just as I take Clinton’s shot of whiskey as one.
it is PRECISELY because he has YOUNG children that he should run NOW…if you havent noticed yhe country and the planet are going DOWN THE TUBES as we speak…we need CHANGE… BIG change,right now…imo
I agree with ALL of what you say, natch.
I just drove back from a meeting and saw a great bumper sticker:
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS
Impeach the Commander
That wasn’t what Michelle Obama was saying.
Btw, Obama cannot bring that kind of change around, and it is dangerous to insist that he can. You are setting him up for a fall.
yes we can
Another proud legacy of the Bush administration, news you’d probably expect to hear from developing nations, not the United States of America in the year 2008. This is the kind of news that should make people bitter, very bitter:
For the first time since the Spanish influenza of 1918, life expectancy is falling for a significant number of American women.
In nearly 1,000 counties that together are home to about 12 percent of the nation’s women, life expectancy is now shorter than it was in the early 1980s, according to a study published today.
nuff said
Uh-oh, there’s the music. You know what that means? Our time is up!
You are correct, no single person can bring about such change.
However, working together, for that common goal, all of us, might just be able to manage …
We had better try, don’t you agree?
No, we can’t. Change is slow, and big change even slower, especially positive change (ie: easier to bust up a China shop. Takes more caution to prevent it).
and that is why ,Hills message suxxxxxxxxxx.bidness as usual…NOT THIS TIME
Oh my goodness, and I thought that we were playing musical chairs …
What do you mean, ‘ICEBERG!!!’ …?
APPOLO type project..to get the country green!
Both Clinton and Obama would bring some change, but I’m addressing this worrisome (in my opinion) thinking that only Obama can save the world, will save the world, and can magically and suddenly get all peoples to jump on the Utopia Express.
That only leads to disappointment and often despair, and it sets Obama up for failure.
A excellent beginning, coupled to a world-wide resource ‘inventory’ …
YES WE CAN!!
yup…one must have the WILL,in WW2 after we were attacked…the country ALL PULLED together,and mobilized the greatest force on Earth,and in 2 years TURNED the tide
forgive me…sort of a triumph of the Will
Juno, nobody here thinks Obama is going to save the world, any more than they think him the Messiah …
Now, you know.
Please, Juno, you have a measure of us, as we’ve a measure of you …
Let’s not insult that basic appreciatiion any longer.
You know that I agree with many of your views, just as you agree with many of mine.
There are no strawmen or women here.
Why even Scarecrow’s ’stuffing’is substantive, insightful and courageous.
(Just making a point, Scarecrow, hope you don’t mind, ;~D)
we must mobilize
Clapping hands in appreciation …
Up with real ‘triumph’ …
No apologies ever necessary when encouraging hope and humanity, as far as I’m concerned.
Wow! Doubles ….?
Considering the GOP plan is precisely to THWART anything the new Dem president does…
Well, we SHOULD be used to that THWARTING um … mentality by now.
But are we going to let it stop us? slow us down? make us wring our little paws in despair?
No! A resoundinmg no!!!
Would you agree?
(You can tell that I’m trying to be ‘agreeable’?)
I don’t think capitulation/apathy is the alternative.
I’m saying high expectations that ignore realities lead to trouble. Think Iraq.
Juno ‘high’ expectations regarding Irak is nonsense.
I’m talking about human beings actually getting a grip on REALITY and we have to begin some place.
Can you agree with that?
This is NOT ABOUT OBAMA OR CLINTON!
This about us, human beings and our world, what we understand about it and about ourselves, as well as all those things we have, historically, CHOSEN, collectively, as a species to NOT KNOW ABOUT or NOT ACKNOWLEDGE.
If you get my drift …?
Raven :)
I take everything I find with a little caution :), but there were stories out there, and ‘who’ ever shot Pat Tillman was very ‘precise’. There is still many questions there..
Also, I know everyone here is either really, really smart or trying to be smarter, which explains why I’m here ALL the time, lol (I’m one of the ‘trying to learn folk!), so when I’m over-reaching, I still learn…
I was thinking of Dr. (Jonathan) Katz and his patients.
Juno, We know that is your view of Obama and his supporters. Like screaming, it does not make that view any more accurate or correct because you keep saying it. Do you now find it very insulting to keep telling a group of pretty smart, usually well-intentioned, thoughtful people that they are somehow delusional/misguided/tricked because they happen to support Sen. Obama. Many people in this year may be for the “wrong” person; for many of us the choice was quite close/difficult. Having made the choice to go with Obama, does not mean we buy everything he says and it certainly does not mean we are detached from reality. For you to make that pronouncement is not only erroneous, it is condescending, etc. Sorry only supporting HRC represents the world of reality. Good grief.
Mr. Katz says “no problem” to his own estimated 1000 suicide attempts per month among veterans? Employment security seems to be his biggest priority, and I mean his own.
What I found helps relieve the agrivated folks that run around “saying and demanding” us to support the troops and then sing the “vote for Senator McCain” song. I ask of them exactly what is it you actually do or have done to support the troops?
The average answer is replied to very uncomfortably. The normal response is in the catagory of “showing something to others” or what I call making a display of support”.
And by now we all know that putting a “support the troops” magnet on your vehicle is not as quite the sacrifice of knocking on your Congressman’s door and bending his/her ear to correct Walter Reed Hospital or vote for the Veterans benefit bill.
A phone call to your senator on VA funding is too difficult and too partisan for these folks.
Taking the time to learn and understand all the issues and realities of Iraq so one could act on those facts is supporting the troops more than a republican flag pin (made in China) worn on the lapel.
Like in the White House, we have many that never served in the military.
This doesn’t make anyone specifically yellow or less American. But there are those that feel they are viewed as yellow and make aggressive points to attempt to make up for their percieved lack when they were able and capable yet, chose otherwise.
As our 5 deferment war hero monger Vice President Cheney tries at every decision to prove to the world he is not a coward. And that the V.P. in fact had other more important things to do than serve his country. Now he demands of everyone else to serve and support the troops he places in harms way for Exxon/mobile profits.
Their self percieved cowardness causes them to over react and over extend their proving decisions which they feel ensures their perception of strength and only places those that they effect in irrationally deeper harm.
The majority of Americans don’t give a rats ass about our combat troops in Iraq and or they feel impotent to do anything about it. Which category do you fall into? Most Americans don’t even understand that war is personal. They see it as some remote philosophical policy debate. They don’t see the reality of human suffering, death, dying and what flying pieces of metal do to the human body. The war in Iraq is no more violent to them than what they see on television and in video games. This administration actively prevents what’s going on in Iraq daily from being seen in the daily news! Between what the Bush government wants and what network news is unwilling to do, Iraq is just a walk in the park, and what we don’t know can’t hurt THEM.