DEZ!

I voted this morning at 10:30 with Hillary supporters chanting as I walked to the entrance. NW Penna., the part of the state James Carville describes as Alabama. Mostly senior citizens at the time, but no long line as it took only about 10 minutes. Seemed to be more voting machines than usual, the touch screens, and the usual under-the-breathe swearing because people don’t like them, including me. All in all a very normal voting experience.

Beautiful sunny day here in PA-03. Gunna go down and write-in kucinich.

Digg it

How is the primary done in PA; can GOPrs cross-over and vote in the primary?

WHY?!!!!!!!!!!

Oh the Humanity!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nope, it’s closed.

it is not sunny here boo,it hasnt been cept twice in a month,and my Camelia bush ,somehow blew over last night…….i injured my left wrist,and my right one was operated on 2 years ago…..wah…..i need another pair of hands,just sayin

no one else to vote for?

but we have NEW BABY calves in the back pasture so life is good

Nope.

March 23 was the last day to register or change registration. Anything after that is set in stone.

Just downloaded a sample ballot from my district. News to me—we have a 4 way race for state treasurer. I don’t know who ANY of them are. I not only have to vote for the candidates, but also have to vote for the delegates, and of course, being new here, I don’t know who any of them are.

I passed by one polling place on the way into the office today and several people hanging out outside—beautiful day. It should bode a large turnout.

So will you vote for the winner in Nov.?

Life expectancy is dropping for some US women, especially poor and rural ones. Seems to me that “pre-existing condition” question that Elizabeth Edwards asked John McCain to answer just got even more relevant, despite his attempt at dismissive snippiness.
——————–
my family and i were in the medical labatory biz for 48 years…my Dad,felt ,that blood levels of cotisol,the fight or flight hormone was a major cause of the disease process( fear) my peeps …constant fear mongering and stress will slowly kill us,and make our lives SUKKY if it doesnt…

I don’t see a place for write-ins. At least not on the sample ballot. We’ll see.

dayum,thats cortisol

I went at 11:15 and all ready about 25% of those registered voted.

Has there been any rumors or news about people registering as Dem. to vote for Hillary, only for the primary? Like in Texas.

G’mornin’ everyone. The sun is out in MN. Booyah!

Meanwhile, problems with PA voting machines.

Should I worry that my bank’s drive-through deposit equipment is made by Diebold?

A couple of tidbits from the Boston Glob:

The races ahead for those who are ready to move on.

A Nixon gives money to the Obama Campaign. Who’d a thunk it?

Promise you won’t vote for Nader, Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No. Why? Because at least there is a PAPER TRAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Does Rush Limbaugh have a large audience in PA?

Good news. Right now John Sidney McCain III has it better than he will have it at any time in the remainder of this election cycle. It won’t get any better than this…….so I’m not really worried about his relative popularity at this point. There is still an incredibly long way to go and once the Democratic candidate has been decided upon, (Obama), people are going to see how they match up head to head and I don’t think there is anything in he McSame store that he is selling that people are at all interested in buying.

But, please Pennsylvania, give us a definitive outcome to end this race once and for all.

Just dreamed up a new name for Ralph: The Terminader. Bwahahahaha!

Not much. They would have had to do that a month ago in a very premeditated way.

I’m discovering that there are a lot of folks who are registered R almost because they have to for their work. I have 2 in my congregation who are as dem as can be but registered R’s. One worked for the school district for eons, the other is a judge. I’m learning lots of new stuff about how strange PA politics are.

i want to say a word about,Cindy McCain,it was reported her company ,made 300 million dollars per YEAR….folks any acct,will tell you a BIZ like that is worth AT LEAST …10X EARNINGS…she is the sole heir to that fortune…she is worth WAY MORE than 100,000,000.00 dollars…more like 2 TO 3 BILLION at least
why is MCSHIT taking social security and 100% medical dissability,cannot that money go to those who NEED IT? just sayin

I was just googleing for a sample ballot and FDL came up #1, lol.

This, of course, assumes that once the deposit leaves one’s hands, being sucked up the tube, supposedly into the bank, that a paper trail will be forthcoming. Dang! Where’d I put my tinfoil hat?

PERISH THE THOUGHT!!!!!

I would never do such a thing.

It’s the SUPREME COURT. Period. (how many times have I typed those words here? Lost count.)

good un!

He takes it because he can. He is, afterall, a Republic.

I don’t know I’m from Texas.

they are NOT GENEROUS TO CHARITY either….ewwwwwwwwww they grotesque peeps imo

funny.

Here’s mine. (just in case you might be interested)

Has there been any rumors or news about people registering as Dem. to vote for Hillary, only for the primary? Like in Texas.

I was forwarded an email from an old classmate (R) that had been floating through the rightosphere; but imo while he would bother to forward the email to friends, I don’t think he’d bother to change his registration by deadline and then take himself to the polls today to vote.

Via TPM mentioned in the last thread. McCain helping an Arizona land developer.

The most delicate of the three transactions for the McCain camp is undoubtedly the Army deal: an old base in Monterey County, California called Fort Ord. Helped along by a meeting with an Army official set up by a McCain aide, Diamond got the inside track on the land, which ultimately made him a $20 million profit. McCain had also written a letter to the city of Seaside, California, enthusiastically recommending Diamond, who was making a bid to buy Fort Ord’s two golf courses that had been acquired by the city.

Sound like some pretty special treatment for a multi-millionaire campaign contributor? Not so, says the McCain camp. Any average Joe Arizonan making a bid for a luxury resort in another state would be sure to get the senator’s assistance:

A spokeswoman for Mr. McCain, Jill Hazelbaker, said the senator, now the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, “had done nothing for Mr. Diamond that he would not do for any other Arizona citizen.”…

To paraphrase Calvin Coolidge, for John McCain the business of America is business as usual.

That’s cronyism on a scale that would make a Bush proud.

And just to help keep down voter turnout in Pennsylvania, we have David Brooks:

There’s something about obsessing about a campaign that doesn’t exactly arouse the imaginative faculties.

As always, the story is about him and his not exactly arousing writing.

hope Christy doesnt mind this
saw it at Counterpunch

The New Print Edition of CounterPunch, Only for Our Newsletter Subscribers!

War Hero? Meet the Real John McCain:
North Vietnam’s Go-To Collaborator

What actually happened in his POW camp that twisted John McCain and made him the unstable bully he is today? Was it abuse, as he claims, or was it the fact that he collaborated extensively and has to cover up? In this EXCLUSIVE expose, Vietnam war historian Douglas Valentine gives us the answer. Read how the Vietnamese protected and promoted him and how in return Hanoi John danced to their tune. McCain was on Vietnamese radio so often he was tagged as “the PW Songbird”

Thanks. Also funny, I’ve seen signs around for a delegate.

Though I do think that there are a lot of folks who felt they had to register R for “business” reasons who may have re-registered as D. because they really want to vote D in this one. That has not been explored much on all of the blogs I’ve read—not even by the PA bloggers.

well paid sawed off shrimpie LIAR
1,500,000.00 per year…
what him worry?

That’s cronyism on a scale that would make a Bush proud.

What gets me is that this comes across as just a somewhat more sophisticated dodge than the one that got Rick Renzi indicted.

What do we call that “POW-boating”?

Oh, if I could I would so be there..I love calves..I miss that we no longer have livestock. Spring is so great(now, having babies in February is no walk in the park, but in april and May, hoooweeee doggies).

Mornin Redd,

We have a nice day here as well after a not so great period.

I’ll take Hillary plus 10 if no one has it yet.

Just finished reading Kevin Phillip’s new book that he discussed here..
Scared the shit out of me- and I’m not easily scared..He really thinks that we’re in for thirty years of shit economically. He also suspects that the next president will be a one termer as the economic storm continues to blow across the land…He thinks that the days of American supremacy have ended (except of course for military supremacy that he doesn’t get into.)

NYT has a great editorial on gw Clusterfuck’s latest bull shit on the environment- which I’m sure you read.

Happy election day.

Oh, one more thing, Phillips presents some interesting info on Obama’s ties to Wall Street and the NYC finance community as well as the Illinois Coal Industry- worth looking at.

i wonder WHAT the whole story is,mind you i would sing MY ASS off too,but im no hero…”g”

OT – chimpy presser live on CNN

Or maybe “song-birding”.

i shall post them at my blog for VICARIOUS thrills,they keep me sane,in this insane world

I keep hearing the guy in the next cube talking about how this isn’t a bad recession, it won’t be as bad as the 70s and certainly not like the Depression … and I laugh, because he isn’t really old enough to remember either one, and clearly missed the last one (the 90s) too. Of course, he also thinks the stock market and housing prices will recover by the end of the year. (He plays the market. Constantly.)

Brooks is channeling the old poem “The world is too much with us late and soon.”- but of course he misses all the most important connections.

My husband was watching “The Manchurian Candidate”(the old one) last night and I had to leave the room. It just creeped me out so much.

yea mebbe thats why ..he DONT WEAR da flag pin so much…”g”

Diamond is McCain’s Best Friend.

Brooks claims to love the middle ages when man was more in touch with the light of day and the cold of night—–He can have it all back by turning off his fuckin electricity- that will give him an intimate connection.

yup and ON THE BEACH from the same era…looks like we are heading back there
with HILLARY BRANDISHING,her nukes

McCain: Champion for the Advantaged!

Brooks’ contribution today was a long-winded riff on C.S. Lewis, “other” writers and historians (he’s very careful about sourcing, don’t you know) and how the magical thinking attributed to medieval life was so much more fulfilling than today’s fact-obsessed, romance-less world. All in the context of him finding American presidential election campaigns boring. (So why vote, eh?)

Funny, I would have thought that Lewis’ friend and Oxford contemporary, J.R.R. Tolkien, would be more Bobo’s style. He’s such a Hobbity sort of fellow.

I’m afraid I agree about it being one term – people are looking for someone to do a massive cleanup, but how can anyone even begin to get their arms around all the mess and grab a broom at the same time? Impossible. Just think of all the different things that next person should deal with: The war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, the economy in general and the mortage crisis in particular, education, the war on the Constitution, the DOJ…this list just gets heavier and heavier. The person would have to be like that Hindu goddess with a thousand arms just to make a grab at it.

Multi faceted McCain.

Anyone else think Hil had her “Dean Scream” moment last night on KO, laughing like a maniac when questioned about Scaife and going on and on about obliterating Iran?

Someone ought to ask him if he wants to go without his microwave and his CD player and the heated leather seats in his luxury car. That should shut him up fast.

Yep – first time we ever had a calf to raise, I made the mistake of putting feed into my hand and putting it in his mouth to get him to learn to eat. Big mistake — I couldn’t feet my arm for about thirty minutes after that.

1,820 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen babrara:

“The sun is out in MN. Booyah!!”

Where in Minnesita is the sun shinin’…over here in the St. Croix River Valley, it’s still drizzlin’ like a big runny nose!! I jest hope the temps stay up in northern MN…walleyes need a good long spawn this year er I’m gunna be crabbier’n usual!

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION…AND KEEP THOSE BASTARDS AWAY FROM MY FISHIN’ HOLES!!

Though I do think that there are a lot of folks who felt they had to register R for “business” reasons who may have re-registered as D. because they really want to vote D in this one. That has not been explored much on all of the blogs I’ve read—not even by the PA bloggers.

I’ve never read anything about it before either.

All we have to do is start showing pictures, lots and lots of pictures of McSame’s 8 houses. How do you think Joe sixpack is going to take to that when he struggles to fill the gas tank?

If we can’t beat that SOB we are SO doomed!

Punaise would be proud.

Conservatives all like to mention Lewis because he’s a biggy among the fundies- who don’t understand him AT ALL. Probably Brooks doesn’t either…His book “Mere Christianity” was done while he was on the radio explaining christianity to radio listers. He also did some more serious work on the subject that Brooks might not like at all.

I agree with you in part. I’m hopeful that Obama is smart enough and strategic enough to target a few key areas in which to succeed and show he is moving the country in the right direction and get some mo’ going to carry into a second term, possibly. But you’re right, it will be tough for anyone wanting to change direction, not swim in more of the same.

Cackles don’t count.. Especially when it’s about Scaife support or bombing nations into oblivion…. The GOP MSM won’t allow it, even on KO.

From what I heard this am, they have to register. I heard that alot of Rs had registered dem so they could mess up the outcome and be a part of Rush Operation Chaos. Apparently, quite up front about that tactic.

Whomever gets it will have to very publicly set the expectations and timetable low—be very explicit about the amount of damage done and how long it will take to clean up. Then they need to start doing the work rather quickly.

Gee, RevDeb, that’s such a good point cheap shot! :P

Oh, honey, I wish you walleyes in abundance! *g*

South suburban (sigh) Twin Cities metro. Had a whopping thunder-boomer storm last night.

Yeah some of the giggling was an OK response- but one of the giggles was really creepy given what KO was sayin at the time. Not her best moment.

he loves the middle ages ,cause they could wear these,and look much taller and more important

http://scribalterror.blogs.com…..log2_2.jpg

I get it, no poo-slinging but keep bringing this fucking bulklshit up. Jesus

hope Christy doesnt mind this
saw it at Counterpunch

The New Print Edition of CounterPunch, Only for Our Newsletter Subscribers!

War Hero? Meet the Real John McCain:
North Vietnam’s Go-To Collaborator

What actually happened in his POW camp that twisted John McCain and made him the unstable bully he is today? Was it abuse, as he claims, or was it the fact that he collaborated extensively and has to cover up? In this EXCLUSIVE expose, Vietnam war historian Douglas Valentine gives us the answer. Read how the Vietnamese protected and promoted him and how in return Hanoi John danced to their tune. McCain was on Vietnamese radio so often he was tagged as “the PW Songbird”

If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, does it make a sound?

Very doubtful that all of the major networks are going to play and replay that video like they did Dean. Not gonna happen.

Yes, Laura Ingraham is bragging out it.

i have same idea
Mrs ( isteal drugs from my own charity)
is worth 2 TO 3 BILLION on MY CALCULATOR

Excellent film. A bit dated, owing to budget restrictions, but far better than the remake (though not, I think, because of Denzel Washington’s acting).

As England’s Cambridge Spies (Burgess, McLean, Philby and Blunt) proved, a good mole can do many things far more damaging than musketry. As Karl’s own career vividly demonstrates, a good mole can burrow into a political opponent’s campaign as easily as he can into his foreign adversary’s bureaucracy.

I don’t think we’ve reached the pain apex yet in this Clusterfuck the politicians have given us. The most dangerous thing the new prez can do is to take up where BUSH leaves off with the “We’re making progress” bullshit.

i would like to know…i think he is certifiable

I’m a big believer in not being delusional – I think whoever gets the nomination (and let’s all make sure that we do our part to get the Democratic voters to the ballot stations on Election Day because that is where the deal gets done)needs to come out right on the first day after they get the nomination and say, “Folks, we are in one hell of a mess. And it’s going to take more than four years to get ‘er done. I need all the help I can get; which means that everyone in Congress has to be helpful. If you feel that your Rep. or Senator is not going to be helpful, then make sure when you get into the voting booth in November that you send me people who will be helpful. Otherwise, this will be a whole lot more of the same and I don’t think as a country we can stand any more of the same.”

If we can’t beat that SOB we are SO doomed!

I know I know!! he doesn’t even have his own party’s devotion.

Do you work near me? I’m hearing the same conversation.

You’d like to know what? Here, why don;t we just link to this page for the REAL truth.

This is the work of Ted Sampley, you want to be associated with him be my guest. This stuff is worse than stupid.

It’s likely that conditions will be WORSE at the end of the first term of the next prez than they will be at the beginning. Tough to run for re-election on that thin gruel.

works for me.

did you think my comment was “delusional”? ouch.

Tony Snow has a column on CNN here. There is a place to comment, supposedly, but mine doesn’t show yet. Something like: Tony Snow sneered at and lied to the American people from his podium at the White House. CNN thinks we should care what he says? Shame.

I’m sure CNN would like to know what we think of their new shill.

I’m seeing the stuff about McBush singin at the Hanoi Hilton in many places on the net. Haven’t seen it on teevee yet- but someone must be pushin it.

I’m sure CNN would like to know what we think of their new shill

You have a higher opinion of CNN than I do. I don’t think they dive a damn what we think.

I’m seeing the stuff about McBush singin at the Hanoi Hilton in many places on the net. Haven’t seen it on teevee yet- but someone must be pushin it.

well it’s a hideous accusation to make without showing the proof.

There’s a tough nut for McBush in the torture issue- connected with the fact that HE was tortured. Real torture probably doesn’t work out like Hollywood torture where the hero just spits in the faces of the captors and refuses to say anything.

This asshole and his posse at the POW/MIA League have been at it for years. I will say it again, McCain has plenty of legitimate problems that can be the focus, to stoop to the level of these swiftboat scumbags is something even Hillary wouldn’t do. . . well, in a pinch. . .

Either Hil’s group is pushing it or McBush’s group is pushing it themselves in a Rovian attempt to martyr themselves. Ala when Rove bugged his own office, when Lieberman accused Lamont of hacking his website…

I can’t seem to get past the belief that McCain is the Pugs’ sacrificial goat in this election. Lotza folks seem to agree this is a one-term presidency, whoever gets the nod. Would Pugs really sacrifice one of their top-tier lapdogs? There’s more to this than meets the cynical eye.

Any journalist in Vietnam tracking down the stories of McCain’s collaborating with his captors?

Oh no, not at all. As a matter of fact, mine was – can you imagine anyone getting out there and saying to the electorate – “throw out your dead”? Jimmy Carter is a great and good man, probably the first truly honest and good many we ever had as president – Congress destroyed him. We are now in the most dangerous place this country has ever been in since it got started – right up there with the period of the War Between the States. The very foundations of this country have been eroded and corrupted. We won’t even start to talk about the economy and the wars. To get that filth taken care of is, in my estimation, Job One. But do we have people in Congress with the guts to take out the shovels and brooms and backhoes to do it?

Everyone knows that a Republican, most anyway, would sell out their country to make a buck or protect their sorry butts. Did McCain sell out his comrades at the Hanoi Hilton?

1,820 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen dosido:

“…target a few areas in which to succeed and show he’s moving the country in the right direction and get some ‘mo going into a second term.”

I think that Clinton incrementalism is the last thing a new leader needs to follow in order to solidify his support and gain acceptance of change. My example is 1933-34 in the first 100 days of the FDR first term…he had solid majorities in Congress and the country was sufferin’ as much as it’s gunna be in January of 2009…he took a page from “Crisis Capitalism” and rammed a well thought out, comprehensive reform package beginnin’ with bankin’ and securities regulation thru and the corporate fascists didn’t know where ta begin ta attack because people were gettin’ fed and gettin’ money in their pockets.

That’s what Obama’s gotta do and that’s why gettin’ the largest majorities possible in both houses of congress is so important. I certainly hope Obama is NOT timid and worried about a second term…good policy and good legislation make good politics. Feed the people and their hearts and minds will follow ya outta the kitchen and right through hell.

“…I’m hopeful that Obama is smart enough…” Jesus, that’s the last thing ya gotta worry about is his intelligence, particularly is political intelligence…he’s WAAAy ahead of any of us.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, FEAR IS JEST A WORD!!

You are serious aren’t you?

I think the GOP doesn’t give a rat’s a** who gets the shot this time and they are willing to pat John-boy on the head, give him minimal help and if he wins then whoopdeedoo. They know they’ve messed things up so much that one term with McCain is the best they can hope for in terms of keeping the gravy train going for themselves and keeping themselves out of court.

With you! My hope is that the voter outrage will continue to cleanse DC.

I didn’t know this until yesterday that there was/is a lot of voter anger in PA and many senior folks were shown the door in recent elections. Good on ‘em, PA folks!

Oooo…thanks for the great video!!

Here is some fun news…hmmm…I wonder if it’s real…looks kinda weird:

http://www.abc15.com/mediacent…..navCatId=3

Obama site hacked, redirects clicks to Clinton’s site
Cross-site scripting bug fixed, but researchers say others exist
By Gregg Keizer

April 21, 2008 (Computerworld) A cross-site scripting vulnerability in the social networking section of Sen. Barack Obama’s campaign site was exploited over the weekend to redirect users to the URL of rival Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.), researchers claimed today.

According to the U.K.-based antifraud company Netcraft Ltd., someone identified only as “Mox” confessed to the hack in an entry on the Community Blogs section on the Obama site Sunday. Obama, an Illinois Democrat, leads Clinton in the race for the party’s presidential nomination. The site exploit occurred just before this week’s big Pennsylvania primary.

“You may also be wondering, how did you get Hillary’s site to appear where Obama’s should be?” wrote Mox. “The answer to that is, through the magical world of Cross Site Scripting.”
anybody read this????????

Hi Norske!

You make great points. Make no mistake, I want our next president to be a bold reformist!

here what Hackworth had to say

http://www.vietnamveteransagai…..cker_2.htm

Trouble is- Obama’s apparently getting heavy funding from the very groups who most need to be regulated- Wall Street, Investment Bankers, Hedge Fund Managers, etc.

Someone needs to explore the connection. According to Phillips, the NYC financial community now hates the goopers and is funding dems- Obama is first in money received- Clinton second- and Edwards was third.

Yes, if I recall correctly C.S. Lewis was a simplistic, contrarian Christian in the science and fear-obsessed 1930-50’s.

That Bobo builds his entire column around him – rather than, say, Norman Cantor’s more realistic assessments of medieval life – is another homage to the Base, encouraging them in the follower’s notion that magical thinking is a fit approach to the modern world. And impliedly telling them that though this election may test their faith, they will ultimately prevail.

It gobsmacks the mind to imagine that anyone ranked Mr. Brooks c. 2001 as among the top 100 intellectuals. Magical thinking indeed.

9,000+ Google returns. Looking for a credible one . . . .

Some wise words from Booman for our later tonight poll watching:

One other thing to keep in mind tonight…

The first returns are likely to come in from Philly and its suburbs, and they will show Obama well in the lead. But as the night wears on, that lead will narrow continuously until it, most likely, vanishes. Don’t get too excited by early returns

Clearly, if this is true, Hil isn’t getting the message from the American people. We don’t want a winner takes all kind of character in the WH anymore. Winning at any costs, win, win win win.

OT but seems like good news:

BEIJING — A Chinese ship carrying weapons for Zimbabwe’s security forces that’s been blocked from unloading in four African nations headed home Tuesday with its cargo still aboard.

so is this BS?…enquiring minds want to know…”g”

Perhaps he’s funded by them because they know that there’s a disaster looming if we keep going in the same direction.

ya know,im beginning to think it has always been thus except for a few exceptions…sigh

Hey gang, LHP upstairs with a cool chart of PA.

thanx for the info and the links

It is total bullshit and it is the same thing they did to Kerry.

My hubby absolutely cannot stand the Clintons. His reason: it’s all about the Clintons. I was willing to be open minded for avery short while (i was/is an Edwards gal) but she lost me a long time ago.

Well—not exactly. He was a don- teaching classics at Oxford (or was it Cambridge). He was not simple minded in the least, although he did write a few simple minded pieces as a part of his radio broadcasts.

One of his comments after doing the radio broadcasts was something like “One of the biggest obstacles to believing in the minds of these ordinary people is that they are very suspicious of anything in writing.”…kinda funny I thought.

which part is bullshit?

the story? or the doing of the hacking? Who did it to Kerry? just curious, thanks!

Presumably, if McBush “sang” it was no different than the way every other tortured prisoner in Hanoi or Gitmo sang: they spilled their guts and said anything they thought would stop the torture. I imagine that with some, the torture went on so long they forgot what they said, and everything else except the terror. Hollywood’s and “24″’s portrayals of torture are as close to the real thing as a Willy Wonka factory is to a Toyota assembly line.

This really should be a non-issue, except to say torture doesn’t work and is cruel, inhumane, and illegal. I would give anyone, anyone a pass for whatever they said under extreme duress i.e. torture. FGS.

Doesn’t your head ever get tired pounding it against that wall?

ok ,Hackworth said he admitted to breaking the code,i dont know i wasnt there,but im sick of that loop of him saluting and staggering off the boat…he need to give it a rest,George McGovern did NOT behave like that

I agree- exactly—the trouble is that the more he gets built up for heroism as a result of his POW experience, the more vulnerable he is to being deflated if the details all get out.

Live by the sword——

me too

What boat?

Fuckin right, let’s be just like the lowlife motherfuckers that did a job on Kerry.

Between this and that shit last night, yea.

He taught English, though not modern English, at Oxford and then Cambridge. His intellect was first rate. My reference to “simplistic” was a description of his imagery of Christianity as having no Protestants or Catholics, sects or denominations, only simplified versions of good and evil, damnation and forgiveness, and salvation. He started out after WWI as an atheist, like many ex-soldiers who’d seen too much death. Perhaps that’s one reason fundamentalists here find some of his writings so attractive, but only if they don’t look too closely at it.

Hey- I wasn’t ADVOCATING this- just trying to figure out if it’s likely to happen. I’d say that it’s most likely if his campaign makes the mistake of layin it on too thick about his status as a hero.

I agree with you and dosido @ 126. It is McCain who uses that experience to bolster his political standing and as a talisman to ward off too accurate criticisms of his policies and his fuzzy thinking.

We have moles planted everywhere by the Fedealist Society and Regents University. They will drown the governemnt in a bathtub of privatization and incompetance.

i saw a loop AD,on Amerablog,of him limping off some conveance,saluting the officer in charge,and in bold was HERO,HERO,HERO….enuf…why is he a HERO?

He was raised an atheist as I recall and came to christianity because he found some sort of mystical experience that he couldn’t get to any other way- this is described in interesting detail in a long piece he wrote which is disguised as a children’s story. Quite interesting actually.

John McCain is NO hero to me….he had a bad experience,and im very sorry for that,but what has he done since to help FELLOW vets?

I do, but then, I’m from Massachusetts:

http://www.bostonherald.com/ne…..id=1088709

It’s probably true that those of us who were not involved personally in warfare are not in a good position to judge who is a hero and who is not. I would suspect that heroism looks very different in the flesh then it does on the silver screen- and that when you see it first hand it is both less romantic- and more profound than when you see it on teevee- but I have never been there personally.

Raven’s right — the group that these rumors are associated with are skeezeballs. Please folks, if you are going to post shit in the comments, at least have the courtesy of checking it out first to see if it holds up or post a big, fat “I have no idea if this has any merit or not because I haven’t bothered to vet it personally” disclaimer.

Jeebus, I run out to lunch with Mr. ReddHedd and come back to something I thought we’d already hashed out ages ago as being baseless smear campaign crapola.

Just as they drowned a still-born Iraqi government in their own priorities: privatizing the economy, especially the oil sector, and revamping their stock market. As if turning on the lights and getting potable water out of the tap were unimportant to the birth of a peaceful, American interests-oriented and utterly novel democratic government in the heart of the Middle East. Incompetence Unbound.

Mine was a general statement, nothing personal.

That’s a humility that doesn’t limit the Cheneys, Bushes, Goldbergs, Kagans, Kristols or Podhoretzes. They like war; someone else’s child always has to fight it because they have “better things to do”.

No one said he was a hero, it has nothing to to with what these people are trying to pull. We have been over this before and people have tried to frame me as a supporter or apologist. I am neither, I have been dealing with this kind of shit for almost 30 years and I will not sit quietly by and let it happen.

Weather is beautiful her in W Chester County. At 10 AM there were 200 votes, which is more than they got in any primary in recent memory. They have 800 Dem ballots, might not be enough. A well heeled elderly woman asked for a democratic ballot, they told her she could not have one since she is a Repug. She asked who was on that ballot, Paul and McCain. What good is that? took a change of party form and left.

Check out McCain’s deflection on health care at C&L. He was without (government) healthcare when he was a POW. Therefore nobody needs government healthcare. “Democrats want the government to run healthcare, I want the people to be able to make their own health care decisions”.

The reality is that many people cannot make any health care decisions/choices. They have no money and no insurance. When they do have insurance, then the insurance company decides what care if any they will pay for. The people do not decide.

Stephy let this Republican Bullsh*t stand.

No problem- I’m glad you are saying what you are saying.

That was probably getting off the plane when they were released.

HE USES that damn tape,over,and over,and over ,and over again…..I WILL QUESTION HIM if he doesnt stop this bullshit pschological warfare bs

OT but for all the kitteh luvers a real engineer describes kittehs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHXBL6bzAR4

I DO think that a military record is relevant to evaluating a candidate- and it should be evaluated OBJECTIVELY if it is to be evaluated at all..

If a man throws his military record out there as a part of his credentials to lead, then it’s fair to look at it closely and see what’s in it.

Has McBush released his complete records? It wouldn’t be fair for him to cherry pick the good stuff and ignore the bad in my opinion.

Can I have dibs on some of the raw milk from mama? Huh? Huh? Pretty please. With a cherry on top?

What in the hell are you talking about? What psychological warfare bs? It’s a political ad. The sole thing the man has going for him is his military service record and the faux PR persona he’s cooked up for himself as a “maverick” and a “straight shooter” through the years, which, as it turns out, isn’t exactly an honest portrait any more than George Bush was a cowboy.

But he was a POW for years, he survived an enormous amount of torture — more than I could have, I can tell you that much — and he was respected by the men who were in captivity with him and still is to some extent. He earned whatever respect he gets for this, as far as I’m concerned, with every broken bone and every beating and every other thing he had to endure while in captivity, as did every other POW we had there.

If we are going to attack him, let’s attack him for who he really is — especially who he pretends not to be but is anyway when the press isn’t looking. But the man was a POW, he survived it, and he doesn’t deserve to have his reputation smeared for something that is blatantly false just because you or anyone else don’t like him. That’s for the Lee Atwater’s of the world, but it certainly isn’t the level of gutter politics with which I plan on being associated.

[comment removed at request of commenter]

Do what you want, and every time you use this kind of sleazy bullshit I’ll be here if I can.

The most relevant part of McBush’s resume is the time he spent as commander of the Naval Air Station in Pensacola. He apparently did a good job of increasing the readiness rating- but was then passed over for promotion….

It would be fair and reasonable to look into that and to speak with some of the people who served under him.

I don’t think we’re ever going to see the full Bush records. As for McCain’s, I think a lot of them were released or leaked in the 2000 campaign — I know Rove tried to do a number with them in SC…

Geeze Red, I was able to leave and go swim, now I don’t know what to do???

That’s the same group that Raven was talking about above — they use this negative crap about McCain to fundraise off of widows who still hope to find remains of their families — but other vet groups, legitimate ones, have said repeatedly that there is no truth to what they are saying.

It’s a sham, for their fundraising, and not one worth perpetuating in my book.

I just went over and read the stuff, and I think it is a major swiftboat job too.

It would be interesting to look more deeply into his command experience. I would like to know if the alleged temper problems showed up there.

Hell, I just got back from a leisurely lunch. *g* Go swim…maybe we need to put together a FAQ post on these folks at some point for FDL. There are a whole hsot of things about McCain that I find abysmal, but this isn’t one of the areas that I think is either fruitful nor fair to attack, because every piece I’ve seen alleging anything is founded on the same innuendos that have no real foundation of proof to them from these same folks.

But then, maybe McCain’s people ought to be doing that as well…

They did, from some reports that I can recall sifting through. Including in his autobiography, I think. The WaPo had a review piece on McCain’s temper recently, but I think it mainly touched on his electoral experience and not his military tenure…

Afternoon, all..

Just wanted to say that was a beautiful video, Christy. Made my day. :D

Glad you enjoyed it — thought we could all use a lovely break for today. :)

Face it: Repubs get away with bashing veterans, Dems do not.

There’s plenty to use against Repubs now. McCain’s Vietnam experience isn’t one of them. Would likely backfire anyway.

Good point. McCain was an Annapolis grad, the son and grandson of admirals. He flew combat in Vietnam and spent over five years at the Hanoi Hilton. If he was deemed fit and competent enough to command NAS Pensacola, the home of Naval aviation, he would presumably have still been on track to make admiral.

If he was then passed over, something hit the fan.

But he was a POW for years, he survived an enormous amount of torture — more than I could have, I can tell you that much — and he was respected by the men who were in captivity with him and still is to some extent. He earned whatever respect he gets for this, as far as I’m concerned, with every broken bone and every beating and every other thing he had to endure while in captivity, as did every other POW we had there.
——————
how do you know that
and does surviving torture,make one a hero?
it is psychological,propaganda,to show a prisoner who is hurt(plane crash) etc,maybe beatings,AND CALL HIM a hero……….he is in his own votes PRO TORTURE…makes me believe he wasnt tortued,OR he is BATSHIT CRAZY…rant off

I am no fan of McCain. But being tortured for 5 years and permanately losing the ability to raise your arm over your head…I think anyone regardless of their political views deserves to be taken care of for life. IMHO.

I’m sorry, but I never said hero. You did. I said respect. But he was tortured according to all of the other men who were there with him, heard his screams, saw his broken bones and, in some cases, helped to reset them. I’m not just taking his word for it — there were a lot of our men who were captured and staying in the Hanoi Hilton, and there was video footage taken which was recovered of some of their mistreatment — and there is live testimony from them as well as written documentation.

There is a lot of information out there available publicly from reputable sources should one want to educate themselves about it rather than simply surmise things based on innuendo and half-truth. It just takes a little digging…

you really think you are on to something don’t you?

the Ad he is running on Amerablog superimposes the word as big as possible HERO,HERO,HERO…to me ythat is pschological propaganda…it is an endless loop like Rev Wright…that is what im talking about…and i question it bigtime

no,ill just cower in your superior tone to me

This site is run by a guy named Jim Kiley and is just plain hate on Kiley’s part. I don’t know what his beef with McCain is. I’ve exchanged a number of emails with Kiley, who goes by the name stealthactivist, and wouldn’t waste any time on his crap.

When the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth’s crap began to unravel I received a call from a guy identifying himself as a special forces historian. He had been told by my old CO that during the incident that was part of the focus of the attack, the rescue of the Green Beret Rasmussen, that I would know the truth because I was the one on the radio relaying between the Swifts and the base at An Thoi. I knew what was going on as soon as he started talking and what he got was an earful. Man, oh man, that felt good.

The term “Don’t feed the trolls” applies to all these scumbags. I’m with Raven. My back gets up real hard when I hear this kinda shit.

so tell me how in bloody dickens the man VOTES for a torture bill,

he needs to drop the psychological ads then…just sayin…they are very emotional

Perhaps he is a slow learner?

Mods…I agree…please remove my #157 if that would help.

LS

Because he’s running for the GOP nomination, and he knows if he votes against it right now he loses the rabid base that supports Bush and Cheney. In other words, as a politician, he put his political aspirations before his principles.

THAT is going to be VERY difficult for him in the end I would wager. He’s makin deals with devils at the moment.

I was actually being very nice in light of your approach.

it does not add up to me…
i have gone through vicious tornadoes ,and hurricanes,and lost my home and electricity for months at atime…seeing the Iraqis go through much worse…how could i EVER ADVOCATE such punishment for human beings…just sayin

and what appraoch WAS MINE please?

then they broke him,and he is a DESTROYED human being,and should not run

I was interviewed by some dude from World Net Daily about Kerry and the VVAW before the last election. I allowed that many of us in the VVAW were a bit wary of JK since he was an officer but that, by-and-large, he was a moderate force in the organization. They never printed it.

and how about ABU GAREB?

Of course I agree …

But I also agree with Christy and Raven that going after McCain on his torture ‘experience’ or ‘education’ is a dead elephant …

Yes, that was a very weak performance by Stuffy. Having spent five years at the Hanoi Hilton, and being permanently partially disabled because of it, is an argument for greater access to health care. Multi-millionaire kept man St. John, says people, not their government should choose their health care. The statement assumes the power of choice only someone with McCain’s wealth has. And he doesn’t need it because of his lifetime government health benefits. Snuffy could have offered that simple rejoinder to St. John and put him in his place. He didn’t.

I think the issue is affordable access to the health care. Re-regulating private insurors or, better, moving to a government sponsored single payer system, is the mechanism.

McCain warded off Stuffy by implying that he had no authority to challenge McCain on one of the top three domestic policy issues because forty years earlier McCain had been a POW. Wow, wouldn’t every employee like that argument to take into his or her performance appraisal meeting. “Thirty years ago the boss hit me with his car and skipped town, so you can’t criticize how well I audited the books last year.” But our traditional media award that excuse to St. John without a whimper.

tell him to stop running the HERO ADS then,and ill shut up and let him torture whoever he wants to

Oh, don’t shut up. You are so entertaining.

I haven’t had time to read all the comments but my approach with ads, those I do see, is to take them with a grain of salt. Republican campaign ads are going to play to the lowest common denominator, those with the most base emotions and the most reactionary. They are also going to lie right to your face, daring you to question them. They are going to be downright ugly. Republicans need a duality, good and evil. They need someone or something to kick and then put forth their choice of kicker. For those who need someone to blindly follow they work exceptionally well.

Pretty good diary on McCain – his new Keating:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..873/480178

he is a spinless Giggolo

well glad you enjoy it

last word i will say
McStain is NO HERO to me…and nobody else loke him either,he called himself,a war crimminal in 1994,and that is much closer to the truth imo

sadly, you are going to vex yourself to no end.

One would hope that St. John had learned a number of things, regarding tortue and healthcare ( as earlof. suggests).

As to McCain’s ‘tactics’, well, don’t let the outrage get you down.

It is not worth it.

In a sane world everyone would have to take Philosophy 101, which deals with the ability to recognize false argument, sadly, as you know, that is not the world we inhabit, as yet.;~D

yea!

as a politician, he put his political aspirations before his principles.

Mark Twain might have said that was being redundant. To echo Glenzilla, it’s exactly the kind of thing Dems and the traditional media must point out. Because.It’s.True. Not because they’re following in Rove’s footsteps and making stuff up. They owe it to American voters of all persuasions because it will determine who runs our heavily listing ship of state the next four to eight years.

Oppposition research on McCain has been done many times- and is probably being done again. We’ll know in five months or so what’s been discovered. Did Bush/Rove use it all?

Apparently Rove is advising McCain- so he can tell him what was in the Oppo research Bush collected.

yah,true……so easy for the billionaire senator,with all the perks to deny average people what they need to just live,and get by

I don’t know many heroes and I wouldn’t refer to McCain as one. There are many of us who may well fit into the definition of war criminal for what we did in Viet Nam. I’m not defending the behaviour but I do know that we do things under those circumstances that we now are not proud of. I spent a lot of time working in a program run by the CIA out of SOG Saigon and I lose a lot of sleep over that. I can’t change the past; I can only live with it.

of course i have been DEMONIZED for this very thing

Few have any idea my brother.

Probabaly all of us have experienced that sense of being misunderstood, even here with the best of intent and the best of friends …

my dad was a doctor in WW2 ,they took away his red cross card ,gave him a gun made him o captain…and told him to lead…..he was horrified,and it screwed him up for 50 years…..he was a hero to me,cause he tried to SAVE lives…set up Mash units etc…..we must be very careful who we let control the arsenal imo

im a big sportsfan like KO,i call em as i see em,but thanks

Raven as I’ve said to you before, much of your burden is unfair and unreasonable, and those of us who don’t have any idea, refuse to accept our share.

OLD MEN send YOUNG men to war…to do their bidding…sad that

Consider whether it’s the TONE! and not the message that makes it harder to listen. That’s what my kids tell me.

You don’t want a share, trust me. I don’t know many who want a Medusa-headed monster in their mind for the rest of their lives.

Late goin’ back to work. Ciao.

I know, just don’t allow it to hurt YOU.

Continue speaking to truth, but leave the anguish where it belongs.

It is no more your burden than the guilt which Raven and SouthernDragon are carrying for the rest of us.

If that makes any sense.

Having said that, I share that anguish …

we were all young and helpless,but we ARE NOT now…

well mebbe somewhat helpless

caio…we all will learn from the past …THIS time imo

I may not want to ’share’ but I was one of those who allowed you to go in my name. I faced prison for not going, but you went through hell for the rest of us. And I will not forget that.

Too many do not get that about Vietnam or Irak …

we must end it now…we must rally around ,who ever will do this…imo

Did you go to prison?

Truer words were never spoken, sadly …

i have no stomach for any more violence or war,i never did,truth be told

No, the wisdoms decided that would be counterproductive, so they termed me ‘morally deficient’ and backed away. I was not an easy mark, and they choose not to ‘play’.

I’m about to declare war on whatever fuckin little bugs are eatin my Pepper Plants- bastards!

rowing on the lake just now – whew – this is some post!! comments are deep indeed….

Bush and Cheney come to mind.

Do you think this is Legitimate: Link to JPG of PA ballot that does not have Obama on the ticket.

wtf?

Looks like the list of recommendations from the democratic party of Pennsylvania- they support Hillary.

Obviously what is being shown is not an official state ballot- it mentions numbers on voting machines- so there IS no paper ballot. It says “you can take this into the voting booth with you”.