Tenth in a series
For many years in this country prosecutors have enjoyed immunity from suit for the mistakes in judgment they may make, even if those mistakes result in a wrongful conviction. That may be about to change.
The NYTimes is reporting that SCOTUS has granted certiari in a case which may limit prosecutorial discretion for prosecutors acting in capacity outside a strictly prosecutorial role.
The Supreme Court accepted an appeal on Monday that could help define the boundaries of prosecutorial immunity in an era when the officials who head big prosecutor’s offices function as managers as much as they act as hands-on lawyers.
Now there are often two reason why SCOTUS decides to hear a case on a seemingly well-settled area of law: 1) to change the law and send it a new direction if it appears that it has gone too far down a given path, or 2) to reaffirm the well-settled law when it seems as if inferior courts are trying to chip away at it.
In this instance, a man wrongfully convicted of murder on the basis of false testimony by a jailhouse informant sued the top two officials of the Los Angeles County district attorney’s office on the ground that they had failed to set up a proper management system that could have flagged the problematic nature of the informant’s testimony.
In rejecting the officials’ claim of absolute prosecutorial immunity, the federal appeals court in San Francisco held that the suit was related not to the men’s role as prosecutors, but as office managers.
So, I find myself wondering, if doing managerial work pulls you outside the role of prosecutor such that your managerial duties were no longer immunized; what about an OLC lawyer who is functioning as a "mini supreme court" and instead of rendering neutral reports of the state of the law, begins writing policy papers while mislabeling them as OLC opinions?
If the Supreme Court is going to start making exceptions to the immunity the good folks at DOJ (and other prosecutors’ offices) have enjoyed, how many other exceptions might be carved out?
Mr. Van de Kamp and Mr. Livesay argued unsuccessfully in the lower federal courts that the suit should be dismissed on the basis of absolute prosecutorial immunity. In their Supreme Court appeal, Van de Kamp v. Goldstein, No. 07-854, they argue that “the dissemination of exculpatory information to the defense” is a “core prosecutorial function,” distinct from administrative functions like “hiring procedures and compensation schedules.” The lower courts were mistaken in viewing their failure to have a proper record-keeping system as administrative rather than prosecutorial, they maintain.
Mr. Goldstein’s lawyer argues that “entering information into and retrieving information from a data-indexing system” are “transparently administrative activities” and that no “floodgates” will open, because most prosecutors’ offices, including Los Angeles, now have the systems to avoid future mistakes.
So, I don’t know why SCOTUS decided to hear this case, and sure as shootin’ have no clue how they will decide it. Something tells me though, that John Yoo will be keeping a weather eye out to see how this case turns out.
And so will I.
[Editor's note: This photo by takomabibelot features a banner created and designed by Firedoglake reader BonnieT of Austin, Texas, where she operates OpposeTorture.org.]
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- At Pivotal Moment in Supreme Court History, Corporate Media Wonders if Sotomayor is “Racist,” “Activist”






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Uno
wow
Guys, I’m at the office and Littleprop is home alone, I’m gonna jump in the car and head home, I should be back on the thread in 15-20 minutes and I’ll catch up on the comments then. I was in the middle of a writing project and didn’t realize it was so late.
Be back soon
– LHP, the fdl master of understatement of the week…
OT – my new Kos post on the rapidly changing political scene in Alaska – just put it up ten minutes ago – is called Rahm Emanuel – Kos’s BFF.
Hey ET! I see Don Young tells fibs about Abramoff.
Thanks LHP
lhp – in this case was some obvious negligence involved?
Isn’t Yoo being sued right now by the Padilla family or something? I thought I read that somewhere.
This Court has a tendency to restrict the rights of individuals to challenge government decisions. So while they may not say immunity is absolute, I wouldn’t be surprised if they said it was nearly absolute. Just my $.02
Hey loosehead!
Seems to me this SCOTUS, except in extreme cases, back THE POWERS THAT BE and will affirm president. Gotta protect your own!
Would this have implications for the Siegelman case in Alabama?
Bob in HI
ot – the great orange satan is having trouble with some of your ’s – did you mark up the html outside of dkos?
It would seem to me that removing immunity would really put a damper on a lot of prosecutions…there would need to be some huge “malpractice” insurance policies required for a prosecutor as a substitution…
Basically, I don’t know what I’m talking about, but just taking a stab at it…
oh, that’s interesting… fdl read my html – as html and not text…. my -’s- should be -spans-
i was thinking of the very same analogy. …i wish we didn’t have to choose between the rights of those harmed and creating systemic incentives that might cause problems.
maybe if we (meaning society via government) took better care of those wrongly convicted (for whatever reason)?
I was reading it and got confused around the however-much-donation (four zeros). (Because the tags got messed up somewhere in the system, unfortunately, starting with the href just before that. Happens to all of us, one or another time.)
Go BonnieT:
“The focus of this project is a display of banners at multiple locations which read “Torture is Wrong”. Would you participate in this project? I will provide the banner and the installation. There is no financial commitment required.”
Boy, if accountability is in the air, wouldn’t that smell nice?
I think it should be handled the same way it is handled for doctors who cut off the wrong leg. Ouch.
Oh yeah, I do think the prosecutors should have been aware of their informants’ problem testimony, although how much of a problem it was in this particular case I don’t know. I mean, if your entire case – or a good piece of it – rests on those informants, you really ought to know how reliable they are and not reward them for saying what you want to hear.
Seconded.
Thanks lhp.
“Unfortunately, the lawsuit has a limited likelihood of success on the merits, as the Clinic is doubtless aware. But public interest legal clinics don’t necessarily bring cases with the expectation of success–at least not in the current legal climate. They do so in order to bring public scrutiny to bear on government actions that would have been unthinkable just six years ago.
The reason the suit is likely to fail is that government officials generally possess personal immunity from suit for their policy decisions. Were this not the case, government would be paralyzed by something even worse than partisan politics–the constant threat of litigation.
While this immunity has exceptions, when constitutional rights are violated the standards are very high. For example, what may seem to be egregious actions by law enforcement officials still do not lead to personal liability for their actions. Moreover, Yoo is being sued for masterminding policies others applied. Yoo didn’t do anything to Padilla, as the suit admits. Rather, he helped create the means and the methods for other government agents and employees to do the dirty work.”
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/cassel/20080114.html
Perhaps times are a changin’….
On the part of the individual assistants? I don’t know. The issue is the chief prosecutor. He has an obligation to set up a system to sift for this info. It’s kinda no fault thing. Lawyers in private law firms are required to conflict of interest checking systems in place. Sometimes the system does not work as intended, we are all human after all, but if the system itself is inadaquate, yeah, it’s negligent.
If you ever a get link, I’d like to go read the case file. Ah the joys of PACER
It may well be that they are taking the case, just to reaffirm and to smack the intermediate appellate court upside the head, or not. I’ve given up predicting. I just watch with eager anticipation
Hey Eg. Back in the house now. No traffic to speak of. Drive home was stunningly beautiful. All the flowering trees have hit and the color was just incredible.
Here is Jonathan Turley on the Padilla/Yoo lawsuit:
http://jonathanturley.org/2008…..-john-yoo/
If if if, and I tend to be a pessimist here, the SCOTUS were to redefine prosecutorial discretion as applying to only truly prosecutorial functions, it could get really interesting for Ms. Canary. I don’t think she was in the courtroom trying that case her own damn self. But, I tend to go with Hugh on this.
Here is a PDF of the Padilla/Yoo complaint:
http://howappealing.law.com/Pa…..plaint.pdf
Lawyers in private practice maintain insurance.
There is a link on this site to the Padilla complaint. The style is Padilla v Yoo, CV 08 – 0035, N.D. Cal, San Francisco division
Ooooh, guess what I’m gonna be reading this week? Thanks
You’re welcome…it’s the cheetos!!!
looseheadprop –
In case it has not already come to your attention, please look at this:
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/…..uantanamo/
i did not know that.
do lawyers get sued very often? is the insurance expensive? does the possibility of a lawsuit change the incentives for how a lawyer practices law? do other lawyers treat lawsuits against lawyers any differently than other professions?
oh, dear. that was a lot of questions. please feel free to ignore those that don’t interest you.
What’s the tactical reason for asking for damages of $1.00?
excellent. Thank you so much for the update and the link.
wow.
just started to read. wow.
Hell if I know…to change things? To sue for the principal of the situation instead of the money? Good question.
Lawyers are not sued very often. The insurance is not terribly expensive unless you are involved in more risky business, like securities law. We are not affected by the risk of being sued, because most of us recognize problem clients and get rid of them. There are very few lawyers who will sue other lawyers, and generally you have to go out of town to find someone who will sue in your town.
The point of asking for $1 is to make it clear that the suit is to vindicate rights, and not a profit seeking activity.
Heh….remember what Goldsmith said…”they” are very afraid of war crimes…he testified that to Congress. I’ll bet its getting a little claustrophobic for the “Torture Team”…
I think you mean the principle of the situation
The coverage is expensive but not like doctors. I don’t know if lawyers get sued very often, I have never been sued for my legal work. It is my understanding that in NY most legal malpractice claims are made AFTER the lawyer has sued the client for non payment and therefore the disciplinary committee won’t look at the malpractice claim in most instances until after the nonpayment case is concluded b/c most of the facts relating to the alleged malpractice will be aired in the non payment case.
To the extent that the possibility of being sued for malpractice changes how a lawyer practices law, it is for the better. if professional pride is not enough to stop you from being lazy or cutting a corner, threat of being sued is. So, I think malpractice liabilty is good for the profession.
To show that you are bringing suit for the principle of the thing rather than to enrich yourself
Oh yeah, I blame it on the cheetos *g*!
the sands info came out several weeks ago – accusations made via an interview with sands. everyone here watches or listens to or reads democracy now! everyday for their news, right?
the horton update looks like new to me so far.
I went back through the diary, erased every html tag, and then re-inserted new ones until it works. Sheesh!
Markos jumped on me for complaining that he’s Rahm’s BFF in Alaska.
Making up after the fact legal cover would remove any possiblity that he didn’t knowingly twist the law. And it makes all his current bloviating about how people can disagree on the interpretation of the law, even more transparently bullshit.
And it makes the Boalt Hall Dean look like a schmuck.
those orange crumbs do tend to get caught between the keys…*g*
OT – if the republican candidate’s age is fair game, can we call him McCane?
I just stole this link from the frontpage diary at KOS….OT but juicy:
http://corner.nationalreview.c…..WU3ODk3MjI
I’m nearly through with Kevin Phillip’s latest book. Has anyone else here read it? I need to go through it again- but the major theme that the democrats are the new darlings of Wall Street and the Finance Industry- who are giving Obama the largest share of their money- and Obama’s connection to the Illinois Coal Industry caught my attention..
Looks like Obama’s going to be the guy- and we had best figure out who is funding him.
If anyone else has read the book, I’d love to discuss it.
and that all looks good to me if it means there may be some accountability.
I should be interesting to see how Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, and, Alito handle it…!
Are they looking ahead to prosecutions of administration criminals? Setting the bar too high?
Gave you a recommend; it’s always interesting reading, thanks.
thank you for the explanation (and masaccio too).
The Cushing Spot price for crude oil closed today at $117.48/bbl. I really think that hedge fund/investment bank speculation is going to push this until the economy collapses. What we need is something like New Deal regulation or Teddy Roosevelt trustbusting. The economy can’t expand or even stay where it is with numbers like these.
Good Evening lhp and firedogs -
looseheadprop – did you see former DOJ/Criminal Div Dep Chief was indicted?
expected to plead guilty tomorrow
DOJ recusal, investigation handled in Maryland
link
What? They’re just casual acquaintances?
Wow, when it rains it pours…
Two points, briefly. I have a brief due to be filed tonite (Electronically), so I have to spend my time there.
I’ve spent a lot of time (though not as much in recent years) litigating legal malpractice suits, mostly from the plaintiff’s side, but also some from the defendant’s.
Yes, lawyers do get sued for malpractice, though it’s not as often as some might think. As a rule, they are pretty careful, if only because they know (even more than doctors) how nasty their peers can be.
Yes, the insurance is expensive. And, it will carry a “retention”, which is a fancy word for deductible. Depending on the size of the firm and the policy, the retention can be anywhere between $10,000 and $1 million. That comes off the top, and out of the lawyer’s own pocket.
Yes, the possibility of being sued does change the way lawyers practice, but most of the time only in the sense that it (1) makes them do all the work they should and (2) warns them off from cutting ethical corners. 99 44/100% of the time, the corner being cut won’t cause a moment’s disquiet to anyone. But, the time if does, it’s Katie bar the door.
And, there are defenses to malpractice cases that will make your head spin.
Now, as to prosecutors. I could write a book on this, because I’ve also spent a good amount of time defending them against suits by disgruntled criminal defendants. All this assumes the Court prunes back Imbler and the absolute prosecutorial immunity it grants.
First, chances are that as government employees, the government will have to cover their torts, so they won’t have to be going out and buying malpractice insurance.
Second, even without absolute immunity (and several other even more abstruse, obscure and effective defenses), state tort laws have lots of limited immunities which they will be able to hide behind. Stuff like “good faith enforcement of a law”, etc.
Third, judges already find a way around the prosecutorial immunity when the prosecutor is a crook, framing people, or both.
Fourth, the best defense a prosecutor has is “he’s guilty”. I once successfully disposed of a case where the plaintiff was saying “you kept me locked up on a minor charge with inordinately high bail by saying I was a prime suspect in a murder I didn’t commit and you never charged me with” therefore violating his civil rights. How? By noticing that plaintiff’s deposition. To win his civil cause of action, he had to prove “no probable cause” and his innocence of the charge. To prove that, he would have to have waived his Fifth Amendment privilege against testifying. And, my client, the Prosecutor, could feed me questions all he wanted. I told my adversary that, by the time I got done with the dep, the client would be looking at the business end of a needle and the attorney, the business end of a malpractice suit.
Case went away.
Problem is, he got that Assurance from Mike Chertoff (yes, THAT Mike Chertoff) who is no longer the Criminal Division chief. Nothing he said is any more binding of future Crim Div chiefs than Yoo’s memeo were binding on Jack Goldsmith.
Coughlin has been sitting on my scandals list at item 163 for a year now. It’s just a two line entry but I always felt there had to be more to his sudden resignation back in April 2007.
His new book having been recently called to my attention, I ordered it this past weekend.
Kevin Phillips’ recent appearance on FDL’s midweek Book Salon was a very pleasant surprise for which I would like to thank all at FDL who were involved with facilitating that pleasant surprise. :)
Yeah, EW’s been emailing about it, I expect she will be writing it up.
Again, if I’m John Yoo, I’m not sleeping all that well. Moreover, Addington should be incontinent if he’s paying attention. He not only is a ghostwriter on these memos, he actually went to to Gitmo to watch. The ghoul
Your list is the gift that just keeps on giving
Hugh,
I almost unfurled the scroll this weekend, when I was on a panel on blogging at the Alaska Press Club conference. The right time just didn’t happen, though…
Don’t you love the fact there’s no statute of limitations on war crimes…! ;-)
There’s also no statute of limitations on attorney ethics matters in many jurisdictions.
OT – re oil. i posted a comment on this when it happened – my heating oil company called me last week, as i was due for a delivery but had used almost all of the oil i contracted for last summer. they wanted to ask if i wanted a delivery because the cost has gone up to $4.07/gal – i checked the weather forecast (no cold fronts expected) and said no.
but if it’s just going to keep going up, maybe i ought to get at least a little bit now.
i don’t remember the exact price i paid last summer, but i think it was about $2.50/gal (and i thought that was high).
oh. and they called the same day that the gasoline prices went up in town 20 cents/gal – in one day. nothing like that has to my knowledge happened here before.
Heh, that’s good news for us…!
Yup.
Now, go read mine at 63….
hugh just added item #344.
which by my rough calculations puts his list (using your standard of 10pt helvetica) – at 101 pages and over 80,000 words.
thank you so much for sharing your insights and experiences!
yes I do, and I also like that Mike Chertoff is no longer deciding what crimes will be prosecuted.
lhp – what were they doing there? Holding up points cards like judges at the Olympics? Sheesh…what will they do next…put firecrackers into frogs and blow them up?
They went to Gitmo to observe the techniques they were approving. The significance of this for me (aside from the revulsion I feel) is that it makes it impossible to claim that they did not know that their endorsement of these techniques would result in those techniques being applied so harshly
Or some similar Nuremberg sounding defense
As if observing would give them much of an insight into whether the line between interrogation and torture had been crossed.
Observing was a three-fold exercise:
1. It bound all of them into the same conspiracy – like getting “jumped in” to the gang, or handing the gangsta wannabe a gun/bat and telling him to whack person X b/c we need you to (and you’ll make your bones that way).
2. It was pron for them. (One wonders who cleaned up the stains…. Maybe that’s why they used the one captive’s head as a mop, with Pine-Sol.)
3. It allowed Addington to further check and weed out those not sufficiently hard-core, by watching for their negative reactions (if any).
if pron=porno then,
yep
yep, and
yep
Not a chance they will limit prosecutors in any way, shape or form. What could be better judicial economy, than cutting these other efforts off at the knees, finding that prosecutors have the right to hide evidence by never listing it in the first place? This is no different than classifying the evidence, using it against you at trial, while being certain you never see it. Remember that this court was specifically appointed to sweep dirty messes under the rug and delay the day when issues are heard.
There were no war crimes. We were never at war. We were simply authorized to use force. Only Congress can declare war, and they did not declare war.
viet dinh is another olc lawyer?
never mind, wiki says he was in on the whitewater investigations and the clinton impeachment.He was approved by the senate by 99 to 1. The 1 being Hillary.Also a big part of the patriot act.
I was only wondering because of all the attention that is being paid to yoo and bybee.Sounds like he was right there with em all.