You may have heard the Pope is in town. Well, so is Our twice-divorced civilly-married pro-choice legendarily-adulterous Beloved Former Mayor. He decided to take in the mass at St. Pat’s. He also decided to take communion. Problem.
As he left New York’s Saint Patrick’s Cathedral with his third wife, Judith, the failed US presidential candidate confirmed to Reuters he took communion from a priest.
Asked if he was uncomfortable with having broken the church ban on the divorced and remarried taking communion, Giuliani said, "No."
…
Catholics believe during Mass, the communion host and wine are transformed into the body and blood of Christ.
At Saturday’s mass, the pope consecrated bread and wine that was distributed to the congregation by other priests. Giuliani did not take communion from the Pope himself.
Well, lots of stuff there
…Giuliani simply isn’t the Catholic candidate he claims to be. He can’t have a confessor. He can’t receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist, or marriage. While bishops disagree about whether or not a Catholic politician who supports abortion rights can receive the sacraments, there is no disagreement about the consequences of divorcing and remarrying outside the church, as Giuliani did a few years ago.
…
"Any Catholic who remarries without annulment" assumes an "irregular status" within the church, says Monsignor Joseph Giandurco, who until recently was the canon-law expert at the seminary run by the Archdiocese of New York. Also a judge on the appeals court of the archdiocese’s marriage tribunal and a canon-law adviser to Cardinal Edward Egan [of, well, St Pat's], Giandurco declined to answer questions about Giuliani individually, but speaking in general terms about someone with Giuliani’s marital history, Giandurco added: "The marriage is not recognized by the church, and the person cannot receive communion or confession. He’s not supposed to play a public role in the church." While a baptized Catholic is "Catholic forever," says Giandurco, a remarriage "breaks the covenant and objectively contradicts what the marriage bond signifies."
Specifically, this is what the Pope has to say about the subject
If the Eucharist expresses the irrevocable nature of God’s love in Christ for his Church, we can then understand why it implies, with regard to the sacrament of Matrimony, that indissolubility to which all true love necessarily aspires…The Synod of Bishops confirmed the Church’s practice, based on Sacred Scripture, of not admitting the divorced and remarried to the sacraments, since their state and their condition of life objectively contradict the loving union of Christ and the Church signified and made present in the Eucharist. Yet the divorced and remarried continue to belong to the Church, which accompanies them with special concern and encourages them to live as fully as possible the Christian life through regular participation at Mass, albeit without receiving communion, listening to the word of God, eucharistic adoration, prayer, participation in the life of the community, honest dialogue with a priest or spiritual director, dedication to the life of charity, works of penance, and commitment to the education of their children…
Finally, where the nullity of the marriage bond is not declared and objective circumstances make it impossible to cease cohabitation, the Church encourages these members of the faithful to commit themselves to living their relationship in fidelity to the demands of God’s law, as friends, as brother and sister; in this way they will be able to return to the table of the Eucharist, taking care to observe the Church’s established and approved practice in this regard.
So, according to the Pope, who consecrated the wafers and wine Giuliani doesn’t feel uncomfortable about illicitly partaking in with the whole world watching, the only way for him to be returned to communion with the church would be either to leave his wife or to, under the supervision of a priest or spritual director, live in perfect celibacy with his wife.
Ya think?
Otherwise, the Pope says that priests should withhold the Eucharist from people they know to be in an irregular marital state (and no, the possible secret annulment Giuliani sympathizers are floating wouldn’t do anything to regularize a civil marriage to a twice-divorced woman) because the church should not be seen to condone that kind of thing
The Catholic Church still holds that remarriage after divorce, though extremely common, is the moral equivalent of adultery, and so bars a person in such circumstances from receiving Communion.
“I would say that a particularly painful situation is that of those who were married in the church, but were not really believers and did so just for tradition, and then finding themselves in a new, nonvalid marriage, convert, find the faith and feel excluded from the sacrament,” he said.
Protecting the feelings of people in such situations, however, is not held as sufficient reason to admit them to Communion. Calling modern marriage a sacrament that is frequently “celebrated without faith,” the Pope reiterated that for a priest to give Communion under such circumstances would only serve to further undermine the integrity of marriage.
“We know that the moment we give in out of love, we harm the sacrament itself, and its indissolubility appears weakened,” Pope Benedict said.
Right on TV, too. And it’s not as if he didn’t know.
Bill Donahue, the Catholic League’s go-to guy on politicians being barred from receiving communion, had this to say in response to Giuliani’s act of sacrilege and public disobedience to the Pope
.
The priest who gave it to him? Not, I suspect, a happy man right now. According to Canons 915 and 916 of the Code of Canon Law, he was supposed to say no.
Way to go, self-identified theology student and seminarian wannabe Rudy.
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pic….*gag*
Yeah, yeah, I know. I considered the YouTube of her at a fundraiser talking about how romantic it was when they started cheating on his family together. Believe me, it was worse.
Is anyone surprised that a pathological narcissist like Rudy would go to the rail and expect to be offered communion?
family values
Well, I’d’ve thought he’d realize it wouldn’t make him look very pious.
Among other things, he almost certainly wasn’t able to muscle his way into a confessional, so he wasn’t eligible on those grounds either.
umm no, I’m not surprised at all but it is a chucklefest
hi Julia
Ya mean Rudy’s a hypocrite?
Hey there, Betsy. How you holding up?
That would be my guess ;)
Julia Julia Julia,
Don’t you know
IOKIYAR
My body’s in a lot of pain. But I’m here.
But – 9/11 changed everything!
Well, you know, nobody explained it to the Pope.
St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Burke is likely not amused. As the self-appointed* theological policeman of the Catholic Church in the US, he already weighed in on Rudy and communion last year.
The Pope had better not come to St. Louis, unless he’s ready to apologize for the egregious sin of not giving clearer directions to the priests distributing communion at that service, and letting Rudy slip in without a public scolding.
_____
* In a move of delightful come-uppance, let us note that Burke’s brother bishops refused to elect him to the “enforcer” position he was running for last year within the US Conference of Catholic Bishops. That had to hurt.
I have never understood organized religions. It’s something about having not been taught the secret handshake, I think.
wow
I’m sorry. Pain sucks.
Is the holiday going smoothly?
I guess by taking communion Rudy’s just following the WH line of creating his own “reality”. He always has worn his hypocrisy on his sleeve. *g*
I did not know that Giuliani was such a big fan of free buffets.
I love the quote from Bill Donahue. I just wish he would say that more often, about a lot of the other things he normally is asked about.
Yeah. Burke’s a piece of work.
I can’t help but wonder, though, if there was some connection to the endless battle between the modernizers and the classicists in the timing of the communion for the remarried issue coming up when it did. The current Pope has some strong ideas about politicians and choice, and Giuliani was the nominally Catholic frontrunner at the time.
Except for all the sitting on chairs, yes. Fortunately, tonight’s dinner is a lot closer to home, and the person pushing the wheelchair not a crazed and slightly drunk teenager LOOKING for pot holes.
Oh, he’s smorgas – bored. ;~D
Arghhh! Texteen did that to you?
TexBetsy;
I love your sense of humor, it matches your humanity.
Much appreciation.
Oh, he says that about Giuliani all the time. If you follow the link by his name, I’ve got a short list.
Hi Tex, je pense a toi.
You’d think an entire country saying no to him would have given him the tip that it’s possible
Just went a bit too fast.
Oh dear. Your teen and my tween should do lunch. That sounds like HM’s occasional misjudged attempt at humor.
The brain of a teen… The brain of Guliani… Same difference. ;-))
HM?
Thank you.
Well, let’s see now..the Church allowed him to annul his first marriage to his cousin on the grounds that he didn’t know she was his cousin(right). Rudy is the kind of person who has been able to find someone in the Church to be his fixer; he undoubtedly believes that the Pope’s rules don’t apply to him.
To be fair, I was in a lot of pain last night before we hit any of the pot holes.
the Vietcong are the new 9/11. Pass it on.
I don’t think much pierces the Rudith/Judith bubble. Both of them should be careful near open flames though. *g*
Her Majesty.
She’s kind of strongminded.
No, this is an in-house battle that has spilled out into the US political world. It’s another version of the convenient cudgel used against John Kerry — not over the issue of divorce but over abortion.
The broader argument is that by giving communion to people who publicly take stands and act in ways that are in opposition to church teachings, the church is shooting its own message in the foot. Thus, to give communion to a pro-choice politician is as bad as giving it to a divorced and remarried politician.*
The politicians using this argument beat Kerry with it, in an attempt to get the old-school Catholic democratic voters into the Bush column — but then discovered that it was Rudy’s biggest obstacle.
Karma’s a b*tch, right Rudy?
_____
* It’s kind of like an erstwhile Democratic Senator uncritically supporting Bush and the War in Iraq, telling rape victims that it’s only a short ride to the next hospital down the road if you need the morning after pill, promoting Joe Alito to SCOTUS, and endorsing the GOP candidate for president. Just an example off the top of my head.
Speaking as a New Yorker of italian heritage, let me tell you that I can guarantee you one of the zias would have noticed that both families were sitting on the same side of the aisle at the wedding.
My Eyes Rudy and Judith My Eyes warn a person first before showing pictures like that I have mirrored, polarized, tinted, prescription glasses for events like that.
What if I had eaten lunch first?
Who’s the schiksa?
I’m sorry, but believe me, the YouTube was worse.
Hell, there’s this one golf outfit she has…
Are you sure that divorced Catholics can’t have the bread and wine? Most people I know can barely afford the divorce much less annulment. Yet they still go to Church and the Priests know!
Between attempts at family counseling, Church Lady gossip, and police reports in the news they know when members of their flock have split up.
Or does the church have its own don’t ask don’t tell policy?
As someone who came from a town that was heavily Italian, I KNOW that everyone in the family would have known exactly what the relationships were between all of the cousins. Rudy was already dallying with Wife Number Two while he was working in D.C. He was looking for a convenient excuse to get out, found a compliant priest to do the dirty deed for him, and moved on to Wife Number Two. He’s cut out of the Newt/John McCain bolt of cloth, which is that marriage is convenient..until it stops being convenient and then it’s time to start singing, “Change Partners.”
Stop! Stop! with the describing your only making it worse pictures like that could turn a teenage boy off porn!
I think it is the remarriage that is the problem.
Well, that’s the US church, which is far more liberal than the Pope is. The thing is, he’s made it the goal of his papacy (and the job he held before) to rein in the US church and bring it back to (what he sees as) orthodoxy.
There’s a popular belief amongst Pope observers that he’d be willing to see membership in the Church plummet if the people who stayed were properly conservative.
Absolutely. They’re considered to be living in open adultery, but by entering into something called “marriage” that isn’t what the Church calls marriage, they’re scandalizing the faithful (ie, making them think this kind of thing isn’t written in stone), which is considered to be a step beyond simple adultery.
things at 45–allowed in the church, just not to take communion, unless you are not having ’relations’ in the biblical sense with current wife/partner as i understand it.
so, if you’re divorced and remarried with no annulment and you’re takin’ communion, means you aren’t gettin’ any, or you’re a plague-infested sewer rat.
Sounds like you got the scoop on new Pope gossip what are his plans and when does he plan to unleash them? Perhaps in time to influence a certain Presidential election?
Julia, excellent post, I have a question about the bread and wine of those who received it after Ghouliani, is it considered ‘unconsecrated’ at that point, for want of a better word…?
As you know, it very important to assign blame! They’re young, blame ‘em! I still want a placard suitable for display which reads “Old age and deceit shall always overcome youth and skill.”
There was one adorning the wall of the gentleman who hired me for my first professional employment, at the time, little did I suspect that it was actually Company policy…
Can’t help but think that the Giulianis, the Thompsons, and the Sarkozys should get together. And compare notes, what did you think I
I meant?
Look, RELIGION obviously matters to Rudi. I’m certain that TRUTH and JUSTICE matter equally to him.
Note: The preceding snark is snark and nothing but snark.
I AM trying to take this seriously. Ahem! (gasp! … I AM NOT LAUGHING, that’s the cat …)
Wait, wait, wait…
Remember, for conservatives and Republicans, Christianity is about judging and condemning OTHERS but about forgiveness for one’s own transgressions.
You get that formula, and you get the Repub Christian thing. Why else do you think that these same people who couldn’t get over one man’s consensual affair, so much so they abused the Constitution to go after him over it, always say, “I know my God has forgiven me” when caught with their own pants down?
Fambly Val-ewes? Only for the sheep amongst them. Remember, if a republican does it, it’s not wrong… it’s just forgiveable. If a Democrat does it, it’s either impeachable, treasonable, or criminal in that mundane “we’d execute you, so you should be happy with life in prison” kind of way.
Rudy taking communion? IOKIYARG (It’s OK If You Are Rudy Giuliani). Undoubtedly he made a biiiiig-ass donation to the Catholic Church to get’er done. A practice that’s been all the rage since, what the 12th century or something?
Let’s not even get started on Plenary Indulgence. (see Dogma for a discussion of that subject).
Kevin Smith rulz! LOL!
my money is on sewer rat
I catched a bit of the big mass on CNN. Benedict is no John-Paul…
I can report that my parents went to the priest for counseling still got a divorce, no annulment and they both kept having communion and they were not the only ones by a long shot.
I’m not Roman Catholic, so I don’t really know how this works.. logistically, how would the church prevent an adulterous divorcee from taking communion? Sure, the celebrant could cause a scene and refuse to offer the cup to sombody he knows by sight is on the black list, but presumably this is difficult at large services with multiple priests helping with communion.. also, what’s to prevent somebody from going to a different parish where he or she won’t be recognized? Or is it up to the sinner to self-police or risk his or her immortal soul?
Doesn’t the church have yentas (busybody old ladies) who keep track of this sort of thing?
YA know, Juno, for a Clinton partisan you are Okay.
You also happened to have nailed ‘it’, religious-reublikant-wise.
Now, I have to go put out the cat, he just won’t stop laughing …
My favorite take on organized religion is from the first part of “Zeitgeist the movie”. Pretty eyebrow raising. In fact the whole movie is cool. It’s on Youtube.
Giuliani is doing what thousands of Catholics do…don’t tell and just take communion…the priests don’t ask either. The thing is that Giuliani is a public figure, and the priests “do” probably know. Maybe he throws a lot of money at them.
Well, if you are catholic and a republican, you ask for forgiveness, and all is goooood. I don’t think personal responsability ever comes in play for those folks.
Officially, Julia nails the policy of the church. Officially, according to that same code of canon law, “A person who is to receive the Most Holy Eucharist is to abstain for at least one hour before holy communion from any food and drink, except for only water and medicine.” (919.1) A fair number of priests do not choose to enforce either prohibition.
In many cases, it’s not so much “don’t ask, don’t tell” as “you know and I know, but let’s not tell the bishop.” That’s kind of hard, though, when you’re as visible as Rudy and Judy.
No, no inside information.
Just the observation that since canon law doesn’t apply to non-catholics, he’s not required to discuss any appallingly bad marital behavior on the part of, say, presidential candidates, so I’m guessing he won’t.
I call my father’s cat, Buttercup, “Blub” and “Blubby.” She likes it.
To be clear: it’s not that you can’t be divorced and receive communion — it’s the remarriage part that’s the problem.
I suspect not. It would depend on the subjective factor on the part of the priest who gave it to him. If he says he assumed that Rudy wouldn’t have come up to the altar unless he was eligible, as I read the law he’s not in a state of sin over it.
hey! be nice to me! :) we may be the only two clinton supporters left here.. and I’m wavering.
I’d say that prohibition probably extends to little boys too, but it did not seem to stop them there either. The Catholic priesthood has felt entitled to be the way they are since the middle ages, when they were judge, jury and frequently executioners in their parishes, diocese and whatever organizational units they have.
It’ hard to give up that infalliable mindset, especially when you are never called on any of it.
I’m glad the post and you clarified this. I’ve always wondered. In the olden days…you were “excommunicated” from the church if you were divorced as far as I understood it, but maybe that was if you married outside of the church subsequently. It happened to my Irish Catholic grandmother in the early 1920’s, and it drove my family away from the church altogether.
Hey, Jo! Long time…
All the ripple is that he hasn’t been to church for a while. He certainly hasn’t been seen at his former parish, where the priest has said that he’d deny him communion.
I can’t quite figure out if this is an in-your-eye for the Pope or a play for ostentatious public piety or just flat-out cluelessness -
BTW, I wish there were a few more Clinton supporters here, because I would love for someone to explain the attraction. I don’t want to argue, I just want to understand it.
logistically, how would the church prevent an adulterous divorcee from taking communion? Sure, the celebrant could cause a scene and refuse to offer the cup to sombody he knows by sight is on the black list, but presumably this is difficult at large services with multiple priests helping with communion..
As to the first question church Ushers are also bouncers one lady went nuts at church and my Dad was so proud of his training (yes they get training) separate the person from the flock form a living wall between them and everyone else and if they don’t get physical wait for the police.
As to the second question Church Lady gossip travels far so the Church could enforce this Priests like to talk to new members find out where they live etc. Now you could lie to the priest but that defeats the purpose of going to church. Or you could drive real far away past your church ladies gossip and sit in the back and mumble when the Priest talks to you.
http://www.salon.com/news/feat…..=whitelist
monsignor placa–suspended from the church.
his friend since the age of 13, this guy makes giuliani look respectable,
helped hiim get an annulment then performed the ceremony for second marriage.
works for giuliani partners.
was also a member of a three-person diocesan team charged with fielding allegations of sexual abuse by priests. accused of sexual abuse. irony oh the irony.
got a whole file on these guys.
Mahalo, I was just wondering, basically, the individual is responsible for knowing whether they can receive communion or not then, eh?
ironically, his wife had substantial cause to insist on the dissolution of the marriage, so they could in fact be licitly divorced.
Not sure that would have gotten him off the hook, but without the remarriage he could have repented.
The x factor is that he also broke the prohibition on receiving communion without having given a good confession, and I’m reasonably certain he didn’t manage to brazen his way into one of those (and if he had, he wouldn’t have brought his wife).
I’m holding my nose, but Obama has turned me off even more.
I’m ruing Gore not getting in the race. I do think Clinton would be a good president, though. I think Obama would be in over his head.
Hi Julia… I have been a recalcitrant blogger… :( Not quite dark, but spending far to much time here at FDL for my own good, practicing for getting DemVet back up and running, for at least the election season. It’s been going for 6 years now.
Glad you’re front-paging here… all us “old timers” need to stick together, eh?
Oh, and you still rock and always have!
They try to avoid public scenes, but the recommendation I saw from a pro-denier suggested that the priest bless the person and ask them to see him privately after the mass.
I was praising your name.
So, you’re another blind Clinton partisan/worshiper who hates Obama, America, and the Democratic party, huh?
Sigh.
How many Clinton Supporters have we lost in your estimation. I was Richardson, then Edwards and yes I’m now for Obama. I worry that we may be screening you out and yes I’m as guilty as anybody.
What can we do or not do in your opinion about it?
what was the wife’s cause?
I was in a Catholic church a couple of years ago for midnight mass, and they said that anyone can walk up and take communion. So, I wonder if it actually falls on the person rather than the priest in this new age version of the church. They were pretty loose about rules. They don’t go around and monitor anybody. In small towns and villages in perhaps Italy or France, it would be much more obvious about who has or is doing whatever. The church is vastly different now than even 30 years ago. Vastly different…in this country.
Yeah, I know. Somebody asked last night in Thers’ post who started Pandagon, and I’m all damn, I was running around like Paul Revere telling people about the Noonan Tupac post…
OGs, the both of us.
I’m glad you’re coming back!
Your family is not alone. Not by a long shot.
In my first parish, a fair number of the folks who joined the parish seemed to have been driven there by the conservative Roman Catholic priest up the road. About half the weddings I performed were folks who were former Catholics who could not deal with his finger-wagging and smug self-righteousness. (Not just over divorce, but also contraception and the fact that some adults have consensual pre-marital sex.)
Right, and he probably would have made the case to cover his butt instead of really confessing his infidelity…..
Serial adulteries and causing a public scandal, I would think.
Rudy’s pretty recognizable, especially in NYC.
Exactly. The church has changed. Still though, I love many of the teachings…and I love the name Peter. It is my brother’s name. The rock.
Yep. Also, the Times published stories about the impact on his campaign of the Pope’s decision about remarriage.
And then there was the bringing his mistress to the St Patrick’s Day parade when he was still officially married to his wife. A few decades of lawsuits by gay groups who were shut out of the parade have established as a legal principle that the St Patrick’s Day parade is a religious observance.
It’s kind of blatant to make the Cardinal meet your mistress in public at a religious observance.
I don’t think anyone’s been screened out, but I think that we need to keep our minds open and remain very observant.. even at this point. I would be the first to admit that my candidate has her flaws, and they are big ones. I do, however, know a little about the type of political culture Senator Obama grew up in, in Illinois, and that club bothers me even more than the clubishness of the Clinton WH. He’s a compromiser, and I’m not sure that his instinct would not be to bargain away even more progressive principles than Senator Clinton would in an effort to hold together that great coalition of the center that he says he’s trying to build. Don’t get my wrong, I believe that either of them would make an acceptable president, but I’m not woo’ed by the promise of visionary leadership that so many attribute to him.
The thing is that the entire rationale of this papacy is reversing those changes.
I don’t think this would be much of an issue if it had happened at his local church (if he had one).
I’ve been out in the sun and thought I’d check in and landed on the Comedy Hour. Boy, am I poped out! The last time I saw him on TV he was in pain and agony listening to another Ave Maria badly sung. Give this man some pain killers so he can endure!
In Truth, prior to the Middle Ages, it was allowable for Catholic Priests to have multiple wives, and mistresses (concubines). The main reason celibacy was introduced by the First Lateran Council (1123 AD) was strictly financial. Could The Church, after all that wealth stealing from the Americas, still have finances as their main reason? And why pass the burden on to the Lay people. In the early days, the Church didn’t want priests to marry and accumulate wealth (only way to heaven was “cross my palm”) go to his heirs and away from The Church.
Here are some historical goodies of Church practices by a variety of popes:
Seventh Century, France: documents show that the majority of priest were married. Eighth Century, St. Boniface reported to the pope that in Germany almost no bishop or priest was celibate. Ninth Century, 836-Council of Aix-la-Chapelle: Admitted abortions and infanticide in convents/monasteries to cover up uncelibate clerics.
One of my all time favorites is: Pope Urban II had priests’ wives sold into slavery, children were abandoned. Twelfth Century.
I guess it’s about whatever mood a pope is in at a particular point in time.
Has anybody remarked on the sight of Cheney delivering the farewell speech to the Pope? Blood-chilling.
and the fact that some adults have consensual pre-marital sex.)
How long ago was that my Brother told me a funny story about a Drug Dealer an Cop and a Priest who sat at the same table at a bar in the burbs. Where I’m sure unmarried people go to get drunk enough to have sex.
Come to think of it last I heard our County led the state in alcohol consumption per person.
OGs indeed…LOL!
When you said that about the “Noonan channeling Tupac” post, I went over and looked for it. Jeanne’s archives are still up, and I found a link but the original Pandagon text is gone. :(
Maybe it’s down the “Memory Hole” or something, but Jesse’s work disappearing from the internet (if it has) is a tragedy. What a brilliant writer (and good guy).
Well, yeah, they are. It’s just that if they’re well-enough known not to be in a state of grace that the priest in giving them communion would seem to be endorsing their behavior, the scales tip to no.
hehe.. I’m not a NYKer, but I can honestly say that I wouldn’t recognize him in a street. In my mind, his face is conflated with that of the current mayor, Bloomberg, and the fired ex-governor (Spitzer) and the Republican ex-ex Governor (Pataki). They all kind of blend together in my mind for whatever reason…
I can only speak for my church back in Brasil but yes, yes, yes busybody women and men knew your business
My ex sat in the middle of our sanctuary with his future mrs and her kids before he gave me a Jewish divorce. 20 ft away from where I was sitting. And yet, he thinks that I am to blame for how the community feels about him.
You mean deregulate? It’s applied everywhere else.
I don’t care for this Pope for a variety of reasons. There have been rumors in the church itself that he was….how can I put it politely….the opposite of what he should be.
The Catholic Church (among a few others) needs to evolve (ducks for cover).
I used to listen to Father Malachi Martin before he died…he was pretty amazing.
http://www.starharbor.com/fr_martin/index1.html
Such as? Me I heard he was more conservative than th last Pope.
..or privatize.. why not, if the rethug moralists get their way… Blackwater’s rent-a-cop-division is available to do bouncer duty, I’m sure.
Father Martin said it better than I could ever say it…
Dick Cheney is the soul model for Tommy Udo.
They need to have a serious converstaion about birth control and some other things that basically equal female oppression. Not that the church is any stranger to that
ask and you shall receive.
Hey, campers: from back in the day when Joe and I threw that bone at the sky and it turned into the internets, Jesse Taylor responds to Peggy Noonan’s spectacularly repugnant column claiming to channel Paul Wellstone disapproving of his funeral (which was, mind you, run by his sons, who had also lost their mother) with a Peggy Noonan column channeling Tupac telling Peggy Noonan to, erm, dryhump a brown loafer.
Jo. Yeesh.
Never! Never! Never! At least for the past near 2,000 years. Sin is here because of women. Eve tempted Adam and for that women will never be forgiven. The heel of the male stays on our necks. Bad, bad girls! We need masters.
Ack. Did he give you trouble with a get? What an asshole.
Of course! But how many column inches is it worth to point out that
(1) Giuliani is yet another Great American Hypocrite, like the rest of the Rethugs.
(2) Catholicism is, well, …
hence why I don’t attend. I can’t stomach that crap
AND made me pay for half of it myself. And set next to HER in the middle of my synagogue.
and have active wombs to bring forth more sinners
Wow. And showed up afterwards.
Not that’s brazen.
As in idols.
There are allot of great bits of writing on the net a best of the Left Bloggers would be great although who and how to decide which pieces to put in would be an interesting problem.
Maybe a web site collection first then a book?
Glad to hear that they have standards in your community.
I’m confused. She wrote that in the WSJ, or you wrote it? My jaw is dragging on the ground….I was stupid…a little stupider than I am now…when that was written…having no clue as to who she was at the time…
Help me Rhonda, help, help me Rhonda?
When I was in college, I wrote a paper about the Creation. While doing the research, I thought I’d hit on something HUGE, that no one else had discovered. I called my father, who is an Episcopal minister and told him I had made an historic discovery!
There are two versions of the Creation in Genesis. In one, Adam and Eve are in the garden, and Eve tells Dumb-dumb to not eat the apple, reminds him that God had told them not to eat it. Dumb-dumb knows better, though, and bites into the darn thing.
In the second version, Eve isn’t even created yet when Dumb-dumb eats the apple!
I called my father and said, “How can she be blamed?!! In one, she DOES tell Stupid to not eat the apple but he doesn’t listen. In the other, she isn’t even created yet! Cripes! That is SO typical!”
My father said, “So you discovered it, huh?” and went on to explain that Eve was in fact in a “state of innocence” (prebirth) when the order came down to not eat the apple and therefore was off the hook. He didn’t explain the other one, though.
So I think it’s just more of the same: other people paying for the stupid white man.
The pain of child birth is because of this: YOU ARE TRYING TO SQUEEZE A BOWLING BALL THROUGH A TINY LITTLE HOLE!
Hello? It’s really not that complicated!
QuakerGirl are you sure that your not Catholic Girl?
Bless you, Julia.
That still cracks me up.
This makes me really mad. I hope some of the upstanding males in the community took him behind the woodshed to straighten his head (the one on top not between his legs – sounds like that’s the only one he uses).
Nah. She wrote a column in the WSJ speaking as (I am not making this up) dead Paul Wellstone talking about how offended he was by all the Republican-intolerance at his funeral.
Jesse, subsequently, skewered her like a squishy bug.
And their sister.
‘T’was much like Ann Coulter mocking Elizabeth Edwards over the death of her son.
But she was wearing a cross at the time, so I was sold on the good Christian thing.
Those Repubs sure are a moral, compassionate bunch, huh?
O/T : Well you all knew the bullshit was a coming…so I give you the new repug talking point.
McCain Hits Obama For Ayers Connection
What did we do before Google and Wikipedia? Some day I’d like to see that flick. (Just so long as it doesn’t remind me of the Pheasant Killer. On the other hand, I’ve always enjoyed watching Widmark at work.)
Nope. He is now legally and religiously married to her and has all rights and about half the respect of most men. He also earns a ton of money, has an able-bodied wife who doesn’t work, and has primary custody of my kid.
I wonder if she went to confession?
((((TexBetsy))))
People like that wouldn’t have a clue that they HAVE anything to confess.
thanks.
Time to mention the Keating Five. More than a passing acquaintance there, I’ll wager.
The other day, Scarecrow made the suggestion that folks need to think of what their candidate needs to do for reconciliation and not worry about what the other folks’ candidate needs to do.
Seems like a good idea to me.
Wow Bill Clinton just called me and invited me to a big election eve rally tomorrow night in Philly. Him, Hilliary and Chelsea will all be there.
Considering I live in NJ and the election is in PA, seems appropriate that I get invited.
That sucks have you considered blogging about it?
Throw this back in his face…maniac aggressive, angermangement, prick:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..24_pf.html
to what end?
Who, Pegs?
Who the hell knows. Once I read her anti-Huckabee column, “Ronald Reagan didn’t really like religion all that much so all this god stuff in politics is just tacky,” I’m not convinced she believes in anything.
From everything I’ve read, she believes in Peggy Noonan being one of the world’s chosen people, and she believes whatever else she has to believe to make that happen.
Nice.
There are definitely times it’d be comforting to really believe in hell.
Pope Benedict Ratzenberger is the same guy (as Cardinal) that raised hell about Kerry taking Communion (relevancy: 2004 presidential election). Cardinal Ratzo held private meetings with Neil Bush and they served on the same board of some Fascist/religious organization. Pope Benny’s answer to the Pedophile Debacle in the Church is prayer only – not purge and criminal prosecution.
Obama can handle McCain any day of the week. He can handle Giuliani, should he be VP nominee..with “both” hands tied behind his back. Obama is intelligent…the others…Not.
Hell no! I want him to get his in the here and now so I can watch!
I like that. It’s healthy :)
Way OT: From this morning’s LA Times by Margot Roosevelt:
Emphasis mine!
David E says Pope Benny has a boyfriend. He’s got pics.
We can both take a step toward the other at the same time. The GOP hopes we are divided we cannot afford to ignore this problem and hope it goes away.
However if the fighting keeps up things might get pushed to far for a reconciliation this situation reminds me of MAD Mutually Assured Destruction.
Really, Julia, I don’t want Texteen to believe the message he gets from their house that I am not worthy of his kindness and respect. Whole different issue.
Sounds like a “rummy”….in her lonely apartment sluggin’ down Jack Daniels or something…
Misappropriated thoughts. Stinkin’ thinkin’.
Talking/writing about painful stuff can be good therapy for some people.
LA Times is now a conservative paper…totally sucks.
Link?
Figures.
Maggot needs to move to The Maldive Islands and demonstrate to the world that Global Warming is a yuppie fad.
I was brought up in New Orleans and went to school there. Part of my schooling was in a Lutheran School and part at The Academy of the Holy Angels. Both in the Bywater. I had to study catechism and go to Novinas with my Mom and Aunt.
I harbored a deep dark secret in my quiet little heart. I didn’t like god. I though he was mean, hateful, violent and the world would be better off without him. I was in horror that he would let his son have such a painful death. Why did he require blood sacrifices.
For years I studied religion and the more I studied the more hideous it became. Clearly, to me, it was man-made. I feel in my heart their is a wonderful higher spirit. It feels femine to me. I embrace it and feel the warmth of its light. I meditate quietly.
Thus, I became a Quaker, by choice.
Yeah, been there from the other side (although it was both my parents in my case).
They(we) work it out, though.
That is definitely a popular theory.
That the Paper the Chicago Tribune bought ? The Chicago Trib had to go private to stay in business for some reason nobody wants to read their conservative slant news.
hey dakine–
tonight on masterpiece is movie about kipling and his son set during wwI
been looking for you today to tell you.
I was wondering where your insight came from.
It’s this kind of hubris and sense of immunity that is going to do Obama in. Be careful.
Ahmen!
dakine–on pbs in 10 minutes
OT: New John Adams tonight…PBS…I love the series myself…
Thanks! Although I will be mostly watching the Celtics win tonight. :})
TCU, Snarky and some other folks who “know” me read what I blog about. These kinds of issues are best written about for my eyes and a therapist’s, or a friend’s.
I know almost all of Richard Widmark’s films. As a preteen and throughout my teens I had a mad crush on him. It still is a long standing joke in the family. Evidently, I drove everyone crazy.
When he recently died, I felt like my beloved and only movie idol was gone from me forever. I just received a note from my sister with clippings from Richard Widmark’s time spent in New Orleans making Panic in the Streets. I sat through that movie so many times I knew every line. Don’t take a girl’s idol away. He will always be in my heart.
So there’s my true confession.
*pokes head out for a sec*
go hawks
I’m actually stunned to see the Grey Lady opining about this…
I think the potential for MAD was ‘Crow’s concern. For myself, my candidate dropped out early so I’ve just decided that I will vote for the candidate on the Democratic Party line in November 2008.
That is, I’m not too enthralled with either of the remaining Ds for multiple reasons for both.
HBO?
I’m jonesing for it to come out in DVD – we had to shut the cable off. HM was just a little too hynotized by it.
Time to go after Bill Donahue and call him on the right wing hypocrite that he is!!!
Another TV OT: if you have access to C-Span right now, Q&A has rightwing darling Richard Miniter on. I believe he shopped for his suit at the Barnum & Bailey outlet store for Big & Tall men. All he would need is big floppy shoes and pocketful of balloons and he’s ready to moonlight at kids’ birthday parties.
These ain’t ‘Nique’s Hawks…
Fighting global warming is the feel-good cause of the moment.
Emphasis mine!
So of course the MSM ignores the issue in the debates. I read something recently about Global Warming that despite being an issue that many voters think is real and a major concern its not getting hardly any mention in the debates.
I wonder if the press is ever going to admit that they slant coverage away from topics their advertisers don’t like.
The Adams series is available at Amazon.
woo hoo
No one should have to move to the Maldives! But then again, margot could be the new Dreyfuss, Massirah is a great place to do it. Nearest place to fly there is from Diego Garcia Intl Airport. (No amenities)
dakine, you have an interest in Kipling?
http://fablog.ehrensteinland.c…..-pope-guy/
Pope’s boyfriend is Georg
And, exactly why did the NYT feel the need to single out for special attention the two black people involved in the dispicable fiasco run by their many, many white colleagues?
Is the Pope going home today? Please? I am so tired of the news coverage.
Really? Barnes and Noble told me it wasn’t available before, like, June.
I try to shop with them, because they donate blue.
Grr.
You have to ask?
Not at all. He has handled everything flung at him so far with an amazing sense of calm. Everyone has things that occur in their lives as experiences that can be attacked. He has a great gift of both accepting that truth, and deflecting the blow.
McLame on the other hand…actually verbally insults and attacks people…including his “trollop c***” wife….how despicable is that?????
Obama has retained the steady hand. Aikido. Soft hand. Deflect the energy. He’s exhibiting something the others don’t have. He is everyman…white…black…American…International…JMHO
If Clinton is the nominee, I will vote for her for only one reason at this point. I was not afraid during the Clinton years, and I think McSame is unstable mentally. By voting Clinton it is a vote against the Republicans.
You are dreaming if you think the Hawks will win, the Celt’s won all three meetings this season all with double digit wins…! Dream on…! ;-)
the fucking feel-good issue of the fucking moment! Have they no fucking clue?
HBO
Sadly, they no longer do.
I was raised on his writings and still enjoy going back and re-reading much of his stuff, even with all the negatives associated with him.
Hey. Pumpkin time appears to be here.
As ever, thanks for stopping by.
Heh, good question! I’m more interested in Shrub/Darth/Addington’s roles myself…!
Yeah, but don’t you wanna give dakine01 just a small ration of grief?
Figures. I’m not at all surprised. Oh well.
Aloha, Julia!
thanks Julia
HBO…sorry…HBO…PBS was a “reflex”…sorry.
Not when I’m a Celtic fan…! ;-)
Umm, and I should care about whether Giuliani took the sacrament why?
If there is a LESS relevant issue in American politics today, I’ve yet to see it.
I don’t give a flying shit what anyone does in their personal life, as long as they don’t try to keep others form doing what they want in THEIR personal lives, as long as they’re consenting adults.
The RCC is about as relevant as Milli Vanilli. And just about as important.
His grandson, Kim Kipling, a friend of mine, teaches Philosophy at Radford University, in Virgina. I think you would find him a very interesting person.
just heard this on audiosyncracies-i’m on dial-up i hope i picked the right version. the star-studded one.
fits what we’re talkin’ bout
johnny cash-god’s gonna cut you down
about hypocrites
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQkFxfyHgMk
wow, now they’re playin’ die with my hammer in my hand……(john henry)
earlier played sister rosetta that’s all…..
didn’t say it earlier, but great post Julia
I just thought it was interesting that he’s been beating people around the ears with his catholicism (the Catholic League got started with his crusade against the Brooklyn Museum and art he considered religously suspect) and he chose to seriously dis the Pope in a very public way.
You have to remember, I’m a new yorker, so he’s been offending me much longer than he has most folks.
Thanks.
Night, C and Betsy and all.
Kipling on now.
Because, if so, his soul will burn in a deeper place in Hell. And, of course, you care about that. Don’t you?
I’d just run into him occasionally on late night TV, but he always struck me as a decent, honorable man with great range, and some repressed Scandinavian energy that enabled him to do battle on the same screen as the more flamboyant powerhouses of the day. So, yeah, I can see your point. Thanks for the answer.
Its also good to review the past and Rudy is soo past to try and determine the patterns that the future will take, and in Rudy’s case avoid them!
Talk about rude: Did I miss it, or did this Pope not say a word on Iraq? The biggest injustice going on in the World right now. He talked about peace and respect and dignity, but not a word about the atrocities going on in Iraq. Outrageous does not begin to express. He addressed the UN and not a word either! Talk about being complicit in the destruction of a Country and the killing of tens of thousands (perhaps hundreds of thousans) of people. Not hard to see why the Muslim World is so skeptical on this Pope after his previous comments and after his silence on Iraq.
Actually, he hasn’t been nearly as vocal as his predecessor (who was reputed to think Bush was the antichrist), but he’s spoken against the war a fair amount.
Yet mum’s the word on this trip even in front of UN?
Well, no, not really (and I should say at this point that I’m not a great fan of his, but fair is fair)
It hasn’t been a great focus of the US press, go figure. He did refuse a private meeting with Bush.
Julia,
I like that quotes of opposition are Annan’s, not Pope’s.
A WSJ article from 4/14/2008 starts with folowing quote: “The truth is the Holy See and the U.S. government are now on the same page on Iraq,” said George Weigel, a Catholic writer, theologian and biographer of the late Pope John Paul II.
I am not sure about who refused a private meeting with Bush (after all, Benedict XVI had a nice long meeting with Bush).
Julia,
Here’s Time Magazine’s take on speech at UN:
The Pope’s Quiet Case for the UN
So maybe he tried to bring it up, but wasn’t exactly outspoken or anything like it.
Personally, I’m convinced that he intervened on behalf of the Republicans in the last election, because of abortion, and all reports are that he was behind the decision of the Vatican to declare social justice, war and the death penalty as lesser issues than abortion, so I’m not really a great supporter, as I mentioned.
He did blow off Bush. Whether he would have done that if Bush had still been ascendant, I couldn’t say, but he did do it.
Yup I have heard of his ties to to whole US Conf. of Bishops fiasco about denying Kerry communion. To me he just looks way too cozy with Bush and Cheney.
Not at all, as I do not believe in the eternal soul.