So, David?

Well that’s just rude.

is anyone else seeing two posts posted at same time?

Well, isn’t that special? This may quite possibly be the worst education legislation since No Child Left Behind.

… the 404 I got on the “Well That’s Just Rude” linky on the previous thread, of course…

It’s the fluoride!

same here

malfunction at the junction

Cue the Malkinistas in 3, 2, 1 …

Interesting that the bill lists both democracy and capitalism as “American values,” despite the self-evident tension between the two.

I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

You can’t fight in here, this is the war room!

ZOSO

I would have thought that MECHA would be the least subject to such “race baced” critia…after all…who could be more racially diverse than Mestizo-Americanos. They come in black, white, Indian varieties and all mixes of those and sometimes even have a little Chinese thrown in.

The early Hispanic founders of Los Angeles were about half “black”, some of the ancestors of Hispanics were Jews fleeing the “reconquista” and inquistion.

Race? I don’t think so.

Now one might argue that the “German Club” is…or that a Mormon-study group was based on a church that was largely race-based? And if schools are going to start banning groups that are opposed to “religious tolerance”…that would mean ALL religious groups…since clearly all think they are “the best, most righteous, and correct”.

I would have thought that MECHA would be the least subject to such “race baced” critia…after all…who could be more racially diverse than Mestizo-Americanos. They come in black, white, Indian varieties and all mixes of those and sometimes even have a little Chinese thrown in.

The early Hispanic founders of Los Angeles were about half “black”, some of the ancestors of Hispanics were Jews fleeing the “reconquista” and inquistion.

Race? I don’t think so.

Shhhh. No finding fault with Arizona’s bigot legislation.

Interesting that the bill lists both democracy and capitalism as “American values,” despite the self-evident tension between the two.

Freedom of speech is okay…as long as you don’t talk about wealth. That’s “class warfare”!

The Hamsher hamsters got into the bong juice again.

Sorry about the screw-up … Julia’s due on at 4pm FDL time …

Freedom of speech is okay…as long as you don’t talk about wealth. That’s “class warfare”!

Isn’t it interesting how BushCo was willing to borrow from Marx when it suited their nefarious plans…?

Not the Cinco de Mayo parties! We’ve been busily making plans, here. Of course it involves a party, which explains a lot. It’s a big holiday, but not recognized officially, despite it happening to be when the area we now know as Texas was actually created.

Except for one problem: they all are “brown,” which to the Pearces of the world constitutes a race.

Recognized officially as being a Texas State Holiday, I mean…

Legislation brought to you by products of the Arizona public education system. Let’s ask McCain for his take on this.

They are wrong, in my opinion, but I do see the touchiness of this.
People want to play the Play Fair card, but don’t want to see that folks who have been mistreated as needing special treatment deserve their space.
That may be a very naive and ignorant statement, but it’s my first reaction.
Things have to play out. And, the white folks should let that happen. Maybe even encourage it.

I’m hopeless with multiple datelines.

the bill would bar public schools, community colleges and universities from allowing organizations to operate on campus if it is “based in whole or in part on race-based criteria,” a provision Rep. Russell Pearce, R

The potential exists to knock out The Spanish Clubs. French Club, too.

One suspects that the real target is hispanic organizations at Universities who are active in supporting democratic politics.

The potential exists to knock out The Spanish Clubs. French Club, too.

Now why should folks have to have Spanish or French Clubs. Ain’t English Club good enuf? /s

One suspects that the real target is hispanic organizations at Universities who are active in supporting democratic politics.

At the very least, somebody will think of that. African-American activist organizations, too, no doubt.

Exactly. Pure Rovian Genius. A Turblossom backdoor special.

The people who worry about whether teachers are communists or Mexican “sympathizers”, that children aren’t able to pray or conduct Bible studies, or are getting too much sex education make the folks opposed to flouridation seem like geniuses.

More than likely this legislation also has a few other purposes: allow the fundies to make a fuss over teaching intelligent design…With the Grand Canyon in this state, they want to teach that the earth is no more than 6,000 years old? Fat chance! I’m pretty sure they want to take a few pokes at Janet Napolitano when she vetoes any of this ludicrous stuff. I’m sure they’d do anything to get her off the platform of high esteem that the public, the voters, hold her in. The legislature in this state has always been awful, but hopefully that will change as time goes on and they continue to make asses of themselves as this legislation should do for them. There are a lot of strictly conservative people here, but there are also a lot of native Americans and Mexicans, so I think the state legislature should go way left; that way they’re sure to offend everybody and lose.

I’m astounded that such a transparent right-wing bill would endorse religious tolerance without making an exception for Muslims.

Interesting that the bill lists both democracy and capitalism as “American values,” despite the self-evident tension between the two.

I thought it was interesting that the bill lists both democracy and capitalism as “American values,” since I really don’t think this country has either anymore. It’s more like corporatism and dictatorship.

I thought it was interesting that the bill lists both democracy and capitalism as “American values,” since I really don’t think this country has either anymore. It’s more like corporatism and dictatorship.

You know that and I know that, but the propagandists don’t want anyone to know that.

Another section of the bill would bar public schools, community colleges and universities from allowing organizations to operate on campus if it is “based in whole or in part on race-based criteria,” a provision Rep. Russell Pearce, R-Mesa, said is aimed at MEChA, the Moviemiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan, a student group. The 9-6 vote by the Appropriations Committee sends the measure to the full House.

Since when is latino a race? meu deus, people are dumb as a sack of wet hammers. This bill is “based in whole or in part on race-based criteria..” namely brown folks (which is funny because latinos can be white, black, brown, yellow and mixtures of any and all of these)

Yep.

Recently, I can’t think of anything that has so thoroughly “denigated” capitalism as the bailout of Bear Stearns.

(We had to bail out BSC, but it was insulating people from the financial consequences of their actions.)

OT, most markets imho are in an oligarchical phase. True competition doesn’t exist where two or three suppliers dominate a market and dwarf whatever meager resources governments have to regulate them.

dissent…so dissenting, which used to be a symbol of patriotism is now a symbol of hating america? This is what happens when you let dumb asses breed.

Sorry about the screw-up … Julia’s due on at 4pm FDL time …

I tried to warn them on the prior post, David! Guess nobody was paying attention!

OT, most markets imho are in an oligarchical phase. True competition doesn’t exist where two or three suppliers dominate a market and dwarf whatever meager resources governments have to regulate them.

Agreed. It becomes a monopoly of collusion, no competition involved.

dissent…so dissenting, which used to be a symbol of patriotism is now a symbol of hating america? This is what happens when you let dumb asses breed.

This is nothing new for the right wing. They’ve always considered dissent untidy on its best day. Except when they’re dissenting, of course.

Another massive contradiction with the normal GOP propaganda meme is that the AZ legislature is imposing itself on LOCAL school districts.

Another massive contradiction with the normal GOP propaganda meme is that the AZ legislature is imposing itself on LOCAL school districts.

Hypocrisy is also nothing new for the right wing.

I’d love to see a court case on this.
Exactly what race is “brown” anyway?

The thing I find frustrating is that a few years ago I remember complaining that the legislature refuses to legislate anything. All they knew how to do was purpose putting everything on the ballot for the voters to decide. Then when the voters decided against what their wishes were in the legislature, they’d propose it again every year until they found the wording that gave them what they wanted. They did the same with medical marijuana. I was shocked when the voters of AZ actually approved medical marijuana, and although I’ve lost count, and I’m not sure what the law actually is any longer, they put the legislation through until they made it illegal, I thought. Not sure what it is now, as I said, but it was on our ballot at least 3 times in one form or another.

That would be not white.

At the very least, somebody will think of that. African-American activist organizations, too, no doubt.

That would be correct! I believe this state was one of the last, if not the last, to recognize MLK day.

I’d love to see a court case on this.
Exactly what race is “brown” anyway?

You know, “not white.” I know, I know, but it makes sense if you’re the kind of person who voluntarily associates with neo-Nazis.

It’s all about Precious.Bodily.Fluids. Now remember that, or you’ll have to answer to the Coca-Cola corporation.

You end up with a situation like Denver, where the Police and the District Attorney choose to simply ignore the will of the people and conduct their business as usual.

are there NO depths wingers will not sink to?

From Atrios’ simple answers to simple questions:

No.

Here is the link to the people’s will meaning nothing….

Oh,and hiya Margot! :)

are there NO depths wingers will not sink to?

After seven and a half years of BushCo, do you even need to ask?

The repubs never let the caddies into the clubhouse, let alone the greens keepers. It’s all about the POE don’t you know.

Col Bat Guano, 82nd or Pukin Buzzard?

Heya Jo, glad you got to meet up with Katymine.

I really appreciate all the comments decoding the “race card” that the AZ legislature is playing. I can still remember stories about my German grandparents complaining when their daughter married a “damn irishman.” When it’s about European Americans, it’s “ethnicity.” Once it crosses some magical, moving line, it’s “racial.”

I’m astounded that such a transparent right-wing bill would endorse religious tolerance without making an exception for Muslims.

Well, that’s not very funny! Even in a snarky way; this bill just wants to cram Fundie intelligent design theories into our kids minds. Next, they won’t be allowed to go to school unless they accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. I thought the state had moved passed the time when there was an Indian School for children who wanted to learn about Jesus, but maybe not! (Phoenix even has a major road named for the Indian School; the actual Indian School property is right next to our Veteran’s Hospital in the heart of town.)

The colonel’s still trying to get change from that Coke machine; Lionel’s been waiting on the phone for quite some time and the White House still refuses to accept collect calls.

Damn, 2nd ID, the Indian Head. How could I forget?

I’ve seen this applied to Hispanics, Arabs and others from the Middle East, and Indians (as in the ones who live in Asia). It seems such a catch-all that I can’t imagine describing them as a “race”. Then again, I’m from the old school that says words mean specific things.

Surprised they haven’t made them change their moniker, like all of the College teams.

dissent…so dissenting, which used to be a symbol of patriotism is now a symbol of hating america? This is what happens when you let dumb asses breed.

Sorry, me and my first husband were young! What can I say?

except that latino is not a race

*g* I don’t count you at all as a dumb ass

You end up with a situation like Denver, where the Police and the District Attorney choose to simply ignore the will of the people and conduct their business as usual.

Ah, you must mean kinda like our Sheriff Joe. Have you heard about him lately? He’s got his deputies out there terrorizing areas populated mostly with Mexicans, like the town of Guadalupe. The (Democratic) Mayor of Phoenix has actually complained to the DOJ to check out whether what he’s doing is within the law.

except that latino is not a race

No, it isn’t, but the right-wing bigots in the Arizona legislature think it is. Frightening as it is to think like a right-wing bigot, that’s what you have to do to make sense of this bill.

the mayor is accusing him of profiling, right?

Unfortunately, the ICE is backing up Sheriff Joe.

My argument is that their premise is false to begin with so their issue is not with latinos, it’s with people who are not anglo-americans

Here is the link to the people’s will meaning nothing….

Did you see where Barney Frank has proposed legislation to make marijuana legal?

I meant to write that their actual issue is with people who are not anglo-americans

‘American Values’ (has this term become one of those oxy-moroons?)

Bu$h Co, the msm, and the hangers-on of each would roll a drunk for a quarter.

Most of them would be happy to beggar the nation for a cool million, but not all of them.

Some would expect a billion for their efforts.

Now state politicians, especially them what’s ‘right’ with gospel, would be willing to do it for the quarter, a little publicity and whatever is left in the bottle.

Okay, Ann in AZ, I was going to ask you to ’splain all this but you’re probably pretty disgusted already.

On the other foot, the rest of us shouldn’t be jealous, ‘cuz anyday now … we could be facing the same problem.

In fact, we are …

‘Bout time to make it clear that ‘enough’ is too much, put religion in its proper place, take back the country, help the Iraqi people and behave like civilized beings.

I’m feelin’ optimistic, disgusted (what’s new?), but optimistic.

May reason and justice prevail!

If it doesn’t, maybe it’s time to kick … ?

This law doesn’t surprise me Arizona is full of Neanderthals, gun toting, meth smoking, right wing and corrupts politicians and 1970’s retro dopes. They can’t keep any of the arts funded because people are too busy buying Tuscan furniture from Robb and Suckey, and getting plastic surgery made of melted automobile parts. Honestly, this is a miserable place with Sheriff Arapaio, Symington, Rick Renzi, John Shadegg, JD Hayworth (out thank heaven). These people have lived and worked in an environment of corruption. They get payoffs from developers to buy land without water rights (or they are in cahoots with companies that pay off cities like Eloy to allow these land banking and developers to decide how these areas are going to be developed). If you want to live an unconscious life and swim, golf, hang out in bars, fawn over expensive cars, and go to the lingerie bowl - this place is for you. It’s all yours!

This is why Rove is beginning to sound the orchestra to sing “Obama Is A Socialist.”

This is the Republican GOTV strategy this year - not gay marriage, but anti-socialism under the guise of anti-immigrant referendums. Tie in socialized medicine and “cling to their religion” and you’ve got a perfect storm in November.

Healthcare is exactly why they’ve gone for anti-socialism anyway - it was Hillary’s strong suit, right? That’s the Rove strategy - twist the strong spot into a weakness. With all the controversies manufactured around Obama now, they can tie him into socialism (or outright Marxism - they’re already doing that) and bewail putting all those danged illegals onto the taxpayer healthcare dime.

Here it comes.

If the bill bans things that violate American Values, and free speech is an American Value, doesn’t the bill ban itself?

Um.. is this bill even remotely constitutional? lawyers?

Oh, and another dumb question… according to the authors of this bit of totalitarian shame, is torture an American value? And will high school Amnesty International chapters therefore be considered subversive? Enquiring minds would like to know.

Yes, and no doubt the Christofascist extremists behind this piece of ‘legislation’ accept Pat Robertson’s contention that Islam is not a religion in the first place, but rather a “political system”… remember that one?… and since any set of religious beliefs with which this bunch disagrees will just be redefined as a terroristic “political system” and since subversive politics will be banned, any non-millenialist religion will simply be likewise outlawed from our schools.

Back in the early 1970s, I graduated from Glendale Community College (Metropolitan Phoenix area). And while there, I was the president of the Mecha chapter. To wit, we coalesced our overall effort with Vietnam War Vets and the local affiliate of the organized labor, CWA, and while working in tandem, expanded the Maricopa County Community College District. Today, our efforts created the establishment of the Rio Salado College, South Mountain Community College, the colleges in Gilbert, Avodale, and in the uber-rich Paradise Valley. In addition, we laid the groundwork for the Arizona State University-West Campus.

And why?

Access to decent education, can play the American role for the ‘great-equalizer’ given that the Republicans torpedoed the military draft. Sadly, in this regard, our fellow Democrats provided considerable aid and comfort to the Republicans in this demise of the ‘draft’.

Thus, a small version of history that will never make it into today’s history books. Such is life!