Less than 24 hours after Moqtada Al Sadr issued his final warning that “open war” will be the result of continued attacks on the people of Iraq and that occupation without end will not be tolerated, Condi Rice flew into Baghdad for a little rendezvous in the Green Zone. And like her bully boss, George, she substituted taunts for efforts to bring the bloodshed to an end:
"He is still living in Iran. I guess it's all out war for anybody but him," Rice said of Sadr, who has not appeared in public in Iraq in nearly a year.
"His followers can go to their death and he will still be in Iran," she told reporters traveling with her on a trip to Baghdad.
Hmmm … am I missing something here? Aside from the fact that it is only the U.S. military that keeps claiming al Sadr is always in Iran, I had not noticed the redeployment of the Bush White House and State Department to the streets of Iraq. Occasional drop-ins at the Green Zone, less occasional speed tours of locations outside the GZ (complete with air cover and hundreds of military escorts), sure, but … when did George and Condi move to Baghdad?
Oh, I forgot, Condi’s been very busy choreographing torture sessions with the rest of George’s team -- and I’m sure she didn’t want to dirty her new boots actually checking out how Iraqis are living these days.
While Condi was flying out of Iraq -- how long was that visit anyway? -- U.S. forces continued construction of a wall cutting off the residents of Sadr City -- a wall which the Iraqi government had promised would not be built, a wall designed to separate the residents of Sadr City into virtual “gulags.”
Following the “unmitigated disaster” of Maliki/Hakim/Cheney’s attempt to wipe out Sadr’s power in the south, and their continued breaking of the truce and siege that cut off Sadr City residents from food, water and medical care, it is not surprising that Al Sadr has -- as Badger notes -- said “Enough!”
And look, what is the sin of the followers of Al Sadr that they should emerge from the oppression of the destroyer [Saddam] to fall, thereafter, under the oppression of the occupation, and of the government and the nawasib, and the great and the pulpits and the rumors and the assassinations and the policies that have come to us from beyond the borders, and the silence of the religious powers, and of the political powers, domestic and foreign and international? The beloved Gaza was blockaded and everyone was silent, and [likewise] now the city [Sadr City] is blockaded and everyone is silent, and where now are human rights, and [the rule of] laws, which they wish to impose for the sake of their spurious "freedom and democracy"?
Is their sin resistance which is the honor and strength of this world and the next, because the people have not and will not compromise their right to resist the occupier of any nationality. And we will announce, if they do not come to their senses, war until liberation and by God the blood of martyrs for liberation is in our veins, and it will be received by God with the best acceptance.
Or is their sin that they are the popular base which has not accepted your politics and your ugly worldly fighting, because they do not accept the partition of Iraq, nor do they accept the theft of its wealth, or any long-term agreement that favors the occupier more than it favors Iraqis, or leaving camps or fixed bases for the occupier...
(snip)
And therefore I direct this last warning and last word to the government of Iraq: Either it comes to its senses, takes the path of peace and renounces violence against its people, or else it will be like the government of the destroyer [Saddam], and even if everyone has allied with them [the present government], earlier they were allies of ours, and they could be [allies of ours] again...If [the government] does not come to its senses and sweep away its recalcitrance, and that of the militias that are part of it, then we will declare open war until liberation.
(snip)
And I criticize the silence of those of them who merely listen, and look--desiring from them and from the government of Iraq that they should demand from the occupier a schedule for its withdrawal at the earliest possible time.
Meanwhile, U.S. media attempts to reassure us that this warning is no big deal - repeating Rice's absurd claims that "the campaign [against Sadr] has brought sectarian and ethnic groups together in an unprecedented way" and
That broad support -- especially from the Iranians -- may have accounted for the ease with which Iraqi soldiers entered the last Mahdi Army stronghold in Basra this weekend.
Apparently, neither Rice nor the media understand the lessons of Vietnam or any other indigenous nationalist uprising we've seen over the past decades. Or as markfromireland reminded me, Mao said:
“The enemy advances, we retreat; the enemy camps, we harass; the enemy tires, we attack; the enemy retreats, we pursue”
As we watch what happens next in Iraq, I hope we will not merely “listen and look” but also join in the “demand” for “a schedule of [our] withdrawal at the earliest possible time.”
Update: Cernig at Newshoggers and Brandon Friedman at VetVoice have some more thoughts on Condi's "diplomatic skills" and Brandon has a link to an NYT report that Condi said of Sadr: ""I don't know whether to take him seriously or not." No wonder she got out of Baghdad so fast.
Login Here
Share This
Spotlight
Why does the person who was national security advisor leading up to and on 9/11 and Secretary of State during the worse decline in US status and reputation in its history still have a job?
Anyone?
(Crickets)
Siun!
deuce
Because no one could have predicted…
Siun, your contemptuous sarcasm is an inspiration to us all.
Vietnam. Worse than. Maybe not. Dumber than. That’s it. A quagmire’s a quagmire’s a quagmire.
Siun, Juan Cole wrote an excellent post on McInsane and AQI today…
She could have been a pianist. Wouldn’t that have been more peaceful for everybody?
’cause she’s a loyal courtier in a court of jesters, and she knows how to please the boy emperor.
Funny how the Iranians are the source of all the problems except when they’re helping our friends. And the last time they said that Moqtada was “hiding in Iran”, he led the Friday prayers in Najaf the same day.
Yeah but her shoes are fab. power shoes, I think they are called (/snark)
Unfortunately, no one in the mainstream media realizes or cares that McCain is just making shit up.
By our very conservative count we make 87 Iraqis Killed, 63 Wounded of which by 8 am this morning Baghdad time 8 were killed and 22 wounded in American airstrikes on Sadr city during Saturday night and around dawn.
“
HeBush is still living inIranWashington. I guess it’s all out war for anybody buthim, Bush” Rice said ofSadrGW, who has not appeared in public in Iraq in nearly a year.“His
followerssoldiers can go to their death and he will still be inIranD.C.,” she told reporters traveling with her on a trip to Baghdad.Now that sounds more accurate.
Condi might not know whether or not to take Sadr seriously but I’d wager Sadr knows whether to take Condi seriously.
And I’d wager the answer is NOT!
Evening all … please make sure to watch the videos at several of the links.
Condi was shopping for shoes while New Orleans was drowning wasn’t she?
talk about irony, just change the names of the key players and therin lies the truth
on my way now
Very good ! Clap, clap.
Think they ever will between now and November? I’m not holding my breath.
Siun, you think Sadr is in Iran? Didn’t we have an arrest warrant out for him when our Provisional Occupying Authority (or whatever Bremer was)was running te show?
They’re bound and determined to take out the Mehdi Army in time for the October elections , eh?
Thanks Siun.
I must go and spend the rest of the evening with 6 pounder, Molly and snuggle and watch some TV. Good night all!
Actually does anyone give a flying fuck what kindofsleazy says or does come to that? The green zone underwent some fairly heavy shelling today as well.
Good one.
Condi seems to be doing a fine job making his points for him.
Lots of luck with that ….
Why shouldn’t she? In BushCo terms, she’s actually a moderate. She and Colin Powell were trying to rein in people like John Bolton, and Powell eventually gave up and bailed.
And of course, the news media still backs the war, so they don’t care.
Maliki and Betrayus seem to think it’ll work…!
Wait! Condi, just like the rest of her crowd has been forcibly restrained from leading the troops into battle! it is not of desire, there is nothing that any member of the Administration would like to do more than set an example for the American people by
butcheringvaliantly leading our brave troops into harms way. As the Decider himself has so magnanimously declared, “It would be kind of romantic!” It is a shame that, at this point in their lives, they cannot recapture that chance for glory which they squandered in their youth, opting for deferments and “Other priorities” instead.It must be true-opportunity knocks but once…
markfromireland - thank you for joining us. I know your time is tight … and needed elsewhere.
The news from the ground is way more important than any Condi nonsense.
The odd thing is during the Basra Maliki fiasco, reports of Sadr were suggesting he was issuing orders and negotiating from Syria.. A couple of weeks later, suddenly, he’s in Iran, always has been. I picked up on Senator Mark “Lieberlovin’” Pryor working the Sadr Iran angle during Petraeus hearings.
SO I went over to Gorillaa Guides and asked, they said it was certainly possible but unlikely anyone knew with certainty.
If they try that, Steve Gilliard’s prediction will come to pass sooner, rather than later.
The prediction? That Moqtada al-Sadr will be drinking coffee at the Balad Starbucks before this is all over. The superbases will be overrun in short order.
I was watching ‘Life After Film School’ (or something like that) this afteroon during Cat Visitation, and the director the students were interviewing had a story about getting equipment through customs in Egypt: after a couple of weeks of equipment on hold, the customs officer asked the production person what he thought about Bush. The answer was ‘I think he made a mistake in Iraq.’ The equipment was released.
We need to get out of Iraq ASAP, not ‘when we [think] we’ve won’.
Actually, he probably does take her somewhat seriously in the fashion of how you’d take seriously a six year old with an automatic weapon with a very loose trigger just because of the damage that can be done.
Speaking of GG, how do I get the english translation, I’ve tried numerous ways but, all I get is the Arabic…?
You don’t we’re now getting around 125,000 visitors per day (not including feed readers) of whom somewhat less than 2% are from English speaking countries. The Iraki contingent decided as a matter of principle to continue with some English language material but for obvious reasons they concentrate on our target audience.
Sorry OT
NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. drivers are paying record prices to fill their gas tanks and they could see prices surge as much as 30 cents more per gallon over the next few weeks, according to an industry analyst.
Fill up your cars with gas now its the end of cheap oil Pocalpse!
Condi has accomplished absolutely nothing of value in seven years- perfectly matching the track record of the “look at mah great economy” record of the flim flam man himself….
They are all relieved that they have only nine more months to keep from losing their war in Iraq- confident that the war bubble will burst on someone else’s watch, enabling them to say “I told you so” from safety.
Can you believe that did this Pope not say a word on Iraq? The biggest injustice going on in the World right now. He talked about peace and respect and dignity, but not a word about the atrocities going on in Iraq. Outrageous does not begin to express. Talk about being complicit in the destruction of a Country and the killing of tens of thousands (perhaps hundreds of thousans) of people. Not hard to see why the Muslim World is so skeptical on this Pope after his previous comments and after his silence on Iraq.
understood.
thank you for all you do, mfi.
What I don’t understand is how Iranian (al Hakim, Maliki etc. and Sadr interests are diametrically opposed, except on some religious grounds.. yet they would give him sanctuary while fighting his forces?
I swear these idjits are genetically programmed to be completely self unaware.
They lack a key mineral in their diet, irony.
Aah, that hugs! Understandable tho….! BTW, could you give me some links to Maliki’s lack of popular support in Irak, please! I’m posting at M&C, trying to fill Lurch’s shoes… Clicking on my name will get you there…!
It certainly appears that the political situation in Iraq is getting worse, not better. If Sadr has a big victory in the coming regional elections it could further destabalize the current half assed government leading, one would suppose, to increased chaos….
They’re also opposed on the type of Islamic state they want.
Yes, so why would Iran allow Sadr refuge? I understand if Sadr wants to achieve Ayatollah status, he must study in Iran.. is that enough to keep him welcome and alive in Iran despite all other differences?
Only if you’re an American or an Iraki who supports the occupation. The majority of the population of the country have a different definition than you of the word “worse” and it’s way past time you admitted that very basic fact.
I wouldn’t say it would lead to increased chaos if the SCIRI or Dawa parties are supplanted by the Sadrists, I’d actually argue the opposite… Maybe Mark could shed a ray of light on it!
Amen.
OK–I admit it. Now what?
i don’t know if this is true, hopefully siun or mfi will correct me - but the only thing i’ve heard that made some sense was from wayne white. who, if i understood correctly, seems to think that the iranians see that sadr has actual support from the people (unlike their allies the puppet gov) and that they know they will have to deal with him when we leave. so they are supporting more than one side.
Get to fuck out of the country it’s you and your quisling government creating the instability so get to fuck out - and let them clear up the mess that your country has created.
Pretty much Selise they’re not exactly friendly but don’t want him as an enemy.
How is it any different that Al-Sadr is not in the country and has surrogates doing his fighting for him than what our leaders are doing? I haven’t seen George and Dick suiting up and jumping in a tank to get into the fight, either. Oh, wait….I did see George play dress-up in his pilot outfit when he did his Mission Accomplished bit.
Does the woman even note the irony of what she’saying?
Heh, a minor correction, Mark; Get the fuck out! Not; get to fuck out! ;-)
oh, for leaders so wise as to be able to think this way about the world.
Defend … I edited for length but Al Sadr included the following in his statement:
Easier said than done apparently.
seventy percent of the citizens of this country want exactly that, for us to get the fuck out of that country.
The government is ignoring the will of the people, the opposition party hasn’t got the fucking balls to impeach the warmongering bastards and at this point we are going to have to elect some that do.
Sadr will not lose. “Worse”? Not from the perspective of the Iraki people.
This is not about America, it is not about us.
We must deal with our own inhumanity. We are crimminal killers.
The Iraki people want America to stop.
And they have every right to expect US to do whatever is necessary.
We are NOT doing enough, let us take no comfort in saying we are helpless and ‘unable’ to do ‘anything’.
And, let’s not keep being blind. Let us see the truth
Let’s stop talking and listen, that we might hear the truth.
Well I am a little relieved that someone noticed. I am just amazed at the fact that not one news outlet is mentioning this.
I am always surprised at the amount of attention to “where is Al Sadr?” as if the idea that he is occasionally or even often in Iran = he is backed by Iran when all evidence is otherwise. We know that he leads the largest popular opposition to the occupation and that we - unlike Iraqi Sadr - have no right to be there at all.
You stick to your dialect and I’ll stick to mine :-)
Less than 24 hours after Moqtada Al Sadr issued his final warning that “open war” will be the result of continued attacks on the people of Iraq and that occupation without end will not be tolerated, Condi Rice flew into Baghdad for a little rendezvous in the Green Zone. And like her bully boss, George, she substituted taunts for efforts to bring the bloodshed to an end:
Sounds to me like she wants a war. She never does anything that is not official Bushie policy, so Bush must want a hot shooting war too just in time for elections.
I’m betting they will use the we can’t leave because there’s shooting going on argument. Never mind that they were the ones pushing it, has Condi ever tried Diplomacy?
my apologies for just catching up on the earlier comments. this is so horrendous - mfi, can you tell us more?
markfromireland - we often on Sunday nights talk about the daily conditions in Iraq and I’m wondering if you have any info that you would or could share about what’s happening to people day to day?
hackworth at 8-”She could have been a pianist. Wouldn’t that have been more peaceful for everybody?”
she still is, that’s what gets me sometimes, she is an artist, has had to go to deep places to do her art.
how could she have such ugliness coexist with that.
i came up with the obvious answer one day, the same thing i say about some artists–
they aren’t an artist, they are a fine technician, way different thing, way different part of the brain. different amount of investment in what they create…usually technicians dismiss/negate the creative gifts of artists.
technicians have a disassociative side, cold, removed. empathy not usually a part of their make-up. sociopathic.
so, after that, i dismissed her being a pianist, she’s a technician. how she is made more sense after that.
=========
siun, i hope you don’t mind me posting this-i posted it at the end of the last thread cuz it applied, but when i heard it today, i thought of you and gg’s…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQkFxfyHgMk
jc song god’s gonna cut you down.
i like to think of it as johnny cash’s last f^ck you about the war and other things to george bush.
long list of people in the video who oppose the war.
=======
take care
And we do not forget in our tribulation–in fact we are a tribe that favors them even in our penury–the Iraqi minorities, because we have defended the Christians, and the Shabak and the Turkman and the Chaldeans and others, and we still do. And what has been our reward for that except attacks on our Messenger, and the Pope going to visit the biggest country occupying our Iraq, forgetting the oppression that the Iraqi people face–both the majority and the minority. And forgetful likewise of the suffering of the people from poverty and want and lack of basic services and security and in other ways.
reply Is Sader really defending minorities? Sounds like he might be the guy to run Iraq if this is true? But Bush does want more war so of course he hates this guy.
Well as we’ve repeatedly said on “Gorilla’s Guides” what it’ll take is a nice little catastrophe to get them out. Your oh so brilliant commanders on the spot seem to be arranging that nicely:
In Basra, the Mehdi Army has been able to hold off the Iraqi army in gun battles but has then retreated. But there is no sign so far of the militia being eliminated and it could probably launch devastating counter attacks in the slum districts where its supporters live.
Mr Sadr called a six-month ceasefire last August, renewed it in February and called his militiamen off the streets when they seemed to be winning during fighting at the end of March.
Many of his militiamen are impatient to renew their battle with the Iraqi army and the Americans. In Sadr City, one Mehdi Army commander said on Saturday night that he was “thrilled” by Mr Sadr’s threat to go back to war. “We will wait until tomorrow to see the response of the government,” he said. “Otherwise they will see black days like they have never seen before in their life.”
The US has long encouraged the Iraqi government to crush the Sadrists but seems to have been caught by surprise by current events in which the US finds itself fighting a war on two fronts: one against the Sunni Arabs, which it has waged since 2003, and now a second, which is just beginning, against the Shia
Source: Sadr threatens ‘open war’ as Iraqi army attacks base - Middle East, World - The Independent
Oh yes - I personally know 5 Christian families who fled to Sadr city. There’s a small but but by no means insignificant Sunni community it Sadr city, a somewhat larger one in al-Shula, ditto for al-Sadriyah, al-Zuhair in Basrah has about 50/50 and it’s the Sunnis who are fervrently pro-Sadrist.
I’d be happy to get the fuck out- but I’m not there.
salutations markfromireland, good to see you here….
and the uss lincoln is headed for the persian gulf , more than 2 months before the uss truman (already there) is scheduled to be rotated home (after a 6 month deployment to the persian gulf). last report on the location of the uss lincoln was apr 11-14 in the south china sea.
(and as a reminder for those who haven’t read my prior posts - admiral “not on my watch” fallon announced his resignation on march 11. the uss lincoln was departed for the persian gulf deployment on the march 13.
I’d noticed the press was crowing that they’d just taken the HQ in Basra of the Mehdi Army, and, I thought to myself that they’d merely melted away and are regrouping elsewhere… And, further along, I’d seen several reports that the Sadrists are just itching to pull the trigger, but, are heeding Sadr’s cease fire so far…!
I can not just now deal with any more of the obscenities perpetrated by Bushco, so I resort to snark.
Please note that apparently Dearest Condi is not wearing a flag pin in her lapel. Why does she hate America?
Sorry. Rhetorical question.
Very little food. The electricity situation is a disaster. The water situation is worse than it was even 3 months ago and as we reported in this posting وزارة صحة كردستان تحذر من احتمال عودة الكوليرا الى الاقليم وتطلب العون المالي on 16th April 2008, 12:16 am the cholera breakout is expected to start again within the next few weeks. Corpse findings are up and we’re frantically triyng to evacuate some of our childrens homes before that death squad in uniform known as the US armed forces in IRak turn the inhabitants into collateral damage.
Only your proxies …
rw, this is being done in our name.
You and I may not ‘be’ there but we are stuck ‘there’, don’t you get it?
This is NOT about semantic evasion, inspite of semantic evasion …
Like all the Bush Foxes, she guarding the hen house to make sure none of the minions do their real job.
So do you think he would be a good leader for all Iraqi’s cause Maliki and the rest have not shown me anything. At some point we will have to leave Iraq who would you choose to run the place?
i choose that we don’t get to choose.
iraq belongs to iraqis. they will know better than any of us.
Neither my opinion nor yours nor that of anyone else here is relevant to that. It’s up to the Irakis. I will say that he’s the only political leader there who has built cross community coalitions and keeps his agreements.
selise and mark have got it.
No RWC has very carefully avoided getting it from the outset - he and I have had this discussion about weasel words before I suggest you not waste your time.
All we need to do is make our leaders choose to leave.
Didn’t I read earlier this week Murtha and company want to fund the war now through spring ‘09?
Since we seem to be missing Laura Doty tonight, then I will add that donations to the Red Crescent are desperately needed and can be made here - just select Iraq from the dropdown list.
The link under “how the Iraqis are living” is to a video I could not completely source but it is footage of the children who live at the garbage dump in Sadr City … these are the people who die in our airstrikes.
Agreed but Sader gets points from me for trying to protect minorities that does not sound like the actions of a religious nut looking for war.
Well not the actions of an American religious nut. Condi always talks about her church getting bombed and those girls getting killed.
Has she heard about how Sader is treating minorities?
all awful news, all the time and it is all our fault.
Al Sadr’s words make much sense to me. It’s shameful that so few in America will read them, or even if they do, comprehend them and the pain therein.
(hi MFI — grateful you are here.)
Yes … Murtha thinks it would be good to get the money out of the way … and Rahm, Bayh and buddies think “the Iraqis need more skin in the game”
Spare me the lecture please. I’ve been against this fuckin war from the beginning and I’m against it now.. I’ve worked politically to end it. I admit that I don’t understand much about the situation between the various groups but I am willing to do what I can to end it.
markfromireland … I know a lot has to be left unsaid for everyone’s security but is there any word on how Mohammed is doing? his words have inspired many of us
Sickening!
Well my friend, as I hope you are, we have to do a hell of a lot more, don’t you think?
Siun, the sarcasm or mockery is just the right note in this case.
thank you DWB … good words and thoughts
I’m back for a week to get some legal stuff wound up as the arrival of some grandchildren means I have some trusts that need setting up. That + a two day thingy in hopsital (getting old) then back to Irak.
How have you been keeping?
thanks … I am not snark gifted but that quote just smacked me when I was reading the news this morning
Maybe Rahm, Bayh, and buddies should go on Iraq tour until all US troops have left to put their “skin in the game.”
yes.. i think it’s likely they’ve been bullshitting us along - in order to get our support in each election cycle.
i think you know this better than i, but wanted to through in a link for folks who had not heard.