Less than 24 hours after Moqtada Al Sadr issued his final warning that “open war” will be the result of continued attacks on the people of Iraq and that occupation without end will not be tolerated, Condi Rice flew into Baghdad for a little rendezvous in the Green Zone. And like her bully boss, George, she substituted taunts for efforts to bring the bloodshed to an end:
"He is still living in Iran. I guess it’s all out war for anybody but him," Rice said of Sadr, who has not appeared in public in Iraq in nearly a year.
"His followers can go to their death and he will still be in Iran," she told reporters traveling with her on a trip to Baghdad.
Hmmm … am I missing something here? Aside from the fact that it is only the U.S. military that keeps claiming al Sadr is always in Iran, I had not noticed the redeployment of the Bush White House and State Department to the streets of Iraq. Occasional drop-ins at the Green Zone, less occasional speed tours of locations outside the GZ (complete with air cover and hundreds of military escorts), sure, but … when did George and Condi move to Baghdad?
Oh, I forgot, Condi’s been very busy choreographing torture sessions with the rest of George’s team — and I’m sure she didn’t want to dirty her new boots actually checking out how Iraqis are living these days.
While Condi was flying out of Iraq — how long was that visit anyway? — U.S. forces continued construction of a wall cutting off the residents of Sadr City — a wall which the Iraqi government had promised would not be built, a wall designed to separate the residents of Sadr City into virtual “gulags.”
Following the “unmitigated disaster” of Maliki/Hakim/Cheney’s attempt to wipe out Sadr’s power in the south, and their continued breaking of the truce and siege that cut off Sadr City residents from food, water and medical care, it is not surprising that Al Sadr has — as Badger notes — said “Enough!”
And look, what is the sin of the followers of Al Sadr that they should emerge from the oppression of the destroyer [Saddam] to fall, thereafter, under the oppression of the occupation, and of the government and the nawasib, and the great and the pulpits and the rumors and the assassinations and the policies that have come to us from beyond the borders, and the silence of the religious powers, and of the political powers, domestic and foreign and international? The beloved Gaza was blockaded and everyone was silent, and [likewise] now the city [Sadr City] is blockaded and everyone is silent, and where now are human rights, and [the rule of] laws, which they wish to impose for the sake of their spurious "freedom and democracy"?
Is their sin resistance which is the honor and strength of this world and the next, because the people have not and will not compromise their right to resist the occupier of any nationality. And we will announce, if they do not come to their senses, war until liberation and by God the blood of martyrs for liberation is in our veins, and it will be received by God with the best acceptance.
Or is their sin that they are the popular base which has not accepted your politics and your ugly worldly fighting, because they do not accept the partition of Iraq, nor do they accept the theft of its wealth, or any long-term agreement that favors the occupier more than it favors Iraqis, or leaving camps or fixed bases for the occupier…
(snip)
And therefore I direct this last warning and last word to the government of Iraq: Either it comes to its senses, takes the path of peace and renounces violence against its people, or else it will be like the government of the destroyer [Saddam], and even if everyone has allied with them [the present government], earlier they were allies of ours, and they could be [allies of ours] again…If [the government] does not come to its senses and sweep away its recalcitrance, and that of the militias that are part of it, then we will declare open war until liberation.
(snip)
And I criticize the silence of those of them who merely listen, and look–desiring from them and from the government of Iraq that they should demand from the occupier a schedule for its withdrawal at the earliest possible time.
Meanwhile, U.S. media attempts to reassure us that this warning is no big deal – repeating Rice’s absurd claims that "the campaign [against Sadr] has brought sectarian and ethnic groups together in an unprecedented way" and
That broad support — especially from the Iranians — may have accounted for the ease with which Iraqi soldiers entered the last Mahdi Army stronghold in Basra this weekend.
Apparently, neither Rice nor the media understand the lessons of Vietnam or any other indigenous nationalist uprising we’ve seen over the past decades. Or as markfromireland reminded me, Mao said:
“The enemy advances, we retreat; the enemy camps, we harass; the enemy tires, we attack; the enemy retreats, we pursue”
As we watch what happens next in Iraq, I hope we will not merely “listen and look” but also join in the “demand” for “a schedule of [our] withdrawal at the earliest possible time.”
Update: Cernig at Newshoggers and Brandon Friedman at VetVoice have some more thoughts on Condi’s "diplomatic skills" and Brandon has a link to an NYT report that Condi said of Sadr: ""I don’t know whether to take him seriously or not." No wonder she got out of Baghdad so fast.



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Why does the person who was national security advisor leading up to and on 9/11 and Secretary of State during the worse decline in US status and reputation in its history still have a job?
Anyone?
(Crickets)
Siun!
deuce
Because no one could have predicted…
Siun, your contemptuous sarcasm is an inspiration to us all.
Vietnam. Worse than. Maybe not. Dumber than. That’s it. A quagmire’s a quagmire’s a quagmire.
Siun, Juan Cole wrote an excellent post on McInsane and AQI today…
She could have been a pianist. Wouldn’t that have been more peaceful for everybody?
’cause she’s a loyal courtier in a court of jesters, and she knows how to please the boy emperor.
Funny how the Iranians are the source of all the problems except when they’re helping our friends. And the last time they said that Moqtada was “hiding in Iran”, he led the Friday prayers in Najaf the same day.
Yeah but her shoes are fab. power shoes, I think they are called (/snark)
Unfortunately, no one in the mainstream media realizes or cares that McCain is just making shit up.
By our very conservative count we make 87 Iraqis Killed, 63 Wounded of which by 8 am this morning Baghdad time 8 were killed and 22 wounded in American airstrikes on Sadr city during Saturday night and around dawn.
“
HeBush is still living inIranWashington. I guess it’s all out war for anybody buthim, Bush” Rice said ofSadrGW, who has not appeared in public in Iraq in nearly a year.“His
followerssoldiers can go to their death and he will still be inIranD.C.,” she told reporters traveling with her on a trip to Baghdad.Now that sounds more accurate.
Condi might not know whether or not to take Sadr seriously but I’d wager Sadr knows whether to take Condi seriously.
And I’d wager the answer is NOT!
Evening all … please make sure to watch the videos at several of the links.
Condi was shopping for shoes while New Orleans was drowning wasn’t she?
talk about irony, just change the names of the key players and therin lies the truth
on my way now
Very good ! Clap, clap.
Think they ever will between now and November? I’m not holding my breath.
Siun, you think Sadr is in Iran? Didn’t we have an arrest warrant out for him when our Provisional Occupying Authority (or whatever Bremer was)was running te show?
They’re bound and determined to take out the Mehdi Army in time for the October elections , eh?
Thanks Siun.
I must go and spend the rest of the evening with 6 pounder, Molly and snuggle and watch some TV. Good night all!
Actually does anyone give a flying fuck what kindofsleazy says or does come to that? The green zone underwent some fairly heavy shelling today as well.
Good one.
Condi seems to be doing a fine job making his points for him.
Lots of luck with that ….
Why shouldn’t she? In BushCo terms, she’s actually a moderate. She and Colin Powell were trying to rein in people like John Bolton, and Powell eventually gave up and bailed.
And of course, the news media still backs the war, so they don’t care.
Maliki and Betrayus seem to think it’ll work…!
Wait! Condi, just like the rest of her crowd has been forcibly restrained from leading the troops into battle! it is not of desire, there is nothing that any member of the Administration would like to do more than set an example for the American people by
butcheringvaliantly leading our brave troops into harms way. As the Decider himself has so magnanimously declared, “It would be kind of romantic!” It is a shame that, at this point in their lives, they cannot recapture that chance for glory which they squandered in their youth, opting for deferments and “Other priorities” instead.It must be true-opportunity knocks but once…
markfromireland – thank you for joining us. I know your time is tight … and needed elsewhere.
The news from the ground is way more important than any Condi nonsense.
The odd thing is during the Basra Maliki fiasco, reports of Sadr were suggesting he was issuing orders and negotiating from Syria.. A couple of weeks later, suddenly, he’s in Iran, always has been. I picked up on Senator Mark “Lieberlovin’” Pryor working the Sadr Iran angle during Petraeus hearings.
SO I went over to Gorillaa Guides and asked, they said it was certainly possible but unlikely anyone knew with certainty.
If they try that, Steve Gilliard’s prediction will come to pass sooner, rather than later.
The prediction? That Moqtada al-Sadr will be drinking coffee at the Balad Starbucks before this is all over. The superbases will be overrun in short order.
I was watching ‘Life After Film School’ (or something like that) this afteroon during Cat Visitation, and the director the students were interviewing had a story about getting equipment through customs in Egypt: after a couple of weeks of equipment on hold, the customs officer asked the production person what he thought about Bush. The answer was ‘I think he made a mistake in Iraq.’ The equipment was released.
We need to get out of Iraq ASAP, not ‘when we [think] we’ve won’.
Actually, he probably does take her somewhat seriously in the fashion of how you’d take seriously a six year old with an automatic weapon with a very loose trigger just because of the damage that can be done.
Speaking of GG, how do I get the english translation, I’ve tried numerous ways but, all I get is the Arabic…?
You don’t we’re now getting around 125,000 visitors per day (not including feed readers) of whom somewhat less than 2% are from English speaking countries. The Iraki contingent decided as a matter of principle to continue with some English language material but for obvious reasons they concentrate on our target audience.
Sorry OT
NEW YORK (Reuters) – U.S. drivers are paying record prices to fill their gas tanks and they could see prices surge as much as 30 cents more per gallon over the next few weeks, according to an industry analyst.
Fill up your cars with gas now its the end of cheap oil Pocalpse!
Condi has accomplished absolutely nothing of value in seven years- perfectly matching the track record of the “look at mah great economy” record of the flim flam man himself….
They are all relieved that they have only nine more months to keep from losing their war in Iraq- confident that the war bubble will burst on someone else’s watch, enabling them to say “I told you so” from safety.
Can you believe that did this Pope not say a word on Iraq? The biggest injustice going on in the World right now. He talked about peace and respect and dignity, but not a word about the atrocities going on in Iraq. Outrageous does not begin to express. Talk about being complicit in the destruction of a Country and the killing of tens of thousands (perhaps hundreds of thousans) of people. Not hard to see why the Muslim World is so skeptical on this Pope after his previous comments and after his silence on Iraq.
understood.
thank you for all you do, mfi.
What I don’t understand is how Iranian (al Hakim, Maliki etc. and Sadr interests are diametrically opposed, except on some religious grounds.. yet they would give him sanctuary while fighting his forces?
I swear these idjits are genetically programmed to be completely self unaware.
They lack a key mineral in their diet, irony.
Aah, that hugs! Understandable tho….! BTW, could you give me some links to Maliki’s lack of popular support in Irak, please! I’m posting at M&C, trying to fill Lurch’s shoes… Clicking on my name will get you there…!
It certainly appears that the political situation in Iraq is getting worse, not better. If Sadr has a big victory in the coming regional elections it could further destabalize the current half assed government leading, one would suppose, to increased chaos….
They’re also opposed on the type of Islamic state they want.
Yes, so why would Iran allow Sadr refuge? I understand if Sadr wants to achieve Ayatollah status, he must study in Iran.. is that enough to keep him welcome and alive in Iran despite all other differences?
Only if you’re an American or an Iraki who supports the occupation. The majority of the population of the country have a different definition than you of the word “worse” and it’s way past time you admitted that very basic fact.
I wouldn’t say it would lead to increased chaos if the SCIRI or Dawa parties are supplanted by the Sadrists, I’d actually argue the opposite… Maybe Mark could shed a ray of light on it!
Amen.
OK–I admit it. Now what?
i don’t know if this is true, hopefully siun or mfi will correct me – but the only thing i’ve heard that made some sense was from wayne white. who, if i understood correctly, seems to think that the iranians see that sadr has actual support from the people (unlike their allies the puppet gov) and that they know they will have to deal with him when we leave. so they are supporting more than one side.
Get to fuck out of the country it’s you and your quisling government creating the instability so get to fuck out – and let them clear up the mess that your country has created.
Pretty much Selise they’re not exactly friendly but don’t want him as an enemy.
How is it any different that Al-Sadr is not in the country and has surrogates doing his fighting for him than what our leaders are doing? I haven’t seen George and Dick suiting up and jumping in a tank to get into the fight, either. Oh, wait….I did see George play dress-up in his pilot outfit when he did his Mission Accomplished bit.
Does the woman even note the irony of what she’saying?
Heh, a minor correction, Mark; Get the fuck out! Not; get to fuck out! ;-)
oh, for leaders so wise as to be able to think this way about the world.
Defend … I edited for length but Al Sadr included the following in his statement:
Easier said than done apparently.
seventy percent of the citizens of this country want exactly that, for us to get the fuck out of that country.
The government is ignoring the will of the people, the opposition party hasn’t got the fucking balls to impeach the warmongering bastards and at this point we are going to have to elect some that do.
Sadr will not lose. “Worse”? Not from the perspective of the Iraki people.
This is not about America, it is not about us.
We must deal with our own inhumanity. We are crimminal killers.
The Iraki people want America to stop.
And they have every right to expect US to do whatever is necessary.
We are NOT doing enough, let us take no comfort in saying we are helpless and ‘unable’ to do ‘anything’.
And, let’s not keep being blind. Let us see the truth
Let’s stop talking and listen, that we might hear the truth.
Well I am a little relieved that someone noticed. I am just amazed at the fact that not one news outlet is mentioning this.
I am always surprised at the amount of attention to “where is Al Sadr?” as if the idea that he is occasionally or even often in Iran = he is backed by Iran when all evidence is otherwise. We know that he leads the largest popular opposition to the occupation and that we – unlike Iraqi Sadr – have no right to be there at all.
You stick to your dialect and I’ll stick to mine :-)
Less than 24 hours after Moqtada Al Sadr issued his final warning that “open war” will be the result of continued attacks on the people of Iraq and that occupation without end will not be tolerated, Condi Rice flew into Baghdad for a little rendezvous in the Green Zone. And like her bully boss, George, she substituted taunts for efforts to bring the bloodshed to an end:
Sounds to me like she wants a war. She never does anything that is not official Bushie policy, so Bush must want a hot shooting war too just in time for elections.
I’m betting they will use the we can’t leave because there’s shooting going on argument. Never mind that they were the ones pushing it, has Condi ever tried Diplomacy?
my apologies for just catching up on the earlier comments. this is so horrendous – mfi, can you tell us more?
markfromireland – we often on Sunday nights talk about the daily conditions in Iraq and I’m wondering if you have any info that you would or could share about what’s happening to people day to day?
hackworth at 8-”She could have been a pianist. Wouldn’t that have been more peaceful for everybody?”
she still is, that’s what gets me sometimes, she is an artist, has had to go to deep places to do her art.
how could she have such ugliness coexist with that.
i came up with the obvious answer one day, the same thing i say about some artists–
they aren’t an artist, they are a fine technician, way different thing, way different part of the brain. different amount of investment in what they create…usually technicians dismiss/negate the creative gifts of artists.
technicians have a disassociative side, cold, removed. empathy not usually a part of their make-up. sociopathic.
so, after that, i dismissed her being a pianist, she’s a technician. how she is made more sense after that.
=========
siun, i hope you don’t mind me posting this-i posted it at the end of the last thread cuz it applied, but when i heard it today, i thought of you and gg’s…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQkFxfyHgMk
jc song god’s gonna cut you down.
i like to think of it as johnny cash’s last f^ck you about the war and other things to george bush.
long list of people in the video who oppose the war.
=======
take care
And we do not forget in our tribulation–in fact we are a tribe that favors them even in our penury–the Iraqi minorities, because we have defended the Christians, and the Shabak and the Turkman and the Chaldeans and others, and we still do. And what has been our reward for that except attacks on our Messenger, and the Pope going to visit the biggest country occupying our Iraq, forgetting the oppression that the Iraqi people face–both the majority and the minority. And forgetful likewise of the suffering of the people from poverty and want and lack of basic services and security and in other ways.
reply Is Sader really defending minorities? Sounds like he might be the guy to run Iraq if this is true? But Bush does want more war so of course he hates this guy.
Well as we’ve repeatedly said on “Gorilla’s Guides” what it’ll take is a nice little catastrophe to get them out. Your oh so brilliant commanders on the spot seem to be arranging that nicely:
In Basra, the Mehdi Army has been able to hold off the Iraqi army in gun battles but has then retreated. But there is no sign so far of the militia being eliminated and it could probably launch devastating counter attacks in the slum districts where its supporters live.
Mr Sadr called a six-month ceasefire last August, renewed it in February and called his militiamen off the streets when they seemed to be winning during fighting at the end of March.
Many of his militiamen are impatient to renew their battle with the Iraqi army and the Americans. In Sadr City, one Mehdi Army commander said on Saturday night that he was “thrilled” by Mr Sadr’s threat to go back to war. “We will wait until tomorrow to see the response of the government,” he said. “Otherwise they will see black days like they have never seen before in their life.”
The US has long encouraged the Iraqi government to crush the Sadrists but seems to have been caught by surprise by current events in which the US finds itself fighting a war on two fronts: one against the Sunni Arabs, which it has waged since 2003, and now a second, which is just beginning, against the Shia
Source: Sadr threatens ‘open war’ as Iraqi army attacks base – Middle East, World – The Independent
Oh yes – I personally know 5 Christian families who fled to Sadr city. There’s a small but but by no means insignificant Sunni community it Sadr city, a somewhat larger one in al-Shula, ditto for al-Sadriyah, al-Zuhair in Basrah has about 50/50 and it’s the Sunnis who are fervrently pro-Sadrist.
I’d be happy to get the fuck out- but I’m not there.
salutations markfromireland, good to see you here….
and the uss lincoln is headed for the persian gulf , more than 2 months before the uss truman (already there) is scheduled to be rotated home (after a 6 month deployment to the persian gulf). last report on the location of the uss lincoln was apr 11-14 in the south china sea.
(and as a reminder for those who haven’t read my prior posts – admiral “not on my watch” fallon announced his resignation on march 11. the uss lincoln was departed for the persian gulf deployment on the march 13.
I’d noticed the press was crowing that they’d just taken the HQ in Basra of the Mehdi Army, and, I thought to myself that they’d merely melted away and are regrouping elsewhere… And, further along, I’d seen several reports that the Sadrists are just itching to pull the trigger, but, are heeding Sadr’s cease fire so far…!
I can not just now deal with any more of the obscenities perpetrated by Bushco, so I resort to snark.
Please note that apparently Dearest Condi is not wearing a flag pin in her lapel. Why does she hate America?
Sorry. Rhetorical question.
Very little food. The electricity situation is a disaster. The water situation is worse than it was even 3 months ago and as we reported in this posting وزارة صحة كردستان تحذر من احتمال عودة الكوليرا الى الاقليم وتطلب العون المالي on 16th April 2008, 12:16 am the cholera breakout is expected to start again within the next few weeks. Corpse findings are up and we’re frantically triyng to evacuate some of our childrens homes before that death squad in uniform known as the US armed forces in IRak turn the inhabitants into collateral damage.
Only your proxies …
rw, this is being done in our name.
You and I may not ‘be’ there but we are stuck ‘there’, don’t you get it?
This is NOT about semantic evasion, inspite of semantic evasion …
Like all the Bush Foxes, she guarding the hen house to make sure none of the minions do their real job.
So do you think he would be a good leader for all Iraqi’s cause Maliki and the rest have not shown me anything. At some point we will have to leave Iraq who would you choose to run the place?
i choose that we don’t get to choose.
iraq belongs to iraqis. they will know better than any of us.
Neither my opinion nor yours nor that of anyone else here is relevant to that. It’s up to the Irakis. I will say that he’s the only political leader there who has built cross community coalitions and keeps his agreements.
selise and mark have got it.
No RWC has very carefully avoided getting it from the outset – he and I have had this discussion about weasel words before I suggest you not waste your time.
All we need to do is make our leaders choose to leave.
Didn’t I read earlier this week Murtha and company want to fund the war now through spring ‘09?
Since we seem to be missing Laura Doty tonight, then I will add that donations to the Red Crescent are desperately needed and can be made here – just select Iraq from the dropdown list.
The link under “how the Iraqis are living” is to a video I could not completely source but it is footage of the children who live at the garbage dump in Sadr City … these are the people who die in our airstrikes.
Agreed but Sader gets points from me for trying to protect minorities that does not sound like the actions of a religious nut looking for war.
Well not the actions of an American religious nut. Condi always talks about her church getting bombed and those girls getting killed.
Has she heard about how Sader is treating minorities?
all awful news, all the time and it is all our fault.
Al Sadr’s words make much sense to me. It’s shameful that so few in America will read them, or even if they do, comprehend them and the pain therein.
(hi MFI — grateful you are here.)
Yes … Murtha thinks it would be good to get the money out of the way … and Rahm, Bayh and buddies think “the Iraqis need more skin in the game”
Spare me the lecture please. I’ve been against this fuckin war from the beginning and I’m against it now.. I’ve worked politically to end it. I admit that I don’t understand much about the situation between the various groups but I am willing to do what I can to end it.
markfromireland … I know a lot has to be left unsaid for everyone’s security but is there any word on how Mohammed is doing? his words have inspired many of us
Sickening!
Well my friend, as I hope you are, we have to do a hell of a lot more, don’t you think?
Siun, the sarcasm or mockery is just the right note in this case.
thank you DWB … good words and thoughts
I’m back for a week to get some legal stuff wound up as the arrival of some grandchildren means I have some trusts that need setting up. That + a two day thingy in hopsital (getting old) then back to Irak.
How have you been keeping?
thanks … I am not snark gifted but that quote just smacked me when I was reading the news this morning
Maybe Rahm, Bayh, and buddies should go on Iraq tour until all US troops have left to put their “skin in the game.”
yes.. i think it’s likely they’ve been bullshitting us along – in order to get our support in each election cycle.
i think you know this better than i, but wanted to through in a link for folks who had not heard.
Have you heard about the scuffle with Senator Grassley? McSame’s a hothead, doesn’t have the temperament to be president IMO. And what about those medical records?
Congratulations on your wondrous grandchildren mfi … you certainly have gained a lot of treasures in a very short time!
Condi still has a job for the same reason that the last of nine players on a Little League team gets to play: there’s no one else left to field.
Why Condi? The answer lies in an analogy with Anthony Eden, another politician whose career met an untimely death because he misread nationalist sympathies in the Middle East and was unable to match home country resources with archaic imperial ambitions.
A long time protege of Winston Churchill’s, Eden was once the golden boy of inter-war English governments such as Stanley Baldwin’s, which preceded the more disastrous government led by Neville Chamberlain. He finally made Prime Minister in 1955, then his career and England’s empire died a quick death after the fiasco of the Suez Crisis in 1956. A wag described Eden — speaking about his early career (in a way that also applied to his own failure as Prime Minister during Suez) — as the best second-rate mind in the third-rate cabinet of Stanley Baldwin.
Vary the levels, ignore outriders like Bob Gates and Colin Powell, and you have Condi Rice. She doesn’t get in Cheney’s way, she makes Shrub feel like he’s in charge, so she stays. And because no one else would want to ride that knobbled horse this late in the race.
Maybe the American people need to seriously put some ’skin’ in it, right here, in the Homeland, what do you think?
Or maybe we can succeed by whining that we’ve tried and we’ve tried.
Right. But how hard?
NOT very.
Not ENOUGH!
I can’t send much, but I’d like to send some bucks to help the Iraqis. Can someone steer me to a group that directly helps the citizens of Iraq?
What kind of leader would Sadr be? Is he like the Taliban irt women? More lenient? Like Iran with their ‘clothes police’? Like the Saudis?
My favorite part, selise, is that it is $170 million, part for Georgie and part for the next President, to stay and ‘win’ …
Condoleezza Rice’s visit is important because it signals that Bush and Cheney want Maliki to continue to challenge Sadr. Tying Sadr to the Iranians (sort of a hoot when you think about Iraqi politics) is an indication that Bush and Cheney would still like to create some kind of a rationale for an attack on Iran.
Thanks for the link.. and bullshitting us, indeed! While holding our troops and all Iraqis and Afghani’s hostage! Why oh why do I call myself a Democrat?
make that BILLION!
Many heartfelt congratulations on your grandchildren dear man.
I hope that your hospital thingy is minor and painless as you mean so much to so many, many people.
(me, I had a bit of a rough patch but all in all, things are looking up.
though I never stop thinking of the horrific impact of our wicked, wicked ways, I hope to be able to pour more energy into stopping this endless and sickening violence and murderous occupation!)
Lefttown – several of us support the efforts of the Iraqi Red Crescent which is the only group that continues to provide aid to all communities in Iraq – even though many RC workers have been killed for doing that and their offices are often targeted by US forces: donations can be made here. (just pick Iraq from the list)
Sorry. I posted right before I read your recommendation. Thanks. I’ll send my contribution to the Red Crescent.
Mohammed and his entire unit together with a lot of young men both from his tribe and his mother’s tribe have left their homes. In Mohammed’s case sending what is left of his family (one sister) and his wife of a few weeks to a place of safety.
They’re undergoing training in how to be more effective fighters which I have no doubt they will put to use.
To use his own words – they came here boasting that they were predators, predators can become prey.
Since your troops arrived:
His grandfather shot down by American troops in front of his eyes. – They didn’t even have the decency to let him try to pick the pieces of that fine old man’s flesh from his hair before they took him to his parents.
Both his parents killed in the Arbaeen massacres.
His brother killed a few weeks before that.
And now Ali’s murder.
That’s rather a high blood price to be paid.
The Murtha idea I think would be a way to give President Obama funds in advance so he would not need to come back to Congress for them when he starts the withdrawal.
or when he decides to stay a little while longer…. ;(
Siun;
Can’t tell you how much I appreciate your posts.
markfromireland; a genuine pleasure, thank you.
Not if Bush and Cheney spend it all beforehand.
I do hope your calculus is correct, Hugh.
Blessings to him and his family– those precious few that are left. What agony.
High blood price, indeed.
Not forgetting Eureka’s all to salient point…
may he be kept safe from further harm to him and his
So much loss in one family … so much. I remember well the writings of his father, Laith, at Guides and he is missed. And the family is an example of how false the talk of sunni v shia is, is it not?
Angie, selise and Siun have spoken for my heart as well.
That false sunni v shia talk has genuinely pissed me off since forever.
It shows how incredibly ignorant the vast majority of American people are and choose to be.
btw, for more on the funding issue, you can check here
Do the Iraqi’s even want to be one nation? Sorry but given Bush’s track record on Intel I have to question every assumption on why we are supposedly there.
Do we know what the Iraqi’s want? Do the Iraqi’s know? Do their various tribal and religious leaders talk amongst themselves about what they would do when were gone?
I hope so because we are going to leave whether its quick under a Dem or with our tail between our legs under McCain (because thats the only way he will leave).
We have failed in Iraq I hope the Iraqi’s have a plan.
And mine. Hello, Mark, and best regards to you and yours.
Yeah! So Condi is talkin’ tough and loud…meanwhile, while she’s back in the States (or Europe) buying her new ensemble which will make Imelda Marcos jealous…the guys on the ground are hunkered down In Sadr City-Takin’ Fire From All Sides
From reading the article above it sounds as if these GI’s have been sold a pile of crap about their role and why they are in Sadr City…and are just realizing that they have been sold a bill of goods. They are in a situation not very far from the guys sent into Mogadishu to capture Aidid…and here’s Condi saying “Bring It On!”
We know how well that worked out the time her boss tried it!
even though many RC workers have been killed for doing that and their offices are often targeted by US forces:
That sounds like war crimes.
Well, it’s a clear admission that the Democrats are going to do nothing to oppose Bush on Iraq before he leaves office. It makes a joke of those pundits who opined that we would have 100,000 troops in Iraq when Bush left. We will be lucky to get back to the pre-surge levels of 130,000 by that time and there is a very good chance that we could have just under 140,000 come Inauguration Day.
And well we ought to have a plan. A simple one. Reparations. Getting out only our current job. There will be more duties after that.
Siun: Great thread. Thanks!
Fixed it for ya.
Siun;
Your posts deal with raw truth, unvarnished and unsanitized, they are at the heart of our collective inhumanity as well as our collective humanity, and they leave too many with no place to hide from themselves.
I wish all Americans over the age of twelve could have the privilege of meeting their conscience and their souls within your posts.
Okay, friends, I have to share this George Carlin clip with you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9rf1CETob0
It’s like he reads our blog every day.
Warning: things like It’s the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it!
I should point out, of course, that if there is an American or Israeli attack on Iran all bets are off. It is one of the worrisome aspects of Petraeus’ strategic “pause” that this extends the time frame for such an attack.
So the best rebuttal for a neo con/liberal who brings up al-Sadr in Iran is, SO?
it also makes a joke of those of us (that would be me) who thought working to help dems get elected to congress in 2006 would be a way to help make the war end.
at least i spent far more time volunteering for the lamont campaign than phone banking for moveon.
… i do so hope you are right about obama. but after so many disappointments, i just can’t get my hopes up.
Laura, how truly wonderful to ’see’ you again.
You are often in my thoughts.
Thank you David and the same back to you. Hope all is well.
and how many contractors?
Yes, thank you, Laura for asking.
How be life treating you? I ask that knowing that you daily bring joy and happiness, as well as understanding and hope to the denizens of what I choose to call Paradise.
Just a few money quotes from the McClatchy artcle by Leila Feidel
“BAGHDAD — Three weeks after U.S. troops were ordered into the sprawling Shiite Muslim slum of Sadr City to stop rockets from raining down on the U.S. Embassy compound in Baghdad’s Green Zone, they’re caught in crossfire between Shiite militiamen and the mostly Shiite Iraqi army. The soldiers in a platoon from the 25th Infantry Division quickly learned that holding a position puts them in the line of fire from both the Mahdi Army militia and the U.S.-backed Iraqi forces.The American soldiers can’t go on the offensive from the run-down two-story house they commandeered in south Sadr City, but must hunker down and wait to get shot at….”I think it’s coming from the north and west,” one soldier said over the radio. “Is the Iraqi army shooting at us?”
Three times that day, the Iraqi army unit just up the road from the house was told to hold its fire…Three times, the Iraqis kept right on shooting.
“Is that IA or JAM?” he asked, using the initials for the Iraqi army and for Jaysh al Mahdi, the Arabic name of anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al Sadr’s Mahdi Army militia…Over the radio, the soldiers heard that Sadr’s brother-in-law had been killed, and that the assassination could increase the violence. They were told not to refer to the enemy as JAM but as insurgents or special groups. “That’s retarded,” Bowen said. They were caught in a political crossfire as well as a real one.
Bowen and his men were sent to Baghdad after the Iraqi government launched a major offensive against Shiite militias in the southern port city of Basra. “It ticks you off it all started as an Iraqi offensive and now . . . it’s definitely linked to Basra,” said Lt. Col. Dan Barnett , the commander of the 1st Squadron, 2nd Stryker Cavalry Regiment, 2nd Brigade Combat Team, who’s heading the American efforts in Sadr City. “I don’t think it’s over.”
“Before we came out here, I considered us peacekeepers, but now we’re considered the bad guys,” said Staff Sgt. Travis Evans , 33, of Seattle .
The platoon was supposed to stay just 96 hours. Now there’s no end in sight.”I guess we didn’t expect this much resistance for their cause,” Evans said.
For the men of the 3rd platoon, life in Sadr City has been predictable boredom pierced by moments of sheer terror. In the 16 days they’d been in the district, they’d had one 12-hour break and suffered through an ambush by the Mahdi Army that destroyed one of their vehicles and nearly killed some of their men.
“I hate Sadr City,” Bowen said. Before his stint here, he’d sympathized with Iraqis who lived in misery and detested foreign occupation. “It’s always the poor and lower middle class that fight. Look at us.” Now he finds it hard to sympathize, with bullets flying at his men.
Spc. Brodie Berkenbile , 20, of Athens, Tenn. , said he’d fire a sniper rifle at people from his rooftop if a foreign army took over. But this is different. “We’re trying to help them,” he said.
“I’d blow up half my house to get back inside,” said Cpl. David Morelock of Greeneville, Tenn.
Laith was somebody I was very proud ot call a friend. And yes Laith was Shia with a Sunni mother. He married a Sunni, as has Mohammed. Laith was an Imam and well respected judge of the Shariah who specialised in mediation. I miss him greatly. He and his sons are what are called Saadah. In other words they are descended directly in the male line from the one of the prophet Mohammed’s children and his wife (Mohammed Ibn Laith’s mother) was a Sayyida a female descendant of one the Prophet Mohammed’s children. That alone would make Mohammed somebody that people will listen to – his reputation as someone who enforced the ceasefire even though he was bitterly opposed to it and his charitable works and writings in Arabic make that far more the case.
Despite his hatred of America and Americans he was still willing to willing to try to enter into dialogue with Mike Kinman:
It is with your enemies my brother in humanity that you must make peace.
I rather think that dialogue has come to an end.
(((angie))) – i did not know about your “rough patch”… please know that you also mean a great deal to people here. you have my email? please use it if you ever feel inclined.
Every mistake Bush has made can be traced to a bad plan. Mr Optimism, Mr Cheerleader of the Economy never plans for when Things Go Wrong or Come Undone (sorry bad Pun couldn’t resist).
I blame all this Power of Positive Thinking, Creative Visual stuff they teach at Management retreats. This leads to Creative Enron style Accounting to explain why reality does not match the Great Leader’s “Vision”.
A real Man with a plan always has a plan for when Things Go Wrong, he always scans the room looking for where the exits are at.
He does not let others move him.
The goal posts always get moved. The Democrats couldn’t do anything because they were in the minority in the Congress. Then it was that they needed veto majorities. Of course, if there is a Democrat as the next President, they wouldn’t need this. So it will be that they need a filibuster proof majority in the Senate. And then if conservative Democrats vote with Republicans they will need something. Curiously, the Republicans have managed to torpedo pretty much anything they wanted while in the minority. Why the Democrats couldn’t do this I am not quite sure but I think most of us could come up with reasons.
Thanks now we just need to get the press to talk about them in the debates!
Condi is the classic bully, keeping to her Rovian script. She alleges that Sadr’s not “man enough” to fight. Ignoring the sexual ironies possible in that comment, Sadr seems to be doing well enough to keep Condi, Bush and Maliki off-balance. Her posturing is the same as any imperialist’s. You could find similar comments made about any group forced to adopt violent or peaceful resistance tactics to defend their claims against a more powerful foreign opponent:
American Indians for centuries; American settlers against the British during the Revolution; Filipino fighters in 1900; Gandhi in South Africa and India in 1900-1940’s; Mao in 1930-40’s; Ho Chi Minh in 1940-60’s; or Israeli fighters attempting to wrest control of Palestine from its English overlords before 1948. Always made by Senators, Viceroys and Cabinet officials in petulant frustration before they scurry off to have their whiskeys and soda or gins and tonic in well-guarded shade and safety.
There’s no necessary moral equivalence among those groups, though some exist, except for their ability to make the foreign oppressor feel powerless. Which of course is a temporary win for them, and why foreign politicians need to diminish them in foreign eyes, if not their own, in a typically unsuccessful attempt to make them fight on terms inherently favorable to the foreigner. There are libraries devoted to such things. But this administration makes its own reality and doesn’t need plans or strategies to deal with anyone else’s.
Thank you for filling in more on Mohammed and his family mfi. Mike Kinman joined us last week and many of us have been moved by his lovely tribute to Ali.
I am honored to have had a chance to know Mohammed and hope some day the dialogue can resume … when Mohammed and his people are in a free Iraq.
Leila Fadel mentioned some of this when she was on Bill Moyers last week. I don’t agree with her 100% but she is one of the few reporters in the MSM who seems to get the political realities of Iraq.
“Is that IA or JAM?” he asked, using the initials for the Iraqi army and for Jaysh al Mahdi, the Arabic name of anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al Sadr’s Mahdi Army militia…Over the radio, the soldiers heard that Sadr’s brother-in-law had been killed, and that the assassination could increase the violence. They were told not to refer to the enemy as JAM but as insurgents or special groups. “That’s retarded,” Bowen said. They were caught in a political crossfire as well as a real one.
Sounds like orders to twist intel the way Bush wants have gone down to the troop level.
So if Bush orders the troops on the ground to say something he wants them to say then he can
honestlysay that he is listening to the troops on the ground.My comment at 151 was in response to Cinnamonape @ 142 I thought I hit the reply button sorry!
you know what worries i have for irak the most? from the time when people started leaving and those that stayed were arrested and murdered?
that by the time the dust settles, and they can look around and assess what is left…..by the time we leave and people can walk out onto the street and look around in stunned silence and say, ok, now what, that amidst the deafening silence of no bombs, no gunfire, no sound, that among the rubble, that noone will be left in the country to rebuild it……that anyone with any vision or genuine concern and love for wanting a free irak will have either emigrated or is dead or is in hiding. that is my fear.
that’s when i hope someone drags out an instrument and people slowly come from wherever they have had to be to save their lives and gather and start digging out and building.
in spite of the overwhelming odds of it all.
and i hope that until that time comes that someone can tell me what i can do to help besides write letters and donate to red crescent.
Condi went to Iraq to tell Maliki, “This is your baby, go do it.” I think the only lens needed to view Rice is her chairmanship of the torture meetings.
IT always amazes me that the people’s history (Forgive me, Howard) would suggest that our nation has chosen the ‘wrong side’ so often that folk wisdom alone, should be digusted, disillusioned and done with the inhuman madness of ‘empire’. After more than a hundred years of it we should be ready, willing and able, to try something else, perhaps civility, honestly and responsibility, devoid of myths of exceptionalism and hubris.
We’ll see …
Actually you’re saying truer than you know. The politicisation of your officer corps is military disaster of the first order. Not the first emnpire to make that mistake after they launched a land war in Asia either ……
thank you selise.
I wonder if Condi or any Bushie will take the blame for America’s failure in Iraq?
this is a horrific tale … and we are so likely to miss the crime of our seizure of this man’s home and livelihood … for shame
i blame them.
yeah, i know. i don’t count. not a Very Serious Person.
Cuck Fondi.
Her husband George W. Bush boldly called for the insurgents to ‘bring it on’ while ensconced in the known insurgent hotbed of the Whitehouse. Noted for 24 butler, maid and chef service a pool, a movie theatre, a bowling alley and around the clock military protection.
Brave mofo’s.
-G
Yes, it was the great Vizzini who remarked, “You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia.”
Thanks! that would explain a lot of our mistakes. But as long as the war profiteers are making money apparently the rest of the economy can go to hell.
Unless after this war we make the war profiteers, the oil companies and the Main Stream Media pay special taxes to help our own troops with more education and complete health care, plus money to rebuild Iraq.
Provided the UN and the Iraq’s monitor the money and the Iraq’s and not foreign contractors do the job.
The high Iraqi unemployment rate provides the resistance fighters I wonder what would have happened if we provided the Iraqi’s jobs from the begining instead of importing workers.
Imperialists torturing resistance fighters? Who could have known such a thing would happen?
As with all species, a certain number among us are predators and would never think of chatting away to solve their problems when they feel powerful enough to terrorize in order to get what they want. We believed as a nation that we were past such things, had outgrown them, a perception BushCo manipulated for years to cover what they are and what they do.
The curtain is slowly being yanked away and their crimes are just beginning to be exposed. It would be tremendously harmful to pretend again that only by ignoring the past can we build reconciliation and a better future. That would be like an alcoholic trying to stop drinking without first admitting he’s an alcoholic. Oh, wait, George….
mark,
Please forgive my ignorance, but how long have you been going to Irak, do you speak the language(s) and, guessing your time ‘pressed’, I greatly value the insights you share with us. I should very much like to see you here as often as you may be able.
As I said, it is a true pleasure to have your presence, courage and compassion among us.
This is asinine… “U.S. and Iran Find Common Ground in Iraq’s Shiite Conflict”
What is up with them…?
I’ll bet you drank from the cup in front of you.
hugh at 154-”Condi went to Iraq to tell Maliki, “This is your baby, go do it.” I think the only lens needed to view Rice is her chairmanship of the torture meetings.”
no, she went there to say, time to deal, it’s all in place, what are you waiting for? you’ve almost got the suni’s back into parliament, we’ve helped you neuter sadr, he can’t vote against it, we want that freakin’ oil deal done NOW!!!! before the election, and we can’t guarantee you’ll still be in office unless you push harder, but meanwhile, deliver. oil legislation, NOW.
and by the way, how many people read sadr’s 9 point plan? i did…….
didn’t get much press, and can’t find it in my links.
so many important things that got passed over in the news before basra and during and after, i called the bookmark file mohammed.
Your comments and insights on the war are more truthful and interesting than Condi’s self serving lies memoirs will be. I pity her book reviewer.
Been going to Irak for more than twenty five years. Lived there for quite a while and am sufficuently fluent that until they see me they can’t tell I’m not an Arab.
dmac, here’s a good source with links…
http://arablinks.blogspot.com/
re condi’s memoirs – i’ll ghost write it for her if you can get me her advance. hell, i’ll even use the shift key!
DWB – mfi is being a bit humble there – he’s got a doctorate in Islami law from Qum and is very familiar with the region …
Natch, I’ve developed a resistance from reading our poisoned mainstream media.
Thank you Siun, and thank you mfi! Be safe as possible, sir!
I am absolutely interested in anything you have to say, clearly you understand Irak as only someone who loves a nation and its people, as one human to relating with respect and appreciation toward others, may. Though you might bristle at the notion, I regard you as quite ‘expert’, not only interms of Irak, but also as regards humanity in general …
You have my profound respect.
Not in the job description, but thanks anyway :-)
Your insight does not surprise me, Siun, in the least. But, thank you for exposing the truth.
I’ll second that DWB .. it is always a special gift to have time with mfi here – and his work has helped so many of us understand a bit more.
Thanks yet again, Siun. And thank you, mfi. Sending best thoughts your way for health and safety.
I always appreciate a visit from any of the posters at GG!
Being Irish helps. Courtesy of our history of invasion and oppression we tend to get on with other victims of empire. Our peacekeeping efforts in Lebanon which I took part in helped a lot. Mostly though it was that we treated everyone as people which came as a shock to them when compared to other westerners. Also I like the place – despite everything you may read it’s a bloody marvellous country.
Siun, you should read the NYT article I cited at 166, it was just posted at the Times…!
Probably not the last, either. While it’s not the worst thing that has come out of this period, it’s certainly something to be concerned about. It’s even more disturbing that the politicization has been spread to almost every other part of our government.
As you wish, should I say?
mark says-”I rather think that dialogue has come to an end.”
oh, i so hope that is not so…..
i wish this was in a private email, but it’s not, so here goes……
when jane put up the post ’moment of silence’ was when i heard of ali’s murder, what came out as my first reaction was a poem, of what one feels when grief is the only thing you feel.
i wrote this to mohammed-
Moment of Silence
head bowed
hands clasped
staring at my still alive hands.
no words
my mind is numb
staring at my still alive hands
tears falling on my still alive hands.
i wrote siun, and said that i always thought that mohammed had the heart of a poet.
i now hope he does not turn to murder. the heart of a poet does not mesh with that, no matter what has happened.
but i would add that every human being needs to do what they think is right. i would not deny him that in my thoughts of him.
if he has cut off other guidance, i hope he still looks to you for it.
(and i hope gg will put english translations right after the arabic, makes me want to learn it when i see a post and i can’t read it, so badly want to know what is happening)
Mohammed does write poetry Dmac. A lot of Irakis do. They boast that in Irak another poet is born hour. YOu can see it in his writing even in English a rythm there – and lots of Quranic references.
Incidentally look at the tags at the end of the postings – they give an idea of what the psoting is about. They’re like the index to a book – they give you some idea of whats going on.
I heard her say that on Bill Moyer’s program on Friday. Leila Fadul is a most impressive 26-year-old woman. Unbelievable, what she’s seen and experienced, and how wise and composed she seems to be. Impressive.
Al Sadr wants ALL foreigners out. He’ll be nobody’s puppet. And neither the U.S. nor Iran likes that.
thanks mark, i just knew it, i really did. from the beginning, that’s what broke my heart about him. or touched my heart, both happen at the same time when that is the case. a hard way to be. especially where he is.
make sure he has some nice paper and a good pen. but then, an envelope and charcoal will do in a pinch.
he’ll be expressing it wherever he is, i, well, that’s all…….i can’t put it into words. maybe he will someday.
When it comes to poetry and the expression of what it feels to be minimized as a human and a victim of colonialism, I quote the very recently departed Aime Cesaire:
“This final scene in The Tempest shows Cesaire’s attitude towards colonization. The colonizer imposes on the colonized all kinds of lies. The colonizer makes the colonized feel unworthy of living.”
http://english.emory.edu/Bahri/Cesaire.html
This occupation and spread of American empire must end.
just wow.
Time for me to get some sleep before my grandchildren wake up and start complaining about the shocking service you get from
grandparents/parentsslaves these days.WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! = SLAVES!!!! You are 15 Seconds late with the MILK this is UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!!!!
There’s a good reason why we’re designed to have kids when we’re young……..
*poof*
Dmac – we share a wish to some day read Mohammed’s writings … perhaps we should both be studying Arabic!
and Angie – thank you for the Cesaire! wow
mark at 188-”ncidentally look at the tags at the end of the postings – they give an idea of what the psoting is about. They’re like the index to a book – they give you some idea of whats going on.”
welllllllll, mark,,,,,,, that is EXACTLY why i would like the english after…..”they give an idea” an idea? i want to read it, the whole thing, the whole bloody mess, please……i see things that i would REALLY like to know what the hell is going on, and the tags say SOMETHING HAPPENED, yet, i can’t know what they are, english teaser tags, i have equated them to hype shows, many times i have googled to find out, and you know and i know, not a thing available anywhere else, so, i get to worry and wonder about no water, what happened without really knowing, cuz I CAN’T READ IT. check back and there’s never any reference back to the post i couldn’t read, so the event happened, yet i don;t know what it is…..
i am a letter writer, of the prolific kind, i’m not a sounder=offer, i write with quotes and information. and gg’s stuff could help me define things. one more source that i can use to make a concise point.
so, learn arabic at age 49? by the time i do, hopefully it will be over and english and arabic will be as common as popcorn is here.
siun at 195-”Dmac – we share a wish to some day read Mohammed’s writings … perhaps we should both be studying Arabic!”
sounds crazy, but i have always wanted to…..
when i was young, my uncle, who worked for the guggenheim institute, was a historian on the side, took out a book, don’t remember which one, to explain something to me……
it was written in arabic.
i remember saying, it’s so beautiful. the script, to write like that every day. what a feeling.
he explained how it was written right to left. i thought, how great if you are left-handed, he explained how insightful a thought that was. a high compliment from a man who was entrenched in such depths his entire life. truly a genius, the kind of weird kind, hermit kindof, but loves humanity.
he then got a book out written in hebrew.
same thing to me, right to left.
later, i learned they were enemies.
never understood that. they write the same way, not the same as us, they ought to be the same i thought.
funny, huh?
when seals and crofts summer breeze album came out i played it on his stereo, there was a song, east of ginger trees that had references i didn’t understand, so, knowing he was a walking encyclopedia, he explainedit to me, that it was a religious reference. he taught me many things about tolerance and that people just live their lives the way that they are taught and where their minds take them.
fine man.
Dmac … mfi explained a bit above at #37. With the Guides team doing a lot of work and just trying to survive, having to also translate is often too much and we are not their main audience.
I find the tags helpful – and combine reading those with scanning Aswat Aliraq and Missing Links daily. Also reports from UNHCR and Reliefnet are helpful.
what good lessons … a blessing for you. Thanks for sharing that.
and I too am now off … work comes early tomorrow.
thanks to all for good conversation
angie-i did many paintings from the tempest and about prospero
one is called prospero’s island. is a watercolor, abstract, with lines around all of the water marks.
like an aerial topographical photograph of an island. with side things from the play.
i had his last ’speech’ (can’t remember the proper name of it) on my refrigerator for about 15 years.
thanks.
siun at 198-” Dmac … mfi explained a bit above at #37. With the Guides team doing a lot of work and just trying to survive, having to also translate is often too much and we are not their main audience.
I find the tags helpful – and combine reading those with s”
oh, i completely understand the ’why’ of it, all of the ramifications of waht they do, they are beyond nervy and very brave and so dedicated, when i see one in english i jump on it, just wanted to say that it is torturous to read the tags, see something imminent causing more strife and can’t read it, and if given the translated articles i would be putting them to good use…….
thanks for the other links, (as you know) i will use them.