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The Huffington Post has Hillary Clinton on tape disparaging Barack Obama and his support from MoveOn, saying that the organization "didn't even want us to go into Afghanistan.
I've tried to stay out of the pie fights of late, but as a long-term defender of MoveOn and other progressive organizations -- this is completely unacceptable.
"MoveOn opposed military action in Afghanistan" is a Republican talking point, articulated specifically and purposefully by Karl Rove:
Rove went on to say that conservatives wanted to "unleash the might and power" of the military against the Taliban in Afghanistan, while liberals wanted to submit petitions. He cited a petition he said was backed by MoveOn.org that called for "moderation and restraint" in responding to the attacks.
"I don't know about you, but moderation and restraint is not what I felt as I watched the twin towers crumble to the earth, a side of the Pentagon destroyed and almost 3,000 of our fellow citizens perish in flames and rubble," he said, according to the text.
I defended Hillary Clinton when she refused to bow to right wing pressure and condemn MoveOn over the "General Betrayus" ad (and was sad when she finally capitulated). MoveOn are valuable progressive partners who have been with us on Donna Edwards, net neutrality, trying to bring an end to the war, FISA, and other issues we've been fighting for.
They've accepted the challenge of organizing the left in the virtual arena and done an amazing job that the right struggles to replicate. They now have 3 million members, of which I'm one. And their skill at online organization and movement building has developed a model that both of the Democratic candidates have been able to copy and learn from, acting as a democratizing influence and making candidates more responsive to the public at large and less to high dollar donors.
MoveOn may not have opposed military action in Afghanistan (according to Eli Pariser in the Washington Post) but I did, because I was quite certain George Bush would bungle it and we'd just wind up spending billions on a bunch of junk that would make his buddies rich and a lot of poor people in the poorest country in the world would die senselessly. Sadly that turned out to be right, and disparaging anyone for challenging this country's unrelenting bellicosity during the Bush administration is wrong.
Does Hillary Clinton not want my vote either?
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I despise Hill!
Hillary for 2012!
I think Bill and Hill have Campaign Addiction…
Intervention, stat!
Thanks Jane.
rut-roh
she has jumped the shark…..a few times
lookeeeeeee here
http://images.huffingtonpost.c.....-large.jpg
It is almost as if she has a script listing actions which I consider unacceptable. She has certainly been managing to push all of my buttons lately.
She demands your vote!! it is her due!!
all snark aside, I just wonder if she’s so far around the bend that she doesn’t even realize how many people she is alienating with all this nonsense.
Doesn’t make sense to me. A democratic candidate should support grass/net/root people.
I have mixed feelings about MoveOn but do support them when we can work together for a common goal.
Wow. This is sad.
Ahhhh. She’s looking for her Sistah MoveOn moment.
I wonder if it had anything to do with sleep deprivation.
Looks like she’s trying to rally the Vichies (DLC).
Hillary says: “We have been less successful in caucuses because it brings out the activist base of the Democratic Party.”
Damn those party activists!
I guess we need fewer activists?
Amen Jane! I too am a MoveOn member and they’ve done a helluva lot more for progressive causes than Hillary Clinton ever pretended to do. How far can we afford to let her embrace of the Rovian style go? I’ve stayed out of this primary mess for months, vowing to support whoever wins the nomination as they go toe to toe against McCain. No more. Obama will get my vote, whether he is the Democratic candidate or whether I have to write him in. Clinton has gone way too far to the dark side for me to ever vote for her now, which saddens me, because I once would’ve gladly voted for her.
Well said, Jane. I just don’t get it and it makes me sad….
I know you can chalk it up to deseration — but it is the classless, intoxicated addict form of desperation (where you are willing to become what you hate to get what you need).
Well said Jane…it means much since FDL has been so balanced
move on dot org is an ectremist group saddled with big bucks to remake the US into a better “Soviet Union” than the one that existed for less than a century in Eastern Europe/Asia.
Surely there’s more to life than being a “moveon” lemming!
Hillary is a deceitful person, always has been- took you dems a long time to realize this.
You Barak supporters have almost no clue as to what he really believes, yet you fawn all over him. Pathetic.
“deseration” of course = desperation, but of a particular political type.
just a small correction.
i opposed the war against afghanistan too - but because i thought it was the wrong thing to do. i always wanted us to go after the guilty - but we were too consumed by bloodlust and redirected aggression to do that.
… i have lots of complaints wrt to moveon - there’s lots of room for people of intelligence and good will to disagree about what we should do. but let’s at least get our history right
i hope this is misreporting and that clinton never did any such thing. if there’s a tape, i look forward to getting to seeing it for myself.
the whole article is up at huffpo and i assume also at Kos
Bad move on Clinton’s part, that’s for sure.
Did Moveon.Org endorse Obama?
I dunno, I sort of liked deseration. Sounds desolate.
Yes. They first polled their memebership as to when they should endorse and follwed it up with a vote on who to endorse.
There is no video, but there is an audio tape. Been site-hopping a lot, so not sure if it was huff post that has the audio. or another site.
Ok, I’m confused, Jane.
Is the prime objection that she’s saying Afghanistan was right and opposing it was wrong? Kudos to you for opposing it…but something on the order of 80% of *Democrats* supported *that* invasion so it’s hardly news that those of us who didn’t are not exactly mainstream , is it?
Or is it that she’s undermining MoveOn? Seems to me they asked for that by making an endorsement very early in very close primary. They essentially told HER to go to hell…how on earth can we fault her for returning fire? (Assuming she did, of course)
MoveOn endorsing Obama was wrong (and I’m no Hillary suppporter). When they took sides they put themselves right dead in the middle of the piefight. I don’t see how we can complain now if they get a little pie in their face…..
Audio here
Hillary Clinton is bitter.
She made these statements after Super Tuesday, which was the original planned end-date of her campaign for the Democratic nomination. Things did not work out as she and her krewe planned; things still continue to go awry for her.
Which means all of her laudatory remarks since then about the wonderful high levels of participation among the Democratic activist base have been lies. She doesn’t want people participating, especially those of us who want to change the criminal foreign policy of BushCheneyCo.
Using Rove talking points is, unfortunately, not new for Hillary Clinton.
I hope Democratic activists in Pennsylvania will take heed and end her futile campaign for the Presidency on Tuesday. It’s over.
Let’s move on.
At the risk of being flamed, can we place her comments in context? Right after Super Tuesday (at which point she had assumed originally she’d have things wrapped up) and right after MoveOn had endorsed Senator Obama. I know for myself, I was a bit disappointed at MoveOn for endorsing so early in the game so I can also imagine how she felt about it.
Note: I am not a fan of HRC or BHO but will vote for the nominee leading the ballot in November 2008.
i don’t think pie fighting is Jane’s issue rather the repug talking points she used (the same as Karl Rove) that were wrong.
This is a cold, calculated, Clinton triangulation move. Lacking sicerity, it’s only for political gain. The moral compass that guides the Clintons has only one point: do anything that is for the benefit of the CLintons..
To me, it just seems like typical Clintonian triangulation. Diss a (supposed) leftist org. like MoveOn thereby polishing your centrist credentials.
Sistah Souljiah.
*sigh*
agreed
Maybe David Brooks is right, and the Dems are going to hand this election to McCain.
My friend today told me that we’ve had a war on terror, a war on drugs, and a war on poverty, when what we needed was a war on stupid.
That’s how I read it, too, and I agree. I don’t know what the point is of running as a Democrat if you’re dead set on acting just like Karl Rove.
Chabord, she didn’t just slam MoveOn…unless MoveOn is “the activist base of the Democratic party”. Also, she lied about MoveOn using a Karl Rove talking point.
Jane,
A year ago I was firmly supporting Hillary. For me Obama was an empty suit. And that argument on many levels is still true. What changed me was the talking points.
Thank you, Jane!
I’m a MoveOn member, too (although have had to be less active than I want to be).
Even though she may have been upset with their endorsement of Obama, her whining about MoveOn as if they are the reason for her defeat is truly pathetic. As if every stupid decision she made in her campaign’s moves (or early on, their LACK of movement — expecting “inevitability” to carry her) had nothing whatsoever to do with it.
Please.
How desperate.
She despises “activists”? Well, this shows what her presidency would be like, doesn’t it? Blaming others for her own mistakes, and the shooting down the most enegized folks looking for progressive changes…
Enough of defending Hillary for using Rovian tactics for me. If you are a Hillary supporter that is great and good for you but I have spent the last 8 years fighting like hell against the Bush administration and the filth that is Karl Rove. The destruction they have wrought on this country, our Constitution, our civil rights and our international reputation is staggering. I cannot and will not support any candidate who feels it is justifiable to mimic and utilize those self-same tactics for whatever reason.
I will never accept the ends justifying the means. When one of the contenders for the Democratic nomination openly, candidly, and clearly regurgitates Republican talking points against her opponent and members of her own party knowing that the Republican party will use that against whoever wins the nomination, she has gone too far in my book. That is my feeling and it isn’t going to change. I needed to say that and I have. I wish those of you who support Hillary despite this well. I can’t anymore.
What we need is to stop using war as a fucking metaphor for anything and everything.
any chance this was deliberate?
remembering the reaction to moveons’ Betrayus ads,
and now Hillary’s outrageous claim moveon was against going after Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, hmm is this too convenient?
Well said.
oh boy, this is really going to hit a raw nerve with some people
Did Moveon support military action in Afghanistan?
What the Taliban did to the women of Afghanistan was despicable, and so I supported that invasion. What chimpy did afterwards–invading Iraq–was equally despicable (not to mention stupid) and I opposed it.
That said, you have been very balanced (unlike the Orange Obama) and Hillary shouldn’t be attacking her own side.
The “Real” Mrs. John McCain.
oh boy, this is really going to hit a raw nerve with
somemany peopleAs opposed to you, who can read his mmmiiinnnndddd!
So you’re advocating a war on War?
“Soviet Union”, that’s just a Limbaugh talking point! I think I’ll mosey over and drop a C note on Move on in honor of ol’ Hazmat and the DLC…
Uh, MoveOn polled their MEMBERS and endorsed the (strong) winner of that poll.
Are you suggesting MoveOn should have said to its 3.2 million members, “Hey, this is a close primary. Don’t express a preference.”?
thanks for the audio link. i’m having trouble making out all the words, does anyone have a link to a transcript? or should i try to make one?
per the article on Huffpo:
MoveOn never opposed the war in Afghanistan
Good on you, Priscilla!
Clinton looks at Obama, and the only playbook she has to use is the one created by the Republicans and adopted by the media. Personal attacks over trivia, innuendos, smears, etc. She’s become well steeped in the Beltway mindset, with its contempt of outsiders who actually think their views matter. Truly sad- but then she’s surrounded herself with people who all feel that way.
After umpteen years in the governor’s mansion in Arkansas, then the White House, the corporate boards, the Senate, it’s no wonder she’s lost touch with reality. Having ‘experience’ of all this, to the point that it becomes one’s normal environment, is why we have a ruling class that is so detached from ordinary people and things that matter.
No.
Submitted for your consideration
How do the various candidates react under pressure?
(Albeit purely political pressure up to this point)
You’re welcome, I don’t know of a transcript right now though.
I’ve been looking and haven’t located on yet
I love this part:
“. . . So they flood into these caucuses and dominate them and really intimidate people who actually show up to support me.”
So THAT’s why she can’t win in caucuses. Now I get it.
Don’t feed the troll.
Sounds like she only likes democracy when it’s her people flooding in.
so you want a piece of War?
Hillary wants your vote Jane, just not your opinion.
There’s a partial transcript in the Huffpo article that seemed accurate as I was listening. There are a couple of sentences on the audio before it then meshes with the transcript.
Exactly! No more f#*king wars!
Oh No! Hillary (aka Mark Penn) is flaming the angry fem hippie bloggers of the toobz. Poor Hill does not know of our mighty wrath. But we must show sympathy, since she had a 20 to 30 point polling lead. Only the worst campaign ever, could have thrown that away. I think supporters of Hillary should give Mark Penn and Howie Wolfson the credit they deserve. You have already given them over $10 million for their great job. That does not count the money they got from the government of Colombia
She is blaming MoveOn? Try blaming herself and Mark Penn first.
i’d like to know exactly when this took place and also, who what at this “private fundraiser” - seems like a very warmongering audience.
I just hate seeing dems attacking other dems.
Hillary’s trying a new tactic: Move to the center BEFORE the party convention! The heck with appealing to the Party’s base before the convention.
Of course, she wants to re-define the party’s base, and the definition apparently does not include DFH or progressives.
Bob in HI
LMAO!
I have had it up to HERE with her!
She’s really letting out her inner Joe Lieberman.
Without the Netroots and the blogosphere, the right wing narrative would still dominate, and we’d still me a minority. I’m convinced of that.
Mrs. Clinton just laments the days when insiders had all the power and could pose as populists while selling out the middle class - all without ever being called on it in any organized fashion.
After Tuesday (when she picks up 12-20 delegates at most, coming no closer to winning the nom), I really hope all of us on this side, who have been so patient with the process, begin to shut it down.
Time for her to GO.
This campaign really showed something. It shows how well Obama learned his lesson in community organizing. While Obama isn’t perfect(not even Feingold is), I am glad I canvassed for him last weekend and will do it again.
What does that do? (not being a smartass, I’m curious)
HuffPo had approx. 900 comments when only the headline was up …
and I repeat *sigh*
Exactly!!!
And blaming Mark Penn would come down to blaming herself, too, since she chose first to hire him, and then to keep Penn around.
Another example of what her presidency would be like.
Sorry Jane but Hillary wants nothing to do with you or your vote. You’re not her kind of American. You think for yourself instead of just follow blindly.
Ding! Perfectly said as usual Bob.
From HuffPo:
I’m guessing this is not a good day to be Howard Wolfson. In fact, he’s probably not going to have a very good weekend, either.
No, I’m not suggesting that MoveOn should’ve told its members not to express a preference - that’s just silly. But MoveOn itself had no business endorsing in a primary between two people of pretty much identical progressive credentials. Doing was was necessarily and inherently an act that could only be divisive.
Now, if they had polled their members in *December* and endorsed *Edwards*……. ( grin )
Oh, you mean as in being a majority? Tough.
Hoo boy, I just remembered that MoveOn was originally founded in the wake of the Lewinsky scandal, to get folks to “move on” from that type of gotcha crap.
Look at the gratitude they get!
You’re giving her too much credit. She’s ALWAYS been a “closet” conservative–from the link KaylnMaine gave the other day to mother jones mag:
1,816 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Do I detect a note of disappointment or, dare I say, betrayal, Sister Jane? I am not gloating here but are you surprised? Mrs. McClinton has made so many promises over the years and has been in bed with SOOOO many corporations for the last 10 years that she can hardly do other than she has done now that the only service she can provide her corporate pimps is to try and catapult fascist propaganda into the Democratic primary.
I hope we have now heard the last of the accusations of misogyny and sexism against those of us on the left who have been actively opposing her efforts to flush a “new” Democratic Party into the old Republican sewer.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION…IT’S OK TA BE MAD AS HELL!!
Wasn’t MoveOn created during the Lewinsky stuff to get us all to like…move on? She owed them big. And she let them down equally big. Who knew that would happen?
Tell the media they suck
-slag
good grief - she’s a fundie !
Funny…today she is trying to say that “Obama can’t take the heat” and is a “complainer”. “He should quit…I never complain”.
Well, this tape shows she does a lot of “mighty whinging”. And I recall earlier her complaining about the Media being sexist, complaining that she always got the first question at debates, that delegates that she expected to show loyalty to her (and her husband) were being “disloyal”, the comaplaint that Obama was getting a “free ride”, the skit on SNL- which was essentially a whine about Obama’s “regal” treatment by the media. We knew that she was whining about things in Texas by Obama supporters being far more prepared and organized…only her legal teams were “organized”.
But now it seems that she was whining about how “activists” were making this a real Primary Campaign as far back as Super Tuesday.
But she’s trying to assert today that Obama is the whiner? This from Madame “Cookies and Right Wing Conspiracies”?
Karl Rove talking points? Hillary? Shocking..GOP lite.
Fast typer, you are!
Does this mean that what Hillary becomes queen, er I mean president, this site will be shut down?
This sounds a bit familiar . . . Oh yes, it’s what Jane said last September to Elizabeth Edwards (with emphasis added):
Jane, your clarity in standing up for progressive values is stellar. Because you stayed out of the pie fights, it left you clear to criticize all participants in the Democratic primary process.
Thank you.
Actually the thing that irritated most recently about Clinton is a report I heard on the NewsHour where she used wrt Obama’s remarkd about the unfairness of the ABC debate the Harry Truman quote, “If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.” It ignores the fact that Stephanopoulos was a top level staffer in Bill’s Administration. Yet despite this conflict of interest, he was one of the two moderators. Beyond that both Stephanopoulos and Gibson seemed to compete with each other in who could repeat the most Republican talking points and who could avoid the longest asking a substantive question. Clinton should have been as critical of the moderator bias in that debate as anyone. Instead she used it to take a cheap shot at Obama. What we are seeing with Clinton is someone who is committed to a scorched earth policy with regard to the nomination. If she can’t have it, she wants to do as much as possible to see whoever does, in this case Obama, doesn’t win in November.
Great minds run in the same channels.
;-)
I had the strangest idea yesterday, and want someone to seriously disabuse me of the notion of a McCainClinton ticket
here’s my incomplete transcript, based on (and with corrections to) the quotes from huffpo.
hoping others will give the audio a very close listen and correct/complete this. thanks.
……..
[Mod: see update in comment below at 5:18.]
i think there are two bits that may or may not be separated in time:
Jane,
I signed up here to say to you that I’m sorry that I posted your story at DU before knowing it was going to be taken down. As a fellow “true” democrat who meant no harm but saw the significance in your thread. I think Hillary Clinton has now just lost the election. I believe this is an historic moment we are witnessing tonight.
SFJ
i want to know who are the warmongers in the dem party she was pandering to.
As someone who has supported every liberal agenda for over forty years, Clinton’s remarks were like slap in the face. Things said in closed door meetings and fund raisers, remarks about ignorant Southerner’s who didn’t support Bill in ‘94, give me the creeps. This is a Democrat saying this?
A massive retaliation against Iran if they struck Israel is something that I don’t think even the dumbass that’s occupies the White house would utter.
She would now be contending for the Presidency if Obama hadn’t entered the race and our choices would be limited to an eternal presence in Iraq or a candidate who promises massive retaliations to secure the pro-Israel vote.
Somebody is whining and bitter. I did not know MoveOn was a gusher.
As some commentator said yesterday….there are hundreds of hidden mines regarding HC…most held by the GOP from the 90’s. So be it. However, this crap coming after super tuesday…she does not whine? she does not take repug talking points as her own? she does not lie? I’m over her and Bill and Chelsea….buhbye….
Obama has, barring some disastrous error, already won the nomination. Senator Clinton is becoming increasingly destructive, trying to provoke him into a disastrous error. It’s time for the superdelegates to end this thing before she flames out.
In regards to question, What does Obama do?
He makes you believe that you can make a difference. He talks and you listen and your heart begins to feel lighter and bigger in your chest. It really feels like some kind of spiritual experience. He doesn’t say “I”, he says “We” when he talks about working hard. He doesn’t say easy, he says difficult, but somehow you want to work hard and even make sacrifices–but the sacrifices aren’t for him. They’re for the better things that both you and he are working for. I know he’s famous and hopefully about to be president, but it feels like a real and equal partnership. He tells you that he wants you to believe not just in the change he can effect, but in the change we all can effect if we stand together. He made us believe in ourselves and it felt good. So many of us have felt helpless about government for so long and now he’s shown us how to do something about it and we’ve gone after it big time. We feel empowered and strong. He says we’re the people we’ve been waiting for and we seem to be proving that’s true. We like him a lot, but we love ourselves when we act on the things he showed us about grass roots organization. Come join us. It is an amazing experience in patriotism. You seemed to ask an honest question and I took the time to answer from my heart and from my experience. I hope it answered your question. Blessings.
i agree.
that’s one reason for trying to get it as correct as possible.