1) TPM and Will Bunch pointed out that the woman who asked Obama the "Why do you hate the American flag?" question in Wednesday's debate had already appeared in an NYT story a couple of weeks ago... asking, "How can I vote for a president who won't wear a flag pin?" As TPM and Bunch point out, it looks an awful lot like ABC actively sought her out because they wanted someone to ask Obama that ridiculous question. Someone who wasn't Charlie Gibson or Mr. Snuffalupagus.
2) Snuffy got one of his questions directly from Sean Hannity, who had been peddling the Weatherman story for months. Maybe it had something to do with Hannity being one of ABC's prize radio personalities:
Why does Sean Hannity connect so well with his millions of listeners? Is it because of his commitment to family? Could it be his community involvement? Perhaps it's his love of politics and his genuine American spirit?
It's because he is one of you.
Sean Hannity is the voice of the working class and champion of conservative values and politics.
If that's true, the working class has a lot to answer for... but I digress.
And then there was Snuffy's lame defense of the questions, where he essentially argued that asking frivolous gotcha questions is actually a brilliant way of assessing a candidate's electability. Which is apparently far more important than what kind of president they would be, or their plans to repair the Bush-inflicted damage they would inherit, or whether they would attempt to hold Bush and his minions accountable for their crimes.
Oh, and do you know Snuffy has on This Week this week? Why, John McCain, of course. Will he ask McCain whether he had an affair with a lobbyist, or (as Mike Stark suggests) about how he dumped his first wife for a newer, richer model? No, of course not. After all, the Republican voters have already picked their candidate, and apparently they didn't need any shallow questions about flag pins or Inconvenient Pastors to make up their minds. No doubt because they're so much more bold and decisive and manly than we soft, dizzy hippies.
All of this incestuous coziness and media catapulting of Republican manufactroversies is why I sort of agree with Josh Marshall:
[W]e have now crossed an important threshold where the Republican operative cadre has sufficiently disciplined and trained the press (and more than a few Democrats) that their own role may simply be redundant.
...[M]embers of the prestige press appear to see... a positive journalistic obligation to engage in their own organized campaign of falsehood, distortion and smear on the reasoning that it anticipates the eventual one to be mounted by Republicans.
(This is especially striking when contrasted with Jonathan Alter on Countdown two weeks ago, saying that "it's up to the Democrats" and not the media to put dents in McCain's maverick image.)
Josh has perfectly encapsulated the what, but I think he's missed the why. The media don't actively smear Democrats (and tiptoe around Republicans) because the GOP has duped, seduced, or bullied them (although that's a convenient alibi), they do it because their Republican corporate ownership dictates it, whether explicitly or implicitly.
Sure, there are lots of journalists of integrity - Krugman, Froomkin, Pincus, Olbermann, and these people, to name a few - but they're not the ones with the megaphones, they're not the ones dominating our national discourse.
Which is not to say that the media are completely immune to pressure and shaming - they're just a lot more responsive to it when it comes from the boss's team.
(hat tips to Scarecrow, Peterr, TeddySanFran, and Mike Stark)
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CTut!
Reuters reported on it too…
Tap, tap, is this still turned on…? ;-)
There are so many “gotcha” guys out there now that you can’t tell them all without a scorecard. Tim Russert, Chris Matthews, all the Fox News blowhards, especially Chris Wallace, Stephanopolous….to a man they are more interested in their own press than in getting information out to voters. It’s enough to make a political junkie stop watching.
Yeah, even for a Friday it seems a bit slow. Maybe everyone got it out of their system on Wednesday.
Hey Eli!
Clueless or Complicit? Maybe both.
Let’s face it. The uncomfortable truth is that most folks do not want to think. Especially at the end of a long day at work. They just want to be spoon fed. So, naturally, they are the perfect set of sheep for the media to hypnotize.
Daahhh.
srry 4 OT so soon Eli: #9, will read soon.
duggggg :)
Georgie gets to rake Mac over the coals this weekend. I’m sure he’ll be brutal.
Great post, Eli. Loving the use of “Snuffy”!
Very damning:
1) TPM and Will Bunch pointed out that the woman who asked Obama the “Why do you hate the American flag?” question in Wednesday’s debate had already appeared in an NYT story a couple of weeks ago… asking, “How can I vote for a president who won’t wear a flag pin?” As TPM and Bunch point out, it looks an awful lot like ABC actively sought her out because they wanted someone to ask Obama that ridiculous question. Someone who wasn’t Charlie Gibson or Mr. Snuffalupagus.
Maybe, but your post is more of a bigger picture question. At least to me anyway.
I never watch the talking head shows. They’re just too awful. I may have to watch This Week this week though, so I can contrast Snuffy’s treatment of the Democrats with his treatment of McCain.
You have it exactly right.
I’m with demi.
Why do you persist in this either/or mentality? Both/and is much more likely.
Cluelessly complicit — aka, the Sgt Schultz defense — explains things a lot more clearly. “I know nothink!”
Deep Thought for the Day:
How come we never hear a question to a Republican defended with the rationale that it will be used against him by the Democrats?
.
I never watch them, because I’m at work. (Working on the weekend never looked so good.)
Well, I guess for me the real question is “Complicit or not complicit?” If they’re not complicit, then they *have* to be clueless. If they *are* complicit, then the cluelessness can go either way.
How come we never hear a question to a Republican that would even require such a rationale?
Eli, you are an official media pundit. Somebody at the deadwood KC Star (pg. 2), is reading FDL. FireDogLake is cited and you are quoted about the debate.
If he has been listening, he may believe he has to be more aggressive….you know, to appear fair. Maybe.
Ok, read it. Complict!
I think Steven Colbert used Hannity’s bio to make his Colbert Report character.
Damn good question and point! ;-)
“Sean Hannity is the voice of the working class…”
If you woke up and heard that Sean Hannity had appointed himself the spokesperson for your class, wouldn’t you be bitter too?
.
Hee, I saw that. I got quoted a few other places too, but I suspect they were all because Americablog included me in their reaction roundup.
my vote: complict while pretending to be clueless
“One man’s kidney stone . . .”
Priceless!
(I’m a KC person myself, but missed that one. Thanks!)
Eli:
That was one of my intended points.
.
((( ELI )))
I vote for “complicit” … or was it rhetorical ? *g*
All right, that’s settled, then. I’m off.
Yeah, I think it’s a cover.
What scares me is that a lot of Democrats exhibit the same kind of “cluelessness”.
I especially love this one:
“Hot Air’s Ed Morrissey: “Kudos to ABC News for taking on both candidates fearlessly. John McCain has to feel grateful not to be included.”“
In other words, “Phew! John McCain would have had a tough time up there! Kudos to ABC for protecting him from public embarrassment!”.
Bingo!
But they may have overplayed their hand. What if many of those sitting on the fence saw this woman and her obsession and said “You know, that Obama guy is sorta right about some of these folks…that’s really lamebrain”. And then they read that the woman is actually not undecided at all, but a pretty hardened Clinton supporter…and a bit of a nut that fits what Obama is speaking about…people who vote against their own benefit on “red button” issues.
They might actually swing to Obama.
One can hope that at least they’ll examine the issues!
Eli! This is why it is so exciting this week to see everyone taking ABC down. The new tv followers got a chance to realize that the bias is there. Maybe tonight they’re listening to the news a little more closely.
Good post, and a good point about pleasing the corporate bosses.
Allmost politicians have a price, or they wouldn’t be in this game …So I figured.
“Do you prefer puppies or kittens, Mr. Cheney, or do you like them both equally?”
But they never ask about what kind of sauce.
Hi Eli, finally caught one of your posts while it was active. Good points, I think. It just seems so obvious to me that when a few conservatives (Murdoch, Scaife, Sun Yung Moon) own so much of the American news it’s going to have a conservative slant. And yet, this somehow is overlooked in favor of selective outrage at particular instances when the news didn’t bow to the conservative line.
Can’t believe I’m writing this. I sound like a conspiracy theorist. But as someone once said, you don’t need to posit a conspiracy when everyone knows what they’re supposed to do. Your last line really sums that up.
Thanks, CTuttle. I would just love for that to become a meme and to hear someone ask it of a reporter, say Stephanopoulos, the next time they use the lame excuse of “But the Republicans do it!”
.
Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re *not* out to get you.
exactly.
The tightrope that the media must walk, is that they can never give away the game. If the majority of Americans realize that the media are essentially Republican propaganda, they’ll start rolling their eyes and reading between the lines (although possibly not simultaneously).
Or better yet, turning to alternative news sources.
Cheney: kittens’ heads fit in my palm so nicely.
that’s not conspiracy theory - that’s systems analysis
George S. is giving Sesame Street a bad name.
Eli, speaking of kittens, check out one of my bumper stickers:
http://whitenoiseinsanity.word.....-stickers/
LOL
707!!
Nice to see ya, Cujo! And thanks!
It’s why I’m always mystified by the explanation that the news media are just trying to pump up their ratings or circulation. If that were the case, they would have been all over “Manwhore In The White House!” and “President Okayed Torture!” And they just shrugged. The parent corporation’s bottom line is what matters, not the news division’s.
Of course, if they can make money smearing Democrats and distracting from Republicans, that’s great too.
…After he shoots them in the face. You know, for practice.
Great post, Eli! I’m so glad this is still being talked about. Out in tall timber country my chattering classes are mallards and freshly stirring chipmunks so I’ve been a tad out of touch.
But not so out of touch as not to see last night’s Stewart and Colbert. Wowzah.
I vote for clued-in to the corporate, co-opted and corrupted…
Prairie Today: Puttering…”Tough but fair”
LOL Exactly. Or he just eats them alive. Ewwww. He’s Evil. Pure Evil.
you laugh? i was serious.
Hannity didn’t go to college and is a loud mouthed bully.
Were I on the receiving end of these questions I would call them out for the idiots they are and probably refuse to answer any questions which were not substantive.
I would also send a letter to the network or editor and refuse to allow X, Y or Z to interview me. Just cut off the assholes and ignore them. If THAT becomes a story in itself use it to expose the entire idiocy that the MSM has become. Enlist Media Matters to show exactly what a bunch of jerks these people are.
Give more interviews to the REAL journalists like Amy Goodman and LinkTV.
We need to boycott the MSM and the candidates need to do it too and talk back to them and send them a message in no uncertain terms that they will only deal with real journalists. First sign of BS and that journalists is persona non grata.
From The Virgin Mary’s Face in the Pizza Slice Dept:
WaPo headline-
“Holy Cow. Did Obama Give Clinton the Finger?”
True.
Josh’s reasons may be what the media or its milder outside critics tell themselves. But I think you and Deep Throat have it right: follow the money. Take telecoms mergers as analogy, because the template doesn’t apply just to newspapers and broadcast news services.
There were a series of large-scale telco mergers in 2004-06 which went through with relatively genial, if still expensive, review by the DOJ and related agencies, like the FCC. The players involved, from CEOs to their outside antitrust lawyers, made out like bandits. The price for such light-weight oversight may have been a little (paid) help with domestic eavesdropping.
Newspaper owners have something different and equally unique to sell to government. Message control. Owners, like the magnate who recently acquired The Tribune Company, are now either investment bankers or entertainment moghuls. News is an afterthought. They make money putting deals together and in cross-utilization of one group company’s resources by another. Money made running a newspaper is peanuts, though the same rate of return on assets or capital employed would earn an auto manufacturing CEO a gold star from his board.
They make the most money of all supporting a business-can-do-anything-it-wants GOP. Because when they want to do something new — be a foreigner and own lots of media, enter new businesses, or claim ownership of otherwise private data owned by their customers (which they utilize without regulation to make still more money) — Shrub says, “OK. That’s what I’m here for.” What’s a little bent news or an overfed reporter shilling trivia compared with that, I ask you?
If pols want to get a message out, call a press conference and say they have an important announcement. Usually the grunt reporters cover those events anyway.
I would NEVER EVER agree to a debate with any of the clowns they use to ask the questions. Not one of the MSM people INCLUDING Jim Lehrer.
I would love to see that. Obama at least called the moderators on it, which was progress.
Also, bear in mind that if they do that, the media narrative will be “Hillary and/or Obama refuse to answer question about their ties to al Qaeda.”
Why not just ignore the inane “got’cha” question and reply on a topic of real substance, to make the point. Then, when they get all agitated, make the pushback / calling BS tactic explicit for them and the viewing public.
I hate it when you’re serious.
At least we now have video to throw back in their faces when they go after Obama’s bowling and say he is totally inept physically. Check out his basketball skills (and a pretty good interview with Bryant Gumbel).
As to the clueless or complicit question, I have to say clueless with a huge dose of elitist. They appoint themselves the arbiters of what the regular guy thinks, even though the bigger names in the media are multimillionaires and haven’t talked to a regular guy in years.
Factored in is a cluelessness that means that they can’t come up with analysis of their own, and so they become much more of an echo chamber than they accuse the blogosphere of being. Think about the speed with which “bitter” swept through all of the pundits. Once one of them said it, they all had to because they are incapable of independent thought.
‘…if they do that, the media narrative will be “Hillary and/or Obama refuse to answer question about their ties to al Qaeda.”’
____________
So, you preempt by saying right then that that is what the red herring MSM headline will read.
The multi-millionaire talking heads who work for the mutli-billion dollar media megacorps:
In on the game.
Thanks to Cenk for this round of simple answers to simple questions.
And thanks Eli for this great post.
(and thanks to the NWS for the news about possible snow showers north of here Saturday….the tent can wait a few more weeks…)
The connection is:
Business interests are served by republicans who suck up to the wealthy.
The media and their bobbleheads ARE the same as business - they are the wealthy and so they dance with the republicans. What’s good for them is to have republican low tax and wealth and laissez fair polices so they can make more money.
The people are not being well served by their government or the media which is supposed to be a watchdog on government. Instead it is the mouthpiece of government. That’s how we got media consolidation and trashed the fairness doctrine.
All of this is about class warfare or exploitation of working people by the wealthy ne’er do wells.
So was I.
You’ve either got to laugh or cry these days. I prefer to laugh.
Bowling skills?
I would bet that if the media wanted to select a president from this crowd based on their bowling score alone - Obama would win easily over McCain and Hillary.
Anyone wanna bet?
good call.
The working class people who vote republican are doing so against their own self interest. They are screwing themselves for their racist views and association with the wealthy.
Lehrer works for the Republicans. The MSM is complicit. The networks are belong to Republicans. Remember Lehrer in the 2000 “debates”? I do. Unquestionably a right wing tool like Gibson, Snuffalopogus, Russert, Couric, Williams and the rest of the con artists who pose as unbiased journalists. They are worse than O’Reilly and Hannity because they are stealth operators via their perceived credibility.
In McCain’s case, it wouldn’t be fair. Thanks to his stay in Hanoi, he can’t lift his arms above his shoulders. Hillary might surprise us, though.
Yep.
The news media have largely become corporatized, with profit interests that run directly counter to being independent pursuers and communicators of truth.
Sounds good to me. Another approach which I think would have been a huge success would have been to appeal to the audience.
“Who here wants to hear some *real* questions?” would have gotten HUGE applause.
How does ANY republican policy or initiative serve the needs of the working class or the middle class? Name one which even remotely advances their well being.
Who here wants Eli to moderate the next debate?
Nice post. Just one thing that struck me:
Sure, there are lots of journalists of integrity - Krugman, Froomkin, Pincus, Olbermann,
Krugman has integrity on economic issues, but he has been anti-Obama on virtually every front (not just his legitimate beef about his health care policies), with no apparent attempt at balance – and without his usual rigor. Given his absolute consistency in attacking Barack and supporting Hillary, I regard his arguments for same with some suspicion.
So I still read him religiously on policy, but I skip his take on (Democratic) politics. There’s enough people that are up to their necks in intra-party partisanship. Shame that Krugman has gone their too – would have liked him to stay above the fray.
(and let’s not even mention where Joe Wilson has gone - boy, have I ever lost respect for him!)
Count me in.
Both hands in the air.
(Hey, Loo Hoo, gonna be here later? I wanna talk to you about a single sex education story I heard about.)
both hands raised.
and i want his partner to be amy goodman.
I’m tellin’ ya. What do you have to lose in such a circumstance? Just call bullshit pointedly and snarkily right there, and go right to talking about stuff of policy substance, while the “moderators” get all in a huffy snit. Don’t let them frame the “debate.”
Szasz wryly observed “The law of the jungle is ‘eat or be eaten.’ The law of civilization is ‘define or be defined.’“
”Oh, and do you know Snuffy has on This Week this week? Why, John McCain, of course. Will he ask McCain whether he had an affair with a lobbyist, or (as Mike Stark suggests) about how he dumped his first wife for a newer, richer model? No, of course not. ”
ok, bullhorn one more time…….
c’mon, let’s load that bale of hay, just a few more and we can sit on the porch sippin’ homemade lemonade and be proud of our work, and have a barn full of feed.
write the cretin–send george stephanopolis with what you want asked. here is the submission form, right at your furry fdl pup paws.
http://abcnews.go.com/Site/page?id=3428174
i keep sayin’ a letter written to the point, with a fact or quote or two, is all that is needed.
why do you think i keep on saying that??????
cuz maybe it works.
my uncle, who worked for the guggenheim institute, taught me that……. he wrote letters outside of the field of his expertise, got answers back. he wrote them all in the same tone, persistent, passionate, informed, and right with facts.
write the godd@mn letters. just write them. innundate them with them, the same freakin’ facts, then new facts, then newer facts…..same consistent source, YOU, that is found when you CONSISTENTLY write them with valid information………..they recognize you after you consistently provide factual information.
if i said examples, then that would be into vanity, and i’m not one who is going to do that.
write the letters.
it works, it really does. just write.
*ding*
Egregious, where do I stand to caucus for that?
Guys like Lehrer are so isolated from working people and reality that they can only think as a person of wealth and means and so they are think like their class and their class is served by republican and right wing ideology. They can’t even see their own bias; most people can’t and most like Lehrer will say they are fair minded.
Money in the hands of a few has really screwed the working class because the few have all the power and the working class refuses to fight back.
Agree with one caveat. There are not a lot of them. There are a handful of them by comparison to the status quo.
I really like Krugman, but his column today made me cringe. And Olbermann is perhaps a little more anti-Hillary than he should be. But at least they’re willing to call out Bush and the GOP when no-one else will. But yeah, I would rather that they had not so obviously chosen sides.
And Jeremiah Wright is to be Moyers’ guest next week.
Selise!
Jinx. Same time stamp, but I was first, so I believe you owe me a diet coke.
Joe Wilson IS a republican who got shafted by republicans. His not a progressive. He’s an elitest right winger and his wife was a spy, albeit it a pretty one who git shafted by Rove, but a spy nevertheless.
Progressive don’t need spooks who won’t repudiate the agency when it does bad and it does bad a lot.
I like how they invite questions for the guests, but that’s not actually one of the dropdown categories…
what about adding Eugene Robinson to the journalists with integrity?
Fur sure? Next, not tonight?
I won’t miss that one.
Should be really good.
I know for a fact, Obama would beat me at bowling. LOL
Okay, here’s mine:
Can you ask Senator McCain his thoughts on the president’s admission that he authorized his principals to orchestrate interrogation methods that most people consider torture?
You could ask him if he experienced any of those techniques first-hand, and whether he would consider them torture. If so, please ask him whether he would appoint a special prosecutor to hold the president and his principals accountable.
Obama looked very presidential calling them out too. They almost forgot that he could well be the next president.
They are cut off if he is. Just like FOX.
Lets focus on what ABC was to afraid to ask until the end if at all the War, the Economy, was Healthcare even mentioned?
This smear campaign is a distraction because McCain’s answers will not poll well with Americans while Hilary’s and Obama’s answers would.
Charlie’s talk about the Capital Gains taxes shows his bias and his removal from reality after all the Bush tax cuts have had how many years to work their magic?
We need to ask Charlie and George the moron bothers a question when adjusted for inflation just how much higher is the Stockmarket under Bush than it was at the Clinton peak?
If the stockmarket is indeed higher at all (depends if its good day).
Seven approaching eight years of Bush and the invisible hand of the market is struggling to get a little higher than Bill’s shadow!
I’m not a big Olbermann fan… other than it’s a good thing to have at least one show host who isn’t totally owned by the Republicans. Some of his attacks on Hillary have been really over-the-top, bordering on misogyny. (That from someone tired of all of the overblown accusations of sexism following any criticism of her).
Rachel Maddow on the other hand – awesome!
can i get you something other than a coke?
after all, coke is the drink of the death squads.
Because then they can say he was afraid to answer the question.
No argument here. I was trying to keep the list short, so I left a lot of people off. Dahlia Lithwick, Rachel Maddow, Bob Herbert, Murray Waas, Seymour Hersh, Dana Priest…
thanks for the heads up on McCain’s appearance on This Week. I will read the transcript. I will not watch ABC anymore. I will go to their website and download transcripts, and note who is advertisint there and write the sponsors that they will never have my business because they are associating themselves with an unprofessional and unethical corporation.
I am trying to think of what kinds of questions George Stephafraudulus should ask McCain in order to resotroe balance.
But, not sure that is right way to go, because even to do that is to play a loser game with the GOP. Every single thing about the ABC Pennsylvania debate is poisonous to our democratic system, except for the boos and catcalls the audeince threw towards the incomptent and unprofessional moderators at the end.
I will think a bit and see of if some decent tough questions for McCain come to mind that are relevant to his performance in office. Some will arrive, I just want to filter out garbage. I mean, Stephacredulus could ask McCain if he is not patriotic because he has appeared in public without a flag lapel pin, but that kind of thing is a road I do not want to go down.
Here’s a question for McCain:
Are you going to pursue a “Strong Dollar Policy” like Bush, and have the dollar drop 40% in your presidency too?
I do!
selise, thanks for that great pick-up re coke: drink of the death squads.
why am i thinking of small stickers and viral outreach campaigns?
“What would you have done differently the last 8 years?” might be an interesting one.
McBu’ush is now on the record unequivocally (Matthew’s Hardball College Tour) as saying “the United States should never torture anyone in our custody.”
“Anyone.” It, then, simply remains to probe as to what he considers “torture.” Fairly short list of obvious tactics that shouldn’t take much yes/no response time.