Didn’t ever think that congress was gonna defund the war didja?

yo

Siun! Erdla paid a visit to M&C today!

the ultimate goal of al qaeda, bankrupt us.

Opening soon in Baghdad: Largest U.S. embassy in the world with restaurants, 619 apartments 18 Apr 2008 A Kuwait contractor [using slave labor] has concluded the construction of the U.S. embassy in Baghdad. On April 14, the State Department issued a certificate of acceptance for the 104-acre, 27 building compound. The $474 million facility is the largest U.S. embassy in the world, with 619 apartments for staffers as well as restaurants, indoor and outdoor basketball courts, volleyball court, and indoor Olympic-size swimming pool. [See: ‘Kidnapped’ Filipinos build US embassy 05 Aug 2007 An American civilian contractor has described scenes of panic and hysteria last year as Filipino construction workers were told that they were on a plane bound for Baghdad rather than Dubai. Passengers jumped out of their seats screaming in protest until a gun-toting air steward ordered them to sit down, claimed Rory Mayberry, an emergency medical technician travelling on the same flight. Mayberry said the men were “kidnapped” to build America’s luxurious new embassy in Baghdad’s green zone.]

http://www.legitgov.org/

oops hit enter button before I finished

the ultimate goal of al qaeda, bankrupt us but the good news for them is that they don’t have to do it. Just elect an asswipe and his cronies and they will do all the work for you

Siun, the ’some of them’ linky went to a “page not found”…

We’re gonna be in Iraq through the Clusterfuck presidency and for at least another two years no matter WHO wins the presidency….

meanwhile back at home, gas prices have jumped, jobless claims are up, food stamp use is up, food prices are up, supplies of jobs are low, food supply is low….

fucked up priorities

Rahmy’s earned his award, that’s for sure. Loved that Moon of Alabama article, BTW, Siun. Saved me having to think up how to express my own anger.

Should add that I think Rahm should show some of that skin himself by advocating increased immigration quotas for Iraqis displaced by the war.

Head/desk.
What a way to word something as stupidly as is humanly possible.

Two wars we’re losing, an economy in the tank because we let the financial world play fast and loose with the truth and then ship our manufacturing infrastructure overseas, and a population that can’t handle elementary algebra or a syllogism.

Gonna be a great time, eh?

Our treatment of Iraqi refugees reminds me of our ignoring the Jewish refugees during WWII where we ignored evidence of the Holocaust as “not credible” although in this case we are the culprit and the savior. Guess where our compassionate conservative neocons have sided? (They are brown and Islamic, potential terrorists!

Shame on us.

Dear Iraq..this bomb is for you. Bill ya later alligator.

Your being facetious right? Rahm has serious issues with Hispanic immigrants, why would he advocate expanding the Iraqi immigrants rates…?

And much like our treatment of Japanese Americans during WWII, we take the “safe” course and alienate some of the people best equipped to help us.

Emmanuel is another one of those people with a D behind their name that I very seriously consider to be needing to be watched like a fox in a hen house.
Sometimes he gives me a serious case of the liebermans.

It’s one of the reasons I figure it would constitute “skin”. He’d have to have real political courage to propose it. And no, I don’t expect him to. Read the link I provided. I think it’s pretty clear I think Rahm Emmanuel is a sad excuse for a human being.

I wonder if he was trying to be hip and use the word Skin like they do in golf, for money?

i think that they have an antibiotic for that

Possibly, but he should be equally aware that many of us use it to describe politicians who are willing to send other people’s kids to war.

Yep, seems to me that we elected them to defund the war.

Anything that strong probably kills anthrax, too.

must show you 2 guys better looking than scrawny Obama/

http://blogs.abcnews.com/photo…..rove_4.jpg

Gotta look at the mission statement again. I’m pretty sure I meant “get us out of the war”.

this is, of course, no accident. The plan transparently has been to drain as much wealth as possible out of our economy, while transforming us into a 3rd world economy. Much better to have a permanent poverty line class, meth-ridden battlezone cities, etc — so convenient for staffing the mercenary enforcers, ensuring that workers don’t get restless etc. And congress plays right along making sure the fund-drain goes right into the pockets of halliburton, etc.

You certainly can’t accuse Rove of being scrawny.

We did. But I think one of the secrets that our elected officials are keeping from us is that Little Boots promised them that if they did attempt to de-fund the occupation, he would allow the folks in Irak to run out of food, ammunition, supplies, etc just so he could make a political point about how Dems could not be trusted.

And they recognize that he is psychotic enough to follow through on the threat.

this is really crazy, bush gets to play cowboy on the backs of us and the next president

I’m surprised Siun didn’t mention this in her post…

BAGHDAD – Followers of anti-U.S. Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr denounced the American military’s construction of a concrete wall through their Sadr City stronghold in Baghdad, the scene of renewed clashes Friday between his militiamen and U.S. and Iraqi troops.

spew alert, please!

Fixed link – which goes here:
http://www.reuters.com/article…..SN17172641

And she and I are visiting Firedoglake right now.

Fatima Jameel

Well, given that the Iraqi folks in Iraq have no food, medicine, water, electricity or freedom, guess they’re succeeding.

Not to mention our ignoring the Palestinian refugees for the last 40 years or so. Plus many of the Iraqi refugees are in Syria, a country with which we have such great relations. Smart, eh?

Welcome Fatima and Erdla – it’s an honor to have you both here.

This seems analogous to the Chinese billing a prisoner’s family for the bullet used in the execution. Good idea, Rahm, what’s the market price of a JDAM these days?

You’re correct. I was thinking of the US types (troops etc) over there, showing my US centric bias but yeah, the whole thing is a total clusterf*ck run by the supreme clusterf*ck.

Tell her I admire atheists too! And I respect her all the more for it! 8-)

As I do not admire atheists I will leave you to do that for yourself :-)

Fatima Jameel

Honored

hi siun and pups–edteller said he and howie are looking for recent articles about rahm’s PAC –our common values, so if anyone has anything, he’s looking for it. he wasn’t more specific than that.

i wonder what it is we don’t know that is going on here. i wish reps and sens had to make statements about individual issues and post them, so we can see what’s going on. it’s not making sense lately, more confusing than it already was.

need to get a few plants in the ground, bbl.

====

i had a great comment about raum’s ’skin in the game’ remark but it keeps getting yanked, so, i’ll just say it differently this time and see if it goes through, although i like the original comment better. cuz it’s what we’re doing….i’ve seen worse posted, so, dunno.
we’ve circumsized the iraqis already, now we’re goin’ for the neuter. (did i clean it up enough? if not, delete the last part, i even separated it to make it easy.)

Tell her I admire atheists too!

Why, thank you. Not so many folks do in this country.

Touche! ;-)

“skins” ain’t money- they’re holes where you have the lowest score of your group- no ties.

You make an excellent point, as usual.

IMHO, however, we’re past that. A lot of our cash is going to the militias. Pulling back forces them to find other funding sources. Militarily, the occupation is untenable.

Marine at check point outside of Baghdad

Also we can’t afford it.

If the people of the Middle East have any sense of a Dem versus a thug (I doubt they do), they’ll associate Dems with getting US forces out.

We have much greater leverage if we pull out. No one will want us to come back. Keeping a brigade or two out in the desert, out of combat zones, seems like a nice compromise.

Always good to see Gorilla’s Guides.

Looks like someone started a new article already.

I wonder how Iraqis would see a difference when they pass the same blank checks?

Then again, I also think that since Iraq belongs to the Iraqis, we have no right to be there let alone leave anyone there.

Can I just point out as an Iraki that the more impoverished America and Americans become the better it is for me and for every other person in my country and for every other person with brown skin who lives in a country that has something your ruling class wants to steal. And before anyone asks yes I am a Muslim, and yes I am a Sadrist.

Fatima Jameel

(There is breaking news on the Primary – Jane’s just added that as it came through – but we can also continue here if people like)

Wrong analogy, I remember something back when my brain still worked when skins equaled money.

This is a great read from a link over at GorillaGuides:

http://nonarab-arab.blogspot.c…..ashes.html

Can’t argue with that .
They stole anything that wasn’t nailed down here long ago.
We don’t like them either.

ZoSO

It may not matter, Jane. I think that the woman with the flag-pin comment may have gotten enough Pennsylvanians to ask…”am I really like that”?

Ironically, by putting her on it actually confirmed to many people (and I’m sure a lot of “middle Ground Pennsylvanians” just how right Obama was. Some people ARE so resentful that unable to sort out their issues…and instead of enunciating real ones…get caught up in phony “hot-button” ones.

CTuttle – I’ll be doing my usual wrapup on Sunday and will definitely be talking about the wall – and the continued seige that the people of Sadr City are being forced to live under.

hahahahaahahahahahaha

I think you’re wrong for two reasons

First, if America gets more desparate for resources, things will get worse for those of you who have them, not better,

and second, when we’re gone there will be someone else to take our place.

I don’t blame you one Iota, I just disagree with the your first premise… Sadly, our imperialist Prez has made it all but a certainty…

Huh? What happened there?…I was commenting on Jane’s next post about Hillary and MoveOn…and got booted back here through a space-time wormhole!

I guess Jane pulled it in deference to Siun…! ;-0

slight timing glitch … pretend you never saw it

I was presented with a “piss off” message that said I couldn’t comment on a draft article. Looks like it was published by mistake.

yea i was in the matrix…..wo

I’m sorry Dave, I can’t let you do that.

—–Hal——

Off topic, but somewhat related:

Speaking of skin in the game, Lance Dutson is Sen. Susan Collins’ Internet Director and there’s a rumor flying around that Lance’s wife is cheating on him:

http://lancedutson.wordpress.c…..omment-119

Poor baby. /snark

It certainly seems to be a tactic imported from out of the Likud playbook…! 8-(

It was declassified, then reclassified…

So … I know it feels hopeless but I am hoping folks will let their congresscritters know this is unacceptable.

Can Congressman Murtha and his pals really be stupid enough not to realize that if they vote extra money, Bush will still spend it all and then come asking for more in the middle of the election?

There was a really cool looking window that popped up when I tried to post that said I couldn’t comment on a draft. LOL I was like, “Doh”.

oh Siun…i first posted the skin in the game comment here….he is another sick littlepr****k,wall street master of the universe……..gawwwwwwwww i hate the people

Bill Moyers is doing a story about reporting in Sadr City tonight on PBS.

hahahhahahaahaha

and TWEETY is brain dead sorry mods

Awesome, Moyers is top-notch…!

Siun,
That video is amazing, it’s simple and effective,
and the clear message delivered.

i really can not stomach tee bee snooze

thanks for the heads up LS

So let’s see: Not only is there no consideration of cutting off George’s blank checks, Congress also wants to make sure that the next president (whoever that may be) doesn’t need to come to Congress with a plan to leave Iraq before writing them their own blank check.

does this leave any doubt that the D majority congress we worked so hard for never had any intention of ending the war?

and that it looks like neither do our presidential candidates?

yep– he’s a Clinton backer extraordinaire and I don’t think he really wants an end to the war(s). Sadly.

Great post Siun, and welcome to Fatima and Erdla and many thanks to all of you at GG.

In a word, no. Why they are doing it is an interesting question, but you’d have to be a drooling idiot not to have worked out the pattern by now.

Bill Clinton called Obama Senator from Punjab?

is this a Maccaca moment?

As it’s my people being slaughtered by yours without any justification other than your country’s unfortunate habit of waging genocidal wars in what you refer to as “third world” country’s I have a more personal “take” on this than you. Moreover I see no reason why your civilian population should not suffer the results of their war.

did he say that?

and second, when we’re gone there will be someone else to take our place.

IMHO, Iraq will be a “failed state” for at least the next twenty years. Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are just using it as a buffer against Iran and vice versa. The same way France for centuries used Germany and Poland as a buffer against the Russians.

i have been 1000% against this war,and most all others………Im so very,very sorry,that the LUNATICS took over the asylum…..they are most evil…so very sorry

I thought that it was Obama that called HRC the Senator from Punjab…

we are self destructing

i just got the tail end…so that was a joke?

Do you have any advice for us on how to make american democracy work towards ending the slaughter of the people in your country?

Fatima … a very important point. It always seems that we in the west and particularly in the US feel that there are no consequences for our actions. Yet we have allowed our government to spend … how many billions? to destroy your country … but we think we should continue to lead the life of comfort.

While I do not wish suffering on myself or my fellow citizens, I have no right to claim comfort when I have not stopped your suffering.

GOOD that will stop you destructing other peoples’ children.

Fatima Jameel

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/6/15/0634/74618

There was something up next about Hillary & MoveOn, but it seems to have been yanked off.

Bob in HI

Fatima Jameel:

Is there any news you can share with is about conditions now in Iraq? We try to provide updates from GorillasGuides and Iraqi sources but I would be interested to hear your own account.

Who will there to take your place is Irakis. I find it infuriating the way westerners pretend that a country that was unified long before they were will collapse just because their detestable and completely unwelcome presence is ended.

Now I know how the Germans felt after Hitler. Collective guilt has been the price we pay for surrendering our democracy to Fascists. I am so sorry.

We can only atone by the example of Jimmy Carter, yet our present leaders have an agenda and no conscience.

Not quite. Barack Obama accused Hillary Clinton of being the “Senator from Punjab”:

According to an unsigned document that Obama’s campaign released on Friday, Hillary Clinton is not the senior Democratic Senator from New York. She is, apparently, the sole Democratic Senator from Punjab.

I seem to recall that Clinton had called herself this once as well, but I can’t find a source.

I can only talk about al-Shula where I live. No electricity, no water, very little food getting through. The Badr brigade death squads are back.

Me too!! I will add that it is exactly how I feel about the current Administration in our country…I’m worried they will continue to occupy “us” too.

You are probably right, but I hope you are wrong. There’s nothing to stop the new president from withdrawing immediately. The right says there will be chaos, but they said the same thing about Vietnam. Remember the domino theory. Arabs are not Vietnamese. They seem to live for revenge, so the aftermath will not be pleasant, but hopefully even arabs have common sense. If not we will have to wait until it gets sorted out. I cannot stand when GWB rails against terrorism while we decimated a country. You have a friend like the US, you don’t need enemies.

oh dear god,i love children,i love all your children ,and pets and flowers andd trees and art…im an art historian….im so VERY SORRY,and whatever i can do to help…i shall

I can only talk about al-Shula where I live and that was two days ago before I left Irak for this trip. No electricity, no water, very little food getting through. The Badr brigade death squads are back.

Could we leave presidential back and forths out for a few minutes (esp since it seems we will be discussing them later)?

With our guests – Fatima Jameel and Erdla – I’d be more interested in learning about what’s happening in Iraq from someone who knows firsthand.

ive gone without electricity for 2 weeks after the hurricane……..its horrendous,i CANT EXPRESS MY SORROW AND GRIEF FOR YOU…i dont know what to do

Are the Badr brigades associated with SCIRI…?

I see no evidence of that.

Ho Chi Minh threw our ass out of South Viet Nam. 50,000 dead US soldiers. Sunni’s, Shiites, and Kurds have not been able to unify against the US occupation.

Yes

The Badr death squads are the ones led by Cheney and Bush’s good friends, am I right? the ones we fund as part of the “green zone government”?

I’d be more interested in learning about what’s happening in Iraq from someone who knows firsthand.

yes please.

i’m not commenting, only because i have nothing to say. but i very much appreciate hearing from Fatima Jameel and Erdla.

Do you know for sure who is behind the death squads?? Who is funding them? Also, what could you say about the so-called Al Qaeda in Iraq? Who are they really…if anybody at all?

not me…..ive been VEHEMENTLY AGAINST ALL OF IT FROM MOMENT one…i cried durring shock and awe…and yet

What?!!!

The Senator From Punjab? What’s that supposed to mean?

I know he’ll find some convoluted way to spin that comment…but it’ll require a great deal of contortionism and pretzel logic.

This from the guy that brought NAFTA to fruition…who pushed free (but not fair) trade throughout his Presidency…who allowed the flood of off-shoring to start?

people said i was wrong….i spent time in Punjab…i dont know what is going on

What is Muqtada al Sadr up to right now? With so much support he seems to have, why does he not make his move? He seems to be waiting for something to happen. What is this something? Sadr seems like a strong leader and has the people’s interests in his heart. It would be interesting to hear from an Iraqi what it would take for Sadr to become the leader of Iraq which I think is inevitable.

No, Obama accused Hillary of it. So it’s perfectly understandable and OK./SNARK

Boo, that’d be because of the puppet govt. we’re supporting is doing everything to keep them apart, Sadr is the only viable contender that is trying to unify them…!

Me too, and I was against the First “Gulf War” and the war in Afghanistan and the Occupation of Palestine.

We are the stupidest nation on earth.

I am dreadfully sorry.

1,816 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Cujo:

Again you exhibit a special talent for blatherin’ on over the expressions of ideas for which you have no capacity to understand…if GorillasGuides is indeed legit, you should open your ears and keep your mouth shut. This is someone from the fuckin’ country we have invaded and represents an attitude and view that is representative of those who have suffered the most from our very deadly kind of imperialism for lo these last 5 or 6 decades!

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION IF YA DON’T KNOW WHERE TA SHOOT!!

Jesus H. keeeRIST, Cujo, this is not the first time you have tried ta impose an understanding of somethin’ that you know nuthin’ about on to someone who has lived it. What the fuck is wrong with you??!!

I suspect Gorilla Guides, that we Americans, civilians will ’suffer’. Not as your people, whom we owe a thosand years of apology and ‘compensation’, have suffered, and not as much as we deserve, but we Americans are about to ‘pay the piper’ …

And, guess what? We’ve not the intelligence or resourcefulness of your people; we are fat, we are stupid and we’ve been ‘had’.

I know that is little comfort, and yours and the rest of the worlds oppressed people would be well within your rights, in terms of any ‘justice’ whatsoever to refuse us when we come begging to you for help.

My apologies. I meant to reply to our Iraqi guests. So sorry. JC

An article from Gareth Porter tells us:

The British polling firm ORB, which has been doing opinion surveys in Iraq since 2005, found in March that 69 percent of respondents in the south believed security would improve if foreign troops were withdrawn, and only 10 percent believed it would get worse.

I would love to find a way to make US leaders understand this point. Do you think the rest of Iraq feels the same way?

you are correct

While you are here, have you watched any telivised news cast from our putrid Media?
We are not allowed to see or hear what is actually taking place in your country.The media refuses to show or tell us what is happening!
All we see is the officially condoned propaganda that tells us nothing.
It is infuriating and it is done by the ruling class to keep us citizens from throwing them all in prisonimmediately.
We can not even get the media to acknowledge our own president signed off and condones TORTURE!

Norskeflamethrower, I was answering their statements, not what was in the backs of their minds. You will notice I’ve made no response to their response, because that sentiment is understandable.

I think that if people are reluctant to speak their minds, then we won’t learn a damn thing about each other. So please, stop blathering.

So, the New World Order would be fine with you? LOL Sorry, but if America becomes a 3rd World country it would weaken the rest of the world, wouldn’t it? We have madmen currently running our nation who like the idea of being the King’s of Planet Earth & the Universe. See? That’s not good for anyone.

Personally, a weakened republican party would be a better way to protect the Iraqi people. See?

i seriously am at a loss for what WE can do…the Germans liked Hitler in the beggining…the left knew what chimpy was…but OUR FILTHY STINKING MEDIA has blood all over their hands…yea CHARLIER DIPSHIT GIBSON i mean you!!!!!!

Agree 100%.

As liberals, we can’t even get the next round of funding cut from $178 billion to $107 billion.

I’d like to see us completely out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Unfortunately, it’s not going to happen.

Oh really? I am Sunni, as is my husband. We live in a “Shia” area and the two orrphanages we run get their money equally from the Sadrists and a Sunni charitable foundation. Both of us are Sadrists. That is not an uncommon situation in Irak. You are very conveneiently forgetting that the JAM has excellent relations with some of the more active sections of the so-called “Sunni” resistance and that JAM fighters fought alongside the so-called “Sunni” resistance in Fallujah, Hit, Ramadi ….

As to the Kurds – they are I told by our Kurdish members increasingly unhappy with the KRG and the Peshmerga.

Actually, the Bush family, the Cheney family, and the rest of the GOP should suffer the consequences of their actions.

What part of the word “enemy” do you not understand?

Citizen Cujo:

Stop spinnin’ long enough to listen to what someone else is sayin’…(sigh) I’m afraid this is an admonition which will be heard only by your deaf ears!

Yes – and this system apparently does not like me saying “yes” more than once

please anything i can help with in the orphanages…I TRULY lovr children,i will send as much as i can,leave me an email if you can

with the recent rlease of prisoners in Iraq I think we, here in the U.S., would have a better time of it talking to Iraqi politicians to get work progressing.

This is another area we have failed you, wrt our media.

Jane, Siun and everyone else at FDL have been fighting this battle for years. People in America have no idea about how bad it is. US Senators such as McCain, Lieberman, and Graham keep telling the media that there’s “progress.”

The enemy: GEORGE BUSH, DICK CHENEY. Any questions? They’re the ones who were talking about attacking Iraq in the 1990’s and in 2001. Attacking your nation had nothing to do with 9/11, but they used that an excuse to get in there.

People in America have no idea about how bad it is
——————–
picture the London Blitz for 6 years!

What is the real story about this wall in Sadr City?

I am in Europe not the USA in any event why would why I be interested in American media reprorts those I have seen are mostly warmed over propaganda from your military.

I think one of the worst attributes of our western media is the fact they keep reporting Sadr as Anti-American and a leader of thugs and criminals… Granted, he is Anti-American, but, that doesn’t necessitate the slander they heap on him…!

is there away to set up relief for the kids?

They sure had a lot of help from Congress and the American people…

There are two ways we can help Iraqi children (besides fighting to end this horror):

1- give to Islamic Relief’s Orphan fund here
note that Islamic Relief has a top Charity Navigator rating and is very reliable

2- give to the Iraq Red Crescent by selecting Iraq in the pull down menu here

Somebody just put up a link to stuff a year ago where, after the Clintons put their blind-trust into cash it was discovered that some of it was invested in a Punjabi caller-advice center.

This isn’t something that has “just happened”. It’s OLD…OLD…OLD.

Second, Obama’s campaign did refer to Clinton as Clinton (D-Punjab) in it’s press release on it. But that was to indicate that she had money invested in a call center abroad. It’s a bit extreme to suggest she was aware of it…but at the same time I think that a trust could have been created, quite legally, with only domestic investments. My 201K has a wide range of “blind” investments that allows me to allow or deny “international investments”, bonds, certain types of stocks, etc.

Probably didn’t know…but could have been avoided…as could have investments in Media-related stocks.

I’d also suggest that calling Obama this would be based on no reason…which is what surprised me. If Obama had been heavily invested in firms in Berlin it would be acceptable to call him Herr Obama. Or in Colombia, given his opposition to the Columbia Free Trade Agreement, “Bogata” Barack would be apropos.

The enemy is the government and people of the United States of America who are waging war against my people. I see no difference NONE between the imperialist party called the republicans and the imperialist party called the democrats.

NONE.

I would love to be wrong.

It’s not worth anything, but I apologize from the bottom of my heart for what my country has done to yours.

As I said above, liberals can’t even cut funding for the occupation. The thing that is going to get out us out of the Middle East is that our economy is tanking.

FWIW, I don’t believe in apologies. I believe in restitution. I know of know way we can make up to you the damage we’ve done.

My point exactly.
300 million people in this country have absolutely no idea what it is like for you and your countrymen.
That is why we are trying to GET that information from you while you are here.

He is an Iraki nationalist by definition that makes him anti-American – so am I.

I know of know way we can make up to you the damage we’ve done.

I know of no way we can make up to you the damage we’ve done

oh

They are trying to split the place into secotors so that they can control it.

There’s scarcely any difference to see, really. The people in Congress who seem ready to end the war are a small minority. The only good thing you can say about Democrats is that most of the minority are from that party.

Fatima Jameel – are the air strikes continuing?

The horror of trying to fake “success” for the “surge” by simply bombing your homes is just overwhelming.

we have been lied to OVER,and OVER and OVER again,ive marched,faxed,blogged…we re UNDER A FASCIST SEIGE ourselves…its horrible,again im so very sorry

GorillaGuides, any chance of getting a reply to my post@117 and Teddy’s @ 141? I am very interested in your opinions. Thank you.

Siun, is Jane’s story coming up soon ?

They’re going crazy over the headline at HuffPo and DailyKos …

I know of no way we can make up to you the damage we’ve done

Sadly, I’m afraid you’re right. All we can really do is try.

truth and reconciliation…and lots of RESTITUTION

Patience, Cricket…! ;-)

They are trying to split the place into secotors so that they can control it.

Are the sectors set up according to any political or ethnic lines, or is it simply that they try to keep everyone from getting around too easily?

Personally, a weakened republican party would be a better way to protect the Iraqi people. See?

i suspect that iraqis remember the bombing and econocomic blockade of the clinton years – even if we don’t.

There is no story there? I keep clicking on the headline to read it but it brings me back to the headline page and no story and no quick read.

HuffPo has it as their top headline, but the link has been removed. It’s near the top on DKos as well …

ok im very ,very frustrated and sad,i praying for a new administration,or i shall leave the country of my birth

imho, nothing is more important than the war(s) we are waging against innocents.

nothing.

Well, you’re wrong. OUR GOVERNMENT IS TO BLAME and 2/3s of the American people currently are not. We liberals/progressives on this blog have been part of the small majority of Americans who have felt your pain every day and we’ve been ashamed of our government and what it’s done to your country. Luckily, over the past year or so, a larger majority now exists and that’s because the truth is slowly leaking out.

We’re on your side and understand your rage. Trust me. We do.

agreed@#$%^#$%^&*(argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fatima is writing her replies in Arabic Khaled and I then translate them. This takes time.

All three, though I’m least optimistic about the latter. Incredible as it might seem, there will be lots of folks here who wonder why.

Good point, but all of this started under the Ronnie Reagan years. Clinton did some atrocious things too to the Iraqis, but nothing compared to the Bush Family & Friends.

Ding.

They’ve been under attack for 20 years.

Depleted uranium…how do you fix that? How do you make up for that?

I’m heartbroken for Irak.

Kay … many of us here are very distressed and horrified …but our “pain” is nothing compared to that of Fatima and her sisters and brothers in Iraq.

nothing

thank you,this horror needs to end

I think when US munitions are being dropped on you and your infrastructure has been destroyed, all Americans look pretty much the same.

Erdla, Khaled and Fatima … I cannot thank you enough for the work you do to get the word out … today and everyday.

you and i discuss it almost EVERYDAY …………….sigh

Jane, please put this story up, HuffPo and DKos viewers are anxious to learn more.

Are you being deliberately stupid? Sadr city is controlled by Jaish Al-Mahdi, it is solidly pro-Sadrist and solidly anti-American. Do you think that JUST FOR A FEW SECONDS YOU COULD SHUT THE FUCK UP AND START LISTENING?

Don’t rush. I for one am very grateful, one human being to another.

Believe me, I know that. Just today I was talking to one of my customers. Here and I were both in the area of a horrific car crash that happened a couple days ago. She saw the accident right after it had happened and I came upon it as the smashed vehicles were being towed away. My point? Both of us were traumatized by what we had seen and I said to her today, “Can you imagine what it must be like for the Iraqis who are going about their business and are dying in similar fashion? It’s not right!”.

Another generation of traumatized Iraqis will emerge and our nation will continued to be hated. Rightly so.

that one can make the argument that one set of atrocities is somewhat less than another’s does, in no way, absolve the lesser atrocity.

it is to our shame if we do not hold our party responsible for their own atrocities. and i think it is very wrong to lecture our guests about what they know best.

well said.

Seconded.

Cheney and Rumsfield had been planning for years to take ITRAQs oil,and that is the truth…they got it by HOOK and CROOK…they belong in hell

Uncle Sam is broke. He has already spent almost every dollar of this weeks tax day windfall. Usually the Treasury doesn’t have to do any new borrowing of consequense for a month or more after tax day. Not this year. He might have to come to the market next week for some spending money.

In case you missed it we just set a record deficit for the first half of a fiscal year. For the last month tax receipts, mostly withholdings, have fallen in absolute terms. While for the first half of the year tax payments were up 2% those positive numbers stopped in March. Spending was up 5% from a year ago. The lack of taxes coming in is partly what forced the Treasury to pre borrow the tax day windfall.

Then comes the tax rebate next month. Every penny of the $140 billion will have to be borrowed. Then comes the war supplement. Another $50 billion or so this fiscal year.

Then come the bailouts and implied bailouts on the docket. SallieMae is dead so the Education Department is going to backstop new loans for the fall. Then there is all the mortgage stuff the congress critters are talking about backstopping. Who know when the next big bank or investment bank will need saving. You get the picture. Uncle Sam is broke and just this week the world started to notice. If it contines to notice then the next big shoe to drop in the financial crisis will be at hand. Stay tuned to news about interest rates rising. That will be the tell.

sorry Iraq,im so fuming angry

I’m not lecturing anyone. I’m talking. Is that okay to do? I see your guest is telling people to fucking shut up. Was that nice? Does that sound like a Muslim to you?

Erdla, Khaled and Fatima … I cannot thank you enough for the work you do to get the word out … today and everyday.

yes. many, many thanks. and many apologies for whatever we do to make your time here more difficult than it needs to be.

May I take that argument up for a moment? I don’t even agree with it. This is supposed to be our government. There was more I could have done than just write and phone my representatives. That’s probably true of many of us. The politicians didn’t do what we wanted them to – they still aren’t, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that many of us never bothered to be informed about this thing to begin with. Many more did, but either ignored their own doubts or went along.

You can’t say you’re free and yet not accept some blame for this. I sure can’t. Of all the generations, mine should have known better than to let this happen. Yet we did.

they are beyond enraged…THEY HAVE LOST EVERYTHING i can understand…i can

kay – they are all of our guests. i’m begging you to treat them with the respect they deserve. we at least owe them that.

Another generation of traumatized Iraqis will emerge and our nation will continued to be hated. Rightly so.

How not?

My grandchildren’s, grandchildren, will teach their grandchildren to hate America for what she has done to us. Never ever ever will I, or they, forget or forgive what your barbaric country has done to us.

i did not….Im one little person…but i never shut up about this holocaust

Sadr city is controlled by Jaish Al-Mahdi, it is solidly pro-Sadrist and solidly anti-American.

That’s what I’d heard, but I was interested in your opinion.

Kay, you’re not understanding the risks “these people” are going through just to speak with us.

They’ve know children killed by US munitions in Sadr city. This isn’t the Georgetown School of diplomacy. They’re probably going to have migranes for not using words a lot worse than f*ck.

i dont know what to say,because i feel,NOT guilty,but helpless against a mighty evil….i hang my head

I’m sorry, but this is the first time online that I’ve encountered GorillaGuides. Do you all know this person?

If you guys want to blame yourselves, you can. I NEVER ONCE supported attacking Iraq and spoke out against it. I am still speaking out against it. I’ve been to protests in Maine and Washington, DC. I’ve written letters, sent emails, called radio shows (including Air America), blogged my brains out, and screamed at my elected representatives and others in other states about how pissed off I am. I’ve sent money to groups and to progressives hoping to change the course.

But I’m to blame? No way. OUR GOVERNMENT IS TO BLAME.

mostly people suck…truly,we never learn from history,never

It sounds like a Muslim living in the country that the government and people of the United States of America have been busily turning into a living hell. There is may I point out to you nothing fucking polite about murdering children which your soldiers do with monotonous regularity. I asked that persom to shut up and start listening because if you will trouble yourself to read what they wrote what they were writing was the same lieing garbage about “ethnic” differences that your Army and so-called “experts” spew day in day out.

me too.but how do THEY know who is behind this Holocaust….

There is ultimately only one way out of this, and it is not war, and it is not hatred, and it is not revenge. It is truth, and it is understanding, and it must be based on some common ground somewhere…an eye for an eye..will only bring more violence, more war, more horror, more death.

The cycle has to be broken.

Of course I understand the risks! I’ve followed Baghdad Burning for a long time. I understand greatly. Why are you all turning on me about this? I think I’ve made myself perfectly clear that I am against ALL WARS & OCCUPATIONS and I don’t care who is leading our country when it happens. I don’t like the “eye for an eye” strategy. It sucks.

George Washington at Valley Forge is our model. We as liberals have to keep fighting and we have to fight better and smarter than we have to this point.

Oh yes, I am very familiar with these people.

They are living with the terrorism we have wrought.

I’m sorry, but this is the first time online that I’ve encountered GorillaGuides. Do you all know this person?

persons.

and yes, we do.

please follow our lead in this by showing them as much respect as you can muster and we’ll take this up later and answer all your questions. deal?

I certainly can’t point fingers, at least not at anyone in this discusion other than myself, but if I were an Iraqi I know I wouldn’t give a damn who was for this war or against it. The only thing that matters is what we do from now on.

you are correct…these people who run our government and military are SOCIOPATHS….the whole world is suffering their policies,but Your people MOST of all

Gorilla, as far as I know, Muslims do not swear nor do they drink alcohol. Am I wrong? Your use of profanity was off base and very unexpected.

Alright I’m leaving. Asking questions and making statements is obviously not allowed at the moment.

When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, the US held all of Japan accountable.

“These people” are in a horrible, life threatening situation. I think the best thing I can do is listen/read without getting defensive. Their Anti-Americanism is extremely understandable.

I want to stay focussed on what I need to do better to get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

true…i feel so damn helpless

And, I made that point up above also. LOL Apparently I’m not on the “A-List” of those who can speak to Gorilla directly. *shaking head*

Okay, really leaving now. LOL

Kay, it’s persons, it is a collective blog like FDL! I have opposed this fiasco from the very start and have done a lot of what you’ve done, but, it’s still being done IN OUR NAME! I truly appreciate GG and all their efforts!

THE ONLY PEOPLE HOLDING ALL IRAQIS ACCOUNTABLE ARE THE REICH WINGERS IN AMERICA WHO SUPPORT GEORGE BUSH & DICK CHENEY.

I don’t like the idea of genocide, but these assholes do.

you are a good one….this situation is impossible

Says somebody who manifestly has never lived in a Muslim country. No I do not drink. Yes I frequently relieve my feelings with unladylike language.

As do I. I sometimes wonder if we’ll ever get our country back.

Kay – please take a moment and listen. The team at GorillasGuides are an amazing group of people, almost all Iraqi and in Iraq, who have provided some of the best information from the ground in Iraq. We often turn to their work in our posts about Iraq – and if you remember, Jane recently wrote about the awful murder of the youngest brother of a Guides team member – after US troops shot at them as they tried to get him to medical care.

we all do….words are just words…its the horrible deeds we must STOP RIGHT NOW….but how????????????

it’s not that you ask questions – it’s the lack of respect for our guests that i have objected to. you seem to think you know more about them than they know themselves. it would piss me off if i were them. and please, i beg you once again…. let us have this time with them and we will answer all your questions later. please. i think if you will just be patient, you will come to understand. please.

when the freaaking whore media sez…old fart McInsane is even with the dems…i wonder,and lets face it folks..oh never mind

Fatima Jameel – I think many americans would be a bit surprised if they saw beyond the stereotypes of Islamic women. Having conversed once with Maryam, I recommend that no one underestimate the strength of you and your sisters!

If we were only a tenth as strong …

Khaled has just asked Erdla if he drops a hammer on her foot what will she call him. And yes it is deeds we are intersted in.

there are many strong woman…look at Jessica Lange with her petition.NOT IN OUR NAME…..but the point is…how to come together all the strong ANTI WAR PEOPLE…. how?

i curse alllllll the time im potty mouthed…but i really would like to help!!!!

Now, there is some common ground…we do too.

We are human too, and we are fighting too, and we want peace for you and the rest of humanity. We hate what has been done in our name. We cannot possibly feel the pain that you are feeling.

We need to hear your voice. It is the only way out of this hell.

I hope you can hear our voices somewhere in your heart too.

Peace.

i had an idea to take the horrible photos of the violence nand send it to female news media,what do you think?

Fatima, could you remark about this…

The tactics that Washington is pursuing in Iraq appear to be exacerbating several long-term trends that risk destabilizing Iraq even further and may well also undermine U.S. influence.

Washington’s militant intervention into intra-Shi’ite factional politics is pouring gasoline on that dispute, fomenting civil war between the two most powerful Shi’ite militias in Iraq by encouraging (or ordering?) Maliki to suppress Moqtada’s Mahdi Army. Washington is simultaneously laying the groundwork for a civil war between Iraqi Shi’a and Sunni by funding the organization of numerous local Sunni military units (e.g., the Awakening groups), which could evolve rapidly into a Sunni militia that would challenge the Shi’a since these units are gaining power without a commensurate move toward satisfaction of Sunni grievances. Washington is also fighting Iran’s war in Iraq by intervening in Shi’ite factional disputes on the side of the pro-Iranian Badr faction that constitutes Maliki’s main support. And finally, since Moqtada represents the poor urban Shi’ite underclass beyond the reach of government services, Washington is making war on the poor, a bad foundation indeed for building democracy.

http://arablinks.blogspot.com/

Yes.

You don’t need to be Iraqi to understand that one, just a human being. Stay well and thanks for discussing/arguing with us.

We women are more powerful than we think.

Bullseye.

i want to send the most horrible to Andrea greenspin(childless,and prolly barren) and Monica Crowley,and all THE CHEERLEADERS

YES,YES,AND YES…can we do it,can we send the photos in the mail?

Yes!!

i will be happy to research their addresses

As my personal opinion – I do not agree. I think you will see resistance factions uniting against Dawa and SIIC (the two major partys in the GZG) and also uniting to take back Kirkuk and Mosul. Certainly the Sadrist party’s represent the poorer people.

The fighting as I see it is establishing positions or consolidating them for after the Americans leave.

Saba Ali and Omar would be better people to ask however. They are more actively involved in that sort of thing.

I think it would be valuable to send photos – esp those from the US air strikes on Iraqi homes. Yahoo photos have them every single day …you can view them here.

Ali’s murder devastated all of us. He was a sweet child.

can we do this en masse?

Any way I could get feedback from Saba or Omar?

Prayers and condolences.

I have a photo of him next to those of my own children … each time I look at them, I remember and vow to fight harder.

again no words,children living in a war zone ,how INSANE is that?

CTuttle – you could always leave a question on one of the posts from Saba Ali or Omar at Guides. I know that the whole team is incredibly busy – and working very hard on relief work – but that would get to them.

Leave a comment with yout qustion on our site – that Arablinks site is one of the ones we translate into Arabic.

The fighting as I see it is establishing positions or consolidating them for after the Americans leave.

We are leaving. We can’t afford it and our forces are broken. It’s going to take years, but we most assuredly are leaving.

Friends – I have to leave for a little bit as I am overdue for a work task and cannot delay any longer. I’ll be back soon and meanwhile, thank you so much Erdla, Khaled and Fatima Jameel. Your contributions are so valuable and appreciated.

i must go now,but thank you for this discussion,i would like to do the horrific photos to the blase scribes…

That I shall! I want to do a post at M&C about it… Or several… Maybe one of them could leave a comment or two there… 8-)

Suin,how do icontact you?

I can and will! Mahalo for your tireless efforts!

oopsie Siun…sorry

Spotlight and Digg.

I’m always reachable at media dot firedoglake @ gmail dot com

You can contact her at media@firedoglake.com, she’s the media rep…! ;-)

Oops, didn’t know you were still around…! ;-)

Thanks CT! and now I am off!

I’ll be back soon and catch up.

The consensus on “guides” is 2009

Just an apology. I did not mean in any way to slight the Iraqi people or their courage or their commitment towards self-determination. Per CTuttle and others, US forces have invested much effort and dollars in spliting the population and pitting Iraqi against Iraqi. That was the direction from which I was approaching it.

I really appreciate your time, because it has sharpened my commitment to do more than I have been doing to get ALL our troops out. We have failed you to this point. Per Cujo, sadlyes and many others above, we will endeavor to work harder, better, and smarter.

You have friends in Siun and Jane Hamsher. They are tireless in promoting Iraq’s situation at FireDogLake.

Siun, I went back looking for the thread we did when Ali was killed by US shrapnel. I couldn’t find it. Perhaps if you can find it, it’s worth linking to this thread?

I smell a “movement”…make the women in the media look at pictures of what they are supporting by their unethical reporting. Send stuff to the wives of those that support the networks….send it to Pelosi (fagettaboutit…send anyway)…

Get the women to start saying NO MORE Killing, NO MORE warmongers, NO More WAR…get them to say…you want me?….Stop it NOW!

Yes.

Yes, that sounds right.

Hopefully we can do something to speed that withdrawal up considerably. I blog on other sites with some US troops over there and their morale is terrible.

Thank you very, very much for your time.

Send to Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton and Laura Bush and Lynn Cheney and Condoleeza Rice…

Send to the wives of all Senators and all Representatives.

Personalize the war. That is what they never do. Tell Ali’s story. Tell them what they have done and what they are doing. Tell them. Show them.

I think we’ll have more success there than at the Presidential level.

Moment of Silence

Siun if you read this later.

Mohammed Ibn Laith (who you have talked to), Ali’s brother, has sent what is left of his family away. He has left Baghdad shortly after the funeral, as have all the young men who worked with him in his unit. Young men from his tribe and from his mother’s tribe have also left their homes. Saba and Omar say in each case that they left with the permission and blessing of their parents.

may God protect them all and forgive us.

It is late here and we have an early start tomorrow – many meetings and then travelling for more meetings.

Our thanks to our hostess and sister in humanity Siun.

Fatima Jameel, Khaled al-Basrawi.

Be safe in your travels and my heartfelt thanks for what you are doing.

also my deepest apologies for what you endure.

what angie says goes for me as well.

As one who lived in the Arab world for three years…”Salaam alekum”

There are many who sympathise with your plight. I pray to God for you and your people daily.

gg at 270–i apologize and am sorry for not being here today.

i have not read all of the comments yet, just caught a few while the page was loading, and it appears that a few are getting the same awakening given to me by dr. maryam long ago…..it woke me up. i started paying attention. in slang language here it is called someone ’giving you the ’what for’ ’

i am glad that you linked to jane’s moment of silence post, it is one that is etched in my soul.

when i read it, it changed me even more. after coming to know of you all and reading you, i felt so helpless to help. i immediately flashed back to losing a close friend who was murdered, and ali was murdered in my opinion.

i wrote this to mohammed-
Moment of Silence

head bowed

hands clasped

staring at my still alive hands.

no words

my mind is numb

staring at my still alive hands

tears falling on my still alive hands.

========

i will be making a donation in ali’s memory to red crescent when i get paid.

—–

since then, i have made it my purpose to mail letters about every contradiction i hear to every single person that makes them about this war. it has been a big undertaking. but is better than doing nothing, i figure, and has taken a chunk out of my life, well worth it if it touches even one person to start reporting the truth that gets my emails.

basra was the last straw. what was being reported here directly conflicted with what what going on politically and militarily….it still is going on. i sent about 100 emails to media and people, with rev. mike’s site that siun provided.

i have no idea what else to do except what i am doing, when something else arises, you can bet i will be on it.

my hope is that you do not give up. don’t give up. i would need someone to say that to me if i were you. all the time.i wish i could give you both a big titty smashin hug and make it all better.

gg- and the forced emigration of mohammed and family (heart rendering) and anyone else of your group–if anyone makes it to the us, i have an extra bedroom and a clean record, i could sponsor someone.

i don’t have much money to help get them here, but the rest i do have. and it doesn’t cost much more to feed two than one. and there is a university here with many international people.

siun knows how to reach me.

(and how can mohammed be in one piece just losing his brother and leaving everyone he knows? oh my, my heart just bleeds for him, it just does…isn’t this still his mourning period? it is so wrong, so wrong. so wrong)

That is an honor I hope to earn. Thank you for taking time and care to speak with us, thank you more for all that you do.

If Mohammed is in touch, please send him my highest regards and wishes for success in his efforts.

The tone of my comment was thoughtless and heartless in the extreme. I have no words to express my shame. If there is a God, I know s/he will hold me accountable.