Bush and Cheney and their friends are looking for a pretext to attack Iran, and aren’t above making one up, as Dan Froomkin reminds us:
The Bush administration’s latest story line about Iraq — that Iran is now the primary problem there — should be greeted with profound skepticism.
Not only is it the latest in a series of rationales for U.S. involvement in Iraq, most of which have turned out to be based on flawed intelligence, misrepresentations or outright dishonesty.
But there are at least two illegitimate reasons why the White House would want the American public to see Iran as a threat right now.
One is that President Bush needs a definable, demonizable enemy for public-relations purposes, to take attention away from the reality that U.S. troops remain perilously and indefinitely astride several civil wars and resistance movements.
And the other is that the White House — or at least the Cheney faction within it — is still eager to do something definitive to curb Iran’s nuclear ambitions before the end of Bush’s term. With a preemptive strike off the table, advocates of a military attack could be looking for a provocation they could turn into a casus belli.
And so, nothing these people say at this point should be taken at face value — even when it’s supported by military officials on the ground. Many sincere people with plausible-sounding assessments have turned out to be selling a bill of goods when it comes to Iraq.
Juan Cole adds more reality to counter the "Iran is behind everything wrong in Iraq" bull.
Which is yet another reason why letting John Sidney McCain III, the fake-folksy heir of a wealthy Southern military family, anywhere near the White House would be a grave and disastrous mistake.
He has been repeatedly — and most likely deliberately — conflating (Shia-dominated) Iran with (Sunnigroup) Al-Qaeda in order to further the "Iran iz in ur Iraq base, killin ur dudes" nonsense. He’s also been trying to play the "right policy, wrong implementation" game on Iraq and Iran, a way to pretend to distance himself from Bush even though he’s voted for Bush’s Iraq plan over and over and over again.
Unfortunately, we can’t count on the mainstream media to do this, because they’re generally too busy covering for him. (This well-informed Boston Globe blast at McCain’s Bush-cloned economic non-policy is a rare and welcome exception to the rule.) Which is why we’re here.
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So?
Ding.
phooey
PW!
on them, not your post PW
Pretty sure Bush/Chaney/McCrazy will attack Iran if it is in their plan…they really don’t need a reason just like with Iraq. Only Congress can stop them and from other news I don’t think Dems will get involved.
I heard the media is bringing treats to McCain now. How, how stomach churning
Yeah, and when McCain “met” with the super, duper “shiite” ex-highly placed Al Qaeda “person”…that “guy” probably told him that he was trained in Iran…
Goddess…the Republicans are certifiably insane….all of them. Just frikkin’ nuts in a handbag and batsh*t crazy warmongerers.
McCain is a warmongerer and the media are too.
“John Sidney McCain III” sounds like a very elitist name to me. No different than “George Herbert Walker Bush”. Funny….these two are on the same page when it comes to attacking nations that aren’t threatening war with us! Interesting….
Today, W was asked about the IAEA’s statement that Iran is quite far away from a “nukular” “program”, and that the centrifuges are old.
Bush just went on about stopping them from having the “knowledge” to develop a nuke…again. How do you stop people from having the “knowledge”…??
Is this the new war…”The Global War on Knowledge”? What an idjiot.
Maybe they feel they need to keep him alive? Could be. On some days he looks like he’s heading to…you know…*pointing to the ground*. ;-)
We’re going to have lots to do to tear down the thin veneer of McSame. The good news is that there is lots there to work with.
Why should we believe Bush? Why should we believe the intel reports? Why should we believe the press? Who will pay for the current war let alone a new one?
If the Pukes bomb Iran…there will never, ever, ever, ever, ever be another Republican elected to anything in this country. Ever.
I certainly didn’t like Hill’s response to Iran in last nite’s ‘debate’, in that, any aggression from Iran would be met with American troops was way over the top…!
Still haven’t seen the NIE, have we? Darth sending his own intelligence people out to find something worth starting yet another war over?
sanka candy?
Sugar keeps the hear pumping. See? LOL
you wish
If they get into a larger war in the M.E….they will start a draft. People won’t go. They’ll get impeached, they’ll get sent up for war crimes…major sh*t will hit the fan….Geez, I think there would be a revolution or something.
Casus Bullshit or Casus Batshit?
I know, I’m just talking sh..
PW – Thanks for this thread. Exposure. These guys need exposure as early as possible. I feel so angry and frustrated that my voice has been robbed and ignored. If these warmongers attack Iran, I will be very bitter that I couldn’t stop it.
If you have access to the Internet you will have knowlege about nuclear development. Will all physics classes be outlawed? Is MSM calling Bush on his unintelligent logic? Guess not.
I’m under the weather and need to go rest again. I’ll check in late. I really count on FDL people to stand and speak.
there’s the thing, this text actually gives some kind of credibility since it suggests the actual inteligence was flawed or wrong
the inteligence was presice, it told the administration in no uncertain terms that saddam and Iraq was no threat
so instead of “flawed inteligence” we need to use the term “manufactured inteligence
Lou Dobbs just said “scumbag”…LOL
Yeah, CT as I said in a post on another thread earlier today that sure was a giant pander to AIPAC. They had to be lovin’ them some Hillary over that!
Oh, and what “NATO-like” alliance in the middle east? Afghanistan and Iraq perhaps? I want some of what she was smoking when she came up with that response. Even Pat Buchanan was taken aback with that…
One thing is for sure, I can’t wait for the neocons who have loved George Bush’s Oil Industry Financial Transaction in Iraq to have to support Obama (if he becomes the president) when he doesn’t pull the troops out right off. Yep. If they don’t, we’ll have to tell them their hypocrisy is showing and we’ll have to remind them that they’re the ones who said only REAL/TRUE Americans are supporting this war. See? It’s going to be fun throwing their bullshit back at them.
I don’t know about that but we don’t want to give “the people” too much credit.
What is Casus?
let me remind everyone
cheney had a long history of creating evidence so there would not be peace, he loves the war profiteering and the power it gives, he even creates his own “team b” to make believe the real cia doesn’t have “his” evidence
that story was out long beffore we aloud this maggot to lie us into another war and I cannot believe a lying maggot like this was able to get away with the same crap when we knew about what he does to start war
I wonder if George Bush cringed last night when Barack pointed out that it’s the president who sets the mission? All this time Georgie keeps blaming the intelligence and the military for what has gone on over in Iraq. Oh boy. He set the mission.
did he catch of glimpse of himself or something?
She mentions Lebanon too, I’m sure the Arab League appreciated her remarks…
The thing you have to remember about John Sidney McCain III, is that he’s of the same intellectual and academic caliber as The Decider Guy, or Most Glorious and Beloved Leader. Sixth from the bottom of his class at Annapolis… which in the Navy is sort of the definition of a “bottom feeder”. Both Ross Perot and Jimmy Carter were ranked better than McCain (although from different years). YMMV with respect to Perot and crazy trains. .
A McCain inspired draft could deflate even a McCrazy balloon..and yes Hillary seems a bit to eager for Iran fight.
Lou Dobbs just said “scumbag”…LOL
muttering about himself again, eh?
Latin for ’cause’ Bellus is the latin root for Belligerence, cause of war is the loose translation…
I have heard from two men who worked in the intel business… Scott Ritter and Ray McGovern…. Ritter’s comment on the NIE related to Iran’s nuclear program is that it in its self is a lie…. IF Iran NEVER had a nuclear program how are they going to prove they stopped it in 2003. Kind of sounds like Iraq trying to prove they didn’t have one when they didn’t have anything at all.
Ray McGovern is the CIA agent who called Rummy a liar in Atlanta…. he said that there is a 50/50 chance of BushCo bombing Iran without ANY notice…
Casus = “Case” (one latin translation)
Hiya Katy!
No kidding, why no one here has ever mentioned that before. I’ll be darned!
So which defense contractors are helping fund Hillary’s campaign?
I thought Causus Bellus changed his name to Mohamed Ali to protest the draft.
“If the Pukes bomb Iran…there will never, ever, ever, ever, ever be another Republican elected to anything in this country. Ever.”
Well, I certainly hope so, Ollie. *emphatic nod*
Good Evening PW and Firedogs -
2007 NIE – Pakistan 2007 is Afghanistan 2001
GAO: No WH Strategy on Pakistan 4/08
am so afraid they are prepared to do something monstrous to either subvert the electoral process or make some lameass attempt at tilting it for the Republics
and then of course blame it on the Ayatollahs
So who all who’s hanging out here tonight is going to Austin in July? ( Las Vegas and Chicago weren’t hot enough?)
… and he only got as far as he did ‘cuz his pa and gran’pa wuz Admirals … /s
Hey Raven !
I think Vegas is a wee bit hotter than Ausitn.
What it is?
I’ll be there.
per wiki…
Waving high back from NYC
But that was the beginning of June. This one is in mid-July. And yes, actually both Vegas and Chicago were hotter than hell when we were there.
Appointed…yes. Directive 51…count on it. *G*
And spensive if memory serves.
What it was … what it shall be … *g*
Fred Sanford used to say “ask yo momma what it is”!
OT Hilary thinks last night’s debate was a game changer…for her?
CBL, I posted about this…
that too.
Perhaps the hot air was being generated by the MSM who came to figure out who we were.
The scale of that was huge. When I went in the Navy they were training Sonar Technicians as fast as they could and it was a lot of training, about 48 weeks on top of the standard “Sailor” training. The new mega dollar systems required three times as many people to run, were infinitely more complicated to maintain and needed new ships to carry them.
Then it was claimed that the Walker Brothers had compromised a lot of this technology by revealing means and methods. Billions more were spent on new things to remediate this supposed setback. GE, Edo, & Raytheon were the usual players in those days.
LOL … Redd Foxx was da man !
-
Chimpigula is an empty suit in a play doh can – the guy of whom Rove said – he could make President .
but – McCain is a craven opportunist who has consciously made his own way – one need only look at his carefully calculated, orchestrated dealings with the McRib cult to understand how purposefully he operates
How about some money to but food? More food price riots in Pakistan could be a growth opportunity for al Quieda.
good line Keith, “After 45 minutes of trivial pursuit . . . ” re last night’s travesty.
Remember Rocco Martino?
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/005945.php
Didn’t Cheney & Scooter Libby go to Italy before the Niger forgeries surfaced? I think so.
do NOT get me started on that – dear gaia – unfreakin’ believable
gasoline on the fire ? entire fully loaded tanker squadrons
sorry to bust in but another line of his just jumped into my head.
Ya big dummy
… hopefully for turning the MSM back into respectable media outlets … yes, I’m an eternal optimist,
why do you ask ?!! *g*
Click on my name, I show the planned disbursements…
Reagan, Bush, and McCain the GOP seems to have a track record of putting short bus riders in the White House.
yuk. Howard Fineman on now. And KO giving him a plug for a book.
His hair is looking stranger by the day.
Thanks!
finally on Reuters—took almost 24 hours:
Crazymaking.
Mr says he lookslike he ran some shoe ploish through his hair
Actually, they’re planning not to fund ISI or the military…!
sheesh polish
Of course, then you can just give them the incriminating information…and say they have it!
Recall that the Republican right wing Senators (Roberts of Kansas and ? from Minnesota] insisted that Condi Rice put on the internet tens of thousands of scanned documents of Saddam Hussein’s regime in Arabic, allowing people to scour them for evidence of WMD’s? Well they found it…documents that were made back in the pre-Gulf War invasion period…that had already been turned over by Saddam to the IAEA. Nothing new there…
But by putting this stuff on the internet in ARABIC every amateur bomb-maker had a chance of obtaining the documents! Whoops!
And then there was the CIA’s gambit of providing the Iranians plans for flawed nuke triggers that wouldn’t be detected until actual testing occurred and failed. These were apparently provided as part of a set of documents that the Iranains REALLY wanted…information on how to manufacture civilian reactors. Again, the US PROVIDED the schematics.
if not the spray that Beau Bridges used in The Baker Brothers.
((((( Loo Hoo )))))
I’ll be in Austin, RevDeb. Look forward to seeing you again!
Katy, gonna be up in NYC tomorrow… for a day. Out on LI… you in midtown?
“Stephanopoulos … dismissed criticism that it had focused too heavily on “gotcha” questions, arguing that they had gone to the heart of the “electability” that, he said, is forefront in the minds of voters evaluating the two Dems.”
If the media are serious and honest about their explanation for the travesty last night then they should give McCain the same treatment.
There should be endless gotcha questions about whether McCain is a true extreme conservative, and his entire history, his every word on relevant policy issues should be minutely examined.
His bizarre confusions regarding Iran should be examined every day, and also his reactions to any analysis he is subjected to and his reactions to the media analysis of his reactions.
Whether his mistatemnts regarding Iraq and Iran are due incipient senililty, ignorance, or dishonesty should be analyzed repeatedly
Everyone single one of his changes in any position ever should be repeatedly and obsessively examined.
His campaign finance problems should be an object the most minute scrutiny.
And this should be done in the most literal, uncharitable, petty, exacting way imaginable, just to see if he can take it.
Notice that I am giving a McCain a break here because I would prefer that the wingnut and Bushite smears against him not be raised. But I may be wrong, there are parts of the reactionary wing of the GOP who may still be wondering about whether he is mentally unstable, has a black child out of wedlock or an uncontrollable temper that will throw us all into WWIII at the drop of a hat.
OK, where is it?
It is not there. It has not ever been there.
Therefore Stephanopoulos’ explanation is a fraud ande he is a liar or a fool.
This mendacious, incompetent, uninformed, innumerate, illiterate self-centered and nihilistic and profoundely depraved parasites dominate the media that are charged with the grave obligation to adequately inform the public in order to cast a responsible vote in upcoming elections.
I damn well want an organized public effort to confront both the organizations and the individuals responsible for subverting the election process. I want to stop the corporate media of producing national political debates. I want some public accountability for their incompetence and malfeasance and depravity.
This is serious danger to our democracy.
———
Debating Electability
By Ed Kilgore – April 17, 2008, 7:18PM
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsme…..ctability/
Stephanopoulos strongly defended his handling of the debate. He dismissed criticism that it had focused too heavily on “gotcha” questions, arguing that they had gone to the heart of the “electability” that, he said, is forefront in the minds of voters evaluating the two Dems.
——-
Hey, Jo! I plan on posting about the new Rand report released today about PTSD…!
*dead* ahahahahahahaha
Re; Pakistan.
The US has promised to curb air strikes by drones against suspected militants in Pakistan, as part of a joint counter-terrorism strategy agreed with the new civilian government in Islamabad, the Guardian has learned. That strategy will be supported by an aid package potentially worth more than $7bn (£3.55bn), which is due to go before Congress for approval in the next few months’
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl……terrorism
I’d love to be in Austin this July, all depends on what happens in the next month or two.
We’re going to stop invading a sovereign country.
OK.
Maybe…but she really didn’t make any positive points until the second half of the debate. I wonder how many people stuck it out until then. Everything before that was pretty much a gang-attack on Obama, with the one snippet of attack on Hillary about her lying about snipers.
Pretty much McCain won that part of the debate. She did better in the second half. But only masochists would have stayed around I think.
No financial district….. flight leaves JFK at 6ish….. the Pope is messing up everything here in the city…… he arrives around 9:45am at JFK….. streets blocked for 20 blocks around his motorcade route…. thankfully the Pope will be speaking at a church in Yorktown when I fly out…
Yeah, and what would either or both of the candidates said if they had been told up front to prepare for scurrilous gotcha questions and no substantive policy questions at all (oh, and that Charlie Gibson just got his latest issue of the “Laffer Journal” in the mail right before air time).
Jeebus, they should have both just walked off the stage.
Last I checked on the ABC comment thread about the debate, it was at almost 13,000 comments. 9-1 negative from what I read.
“Elizabeth, I’m comin to see ya” or “how’d you like one of these cross yo lip”. My aunt and uncle went to see Redd Fox in Chicago not knowing what his live gig was like. They left.
I’m going to be out at JFK around 4 or so… beer/soda/ice tea call?
OK :)
I once heard his live show described as “capable of shaming Merchant Marines.”
OMG…to be a fly on the wall…
Here are the best responses to it I’ve seen:
In Memoriam
ABC Newz
I’m always here in Austin (area)…sort of..
We have an old LP of his stand up. definitely after hours material but funny as hell.
Do they still air the reruns to Sanford and Son?
Mr. Foxx was the scourge of Vegas cab drivers and they went to elaborate lengths to not allow him into their vehicles. If he got into your back seat, he would either throw up or refuse to pay. Most times, he would apparently throw up and refuse to pay, not necessarily in that order.
It got so that many drivers devised an elaborate “Redd Foxx Early Warning System,” the better to avoid chauffeuring him about. A cab driver, upon spotting Redd outside the Tropicana, would get on his radio and put out a broadcast: “Code 23 at the Tropicana
Canucks can come to Austin…
There are actually some people who liked the debate/moderators ?
Must be Hannity fans …
Flying out US Air….. will be there at 4…. want to meet up?
Give me a call…
KO citing TPM…
n a side note, the article described the results of the $25 Million reward for Osama Bin Forgotten and AQ..
Furthermore, much of the money being used for counter-terrorism is being misspent, both Pakistan and US government officials say. As an example they say that Musharraf distributed the $25m reward money for capturing or killing “high value” al-Qaida targets in the form of an “inverted pyramid”.
“A few thousand would go to the police constable on the ground who actually spotted the guy, but the millions go to the generals up the chain,” a Pakistani official said. No wonder, he added, that the tip-offs stopped coming in and the number of high-profile arrests dropped.
http://www.mainandcentral.org/
Forget giving Pakistan aid get them to bring in Ossama and then we talk cash. After you’ve been taken once you give the cash after you get what you want.
Has nobody in the White House or Congress ever handled money.
My dad said something about Gen MacArthur asking for food for Japan after the war a very unpopular position or he wanted a few more divisions of troops to handle the expected food riots, he got the food.
He also said the first American accused of rape in Japan was tried quick and shot.
Which helped get the Japanese to trust us. Contrasting MacArthur’s occupation of Japan with Bush’s handling of Iraq.
Giving more money to the generals in Pakistan does not help us get what we want we want Ossama we need a stable Pakistan.
http://www.tvland.com/shows/sanford
Hmmpf … your customs officials are ornery …
13K huh? Let’s see now, about 1% of people who read FDL actually comment. My guess is that fewer of the people who watched that drek would even think of commenting, but 9-1 against is pretty good. I would have but I didn’t want to give them any of my info to register.
KO talks about ABC not bringing up the very story they broke!
KO debunking the bullshit about Bill Ayers supposed “9/11″ statement>
Didn’t hear about Cheney/Libby…but Michael Ledeen, who was an advisor to Karl Rove was over there at the time.
Ledeen and the Niger Forgeries
I watched a 2007 (I think) George Carlin show last night…LMFAO…talk about being all over it…Long live Carlin!!
Is that correct about FDL folks?
cool. thanks sucka!
Very cool. Greg Mitchell on KO dissing last nights abomination.
Absolutely. What terminal? (Don’t know JFK that well yet). I still have your cell number. :) I’ll call you when I get thru security.
Got that number from Pach
I think it is dangerous to allow this system to continue for one more day.
Think of the consequences for the legitimacy of the general election if a debate like this took place right before voting day. Especially if there was a concurrent crisis or political scandal, genuine or manufactured.
And the ridiculous thing is that the most dispensible and replaceable element is this gang of depraved loons who select and ask the questions, and their politcal/corporate masters.
A responsible and non-partisan committee to arrange a debate can certainly be organized and running before the general election. They can do the preparatory work in more than enough time. Other than that you need a auditorium, a couple of cameras and microphones and connections to the outside world.
A community college could put one on.
Agitate to change it now.
Even if it does not happen, such an effort will be an invaluable tool for educating the public before the election.
I couldn’t agree with ya more…! ;-)
Oh, were we supposed to give correct information ? *g*
Ever see his first gig on the first SNL, he talks about being able to hijack a plane by holding a sharp piece of paper up to a stewardess’ neck. Obviously innocent buy chilling nonetheless.
It looks like from the sitemeter that FDL gets approximately 3000 – 4000 hits per hour on FDL….It would be kewl if more people would jump in.
FDL could put one on… everyone chip in $10 (they have 55,000 hits a day) and we get a rockin’ good debate series going.
Did you know that “Lamont” is a Nam vet? Demond Wilson.
I’m not sure…I do remember one from years ago about “stuff” and one about all of the hilarious signs on airplanes…maybe it was that one…Gawd, he’s been consistent all these years…love him.
I take enough of a beating as it is!
Well, we’ll definitely have to get together. I’ll buy you some drinks one evening.
Gah!
Greg Mitchell just referred to Vince Foster’s death by framing it as “…the Vince Foster murder.”
I bought the box set.
Good idea!
Were they moderating comments? I don’t think mine got posted. It wasn’t a very nice comment, so I could see why. ;-)
Hee, hee…but sometimes you love it..*g*
Fun!!
CTuttle – had to run out for a second and just now saw your posts – nice site – thanks
It hurts so good.
Keith’s veins are popping out. He’s a little pissed about how the gummint “supports the troops.”
Ah, tell ‘em you’ve wanted to visit Texas ever since Bush was elected.
And well he should be. . .skunks.
JoFish-dang straight. FDL would do a good one.
But doubt it would fly wrt to non-partisanship. I suggest radnomly selected community college districts do it. No one is going to beat up on the local school the teaches intro calculus,biology, nursing and votech. And the spectacle of seeing the media fools being humiliated by local instructors and students and citiznes would be an instructive lesson.
——-
My proposal:
A public conference is needed with publicity.
In addition to bloggers and other public interest organizations, need independent experts in journalism and specific topic areas evaluating the problems.
A report, with executive summary, specific questions to speific organizations and individuals, with a request for a public response.
A proposal for change, centerpiece would be scrapping current system.
Petitions.
Relevent products (signature lists, proposals, charges and requests for repsonses) presented to
-all major responsible media organizations,
-relevant professional organizations
-Congress
Also, the public reaction to debate, for example, the two moderators being booed, and the overwhelming negative response to ABC, which has been documented on the internet should be a newsworthy items. If other broadcast and cable media, newspapers and magazines do not cover, they should also be contacted and asked why they do not consider the public reaction newsworthy.
Mahalo for the kind remarks…! 8-)
Don’t know. I typed one out and when I hit submit it wanted info—name, e-mail addy, etc. I didn’t want to play with them so I closed the window. Didn’t think about faking it. Damn.
I have questions about it. I don’t think the Clintons had anything to do with his death, but I think something strange happened, and I know that there was some strange “damage control” that went on. Do not ask.
That’s what Jane said. I was surprised too.
Don’t bunch up, one frag’ll get you all.
amazin
I did it, I don’t give a rat’s arse… It felt good to rant…! ;-)
Wow! Sounds like they really pissed KO off on his “Bushed” segment. I’m so glad he said, “This is the way this administration treats our heroes!” That really needed to be said!
It looks like Terminal 7 according to the JFK map
That is a good point actually.
I figure that I read about 15 blogs—when I have the time, which isn’t often these days—and this is about the only one that I comment on. I only read the front pages on the others, actually on my RSS reader. So it is quite possible. The question is how many people read the nonsense that we all write and don’t comment?
JoFish -actually if there was another Democratic primary debate, FDL would be the perfect sponsor. If we let the Obama supporters here select questions for HRC, and vice versa…. (and then, prolly screened by a panel with equal representation from both)
Dude, it wouild be twice as tough for the candidates as last night, and I would hope fair, incisive and informative.
Silly civilians
Raven will run security.
pass that bong over here
even the YouTube debate was decent. After last night it’s looking better and better.
raven will run “from” security. . .again
Why is it important to be “non-partisan”? Invite the republicans and have a thoughtful conservative asking questions as a “moderator”. I’m sure there are one or two non-bombastic conservatives who would do a good job.
If the AFL-CIO can sponsor a debate, why can’t FDL? Just because we all sit on roughly the same side of the ideological fence doesn’t mean we won’t listen or want to hear the other side. Unless its Tom Delay or Newt. LOL! :)
Ok, that is a problem, No security for you.
“Let’s go over and see what that big explosion is…” D’oh…
Can I salute you amongst that crowd…? ;-0
Remember….”Partisan” is a good thing.
I was actually being snarkolicisous about the chances of a Lake debate.
I called ABC this morning to give them my 2 cents. Here’s what I said and what happened during that conversation:
http://whitenoiseinsanity.word…..ment-50939
I wasn’t nice, but I’m at a point where I’m tired of being nice.
No, I had no idea. Aha a new trivial pursuit question, I can add to the deck (we make up our own)
You know about saluting in the field.
The comment didn’t post immediately, but between when I first checked and when I registered and posted, another thousand comments went up! People are pissed.
I meant the cheese..for pasta…D’oh.
I am in a crazed outraged state.
My real serious goal is to get a public protest going over corporate media conduct.
It will be succesful if it raises public awareness and gets info out there before the general election.
And damn it, I want a number of media frauds be made accountable to the public. Just out of sheer sense of justice.
Walyon Jennings and Bill Cosby have GED’s.
An FDL debate using funds raised on-line, lobby PBS or CSPAN to carry it… invite moderators like one commenter or front-pager from FDL, perhaps Rachel Maddow, a retired legislator (D or R), and perhaps a republican of the non-bombastic genre. Two hours, and questions from the mods, the internet equally and invite questions from conservatives.
I assumed so. But what the heck a little snarky brainstorming never hurt.
Oh wow. Maybe that’s what happened….the thread was moving too fast. They are pissed. The comments I read were just as bad as mine which made me feel…you know…united with rational thinking people again! :-)
“snarkolicisous”
Love that word, Raven! I could say 3,000 times and wouldn’t get sick of it. ;-)
Hillary wouldn’t come within a million key strokes of this outfit.
ahh KO talking about the new umbrella
I thought she had said something about Iran’s nukes….
with respect to legislation and governing, I am with you. I am sick to death of the word “bi-partisan”. I don’t know that cutting out every idea is a good thing, but if we govern, then it’s our ball game ultimately. fuck bi-partisan as a modus operandi/reason for every decision.
cool. keep em coming.
Wow she is far to the right of McCain and the administration. (KO comments)
Not just that, she’s gonna intervene anywhere. I hate to mention that have been saying forever that she if she gets elected she will bomb the shit out of the first “target of opportunity” that comes along. Take it to the bank.
Rachel, *swoon* is debunking the Iran BS…!
Yeah, she would if there was enough pressure to show. She’s a creature of politics and if the perception was that she was a “fraidy cat” how does that play to her “3AM readiness”? HRC is basically a wimp.
Actually, she did come and answer a few questions a while back. The topic was pay equity and Jane caught a ration from some folks who thought Hillary had set the ground rules rather than Jane.
Casus Bully
Aravosis reports that Howard Dean has had about enough (as have we all) and wants the supers to weigh in. Now.
Hmmm…in keeping with Keith’s discussion of Hillary’s ambitions in the ME, I just wonder what would happen if someone told us that if we get too friendly with Canada or Mexico, we could be subject to severe retribution from them. Not China, not Russia, not Cuba or India or anyone would ever dare even suggest such a thing, even though we don’t even have an army left. We have to rely on our Air Force or Navy to deal with any problems. This is just unreal!
I love it!
KO and Rachel….HRC farther (further?) right than Bush or McCain…HRC hawkish to the hilt…
Dang. I want this transcript…
Hillary must have taken her mask off or something in that debate about the M.E….I didn’t watch the debate…but they are all over her…previously Rachel has been much more neutral…
This whole thing is creeping me out. I give up.
Leon Russell was in Gary Lewis and the Playboys and Steve Stills tried out for the Monkees and didn’t make it.
that’s a great link and a great read
we already know our real cia told the administration there is no threat from Iraq, that Iraq was not associated with 9/11 and that we needed to keep our eye on the ball otherwise the gates of hell would open and the world would turn against us
at the time we enjoyed the greatest international unanimity we had ever known, as even foreign papers wrote;
“everyone is now an american”
the administration was informed in no uncertain terms that if they tried to attack Iraq this sentiment would turn against us into a vile hatred
so of course, this vile hatred is exactly what our administration wanted and they went right ahead and forged documents so they could at least make believe their claims had some legitimate foundation
they had no foundation at all
anyway kay who is now in maine, great link
Will the Hillary supporting super delegates listen to Dean? I doubt it. Hillary doesn’t listen to the party as a whole, so why in hell would the Supers who support her listen to Dean?
*shaking head*
She won’t be happy until our party is completely divided and conquered and she (along with Joe Lieberman) will jump the aisle to yell at us, “Suckers!”. I’m serious. That’s the level I see her on right now.
I admit it, i didn’t want to believe it but she said it. i can’t believe no one has written much on it today
Noooo….lol
Who me? :{)
I suggest that Bush also wants a non-GOP, non-predatory oil company explanation for the likely permanent increase in global oil prices. A trend that his incompetently run wars of aggression have accelerated by several years, diminishing our ability to respond to it with less pain and dislocation at home (but more rapidly developed profits for his supporters).
I presume that Mr. Bush also has de fact commitments to the aerospace industry, which an expansion of aggressive war would make easier to fulfill.
A significant by-product, if not intended consequence, of his wars of aggression is also to dismember the United States government as it has existed since the end of the Second World War. That includes the expansion of presidential powers, a goal of Cheney’s for thirty-five years, and the decimation of FDR’s New Deal — from Social Security to agencies that regulate business.
Bush may have given such a bad name to “government” (really, incompetently run government), that recession spending on New Deal public works projects may no longer be politically acceptable. A disaster, given our need to rebuild infrastructure works that date back to LBJ, Eisenhower or FDR.
That George Bush’s stewardship is about to bankrupt yet another of the organizations that have fallen under his control, matters not a wit to him. None of the others have.
She’d have to prove she has cajones.
LOL! And believe me, that question set the tone for the whole conversation. She was completely put off by me but I was not going to stop talking until I made my point clear or until someone physically ripped the phone from my hand. ;-)
Tommy Chong played guitar for a soul group signed by Motown called Bobby Taylor and the Vancouvers.
Hmmm…Maybe that debate…shook the tree in an odd way…
Peter Gabriel…”Shakin’ the Tree”….I love that concert….
Did anyone notice if the woman that was asking the question was wearing HER flag pin?
Hey ese!
She had the opportunity to become a great “statesman” but by fouling(fowling) her own nest, she’s pretty much blown that. She goes any further, she’ll have to join Traitor Joe in the Ct. for Lieberman party.
We’d melt.
LS, the transcript is here and the pertinent quotes are at about 50:00 min. in…
Unfortunately, I agree with you.
Thank you, thank you…I’ve been driving blind all day…
I’m tellin ya, it’ll be just like JFK gettin our asses in the Nam, gotta counter that right wing attack machine.
Thanks Perris. What’s so interesting about the Rocco Martino angle is:
1) The ROM (republican owned media) has refused to talk about it for years. Personally, I’ve known about him and the stolen Niger letterhead for a bazillion years now.
2) Dick Cheney & Scooter Libby made a trip to Rome, Italy in 2002. Oh boy.
You’re right, Perris. The worst case scenario is EXACTLY what Georgie, Dickie, and the rest of the Ickies wanted way before the 2000 election if you want to get technical about it.
My eyes were glazing over when Hillary was detailing her exposition of the relationship of the US to Israel…and whether or not we would attack Iran if they acquired nuclear technology (civilian or otherwise).
Anybody care to recapitulate?
No Problemo…! Glad to be of assistance…! ;-)
I did ask her if she had a flag pin on and she gave me silence. I hope to gawd she was thinking, “What kind of asinine question was that!”. Yep. Exactly.
Pathologically honest, eh?
I’d love to see Jane, Christy, and EW along with some of our other Posters on the panel to ask questions too.
Massive response. Buchanan was going nuts afterward “Imperial Presidency”.
The rush to attack yet another Middle Eastern country also seems to rest on a Feith/Rumsfeld/Cheney fantasy optimism that whatever consequences may flow from it, they will not affect whatever these men hold dear.
Yes, by all means, Mr. President, wear that lapel pin. Show Americans and your troops that you take your responsibilities seriously, that you carefully weigh the goals you deem worthy of their lost lives and honor.
Update:
“FOR THE GOOD OF THE PARTY” is not in Hillary’s vocabulary nor does she ever think these words either. Sad, but true.
You have to fight
for the right
to PARTY!
peace out ya’ll
yep. Not that anyone in this govt. would be able to understand what that means.
KO is showing the video of Darth last night at the radio and tv broadcasters dinner.
Any guesses that the WH put this out in order to blunt the reporting of the Pope snubbing the WH dinner? OOH, shiny object . . . . over there>>>>>>>
Or as the DJ in Boston put it sometimes:
You have to fight
For yer bite
Of PATE
Aloha, Raven! I salute ya…! 8-)
LOL Well, after watching drinking Boiler Makers (beer with a whiskey chaser) the other night, it’s very possible she’s getting the “parties” confused. *screaming laughter*
and we know this as a fact too kay who is now in maine, it’s not speculation, it’s not worst case scenario, it is indeed a fact
they even published their intentions a long time ago on their web page
they are a sick fraternity of maniacle sociopaths who have wanted war with Iraq since before clinton’s term and they posted their intention for all to see
yet they are charged with no crime for bringing us into their maniacle plan which enabled them to steal treasure from Iraq and the middle class of our country
a theft that we will pay for with our lives, our country’s infrastructure and our childrens future, our children and their children whow will be paying for these maniacs for generations unknown and a price untold
Yeah, Jane as head mod… Christy, perhaps Marcy but how about say Valerie Plame or Joe Wilson for international and security matters? How about Bill Moyers or Jim Hightower? Find non-blog people too, but show that we have the power to do this.
I think it’s becoming “our” time. After last night, I am more convince than ever. the reason to raise money is to stage this as a first class production… one that will make news, and that (sadly) would cost money the first time around, maybe even the second.
That’s very cool. The supers do need to decide.
She’s a frikkin’ maniac!!!!
Here is Maine, we’d say:
You gottah fight
fohya right to
Pahtee!
LOL
Further. Further indicates depth, farther, distance.
No…I meant the woman on the tape that was used in the debate? Did SHE have a flag pin on…and who precisely was she. Where was she coming from…ideologically? Seems a very odd question except from someone utterly clueless, or a plant.
Are you making fun of my name? LOL! Well, I suppose I could just use “Kay” but then everyone would say, “Are you just “Kay” or are you “KayInMaine?”. In other words, too late to change it at this point. You’re making me crack up, however! Love it. Thanks.
You said this:
“they are a sick fraternity of maniacle sociopaths who have wanted war with Iraq since before clinton’s term and they posted their intention for all to see
yet they are charged with no crime for bringing us into their maniacle plan which enabled them to steal treasure from Iraq and the middle class of our country
a theft that we will pay for with our lives, our country’s infrastructure and our childrens future, our children and their children whow will be paying for these maniacs for generations unknown and a price untold”
And I do this:
*thumbs up* Exactly right!
Gasp!!! She said something to the effect that this Administration has not done enough to present how dangerous Iran is…Did I just get that right???
If so, she is every bit as dangerous as McCain or Bush.
The Wilsons Are in the bag for Hillary. Don’t think they’d add to a neutral debate.
I don’t think she did. I don’t know anyone who wears a US flag pin except the reich wing jackboot lickers in the House & Senate.
Good. Scott Ritter.
You’re utterly cool…I was just suggesting an etymological association. Some people think that “bully” comes from the word for “bull”…but it may come from “belli”…as does the word “bellicose”. To me that would make more sense…as it means something like a haranguer (lots of that last night BTW) or one who “hectors” someone incessantly.
The word also has ties to the phrase “bully pulpit”…which of course is what a politician climbs to advocate for war.
I am not making fun of the name kay, I am endearing it, or I thought I was
see you upstairs
raises hand and jumps up and down
OMG Perris! I love how you’re referring to me. Don’t stop. ;-)
Hey, Hillary is to the right of McCain on this shit. She wants to create a “security umbrella” in the middle east to protect Israel and possibly others.