Bittergate was the second question, after a nonsensical waste of time about whether each candidate would pledge to be the winner’s running mate. I think Obama answered the Bittergate question fairly well, saying that people have taken refuge in tradition as the government has abandoned them. Hillary gleefully jumped all over it, and basically implied that Obama was insulting her working class family.
The first actual issues question was a couple-in-the-street question along the lines of, "Will you Democrats really get the troops out of Iraq, or are you just big fat liars?" (Both candidates: Yes to the first part.) Snuffy also asked what they would do about Iran trying to acquire nuclear weapons, a dodgy premise that both candidates willingly went along with.
One of the most telling sequences for me was when ABC aired a video question from some woman asking Obama if he believes in the American flag, because he never wears an American flag pin (WTF?), and Obama called out the media for promoting "manufactured issues" at the expense of real ones. The very next question, Snuffy asked Obama a truly vile question fed to him by Sean Hannity, about Obama’s supposed friendship with an ex-Weatherman terrorist, prompting Obama to point out that this was exactly what he was just talking about. It was a great "There you go again" moment, but this time directed at the media. Hillary jumped on the Weatherman bandwagon, and Obama noted that Bill actually pardoned a couple of Weathermen. Ouch.
Other highlights:
- A video clip of John McCain declaring that Democrats would Raise Your Taxes, followed by the spectacle of Charlie Gibson arguing tenaciously against increases in the capital gains tax (um, I thought the candidates were supposed to debate each other, not the moderator), insisting again and again that tax revenue goes up every time capital gains taxes go down, and vice versa. Hillary pledged not to raise taxes on the middle class, which she apparently defines as anyone making less than $200,000, and that she would not raise the capital gains tax above what it was during Bill’s administration. Obama pledged to cut taxes on the middle class, and (I think) raised the threshold to $250,000. Wow. Up until tonight I thought I was doing fairly well for myself.
- Snuffy with the best question of the debate, reminding Hillary that she had said she would "use the former presidents" and asking her how she would use Dubya. Her response was something along the lines of, "Uh, let me get back to you on that." (I suck at remembering exact quotes, but I’m good at gist) Hillarious.
- Clinton and Obama each proclaiming the other to be electable, and promising that the Democrats will unify behind the nominee, whoever it may be.
Overall, the moderators were more adversarial towards the candidates than the candidates were towards each other. In fact, they managed to be even worse than Tim Russert and Brian Williams, something I would not have believed possible.
If you’re wondering who won the debate (other than McCain), I think it was a wash. Neither candidate outshone the other to an extent that will affect the outcome of the primary. For me the bigger story was the appalling and irresponsible behavior of the moderators. Did they really think that Democratic primary voters are more interested in Weathermen and flag pins than they are in hearing whether their next president thinks authorizing torture is a criminal act?
ABC switchboard: 212-456-7777 (Thanks, Atrios!)
Or you can fill out their online feedback form.
Go get ‘em.
UPDATE: To be fair, I should also point out that Hillary was asked about Snipergate, so it’s not like Obama got all the useless timewasting gotcha questions.
Related posts:
Spotlight
Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search
Good grief, this is a horrible debate!
Love the title.
Meanwhile, over there:
But thank God Charles Gibson’s stock options will be taxed at 15%.
Hey Eli, thanks for hosting us all for the past several hours; great job!
I revised it to make it more civil. Are you saying you can still see the original title? What a terrible sloppy mistake on my part.
I concur with this post.
I’m exhausted, and I haven’t even seen the debate.
Cheney takes on Olbermann coming up. This could be fun!
I’m pretty sure it cost me a year off my life. By the time I tried to do the wrap-up, my brain was pretty much no longer functional.
Yes.
This has been another edition of simple answers to simple questions.
(h/t Atrios, whom you hate)
Can we get the candidates or the moderators to wear these next time? Or to tell us their spouse’s recipes for patriotic sweets?
Oh I do hope we’re done with these silly pageants for a while!
I concur with this heading strikeout.
Now off to see Teh Daily Show. Surreality R Us.
Sounds like I missed a big steaming pile of nothing. Thank God it was my teaching night.
worse debate yet. I suppose it’ll only become worse once the debatamercial will start including McCain.
Is it too late for new dem candidates?
be very very glad for your teaching schedule.
I already called and the cheerful operator apologized that I was ‘unhappy’ with the cheap shallow questions masquerading as poignant political dialog (and the two asshats parading as political/news types)
Heh. Actually I think they’re well aware of what Democratic voters want to hear about, it just doesn’t have anything to do with their agenda.
Oh, you mean there was a third title? That must have been a scorcher.
KO actually did some good post-debate on the israel issue.
The comments at ABC just keep on coming. (5900+ and going strong) Snips of the four at the top of the page right now:
“Tabloid – gotcha journalism.”
“Shame on ABC. What an atrocity.”
“Tonight’s debate was a scandal for ABC News”
“WATCH BRIAN WILLIAMS ON NBC EVER NIGHT!!!!!”
Does anyone remember Don Hewett who moderated the Kennedy/Nixon debates or am I really that old and it is past my bedtime.
Anyway, looking at this “gotcha” fiasco tonight, it is hard to recall another debate featuring such crappy questions. I missed the end when the audience let Gibson and Stephanopoulos have it. Good on the audience!
They neglected to ask if Michelle Obama has any good recipes.
Thanks very much to all who live-blogged this catastrophe. I hope tonite’s disaster motivates John McCain to engage in a “respectful and civil campaign” by asking the League of Women Voters to re-engage in debate moderation.
Why does Mickey Mouse hate America?
Glad I missed it.
If ABC sponsored the debate, who aired it?
I don’t think we’ve missed it yet, alas. It hasn’t come on in the west.
Update: looks like it’s on in California. Pups, should we watch, or avert eyes?
Nah, that was sarcasm, actually.
707! hehhehehehehe
That’s putting it nicely.
Go here to hear the crowd BOOING Gibson and Stephanie:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..97124.html
*channeling Marley speaking to Scrooge*
Miss it. Please, please, please miss it. Don’t make the same mistake with your life that I did. It’s not too late to change . . .
So I have to endure this bullshit in one hour? Should I do something else, pups, or should I watch it?
She has a great muthfu*kin iced tea recipe.
-G
Aside from actually rivaling NBC for bad journalism in a debate, capital gains ad nauseum but no mortgage failure, spiraling dollar, deficit, freebooting banks, usury? Capital gains tax cut?? Did Ken Mehlmann write the questions?
*channeling Monty Python*
Run away!!!!
I was disgusted with the questions.
I was horrified by the response by Clinton wrt to Iran and Israel and her new ‘umbrella’ policy.
(There is NO difference between Hillary and McCain or Bush on war or foreign policy.)
Deterrents ‘R’ Us!
I’m so glad i blocked ABC/Disney from my cable box when they were trying to shut down spocko over the ksfo hate talk radio pushback. Looking at the comments about the debate, it appears they have not changed at all from their anti-democractic party stance when ABC aired that fake 911 docudrama.
Egads, don’t watch it.
Or if she really hates America. I thought for sure that would follow the Ayres question.
Spoken like a real moderator.
Hi Suzanne. Get a cookie?
On the general topic of Our Corrupted Media:
The Villanova college student who yesterday asked McCain about Hillary’s knocking back a shot is the son of Steve “Fox and Friends” Doocy. Betcha Tweety wasn’t pleased about him asking a question.
That was new, right? Had she said that before and I hadn’t noticed?
Hundreds of firepups can’t be wrong…
Do. not. watch!
OK – thanks! You realize this only makes me want to watch it more, in a really perverse way, don’t you?
Or you can fill out their online feedback form.
I didn’t know quite where to put it – I chose “Complaints”.
Here’s a Complaint, ABC. You only give me 500 characters for my Complaint? I was just gettin’ warmed up…
I’m watching America’s Next Top Model; I’ve already lodged my email and voicemail complaints to ABCNews, why watch?
Do something else. I am a news junky, and it was awful. Mostly dull, sort of depressing; like when you know you have probably eaten something that wasn’t quite good.
I was sure there would be a Rezko question. Possibly coupled with that Iraqi billionaire that Obama met at a party once.
Not to worry, Gibson and Stephano will spin this as if everybody in the audience hated us then we must have done something right. In so many ways it was a performance worthy of the Bush Administration. It wasn’t that it was bad. It was that it was unbelievably bad, bad to the nth degree and it didn’t need to be. That’s the mark that you are dealing with something truly Bushian, that it is awful and unnecessarily so.
Wow, those are suitable for burning!
You know when your mom told you “if all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you follow them?”
Tonight is what she was talking about.
Thanks for your counsel Peterr – you are a true prince looking out for we west coast pups & sparing us the wasted time of watching this traditional media train wreck. Hugs.
No no! Wear it on your lapel.
((( ET )))
Even if you watch the first 5 minutes, I guarantee you’ll switch it off …
Run for your life, ET. Don’t. Bother. Please.
Thanks for the heads up. When I went over to watch the crowd reaction, I got a note saying it was currently unavailable. Will try later.
thanks, what did ya bring for everyone else?
Not in so many ferocious words…
dribs and drabs and in other ways…like at A*PAC forums.
Voting for Kyl- Lieberman, the Syria Accountability Act, against the ban on cluster bombs, etc.
Yes, it was new. Olbermann recognized that, as did Fineman. Doubt we’ll hear more about it elsewhere, but it seems Hillary has an “Umbrella Policy of Middle East Nuclear Deterrence.”
Which pisses Pat Buchanan off bigtime. He still thinks the President has to get a declaration of war from Congress!
Okay, would someone please enlighten me? What, exactly does, “Do you believe in the American flag?” mean. Sounds idolatrous to me. But then, you must remember that I swallowed my flag lapel pin earlier tonight.
Has he been passed out since 1941?
You’re quite welcome. Having been a west coast pup myself until last fall, I understand the value of the service.
A whole new generation of young Fox putzes out there…
-G
what a quaint idea. :/
Thanks for that link. I think I’ve got the gist of the “debate” without having to suffer through it. There is a great deal of backlash already. That’s the good news. People are paying attention.
Which pisses Pat Buchanan off bigtime. He still thinks the President has to get a declaration of war from Congress!
thanks – I wasn’t sure I heard that right. Does that statement get filed under “dripping irony” or under the more general “hypocrisy” file?
ABC is rightly being butchered on their own site by comments savaging the debate’s content and tone. I hope everyone really pours it on. I once respected Charles Gibson, but no more. Disgusting.
Translation: Do you believe in wrapping yourself in the flag and pissing on the Constitution?
But thank God Charles Gibson’s stock options will be taxed at 15%.
All money wether its a paycheck for working or a trust fund check because yur grandfather worked should be taxed equally.
Charlie has given us some good material for TV ads if we want to push the issue.
I am expecting some backlash in the polls to materialize another anti media “Tweety Effect”
egads.
The ABC debate moderators were horrible tonight, but no more so than the NBC moderators in earlier debates.
Moreover, for KO to complain about bias is really rich. Night after night he wantonly violates journalistic standards by cheerleading for Obama.
I think both of our very good candidates have been treated unfairly by the media. Up until tonight, Clinton has been treated more harshly. Tonight the opposite was true and, frankly, Obama did not handle it well.
That being said, I doubt many minds were changed tonight. Obama will be our nominee.
ABC is rightly being butchered on their own site by comments savaging the debate’s content and tone.
Where can I find these, please?
As a lot of you know I’m an Edwards supporter. My primary comes up in May (Kentucky). My plan was to write in Edwards name if neither Clinton nor Obama closed the sale with me. I can tell you that after tonight while I’m still not ready to vote Obama there is absolutely NO WAY I would vote for Clinton. I can’t believe that she used the scurrilous questions directed at Obama (”bitter”, Wright, flag pins & the Weathermen)to score political points. How pathetic. She should have condemned those questions but instead she stooped so low I’m surprised we could see her head above the podium. I was so angry that I couldn’t even watch the 2nd hour of the debate. I will not reward Senator Clinton with a vote for her dishonorable performance.
Let’s not forget Snuffie’s role in this. As a former Bill Clinton White House operative, I really think his inclusion in this debate as a moderator is outrageous.
Hey digg it for Eli!
Another weast of the voters time… dumb question after dumb question. Did we learn anything about the candidate that matters or change your vote… no!
What a complete wast of time. As Eli asked Where were questions about torture or maybe “Do you think Bush be held accountable and if so will you have your AG investigate the Bush administration? Oh well I really didn’t expect to learn anything anyway from this exercise in dumbed down political discourse…
From mediabistro.com’s TVNewser:
Obviously, Charlie Gibson wasn’t in the room when Cochran was asking that question.
Here. 6746 comments and counting.
Per Matthew Ygelsias:
That about sums it up for me, but it truly is just disappointing
Lotsa US flag, not much United States Constitution.
You really have to wonder what they were thinking, not just Gibson and Stephano but the whole ABC News department, their producers, everybody. They didn’t just go off the rails. They blew up the bridge, destroyed the station, and burned down the town. It was beyond pathetic and that this was a team effort ultimately, well what does that say about your news team?
They’re up to 6750 and counting.
thanks
Here is the phone number for ABC 818=460-7477. According to the woman I talked to earlier tonight this number goes directly to their recorder so you don’t have to go through the operator. She also told me that they were being bombarded with phone calls and that a lot of the callers were rude. She thanked me for being nice. I told her that I wasn’t a Clinton supporter or an Obama supporter but I just had to call to complain about the awful questions that were asked during the first hour of the debate.
Outrageousness abounds. As Stephy most assuredly stabbed Bill Clinton in the back, where does his allegiance currently lie?
As long as it is a dem you vote for in the GE, vote your choice in the primary.
See, this is what they get for listening to Sean Hannity instead of us.
I mean, shouldn’t you be taking your cues on what questions to ask from, y’know, the party of the people actually casting the votes???
Hundreds of thousands of people on the verge of losing their homes (and many already have)…not one question raised by the moderators.
Food inflation moving well into double digits. Food riots beginning abroad. Not one question from the moderators.
Global warming threatening to make New Orleans-like disasters pervasive and rising sea levels forcing people inland and the river and deltaic systems of Seattle, San Francisco, the Chesepeake, etc. Not interesting, apparently.
Anything about schools, health care costs, ignoring the best scientific minds on any number of issues instead of pandering to relying on “prayer”, NADA!
But making George and Charlie pay some additional taxes on their Social Security and Investments. BOY! That’s important! Oh and gotta get that tax out of the fuel costs…that’s gonna be a long range solution to the collapsing highway infrastructure in this country. Yessirree! But George and Charlie’s will be able to run their Mercedes, BMW and Hummers cheaper! Or do their have stretch Limousines?
Busy signal now . . . .
I applaude you and say amen and amen.
talk about out of touch
bah, lame, gotta create an account on ABC. Fuck them.
That is the local ABC number here in LA. They are just an affiliate.
I called the headquarters back in NY
ABC Switchboard: 212-456-7777
It’s important to call G&C out on their clear conflicts. These debates are supposed to be for Americans, not just rich Americans. Spending all this time on capital gains and social security caps, and ONE MINUTE on gas prices, without mentioning any of the items on your list, shows G&C’s clear bias.
They are asking questions THEY care about, because they are MILLIONAIRES.
Among the multitudinous objections to the ABC-hosted Democratic debate is why Gibson or his producers would give airtime to the opponent of his debaters. The point of interviewing these candidates via a flawed “debate” format is so that viewers can learn more about them in order to decide who to vote for.
Silly me, only a competent journalist would find that objectionable. Let’s dispense with the cant and give Gibson a top hat, breeches and a whip to wear in his three-ring circus. He’s certainly given up journalism. What he does now pays much better.
In my opinion…of course I’m just a puny college instructor making about $25,000/year who still has to bring cup-o’noodles to school for lunch…the real elitists showed their colors tonight.
Lemme see…I’d have to save all of my $25,000 for ten years before making that $250,000 that Hillary and the so-called moderators considered “Middle Class”?
right on
Slays me these millionaire talking heads pretending that they have any idea about what issues are of concern to the rest of us
At the end of the debate, there was a spot for the GMA program with a feature called “The Complainer’s Diet.” I think that’s it. Maybe that was by design to tamp down the voices. Clever.
Yeah, I had to spit my water out on that one. $250,000. Hell, i beleive that only 11-12% of the population makes over 100,000 a year. Let me go find the linky
or was it 5%
Two headlines elegantly illustrate the state of the traditional media. The subject is Bush’s belated awareness that his planet’s warming is not because he worked out too hard on his bike. Guess which editor knows his or her business and which is trying to make inroads against the US’s traditional media.
From McClatchy:
Bush sets climate change goal; scientists say it’s far short
From the Guardian’s “American” edition:
Bush wants to halt emissions growth
http://www.mcclatchydc.com
http://www.guardian.co.uk/america
And y’know…if this sort of stuff keeps up people like Bill Ayers (or whatever his name is) are gonna look like prophets before their time. If things get much worse people are actually going to point out the arrogance of the MSM and then say, thanks for remindin’ us about our Second Amendment Rights.
One would think that these people would have some sensitivity about what’s happening to many people in this country. Their ARROGANCE by utterly ignoring the issues that are of concern to people today was almost akin to the Marie Antionette statement of “Let Them Eat Cake”.
Disgusting. And Pathetic.
Hmm can’t find it, so you will all have to use teh google to find the actual percentage.
This would make a strong LTE. or letter to ABC.
Bill Moyers?
Froomkin had a nice dissection today of Bush’s “new” global warming effort.
My guess is that those making >$100K a year comprise far fewer than twenty-five or fifteen per cent. I would guess no more than 10%. Those making a quarter million or more would be in low single digits.
The top 1% have always been among the income elite. (Though not all in that income bracket favor elitism.) It’s the top 0.1%’s income, a bracket whose average income and share in dollars of the total has skyrocketed during Shrub’s unity government.
I’m watching it now, and it’s interesting to read about what happened before the QA actually comes up!
Preview is my friend. In my last sentence, I meant to say that the real news is the amount made by the those in the top 1% and 0.1% brackets. Croesus would be jealous.
John Paulson, a hedge fund manager paying a top rate of 15% on his “earnings”, made US$3.5 Billion last year. He and his pals nevertheless claim that it would stifle “innovation” and “risk taking” if he had to pay the same rate of tax as presidents or generals or even ordinary millionaire CongressCritters.
It’s a train wreck that goes on and on and on. Almost everyone reached their limit at some point.
Thanks. The number you provided is actually the number I called. Evidently the recorder that they transfer you to for messages is in LA. I guess the one in NY was all Full. LOL
… ABC … should be rechristened …. KKK
Um, so explain to me again why the candidates don’t just get some reasonable folks to host the debate and have it televised on CSPAN? Seriously, there seems to be way too much media control of this campaign for either Dem candidates good. Weird stuff–why do they have to go along with it at all?
That having been said, I think Obama won on personality and pose and Hillary won on one or two substantive issues. Also, I bet she doesn’t answer the Bosnian “sniper” question again with anything as stupid as what she did in this debate…after listening to her explanation of lying about what actually happened on that trip I felt like upchucking…how is someone who talks like that and doesn’t seem to miss a beat going to get anyone to believe her? Cuz now I’m wonderin’ about what else she’ll say to get elected…and what she may cover up once she is. I guess I’d still rather see her be President than McHypocrite.
All this is leading me to the strong conclusion that the American governmental system has truly been broken…or at least separated from the actual needs of average Americans. There doesn’t seem to be much respect for our intellects, little respect for our rights, not much concern about any moral imperative from our leaders…it seems to be more and more about lying to get what you want…or, rather, for what the people who pay you want. Very depressing.
Didn’t Gibson -(don’t you wanna just pinch the shit out of the remainder of his nose) actually lean back at the end and say “..it was a fabulous debate”? I know he said F… something ..or maybe that was ME who said F*#$&$@&, MY ASS!
I’m as pissed now as I was the first time I saw those cute baby seals get clubbed!
Dodd/Edwards 2008
Woohoo!
A job for Dubya in the next administration?
How about Parks and Forests – must be some brush that needs clearing somewhere!
In this post’s “update,” how is “snipergate” comparable to “bittergate?” Hillary completely makes up events in an attempt to improve her image. Barack gets jumped on for saying something that’s basically true.
Asking Hillary why she plainly lied is a completely fair question that should be asked. Asking Barack about a story completely fabricated by his opponent doesn’t seem necessary.
These two “issues” should not be given moral equivalency. Just falls into the “they both suck” category, even though there are big differences between the two.
The question is: WTF was that?
and the answer is:
Next question: Had enough?