Zed!

aargh

Fuck ABC!!

pathetic. The whole thing is pathetic.

ABC should be ashamed. But then again I think that the concept of shame was lost in public discourse a long time ago.

ABCyouFAIL.org

is there an issue question yet?

Fuck Disney!

These are some light weight questions, sounds like they’re coming right out of the McCain Playbook …

what teddy said

At least my BoSox have came roaring back with 6 runs in the top of the 5th…! ;-0

They’ve been asking issue questions since the 50-minute mark, but they’re all gotchas.

I had to turn the sound off. This reminds me of all those posts that Glenn Grenwald has done about all the Very Serious People of the Beltway. They have enabled the last 7 years of disasters and do nothing but ask one incredibly stupid question after another.

I guess we should expect this. Having been willing participants to the carnage and mayhem for 7 years and completely wrong about everything, they are hardly likely to reform now.

Okay, that’s funny!

I just told my cat to go eat a mouse, real slow.

Gotchas and Republican talking points.

Those at the upper end of the SS INSURANCE scale will be getting benefits that exceed what they paid in. SSI should be more “progressive” at the upper end. Instead it is “capped”. What’s up with that?

Charles Gibson, Instigative Journalist.

I think next time they ought to just get an animatronic HRC and Obama and let the “moderators” insult them for an hour or so. It would be the same thing.

what’s the email for abc news? ABC’s site makes it really hard to find a contact for the moderators. I wanna let’ em have it.

read it as BOTOX hahahahaha

Auchi on the corner of the plate this round fer sure!

Watch for it.

Sox scored six runs last inning! 9-7 Boston. Woo hoo.

Always have considered the BoSox to be the Dems of baseball and the Yanks to be the GOP of baseball.

Name the mouse Charlie Gibson, for good measure.

My cubbies are ahead 10-1 in the top of the 4th. Lots of scoring going on tonight—everywhere but in the debate.

I just opened a bottle of red wine …oh, by the way, all the rain you had is leaking from the 17th street canal now …

Looks like it’s time to talk about how the Democrats will take your guns away…

oh no. the 2nd amendment was quoted. can see where this is going.

yay! Guns!

Not only are they gotchas…they go off miseducating people about the economy…making it sound as if Bush has been doing things right.

Oh sh*T…NOW THEY QUOTE THE SECOND AMENDMENT?

Why not the FIFTH AMENDMENT!

Thanks for blogging this crap. I hate to think that I am fuming alone

guns are not that important charlie. just not that important. the NRA wins this round.

Why don’t you admit how much you hate guns, you dirty Democratic liars?

An apt analogy indeed…! 8-)

and then on to gays … completing the Repug sliming of the Dems …

Or 1? or 4?

God forbid they should talk about the amendments that have been flushed down the toilet by the Bush Crime Family.

Several ABCNews contact email forms here

oh goody – guns.

I wish more people would actually read the Second Amendment – it simply does not say what 99% of America think it says…

Looks like it’s time to talk about how the Democrats will take your guns away…

so next will be taking our lovers away

Social security ‘tax’ is a retirement and disability insurance premium that allows you to, in an economic sense, invest in the whole economy with a risk-return profiel that is far to supier than any existing financial investiment fund. Better than stocks and bonds, better that gold and silver, better than real estate, better than moon rocks and old stamps.

Gibson does not know what he is talking about.

To ask questions with questionable premises and badger the candidates when they will not agree to play along with BS, that is very unprofessional.

Need an organized campaign to question the competence and professionalism of these too very poor very ignorant moderators.

there are no more issues more important than this. none. jeebus.

Josh Lyman has a secret plan to stop inflation.

Charles Gibson, Instigative Journalist.

Man, I want some of whatever it is that you’re drinking or smoking…

oooh guns!!! When is religion gonna come up?

Ain’t that the truth… 8-(

Are you serious about the canal? I hope that gets alot of coverage, too. A little update on the recovery.

I thought many of the earlier debates were weak but this is in an entirely different class. This is transcendentally stupid. This is stupid on steroids with some meth thrown in. This is so stupid that even primordial ooze is ashamed to claim a link with these guys.

Hillary talking about more cops and assault weapons ban. Cops being “outgunned” by military-style weapons.

Tracking illegal guns. Yes, that would be good.

I think we should take all the Republicans guns. /s

Howdy, folks. On the bright side, I can’t wait to see either one of these two against McCain. Imagine the “there you go again” comment against both the moderators AND the idiotically-grinning McCain… priceless.

Didn’t Obama do a thesis or something on the Second Amendment (or was that from the Feingold bio? – having senile moment here)

Crown Royal — Clinton’s choice of drink after a long, hard day!

yes, but don’t expect either of these two millionaire pundits to know anything about those.

Exactly, they neglect the well, regulated militia part…!

Didn’t we see a poll a couple of months ago that showed Americans don’t trust the media? Maybe most everyone understands that this is a set-up.

LOL

A Hillary omen????

Let’s hope! Oops, hope, Obama trademark. Let’s pray. Nope, GOP trademark. Let’s keep our fingers crossed. That’s a good one for Hillary. (Get it?)

Well, now I’m bitter

so next will be taking our lovers away

Wait a minute – I’m a Democrat. I’m allowed to have a lover? Shit – the time wasted…

Hill: We will strike the balance between constitutional right and keeping people safe.

Several ABCNews contact email forms here

THANK YOU Teddy!

uh huh….crap

Hillary is handling this well…mentioning a lot about how the police are being attacked, etc….”balance”.

Josh Marshall:

8:44 PM … Hillary: The Republicans are so bad that I have to become one to save the Democratic party.

Don’t take up the bait, Obama. Talk about torture or something.

Who said that?

Yes, but they have to be a Republican. An ugly one.

don’t forget taking away birth control and replacing it with millions of dollars on just say no

It is stupid,

but in the ensuing organized, outraged public campaign to call this disgraceful show to account we need to emphasize that the moderators are
1) unprofessional and 2) incompetent.

Obama: Guns and hunting are culturally important.

Me: I don’t see what the problem with *registering* guns is.

Charlie Gibson is just playing gotcha nonstop

this is juvenile.

Josh Rawks!

Yes, but they have to be a Republican. An ugly one.

I thought I remembered there being something in the fine print…..

CHARLIE IS HITTING OBAMA and im gettin pissed

Gibson and Stephano need to attend their Idiots Anonymous meetings more often. They have really fallen off the wagon.

Obama: Get past the politics and start focusing on what actually works to reduce gun violence.

wow, the nra must have paid a lot of money for this.

Steve Benen hits it on the head:

About half an hour into tonight’s debate in Philadelphia, Barack Obama warned that the political world had become “obsessed” with “distractions” and “gaffes.”
Watching the debate, I think he wasn’t just talking to the political world in general. In a 90-minute forum, the first 45 minutes included the following topics, in this order:

1. The “bitter” controversy

2. The Jeremiah Wright controversy

3. The Bosnia “sniper fire” story

4. The flag-pin question

5. The William Ayers story

When the candidates would try to suggest that these issues are unrelated to the challenges facing the country, they were ignored.

Anyone tuning in, hoping for a substantive discussion of actual issues was left wanting, at least for the first 45 minutes.

One gets the distinct impression that the debate is geared towards the chattering class, not the nation at large.

Gibson apparently says Obama is a liar…Obama insists he has NEVER supported a ban on handguns.

Horay for Clinton for the “FourthBranch” comment!

That’s the only race on tonight … ‘The Gotcha Mile’ between George and Chuck …

now you’d think that the moderators could jump in and ask about the supreme court? naw… more gotcha

They should point out that Western towns in the 1800’s told men coming into towns had to turn in their guns at the sheriffs office!

I’m guessing these clowns won’t get too many scoops from the Obama administration.

Maybe a FOX debate would be the equivalent of this. (West coast)

707!!! Good one!

DISNEY HATES BLACKS

…And as you know, they were all killed by terrorists.

had me roflmao

I’m crossing my fingers to see KO go after Gibson & Co for the inanity of the questions.

Charlie Gibson is just playing gotcha nonstop

a Russert wannabe?

Affirmative action question? wow… that’s topical with all the other issues that could be discussed. could it be because they just found out tonight that Obama is a [gasp] a black guy?

hey – let’s talk about race some more ok? Fuck a whole buncha ABC

Why can’t collectors “plug” their automatic weapons? Why can’t a member of any REAL militia be registered? Would a “militia” be well-regulated if it allowed mentally ill or abusers to carry guns around in their cars?

Here’s my email to ABCNews tonite:

I was shocked at the “gotcha” questions, incorrect assumptions (taxcuts RAISE revenue??), and biased premises in tonight’s debate.

Your millionaire broadcasters should be ashamed. Americans learned nothing tonight except that ABC doesn’t care to educate them about the issues, where Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton stand, and who to vote for.

Bring back the League of Women Voters!

Write ABCNews here

Obama picking his way very carefully through affirmative action response.

He will be doing an analysis. Hope Rachel is with him.

Someone would actually want to be that?

So I guess the take home message here is that Charlie Gibson wants to keep capital gains taxes low so he can maximize his profits selling guns and flag lapel pins.

To quote Jon Stewart, “These people are killing America” It wasn’t just Crossfire, it’s all of them.

Disney REALLY hates gay blacks…

“Well-regulated” conflicts with “shall not be infringed”, I think. The 2nd Amendment is very poorly written, IMHNALO.

you might think that the moderators would ask about oh, I don’t nkow, healthcare.

Oh ES, you are such an enabler.
I can’t bear to watch. I just put on some classical music, but will read along here.

There should be no televised debates, only radio (or even print). It is so much clearer when you are not watching the candidates. It wasn’t until – excuse me for a moment: DAMN RED SOX! – I listened to a debate on NPR that I changed my support from Edwards to Clinton. She was clearly, and by FAR, the most knowledgeable and had the most depth on the issues.

Obama wants to expand affirmative action beyond race and sex….Clinton says the same thing…but kind of says it should be a general thing but not deal with helping some individuals. Getting high green marks for it.

These twits are trying to set Obama against black voters.

Hillary will get tough on oil price gouging.

im appalled at dumb and dumber

I started to follow the link to ABC to bitch, but you know, it really is the fault of the candidates.

They need to reject the framing and fire back.

“really, Charlie, those statistics sound improbable, but let me check them out after the show and i’ll get back to you.”

I’m sorry, Charlie, i could waste time answering that, but i know the people voting in this election are more concerned about the future Mccain administration possibly continuing the thousand disastrous policies of Bush/Cheney/rumsfeld/rove, so let me talk about ____ instead.

Cheers

HRC: investigate gas prices. Gas tax moratorium? $4 a gallon gas, how about talking about viable mass transit?

Hill: Windfall tax -> Highway trust fund.

Long-term energy strategy, energy independence.

Do you like the way she’s been running her debate?

Atrios sayd … ABC switchboard: 212-456-7777 “Pass it on”

Hillary talks about Gas…talks about windfall profits tax and the scale is off the map!

You want to know the real source of bitter? It is having these witless journos masturbate on primetime as the country sinks around them.

winfall profits tax……….DISNEY WILL BE PISSED

Obama emphasizing fuel efficiency and alternative energy. Excellent.

And Snuffy asks the first truly excellent question of the debate.

You know, most who heard the 1960 Nixon/Kennedy debates on the radio thought Nixon had won, compared to teevee viewers who thought Kennedy won. Radio favors the in-depth detail-oriented candidate, while teevee favors the more glamorous candidate: that was the conclusion pundits, including Teddy White, came away with.

But I fear that the days of radio debates are over, especially after quality products like tonite’s!

How to use George W?

How about as a door stop.

Obama is not getting much traction on his gas response. Even his “Manhattan Project” for fuel efficiency didn’t.

Extremely unprofessional editorializing by Gibson. FIRE HIM

He called Obama liar and did not allow Obama to respond.
Now he inserts GOP advert into HRC response.
Basing questions on doubtful premises and then badgering candidates when they will not play along.

Seriously -we want Gibson suspended
-we want Gibson banend from future debates.
-we want Gibson fired.
-we need to call what Gibson for what he is -incompetent and biased.

“How would you use George W. Bush?” Oh, the possibilities…

Obama: create alternative energy strategy…

HRC: how would you use Bush as a former president? Laughter. He should be too busy defending himself in the Hague.

“An apt analogy indeed…!”

And looks like “Obama” is coming back.

Oh noooooooooo!! two more runs by Obama!

snort

Human shield?

obama pandering to george H?

Isn’t that an insult to doorstops? At least they do their job.

Obama: would seek counsel of GHW Bush, not W.

Obama is not getting much traction on his gas response. Even his “Manhattan Project” for fuel efficiency didn’t.

*sigh*
if only we’d done that thirty years ago.

true

LOL

Final question coming up next. Place your bets on whether it’s about torture.

I’m betting $50 against.

How to use George W?

I thought she could have said:
“Maybe I’ll buy a ranch and ask him to come clear the brush.”

point well taken.

Okay, I am officially recommending that the Geico cavemen moderate the next debate. Couldn’t possibly be worse.

I hereby award Hillary big points for not going for the easy answer when she was asked how she might “use” George W.Bush.

I know *I* couldn’t have let that one pass.

mercifully, this “debate” er republican talking points fest is ending soon.

The analogy was the Yanks were the Goopers… Not between Obama and Hill, and Lugo chalks up another error…! 8-(

He might already be a door stop.
How ’bout a GW door mat? Or pooper scooper?

Atrios sayd … ABC switchboard: 212-456-7777 “Pass it on”

I just called … left message for news department

if you ask for News and wait through some nonsense … then press 2 you can leave a message for #199 for “other news”

The best person to seek counsel from is Dubya. Then do exactly the opposite.

Was it a different ABC that broke that torture story?

How to use George W?

How about as a door stop.

Compost?

I’ll bet the farm.

My guess is “lobbyists or Campaign Finance”…

So what’s the last question?

“GWB & friends lurv torture, waddaya think?”

Josh Marshall:

9:29 PM … I don’t watch a lot of nightly news. Is Charlie Gibson usually this bad?

9:31 PM … This is awful.

’m betting $50 against.

Sucker bet. No thanks.

I thought her response was pretty good as it was. Pretty much the most tactful way to say that he’s completely useless.

Yanks are up 11-9 at the end of the 5th.

Use W – hillary said the country must come together – does that mean the pardons? At least Obama didn’t go that route!

I know, but I also noted in another post that the Sox scoring six and coming back was hopefully like ol’ Hill, thereby annointing Hill the Red Sock and obama the Yank.

Obama has come back strong.

It really could be a metaphor for this primary season.

I think our candidates need to take debate prep from Dick Cheney. Both of them, especially our eventual nominee, need to learn to say, loudly and with intent to intimidate: “I REJECT THE PREMISE OF YOUR QUESTION, [insert millionaire broadcaster name here]”

Americans like to see their millionaire media celebrities bossed around. Democrats need to do more of it.

It would seem so. But then again, there was no follow-up and they buried it when?

Didn’t Snuffy used to be a Democrat? Did I hallucinate that? Is he overcompensating?

Atrios sayd … ABC switchboard: 212-456-7777 “Pass it on”

I just called … left message for news department

if you ask for News and wait through some nonsense … then press 2 you can leave a message for #199 for “other news”

That’s fine if you want to complain about the news, but I want to talk to the folks who put together this debate. What do you have to push to get through to the GOP Working Group office at ABC?

Or Howard Dean.

bomb sniffing dog in afghanistan

Dubya? How about “bait”? Put him some place in Iraq and have the withdrawal occur in the other direction.

Looks like it’s going to be a religion question. Fab.

How to use George W?

Chum for shit eating fish…

finally, my favorite amendment!

He was a Clintonista. So what column does that put him in?

ROFLMAO

“freedom of speech”? what about the damn fourth amendment?

Katie Couric’s lookin’ pretty good right now.

Fascinating? Only for you Chuckie… you moron

No, but I think he worked for the Clintons.

The generic one could be called Gooper Pooper Scooper.
Lots of us have dogs. Anyone up for that?

A catfight question.

So the final question is basically, Why should we vote for you?

Very incisive and… job-interviewy.

Will Bunch:

Gibson promises one last question — I shudder to think. He’s probably using his lifeline to call Glenn Beck at home to come up with something.

Fascinating debate sez Gibson.

he would but this isn’t about you, pal.

Hillary is ready to be Commander In Chief, she knows generals and admirals and stuff.

I want to talk to the folks who put together this debate. What do you have to push to get through to the GOP Working Group office at ABC?

I think you need the phone number for the White House.

HRC, ready to be the commander in chief

Ahem…Hillary…the SUPERDELEGATES are Special Interests, many of whom (not all) who would be antagonistic to your pleas.

The comments line is overwhelmed… operator told me to call back in a few.

Katie Couric’s lookin’ pretty good right now.

that’s just sad.

worst.”debate”.ever.

lines are busy at the moment LMAO

That’s a heck of a lot longer than a minute.

BREAKING NEWS: Democratic Debate Takes on Civil Tone After Week of Personal Attacks

Headline on ABC News. I kid you not.

The forgot the Predicate: After 51 Minutes of Amateurish Gotcha Hatchet Job Gooper Blastfax supplied questions from anti-Moyers moderators,….

I really like Obama’s defining moment/tipping point frame.

I think he worked for the Clintons.

Oh, you bet he did. From Wiki:

Clinton administration

Stephanopoulos was, along with David Wilhelm and James Carville, a leading member of the 1992 Clinton campaign. His role on the campaign is portrayed in the documentary film The War Room.[2] At the outset of Clinton’s presidency, Stephanopoulos served as the de facto press secretary, briefing the press even though Dee Dee Myers was officially the White House Press Secretary. Later, he was moved to Senior Advisor on Policy and Strategy, when Dee Dee Myers began personally conducting the briefings and David Gergen was brought in as the new White House Communications Director. The move was largely viewed as a rebuke to Stephanopoulos’ handling of public relations during the first six months of the Clinton Administration.

On Feb. 25, 1994 George Stephanopoulos and Harold Ickes had a conference call with Roger Altman to discuss RTC’s choice of Republican lawyer Jay Stephens to head the Madison Guaranty investigation, that later turned in to the Whitewater investigation. [3]

During his tenure in the White House, Stephanopoulos was known to arrive at work by 6:00 AM every day.

His 1999 memoir, entitled All Too Human: A Political Education, was published after he left the White House during Clinton’s second term. It quickly became a #1 New York Times best seller. In his book, Stephanopoulos spoke of his depression and how his face broke out into hives due to the pressures of conveying the Clinton White House message. Bill Clinton referred to the book in his autobiography, My Life, apologizing for what he felt in retrospect to be excessive demands placed on the young staffer.

George Stephanopoulos is also a member of the Bilderberg Group.

A catfight question.

Hill brings the stump speech.

And so does Obama.

yawn.

did anyone learn anything from this dreck tonight?

Marion got it first … well done!

I guess they’re just talking about the candidates.

HRC, ready to be the commander in chief

Great. What does she have to say about the other, far more important parts of the job?

BREAKING NEWS: Democratic Debate Takes on Civil Tone After Week of Personal Attacks

Headline on ABC News. I kid you not.

The forgot the Predicate: After 51 Minutes of Amateurish Gotcha Hatchet Job Gooper Blastfax supplied questions from anti-Moyers moderators,….

that’s just sad.

Not one damn question about oath job one, the Constitution.

Yes. I’m really glad I don’t own a television.

Urgh. Thank God it’s over.

If you have seen Gibson much on the ABC evening news, you know he has been a cheerleader for the war in Iraq. Most recently he was complaining about the FAA and their foolish safety inspections, not the greedy airlines who blew them off because they thought they could get away with it. That he is a Republican shill is hardly surprising almost everyone in the MSM is. After 7 years of not reporting on Bush for what he is and what he has done, how could we expect Gibson and Stephano to be anything other than what they are, willing tools.

that was a big DISGRACE!!!!!!!!11

besides the fact that gibson and stephanopoulis are fools?

debate? i thought it was a shake down over all the rumours and innuendo either of them had faced

I learned that there’s at least one Hillary supporter on this thread.

did anyone learn anything from this dreck tonight?

I learned a hell of a lot about Charlie Gibson. Does that count?

Keith’s up.

that is a bit ‘airy’ argument.

on the bright side, at least it’s over… okay, time for a beer and KO!

Keith is on.

707!

KO up now, talking about Snuff being fed questions by Sean Hannity….

Obama needs to have some “crescendos” in his speech…pretty much within one range. Just a little rise here and there to let people know WHEN he’s making his “money point”. Clinton does it all the time. Obama needs to learn that art in debate. He does it in his speeches.

did anyone learn anything from this dreck tonight?

Yes, ABC News is even worse than I thought.

Ha! I debated whether on not to place a snark tag on my reply. Always worth pointing out the questioneer worked for Clinton. (Ridiculous)

KO on

He is hitting them already.

Lil bit had got his question for Hannity

KO: startlingly tabloid debate

OK everyone on the West Coast, you don’t have to bother.

someone emails :

Check out the outraged viewers that have left more than 4,000 comments over at ABC news’ website on the debate.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics…..id=4666956

Chuck Todd sez bad nite for BHO

Very tough for Obama

I used to watch ABC news with Jennings years and years ago. Wonder what kind of spin I was getting from them in the 80’s.

second that.

Chuck Todd, tough night for Obama. There hasn’t been a lot about Aires to date, and this is coming up more as an issue. Clinton went with this too. He doesn’t think Clinton helped herself.

did anyone learn anything from this dreck tonight?

You’re joking, right?

Gibson’s ‘last queston’ was a stupid set up for a last statement.

So, that mess is over. How do we start an organized protest about this junk.

no healthcare
no surveillance
no torture, and executive law breaking
no mortgage crisis,for regualar people,
no global warming or environment
economic questions were spun as tax increase gotchas
–so nothing about regulation

Bad TV folks. ABC News New York 212-595-3640.

Well, here’s what I have to say about it

Well we will have to see how it plays out.

The whole Ayers line of questioning was so shallow and for hillary to jump in, well it is politics but still sleazish in my book.

I had respect for Jennings. Not for anyone since. And back then I didn’t have the blogs to fact check him.

ABC is not to blame. I agree with whoever said they they need to
REJECT THE PREMISE OF THE QUESTION AND DECONSTRUCT THE QUESTIONS.

This would be hugely entertaining and a huge winner for the base, AND THIS IS A PRIMARY STILL!

Cheers

GET JAKE TAPPER OFF MY teeVee

Now we get the “pundits” (with apologies to the Hindu linguists out there) who will continue to make nonsensical statements about what just happened.

Chuck Todd sez bad nite for BHO

Very tough for Obama

This fight judge scores it 7 rounds to 5 – Clinton.

wow … people in audience yelling at them …

When gas hits $4 a gallon will the average American making $250,000 a year be able to afford to drive to work?

America’s Next Top Model it is, then!

Who?!!

(gets out ak-47).

I’ll take care of that little bugger!

lol ‘the crowd is turning on me’ no kidding cupcake

Is that a reverse spoiler alert?

bad linky

“The crowd’s turning on me,” Grandpa Charlie jokes as he goes to commercial.

Either a world-class self-absorbed doofus or….

Keith, Pres Clinton pardoned weather underground people.

The crowd started shouting about how GS and CG did their hatchet job. “The crowds turning on me!”

bound to be more informative than the drek we all just suffered through.

wouldn’t you after THAT line of questioning? Gee, senator obama, tell me why all your friends are whackos? Gee, senator clinton, do you have the slightest attachment to reality or do you just LIE all the time

I switched to KO.. Do you mean yelling at the moderators?

Well to be fair, the economy did get almost as much attention as flag lapel pins although a lot less than the capital gains tax.

Explain?

It’s a Don’t Bother alert. Far more relevant than a spoiler alert. Charlie Gibson and Georgie spoiled it bad.

What???

ab-so-effing-lutely

What? Where?

I am serious, what kind of public action would be effective against this sad display of partisan hackery, unprofessionalism and incompetence?

First off they wasted the first hour of the debate on junk. They could have compressed all that junk into one question on credibility, or something.

Second off, there was the unprofessionalism of the rest of the debate.

Gibson and Stuffanappleupyourass…you two suck.

-G

Chuck Todd defending the questions asked tonight. Do I get nuked if I call *him* a *****?

Mod note: Yes.

sorry
http://icanhascheezburger.com/…..e2%88%91p/

The electronic media are overrun with megalomaniacs. That’s what happens when you pay people who read off of monitors words someone else has written for them a bazillion dollars a year. They come to believe they actually deserve it, but since it can’t be for any actual work, it must be for their unique and singularly stellar selves!

That’s right/too subdued. I wonder if the scrutiny/snark has gotten to him. He seemed sort of depressed to. Stuff like that Ayres story, Muslim, etc is all so mean, pointless. And Charlie looks sort of overwhelmed; maybe he knows he blew it.

yeah .. you couldn’t hear what they said but there was definite disgruntled yelling

Oh, that goes WAAAAAY beyond 707!

Sean Hannity suggested that William Ayers question. Classy, George. I guess Obama not going on Fox is catching up to him.

Call to action at the Orangerie

Keith clip: Two months since the last one. Clinton down ten points in Pennsylvania.

That was two hours of my life I’ll never get back.

Oh for the opportunity for another Jon Stewart “You’re ruining America” moment.

I can’t even bear to watch Keith at this point. It’s all just gawdawful.

Thanks, though!

sorry, RBG.

I thought the Weather Underground sang ‘It’s Raining Men’ and I thought they were supporting McCain?

-G

They cut back after a commentary and there were several people shouting at Gibson and Stephanopolous from the audience. It was hard to hear what was being sid but the shouters didn’t sound happy…and it wasn’t a chant…just lots of people sounding angry.

Then Gibson said “The audience is turning on us”.

Maybe Charlie Gibson can go off and start a journalism department with Brit Hume.

yep.

We’ve switched to TCM to watch Buster Keaton in the General. As my spouse just said, it rates higher in the intelligence scale.

So Clinton believes that Sean Hannity’s questions deserve “respect”?

I think Bush has some space in his lie-berry.

Then Gibson said “The audience is turning on us”.

Yeah, I wonder why?

Cannot believe hillary linked farrakahn, hamas, wright all together? (on KO now)

Wow, Hillary’s answer (just replayed on KO) linked Obama to Farrakhan and the leader of Hamas.

Let’s start with boycotting ABC, Disney Channel, Disneyland, Disney World, Disney videos…..

and the Orangerie will be developing advertiser lists.

Then Gibson said “The audience is turning on us”.

I should hope so. Disgraceful performance.

Olberman is on this. Big time.

No, but I think she’s gone on Fox. Obama has not yet… and I don’t think he will. But I might be mistaken.

What? Is he fluffing Clinton? What survey has her down by anywhere near that amount…I think this is just to suggest that a close Obama loss is a win for Hillary.

yep … charming eh?

That was two hours of my life I’ll never get back.

Yes, but look at it this way. If anyone ever asks you the day the mainstream media finally jumped the shark, you can proudly say you were there.

I already boycott everything but the grocery store, the pharmacy and the gas station. Not on purpose. Just kinda happens that way.

Let’s start with boycotting ABC, Disney Channel, Disneyland, Disney World, Disney videos….

Way ahead of ya….

barackobama.com

give a nickel, give a lot…let’s pump up his warchest and his contributor tally

Or with some embarrassment say I was there.

No, no. the advantage is with Obama.

I’ve been boycotting them for sometime

Fineman is a tool.

Fineman says McCain got his questions in by proxy. Good point.

Maybe Charlie Gibson can go off and start a journalism department with The Doughy Pantload

.

Small suggestion … just seems right to me.

Fine saying that Hillary saying she is “still” here is significant.

fineman is a toady

the first thing to do is the research some of the premises Gibson was so sure about in his questions, and unless Gibson can prove he was rock solid right about his fact (which he cannot) the ask about the professionalism of his questioning. Also document the editorializing.

That the hell difference does it make whether McCain has tiny little position that is the same as HRCs. That was interrupting the candidate to broadcast partisan McCain advertiding.

-boycott
But more important -A BIG public fuss about professionalism, neutrality and competence.

Hillary looking for her dignity: http://www.mockpaperscissors.com/?p=7381

Fineman

Nice work by Bill Clinton’s former stooge Stuffy.

-G

done..already on automatic monthly pay :) Mr wobbs is a ferener so he can’t contribute, so we do it together as a couple

Universally on the local ABC affiliate, from Gov. Rendell on down, there’s a resounding “PLEH” to the first hour of questions

As Nietzsche said, what does not turn my brain to jello only makes me stronger.

Gave yesterday to Obama. Wish it could be a million dollars.

Robinson saying on KO that the first half of the debate was tabloid. If people hadn’t been watching the news relentlessly, they wouldn’t have a clue what these questions were about.

I think a public outcry is just as important as a boycott.
ABC has tried to manipulate an election.
This is corporate crony capitalism masquerading as public serice in order to manipulate an election. It is banana republic type stuff.

leaning towards jello or hard-headedness?

KO makes a good point.. I don’t know about the William Airs/heirs story?

That’s hardly surprising, given her campaign’s slide into the dark side this last month (or so)

Yeah, it’s politics but that being said, i’m disappointed in Hillary but not surprised.

I never heard of it either.

KO: HRC was a proxy for McCain… lol. That’s about right. Obama will clean the floor with McVain.

Us too, but truly every lil bit counts

YES,YES,and YES!

That must be a case of McCainhausen Syndrome by Proxy then.

Bob Casey coming up on MSNBC.

Commenters over at ABC saying Peter Jennings is rolling over in his grave. I thought Peter Jennings was the best. Stayed on at ABC with Woodruff and Vargas. No reason to stay anymore.

it made a minor bubble a few months ago. Ayers was interviewed and said he still does not regret his decisions made in the 60s. I did not realize it was illegal to grow old and cling to your mis-guided (IMHO) beliefs.

KO calls Hillary a “stand-in for John McCain”

I guess but I’m still really bummed by her campaign. Yes, I’ll vote for her if she is the nominee but the tone of her campaign is really poking at my gag reflex

This is sort of OT…

I haven’t seen Kiddo or Lahoma around recently. Does anyone know why? I understand if they’re just “over it,” but I’d hate to think that something’s wrong…

See if Clinton had conceded defeat, we would not have felt it was our duty to watch this cretinous display of ABC shillery.

It’s been flowing around the rightwing cesspool for weeks. Hannity has had his little weenie chubbed out on this one for a while.

Then the peen-pudded George Stuffy offers that pablum up on a platter then Sen. Clinton wraps it up with Farrakhan and Hamas too.

They all suck.

-G

Gave $25 more today. And someone got one of my more pungent letters about the MSM and what a great thing they were doing by helping counter them.

Yay!!! It’s about time.

or if Obama had too!

Or if Obama had too!

(There, got it right this time)

The depressing thing is that the debate veered into pure contextless smear. What was this ‘board’ that Obama served on with the Weatherman guy?

It is not my intention to bash Hillary, I just want the dems to stick together, take the fucking high road and not hit each other with repug talking points ar acting like a repug. I must be asking too much but it just reeks of desparation

Charles Gibson, do you deny a relationship with known weatherman Al Roker?

-G

Important thing is to make a public outcry and spark public debate on the conduct of these debates.

Need to get open discussion of media bias and manipulation of democratic process.

This has just gone too far.

A charity board

Hey, CT no need to stay up and watch this shite.

I liked an earlier comment describing the debate as a shakedown.. It really was about how Republican can Yoo Democrats be?

Remember the ugliness that went down? That had to do with it but I’m sure we will see them once this primary is over

no more than john mccain can deny any association as a clansman.

What was this ‘board’ that Obama served on with the Weatherman guy?

Doesn’t matter – he *talked* to the guy, fer chrissakes. Obviously now unfit to govern.

No way.

Obama will have his clock cleaned by the Repubs.

Clinton knows what she’s doing. Dems are too idealistic or stubborn to see it.

Democrats will vote for the Democratic nominee no matter who it is, right?

Obama is getting the Democratic base vote right now. Clinton is getting the blue collar, more conservative vote. In other words, she is stealing votes from McCain for the general. Remember, it’s Dems who without question know we cannot have a Repub president again. They will vote for her or Obama.

But we have got to move the center and some on the right over to ensure a defeat of McCain. Clinton is doing that, and it’s her necessary tactics to do so that people are complaining about, but she’s right to be doing it.

per atrios:

Rendell is blasting the questions on the local ABC.

I don’t like Clinton but I would think it idiotic to question her patriotism. She is after all a Senator and running for the Presidency. Same for McCain whom I execrate. So where do these pompous empty fools get off questioning Obama’s patriotism because he didn’t wear a flag pin?

Casey: “Americans are concerned about a Third Bush Term, which is what McCain represents.”

She was at her best tonight when she was not taking pot shots at Obams …

I copied this from the NYtimes website:
ABC NEW YORK NEWSROOM: (212) 456-5100 newsradio@abc.com Newsroom Fax Machine 212.456.5150
Cristi LandesManager, Programming 212.456.5107 cristi.d.landes@abc.com
Wayne Fisk Director, Programming 212.456.5327 wayne.fisk@abc.com
Jeff Fitzgerald Executive Director, Operations 212.456.5554 jeffrey.t.fitzgerald@abc.com
Heidi Oringer Executive Director, Entertainment 212.456.5541 heidi.b.oringer@abc.com
Jon Newman News Coverage 212.456.5100 jonathan.m.newman@abc.com
Joyce Alcantara Assignment Manager 212.456.5106 joyce.a.alcantara@abc.com
Jim Kane Deputy D.C. Bureau Chief 212.222. 6604 james.f.kane@abc.com
Andrew Kalb Executive Director, Programming3 05.567.2269 andrew.l.kalb@abc.com
Robert Garcia Executive Director, News & Sports 212.456.5103 robert.garcia@abc.com
Peter Salinger (THE MAN IN CHARGE OF ELECTION COVERAGE) Director, Special Events & Sports 212.456.5105 peter.salinger@abc.com
Steve Jones Vice President ABC NEWS RADIO 212-456-5101steve.jones@abc.com

— Posted by BOYCOTT ABC

CT and other folks out west — for the love of all that’s holy, put down the remote, step away from the TV, and walk down to the beach!

Based on what? Do you have links to polling or charts that would back that up? How are you arriving at your ‘conclusions’?

you don’t need a weather man to tell which way the wind blows…

Were the moderators wearing flag pins?

KO sez the elitists were asking the questions, since the price of gas was a throwaway question.

I wonder if he’ll talk about why there wasn’t any talk of torture, or habeas, or health care.

Or if Obama had too!

(There, got it right this time)

I would agree with you if the math wasn’t running Obama’s way. There is almost no way Obama won’t win the nomination. So I wish that Clinton would read the writing on the wall, get over herself, and start trying to unify the Democratic Party instead of dividing it further.

Same way Charlie Gibson does.

Was Gibson wearing his flag pin when he asked the flag pin question? Is he patriotic enough to be moderating a “debate”?

I certainly hope so. I miss them both.

hahahahahaha

To paraphrase Olympia Dukakis in “Moonstruck”, “What you don’t know about politics is a lot.”

Wouldn’t you just love to get a look at the candidates’ internal polling? Drives me crazy not to know.

And what kind of name is Stephanapolous anyway? /s

As I recall Ayers said he didn’t regret blowing up gov’t property and destroying draft records. He said he did regret that people died…after all the people that died were members of his own group, but he also regretted that any innocents died in other attacks at the time. AIRC he was never convicted of being involved in any acts that led to deaths himself.

His statement about never regretting what they did was related to the attacks that destroyed property. In any case, he’s served his time…hasn’t been involved in any subsequent crimes for decades and by all measures is a positive force in his community. He hosted a meeting at his house with many different people some time ago, Obama attended.

What Hannity and Clinton want to do is try to make it so that if someone happens to attend a function with someone distasteful then you believe in the same things that person does. This is called “guilt by association”. It’s something that is found in fascist societies…not Democracies where people are generally allowed to say and hear controversial speech.

Oh, wow, THANKS!!!

He’s on TV! Nothing more American than that!

Will Bunch (aka Attytood) at Philly.com, with the final debate entry from his liveblog entitled “Gibson, Stephanapoulos outrage!“:

10:00 PM — OK, it’s finally over. Frankly, the questioning was so horrendous that it’s hard to determine what’s supposed to be important here — who “won” the debate. I thought they were both fairly flat and uninspiring; Obama is clearly the frontrunner and was playing defense, and in that sense it was fine for him. I would have like to seen him get more impassioned, turn the tables on his questioners — but that’s always a risk, and he was not in risk-taking mode. There were no “gaffes” by either candidate — Hillary was a little stronger on policy, as she often is, but I think a lot of Democratic voters cringed when she signed onto some of the tackier attack questions on Obama. The big loser, of course, was ABC, and perhaps the American people — but I think the American people are too smart for baloney. Stay tuned, because I’m hoping to do a more cohesive follow-up on the ABC debacle.

It’s Greek – for Wow Am I Dumb

Were the moderators wearing flag pins?

Millionaire media pundits don’t feel they have to show their patriotism. They think it is enough to own the place.

A question for those brave souls with the fortitude to have watched the debacle-debate (shudder!); Whom do you think the ‘wisdoms’ (all the usual suspects) will proclaim ‘Da Winnah!’?

We’ll see, won’t we?

Dems pissed at Gore and Kerry for not fighting Repubs hard enough. Now pissed at Clinton for having the balls to do so.

Sigh.

If only she would fight republicans. Wish she had.

Howard Wolfson on Obama: “If you can’t answer the questions, you try to change the subject.”

Sez there were lotsa substantive questions.

John McSame. he won because he didn’t have to subject himself to the humiliation. Also because Gibson, Georgie, and ABC were shilling for him.

Frankly I would like to see her hit McCain half as hard as she hits Obama……..

-G

KO asks whether the candidates shouldn’t simply refuse to appear at future debates unless there are substantive questions promised.

Was Gibson wearing his flag pin when he asked the flag pin question? Is he patriotic enough to be moderating a “debate”?

I’d ask the American people listening to that womans question IF THEY were wearing THEIR flag pins during the debate?! After all, not wearing your flag pin insults the troops and is UNAmerican.

Gotta assume that woman wears her flag pin when she is having patriotic sex….and her sole thought about it is that she’s making future Marines.

oh! there was a dee bait on the tee vee tonight? ho hummmmmm lol

she’s not dividing it. That’s just an Obama talking point. She has every right to stay in the race and the other states have every right to vote.

The winner gets 2025 delegates. Neither is going to achieve that. It is repugnant that people are asking her to just walk away.

If the Obama camp is so concerned about the party and believe so much damage is being done by a close primary, HE can step down.

How’s that sound?

The comments over at the ABC News post-debate story are amusing as well. Words like “embarrassment” and phrases like “ABC should be ashamed . . .” occur frequently.

She always is. When she talks about her policies and her stances on issues, she is fantastic, but when she does this other stuff, it takes away from her, from us finding out who she is (outside of Willy’s long suffering wife) and it drives up her negatives.

I thought they got a preview of questions …

The board Obama was on with Bill Ayres is The Woods Fund …

good folks doing good work

http://www.woodsfund.org/

Oh, she will if she’s the nominee. Obama apparently can’t because you all think it’s mean to “hit” your opponent and want to end harsh politics. And spare me the hitting Obama hard BS. She’s been hit a lot harder by the press and his camp. And if Obama can’t take “hard hits” (whatever they are), then I’d argue he’s not ready to be president. It’ a tough job, and people say very nasty things about you throughout.

And what kind of name is Stephanapolous anyway? /s

It’s Greek to me ;-)

It means “The City of Steve”, I think.

Howard Wolfson is hard assing it.

Give me a break. Hillary had enormous advantages before the primary started. And she’s LOSING. To a rookie. People don’t trust her.

Tiger Woods is connected to the Weather Underground? Who knew . . . ?

/snark

Why don’t they just get rid of the moderators? These television “news” people are so full of themselves, their egos take up all the space.

Have a computer moderate them from now on.

Not City of Stephanie?

But wolfson sez he’s a radical, and that hillary would have answered the questions about the weather COMMUTATIONS (not pardons) had they been asked by the moderators.

Funny that these questions were NOT asked, though, isn’t it?

I thought they got a preview of questions …

No, I don’t think so. Would ruin all the ultra-clever gotcha questions by Gibson, Russert et al, doncha know.

Hey, that’s what I said last thread.

Clinton has been taking more potshots at Obama than McCain. At this point she is doing more harm than good. A lot of us around here are progressives and neither Obama or Clinton is our first or second choice. But we were told to suck it up and support whoever the Democratic candidate would be. We did and most of us will support the Democratic candidate for the good of the country. Clinton can’t win unless Obama is found with a dead woman or a live boy in his bed. So it is really irksome to see her refusing to do what we have already done. We have shown they are willing to be realistic. Why can’t she?

At this point, I think anyone who worries about whether HRC or Obama will be more vulnerable in the general election, or who one the debate is being very naive.

The corporate media is willing to attempt to manipulate elections, and they will try. That is the big issue.
That is why we need a boycott, and an organized protest over what happened tonight.

The corporate media/GOP/cronny capitalist complex will attempt to subvert democracy to protect their dough and asses. That is the big frightening issue facing us. What to do about it the big question.

If Jesus Christ ran as a Democrat, he would get the very same treatment. HRC, Obama, it makes no difference.

As that old Soviet secret police saying goes
“If you give me the man, I will give you the case.” And that is exactly how it will go down with either HRC or Obama.

I do.

People trusted Bush and didn’t trust Gore or Kerry either.

No one is saying the American public has been masterful at picking their pols lately.

Indeed, I think, whomever the majority seems to want, go with the other guy (or gal)

Why don’t they just get rid of the moderators? These television “news” people are so full of themselves, their egos take up all the space.

I’d like to see Bill Moyers moderate one…

I’ve been under the impression that Jesus Christ IS running as the Democratic candidate!

She is already suffering on that front and the dishonesty front. The more she attacks on petty things instead of talking up her own initiatives, plans, etc. it isn’t going to improve for her going into the general (should she be the nominee)

She’ll be busy co-opting Bush’s platform and doing shots and going hunting.

I’ll vote for her if she gets the nomination but my fingers will be pinching my nostrils.

-G

Indeed, I think, whomever the majority seems to want, go with the other guy (or gal)

democracy anyone?

No Bin Laden questions. No questions about Condi’s Band of Torturers. No War profiteer questions. No corrupt Iraq government questions. No “Al Qaeda” stealing Iraq Oil from Exxon. Just Corporate narratives about capital gains for the investor class.

Yes! He’d be good.

He is an ass, you know

Hey, that’s what I said last thread.

Well, I’m convinced that the Olbermann people read here – take a bow…

Joe Sudbay over at AmericaBlog:

Wow. What the hell was that? Seriously, I’m a bit stunned. The level of discourse has reached a new low — a very new low. To be clear, I don’t think the debate was a disaster for Obama. He did fine. I think it was a disaster for our political system.

It was the worst debate ever. Gibson and Stephanopoulos were horrible. The questions were literally right out of right wing talk radio. . . .

More Obama talking point BS. Clinton is no George W. Bush. That’s a very Rovian tactic to try to say she is. She isn’t.

And if she is, then so is Obama since their voting records are almost identical.

KO does lurk here …

Maddow up on KO

Carville said the same thing (not in so many words) with the whole judas thing

If you want a real moderator, there’s only one choice: The Lurking Mod.

Accept no substitutes.

Nice ad-hominems on me. I didn’t personally attack you.

-G

Was the President sporting a lapel pin when he gave the go-ahead for war crimes?

Inquiring minds want to know!

God, even Pat Buchanan agrees that Hillary helped out the mods tonight.

Rachel says she’s pissed about the way the debate went, agreeing with viewers.

Btw, you didn’t recognize the whiskey shots and gun stuff as pandering???

Wow. I did.

If you can’t recognize pandering, you’re gonna get skeerewed!

Okay, racist old man Pat Buchanan is on my teevee, so I’ll turn it off –

Oh but there’s Rachel, who says she’s disappointed. Mocks the “big voice” constitution-reading, whatever that means.

Juno — I give you props, you’re one heckuva concern troll for Hillary.

Still won’t vote for her.

If Jesus Christ ran as a Democrat, he would get the very same treatment. HRC, Obama, it makes no difference.

Well now that you mention it, there have been rumors about that Magdalene woman. And doesn’t the Apostles sound a little bit like a gang name? Finally, there are lots of questions about their funding. Money doesn’t just fall from heaven, you know.

Hannity has been trotting it out for at least a week, not with much detail, but a sort of anti-American/terror note. Ugly; all to paint Obama by association. Like why was Ob. linked with the Weathermen? no details. Just fear.

mets won tonight – i watched the game – not that gotcha game……

Is getting us to support Hillary really Juno’s point?

Juno, you can stop ridiculing me and attacking at any point.

-G

Didn’t mind the attacks on Bush…but there were more attacks on a Democrat than on her prospective opponent. She kept praising McCain…after all he’s a fighter, too! Right!

Seems there a hell of a lot of allegories out there about becoming what you hate. Maybe Hillary should read a few of them, sometime.

smart lady

doesn’t seem like it.

There are no ad hominems there. To make a false claim for which there is no basis in order to portray a candidate in a negative light for political purpsose, which you do in that post by snarking about the whiskey shot and claiming she’d be like Bush, IS a Rovian tactic.

I’m commenting on the tactic, not you personally.

Pat Buchanan another OLD FUKKIN RIGHT WING HACK

Is getting us to support Hillary really Juno’s point?

Is it part of the grieving process? Because it really seems like denial to me. Which stage is that?

Hackles down folks, no name calling or personal attacks. We’re all on the same team.

YUSSSSSSS

It’s past time for us to begin to remind the broadcasting media’s Corporate Masters at Disney and GE and the like that a different kind of FCC can and will demand fairness in broadcasting. The license to broadcast can, after all, be revoked.

Fairness should be the keynote.

Fairness–and the ability to revoke the licenses of those who are not fair to all sides.

No one but a fool would think that what we saw tonight was fair or principled. It was what it was. And what it was was contemptible.

Juno,

You’ve won me over with your decency and effective arguments for Sen. Clinton.

Drinks are on me.

-G

Editor & Publisher puts it well:

By Greg Mitchell

Published: April 16, 2008 10:15 PM ET

NEW YORK In perhaps the most embarrassing performance by the media in a major presidential debate this year, ABC News hosts Charles Gibson and George Stephanopolous focused mainly on trivial issues as Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama faced off in Philadelphia.

Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the health care and mortgage crises, the overall state of the economy and dozens of other pressing issues had to wait for their few moments in the sun as Obama was pressed to explain his recent “bitter” gaffe and relationship with Rev. Wright (seemingly a dead issue) and not wearing a flag pin while Clinton had to answer again for her Bosnia trip exaggerations.

Then it was back to Obama to defend his slim association with a former ’60s radical — a question that came out of rightwing talk radio and Sean Hannity on TV, but delivered by former Bill Clinton aide Stephanopolous. This approach led to a claim that Clinton’s husband pardoned two other ’60s radicals. And so on.

not me. I’m a Giants fan.

I hope not. If so, it isn’t working.

Keith says the VP of the US talks trash about him…

Taylor Marsh must be down tonight.

I second that.

Silver Lining: Howie Kurtz will have no prob filling airtime this weekend on Unreliable Sources.

Oh please. This is another fallacious Obama talking point, that Hillary is praising McCain more than she is Obama.

When she DOES praise Obama, you folks call her a liar and call it phony. I’ve heard her praise Obama a lot. Whether it’s genuine or not, I have no idea, but I have heard her do it.

If she merely makes a factual statement about McCain, like he’s got a lot of experience, you hear it as not only praise but her saying he’s better than Obama.

She is not doing that! She’s making the case that she will be better suited to compete against someone of McCain’s heft than will Obama. That is all. She IS running against Obama, btw.

And since it’s Obama’s supporters who’ve run a campaign of calling her a sociopath and pathological liar, among other horrible things, I think you’re hardly ones to complain about her attacking a fellow Democrat. Obama’s supporters need to reign in their hubris a bit. It smacks of the Bush “It’s okay when I do it, not okay when you do it” thing.

;)

So, it appears I am seeing this debate an hour later than you all are?

rachel at least calls bullshit when she sees and hears it

((texBetsy)) hehehe I needed that chuckle *g*

Greg Mitchell is my hero.

Nah. I’m not in denial at all. I’ve said all along (when I was at HuffPo) that Obama will win the nomination.

I just think Dems are making a big mistake, and I also think that, right now, She’d make a better president.

Okay?

More Obama hubris: a Clinton supporter must be in denial, ie: brain not functioning clearly or well or something.

Give me a break.

CT and other folks out west — for the love of all that’s holy, put down the remote, step away from the TV, and walk down to the beach!

Thanks for the advice. I plan to go see my sweetie tonight, as soon after work as I can whip out a column for our Church newsletter. I won’t worry about “missing” this spectacle.

Thanks,
Bob in HI

The license to broadcast can, after all, be revoked.

I love this place – so many optimists. License revoked by the Bush administration for crap such as was on display tonight at ABC, or at FauxNews daily?

A Presidential Medal of Honor is more likely….

Good for Mitchell. Editor and Publisher has cred and his critique will bite where a lot of ours will be dismissed because we are DFHs.

Hugh,

You know that Juno has our nation’s best interests at heart …

he just sees things a bit differently than some of the rest of us.

Isn’t that right, Juno?

It’d be a badge of honor to have Cheney talk trash about oneself.

I watched some clips, I dont’ see a flag pin on Gibson

Good one over on the great orange Satan:

I used to think Republican operative and Karl Rove mentor Lee Atwater had died in 1991, after a nasty career of Republican race baiting, culture wars, dirty tricks, and a illness-induced conversion to Catholicism and public repentance for his dirty and divisive politics. I was wrong. Lee Atwater apparently works for ABC News in devising bullshit questions to ask Democratic Presidential candidates.

Read the whole thing. It captures the essentials.

Hackles down folks, no name calling or personal attacks. We’re all on the same team.

Indeed. I thought McCain was the opponent this Fall, not Obama. I recall Obama showing his “weakness” by defending Sen. Clinton occaisionally making mistatements in a long campaign. He’s repeatedly said that he didn’t think that statements by her supporters were intended as racist. He’s never said that she would be any less of a candidate than he would in receiving Republican attacks. Still Senator Clinton persists with this “concern troll” stuff. He’s stuck with the issues. I guess that makes Sen. Clinton the “stronger candidate”?

Small quibble:

Obama’s supporters need to reign rein in their hubris

Last time I checked it wasn’t Obama/supporters running the royal entitlement campaign. Crown Royal and all….

Not if you’re smart. You can always turn on something else, read a good book, or do something productive.

No, I’m a she.

And I am well aware that Obama supporters think of Clinton supporters as some kind of mutants from an unkown place, freaks that simply cannot be figured out! I mean, how can one NOT support Obama?

The cult-like culture of the Obama side creeps me out. It reminds me, frankly, a lot of the whole Bush thing.

Actually the perception of her being dishonest has risen since last year. Her negatives are rising and part of that may be the tactics that her campaign is employeeing. I’m not aware of any campaigns labeling her as a pathelogical liar if I’m wrong, could you provide a link?

More Obama hubris: a Clinton supporter must be in denial, ie: brain not functioning clearly or well or something.

Clinton’s continuing campaign filled with attacks against Obama hurt the Democratic brand. You say you know that she can’t win. What rationale do you have for her staying in the race? Something positive would be nice.

Of course, nothing will happen to ABC. The point is to make a public fuss so that this does not happen again
OR if the corporate media keeps it up, they will be discredited with the public.

We need a big public fuss and debate. It is about countering the corporate media attempt to manipulate elections. That is the important thing.

Sorry Juno, my bad.

Will Bunch (aka Attytood) at Philly.com, with the final debate entry from his liveblog entitled “Gibson, Stephanapoulos outrage!“:

10:00 PM — OK, it’s finally over. Frankly, the questioning was so horrendous that it’s hard to determine what’s supposed to be important here — who “won” the debate. I thought they were both fairly flat and uninspiring; Obama is clearly the frontrunner and was playing defense, and in that sense it was fine for him. I would have like to seen him get more impassioned, turn the tables on his questioners — but that’s always a risk, and he was not in risk-taking mode. There were no “gaffes” by either candidate — Hillary was a little stronger on policy, as she often is, but I think a lot of Democratic voters cringed when she signed onto some of the tackier attack questions on Obama. The big loser, of course, was ABC, and perhaps the American people — but I think the American people are too smart for baloney. Stay tuned, because I’m hoping to do a more cohesive follow-up on the ABC debacle.

Why can’t we turn the debates over to the League of Women Voters like they did in the good old days? The commercial media obvously does not know how to manage a good debate.

Bob in HI

Pretty broad brush you’re wielding there.

You should see me try to write they’re, their, and there in real time too. Mixing up homophones is common when writing in real time.

Means nothing, and I don’t worry about it. I was a court reporter, and I type very fast but do not bother checking on a blog.

I also recognize homophone mixups when others type them, as well as recognizing typos versus actual misspellings.

Trivial.

Spare me. I’m tired of that garbage.

elitist

How many times did she attack the ostensible Republican nominee tonight? How many times did she attack Obama tonight by agreeing with the so-called “moderators” that Wright, Ayers, religion and guns, were the issues that the American people are REALLY going to be concerned with?

No choice. I do not know every Obama supporter individually.

Is it different than “Clintonistas”?

Need a public debate.

Um…she’s running against Obama right now?

Pat Buchanan talking about the President requiring an authorization from Congress to go to war. That is so pre-9/11.

Not if you’re smart. You can always turn on something else, read a good book, or do something productive.

Yes, I was put in a really foul mood today reading and writing on the SCOTUS lethal injection decision. It was like the Yoo memo, only better written.

I don’t think you all are mutants at all just like I’m sure not all of you think that obama supporters are part of a cult.

What creeps me out is someone taunting about using the “n” word in retaliation for someone else using the “b” word. Fungible ethics, anyone?

Or maybe projection, which really is Bushian.

The parties and the campaigns decided that the LWV was too . . . independent. Much better, in their opinion, to get real media folks running the show.

Be careful what you wish for, folks.

I used “campaign” as a verb. It has been a loud and relentless refrain from Obama supporters calling her a pathological liar, etc.

Repubs were very successful at painting Gore and Kerry as pathological liars too, and if they want to in the general, or the press wanted to now, Obama could be as well.

It is not a hard thing to do to find untruths people have said. Everyone has.

Spare me. I’m tired of that garbage.

Nothing like not having a reason to sustain a point of view.

But Clinton backers call themselves Clintonistas. I’m confused

Oh, I thought she was running for the Presidential nomination…on whom would be the best President? I’m sorry? I didn’t realize that it was a campaign to see who of the two could smear the other. That it was a debate on who was going to win the smear-crown?

You’re right, I agree, Clinton won that…now that you’ve explained it to me.

I didn’t say they are part of a cult. I said there is a cult-like mentality over there, and there is. And I’m not the first to notice it. It’s been commented on frequently.

No, she’s running right now for the Democratic nomination.

I support Obama, Juno, but that does not mean I don’t respect your viewpoint.

My concern is that the wounds of the despair, and the frustration many are feeling will result in severe damage to our necessary mutual respect, we are in this together, all of us, for the long haul, the very long haul.

As Hugh said above, most of us who hang out here were supporting others who dropped out—Dodd and Edwards mostly—but we will vote for whomever gets the nomination because we give a damn about who will appoint judges to the SCOTUS.

Personally I don’t like either of them much. Clinton is too DLC for me. Obama will disappoint and I fear that a whole generation of young people who see a messiah in him will be turned off to politics. It’s kind of a lose lose situation. EXCEPT either one of them will be better than McSame. So I have no need to trash either candidate or even tout either one. We’re not into poo flinging here.

What we ARE tired of though is the irrelevant BS that has captured the imagination and the spotlight in the campaign in general. We want to know what the candidates are going to do about restoring the COnstitution. We don’t give a damn about bitter oj.

I would really disagree. Even from the onset, Bush never got the kind of scrutiny that Obama has already gotten.

then let me see if I can explain it for you.

someone accused me of painting Obama supporters with a broad brush. I used the term “Clintonistas” to point out that people do in fact group people and paint them with broad brushes because when you do not know millions of people individually, and they are in fact a group with a common cause, there often is a culture created. I think the GOP is very singular minded and can fairly easily be painted with a broad brush too.

i have no problem with generalities. They’re necessary when you’re talking about large groups of people with a common interest.

But the hubris is in putting that on Clinton. It’s also wrong and specious. The Obama camp is every bit as divisive and negative as Clinton. She’s just more honest and up front about it.

I’m putting it on us!

Sure he did. And just like with Obama, any such issues were swept under the rug pretty quickly with polls showing “Bush not harmed by (Guard) story” or whatever.

Creeps me out, right… same line as last week, all Obama support is cult
behavior, no chance that it comes from experiencing the Clinton years
and expecting something from HRC resembling an issues campaign that never
came about because the inevitable did not come to her. Way too much
denigration of Obama support as childish, cult, or sexist for credible
comment. I am hearing this same line from Clintonistas, something must
be wrong for her to lose, no way the opponent could be better at it
than the so-called eleanor and franklin of the boomer cool kids. Ann
Richards admitted after losing badly to W that she got the big head and
got that big personality and it’s assumptions in full view of an electorate that she was overexposed in already… same with HRC, way past
the sell by date, 90’s nostalgia is not enough, try another line, update
your pitch.

And I am well aware that Obama supporters think of Clinton supporters as some kind of mutants from an unkown place, freaks that simply cannot be figured out! I mean, how can one NOT support Obama?

The cult-like culture of the Obama side creeps me out. It reminds me, frankly, a lot of the whole Bush thing.

I never thought that. I think that they are actually pretty human. They are nostalgic for Bill’s era, and the type of politics where he was willing to give up certain elements of the New Deal and Great Society in order to obtain Republican support for other things. It didn’t always work out that way (health care), but did for others (Welfare). But the economy was pretty good, we didn’t have any major wars, and there was the post-Cold War spending reductions that allowed things to flow along well. He was pretty conciliatory with foreign leaders. So many Clinton supporters are grounded in that…nostalgia for a better time. And they believe that Hillary can continue the dynasty.

If you float over to TaylorMarsh, though you’ll here precisely the accusations you’ve thrown at Obama supporters. That they are akin to “Jim Jones cultists”…Obamamaniacs, Obamabots, the sort of stuff that you’d expect Limbaugh to be hashing out.

In fact, a lot of the same stuff that the right-wing talk shows show right up on that site…so you have to wonder.

Are those the people that Hillary is trying to appeal to…and is Taylor Marsh just a means of using that sort of language to disrupt any sort of unity the party might be able to generate this fall.

I too supported others before Clinton, and to this day I wish Gore would get in.

I was fairly neutral about Obama, although he was always my least favorite for reasons I won’t bore you with here. I don’t feel a need to criticize Obama per se, but I DO feel a need to try to bring his supporters down to earth a little bit and realize that he’s as human, political, flawed, scheming, and imperfect as Clinton or anyone else. There is not ony no tolerance of criticism or challenge of Obama by his supporters, there is real rage and hatred for anyone who dare try it. There is a real need to believe this guy is some kind of saint, and that worries me. One of the effects of needing to believe that is an effort to try to paint his opponent in the worst possible light, thereby enhancing his saintly image. We had that with Bush, and it’s a politics I abhor.

I often defend Obama, praise him, etc., when see it is warranted, and yet I am still called “blind” and treated like “ewwwwwwwwwww, one of THEM, a Clintons supporter!” by Obama supporters, accused of having a “blind hatred for Obama” which is absurd, etc. Yet Obama supporters HAVE adopted the “never say anything kind about the opponent” Repub thing, so I think they have a lot of nerve accusing someone of having a “blind hatred” for Obama simipy by virtue of the fact that they support Clinton at the moment.

It wasn’t Repubilcans that ran me off of HuffPo with their vitriol and downright cruelty and rudeness. It was Obama supporters.

Having said that, it is FAR more civil here at FDL. FAR more. Plus, FDL focuses on actual serious issues. HuffPO is for Obama now what FOX is for the GOP. Ick.

Oh gracious no! I’ve said all along that she’s run a terrible campaign. I don’t think it’s so much that Obama has run a great campaign, per se, but mor e i his case that he has the “he can do no wrong” thing, and that helps a lot. Bush had it too.

I just think the one that sucks at politics is probably the better one for the job. The one who is better, is probably worse.

As for sexist, there were two posts within one post of each other by people here tonight referring to Clinton as a “bitch.” Think it would be so easily tolerated if a Clinton supporter hauled out the “N” word at Obama?

There has been a lot of sexism AND misogyny directed at Clinton. That is just a fact.

And again, I”m certainly not the only person to notice a cult-like mentality within the Obama camp.

Tell me, Juno, how have Obama supporters and others treated you here?

You will note that I did not blame HRC for the ill-will among ‘partisans’,
which is the fault of those who engage in such behavior.

What do you think?

Well, I expect to hear Rush Limbaugh call Hillary a pathological liar too, so trot on over to HuffPO and you’ll hear Obama supporters citing Limbaugh there as well.

It’s the denial of Obama supporters, who act so offended at attacks on Clinton but who seem genuinely unaware of the viciousness directed at Clinton and her supporters by Obama supporters, that is weird and part of that belief many have of the cult-like mentality. Lack of self-awareness is one of those traits.

comments are weirded out, it has you responding to a post, I never wrote

Hard refresh, everybody. All comments are restored.
Thanks.

I have said that FDL is FAR, FAR more civilized than is HuffPo.

hatred for Obama” which is absurd, etc. Yet Obama supporters HAVE adopted the “never say anything kind about the opponent” Repub thing, so I think they have a lot of nerve accusing someone of having a “blind hatred” for Obama simipy by virtue of the fact that they support Clinton at the mome

nt

I think that is such an exaggeration. Yes, like JFK, he has generated alot of excitement, the possibility of a new vision, new generation, etc. That does not = a cult. Many of the same folks also have reservations about his newness or inexperience. The hyperbole of lumping any one who may be on his side, with whatever degree of enthusiasm, is really less than accurate and “cult” is generally perjorative. Maybe there is a different word to describe what you see; cult doesn’t seem accurate at all.

Yeah, that’s it.

I mean it to be perjorative. I don’t think it’s a postitive quality within that campaign, and it worries me. I think it leads to big problems. It’s not the support of Obama that I think is cult-like. It’s the double standards and the fierce resistance that any challenge or criticism of him is met with as well as the seeming unspoken rule that Clinton must never, ever be spoken of postively and a lot of hubris.

Juno, Let me try, just one more time.

The ill-will we are all feeling is the result of our individual behavior, which, collectively, suggests that we are really not listening to each other and not hearing our own arrogance, ignorance and hubris.

We are taking ourselves far too seriously, and harming gravely the accord we must needs have.

This is what I am asking you to respond to.

Do you have any thoughts about what I have just said?

Thanks to all for watching it for me. While Gibson didn’t ask about torture, from comments it’s clear that he did illustrate the journalistic practice of it.
Hang in there. This is one of the few remaining spaces where Dems can still breathe the same air as other Dems.

I think it’s inevitable in a campaign. I also think to put it on ONE candidate is not right and very arrogant. I also think there is a lot of intellectual dishonesty right now and that does a lot of damage.

I think to say that “The party is being hurt by Clintonistas, so please, Clintonistas, give us the nomination and go away so the party isn’t hurt” is pretty arrogant and a cheap way to win a nomination.

Fact is, if the Democratic party can’t beat Republicans this year, even with a tight and drawn out primary, they don’t deserve to win ever again. Nothing is more disturbing than to see that polls indicate a tight General election. But to put that on Clinton is not right. As I said, neither Clinton nor Obama will get the 2025 delgates necessary. IF it’s the Obama camp that is so concerned about the health of the Democratic party, he can step down, which is HIS side’s resolution. She’s got enough votes and delegates to make it legit. But the Obama concern for the party seems to dwindle when this is suggested.

I’ve yammered to much and taken up too much space here tonight. I apologize.

Good night.

I was at some neighbors for dinner so missed the debate but watched some coverage on CNN- Fat Candy Crowley and friends were savaging both dem candidates. Does McBush OWN CNN?

Pathetic.

I don’t care which dem candidate wins- as long as I never have to hear from either of them ever again.

Can we insult her coverage and not her appearance?

You didn’t answer the question…Juno.

“How many times did she attack the ostensible Republican nominee tonight? How many times did she attack Obama tonight by agreeing with the so-called “moderators” that Wright, Ayers, religion and guns, were the issues that the American people are REALLY going to be concerned with?”

Some of us want to select the best nominee by what they will present against the Republican candidate…and what they feel are the important issues.