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	<title>Comments on: Yoo, Edley, and the Mortal Sins of Academia</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/yoo-edley-and-the-mortal-sins-of-academia/</link>
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		<title>By: truth</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/yoo-edley-and-the-mortal-sins-of-academia/#comment-1390876</link>
		<dc:creator>truth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 01:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;If I were a student at Boalt, I’d adopt the orange jumpsuit as my daily attire.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I were a student at Boalt, I’d adopt the orange jumpsuit as my daily attire.</p>
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		<title>By: MartianPolitics</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/yoo-edley-and-the-mortal-sins-of-academia/#comment-1390822</link>
		<dc:creator>MartianPolitics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Don’t worry too much about it. All we have to do is convince Prof. Yoo to go to a meeting overseas. Surely there is some international meeting coming up that could lure him out.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don’t worry too much about it. All we have to do is convince Prof. Yoo to go to a meeting overseas. Surely there is some international meeting coming up that could lure him out.</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/yoo-edley-and-the-mortal-sins-of-academia/#comment-1390806</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:30:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think Bybee’s seat on the appellate bench had been confirmed by the Senate, but he hadn’t formally left his post at OLC, so he was still its head when Yoo sent out his March 2003 memo under his own signature.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s one of the oddities about these Addingtonian fig leaves.  As deputy head of OLC, Yoo knew he lacked authority to issue that opinion, something well-versed government lawyers like Addington would have also known.  Bybee and Ashcroft could have delegated authority to him, but there’s no evidence they did so.  So, presumptively, they’re void, but weren’t treated that way.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ironically, that’s the kind of gap Rove often twists to his advantage in offering his Watergatish non-denial denials.  He often uses, “there’s no evidence I did such and such,” as a denial.  In fact, it’s nothing of the kind; it just means no one’s produced the evidence to support their claim yet.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s a convenient method for Rove for at least two reasons.  It encourages opponents to cough up with what they know, telling Rove what knowledge he has to defend against.  (Presumably, as the spider at the center of the web, he knows more.)  It also helps Karl avoid perjury, because he hasn’t denied a fact, he’s only pointed out a lapse in evidence for it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Bybee’s seat on the appellate bench had been confirmed by the Senate, but he hadn’t formally left his post at OLC, so he was still its head when Yoo sent out his March 2003 memo under his own signature.  </p>
<p>That’s one of the oddities about these Addingtonian fig leaves.  As deputy head of OLC, Yoo knew he lacked authority to issue that opinion, something well-versed government lawyers like Addington would have also known.  Bybee and Ashcroft could have delegated authority to him, but there’s no evidence they did so.  So, presumptively, they’re void, but weren’t treated that way.</p>
<p>Ironically, that’s the kind of gap Rove often twists to his advantage in offering his Watergatish non-denial denials.  He often uses, “there’s no evidence I did such and such,” as a denial.  In fact, it’s nothing of the kind; it just means no one’s produced the evidence to support their claim yet.  </p>
<p>That’s a convenient method for Rove for at least two reasons.  It encourages opponents to cough up with what they know, telling Rove what knowledge he has to defend against.  (Presumably, as the spider at the center of the web, he knows more.)  It also helps Karl avoid perjury, because he hasn’t denied a fact, he’s only pointed out a lapse in evidence for it.</p>
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		<title>By: anniesgirl</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/yoo-edley-and-the-mortal-sins-of-academia/#comment-1390800</link>
		<dc:creator>anniesgirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Great post, Peterr.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Peterr.</p>
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		<title>By: Fern</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/yoo-edley-and-the-mortal-sins-of-academia/#comment-1390787</link>
		<dc:creator>Fern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;does that mean that academic standards don’t apply either re: citations, etc.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>does that mean that academic standards don’t apply either re: citations, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/yoo-edley-and-the-mortal-sins-of-academia/#comment-1390778</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;didn’t marty say that bybee actually left (officially) some time after that?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;here’s &lt;a href=&quot;http://balkin.blogspot.com/2008/04/correction-and-mea-culpa.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;marty&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I am reliably informed that although the Senate confirmed Jay Bybee to be a federal judge on March 13, 2003, Jay did not take the oath of office until March 28th, at which point his resignation from OLC became effective. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;don’t know that this has any bearing on the issue, though.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>didn’t marty say that bybee actually left (officially) some time after that?</p>
<p>here’s <a href="http://balkin.blogspot.com/2008/04/correction-and-mea-culpa.html" rel="nofollow">marty</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>I am reliably informed that although the Senate confirmed Jay Bybee to be a federal judge on March 13, 2003, Jay did not take the oath of office until March 28th, at which point his resignation from OLC became effective. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>don’t know that this has any bearing on the issue, though.</p>
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		<title>By: ACitizen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/yoo-edley-and-the-mortal-sins-of-academia/#comment-1390777</link>
		<dc:creator>ACitizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/yoo-edley-and-the-mortal-sins-of-academia/#comment-1390777</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m deeply disappointed business interfered with my attending the public debate, with You on one side, Monday titled: &lt;a href=&quot;http://takeaction.wordpress.com/2008/04/12/boalt-hall-dean-refuses-to-fire-the-vile-yooyoo-will-emerge-from-rathole-to-speakplease-try-and-great-him-as-he-deserves/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;‘Would you rather be on closed circuit TV or in Jail?’ &lt;/a&gt;and no that is not snark. I’ll be there next time…if there is one.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ve been emailing the Dean since the last Dean about You and even though I am a life-time Alumni I’ve never received the courtesy of a response. I an my members, Drinking Liberally, Oakland will be discussing ways to move forward on applying real pressure on the Dean re: You. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;One thing I do not believe has been made clear to the University: There exist many individuals who’ve been harmed, deeply, by those acting in accordance with Yoo memos. I cannot conceive that liability will not attached to the University for Yoo’s part as actively breaking the Geneva Conventions and his role in promoting torture in defiance of international law.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I wonder what the situation might look like in five years with numerous claimants in Federal Court asking for the University and the State to make them whole?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just the possibility of this happening should be enough to make Dean Edley crap his Brooks Bros. briefs.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m deeply disappointed business interfered with my attending the public debate, with You on one side, Monday titled: <a href="http://takeaction.wordpress.com/2008/04/12/boalt-hall-dean-refuses-to-fire-the-vile-yooyoo-will-emerge-from-rathole-to-speakplease-try-and-great-him-as-he-deserves/" rel="nofollow">‘Would you rather be on closed circuit TV or in Jail?’ </a>and no that is not snark. I’ll be there next time…if there is one.</p>
<p>I’ve been emailing the Dean since the last Dean about You and even though I am a life-time Alumni I’ve never received the courtesy of a response. I an my members, Drinking Liberally, Oakland will be discussing ways to move forward on applying real pressure on the Dean re: You. </p>
<p>One thing I do not believe has been made clear to the University: There exist many individuals who’ve been harmed, deeply, by those acting in accordance with Yoo memos. I cannot conceive that liability will not attached to the University for Yoo’s part as actively breaking the Geneva Conventions and his role in promoting torture in defiance of international law.</p>
<p>I wonder what the situation might look like in five years with numerous claimants in Federal Court asking for the University and the State to make them whole?</p>
<p>Just the possibility of this happening should be enough to make Dean Edley crap his Brooks Bros. briefs.</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/yoo-edley-and-the-mortal-sins-of-academia/#comment-1390774</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/yoo-edley-and-the-mortal-sins-of-academia/#comment-1390774</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That’s right.  “Academic freedom” protects diversity of views from censorship by a domineering majority or administrator, intent on imposing its, or his or her views on an entire administration.  Noted examples of domineering chancellors from the early 1970’s were Chancellor Tolley at Syracuse and the new head of BU, who arrived at about the time Howard Zinn made tenure.  According to Zinn, he made tenure by the fortuitous timing of the tenure meeting, which made its decisions and sent them out hours before news of Zinn’s having participated in a student “sit in” about an important issue on campus.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Academic freedom does not protect shoddy or fraudulent work, the intellectual inverse of “scholarship”.  Yoo’s 2003 torture memo alone contains many examples of it.  (How would his still secret memos fare?)  He mis-cites cases for arguments they don’t support; he claims cases support his argument when they stand for the opposite; he mis-cites to suggest that cases support one part of his argument when, if at all, they support another.  He fails to mention conspicuous cases that his arguments have to refute, failing which they fail.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For a lawyer who earned the academic distinctions Yoo did at Harvard College and Yale Law, who already held a tenured position at a top nationally ranked law school, it is virtually impossible to find mitigating factors for that shoddy work.  The press of time doesn’t qualify, nor lack of resources.  For such work, the OLC would have had &lt;em&gt;carte blanche&lt;/em&gt; to borrow resources from elsewhere in the DOJ.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The highest hurdle this memo has to jump is that his missing cites and mis-citations are so artfully done.  Which suggests considerable time and attention went into constructing his memo.  All of which is damning, separate and apart from the evil done in reliance on them.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That’s right.  “Academic freedom” protects diversity of views from censorship by a domineering majority or administrator, intent on imposing its, or his or her views on an entire administration.  Noted examples of domineering chancellors from the early 1970’s were Chancellor Tolley at Syracuse and the new head of BU, who arrived at about the time Howard Zinn made tenure.  According to Zinn, he made tenure by the fortuitous timing of the tenure meeting, which made its decisions and sent them out hours before news of Zinn’s having participated in a student “sit in” about an important issue on campus.</p>
<p>Academic freedom does not protect shoddy or fraudulent work, the intellectual inverse of “scholarship”.  Yoo’s 2003 torture memo alone contains many examples of it.  (How would his still secret memos fare?)  He mis-cites cases for arguments they don’t support; he claims cases support his argument when they stand for the opposite; he mis-cites to suggest that cases support one part of his argument when, if at all, they support another.  He fails to mention conspicuous cases that his arguments have to refute, failing which they fail.</p>
<p>For a lawyer who earned the academic distinctions Yoo did at Harvard College and Yale Law, who already held a tenured position at a top nationally ranked law school, it is virtually impossible to find mitigating factors for that shoddy work.  The press of time doesn’t qualify, nor lack of resources.  For such work, the OLC would have had <em>carte blanche</em> to borrow resources from elsewhere in the DOJ.</p>
<p>The highest hurdle this memo has to jump is that his missing cites and mis-citations are so artfully done.  Which suggests considerable time and attention went into constructing his memo.  All of which is damning, separate and apart from the evil done in reliance on them.</p>
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		<title>By: Peterr</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/yoo-edley-and-the-mortal-sins-of-academia/#comment-1390771</link>
		<dc:creator>Peterr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;One minor correction: Gonzales was White House Counsel, not head of OLC in the Justice Department. EW’s got a &lt;a href=&quot;http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/timeline-collection/torture-tape-timeline/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;timeline of the whole Torture Tapes thing&lt;/a&gt; over at her place, that I think outlines who led OLC when this was going on.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One minor correction: Gonzales was White House Counsel, not head of OLC in the Justice Department. EW’s got a <a href="http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/timeline-collection/torture-tape-timeline/" rel="nofollow">timeline of the whole Torture Tapes thing</a> over at her place, that I think outlines who led OLC when this was going on.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/yoo-edley-and-the-mortal-sins-of-academia/#comment-1390769</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;At the time that Yoo wrote his memo, Ashcroft was AG, Gonzales was the President’s counsel, and Bybee who had headed the OLC left the day before Yoo released it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the time that Yoo wrote his memo, Ashcroft was AG, Gonzales was the President’s counsel, and Bybee who had headed the OLC left the day before Yoo released it.</p>
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