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	<title>Comments on: Tuesday Late Nite: FDL vs. Red State At Bloggingheads</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
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		<title>By: mui1</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391945</link>
		<dc:creator>mui1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391945</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is what I feared: Protests&gt; hardened nationalism and worse conditions for minorities, including Muslims.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/JD16Ad01.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;From Asian Times.&lt;/a&gt; Note the language and how the War on Terra meme is echoed by the Chinese government. Redstater can thank his fine preznit partly for that.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;On the contrary, Western protests, particularly over the Tibet issue, have only succeeded in angering the Chinese people, which has freed up the central government to take an even harder authoritarian line. Despite the protests, the leadership did not hesitate this month to jail human-rights activist Hu Jia for three years and half years. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Beijing also seems to be preparing for a crackdown in Xinjiang, an autonomous region in the remote northwest whose population is mostly Muslim. Last week, the Ministry of Public Security announced that police had broken up two terrorist cells in the region that were targeting the Olympic Games.&lt;/em&gt; While this may very well be true, ministry spokesman Wu Heping offered no evidence of the alleged plot, and it is certainly not beyond Chinese leaders to exaggerate the threat of terrorism to justify a crackdown on the restless Uyghur minority who live in the region. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;State media have also labeled the &lt;em&gt;Tibetan Youth Congress, which supports independence for Tibet, “a terrorist organization”&lt;/em&gt; and accused it - again, without evidence - of acts as horrific as cutting off the ears of its enemies and burning innocent people alive. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In addition, US house speaker Nancy Pelosi, one of China’s harshest critics in the West, has come under vitriolic attack. The Communist Party’s flagship newspaper, the People’s Daily, said Pelosi would be voted “the most disgusting figure” in any poll of the Chinese people. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No to be outdone, Xinhua added, undoubtedly with Pelosi’s support of the Dalai Lama (now on a two-week tour of the US) and the riotous Tibetan demonstrators in mind: “The Chinese people are fully justified to call her ‘a protector of mobsters, arsonists and murderers’.” &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is how China “caves in” to Western protests. The Olympic flame fiasco has only hardened China’s leaders in their conviction that there is a Western plot to humiliate the country in the leadup to the Olympics that is part of a broader conspiracy to prevent China’s rise on the world stage. And the Chinese people stand behind that conviction. Their rising tide of angry nationalism will last well beyond the Olympics. The dream that this summer’s Games would bring China and the West closer together has been shattered. As pressure builds on Western leaders to boycott the opening ceremony, resentment, distrust and misunderstanding are the rule. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is what I feared: Protests&gt; hardened nationalism and worse conditions for minorities, including Muslims.<br />
<a href="http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/JD16Ad01.html" rel="nofollow">From Asian Times.</a> Note the language and how the War on Terra meme is echoed by the Chinese government. Redstater can thank his fine preznit partly for that.</p>
<blockquote><p>On the contrary, Western protests, particularly over the Tibet issue, have only succeeded in angering the Chinese people, which has freed up the central government to take an even harder authoritarian line. Despite the protests, the leadership did not hesitate this month to jail human-rights activist Hu Jia for three years and half years. </p>
<p><em>Beijing also seems to be preparing for a crackdown in Xinjiang, an autonomous region in the remote northwest whose population is mostly Muslim. Last week, the Ministry of Public Security announced that police had broken up two terrorist cells in the region that were targeting the Olympic Games.</em> While this may very well be true, ministry spokesman Wu Heping offered no evidence of the alleged plot, and it is certainly not beyond Chinese leaders to exaggerate the threat of terrorism to justify a crackdown on the restless Uyghur minority who live in the region. </p>
<p>State media have also labeled the <em>Tibetan Youth Congress, which supports independence for Tibet, “a terrorist organization”</em> and accused it &#8211; again, without evidence &#8211; of acts as horrific as cutting off the ears of its enemies and burning innocent people alive. </p>
<p>In addition, US house speaker Nancy Pelosi, one of China’s harshest critics in the West, has come under vitriolic attack. The Communist Party’s flagship newspaper, the People’s Daily, said Pelosi would be voted “the most disgusting figure” in any poll of the Chinese people. </p>
<p>No to be outdone, Xinhua added, undoubtedly with Pelosi’s support of the Dalai Lama (now on a two-week tour of the US) and the riotous Tibetan demonstrators in mind: “The Chinese people are fully justified to call her ‘a protector of mobsters, arsonists and murderers’.” </p>
<p>This is how China “caves in” to Western protests. The Olympic flame fiasco has only hardened China’s leaders in their conviction that there is a Western plot to humiliate the country in the leadup to the Olympics that is part of a broader conspiracy to prevent China’s rise on the world stage. And the Chinese people stand behind that conviction. Their rising tide of angry nationalism will last well beyond the Olympics. The dream that this summer’s Games would bring China and the West closer together has been shattered. As pressure builds on Western leaders to boycott the opening ceremony, resentment, distrust and misunderstanding are the rule. </p>
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		<title>By: mui1</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391833</link>
		<dc:creator>mui1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391833</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;oK, I appreciate the dialoguing and all. But redstate guy is horrifyingly stupid. China tortures and imprisons those they call separatists. The US tortures and imprisons those they call terrorists. If Chimpy simpy doesn’t go to China, I am not sure it is going to help matters for Tibet. China might go into a frenzy over its insulted sovereignty. Negotiation on the *genuinely* on the side of human rights might be more effective. I remember someone Chinese saying to me that he/she was afraid that the “war on Terra” would give the Chinese a nod and a wink to crush minorities etc.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oK, I appreciate the dialoguing and all. But redstate guy is horrifyingly stupid. China tortures and imprisons those they call separatists. The US tortures and imprisons those they call terrorists. If Chimpy simpy doesn’t go to China, I am not sure it is going to help matters for Tibet. China might go into a frenzy over its insulted sovereignty. Negotiation on the *genuinely* on the side of human rights might be more effective. I remember someone Chinese saying to me that he/she was afraid that the “war on Terra” would give the Chinese a nod and a wink to crush minorities etc.</p>
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		<title>By: DennisQ</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391802</link>
		<dc:creator>DennisQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391802</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I got about four minutes into the discussion when Erickson said waterboarding is not torture.  That’s as much as I could stand in one sitting.  I’ll get back to it once the urge to vomit has passed.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got about four minutes into the discussion when Erickson said waterboarding is not torture.  That’s as much as I could stand in one sitting.  I’ll get back to it once the urge to vomit has passed.</p>
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		<title>By: Elliott</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391478</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391478</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;WOW!  This really is fabulous.  More discussions.  Jane you are a great interviewer.  I can see the real future of political discourse, and it’s meaningful!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;egregious is right, more please&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Jane you were fantastic. How refreshing to hear an actual conversation where people listen to each other, even agree sometimes, and get to the heart of the issue. More please.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WOW!  This really is fabulous.  More discussions.  Jane you are a great interviewer.  I can see the real future of political discourse, and it’s meaningful!</p>
<p>egregious is right, more please</p>
<blockquote><p>Jane you were fantastic. How refreshing to hear an actual conversation where people listen to each other, even agree sometimes, and get to the heart of the issue. More please.</p>
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		<title>By: KayInMaine</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391477</link>
		<dc:creator>KayInMaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391477</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Jane, you’re so beautiful inside and out. :-)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane, you’re so beautiful inside and out. :-)</p>
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		<title>By: newtonusr</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391249</link>
		<dc:creator>newtonusr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391249</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“Macoun” for sure!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Macoun” for sure!</p>
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		<title>By: Loo Hoo.</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391245</link>
		<dc:creator>Loo Hoo.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391245</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don’t think Granny Smith would work.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Here are some kinds.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.record-eagle.com/food/local_story_288094526.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Northern Spy&lt;/a&gt; might work.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t think Granny Smith would work.</p>
<p>Here are some kinds.  <a href="http://www.record-eagle.com/food/local_story_288094526.html" rel="nofollow">Northern Spy</a> might work.</p>
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		<title>By: nahant</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391243</link>
		<dc:creator>nahant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:02:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391243</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I had that coming :&gt;) but I just couldn’t resist&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had that coming :&gt;) but I just couldn’t resist</p>
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		<title>By: dmac</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391242</link>
		<dc:creator>dmac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391242</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;yeah, what i’m doing is being presumtuous in telling people how the hell to get along…….&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;somebody had to.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;now anything can work now that someone has spoken up.&lt;br /&gt;
now we all can gather in silent peace.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i’ll be in the lake.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;aren’t the stars nice?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; the water is nice, c’mon in.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;nite.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(i love you all, sorry for being a pain in the ass, i had to, here’s a towel, warm, i was sitting on it)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah, what i’m doing is being presumtuous in telling people how the hell to get along…….</p>
<p>somebody had to.</p>
<p>now anything can work now that someone has spoken up.<br />
now we all can gather in silent peace.</p>
<p>i’ll be in the lake.</p>
<p>aren’t the stars nice?</p>
<p> the water is nice, c’mon in.</p>
<p>nite.</p>
<p>(i love you all, sorry for being a pain in the ass, i had to, here’s a towel, warm, i was sitting on it)</p>
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		<title>By: newtonusr</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391241</link>
		<dc:creator>newtonusr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/15/tuesday-late-nite-fdl-vs-red-state-at-bloggingheads/#comment-1391241</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Bite thy tongue, nave!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bite thy tongue, nave!</p>
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