Don’t know about that, but I do know he loved to mix a mean martini. Great post, and a great tribute to one of the best, elite though he was!

Hilary is from Park Ridge ever been there?
“The racial makeup of the city was 95.4% White, “
” The median cost of a house is $420,000.”
“The median income for a household in the city was $80,000, and the median income for a family was $100,000. Males had a median income of $61,959 versus $39,794 for females. The per capita income for the city was $36,646. About 1.7% of families and 2.2% of the population were below the poverty line, including 2.1% of those under age 18 and 3.1% of those age 65 or over.

[edit]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_Ridge,_Illinois

John McCain a man who is a Navy Admirals kid and Grandkid is not an elite, does money make you an elite? Is it going to the right schools or is it being smart? Somehow the Navy’s officer school seems more like an oppertunity than a hardship to me.

John McCain (R-Ariz) - 2005
Politician Profile
image

*
Net Worth: From $18,931,130 to $33,683,004
Ranks 14th among all members
of the Senate
http://www.opensecrets.org/pfd.....;year=2005

Mind you I don’t think this report includes his wife’s money. We need to press for that information.

Thanks Attaturk.

FWIW, here’s a passage about FDR from a post two-years ago from Sara over at tnh (bold is mine):

More George C. Marshall

[…] Anyhow, FDR personally wrote to the ones he identified, and invited them to apply to be a special commissioned officer, and if they said yes then the Army did the rest. He also wrote to former New Deal administrators to ask for recommendations. (Comparison — Do you think GWB spent any time writing personal notes to recruits to be occupation officers in say public health or civil engineering in Iraq?) For an even better comparison one needs to read through FDR’s correspondance on how to occupy Italy. He was determined not do do it in collaboration with the Catholic Church, and not through people linked with the Mafia — and he knew J. Edgar Hoover did not know or care about the Mafia — so he decided the best way to do the job was by re-educating the Italian Red Cross away from its facist ways and making it a partnership with the American Red Cross. To do this, he worked with LaGuardia to identify Italian Americans associated with the Red Cross — and not overly influenced by the Church — to do the job. The correspondance is all at Hyde Park, and it is fun to read. The Italian Occupation was not at all like the German — but it is worth consideration. What I think is important is that FDR was deeply involved with selection and working essentially in support of Marshall’s architecture. […]

I agree that FDR was one of a handful of great Presidents, but imho, it’s a reach to put him on the same plain with GW and AL.

But if “elitism” is bad, along with all the other things that Chris Matthews and his ilk think frame as being bad, such as calling Democrats being effete

Tweety calling anyone “effete ” is funny someday after Tweety goes off again about how “Manly Bush is” or how Fred Thompson is an Aqua Velva man somebody new to the show will ask him
1)if he is Gay
2)when is Chris going to just admit to the American people that he is gay and rent go rent a Condo with Andrew Sullivan
3) ask him honestly if the TV networks had any trouble hiring such an openly Gay man as himself for a news show.
Denial and Projection of his values and fears onto other people is his problem he keeps pointing fingers at people and accusing them of being “effete” because he fears that someone will accuse him of being “effete”.

Look it’s bizarre that the two candidates whose net worth is far and away elite are calling the guy worth about 2% of their estates the “elitist”.

I can understand McCain calling Barack an elitist that lie is a regular GOP smear since Reagan’s time but Hilary? She is killing her chances to be Vice President.
When are we going to stop letting the MSM create stories? We need to push the idea that Bush is the worse President since Hoover and that McCain is the second coming of Bush.

The perception of elitism is what keeps democrats from getting elected so Hillary, once again, is doing her best to make that happen.

WASHINGTON - Georgia Democrats quietly have assembled a group of five military veterans - including three fresh out of Iraq - to challenge Republican congressmen from around the state in November’s elections.

The candidates are criticizing the incumbents on domestic issues such as the sluggish economy, but they also say they have the moral authority to challenge their opponents for giving President Bush lockstep support on the five-year war in Iraq.

“When you add all of the guys up together, we’ve probably got close to 75 years of combined military service,” said Bill Jones, a former Air Force officer from Marietta who is planning to launch a campaign this week against Rep. Tom Price of Roswell. “I’m excited about the idea of veterans stepping up and representing the Democratic Party.”

Jones and the other challengers face long odds. They are political newcomers with little name recognition, running in conservative districts that routinely elect Republicans by wide margins.

In all but one case, they face established incumbents with well-stocked campaign treasuries. But they say they sense voters are looking for something different. And some believe Barack Obama, if he’s the Democratic presidential nominee, could add to that dynamic.

Along with Jones, 53, an Air Force Academy graduate and former commercial airline pilot who now is an executive at a technology firm, the candidates are:

Doug Heckman, 48, of Norcross, a West Point graduate and former Army colonel who served as a senior adviser to the Iraqi military in east Baghdad in 2006 and 2007. Heckman is trying to unseat eight-term Rep. John Linder of Duluth.

Bill Gillespie, 44, of Tybee Island, a retired Army lieutenant colonel who was a senior logistician during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Gillespie is challenging eight-term Rep. Jack Kingston of Savannah.

Bobby Saxon, 46, of Nicholson, an Army veteran and Georgia National Guard major who served with the 3rd Infantry Division in Iraq in 2005. Saxon, who runs a software consulting firm, is challenging freshman Rep. Paul Broun of Athens.

Bud Gammon, 57, of Rome, an Air Force Academy graduate and pilot during the tail end of the Vietnam War. Gammon, a commercial airline pilot, is running against three-term Rep. Phil Gingrey of Marietta.

Sen Obama is presumably called elitist in hopes of separating him from the constituency he’s inspiring. It IS hilarious in light of his opponents’ backgrounds.

Scraping the bottom of the safe talking-point barrel may prove a double-edged sword. Fat chance the black community will buy it and this alleged elitism might make him more acceptable to segments of the population thought to be unwilling to vote for a black.

They’re desperate — throwing everything at the wall hoping something sticks.

Yep she is doing a better job of attacking Obama than John McCain is doing.
However if Obama is smart he can use those attacks as a reason why he will not choose Hilary as Vice President.
I don’t think the rabid Hilary people could reasonably blame Obama.
Ahhh! reasonably blame what was I thinking?

This is our year outside of a military coup I can’t think of a better year for the Democrats to get elected even in Georgia. Heck the young people supporting Obama are well just so non racist compared to my generation and they seem very eager to vote.
How this election compares to the election after Nixon resigned should be interesting.

Oh man! Will be a great pleasure to watch someone whacking away at Kingston.
Hoping Lt Col Gillespie has a way with words.

From LateLateNight but I think it fits here.

Time just did a piece on Obama’s mom I think its a game changer and I think Obama needs to start talking about her more now. A single white woman twice divorced who raised two kids on her own while going to college and getting a PH.D.
She did not do it alone her parents helped her and watched Barack, she worked long hours in a jungle.
With a little less than half of all marriages ending in divorce and everyone I know who’s divorced complaining about child support this story will resonate with Americans we all know women in this position.
Well the fact that Barack did get where he is today says allot about his Mom and every Mom who works her but off, tries to go to school, gets stiffed on the child support and has to ask for help from her parents.
In other words look at Barack he is proof that the sacrifice is worth it that anybody’s kid can be President.
Now all Barack has to do is talk about his Mom in public and I think he can get many of the Hilary voters. In fact he should talk about both his parents and all his grandparents whenever he can Hallmark lives for stories like this!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..96003.html
reply

I think I block primary seasons out shortly after they happen because I am always surprised by just how silly the “silly season” gets. When Matthews was talking about the orange juice, I thought it had to be a joke. Then I remembered–the joke has always been on us.

I think Obama’s response yesterday to Clinton’s and McCain’s elitism charges was wonderful, and I think Clinton over-played her hand here. While I don’t think she–being a Democrat–should have waded into this particular argument, I do understand she sees few options left at this point. However, saying Gore lost because he was seen as elitist is actually a HUGE dog whistle to those of us–like me–who are still bitter (yep, I said it) that Gore in fact won, something Obama also picked up on and respond to yesterday. For Clinton to then add on the duck hunting story and whiskey shot just smacks of desperation. She had a hand but I really think–okay, hope–she overplayed it.

He can’t be much worse than this moron Kingston.

Isn’t it Kingston who objected to having to work more than a two day week? If so, there is a dandy quote out there.

That would be him.

Jack He was all over the Obama flap pin deal.

LAst night in a forum in PA about religion both clinton2 and obama1 were having no difficulty promoting that they are both elitist. “We are so utterly super dooper perfectly religious that we are better than you” Give me a bloody break. Just what I do not want in a pres. is someone that believes some pie in the sky apparition is going to be part of their decision making process. Holy mackerel haven’t we had enough of fairy land decision making in the WH? When the heck are we going to get a pres. that looks at facts at reality and not some archaic belief in voodoo. When are we going to get an atheist pres?

“The gist of the article is best summed up by the chart below where Janszen plotted the (actual and predicted) trajectories of the bubbles of past, present and future, namely the tech bubble, the housing bubble and the coming bubble in alternative energy and infrastructure.”

http://seekingalpha.com/articl.....ext-bubble

Coming bubble in alternative energy and infrastructure? Those are OUR ISSUES is WallStreet already voting with their wallets on an Obama victory?
Obama does talk allot about Alt energy and fixing the infrastructure.
Does McCain talk about any dreams/hopes/plans for America?
He does have something besides cutting taxes right? I mean G.W at least had a few lies about being a humble nation and being bipartisan a “uniter not a divider” doesn’t McCain at least have some Lies?

right

You might get Ralph Nader to campaign on that, but I doubt it. You might try a little door-to-door persuasion to get an idea whether that might be a popular position any time in the near future. Meanwhile, I wouldn’t care to damage chances of correcting some more immediate problems.

Obama’s response was exceptional. I have been thinking that this drawn out primary season is hurting him and thereby Dems in general, but after watching this clip, I might be moving into the camp that says this is helping Obama’s campaign in long run (as long as it doesn’t go to the Convention). He is getting better and better on the stump and in interviews.

Around 4:30 is hysterical, where he does the Annie Oakley bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIxmi3e2Vmo

When are we going to drop the narrative that this is a religious, christian country?

What does religion have to do with affairs of the state, of the military, of the economy?

Who cares?

This stuff is all bullshit, no one is going to change their mind in either direction.

This stuff is all bullshit, no one is going to change their mind in either direction.

Aint that the truth! But with clinton2 spouting that “my gun is bigger than your gun” crap this is really gone beyond.

This is my weapon
This is my gun
Lookit Hillary
You don’t have one

She’s not a girl who misses much
Do do do do do do- oh yeah!
She’s well acquainted with the touch of the velvet hand
Like a lizard on a window pane

I learn to appreciate Obama more from day to day

Bear (BSC) had about $13 trillion of derivatives deals with counterparties, according to its most recent financial filings. If Bear had croaked, large parts of the world could have croaked. And the economic damage could have been catastrophic.

Why is that? The secret has been uncovered by Martin Mayer on this week’s Barron’s in the article “The Fed Has Power, but No Will”.

In the OTC (over-the-counter) derivatives market, people who want to get out of their previous trades have to offset the obligations of that trade by creating a new instrument with a new counterparty. Take a credit-default swap, by which each party guarantees to accept the payout on a debt instrument held by the other party. It’s an insurance instrument, with some differences: The holder of the insured instrument can sell it, and the new owner becomes the beneficiary of the insurance. And the insurer may find someone who will accept a lower premium to take the burden of the insurance, allowing him to lay off his risk at an immediate profit.

The one trade thus generates two new instruments, with four new counterparties, and as the daisy chain of reinsurance expands, the numbers become ridiculous: $41 trillion face value of credit-default swaps.

http://seekingalpha.com/articl.....=headline1

BearStearns had about $13 trillion of derivatives?

U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK

The Outstanding Public Debt as of 14 Apr 2008 at 10:30:52 AM GMT is:
$ 9 , 4 4 8 , 6 0 2 , 1 6 2 , 2 6 5 . 0 2

The estimated population of the United States is 303,806,201
so each citizen’s share of this debt is $31,100.75.

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$1.67 billion per day since September 29, 2006!

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

Bear Stearns had more money in derivatives deals than the U.S National Debt? Thats like owing Loan Sharks more money than the U.S National Debt wars get fought over less who makes deals with people you know do not have that kind of money?

Barack’s mom supposedly was a proud atheist, and I’ve heard him specifically reference atheists and agnostics when he talks about religious freedom, and how we need to keep religion out of public institutions. As someone who also gets a little unnerved by politicians talking about religion too much, I haven’t been creeped out by Obama’s talk so far (didn’t see this weekend’s CNN dog and pony show though…)

The least “religious” candidate on a personal level is probably McC*nt.

Good morning, pups. It’s [gag] Kristol, Cohen and Krugman in the NYT today. That poisonous creature Kristol has spit out a thing called “The Mask Slips,” and he opines that it’s one thing for Karl Marx to assert that “religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature” and another for Barack Obama to claim that we “cling to … religion” out of economic frustration. There are Hazmat suits over there… I’d suggest you use one. Mr. Cohen writes about “Obama’s Indonesian Lessons,” and says a central challenge of the next president will be reinventing America’s relations with the Islamic world. Lastly, Mr. Krugman writes about a “Crisis of Confidence,” and says that most Americans are doing considerably worse than the usual economic measures let on. Probably the article in the NYT about the huge increases in drug co-pays isn’t going to help…

http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/

The coffee, tea and hot chocolate are ready, and the biscuits are out of the oven. I’ve got to go and try to gear up for Monday. Have a good day.

Morning Marion.

Do you know anything about Lt Col Gillespie, Kingston’s new opposition?

In the OTC (over-the-counter) derivatives market, people who want to get out of their previous trades have to offset the obligations of that trade by creating a new instrument with a new counterparty.

This sounds very much like “carbon offsets”. The corps can keep polluting al they want as long as they can “offset” the mess by buying “markers” from clean corps. Doesn’t make any difference to the planet however as polllution is pollution no matter what cloak you may want to put on it. Debt is still debt.

I haven’t been creeped out by Obama’s talk so far (didn’t see this weekend’s CNN dog and pony show though…)

They both did the “holier than thou” thing. Sickening.

Our bleakness partly reflects the fact that most Americans are doing considerably worse than the usual economic measures let on. The official unemployment rate may be relatively low — but the percentage of prime-working-age Americans without jobs, which isn’t the same thing, is historically high. Gross domestic product is up, but the inflation-adjusted income of the median family is probably lower than it was in 2000.

http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/

Real numbers on the percentage of prime-working-age Americans without jobs or who are underemployed would be useful. For unemployment numbers, inflation numbers (who believes that higher food and gas prices shouldn’t be included in figuring out the inflation rate?) or the real value of what the banks and hedge funds have on their books would all be useful to help us get an idea who is in how much trouble and needs our help?
Right now we are flying blind but Bush wants to just throw money at the problem without knowing how big the problem is?
If we don’t get real numbers if we don’t regulate the financial system better we won’t have one.

Are people really buying carbon offsets with money? I agree carbon offsets are a joke. But having more debt than you can pay could is a joke on us.

Not yet. I’m going to have to scrounge around and find someone who knows him. Of course, there’s nothing in the Savannah Daily Disappointment…

Both “carbon offsets” and “debt instruments” are jokes on us. Both “systems” are designed by the corporate empire to make money and to cover up that we the people are going to pay no matter what.

When the Federal Reserve accepts mortgage paper from the banks at face value and exchanges them for T bills will the difference between the real value of the mortgage paper and the face value of the mortgage paper be added to the National Debt under Bush’s watch?

Here is Gillespie

National Debt under Bush’s watch?

Sure, after all what difference does another trillion or so matter

Its arguing over nothing. It’s all “of course, of course, of course, who cares?” I mean, you are right in one sense, the strictest one. But really, its daily pushback gruel to seize control of the narrative and has very little if anything at all to do with running the country.

Oh, ya, speaking of which, since the daily grind is a bunch of BS, when all else is stripped away one candidate stands well above the others as being, you know, actually ready to be Preznit. That would be Hillary. We elect Obama or McCain at our peril. Its pretty clearly so. Sorry. Can’t say no one told ya.

Shit

Thanks! I don’t do MySpace… I’ll see if he’s on Facebook later. I hope he can manage to get some traction here. Kingston is an idiot, but he’s a Gooper idiot and that weighs heavily down here.

No, no not the black peril…… eek!

Where do they dig these people up?

I do really wish she would shut up on this. I think I heard coverage about 6 times yesterday; who needs McMouth? She is doing a serious offense. Let alone $100….good distraction, I guess. Her attacks sound like a Repub script: get a word and ride it to death. Hannity keeps doing the same thing about Obama friends as if our friends are carbon copies. Great post.

Where do they dig these people up?

Under some big rock in texas no doubt.

yeah, so BHO is smarter than most of the rest of us (myself included)
How is that such a fucking bad thing
Want a C student?
You got one.
As for Hil, she shed the elite status with marriage.
And that worked great on a personal level, eh?

Her attacks sound like a Repub script:

I believe that the clintonians work on the principle that is they cannot get re-elected then they do not give a sweet damn if it is a gooper that wins.

Elitist == uppity
Don’cha know

Sure, after all what difference does another trillion or so matter

Its a lot more than another trillion Bear (BSC) had about $13 trillion of derivatives deals with counterparties, according to its most recent financial filings. Morgan Stanly and the Fed took over that debt and I bet the Fed not Morgan is guaranteeing all of it. But how much is that debt really worth? What is the likelyhood that someone will collect?
Plus all the banks have been exchanging debt they can’t sell for T bills again we have no real numbers.

Thanks. I’m looking forward to learning more.

Very sad, if true. I heard yesterday the next gig for Hill may be Gov of NY. I think no one will think well of her if she helps to tank the Dems. The way Clintons dissed Gore has certainly not been forgotten. Yeah, that fits your premise, doesn’t it? Thanks

My wonderful wife just told me that clinton2 said that life begins at conception. Did anyone else hear that last night?

Or, the chance to run again in 2012, following McCain’s one term. I wouldn’t have believed it at the beginning of this campaign, but now self-interest seems the only explanation.

I read that she said the “possibility” of life begins at conception.

Elitist == uppity
Don’cha know

I am not liking those clintons one bit

Or maybe the Clinton’s Corporate Campaign fat cats are demanding that she clear the way for McCain by saying all this nasty stuff now. So that McCains people can say when they get called on it that Hilary opened the door first.

I read that she said the “possibility” of life begins at conception.

One wonders if she is pandering to the anti-choice religious NFs

Are the Clinton’s trying to take their prochoice base for granted? This could lose Hilary a ton of support?

Are the Clinton’s trying to take their prochoice base for granted?

They were, from the beginning, going under the assumption that clinton2 would be anointed as nominee but that didn’t work out so well. So now they are scrambling to find a constituency, maybe the gun totin’ anti-choice, aipac, anti-Iran, pro-war, liarman constituency is for her.

Just to be picky, this was the 63rd anniversary of Roosevelt’s death, not the 58th.

It appears she’ll say whatever she thinks she can get away with to attract as many poorly informed voters as possible. I wondered if her campaign has her driving a pickup with a gun rack.

maybe the gun totin’ anti-choice, aipac, anti-Iran, pro-war, liarman constituency is for her.

But I thought she fired Mark Penn

Carville on Today; maybe he can explain.

OT,

John Kanzius was on 60 minutes last night! A man dying of cancer has invented a cure for cancer using nano tech and radio frequency waves! This same invention liberates hydrogen from salt water using considerably less energy than electrolysis and can in fact be used to produce hydrogen on demand from salt water for a multitude of practical applications hence reducing per capita energy cost in America and the world. Being that FDR was the father of the new deal I can think of a few new deal type programs that could achieve a goal, a reduction in per capita energy costs and its positive effect on the economy vs the current ” gamed”situation! Our collective life liberty and happiness in the hands of energy speculators while “corpo-government” and the Iraq oil plot continue to bleed America dry?

I don’t think “elitist” and income have anything to do with each other. Elitism is an attitude. A poor person can come off as elitist and a wealthy person can come off as humble.

Obama’s problem here is that he told the truth, aka Howard Dean. Americans like the truth so long as it’s friendly and comports with waht they want to believe, but any ugly truths are rejected and met with anger and lashing out and, of course, the disingenuous interpretation of what the person’s meaning was. This is the case with the what Obama said.

Of course, after months of sarcastically accusing Clinton of “playing the victim” and accusing her supporters of being “bitter”, among other nasty things, it is now the Obama side that is crying foul (rightly so) and “playing the victim.” No doubt it’s different when Obama comes under disingenuous fire than when Clinton does. She deserves it, he does not. Something like that.

Noticeable in this piece about Roosevelt is that the author’s description of Roosevelt could be both Clintons, no? And yet those traits - infidelity, exaggeration, etc., are now declared by Obama supporters as evidence of unfitness for office, even evidence of some psychological disorder, according to many Obama supporters.

I’d say FDR, despite his very human flaws, was quite fit for office.

Does the author ask if FDR made deals with slum lords to buy homes for his family?

Nope.

I read that she said the “possibility” of life begins at conception.

NPR reported that, too. Barack’s response was along the lines of “haven’t figured it out yet.”

I’m with those who want religion OUT of politics and government. I don’t want to hear how anyone’s faith in fairy tales will help them govern. Blergh. Keep your beliefs to yourself.

you seem to miss the distinction between “elite” and “elitism”. One can be a member of the “elite” without being an “elitist”.

IMHO, the problem with Obama’s statement wasn’t so much what he said, but who he was saying it to. His efforts to explain the motivation of working class whites to a roomful of rich (almost entirely) white people smacked of condescension if not contempt for the working-class white people he was describing.

Think of it this way — how do you think rich white people would react if Obama had tried to explain “rich white people” to an audience of working class white people using the phrase “that’s why they cling to their double-mochachino lattes, self-help gurus, and fat-cat tax cuts.”

Obama went out of his way to tell a roomful of rich white people “I’m one of you, and I define working class white people the way that you do.” That is the sound of elitism — and even if he was simply pandering to his audience like all politicians do and actually has enormous respect for working class white people, it doesn’t change the fact that the message he sent to his audience was pure elitism.

As I understand what you said yesterday, your endorsement of Hillary Clinton is based on your belief that she is a better politician, more capable of doing whatever is necessary, regardless of truth or ethics, in order to defeat the Republicans. Your comment in this instance seems to further represent that point of view. Is that correct?

“Obama went out of his way to tell a roomful of rich white people “I’m one of you,….”

I think you have inferred from or read alot into the remarks that we have heard. He made an observation. To include your own opinions into that without even being there is a serious stretch.

You make a very good point in noting to whom Obama was addressing his comments, and I think you are very correct.

I think there are a lot of factors at play here, but we have a tendency in this culture now to try to simplify things and make things black-and-white, easily summed up in a soundbite.

Obama does have a problem, regardless of whether he’s correct in his sentiment or not, with sounding snooty. The only two times I’ve literally cringed during this primary were when I heard about Clinton’s sniper story (”Why do they - meaning politicians - DO that???) and when I heard that Obama called a woman “Sweetie.” Groan.

Just as what Clinton was trying to get across with her healthcare story got lost in all the gnashing of teeth of trying to make her into a pathological liar, Obama’s truth here will get lost in trying to make this about him being “elitist”.

Nothing has changed.

As I understand what you said yesterday, your endorsement of Hillary Clinton is based on your belief that she is a better politician, more capable of doing whatever is necessary, regardless of truth or ethics, in order to defeat the Republicans anyone in her way

I took the liberty of editing… sorry

Bitter does not begin to describe the feeling…………

Instead of spending trillions $$ on energy and trillions$$ on war to secure oil, America can liberate itself from the interests which at present holds US hostage! John Kanzius while finding a cure for cancer has killed two birds with one stone America!!! Wars and death have driven technological innovation. Without energy there is nothing and yet we are willing to sacrifice it all to perpetuate a dysfunctional system so corporations can control the form of stored potential energy which provide a most basic form of liberty for Americans. The use of technology to overcome the limitations of time and space. “Transportation” and “Dissemination” of information. The use of radio frequency waves to liberate hydrogen from salt water using energy harvested from Photo electric solar collections is a viable plan Americans should demand. John Kanzius and American has in the desire to find a cure for cancer, accidentally stumbled upon America’s liberation.. Electricity derived from the two most abundant elements on earth……. sunlight and ocean water!!! William of Ockham’s Razor

So much for supply side economics and the scarcity of energy!

No, my support for her to be president is based on the belief that I think she is more capable of the job right now than is Sen. Obama.

I distinguish between the job of president and the job of candidate. I think they are worlds apart now, unfortunately. Bush and Republicans proved to be far more adept at politics and running campaigns than Gore and Kerry, but I firmly believe both Gore and Kerry would have been far better presidents. Of course, I believe my dog would have been a better president. The doorknob on my front door would have, for that matter.

No, my support for her to be president is based on the belief that I think she is more capable of the job right now than is Sen. Obama.

She may well be more capable at 3:AM but I worry about the other 23 hours in the day.

Alright, I can’t disagree with that. If it appeared to you that Hillary Clinton’s persistence in the primary and “criticisms” of Obama were going to cause a rupture within the Democratic Party, which was likely to result in the election of McCain, would you continue in your support of Hillary Clinton? Or, would you believe that McCain would be better president than Obama?

Responding to the hyperbolic “truth or ethics” part of your post:

1) I don’t think Obama is any more honest or less honest than Clinton. Indeed, it’s very obvious when she’s pandering, so I know it when I see it. Obama’s pandering, which one must do if you’re going to be president of this country, is harder to see for various reasons I will not enumerate here. The point is, it’s erroneious to paint her as all lies and lack of ethics and him as saint (read the post, btw, about FDR’s “truth and ethics”).

2) I think she has a better understanding of the American electorate, and unfortunately that is not a positive thing. As a friend of mine wrote in response to Obama’s “bitter” comments, “At least Hill knows she has to pander and knows she has to call Americans smart when she knows they’re stupid. Hasn’t Obama figured that out yet?” He’s right.

You want to lose to McCain on some nonexistent but feel-good sense of moral superiority or do you want to win?

I want to win and get Repubs the hell out of power.

Some elitist are the energy purveyors, whose pockets we line everyday to have liberty!! These people are the corpo-aristocrats Jefferson feared most……

Speaking of Kings, Dukes, corporate cohorts in colonial crime in Jefferson’s time, we’ve come full circle, meanwhile denial is fine………

The politicians “asselephants” just mirror the competing interests of corporations. “Individual Americans” can only compete at the at the ballot box with corporations. Americans should no longer take back seat to corporate interests in America who view US as a means to profit first and foremost. We should demand that the more “conservative corpo-aristocrats” who value “life” apply the same standard to every living citizen in America when dealing with the lifeless legal concept of a “corporation!”

Bush/Cheney would meet FDR’s definition of fascist for sure… and Thomas Jefferson would probably be loading his long gun……….

I want to win and get Repubs the hell out of power.

In that case you may as well support obama1 as clinton2 is gooperlite

I don’t understand why this onus is on Clinton.

It seems to be the Obama side that believes this to be the case, and if that is so, he can certainly drop out to save the party. Neither will reach the winning number of delegates, yet Obama’s supporters have this hubris about them which includes accusing Clinton of destroying the Democratic party because she will not step aside and hand Obama the nomination.

I’m going to file that in my “The Iraq War Is All Hillary’s Fault” file.

No, she’s not.

More hyperbole.

Ironic.

Or, if she is than Obama is as well since they’re voting records are almost identical.

Well, I believe you just verified my first interpretation of your viewpoint. Is there any candidate, or anyone for that matter, who you think actually believes what they say? I can see why you think my reference to “truth or ethics” was hyperbolic. Apparently such things are irrelevant to anything and use of the words would be hyperbolic in any context.

I want to defeat Republicans also, but don’t wish to become like the worst of them to do it. It’s sort of reminiscent of Bush administration arguments on the need to defeat the terrorists.

As simply as I can say it: If Obama has fewer elected delegates and fewer popular votes, he should drop out and support Hillary Clinton. He should avoid at all costs making attacks on her which serve as ammunition for the Republicans in November. Most of all, he should never intimate that John McCain is more qualified to be president than Hillary Clinton. So far he has campaigned in that way. She has not. Additionally, it is increaslingly unlikely that she has any chance of winning the most elected delegates or popular vote.

Part and parcel of the plan is to keep people sidetracked with political parties the process, wedge issues and red herrings….. Folks can argue politics all they want. Yet nothing addresses the problem.

11 plus billion$$$ a day we spend just on gasoline? 11 billion $$$ a day!!!! Lower per capita energy costs will benefit America and drilling more oil wells is like enabling a crack addict!!!! WE ARE DUMB!!!!

AS to your first point, I heard Obama say the other day that he is against gay marriage.

Frankly, I don’t believe him (and shame on him if he really is). I sent an email to a gay friend of mine asking him if he knew this about Obama, and he replied that he too doesn’t believe it but that, to become president in this country, that is the public position one HAS to take.

Is that honest or ethical?? No. It’s doing what you have to do to win. I do not fault Obama for that at all. I don’t believe him, so technically I think he’s lying, but I understand it and blame an ignorant electorate for putting him in that position. I do not blame him. What good is he as president if he can’t get there??

As for your second point, it’s Obama supporters who have taken on Republican-like rhetoric and hatred for the Clintons, which I have found very disheartening. As I’ve noted before in here, I finally left the Huffington Post because it has gotten SO vicious and virulent over there where it is 99.9% Obama supporters. Even the Republicans over there never drove me out. You literally could not distinguish it from a right-wing site. I was called a douchebag, asked if I vomit when I look at myself in the mirror, told to hang myself (twice, by two different people), among many, many other horrendous things.

The irony of this, of course, is that Obama’s supporters support him in large part because they believe he’s going to bring change and end all this division and ugliness.

I guess that’ll begin AFTER the primary!

If Obama has fewer delegates and fewer popular votes at the time of the convention but it is the belief of the superdelegates that he has a better shot of beating McCain, then they should choose him, as is their right and as are the rules on the Democratic party and Obama supporters will have to accept it and hopefully will do so graciously (since they’re so concerned about the health of the party!).

If they decide that BECAUSE Obama has more delegates and the popular vote and THAT is why he should get the nomination, then that is their right as well and Clinton supporters will have to accept it, and hopefully graciously.

If it is the will of the people that motivates Obama’s supporters, then they should be insisting on revotes in Michigan and Florida, but they are not. THEN it’s NOT about the voters but about the rules.

There’s a lot of irony in this campaign.

And Clinton was not saying McCain would be better than Obama for the presidency. She was saying she is better equipped to challenge McCain BECAUSE of his experience.

But Obama supporters are clinging fast and hard to the more negative interpretation THEY created for what she said (like Repubs did Gore’s Internet comment and Kerry’s Vietnam testimony). More irony, considering Obama’s supporters are claiming, rightly, that Clinton is putting a negative meaning to Obama’s “bitter” comments.

I’m the first to say that what Obama meant is NOT what Clinton is saying. Obama’s supporters, though seem to be unwilling to do the same w/r/t to the McCain comment by Clinton.

You’d think it’d be those concerned with “truth and ethics” who would be more willing to do so.

With regard to your first point, I don’t know that Obama does believe in gay marriage as opposed to civil union. I don’t care myself, although I certainly believe gay people should be entitled to all of the civil rights straight people are.

I can understand your sense of insult on other blogs. However, that has nothing to do with this site or responses you receive here. My experience was that I tried to explain to you where I parted ways with Hillary Clinton, and still do, and you accused me of dishonest and employing Republican spin. That is essentially the same thing as you were accusing Obama supporters on other blogs.

One more time. My problem with Hillary Clinton is that her statements regarding the fact that she and John McCain were the only ones who had crossed some imaginary commander-in-chief threshold crossed the line. There was no way she could subequently come back and say that Obama had somehow become qualified and was now superior to McCain. I could see no other way to interpret that than a belief that she was willing to go all out for her own nomination, regardless of the potential effects on the party and nation.

That is true.

NEWS FLASH!!

ENERGY “NEW DEAL” “NEW ECONOMY” “INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY AMERICAN STYLE” BASE ON “A WAR ON ENERGY” NOT “WARS FOR ENERGY”

1) FDR announces new deal plan to generate electricity using solar power to liberate hydrogen from salt water, utilizing newly discovered Kanzius Effect.” Steam driven turbines running electrical generators using hydrogen from salt water as fuel released by the power of the sun using a technique accidentally discovered while John Kanzius finds a cure for cancer!

This reminds me of John Westinghouse and his “breaking system for trains” created after suffering and seeing the horrors of train wrecks from passenger trains could not stop fast enough!!! Still happens today!! trainwrecks?

2) FDR proposes Cellusosic ethanol production from Industrial grade Hemp!

One of the worlds most renewable and usable, low cost to produce agricultural products made illegal in USA because “Black men who smoke marijuana rape white women?.”

We pay farmers not to grow “crops” meanwhile industrial grade hemp is illegal, but it yields more ethanol at lower cost than corn and does not stress the food stock supply? What is America’s malfunction here folks!!!! We are being conned and raped in the process. Instead of spending 11 billion $ a day on gas to compete for jobs we do not have how about lower energy costs. Now we can address health care costs instead of using the tax code like a gun to force citizens to pay costly premiums to “tax exempt health corporations” like Blue Cross BS or Kaiser under mandated Health care! We are being raped……………

Once again you are misstating my position on what you said.

I will try and explain it again.

You said you had not heard any alternative BUT that Clinton was saying McCain would be better than Obama as president. I provided an alternative meaning, which is the meaning her own campaign gave.

You continue to reject it.

To say that the alternative is for her to come out and say Obama would be superior to McCain is fallacious because she was NEVER saying that he would or would not be. This is a CAMPAIGN. She was saying she is better able to compete BASED ON EXPERIENCE against McCain in that area. She was saying that Republicans are going to use this against Obama and that Obama is vulnerable but she is not. You can disagree with her, but THAT is what she was saying.

You say you still see no other way to interpret what she said despite my giving you another way to interpret what she said. That indicates a willful refusal to see another way.

But as I said, Obama