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	<title>Comments on: Blowing The Dog Whistle</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/</link>
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		<title>By: David Neiwert</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1389079</link>
		<dc:creator>David Neiwert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 02:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1389079</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m not sure I disagree with you. That was how I tended to look at the data too. And I see it playing out on the ground in places like Colorado and Wyoming and Idaho and Washington — maybe not all that consequential electorally, but it certainly seems to be the dynamic here.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think Paul’s larger point — that for either campaign or its supporters to indulge in either racism or sexism is ultimately destructive to their own cause — is one we should all be able to agree on. Paul does stress the sexism, and as you’ll see in the last part of the series, he does so with good cause. I frankly get very disturbed by some of the repetition of old Limbaughesque tropes about Hillary I hear from Obama supporters. But that cuts the other way with Hillary, too. I have to say that her indulgence of the current “Obama is an elitist” trope probably has a similar effect.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m not sure I disagree with you. That was how I tended to look at the data too. And I see it playing out on the ground in places like Colorado and Wyoming and Idaho and Washington — maybe not all that consequential electorally, but it certainly seems to be the dynamic here.</p>
<p>I think Paul’s larger point — that for either campaign or its supporters to indulge in either racism or sexism is ultimately destructive to their own cause — is one we should all be able to agree on. Paul does stress the sexism, and as you’ll see in the last part of the series, he does so with good cause. I frankly get very disturbed by some of the repetition of old Limbaughesque tropes about Hillary I hear from Obama supporters. But that cuts the other way with Hillary, too. I have to say that her indulgence of the current “Obama is an elitist” trope probably has a similar effect.</p>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1389053</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 02:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1389053</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;My problem with Paul in the last few threads was that he went well beyond what the data and his own analysis demonstrated. At several points people asked questions about his analysis and he accused them of not accepting his results BECAUSE they were Obama supporters and in denial, or spent too much time on the blogs, or were delusional.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Then he started off about how Hillary was clearly the superior candidate when the data and analysis actually showed that because of the factors he stated just the opposite was true. But then he denied that one could make any such claims of relative electability, just that sexism and racism were significant factors, but sexism was more important. His response to folks wondering how Hillary being the better candidate came out of the “data” was simply ansered by the assertion that Hillary’s been dealing with this for decades…Obama’s a neophyte. I’m not sure how such deeply ingrained sexism can be dealt with in the course of a few months.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But then again one strategy to make oneself more electable than the opponent in ones own party is to increase the factor that is the weak point of the other Democrat (i.e. race). Paul pointed out that currently it’s a less critical force than sexism in the scale of people jumping ship. But if racism can be amped up it increasingly makes BOTH McCain and Clinton look like better opponents. Of course, McCain gains more than Clinton by this strategy…but Obama suffers the most…and Hillary can win the nomination.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s analogous to the Cuckoo in the Robin’s nest. The Cuckoo can only survive if the parent robins feed it more than their own nestlings. But in many cases the Cuckoo does die…but so do the Robin chicks. But the strategy only has to work once in awhilre for it to propogate. That’s why Cockoos are still about doing this.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My problem with Paul in the last few threads was that he went well beyond what the data and his own analysis demonstrated. At several points people asked questions about his analysis and he accused them of not accepting his results BECAUSE they were Obama supporters and in denial, or spent too much time on the blogs, or were delusional.</p>
<p>Then he started off about how Hillary was clearly the superior candidate when the data and analysis actually showed that because of the factors he stated just the opposite was true. But then he denied that one could make any such claims of relative electability, just that sexism and racism were significant factors, but sexism was more important. His response to folks wondering how Hillary being the better candidate came out of the “data” was simply ansered by the assertion that Hillary’s been dealing with this for decades…Obama’s a neophyte. I’m not sure how such deeply ingrained sexism can be dealt with in the course of a few months.</p>
<p>But then again one strategy to make oneself more electable than the opponent in ones own party is to increase the factor that is the weak point of the other Democrat (i.e. race). Paul pointed out that currently it’s a less critical force than sexism in the scale of people jumping ship. But if racism can be amped up it increasingly makes BOTH McCain and Clinton look like better opponents. Of course, McCain gains more than Clinton by this strategy…but Obama suffers the most…and Hillary can win the nomination.</p>
<p>It’s analogous to the Cuckoo in the Robin’s nest. The Cuckoo can only survive if the parent robins feed it more than their own nestlings. But in many cases the Cuckoo does die…but so do the Robin chicks. But the strategy only has to work once in awhilre for it to propogate. That’s why Cockoos are still about doing this.</p>
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		<title>By: leinie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1389031</link>
		<dc:creator>leinie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 02:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1389031</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;If he is passionate about his candidate, then he should not try to pass off his writing as unbiased analysis.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Calling people idiots, and “pimping” your candidate is not exactly the most diplomatic way, imo, to generate a real discussion about sexism.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I appreciate his past credentials, but didn’t appreciate the tone of his present post.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Oh, I don’t disagree with you - you’ll notice I blamed the writing in the original post as being the reason it went off the rails.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m waiting to see if he will respond to Cinnamonape’s comment, because she is responding to his post.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If he is passionate about his candidate, then he should not try to pass off his writing as unbiased analysis.</p>
<p>Calling people idiots, and “pimping” your candidate is not exactly the most diplomatic way, imo, to generate a real discussion about sexism.</p>
<p>I appreciate his past credentials, but didn’t appreciate the tone of his present post.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Oh, I don’t disagree with you &#8211; you’ll notice I blamed the writing in the original post as being the reason it went off the rails.  </p>
<p>I’m waiting to see if he will respond to Cinnamonape’s comment, because she is responding to his post.</p>
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		<title>By: Sixty Something</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1389011</link>
		<dc:creator>Sixty Something</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 02:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1389011</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt; I disagree with Paul about Clinton, but he isn’t some loon. He’s just passionate about his candidate, and passionate about the underlying racism/sexism things he’s seeing. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is the man whose FOIA requests got us the information about Bush’s ANG service. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And also in his defense, he wanted to have a discussion that he didn’t get to have - I think his poorly written paragraph caused that, but he really wanted to look at a real issue, sexism. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If he is passionate about his candidate, then he should not try to pass off his writing as unbiased analysis.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Calling people idiots, and “pimping” your candidate is not exactly the most diplomatic way, imo, to generate a real discussion about sexism.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I appreciate his past credentials, but didn’t appreciate the tone of his present post.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> I disagree with Paul about Clinton, but he isn’t some loon. He’s just passionate about his candidate, and passionate about the underlying racism/sexism things he’s seeing. </p>
<p>This is the man whose FOIA requests got us the information about Bush’s ANG service. </p>
<p>And also in his defense, he wanted to have a discussion that he didn’t get to have &#8211; I think his poorly written paragraph caused that, but he really wanted to look at a real issue, sexism. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>If he is passionate about his candidate, then he should not try to pass off his writing as unbiased analysis.</p>
<p>Calling people idiots, and “pimping” your candidate is not exactly the most diplomatic way, imo, to generate a real discussion about sexism.</p>
<p>I appreciate his past credentials, but didn’t appreciate the tone of his present post.</p>
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		<title>By: TeddySanFran</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1388996</link>
		<dc:creator>TeddySanFran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 02:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1388996</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If it was a classified intelligence briefing/exercise at the Pentagon that Congressman (Not Jefferson) Davis and Senator Obama participated in, shouldn’t the Congressman be investigated for revealing details?  Seems to me he’s endangering our country’s national security.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I want to to keep this story alive another day, and that seems like one way to do it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it was a classified intelligence briefing/exercise at the Pentagon that Congressman (Not Jefferson) Davis and Senator Obama participated in, shouldn’t the Congressman be investigated for revealing details?  Seems to me he’s endangering our country’s national security.</p>
<p>I want to to keep this story alive another day, and that seems like one way to do it.</p>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1388960</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1388960</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;So in this simulation I guess Davis is proud he made the decision to blow the world up? I guess ol’ Davis hit the “nuke ‘em” button?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So in this simulation I guess Davis is proud he made the decision to blow the world up? I guess ol’ Davis hit the “nuke ‘em” button?</p>
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		<title>By: MrsK8</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1388948</link>
		<dc:creator>MrsK8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1388948</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Quiet and dignified insistence on the truth combined with persistent love can drive a racist insane.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s as if their strangely twisted psyches start unraveling right in front of you.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Still, I think that there are moments when that approach can break down walls of hatred.  Even if racists continue to refuse to open their hearts, in my opinion it probably is the only “tactic” which has even a small chance of working.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;[And in a nod to the other ongoing conversation in this thread, I think Obama knows this.  His candidacy, in addition to drawing out all the haters into the open, has a chance of creating real moments of healing.]&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quiet and dignified insistence on the truth combined with persistent love can drive a racist insane.</p>
<p>It’s as if their strangely twisted psyches start unraveling right in front of you.</p>
<p>Still, I think that there are moments when that approach can break down walls of hatred.  Even if racists continue to refuse to open their hearts, in my opinion it probably is the only “tactic” which has even a small chance of working.</p>
<p>[And in a nod to the other ongoing conversation in this thread, I think Obama knows this.  His candidacy, in addition to drawing out all the haters into the open, has a chance of creating real moments of healing.]</p>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1388934</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1388934</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Honestly, I am not sure what it is that Hillary is doing that is so dreadful. Her opponent has made an error, he admits that, and she is trying to take advantage of it. This is called politics.&lt;br /&gt;
At any rate, I think some reactions to this are a bit over-the-top.
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The way I see it her approach has been for the last few weeks&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;…vote for me, not my Democratic opponent…because I and the Republican over there are less elitist, more experienced, and both love guns, go to the right churches, and can drink folks under the table. The black guy is unelectable.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I don’t hear Obama cheerleading for McCain if he isn’t nominated.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Honestly, I am not sure what it is that Hillary is doing that is so dreadful. Her opponent has made an error, he admits that, and she is trying to take advantage of it. This is called politics.<br />
At any rate, I think some reactions to this are a bit over-the-top.
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The way I see it her approach has been for the last few weeks</p>
<p>…vote for me, not my Democratic opponent…because I and the Republican over there are less elitist, more experienced, and both love guns, go to the right churches, and can drink folks under the table. The black guy is unelectable.</p>
<p>I don’t hear Obama cheerleading for McCain if he isn’t nominated.</p>
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		<title>By: nonplussed</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1388929</link>
		<dc:creator>nonplussed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:41:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1388929</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Not to worry, you’re preaching to the choir! I dislike the DLC (Intensely is putting it mildly) &amp; have been very turned of by the techniques employed by the Clinton Campaign. No one meets my desires, but of the three, I would go for the big O!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to worry, you’re preaching to the choir! I dislike the DLC (Intensely is putting it mildly) &amp; have been very turned of by the techniques employed by the Clinton Campaign. No one meets my desires, but of the three, I would go for the big O!</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1388915</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 01:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/14/blowing-the-dog-whistle/#comment-1388915</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;does his presidential candidate–John McCain–approve of the remarks?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Someone should ask him if he is going to “denounce and reject” Rep. Davis.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The quiet gentle senator who wrote legislation to authorize torture and in a fit of anger called his wife names in public?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The “moderate” senator who wants us to stay in Iraq forever?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The maverick senator who voted with Bush on everything?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The candidate who is violating Federal Election laws, even as I write this?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You want *him* to denounce another Republican? Fat chance.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>does his presidential candidate–John McCain–approve of the remarks?</p>
<p>Someone should ask him if he is going to “denounce and reject” Rep. Davis.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The quiet gentle senator who wrote legislation to authorize torture and in a fit of anger called his wife names in public?</p>
<p>The “moderate” senator who wants us to stay in Iraq forever?</p>
<p>The maverick senator who voted with Bush on everything?</p>
<p>The candidate who is violating Federal Election laws, even as I write this?</p>
<p>You want *him* to denounce another Republican? Fat chance.</p>
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