We’ve been saying all along that Barack Obama’s candidacy is going to bring out the ugliest face of the Republican Party before long.
But today’s Republicans know that they can’t engage in the open race-baiting of the Strom Thurmond era without endangering their party’s image as "inclusive" — an image intended not so much to appeal to minorities but to moderate voters repelled by overt racism. So they talk in a lot of code about "preserving white culture" and other well-worn tropes, often hinting and nudging at the old race-baiting vocabulary (such as the time Karl Rove talked about that "trash-talking" and "lazy" Obama fellow).
It’s called "dog whistle politics," and Republicans — including John McCain — are its past and present masters.
So it’s kind of funny that everyone’s pretending that the most noteworthy recent example of it — from Rep. Geoff Davis, a Republican from Kentucky — is no big deal (at least, so far, it seems to be getting a pass from the media). Davis told an audience at a Republican fund-raiser:
"I’m going to tell you something: That boy’s finger does not need to be on the button," Davis said. "He could not make a decision in that simulation that related to a nuclear threat to this country."
Wheeeewit!! Here boy!! C’mere an’ get some good ole red meat! And of course [shpittoo], nobody hearing someone call a grown black man "boy" would have any cause to think it meant anything racist, right? [Wink nudge wink]
Davis himself was quick to disclaim that there was any subtext intended:
But Davis campaign spokesman said Davis misspoke and was not directing a racist statement at Obama but instead calling into question his qualifications for office.
"He simply misspoke," said Jeremy Hughes, Davis’ campaign spokesman.
This is, to put it kindly, unadulterated horseshit. We all know that Davis was giving voice to a certain set of racial attitudes, and that he did it as part of a talk before a banquet audience indicates it was clearly intentional. And no one but the most blinkered and gullible Republican (though there are plenty of those, it’s true) should be willing to buy it.
It will be telling, I think, to watch how the media handle it. If we’re supposed to take Davis’ glib manure-spreading at face value, it will speak volumes about a Fourth Estate that makes a fetish out of ostensibly offensive remarks by a black pastor for weeks on end but can’t find the time to consider how Republicans are talking about one of the two remaining Democratic candidates for the presidency.
That’s especially now the case that Davis has apologized. But note how he does so:
On Saturday night I gave a speech in which I used a poor choice of words when discussing the national security policy positions of the Presidential candidates. I was quoted as saying "That boy’s finger does not need to be on the button."
My poor choice of words is regrettable and was in no way meant to impugn you or your integrity. I offer my sincere apology to you and ask for your forgiveness.
Though we may disagree on many issues, I know that we share the goal of a prosperous, secure future for our nation. My comment has detracted from the dialogue that we should all be having on legitimate policy differences and in no way reflects the personal and professional respect I have for you.
That’s all swell and wonderful, but Davis never apologizes for what was most egregiously offensive about the remark — that it referred to Obama the way an old Confederate slaveholder would refer to his holdings, the way old segregationists referred to civil-rights workers. It wasn’t simply that it was offensive, it was that it was classic race-baiting.
And of course, Davis’ defenders have been quick to proclaim him free of racist taint. Already, we can see how it’s going to go:
Campbell County Democratic Party Chairman Ken Mullikin said he could "not believe" Davis would make such a comment.
"When you get somebody in an emotionally charged situation they speak what is on their mind," Mullikin said. "That comment clearly shows what Geoff Davis really believes about African-Americans."
But Northern Kentucky Republicans strongly disagree that Davis is a racist. They said it is Obama who has slammed small town America and working class people with his recent comments that those voters are "bitter" and clinging to guns and religion.
"Geoff Davis is absolutely not a racist," said Fourth District GOP Chairman Kevin Sell of Alexandria, who attended Saturday’s dinner but said this morning he does not recall Davis’ use of the word "boy" to describe Obama.
"I’ve known this man since 2001, and have campaigned with him," Sell said. "This is a man of integrity. All he was doing in that speech was questioning the experience of a candidate and the defense of our country. There was no question about that."
That’s right: that whistle you heard may have brought every dog in town to my yard, but really, you didn’t hear anything.
And besides, it’s those Democrats who are the racists, dontcha know?
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Hello David, I will read this when I get to my Rat hole in a bit.
KO!
That is one hell of a misspeak
I’m growing bitter over this nonsense that has been exploding day after day over the “bitter” nonsense.
Enough already. How about talking about the fact that the Preznit has endorsed illegal activitiey, namely, torture?
Arf!
was “boy” uttered as a two syllable word?
I am already tired of this “Obama is elitist” crap, from the media as well as from Sen. Clinton.
And Keith should know better. He’s not exactly living up to his own standards lately.
right on!!!! enough with this crap, let’s get to the real deal
yeah but you know he had to cover this stupid crap, right?
Just be on the lookout for people doing more and more of this over the next few months.
I was going to link to something but it may not be appropriate. Is there a mod I could ask?
There is no doubt what the representative said and it was a overt racial slur by a bigot. Does his constituency approve of his remarks?
Can you Digg it?
no, he didn’t.
Is no one willing nowadays to point out the ol’ Freudian slip? Even if consciously repudiated, it was unconsciously expressed (and of course, it wasn’t unconscious). But why oh why are these cheats always let off the hook with the I-didn’t-mean-to whine?
He has to counter Tweety who went on about how important Obamas comments were.
HILLS new commercial,is not resonating with me
Tweety will be on the Colbert Report this evening. Which may prove entertaining…
Obama made a comment that wasn’t supposed to get outside the room- it did. He fucked up—hopefully not a fatal mistake but it won’t go over well should christian america see a marxist interpretation of religion in the comments. It can make it hard for Obama to maintain his “I’m a christian” mosaic.”
i am viscerally hating TWEETS
I’m bitter that people are bitter about being bitter from being called bitter. Am I meta enough to be pundit now?
Seriously, what I am curious about is this nuke war game business.
“He could not make a decision in that simulation that related to a nuclear threat to this country.”
What is up with that? Who puts these on, and who gets to play them, and why? Who gets to put their finger on the simulation nuke-em button? Why are people kibbitzing? Did Geoff Davis get his finger on the button? Did he ‘win’ did he blow us all up?
I want to know what he is talking about.
Been reading Little Billy Kristol?
That is my take on it as well but I respect Rev’s displeasure (I do wish it wouldn’t occupy what is now almost a quarter of his show) That means less time on Bush’s admission
im bitter,so are my friends and family! he is correct
Me too.
is elitist the new say to say uppity?
anyway, I would like a president with a triple digit IQ if that’s ok with y’all.
I’m not sure if his use of the word “boy” in his speech was intentional … at least not in the conscious sense.
But he made a point of quoting himself — using the “boy” language, without (as you note) acknowledging that was what was offensive. That was a conscious decision — using the word “boy” may have been a ‘freudian’ slip the first time, using it the second time was clearly not.
Great post, David. Does everyone remember how the White Boys Club reacted when Tiger Woods won his first golf championship? Of course you do. These are the same republicans and other racist assholes of today who learned back then to not say what you really feel out loud. In fact, they were the ones who were harped on because Americans are sick and tired of racism no matter what level. And what have those White Boys Club members learned over the years since then? Loads of money and an affluent background does not make you entitled to win every championship, skin color has nothing to do with anything, and sometimes working hard with very little can achieve the same thing.
si”g”
Racist jack of asses.
I’m getting really bitter about what the press chooses to cover. Still nothing about the POTUS admitting that he cleared torture. Everything about Obama saying that people might be bitter. Might be? I’m bitter as hell.
The “boy” comment got all of 6 seconds. The bitter nonsense got 14 minutes on KO/
Priorities, people.
Better yet, does his presidential candidate–John McCain–approve of the remarks?
Someone should ask him if he is going to “denounce and reject” Rep. Davis.
I was born the year of Brown v Board of education. This year, a black man is in avery good position to become President and he’s still being called “boy.” My goodness, how far we haven’t come.
yup FUZZY ZELLER
he doesn’t know either. he was baffling everyone (including himself) with bullshit
There were a series of “war game” rehearsals by Homeland Security last year…”top something” or something like that…they were all over the country….I’ve lost the link, but there were members of Congress that may have participated, as well as many local officials…
im making teeshirts that say
IM BITTER……..SO!
Love it! Can we buy one when you’re done?
ooooh me likey
I think there is a good chance Obama will be helped by the bitter flap. So far it has not hurt his polling numbers in Pennsylvania, though I guess it is too soon to see how the whole assinine corporate media Kabuki plays out.
I laughed this week. I heard the news announce a piece with ‘Obama on defensive and backpeddling over remark’ then the piece consisted of a sequence of millionaire pundits and media swanks gassing about how his remark was condescending. Not a word about Obama said at all. Not a word from anyone earning less than an annual fortune spouting media gas for a living.
We spent a whole thread looking for a reason why Hillary lies. We got no answer. The person who wrote the last thread is a poster on Taylor Marsh which has become awful. http://taylormarsh.com/ Take a look and see if you want FDL to be like that.
I havent been here much I hope I can come back someday.
Why are you supporting Hillary after 8 years of lies Why do you think that her lies about NAFTA are Ok? Or Tuzla followed up by her Husbands lies.
What a shame
Clinton, on tape on Countdown, just called G.W.Bush “one of two very good men,” if I understood her correctly.
hmm next story on KO, more stupid crap (clinton vs Gore and Kerry)
*sigh* Nooooooooooooooo Chimpy admitted to torture
Not many here support her from what I can tell. The last poster does, however, but as you can see, his/her post did not change any minds.
Who is “you”???
FDL is not biased one way or the other….many commenters have different preferences. Just not McCain, as far as I can tell.
certainly!
in no particular order, how about these:
food and energy prices
the economy in general
the environment
war and militarism
human rights, civil rights, labor rights, the bill of rights
oh, and our president just admitted to being the torturer-in-chief!
I’m now a PA voter and I’m beginning to hate Hillary. Originally I had planned to write in Edwards—folks here can attest to my declaration—but I’m being pushed by Hillary into Obama’s camp. Not that I think he’s the Messiah—he ain’t—but Hillary is making me crazy.
It’s normally not like this and to be honest this just really erupted pretty bad today.
We had a poo flinging thread some time ago to get out the raw emotion but we havge pretty much had the understanding that we would not personally attack one another but that shit seems to have gone out the window.
The Clinton’s are trying to become a version of the Bush family so that’s no suprise.
4036 of our troops have died as of today and Hillary is talking about drinking and shooting. And the Repubs are talking about Obama can’t bowl. What a load of horse pockey!
Nope–Did he say that?
No he just says Obama lies as a response as to why Hillary lies. Why is he a poster?
Smirking all the while as well.
I’ve stopped reading his stuff. No point to it as far as I’m concerned.
i don’t think that is quite true.
ana Millbank,speaking the truth on KO
yep. i can and do.
Not worth focusing on. There are fantastic posters here and it’s not fair to judge the sitte by the actions/opinions of one poster.
sit back and read, you’ll see that there is room at the table for everyone
thank you. I was an Edwards supporters but listening to Obama, I am impressed and feel he will be able to help this country.
Of course he isnt perfect but his take on issues are remarkable.
I have heard him address the constitution too.
John McCain supports President Bush’s policy of torturing human beings.
John McCain:
Worse than Bush
Someone on the teevee suggested that Hillary and Obama’s sniping is carrying on as long as possible to bring out all of the potential attacks now that will be forthcoming from the Pukes once a candidate is nominated in order to get them out of the way. Could be.
I’m not attached to either Obama or Hillary—but will vote for whichever of em is the nominee come November.
As near as I can see, they’ve both been fuckin up regularly and calling attention to the other’s fuckups…Nothin new or even interesting about that….McBush has been having some VERY serious fuckups as well….going to be two badly damaged candidates come November.
Best for Obama if Hillary raises hell about this recent fuck up so that he can claim that it’s “old news” come October- same for Hill.
I do read and have for at least a year.
But if you are supporting a candidate tell us why.
i guess i’ll join you. it certainly isn’t worth getting upset about (not for me) but I will never let anyone get away with insulting me (man, woman or shrub)
Yes…time for a poster or better yet a t-shirt
I believe she was referring to Gore and Kerry.
Maybe but then I don’t think that you can trust the Clintons. They are way too friendly with the Bush family.
I agree, I just didn’t want you to think that we were a bunch of poo flingers
Why is the media covering some “bitter” comment when John McCain is openly and systematicly violating campaign finance law?
Interesting…
neuro – she was referring to Gore and Kerry
riffing off the Obitterpalooza – (and I’m paraphrasing) ‘two very good men lost bec they were perceived by a significant portion of the electorate to be elitist’
Rove may be entitled to some royalties here
I was talking about that particular piece. I am eager to see something from ordinary folk who are supposed to be bitter. Do you know of any clips on the internet?
because McCain makes great ribs, Obama not so much. damn elitist eats arugula. you can’t put bbq sauce on arugula
No, I figured a FDL poster that all FDL approved.
Thanks
Oh, my, yes he did.
OH. I mised the link in your comment. Thanks.
I have my personal thoughts too, but I just try to stay out of the preference discussion most of the time, because it is so divisive. McCain is the problem. Obama can take care of himself, and if Clinton gets nominated, she can too.
Oh, I hope so. In the context of her remarks about the candidates for president in 2000 and 2004, I thought she was talking about the nominees.
Speaking of that….I was watching C-SPAN a few weeks ago and they had Barbara Bush on a panel taking questions. When a question was raised about her husband’s relationship with Bill Clinton she said in part (paraphrasing), “I was so disappointed the American people didn’t see their relationship as a good thing. We really wanted to show Americans if these two families could unite…our whole nation could”. OMG! I can’t tell you how many times I gave her the finger after she said that.
Americans have had enough of the Clintons & the Bushes. The End.
Here’s a funny—ironic kinda funny. Obama beats McSame in MI but Hillary loses to him.
I don’t mind saying, I’m still vaguely in Hillary’s column but willing to be undecided between the two senators. I am, however, fully decided against McShrub. No McShrub. That’s how I’m voting. No to McShrub. No to racism and race-baiting. No to sexism and gender-baiting. No to bitter old white men. Just no. Enough.
G.E. etal.
Such a misspoke is never a once off the top of your head but rather is ingrained in your very fiber of being. You may suppress your words but it has a way of creeping out. Imagine what Geoff Davis says around his intimate friends and what they say to him.
I just added dog-whistle politics to my descriptive phrase choices. My, my!
from there you can go to the original articles, but rosen puts it in some perspective, which imo, is a nice place to start.
Lieberman has been pushing ‘Maybe Obama is a Marxist’ line also.
McBitter
Yes…how does McCain feel about this comment?
Honestly Snowbird, I had no idea that poster was connected to the fake journalist/fake everything/to get in high places/…Taylor Marsh. Maybe there should have been a disclaimer telling us that?
funny, I never watch CNN anymore but caught a few minutes of Jack Cafferty talking abut his 3000+ emails on this –
he said the overwhelming majority of letters were sympathetic and agreed with Senator Obama – Jack – “people really get what he was saying”
Put a question mark at the end and I’ll buy one!
Geoff Davis – the audacity of racism….followed up by some of my best friends are black…
Code.
Traitor Joe is inching very close to the irrelevant chasm. About to fall into it, actually.
KO is talking about McCain’s finances.
i love arugula with reggiano,and olive oil and pepper
Now, KO IS covering McCain’s campaign finance law offenses. Good for him.
about 36 minutes late into the program.
Could we just give him a little nudge? I would gladly assist.
ot – heads up for the c-span junkies (that haven’t already seen it). tomorrow’s hearings include:
9:30 am – House Armed Services
Building Partnership Capacity and Development of the Interagency Process.
Robert M. Gates, Secretary of Defense
Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of State
Michael G. Mullen, USN, Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff
1 pm – House Judiciary
Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties
Hearing on H.R. 3189, the “National Security Letters Reform Act of 2007”
as reported by the ACLU, witnesses will include:
Glenn Fine, DOJ Inspector General
Valerie Caproni, FBI General Counsel
Jameel Jaffer, director of the ACLU National Security Project
2:30 pm – Senate Foreign Relations
To hold hearings to examine protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949….
John B. Bellinger, Legal Adviser, Department of State
Charles A. Allen, Deputy General Counsel, International Affairs, Department of Defense
Brigadier General Michelle D. Johnson, Deputy Director for the War on Terrorism and Global Effects, J-5 Strategic Plans and Policy Directorate, Joint Staff
you got it
*sigh*
what a sad, sad man
Hmm- Not surprising- it does echo that sentiment. I’ve always thought that the concept was pretty bad as a scientific explanation- but it’s not the sort of thing that a person wants to be caught saying in a presidential election in any event…
yup…tripe
does that go well with a shot and a beer?
Hillary is making me crazy too. I supported her for a good long time, but she’s now making a fool of herself.
Thanks for reminder. I’m one of those C-SPAN junkies. Are there other stations?
Thank you for the heads up!!!
I disagree with Paul about Clinton, but he isn’t some loon. He’s just passionate about his candidate, and passionate about the underlying racism/sexism things he’s seeing.
This is the man whose FOIA requests got us the information about Bush’s ANG service.
And also in his defense, he wanted to have a discussion that he didn’t get to have – I think his poorly written paragraph caused that, but he really wanted to look at a real issue, sexism.
Please don’t take this as a defense of Taylor Marsh, though. That site is just out there.
we do care, wtf? why would he say we don’t care?
hahahahahahahahaha
Haven’t has a shot and a beer for years—I have some good memories of it- but for some reason it doesn’t sound good any more.
that’s what we were doing in CT in 2006 – nudging. *g*
LOL Gross. *plugging nose*
Oh, and he shouldn’t have called us idiots, that wasn’t cool, but I blame the Taylor Marsh influence.
I agree, it was a provocative and interesting post. It just got a little personal there for a little bit…which was a bit rattling…
i despise the clintons. but not clinton’s supporters. you are right, imo, paul has more than earned the benefit of the doubt.
I feel the same way and neither she nor Bill recognize one iota of their gigantic flaws. I cannot describe how she makes me feel when she sides with McCain like this will get her elected. Desperate people are truly frightening. This reveal how she will go about in her decision-making.
well that will win a lotta friends and influence people
Honestly, I am not sure what it is that Hillary is doing that is so dreadful. Her opponent has made an error, he admits that, and she is trying to take advantage of it. This is called politics.
At any rate, I think some reactions to this are a bit over-the-top.
as this primary goes on it gets uglier and uglier – even within the progressive community….. mcinsane doesnt have to say anything – its being done for him…..
fouling one’s own nest has never been a winning strategy.
Obama said bitter.. Hillary and Grover Norquist act like Obama said bit her.
i dont feel what he said is a mistake,i know many desperate bitter people worrying about foreclosure,and many other things
Agree
He fucked up- she pointed it out. That’s what you do when you run against someone…
I wouldn’t vote for someone who wouldn’t try to exploit a competitor’s fuck up (unless she/he already had the thing won.)
I won’t give money to a candidate who won’t play hard.
He once called me an unintelligent troll a couple of years ago…oh, well…at least I know I’m not a troll…*g*…you just can’t let that get to you…He’s just very passionate I guess.
Signed,
Fevered Stupid Troll Idiot – LS
what if you fowl your nest”g”
Thank you, David!
Once again, you speak the truth directly and simply.
I am sick to death of the cancer which is racism in this country.
As a white woman, I am incensed at what other whites think they can get away with saying in my presence.
And I won’t keep my mouth shut about it, either.
In spite of lack of “seniority” in my part-time job, when one of the “senior” folks told me the sad sob story about having lived in New Mexico where she was forced to deal with “those people” [Hispanics] who outnumbered her significantly — she was looking for sympathy from me! — I looked up from my computer screen, looked her straight in the eye, smiled warmly, and said “What a WONDERFUL experience for you! You were so LUCKY! I think EVERY white person in America should get the chance, even if only for a short time, to know what it is like to be in a small minority….DON’T YOU?” [I mean, how dare she! Just because I am white as she is, how dare she assume that I share her attitudes about “those people”? Especially since I’ve had the great good fortune, during multiple times of life, to be a “minority” in living situations, workplaces, and social settings — and that only gives me a TINY INKLING of what life can be like for “others.”]
She looked as though someone had dumped a bucket of cold water on her, and immediately started babbling very strangely, like her psyche was unravelling…and I think it was.
It frustrates me that I can’t reach through the teevee screen and grab Tweety to shake him silly when he talks about the difference in political response between African Americans and “normal people” [WTF!?@#$%!!!], so the very LEAST I can do is respond when dog whistles are blown in my immediate environment.
Thank you, David, for continuing to speak out. My admiration for your work continues.
im bitter,im pissed,im proud of paying attention
after rescuing bear stearns – corp will lay off 1/2 the employees….. yeahhh alls well in america
He said so himself.
Plus, once and for all, the mistake wasn’t the ‘bitter’ portion of his remarks but the ‘clinging’ to God and guns aspect.
Now, I don’t think it was a disqualifying error, but it definitely was a groaner. As such, I do not see anything wrong with his opponent trying to score points with it.
no body at the top,im sure!
bear stearns wasn’t rescued, jp morgan was.
oops – i knew that……
From one redneck to another Mr. Davis I am going to rip off your head and shit down your neck.
again,i believe he is correct,thats why chimp was so successful,guns gays and god
jp morgan rescued Bear sterns
Thanks for the kind words, Mrs. K8, but mostly, thanks for being one of the people who speaks out.
Here’s a little aside: Washington Mutual layed-off most of their loan departments so a lot of people are out there looking for work. People who were with them for years got the axe. So what if you’re the sole supporter of your family! Go stand in some bread line. Many of these people stayed loyal to WaMu through thick and thin but in the end, the loyalty went one way. Ahhh corporate capitalism!
Dog whistle politics and KKKRovian tactics are all the Repugs have left in their election toolbox…! ;-)
they should not however be bitter
Someone this morning said Google and I did
here is one piece from him
http://www.taylormarsh.com/arc…..p?id=27036
And this from the Google
I didnt even put her link on this morning as I am ashamed that she calls herself a Dem and didnt want to give her traffic but now that FDL includes him I guess its OK.
@ 138 that should read loan and mortgage department. Don’t forget the mortgage.
I haven’t seen the last thread. I’m upset about the whole Bosnia thing. There is no reason to lie in a campaign. And Bill saying he respects McCain and that his wife does too is what did me in. There is NOTHING to respect about John McCain. Especially since he has voted for torture.
Well, I have lived in small towns all of my life, except when I was earning my degrees, and faith and hunting have been a part of small town culture for generations in good times and bad.
So, based on my life experiences, I think you and Obama are wrong. Of course, you are entitled to your opinions.
I don’t hold grudges so when the opportunity presents itself (maybe after this primary is over) to have the discussion, I look forward to it
It put an end to Tuzla
but drinking with the boys?
thanks and as a result layoffs of 1/2 their employees….. now thats just great doncha know – oh man its rough out here
Now you’re really making me want to go back and read the last thread!
He has apologized. His explanation was a good one.
((LS))
from a delusional idiot *g*
i am a sharpshooter 3rd bar nra member,a real annie oakley since im 6…the republicans use guns gays and god as WEDGE ISSUES
me, too. i’ve got to stop taking those senior citizen naps. :)
Im worried for ALL of us
I dont like that Hillary is using Rovian tactics.
OT but equally depressing:
http://www.legitgov.org/#breaking_news
US is ‘undermining’ Afghan trials –Report says US is standing by while international standards for fair trials are violated 13 Apr 2008 A report by a US-based rights group has said the United States is failing the Afghan government by contributing to violations of fair trial standards. Human Rights First says the US is not providing adequate evidence in cases of former prisoners from Guantanamo Bay being tried in Afghan courts. It says the detainees are being put on trial with little or no evidence.
Read this morning thread too
Hillary is using Clinton tactics.
Look, as far as Tuzla goes, I think Hillary lied. I expect those opposed to her to point this out and score points. Unlike some here, I try to hold both candidates to the same standard.
As far as having a drink with the boys. Good for her.
I don’t either, but those are the tactics that either candidate will have to weather in November, so…might as well practice now…
“sighg”
yess so am i …
yea…he can handle it,of course the media is REAL SCUZ
we need to pull together!
David, you are kind and self-effacing. But I can scarcely imagine the kind of dreck that shows up in your email in-box from people who hate you passionately for the very public work that you do.
But you are quite right that it is up to every single one of us to speak up in our own social environments.
Silence = Assent.
And for those very rare times (like experiences I’ve had as an observer in a board of directors meeting, or even in the middle of a Catholic Mass during a sermon) when actually VOCALIZING dissent is more detrimental than helpful, there is always the dissent of the FEET — walking out!
Obama said this today
snowbird says–”
We spent a whole thread looking for a reason why Hillary lies. We got no answer.”
==============
yep, that’s what was done the whole entire fucking thread, however, that’s not what the post was about…..and the other four.
i’m amazed that noone here remembers who the hell he is. and what he has done in his life.
i am so pissed and disgusted i don’t even know what to type first.
you trashed what you THOUGHT he said, then when he tries to tell you no, you keep it up and dig it deeper, and throw more shitty crap at him, when he’s not even saying that in the first place..one after the other on and on..he threw it back and people called him shitty…….man oh man. i have never used this word, but what a CLUSTERFUCK.
a pile-on to a man to whom we owe a lot.
AND he is not a taylor marsh shrill. least i don’t THINK he is, i don’t know of him from there.
i hope when you figure out who he is and all he has done FOR ALL OF US, that you have to run for the toilet when you realize how he was treated here.
cuz it’s sure makin’ me barf my guts out.
adios.
he is a steel magnolia imo
true indeed but as i see it we’re being driven apart just within the prog community…. i dont know whats the answer but the mood is very ugly imo…. jus sayin
and wobbly, i left you a note responding to your ’i’m innocent’, again, in the last thread.
adios.
im exceedingly sorry but did not agree with him on his basic premise,sorry
devide and CONQUER just sayin
PBS program on Walt Whitman
The problem was that when we asked how he supported her lies he answered Obama lies too!
YUP!!!
Can I just say, I like you?
We need to unite against McCain . He is dangerous and the times too perilous to let this go on.
I feel we have a gift with Obama. I have come to believe he is the real thing.
I cannot abide lies. I just cannot.
Well, I wish I were as brave. To be honest, I have difficult speaking up in some family situations, mostly because I don’t like creating difficulties for my parents. My parents are fine, but some of our extended family is … well, they’re from Idaho. What can I say?
we have hadenough lies for centuries,the big ONE led us to war,and death
Well, FWIW, Paul is tough and can dish it out as well as he takes it. I completely agree, though, that people weren’t taking the time to listen to what he was saying. And I say that as an Obama supporter (not a fervent one, though, by any means) myself.
But yeah, people forget that Paul’s dogged and methodical research played a big role in the truth finally getting out about Bush’s military records. Not that it makes him untouchable, but you’d wish people would give him his props.
Any particular reason I’m at the recieving end of your wrath? You cut and pasted what I said from the last two threads? he and I had a run in this morning where he called me (indirectly) delusional. When his next thread came up, I first was not going to comment but i went over anyway and after reading it, I had some issues with his premise, hence my giving full disclosure and asking if voting against Hillary makes on sexist? You cutting and pasting my random comments out of its context does nothing
yes
i shall never forget,and it will always make me sad
http://images.google.com/imgre…..l%26sa%3DG
Just remember the assholes are all laughing at us! Think about “Operation Chaos” and picture that gnarly dickhead Rush Limbaugh’s clownish mug snickering, while sucking on that long cigar…
yea like these
http://images.google.com/imgre…..l%26sa%3DG
No link
I am sad too. I think that Hillary wont quit and the media who is enjoying this will make sure McCain wins.
i think 184 works,crosses finger
I have made some art using some images but my heart breaks. I have grands and why should it be any children who die young.
I have been a pacifist forever.
Paul did some really serious work on the TANG case. I’ll never blow him off just becaus eof that. I simply know that GWB’s stuff is BS, I’m a Texas boy…
I love the hopeful feeling I get when Obama speaks and he has children too.There is a video today of him stopping to call his girls.
mcinsane gets great press never a glove laid on him – obama? – every thing he says – parsed and parsed again and again…..
Funny how, in one slam, they call him ‘elitist’ and then, in another slam, they call him ‘boy’.
Wow, those two labels could hardly be more different. Of course, neither is appealing and that’s the point. Whether they’re true really doesn’t matter to either Hillary or Republicans.
BTW, has Clinton joined Joe Lieberman’s political party?
Is 085 big enough? Heh.
Hooo boy, David, do I know what you mean.
Almost a year ago my husband and I were back home (I don’t think we’ll ever feel like AZ is “home”) in the Northeast. While visiting my uncle, my long-deceased mom’s last living sibling, and his wife (my godmother), he made a remark suggesting he thought interracial dating was abhorrent.
Initially, all I said was, “sorry, but I don’t agree with that.” I would have been content to leave it there, but once his rhetoric ratcheted up, I finally informed him that, although my dear husband is quite pale-skinned, that I had dated widely across the racial spectrum during my long years of singlehood.
What ensued was very disturbing and sad and even scary. Through the whole of his loud, red-faced screed all I could say — calmly, quietly — was that the faith I was brought up in made it necessary for me to state my disagreement with his opinions, but that I was not intent on causing him distress. I told my elderly uncle I love him very much, and when I moved my upturned hand toward his and he recoiled physically at my approach, everyone in the room gasped as one.
I admit that later, away from that room, I sobbed my heart out. Not because I cared that he thought that dating !@#$%^s was despicable, but because I had never known till that moment the depth of his racial hatred.
that is what is wrong. Marsh is vicious and Larry Johnson worse.why is he over there writing and using their talking points to defend Hillary ?
We asked a simple question.
He is a Dem and we need to stop this division before it is too late.
What’s a Marxist interpretation of religion? That religions often serve as a functional institution of spiritual, financial and community support when there is an external economic or social collapse?
Or that it’s an “opiate of the people” that numbs them from the external collapse?
Obama’s mom was an anthropologist…I suspect his own view is closer to the first “Marxist” definition. But anthropologists are a peculiar form of “elitists” – they actually do try tounderstand what’s happening in the groups they are interested in, and are quite sympathetic and non-judgemental about them.
And thgey don’t try to pander or manipulate them for their own purposes. I’ve seen a whole lotta that in the last couple of days.
And you should be, as should any sane person. I have never determined why naked people are considered obscene, while the most egregious mayhem is considered perfectly acceptable fare for our impressionable teenagers.
Great story, Mrs K8 — and sadly, not a terribly uncommon one.
The quiet gentle senator who wrote legislation to authorize torture and in a fit of anger called his wife names in public?
The “moderate” senator who wants us to stay in Iraq forever?
The maverick senator who voted with Bush on everything?
The candidate who is violating Federal Election laws, even as I write this?
You want *him* to denounce another Republican? Fat chance.
Not to worry, you’re preaching to the choir! I dislike the DLC (Intensely is putting it mildly) & have been very turned of by the techniques employed by the Clinton Campaign. No one meets my desires, but of the three, I would go for the big O!
The way I see it her approach has been for the last few weeks
…vote for me, not my Democratic opponent…because I and the Republican over there are less elitist, more experienced, and both love guns, go to the right churches, and can drink folks under the table. The black guy is unelectable.
I don’t hear Obama cheerleading for McCain if he isn’t nominated.
Quiet and dignified insistence on the truth combined with persistent love can drive a racist insane.
It’s as if their strangely twisted psyches start unraveling right in front of you.
Still, I think that there are moments when that approach can break down walls of hatred. Even if racists continue to refuse to open their hearts, in my opinion it probably is the only “tactic” which has even a small chance of working.
[And in a nod to the other ongoing conversation in this thread, I think Obama knows this. His candidacy, in addition to drawing out all the haters into the open, has a chance of creating real moments of healing.]
So in this simulation I guess Davis is proud he made the decision to blow the world up? I guess ol’ Davis hit the “nuke ‘em” button?
If it was a classified intelligence briefing/exercise at the Pentagon that Congressman (Not Jefferson) Davis and Senator Obama participated in, shouldn’t the Congressman be investigated for revealing details? Seems to me he’s endangering our country’s national security.
I want to to keep this story alive another day, and that seems like one way to do it.
If he is passionate about his candidate, then he should not try to pass off his writing as unbiased analysis.
Calling people idiots, and “pimping” your candidate is not exactly the most diplomatic way, imo, to generate a real discussion about sexism.
I appreciate his past credentials, but didn’t appreciate the tone of his present post.
Oh, I don’t disagree with you – you’ll notice I blamed the writing in the original post as being the reason it went off the rails.
I’m waiting to see if he will respond to Cinnamonape’s comment, because she is responding to his post.
My problem with Paul in the last few threads was that he went well beyond what the data and his own analysis demonstrated. At several points people asked questions about his analysis and he accused them of not accepting his results BECAUSE they were Obama supporters and in denial, or spent too much time on the blogs, or were delusional.
Then he started off about how Hillary was clearly the superior candidate when the data and analysis actually showed that because of the factors he stated just the opposite was true. But then he denied that one could make any such claims of relative electability, just that sexism and racism were significant factors, but sexism was more important. His response to folks wondering how Hillary being the better candidate came out of the “data” was simply ansered by the assertion that Hillary’s been dealing with this for decades…Obama’s a neophyte. I’m not sure how such deeply ingrained sexism can be dealt with in the course of a few months.
But then again one strategy to make oneself more electable than the opponent in ones own party is to increase the factor that is the weak point of the other Democrat (i.e. race). Paul pointed out that currently it’s a less critical force than sexism in the scale of people jumping ship. But if racism can be amped up it increasingly makes BOTH McCain and Clinton look like better opponents. Of course, McCain gains more than Clinton by this strategy…but Obama suffers the most…and Hillary can win the nomination.
It’s analogous to the Cuckoo in the Robin’s nest. The Cuckoo can only survive if the parent robins feed it more than their own nestlings. But in many cases the Cuckoo does die…but so do the Robin chicks. But the strategy only has to work once in awhilre for it to propogate. That’s why Cockoos are still about doing this.
I’m not sure I disagree with you. That was how I tended to look at the data too. And I see it playing out on the ground in places like Colorado and Wyoming and Idaho and Washington — maybe not all that consequential electorally, but it certainly seems to be the dynamic here.
I think Paul’s larger point — that for either campaign or its supporters to indulge in either racism or sexism is ultimately destructive to their own cause — is one we should all be able to agree on. Paul does stress the sexism, and as you’ll see in the last part of the series, he does so with good cause. I frankly get very disturbed by some of the repetition of old Limbaughesque tropes about Hillary I hear from Obama supporters. But that cuts the other way with Hillary, too. I have to say that her indulgence of the current “Obama is an elitist” trope probably has a similar effect.