Chris Matthews talking about McCain this a.m., but then Weekend Today starts right in with the Obama “bitter” story….Russet concern trolling over the parsing…

Mention of Bush admitting to knowing about his senior counsel micromanaging torture to be discussed on MTP? Don’t hold your breath.

It’s all about the horserace.

Good Morning Prairie,

You can see I had Marion on my mind this morning.

MTP cover torture? aHAHAHA!
Notice he stays in his comfort zone with his Xperts, Carville-Matalin, Shrum and Murphy. Dependable, reliable, expected.
Love his promo:

“With less than 10 days to the Pennsylvania primary, we will devote the full hour to insights and analysis on Decision 2008 with four of the sharpest minds in politics“

my bold

So?

Morning firepups and Elliot as well as Prairie Sunshine

Good Morning Jim,

I’m bitter, are you?

mmmmm… pancakes….

does that mean he’s saying he thinks they are a bunch of pinheads?
Morning all. It’s chilly and rainy in Upstate New York this morning. We are paying for our nice sunny warm day yesterday.

at least he called them among the best known names in consulting

Wonder if they’ll bring up the “tell me something I don’t know” moment on Matthews Show when one of his panelists told him there are efforts to make Hillary’s next job Governor of New York.

Going to go get some bitter orange juice to go with my morning microwave omelet now. coffee still perking…

Mornin’ risin’ pups

Good morning to all.

Yummy pancakes, my favorite breakfast food.

does that mean he’s saying he thinks they are a bunch of pinheads?

I think so. lol!!

Yep..me too..I’m thinking nasty thoughts about the blueberries I’ve got in the freezer from last summer.

Wow, good job on holding onto the blueberries, I would’ve had them devoured by now. The place I normally go to for breakfast always has a matching butter (for example vanilla walnut) for the pancakes special.

…Weekend Today starts right in with the Obama “bitter” story….Russet concern trolling over the parsing…

Bitter Voters For Obama

NBC’s Meet The Press: James Carville (D), Mary Matalin (R), Mike Murphy (R), Bob Shrum (D). “With less than 10 days to the Pennsylvania primary, we will devote the full hour to insights and analysis on Decision 2008 with four of the sharpest minds in politics”

Isn’t that entire sentence an oxymoron?

Or just one referring to a bunch of morons? – more coffee please….

Wonder if they’ll bring up the “tell me something I don’t know” moment on Matthews Show when one of his panelists told him there are efforts to make Hillary’s next job Governor of New York.

I missed that one. Part of this effort to get her to drop out? I live in PA and I’d like to vote on the 22nd. Let we-the-voters decide who the candidate is.

I am bitter? Torture at highest levels? Ho Hum by MSM?

Looking forward to seeing President Carter on ABC. He is the jewel in this mornings lineup. Would be nice if he endorses Obama and closes the door on all this “bitter” Bullsh%t.

Gonna take a pass on MTP for probably the first time in over 20 years. Can’t stomach C&M anymore. They are phonies.

Gonna take a pass on MTP for probably the first time in over 20 years. Can’t stomach C&M anymore. They are phonies.

Fucking Timmeh – subjecting the entire country to utterly uncalled-for cruel and unusual punishment early on a Sunday morning.

What have I ever done to him?

The place I normally go to for breakfast always has a matching butter (for example vanilla walnut) for the pancakes special.

What a yummy joint, MM. I’ve got me a Burger King around the corner, they don’t do it your way.

Happy moanin’…will the corporate media pressure any Republican to admit that ’sustainable peace’ is unsustainable without 160,000 or more US ground troops risking their lives and limbs forever and at a cost of trillions of US dollars? Who in the TeeVee media will ask if ’sustainable peace’ is only for Chevron to recover Chevron’s oil.

What a yummy joint, MM. I’ve got me a Burger King around the corner, they don’t do it your way.

It is, however I must go to Friendly’s this am, where the pancakes are just the average sort. I’m in search of the illusive glass ketchup bottle for a prop. The diners around here only have the plastic kind, as well as supermarkets.

Aren’t Timmeh’s “four sharpest minds in politics” all currently unemployed?

Looking forward to seeing President Carter on ABC. He is the jewel in this mornings lineup.

You’re right, Jimmy Carter is a jewel. He’s in Katmandu to oversee Nepal’s election. I know little about the changes in Nepal but the win by the Maoists was unexpected.

The complete results of the elections might come only after 10 to 12 days. But the trends suggest that though the other major political parties – the Nepali Congress and the Communist Party of Nepal-Unified Marxist-Leninist – might win some more seats, both could end up playing the role of junior partners to the Maoists.
from Thaindian News

The Obama “bitter” narrative only demonstrates he is in touch with what is going on. This anti Obama driven hoopla over his remarks is absurd and Hillary is having a hell of a time blowing it out of proportion earger to distract from her interminable list of lies and shortcomings. She, who cannot tell a straight truth, embellisher par excellence. Trotting right behind her disingenuous disbarred impeached husband whose own presidential legacy is on the line if Obama should win and make his 8 years in the presidency sort of obsolete. And I say this as someone whose family represents 16 votes for the couple along the years. I am ashamed to be Hillary’s constituent who twice voted for her- considering the manner in which she is conducting her campaign. An absolute disgrace.
As far as the Sunday talking heads go, on Meet the Press, the same clowns, over and over. I am sick and tired of the Carville & Matalin show. They are so passe, they’ve become an anachronism. Mr. Russert, retire them already!

that was the fate of the peaches we froze, unfortunately. Last summer, we made it our business to pick and freeze peaches, blueberries and raspberries. We try to make the treats last…

Aren’t Timmeh’s “four sharpest minds in politics” all currently unemployed?

Hey hi jayt! They should be. And if we keep at it, they will be. :)

He really does maintain his comfort zone. Only the compliant need appear.

hiya Elliott.

Did ya see that Jeff Lomonaco finally got round to apologizing to you at the bottom of the book thread yesterday?

Mornin’, Sunshine and Elliot and . . . well, everyone, gosh darn it. The sun is finally shining in MN and temp moving into the 60s at long last. And I feel bitter better already. No, wait. My candidate of choice asked for orange juice, you say? While the woman who has just gotten in touch with her inner huntress drinks bourbon with the guys and reminisces about her gun days? I am breathlessly awaiting the Hardball analysis of that one!

The way Russet was hyping MTP on Weekend Today was all process and parsing…look for more of the same with the best knowns.

Y’know, this kind of micropunditing is kinda like BushCo micromanaging torture. And we’ve all seen those pictures of Matalin hovering in the background of those top WH meetings. And here she is on MTP…..

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…….

Methinks I’ll reread the full text of Moyers’ speech and remind myself [and urge that it be required reading for every journalist and prejournalist and “journalist” in the country] that once there was a true Meet the Press and a real Fourth Estate.

The aspect of Obama’s remark that is damaging to his campaign isn’t the “bitter” part, it is the suggestion that as a result of this bitterness small town folks cling to guns or God.

public service announcement for those of us without HBO:

Did ya know that Real Time with Bill Maher is normally available in full, in five or six installments, on YouTube the next day?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3IhdMkM37k

(my favorite segment from this week’s, wherein Dana Priest and Richard Clarke have a thing or two to say about CondiCondiCondi)…

yes thank you, jayt, a simple misunderstanding.

I thought the introduction was thorough and honest. And it was a great discussion. I still have a lot of questions but it was nice to be able to speak with the author. I love Book Salons, but don’t often pipe up.

This afternoon’s should be interesting, too:
Party Crashing: How the Hip-Hop Generation Declared Political Independence

I can say, with some quite considerable experience in small towns, that it has always been so, whether as a result of “bitterness” or not…

Later, Maher went into a screed about the girl getting beaten into unconsciousness by 8 other girls for play on youtube and said she probably brought it on herself….

We turned it off.

The bully culture pervades America from the WH on down and Maher is okay with that?

That is exactly why that aspect of the remark is damaging.

yeah, his own audience was booing him on that one.

otoh, a man with such strong opinions is bound, by the law of averages, to come up bone-headed occasionally. I forgive him, though he was egregiously wrong on that isssue.

The sun is finally shining in MN and temp moving into the 60s at long last.

Glad it’s warming up there!
This week Mr. Cardinal set up his property lines in the back yard. Spring is just starting to move from yellow to pink here. The Magnolias around the neighborhood are blooming and I’ve seen a couple weeping cherries, too.

imo Maher has some “issues” with women.

Magnolias! Ah, crikey. Here, we celebrate the emergence of winter-browned grass. *g*

Frank Rich offers food for thought this morning on the “look away” attitude these days:

but a leading indicator of where our entire culture is right now. It’s not just torture we want to avoid. Most Americans don’t want to hear, see or feel anything about Iraq, whether they support the war or oppose it. They want to look away, period, and have been doing so for some time.

‘xactly, Elliott. Misogynist of the first order.

That is exactly why that aspect of the remark is damaging.

Big-city guy goes out into the countryside – culture shock.

OK

Fox News Sunday
Bitter Bitter Bitter Bitter Bitter Bitter Bitter Bitter Bitter.

as one of my favorite people would say “in the scheme of things …”

This morning’s excuse for a newspaper has a cover story, complete with nearly half-page photo, about physical fitness. And wee stories about our run-amok governor’s acid-ink veto pen AND a little nod to Pope Benedict’s U.S. visit. Is it true that he’s declined to dine at the White House?

yep. Saw it over at thinkprogress.

Our local rag’s front page is uninsured youngpeople and a hype tie-in story for Parade’s salary issue. Gack.

Merriam Webster re bitter:

1 a: being or inducing the one of the four basic taste sensations that is peculiarly acrid, astringent, or disagreeable and suggestive of an infusion of hops — compare salt, sour, sweet b: distasteful or distressing to the mind : galling
2: marked by intensity or severity: a: accompanied by severe pain or suffering b: being relentlessly determined : vehement c: exhibiting intense animosity d (1): harshly reproachful (2): marked by cynicism and rancor e: intensely unpleasant especially in coldness or rawness

Well, now, I’d say bitterness is a national condition. Next up: Guns and God. Where’s RevDeb when we need her?

Is it true that he’s declined to dine at the White House?

Pontiff not attending dinner in his honor, White House says

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/….._0411.html

Odd for a Republican Pope, methinks. Maybe I don’t hate him so much after all…

Oh, poo! Universe ate number 3 definition for bitter, to wit:

3: expressive of severe pain, grief, or regret

the same article I cited also says that His Holiness (cough) refuses to even enter The White House.

But it says he’ll participate in a Rose Garden and Oval Office meeting. Re the dinner dis, perhaps he views it as the din of inequity.

So “bitter” is on the front page of the Philly Inquirer—not the Natl. Inquirer, mind you—and no where in the front page section, NO WHERE, is there anything about the WH torture meetings. Nor is it mentioned ANYWHERE in the “Currents” expanded Sunday editorial section.

Welcome to the American Reich, Owned and operated by Corpo America to serve it’s needs.

Disgusted here.

Man, those pancakes look tasty!

coffee anyone?

Q I’m sorry. The pope doesn’t attend a dinner in his honor?
MR. STANZEL: No.
Q (Off mike.)
MR. STANZEL: He doesn’t come into the building.

But you’re right – it also says he’ll take a meeting in the Oval Office.

What the hell, the entire story came outta The White House – what would a WH story be without a few inherent contradictions and outright lies?

Maybe he’ll invite the Chimperor for a meeting in a confessional booth at whatever the local Basilica is in DC (don’t know my DC church geography)

“Moron” being the operative word. My, my, they certainly do love to pat each other on the ass don’t they? CNN was practically orgasmic over the “bitter” story. No mention of yet another confirmation of criminality. Bitter? Damn skippy I am bitter!!!!

Maybe he’ll invite the Chimperor for a meeting in a confessional booth…

But isn’t George due to attend a ceremony on 1-20-09? I mean, that would be one looooong confession….

Great piece by Jane Smiley at HuffPost. She is furious about the parsing attack on Obama, sans even the most remote consideration of foundation and truth of his remarks. I am SO tired of this horrible campaign!

In MN’s third congressional district, there was a fierce but principled battle for Dem endorsement of a candidate yesterday. Terri Bonoff was the odds-on favorite in the beginning. But an upstart young Iraq vet named Ashwin Madia emerged. He got traction. The contest resulted in 8 ballots. At that point, Bonoff graciously withdrew, recognizing that the need for Dems to take back that district after a 50-year Republican domination is the most important thing.

Should Hillary withdraw? Oh, probably not. But Miss Manners needs to straighten her out.

“Moron” being the operative word.

Maybe oxymoron was the wrong word.

Omni-moronic?

coffee anyone?

would it be OK if I had orange juice
( *ducks* :)

Good morning everyone. Has the media or the neocons explained why Americans are NOT bitter and why the last eight years have made for a happy nation? I’m still waiting for this.

Too bad Katrina V. isn’t on this morning’s Roundtable on George Stephy. I always enjoy watching her make smoke roll out from under George Will’s hairpiece …

Yet the Bitter Voters for Obama link from twolf1 @ 12 has Jeffrey Tubin and Jack McCaffery, on CNN, very satisfyingly hammering both Clinton and McCain over their cheap, disingenous opportunism.

It’s bitter outrageous!

This is a froth MSM is whippin’ up, as if it’s all beyond their control. But all they have to do is GET REAL

and bitter bitter bitter on the Fox News All Stars.
balderbitterdash.

My breakfast orange juice was 100% Florida-grown.

I’m bitter.

Discussion today in my local paper of Bush admitting his top aides micromanaged torture and he knew they were — zero.

Fluffed stories rule.

Yeah. I’m bitter.

Better bitter than Bush-whacked!

I’m still bitter at the White House for lying our nation into an illegal occupation, getting away with it, and using it to bankrupt our country only for them to blame US for the economy doing so badly and for rescuing Wall Street instead of the very people who are the majority in this country: THE WORKER BEE ANTS!

It’s bitter outrageous!

Maybe I’m just having a dense moment, but could someone explain to me why suggesting that American voters are “bitter” at the moment is a bad thing?

and did you see that report that botox may migrate to the brain?

The nation of sheeple inject themselves with their own demise. Soylent Green next?

Do read the Jane Smiley post!

I’m bitter at the White House for spying on Americans illegally starting in February 2001 but told Americans that they HAD TO SPY ON US because of 9/11/01, even though they were spying on their political opponents in the beginning of their criminal regime.

Better bitter than Bush-whacked and Botoxed.

and did you see that report that botox may migrate to the brain?

mebbe you’ve just solved the riddle about what’s the matter with MSM ! lol

it isn’t the bitter part of it. Presumably it’s the part where they are “clinging” to guns and god because they are so bitter. “They” being the backwoodsy, rural know nothings. Hillary is trying to paint BO as an elitist. Feh. They all are. So what.

I wish this whole election nightmare was over and we could get on with fixing the country.

The nation of sheeple inject themselves with their own demise. Soylent Green next?

Contaminated food. Yuck!

I’m still bitter at the PNAC. I’m also bitter at how the White House allowed al-Zarqawi to cross over the border into Iraq before the bombings started to “show” Americans that al-Qaida was in Iraq so as to justify an attack on this sovereign nation who did not attack us on 9/11.

Meanwhile, to shore up her latest shape-shifting stance, Hillary is pictured sucking up bourbon and brewskis while regaling them/us with stories of her gun-toting days. Jane Smiley calls her a craven shill. I flinched but I can’t disagree.

I’m still bitter that the US Supreme Court in 2000 did not count all the votes and chose the dry drunk son of a former right wing president (you know, the one who gave his New World Order speech on 9/11/90) to lead our nation which was their way of giving the finger to the American people. I’m still bitter that Karl Rove, the RNC, and Ken Blackwell stole the 2004 election in the middle of the night when Americans were sleeping.

Isn’t John McCrazy married to a beer heiress? What an elitist he is! Wow.

Precisely so.

Do read the Jane Smiley post!

Thank you – just did. That’s pretty much what I was getting at. She just said it so much better. (hate it when that happens!)

next thing you know Commando Clinton will be “sniper shootin’” some poor ol’ lawyer in the face.

hey!

keeping clinging to that OJ there, El

;-)

Breaking bitterness: http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..121/494151

Hillary is pictured sucking up bourbon and brewskis …

I bet she’s just a delight to be around when she’s hung over – heh.

So. We have Hillary as wronged wife, Senate carpet-bagger, victim of the media, teary-eyed voice finder, Rocky and now Rambo. That’s R-A-M-B-O vs. the elitist Rambeau, dontcha know? Cheers! (raises glass of orange juice for a toast — no, wait, raises glass of orange juice and eats toast — eh, whatever)

I have an idea, up top there’s a link to each show where you’ll find links to email them.
So to each show that wastes better time on this bitter bit, I’m going to write a polite -not bitter- email to explain exactly why I AM bitter. And it isn’t because one of the candidates referred to me and my neighbors as “bitter”

We’ve laid out many reasons here why we are bitter. We should let them know how we feel, and why.

Kay – one advantage of worker bees over us — if the queen is not “doing her job” – they just create a new one.

Yes. Hunter is a treasure. He manages to capture the essence of whatever poo is floating in the MSM universe. What a talent.

It Takes Real Chutzpah for a Guy Who Owns Eight Houses (McCain) to Call Barack Obama an “Elitist”

So, I wonder if Hillary will make gay marriage, right to life, and the Second Amendment the keystones of her Pennsylvania campaign. At some point, she’s going to have to find ways to differentiate herself from McCane.

I mean, McCain.

FDL truth teams who can force themselves to watch any of the gasbags:

1. How much time spent on bitter?
2. How much time spent on Bush admitting micromanagement of torture?

Great idea. And build on the third definition of bitter (above):

3: expressive of severe pain, grief, or regret

Exactly. The worker bees will swarm and rip her legs off. LOL!

it isn’t the bitter part of it. Presumably it’s the part where they are “clinging” to guns and god because they are so bitter. “They” being the backwoodsy, rural know nothings. Hillary is trying to paint BO as an elitist. Feh. They all are. So what.

I wish this whole election nightmare was over and we could get on with fixing the country.

Amen. Amen.

We’ve got a lot to do to redeem, rebuild, restore, and reinvigorate our country. And as irritated as I get with the horse race, I now believe we’ll win easily in November.

It was great to see the sun yesterday with a high of 42 deg in northern MN after two snowstorms in a week dumped about 35 inches on us. Spring has been put on hold for now.

It is disappointing that the Sunday news programs have ignored the torture story. In particular, you would have thought ‘This Week’ would have addressed it, given ABC broke the story.

Frank Rich coupled with the Moyers’ speech lay the predicate for why it’ll be all bitter all the time this morning….

Been watching you from the Twin Cities, ironranger. You’ve really had a rough “spring.” Are ya bitter? (Okay, I’ll stop now.)

Good Morning Elliot.

O.j. it is. Sounds like the only thing I could stand if I plan to watch Pressed Meat. Ooogh. You jolted me awake in a hurry with that listing, you scamp, heh. ewwwwww

Hey. Does anyone know any more than Reuters’ report about the mosque bo*bing in Iran? Makes me sick. In my mornin’ fog, i half expect to find blaakwahtr having made an attempt to provoke a reaction, to give shooter an excuse to go in there with the big boomers. Yeah. I’m that deranged and disgusted.
It’s tinfoil time here. *shudder*

P E A C E

It Takes Real Chutzpah for a Guy Who Owns Eight Houses (McCain) to Call Barack Obama an “Elitist”

Last wee Fox News Sunday (for one) went on and on about how unnaturally wealthy the Clintons were from book sales and speaking fees, yet today Wallace celebrates a hundred gillion dollar contract a hockey player signed. No perspective, none.

Wow! *scooping up some sun and throwing it your way* ;-)

Matalin, Carville, Shrum and Murphy. Meet the Press is caught in a groundhog day loop. How many times can they jump the shark?

Hi, does anyone know where I can find McCain policy on the Bush Tax Cuts from 2002? You know when he was against them and now he’s for them?

I had the same thought that Blackwater must be somewhere in the vicinity to break open the bee’s nest to keep the Bush Regime happy in their quest to bomb Iran and to have one more conflict under their belts for the next president to handle.

It is disappointing that the Sunday news programs have ignored the torture story. In particular, you would have thought ‘This Week’ would have addressed it, given ABC broke the story.

eXcellent point.

We need to face this shame, not hide it.

Nah…what worker bees do is make the new queen and when she emerges, she fights the old queen. The new queen usually wins.

May I just say that the whole talking head thing is just over. There is no possibility that any of those jerks would say anything worth hearing. I admit it. I don’t listen anymore.

Can’t force myself to watch them. This is one of my few sundays off and I don’t need to ruin it that way. Going to the Cubs Phillies game later on. That may ruin it but who knows. Better that than the talking heads. At least there will be weenies (though not of the cocktail persuasion).

Good morning pups, and congratulations FDL on 54,000,000 site visits!

—–Geeks R Us

They got their marching orders from the bosses. No surprise here.

Investigate. Interrogate. Indict. http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..951/494330

Morning, Egreg — well, I certainly have been trying to do MY part…

Have fun! Go Phils!

Go, Cubbies!

Reliable reliably talkin’ not-torture, not not-media coverage.
Will Katie become new Larry King? Will Queen of Today dethrone The King now that she’s been officially outed/trashed by someone in the inner room back in February? Inquiring minds must be forcefed the banal along with their botox.

Speaking of the torture issue….

Glenn Beck was outraged all last week about the 8 girls who beat up a girl so they could put their “fine work” on YouTube. What was so interesting to me is Beck would find this kind of torture of a fellow human being so offensive when it’s been his government who has done 10 TIMES AS WORSE to human beings over the past five years!

*shaking head*

Torture has not been defined and that is why our government has gotten away with doing it (plus they broke all the treaties and laws). If a right winger can be so disgusted with girls beating a girl unconscious but doesn’t flinch when watching the beheading videos of Americans in Iraq, what does this say about us? Could it make us bitter at these neocon fascists who don’t see their own irony and who continue to support a Regime who tortures, rapes, and kills?

It’s very strange to me the psychology of the right wingers of our country.

The picture on Huffpost says it for me. I dont want my President drinking with the boys.

That may ruin it

Hey RevDeb. I got an idee. Don’t just root for one team agnst another. Cheer for every terrific play. Inwardly, of course. Wouldn’t want any beercan dents in yer noggin. Ya might have ta sue the beermaker.

Well, let’s hope the New Queen will bail out the worker bees and not the other Queen down the street who lives on Wall Street. ;-)

May I just say that the whole talking head thing is just over. There is no possibility that any of those jerks would say anything worth hearing. I admit it. I don’t listen anymore.

I’d been feeling that way, too, but we ARE their audience — a whole lot of people like us — and I think we CAN nudge push them to be relevant again.

Salut to the Ladies of the Lake!

This wee back bencher looks in awe….

With eight houses to tend, how’s McSame gonna keep up with all the brush-cutting?

After the embittering Sunday morning shows, I’m starting to fear we could end up in November with a choice between a male or a female McCain.

Even for northern MN folks, that much snow in one period in almost mid April was over the top. Some people living along county roads didn’t get plowed out until the thursday after the weekend first dumping. Then it snowed again on Friday. One person told me the story of waking up sunday am (the 6th) to see all 3 doors to the outside drifted & unopenable. Their dog was in dire need of a nature call so she climbed out a window with the dog right behind her. Their dog couldn’t wait any longer & let loose with half the pee landing on her boots.

I’d like to point out that only an elitist would not understand the players in Iraq or what has been happening over there for the past five years, because he’s been too busy kissing the ass of the other elitists who currently live in the White House? John McCrazy is this elitist. He’s too damned important in his own mind to worry about the “little shit”. See? What an elitist he is! Ouch.

I bet she’s just a delight to be around when she’s hung over – heh.

FWIW, is there anyone who is a delight to be around when hung over? I know I sure as hell wasn’t when I drank.

I think we CAN nudge push them to be relevant again.

I’ll keep trying, but I’m afraid I don’t share your optimism. I’ve contacted quite a few, on numerous occasions, politely and succinctly. Never heard anything back from them. And it’s a sure thing they haven’t improved. They’re worse than ever.

But…. all together now …. if we don’t try, we have NO chance to get something done. i know. i know.

Devilstower over at Kos has a spot-on commentary this morning on the media:

Keen’s contention that the fault of the failing media lies with the amateurs is attractive to those claiming a paycheck to distribute information. It’s a theory that’s certainly given him plenty of air time and lots of approving nods. But the truth is, the “Web 2.0 movement” that he wants to blame is a bystander in this fight.

The media is working very, very hard to make sure that you don’t trust the media.

speaking of houses Adie, are your bluebirds back?

for me it’s these two words:
Supreme Court.

want to share this song—

our local radio owner does the ’viewpoint’ call-in show on the weekends…….today’s was intense.

i got in a few points, yoo, that mccain voted for torture, importance of voting dem for judges, wht the supremes have become, responded to truth about coal to liquid caused levels of pollution would be, etc……

he recently rediscovered this song…..today he opened with it, then played it THREE times at the end of the show. 3 times.

johnny cash ’what is truth’

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qO5z2xUNUpU

i wasn’t able to listen to it, dial-up, but it looks like a good version, is from his old tv show.

if it’s not, my apologies, and can someone find a good one? is worth hearing over and over.

he followed with don williams

i believe in love, and lord i hope this day is good.

was an intense hour.

I understand and have always felt that way. It’s getting very hard. You may need to keep reminding me.

oh my! who says you can’t paint vivid images with words! hee hee.

how’d they get back in? Did they remember to unlock the door and take a shovel out with ‘em?

what a good good doggie.

Well, Obama is correct. When an American feels like they’re losing, they turn to guns and alcohol. Right, Hillary? Let me guess…to complete her neocon image she’ll announce this week that she’s always secretly been an Evangelical and believes that Armageddon needs to be started by man/woman to get Jesus to return? Wouldn’t surprise me.

e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism Audio Help (ĭ-lē’tĭz’əm, ā-lē’-) Pronunciation Key
n.
The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.

The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.

Perceived superiority seems to be the operative here.
Morning all.

Apparently the secret evangelical thingie is not far from the mark. Just read something somewhere (good enough for an MSM source, right?) that she has been part of a pretty fundy fellowship for many years. I need to dig that out unless someone here can tell me what I’m talking about. Bwahahahaha!

Bluebirds! You bet! Thanks for asking. At this point, they’re pretty much part of our family.

As far as we can tell, they never leave in the winter (northeastern OH!?!). They just wander and check back periodically, chortling at us from the hedgerow near their, and our house.

They’re not only back, but obviously have big plans. Been singing and building furiously already in that same old nest box they always use.

Adie@132:
My friend could see the snow shovel in the entry. However, it was outside. Who would imagine you would have to bring your snow shovel inside?! She grabbed the small fireplace shovel & used that. Then it was a matter of shoveling herself back inside.
Now we are hearing rumbles & thuds as big wads of snow melt enough to slide off roofs. Startled me the first time that happened. I don’t plan to walk anywhere near any eaves for awhile.
We did get some awesome photos of all this.

Here is the article that NO ONE will talk about….
Hillary’s Prayer

i believe in love, and lord i hope this day is good.
Me too!
(personal note: I read a comment that you’re a Methodist? Is that right?)

Pix. Oh goody! Hope you’ll share. Mebbe you can tell from my question before, that’s never happened to us, heh.

Hillary Clinton is increasingly achieving her goal and convincing me that she is truly common. I am not sure she won’t intentionally pick her nose during the next debate.

There is another very bitter blow that that Fred Kaplan has discussed. Kommander Guy’s latest speech on Iraq is both bitter and horrible and total macaca. Short version is that the Occupation/Genocide will continue with no end in sight. That is bitter.

“As Gen. Petraeus told Congress, American and Iraqi forces have made significant progress in all these areas.” Mission might be accomplished (in a hundred years). “Many neighborhoods once controlled by al-Qaida have been liberated…Fifteen months ago, America and the Iraqi government were on the defensive…Today, we have put al-Qaida on the defensive in Iraq”. We were never told that Al Qaeda had been controlling many neighborhoods, and that we were on the defensive! I am shocked and bitter to hear this. “Our work in Iraq will still demand sacrifices from our whole nation, especially our military, for some time to come.” Bitter, bitter, bitter. “There’s no doubt that the costs of this war have been high. But during other major conflicts in our history, the relative cost has been even higher…This is still a large amount of money. But it is modest — a modest fraction of our nation’s wealth. And it pales when compared with the cost of another terrorist attack on our people.” This Genocide is a bargain at twice the price. It is also “a brilliant achievement in American history”. Otherwise we would have the same bitter results after “retreats in Somalia and Vietnam”.

our local radio owner does the ’viewpoint’ call-in show on the weekends…….today’s was intense.

i got in a few points, yoo, that mccain voted for torture, importance of voting dem for judges, wht the supremes have become, responded to truth about coal to liquid caused levels of pollution would be, etc……

go dmac! Any callers respond to you?

and thanks for the Johnny Cash.

I wonder if radiofreewill will boombox by this morning

re: Americans turning to, well, guns at least…

“Woke up this Morning”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIZONxihMdg

Irrelevant side-note: Had a second-hand conversation once (through a mutual friend) with Rock Freebase of Alabama 3 about how cool the first name “Rock” would be if I ever have another child (would probably work better with a male child, I’m thinking….

The Rasmussen national tracking poll indicates this is hurting Obama. Five days ago he led Clinton 51%/ 40%. Today’s numbers are Obama 45%/ Clinton 46%.
It will be interesting to see where the Pa. numbers are by midweek.

Obama’s point about people feeling bitter is that politicians come in promising relief from the destruction of local economies, and don’t deliver. Both parties do that. Nothing changes, and the financial elites just get richer. Bitterness is a natural response. Turning to your community for help is a natural response. The problem is that the people who cause the problem, the right-wing rich, are the very people who are focusing the bitterness on god, gays and guns.

Obama is reaching out to these people, recognizing the source of their anger and disgust, which is good, but I doubt he can help their economic situation either. It will take a lot of serious taxation and re-regulation to restore our rickety economic structure.

we played kick-the-can when I was kid. I don’t care for Bush’s version

I’ve got this Sunday off as well (actually, all Sundays from now on, but that’s Another Story.)
So, should I watch the re-run from Tuesday of the Iraq Report or MTP?
Or, catch up on housework?
So many appealing activities. Not.

just so long as your last name’s not Balboa … or Hudson.

It wouldn’t surprise me, Barbara! I did read something to that effect about her (that her pastor isn’t too far removed from Rev. Wright) and her religion. To pander to the Fundies though, she has to be a whiskey-slinging, gun-toting, Fundamentalist who walks around with a bible on her face. See? She’s working hard at this image and only an elitist would take the time to make sure every point and detail was carefully thought out to fake out the masses. Pointing fingers at Barack by saying he is the elitist is a neocon technique in diverting the awful truth away from herself! She’s good. Very good. LOL

“As Gen. Petraeus told Congress, American and Iraqi forces have made significant progress in all these areas.”

What if we found out “in all these areas” was just two or three blocks inside the Green Zone? Oh boy.

Another media feeding frenzy, I never saw that one coming. Thank goodness we don’t have an economy tanking, a President who tortures, threats of war with Iran, and endless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Otherwise some cynics would call this a deliberate distraction.

I am bitter about so many americans who still, to this day, are keeping themselves so uninformed. They could find out for themselves despite our broken media if they really wanted to.
I think Obama was just voicing some realities in this country. The folks who feel it was negative or somehow insulting just don’t want to hear it because that would require some introspection & dealing with stuff. Too much work. Much easier to not bother their pretty little heads about things that make them uncomfortable.

Actually, wouldn’t they All naturally have to feel they are superior in order to Run in the first place? You wouldn’t run if you thought the other guy was better. I wonder.

just so long as your last name’s not Balboa … or Hudson.

LOL. Nope, I have a fine Scottish last name, which unfortunately gets snickered at… Hey, Boy named Sue and all.

It can be found within the last names of the members of the band Wilco – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilco

ceci,
You said it better than I ever could. I supported the Clinton’s through thick and thin, voted for Bill twice.
Now, I wouldn’t walk across the street to shake either of their hands or greet them. After what Hil/Bill are doing to mess up this election I just cannot stomach them anymore.
My hope is the lofty perch that Bill once occupied falls into splinters of wood and Hillary’s position in the Senate is that of someone who is tolerated but not respected as she once was.
Yes, I am bitter!

Otherwise some cynics would call this a deliberate distraction.

Cynics? You see any cynics around here?

Never mind.

I suppose, but I also think some run because they find the others dangerous to our country and want to change the course we’re on. Maybe I’m a bitter elitist to think this way? Hey, could be! LOL

demi, there’s nothing like clean windows lol!!

and jayt if I read you right, I hope you forgive my giggle.

Seems to me that Bill Clinton has become the embarrassing drunken uncle who ya gotta invite to parties and family get-togethers, and just hope against hope that he doesn’t do or say anything really stupid……

Bitter….
lets see in a few short years I went from having a health insurance plan that paid for everything to having to fork over at least $4500 for it to pay 100%

My youngest son is paying twice the tuition at the same state college than his 3 yr older sister …. My daughter is still working at her college employer (did move up into management) because the job market is so tight…

My oldest son was laid off from one of the largest home builder in Seattle… leaving a family without insurance…

My parents have Medicare and the FEBA (federal employees) supplement with premiums that have nearly doubled in the last few years …

Why would any of us be better?

elliot at 143–oh yeah, lots, we all go back and forth, wide variety of people around here.

that’s why i called in originally, to correct info, then added my stuff.

it’s a great show. all kinds of locals and imports. from bushies to ron pauls to obamas to clintons. to no votes.

the owner’s daughter does the show during the week.

she invited me to be a part of a small group to submit 4 or 5 concerns/ideas about issues pertaining to s/e ohio to the governor. written out and documented.

she’s setting the meeting up right now.

we’ll see…….

p.s. a while back, one guy called in to respond to second my suggestion that people read firedoglake, and said his wife used to be apolitical, now she’s in it and all over it…why? firedoglake. he encouraged others to do the same.

yep….don’t know who she is though.

===

demi at 139

yes, but lean more towards buddhism. and physics–energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed.

That pretty well says it for me also. I even donated to her campaign after Iowa, because I didn’t want her to have to drop out because of money, rather than ideas and qualifications. At the time, I trusted that she would place the country and the party above her own ambitions.

Adie@140:
I’m embarrassed to admit that I have not yet learned to share photos, etc. I just learned how to load pix from the camera to the computer. Now I need more memory & some other things. The one closest kid (4 hrs away) who has upgraded for us in the past is very not helpful. It’s like pulling teeth to get him to get him to answer questions. Little jerk, after carrying him for 9 months & delivering him. I am planning to hire a friend who is a whiz to tutor me. Paying her will be a lot easier & a lot less stress.

See?

From “A Boy named Sue”

I tell ya, life ain’t easy for a boy named “Sue.”

Well, I grew up quick and I grew up mean,
My fist got hard and my wits got keen…

And he said: “Son, this world is rough
And if a man’s gonna make it, he’s gotta be tough
And I knew I wouldn’t be there to help ya along.
So I give ya that name and I said goodbye
I knew you’d have to get tough or die
And it’s the name that helped to make you strong.”

Maybe I’m a bitter elitist to think this way?
Ha! You’re probably a tool of the Dalai Lama too.
Taken a shower lately? IF I take Elliot’s suggestion and wash the windows (the better to see more clearly) I’ll shoot some hose water in your direction. *g*

but… some of those so-called elitists… aren’t so much, y’know.

sometimes they’re among the hardest working, lowest paid in the community. ask a young classical musician, dressed in a tux, sitting in the middle of an orchestra playing a solo that makes your heart melt.

i know several working at Starbux on the side just so they can have minimal health insurance…

yeah. they’re Liberal. and they’re bitter. and they vote.

i don’t personally know the one in this video, but we hatched one who can play as well. elitist? BAH! Have a listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRb8KKyenSY

. and physics–energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed.
Ah! Interesting. I had a conversation with my 14 year old son this week about death, and that is exactly what I told him. Almost word for word. See what a good little Methodist I am? Ha ha.

Good Morning Elliot and Firedogs -

drivin’ by – trying to find info about the mosque attack in Southern Iran (friday ?) nuthin in the usual places (gorilla guides, missing links, group news blog, etc) – anyone ?

Must Be Sunday

she invited me to be a part of a small group to submit 4 or 5 concerns/ideas about issues pertaining to s/e ohio to the governor. written out and documented.

she’s setting the meeting up right now.

we’ll see…….

very intriguing! Keep us informed, would love to hear how it develops. Is it streamed over the Internet by any chance?

and katymine, can you post your radio billboard pic again? I lurrved that one :)

I have decided to stop being elitist. Now where are my 8 McMansions?

French Vanilla buckwheat pancakes with Lyle’s Golden syrup for breakfast at casa Prop

Bless yer heart. You sound like us. Only we’re very fortunate. One of our sons who’s a computer whiz (and a sweetie!) lives close and visits almost weekly to straighten out our toobentanglements in return for a good hot meal and laundry facilities, a romp with the kitties, and a good visit.

be good to yer kids, folks, and you may turn out to be as “lucky” as we are.

I’m bitter at:

The “grave diggers of democracy”
Seeing our Constitution going up in flames daily
The flood of Presidential signing statements
Bushie condoning and attempting to dress up TORTURE
Our lazy in-bed-with-politicos media
Our corporate-greed culture where 61% of corporations pay no income tax
The criminal war that we will be stuck in for 100 years
The politicization of the DOJ and the gutting of our justice system
Our government’s horrendous and criminal non-response to Hurricane Katrina
All of the lies and crimes that go unpunished
And that Impeachment is not on the Table!

Good Morning Firepups! What a beautiful morning in the midwest.

I am in EPU land here but…
Your key words “I trusted that she would place the country and the party above her own ambitions…”
Speaking for myself, but I think a lot of us are seeing the Clintons for what they are, and it is not for the good of the Democratic party.

At your request…. Phoenix AZ billboard on McSame….
KPHX Billboard

Make ‘em yourself, LHP? Or, a branded mix? We use New Hope Mills here at our house.

I’m horridly stinky today, so what does that tell ya? LOL! What an elitist I am. I’m too good even for a shower for crying out loud! ;-)

I can be there in a few…..

I searched long and hard to find the theme from The Mission. I finally found it and downloaded it a while back. If you happen to know where there’s a recorded version of the theme from the movie Badlands, please don’t hesitate to relate it to a political point and link it. :]

OMG that sounds good! I better put a lock on the refrig. & tell my honey to hide the key.

Hi Prop. Daffodils are blooming here.
*hands big yellow beauty through toobz*

good morning cbl

Here’s CNN’s story on it.

It is “spitting” snowflakes here in South Bend this morning. LHP, will the pancakes keep long enough for jayt and me to get there from Indiana?? *g*

my heavens – Indiana has become relevant in a presidential race – not sure how to act – this has never happened before. Check out this map of campaign stops planned by the candidates and various other Clintons…

http://www.indystar.com/apps/p…../80410059/

While it may be unseemly, and while ’tis true that Obama spoke the truth, this is an example of why (I believe) Clinton can beat McCain in the general and Obama cannot. You think Clinton doesn’t agree with Obama about this? Think again. Of course she does.

And it’s precisely her knowledge of the electorate (the same electorate that got the worst president and admin. in US history in there TWICE) that she knows she has to appeal to these ridiculous sentiments in order to win.

For years Democrats have been complaining that their candidates are not taking on Republicans at their own game. She IS. Obama is appealing to idealism, which is nice, but it’s a losing bet.

You want to win, or do you want to feel good?

can you whistle a few bars for me? (i’m embarrassed to admit i’m too “elitist” to know pop and film music very well at all.)

seriously. i’ll try.

French Vanilla buckwheat pancakes with Lyle’s Golden syrup for breakfast at casa Prop

yummmMmm!

Hugh, do you get fries with those? Freedom Fries?

cbl and adie, thanks for the beautiful music.

Adie@173:
This kid is pretty great most of the time except for computer help. His girlfriend is more helpful than he is. He is the youngest & sometimes, it really shows.

I’m bitter at:

The “grave diggers of democracy”
Seeing our Constitution going up in flames daily
The flood of Presidential signing statements
Bushie condoning and attempting to dress up TORTURE
Our lazy in-bed-with-politicos media
Our corporate-greed culture where 61% of corporations pay no income tax
The criminal war that we will be stuck in for 100 years
The politicization of the DOJ and the gutting of our justice system
Our government’s horrendous and criminal non-response to Hurricane Katrina
All of the lies and crimes that go unpunished
And that Impeachment is not on the Table!

I think I may be quoting you in some emails this morning!

I want to feel good about a win.

I’m a bitter elitist.
My dishwasher kicked the bucket.
We’re using paper (not styrofoam) plates.
Buttermilk pancakes with strawberry jam.

Hey Crosstimbers. You still here?

Will this do? I’m to bitter to bother with link to politics. I’m into antidotes, and this is nifty stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tEgzGnzojc

So I’m casting my lot in with the big eared skinny guy with the funny name. But that should come as no surprise as I have an advanced degree, have been known to drink a latte or two and test drove a Prius.

elliot–no, they barely have a website. small operation.

demi-i mention methodist because that is my background, but haven’t been to church in 5 years this june.

(they’re still trying to get me back in the door, but i’m not going)

the practice of buddhism is the one that resonates the most. ’verdict still out’ on it.

the physics law kinda covers it. blew my brain when it occurred to me one day. works for me. on an atomic level and an interpersonal level. applies to all things on earth and in space. covers if there is a god and if there isn’t, so all-inclusive to everyone, in my mind. : )

strawberry jam instead of good ole maple syrup? you are an elitist. let me guess, orange juice on the menu too?

It takes lotsa patience, sweet parent. I was slow to mature, so was the “kid” to which I refer. But he made it. Now we’re best friends ;->

dogemperor over at the big orange K [Kos] writes on this. There have been several in the last month on Clinton’s affiliates.You’ll probably have to use the search tool; look for ‘diaries by’ dogemperor.

I have to agree a bit with you on this point about wanting to beat the Repugs and our sleeping electorate. Although right now I am an Obama supporter. (formerly Edwards)

Elliot quote me any time — I thank God that we are still bitter because once we become numb, they will have full control. I’m ready for a revolution…and thank you for hosting the Book Salon yeseterday — throughly enjoyed it.

Pankcakes I always make from scratch. These had organic buckwheat flour, some french vanilla yogurt course sea salt, eggs, milk, almond oil and a little baking soda. For whole grain flour, they are remarkably tender and moist

I searched long and hard to find the theme from The Mission

Is this the theme music you were talking about? It’s beautiful.

Yeppers, freshly squeezed. Market had a big ass bag of navels for two bucks yesterday.
How was the evening swim?
The common pool here at my manufactured housing community is closed due to resurfacing, so, I’ll just be sweating here today.
I could always get out that hose. ha.

I bow to your superior kitchen — we use New Hope because the old mill is near where I grew up. Until very recently, they ground it all there; now, they have a place in Auburn, NY. A couple of farmers near Ithaca are supposedly starting up an organic flour and feed mill there; I’m looking forward to that.

By all means .. I can make a bigger batch. And we have two, count ‘em two , littres of Lab puppies for you to play with after breakfast.

just for kicks, suggest you check out Secular Humanism.

http://www.thehumanist.org

Temptation, thy name is LHP!!

Thanks, Adie. That’s great. They must have put it on there since I last checked.

ooo I wasn’t the host, just the one with the biggest mouth. ;)

Lawn Guyland has a couple of days in the high 60’s-mid 70’s. It has been so pretty here and since the insects aren’t out yet, we have every window and door thrown open regardless of whether or not there are screens on them. It feels like the outdoors have come in. We’re lucky we didn’t wake up to raccoons or squirrels in the kitchen. *g*

I live in a little cul de sac that juts into a nature preserve, so we have lots of wildlife here, leaving the doors open is always an adventure. But once the bugs wake up, you can’t leave anything open, so we get a little giddy on days like this.

All our the winter aconite is in bloom along the roadways, vast carpets of gold. The Daffodils are up and I have wood hyacinths under the trees on the front lawn that have naturalized and are just gorgeous. The bunnies ate my crocuses, but the snowdrops hung in there much longer than usual.

The tulips ought to bloom sometime next week.

A Hillary or McCain win does not make me feel good. It makes me think Americans want more of the same and have been happy (and not bitter!) about the last eight years of the Bush White House.

LOL Elliot :) Sorry Jeff for the mistake…I haven’t had enough coffee yet.

That swim was right on time. We had NO breeze yesterday, so it made it up to the low 90’s here. Had some relief (temp wise) late last night and today promises to be a bit cooler. You poor thing, well I would go running through the sprinklers but I’d feel guilty about wasting water

You guys have mr’s mouth watering for hotcakes now. *sigh* He just went to the store to get the ingredients so that he can make some blueberry/lemon pancakes (very elitist but all europeans are *g*)

Here’s the short version of why I’m here and not at church today.
Some of you already know this, but, as a Lay Speaker at my (used to be) church, I have led service once a month for a coupla years. Last Sunday I did something spiritual and unconventional and this week got an email chatising me. And, it wasn’t nice. So I told them I’m not coming back. So, there.

May I bore you with some of my thinking on this? I went from Richardson to Edwards to Clinton (regardless of her fits and starts, I really think she’d be a very good president).

I do not believe Obama can win the general. The reason: He will be successfully painted as extremely liberal (and it’s his idealism, the very campaign he’s running, not his record, that will do that). So what? The problem is, Americans are conservative not in ideology but when it comes to making change. They are very much “better the devil I know than the devil I don’t” thinkers. So, when they get into that voting booth, Obama is going to feel like a huge risk, a huge unknown, so they’ll vote for McCain. However, since Americans are disgusted with the devil they know, Republicans, Hillary Clinton – being percieved as more centrist and more conservative – offers them a psychological and safe-feeling compromise, so it’ll be easier for them to reject McCain and go for the Democrat.

I’m not blind to the risks a Clinton nomination poses. I do believe being female is a much bigger hurdle than being black. But Clinton has proven very resilient to pretty brutal stuff. She’ll survive the GOP. Obama’s campaign, in my opinion, has been one of smoke and mirrors, and that stuff doesn’t last.

I can always make more

Uh oh, Demi. What did you say? LOL! Whatever it was I’m sure you were showing your “elitist bitter side” by pointing out the truth which hurts those who are brainwashed into believing everything is fine.

I feel the same way about Hillary and McCain. I’m an Obama supporter, but I must admit that I’m concerned how he will hold up against all of the the nasy swift-boaters during the general election. I don’t in any way think Obama is a lightweight, however some of our electorate are so easily frightened and spoofed by the swiftboaters.

Hi Prop.

You are the adventurous one. I dare you to leave those scrumptious pancakes out for 5 minutes some eve. You’ll find out in a hurry how many raccoons you’ve got in the neighborhood. We raised 4 orphaned ones (not all at the same time, thank heaven!?!), and pancakes were their fave!

cbl2 at 169
iran bombing, doesn’t say much detail.
think it was from the firedog news page….

http://uk.reuters.com/article/…..2420080412

ctuttle posted this last night, but it didn’t have alink, and i haven’t been able to verify-so i don’t know where he got it-so, don’t know if group was ’targeted’ or just there.
”You left out Baha’is which have a large contingent in Israel, in fact Haifa houses most of the central institutions… The bomb blast in Shiraz, Iran today targeted a Baha’i gathering there…!”

Fight back instead.

sounds divine lhp.

It is such a treat to throw open the windows — and the back door, my scaredy cats love that because the dog will protect them while the sun shines, elsewise the prefer they cover of darkness.

You are lucky to have that resource. I really like varying the flour I use in baking. It is amazing how much change in taste and texture you get.

The same recipe takes on a whole new character, plus Rye, oat and buckwheat flour are all wholegrain, so I don’t feel so guilty about the syrup.

That’s AWFUL! I don’t blame you.

Another thought: If you have a Unitarian Universalist congregation in your area, try them. The ones near us are a wonderful, warm, inviting group quite accepting of diversity.

I can’t speak for all here but I’m sure they will share my sentiment. I appreciate you sharing why you support Hillary’s candidacy and why you think she can win the general election. I disagree with your characterization of Obama’s campaign as ’smoke and mirrors’ but we don’t all have to agree on everything *g*

Clinton would not be more of the same. That is a fallacy. I’m not sure how people can claim that a woman with a voting record almost identical to Sen. Obama’s would either be more of Bush while saying he would not be.

two words:
Supreme Court

I also think Hillary is one tough opponent. But my biggest reservations on her are 1) she voted for the War, 2) she is too much like Bushie and cozy iwth the corporate lobbyists, and 3) she has an awful lot of people that just don’t like her. I am female and would love to elect the first female presdient however — Hillary although better than Bush does not quite meet my expectations. byut I’ll vote for her obver crazy McCain.

I’ve read and heard about a few church fights in my lifetime, although never saw one in action.

Not sure you want to go there demi. Talk about ugh-ly!?!

Really? How’s her record compared to John McCrazy? I bet you’d see quite a few similarities there too.

Who had the forthright to question what the White House was saying back in 2001/2002? It wasn’t Hillary or Johnny.

When George Bush was selected to the presidency in 2000, what is the first thing he did? He sealed the records of his father and Bill Clinton. What will Hillary do if she gets in? I know the answer but do you? If you’re comfortable with these two families running our nation for the rest of eternity to make sure their records are sealed from public viewing to protect themselves, then so be it. You can. Personally, I’m sick of both families and could care less if I ever see their names again…well….unless it was on an indictment.

two words:
Supreme Court

YES!

welcome to my world. Only I have to go back. They pay me to do so.

actually I haven’t gotten too many of those kinds of e-mails here. It’s a great bunch of people and they seem to be glad I’m here. I know I am.

They are ugly. I’m a minister’s daughter (Episcopal). Church people are often rigid in their thinking, which is not a good thing.

But change only happens when you stick it out and work to change attitudes, which is never easy and never achieved without a few bruises, no matter the culture.

UCC is another great church right now. Liberal wing of the Episcopal church is too, but the conservative side – blech.

Considering Hillary is pandering to the neocon crowd with her whiskey swilling and gun stories, I would be afraid to have her making choices for the Court right now.

Church fights are as ugly as they get. I’ve had to go into a couple of churches as interim minister and do mop up and try to get them back on track to at least trying to respect one another if loving is too hard for them to do. It ain’t easy.

I have not supported her candidacy for much of the same reasons but also add her position on free trade agreemments (she says one thing but her actions convey the opposite), her campaign tactics (praising a repug and tearing down a fellow dem), the alienation of groups of folks (remember…caucuses don’t count, tradionally red states don’t count, etc)

You are much braver than me. I’m afraid of raccoons. We have so many here that you really don’t want to walk around the neighborhood after dark. Some nights I have to do this mad dash from the driveway to the front door with a herd of them waddling after me.

When it comes to the presidency, I want change (yeah, I said it). Not the same policies (no McSame) and not the same folks (sorry, but at the tender age of 26, I have only EVER known the names Bush, Clinton)

We’re Obama supporters in this household, all of us.
(Started out with Edwards, just like someone upthread)

I would vote Hillary over McSame. PERIOD. Not as my first-choice candidate. I think we agree.

and Lhp, buckwheat pancakes are my favorite….by far…

a few years ago, when in wva, got some family milled buckwheat in a bag…….wow…

i have raccoons, have to put hot pepper flakes in the bird seed to keep them out of it……

last batch of seed i didn’t add pepper flakes, they trashed the place. my feeders are on my deck, looks out over a ravine…they climb the redbud, the shagbark hickory which are right next to the deck and the posts….

usually my dog barks.

the deck wraps around to the front-house is one story on one side, two stories on the other……one night, a baby possum ran by me on the deck, thought it was a rat! chased it off.

squirrels sit in the tree limbs above the deck and torment my dog, callie the collie…..they drop hickory hulls on her head as they chew them. seriously. it’s funny.

they sit on the rail and torment her, then stretch out on their tummies in a sunspot and take a nap, right on the deck and in the trees next to the house….strangest thing.

The powers that be chose to Postpone communion, but I had already worked up a lesson about Table Fellowship, so we shared the grape and grain anyway.
I had said, You can’t postpone communion. That’s like postponing Love.
I’m going to check out the All Saints Episcople church in Pasadena. They’re know for being progressive.
I will miss all of the music my husband and I did at the Methodist church, tho.
Sometimes, ya just gotta stand up for what you believe.

Such hostility! I thought Obama was about changing that.

What indictment would you like to see the Clintons’ name on again?

When Bush sealed those records, in order to justify sealing his father’s, he had no choice but to also seal the Clintons’. I recall Bill Clinton saying it was fine for his to be released and that he was opposed to Bush changing the rules on that.

As for the vote, I think that, to give Obama credit for having the sense to be against it overcredits him while condemning Clinton for her vote is also misguided. They are apples and oranges.

On the one hand, Obama’s supporters like to say that Obama showed great courage in speaking out back then(in fact, what he said was not public, it was not “speaking out”, it was not a risk on his part, etc. That has been WAY overblown). So it took Obama incredible courage, when he didn’t have to actually make the vote and was not subjected to the threats and intimidation and coercion that Congress was, but it still was courageous of him, but when discussing Clinton’s vote, suddenly the factors that require Obama to have great courage, but to which he was not actually subject but she was, are irrelevant.

Did she stand up to the White House? Yes, I believe she did. She made clear, and SAID, she was not voting for war and that she wanted inspectors back in. She may have in fact stalled the war by doing so, trying to buy time and more evidence of no need to invade.

I recall very well my own horror at the coercion by Republicans and the public that was being placed on Congresspeople to vote in favor of that authorization. 70+% of the public was in favor of it. Hillary Clinton has been treated with more contempt and held to higher standards of explanation than has Bush! This makes no sense to me. Democrats always turn on their own.

I happen to strongly believe that, had Obama been in the Senate at that time AND considering a serious run for the presidency, he too would have voted in favor of authorization. He would have had to if, AT THAT TIME in THAT ENVIRONMENT he wanted any shot at the presidency. Indeed, every single Dem candidate this year voted FOR IT, and you can bet it was their presidential aspirations that caused them to do so, except for Dennis Kucinich, but of course we know he never had a shot at the Oval Office.

Things have to be put in perspective. I’ve got her vote AND Obama’s positions in perspective. Obama has come out and stated that he is against gay marriage. You really think he is? I don’t. I think he’s running for president and knows that he HAS to take that position if he wants to win.

Seh had to make that vote. He did not.

Hillary was never my first choice candidate and even now I can’t bring myself to vote for her in the General if she gets there. I may end up voting for Obama because I’m so sick and tired of the elitists behind the scenes choosing our candidates for us (that’s how I would view it if she gets on…I would blame the media too for going after the word “bitter” to help her out).

I never detested Hillary in all the years she’s been on my tv, but the last few months have changed that for me.

A republican will never get my vote. Now that we can agree on! LOL

She’s PANDERING, as you note.

Sheesh.

Oh I get it. Hostility is now defined as anyone NOT supporting Hillary Clinton.

Voting for the “Use of Force Authorization” was a vote for war. Anyone who trusted George Bush & Dick Cheney to use war as a last resort when all these two were talking about from January 2001-September 2001 was Saddam Hussein and not Osama bin Laden….IS A COMPLETE DUMBASS! And I don’t care if the dumbass is the wife of a former president who is making millions a year from speaking engagements, because it doesn’t make them smarter than the rest of us.

You can support Hillary to the death. I will not.

George Bush & Dick Cheney pandered to the same people, Juno. Why would you support Hillary in doing the same thing? You want a hypocrite in office again? I don’t.

The media have gone after Clinton relentlessly.

Btw, any problem with the Adamses or the Rockefellers having two family presidencies?

What I find disturbing is the sheer hostility of so many Obama supporters for Clinton. Why not just write the GOP a big ol’ note of apology and tell them they were right all along.

Oh, the irony!

Meanwhile, as the Dems rip each other apart, McSame is campaigning for the general election and rising in many polls…

No, hostility is not defined at anyone not supporting Clinton. I would describe calling someone, in capital letters, a “dumbass” as being hostile. I would also say that saying you want to see their names on indictments is hostile. You are clearly hostile about Clinton, deservedly or not.

No one is saying you should or have to support Clinton. We are all just trying to make our cases for the candidate we support.

And who’ve been president and vice president the last eight years?

I see the hostility coming from the Clinton camp first, because for some reason the Clinton supporters felt that she’s entitled to the presidency because of who she was in the 1990’s. Is she a feminist? Not that I can see. Is she the strong woman who stood by her cheating husband who now is a warmonger and who spent the last few years dodging criticisms of the Bush Regime? Yep.

My hostility is and will always remain pointed at the republican party. Anyone who is pandering to the techniques and dirty tricks of this party is a shameful American and doesn’t deserve to be in the White House.

That’s how I feel and there isn’t much that is going to change it. As a Kucinich supporter from the start, I am pissed off at my fellow Democrats for saying he had funny looking ears and wasn’t tall enough to be the president. Elitist thinking! Good gawd. What a huge disappointment in how our own party has acted. The one guy who was inline with the progressives in this country got tossed aside. I suppose you can say the same thing about Edwards too. The only reason why I am supporting Obama at this point is because at the caucus in my town, I saw way too many dumbasses going into the Clinton corner. After all was said and done, Obama came out on top, thankfully in my opinion. That said, if he continues the warmongering once in office, I will speak out against it and will be bullshit.

And yes, I am pissed off at Hillary Clinton. Why can’t I be? Are the Hillary supporters saying that I can’t? It appears to be that way! Stop being right wing control freaks! Like I’ve said numerous times above, you can support Hillary and I will not. Deal with it.

Well, unfortunately it is now Democrats – namely Obama supporters – who are perpetuating the Republican-created Hillary Hatred pathology.

People need to get over that vote. I believe it would in fact be Obama, based on his Rev. Wright speech, who would say it is important to understand the factors that go into what a person says and does. It’s easy to feel morally superior and hold fast to that in order to exercise frustration at what has since happened (which is the Bush Admin’s total responsibility. They prosecuted this war, NOT Clinton) and insist on punishing someone relentlessly, but I think it’s a risky ploy for Democrats to be so impossibly hard on her about that vote. And so black and white about it. I”ve never heard an Obama supporter discuss the complex factors that went into that vote. They outright dismiss her own words at that time, the caveats, the explanations, etc. They instead insist on calling it a “vote FOR war” (it wasn’t. She made that clear, but they ignore it out of desire and convenience). This, in my opinion, is what Republicans do as well. They didn’t care either about Gore’s real meaning about the Internet. They ran with their simple, black-and-white, negative version too. It got us Bush.

LHP at 203–”And we have two, count ‘em two , littres of Lab puppies for you to play with after breakfast.”

are ya NUTS? oh my, what fun that can be…..wow, enjoy them for me. if they were here, my sister would want one….

Cripes. Chill. I think Obama is for changing the tone.

Exactly, and with Karl Rove connected to Hillary behind the scenes, it’s no wonder that some are supporting her to keep the neocon thinking in office. Me? I want change. Some don’t, though.

If you’re scared of the word DUMBASS being in capital letters, then maybe this political stuff isn’t for you? We have to be strong and if we are going to act like the ROM (republican owned media) by gasping when a word is said or yelled, then we deserve to have more neocons in office for the rest of eternity! See?

By the way, Juno…..QUITE A FEW RIGHT WINGERS ARE SUPPORTING HILLARY. Does that bother you? It should. They’re driving the wedge between Hillary & Obama, but you’re too hostile against Obama to see it.

I have to chill now. Why, because you’re a Hillary supporter and all-knowing? Oh please. Get off your high horse with Hillary please! You don’t speak for any of us. Like I said, you can support her until your death, but I am choosing not to.

Ahhh yes. The urban raccoon problem.

Our rescues were tiny when we first got them, and always kept caged, then gradually introduced to finding food for themselves. Delightful little things when they were little, and they got lots of cuddling, walks with us, etc. And we learned to “hunt” tadpoles together (don’t ask; thank heaven there’s no youtube out there of the exercise).

Their 1st winter, they were kept in large outside cages with a nice little straw-filled box up twd the top for shelter, shelves and branches to climb). But every single one of those animals, in spite of all the cuddling and playing and “love”, began getting snippier and snippier during their second summer, so we were quite glad to have followed the path of heading for eventual release.

We have wild ones around our house here, living in hollows they make in the woods. They come and raid bird feeders at night, when we’re not smart enough to out-maneuver them (gawd they’re crafty and agile, whew). They’re always squabbling with eachother, even (especially?) the siblings who grew up together the natural way.

They just don’t seem very social as adults. Although we suspect young of the previous year tend to follow “mom” around the second year, she’s in NO mood for that, especially if she has another litter in tow, and she sounds really vicious driving them away. But it’s all bluff. We’ve never seen them actually fight. It’s sorta like watching the House and Senate, heh.

Also, they can carry rabies, the same strain as attacks cats and maybe politicians(?). So yeah, I’d be careful at night too, if you’re living in an area where they’re overcrowded, living in the stormdrains, used to getting handouts from well-meaning but misguided neighbors etc.

Our raccoons here are no problem – not crowded, and properly afraid of humans, so they dash off if we get near. [And we try not to attract them, but what can you do when they can easily shinny up your feeder pole that’s only as big around as your pinkie finger?! We’re too cheap to buy one of those $40 baffles, and aluminum siding says Nuh-uh to any of our ideas of cables and suspended contraptions.]

ramble ramble ramble…. besides, we like the critters…. on THEIR side of the house walls.

No, because civil discussion is so much better.

Hillary trusted George Bush to use war as a last resort when clearly from January 2001 to September 2001 he was talking about attacking Saddam because this man tried to kill his Daddy. Who the hell would trust him and his PNAC White House employees to do the rational thing? Oh wait! Hillary did. She believed she was not giving him the authority to go to war as his 2nd resort. Nope. She believed it would be #15 on the list. What a DUMBASS!

I’ve owned a housecleaning business now for close to 14 years and I knew back then that I could not trust George Bush & Dick Cheney to do the rational proper thing. Weird, huh?

Okay, my son needs to use the computer. I’ll check back later.

Obama supporters brag about Republicans supporting him and use it as evidence that he can unite the country. But it’s evidence of some terrible thing, complicity I presume, when some support Clinton?

I’m on your side, Kay. I want the Democrat to win. I just happen to think Clinton is better suited for the presidency right now than is Obama. This seems to be met with so much anger and viciousness from a lot of Obama supporters, which I don’t understand because he’s supposed to be inspiring people away from that sort of negativity. I only see it increasing.

hackles down pups (and no poo flinging) remember…

your candidate sucks and mine sucks too. Now off to make some coffee (Elitist blend)

Kay and Juno. Egads folks!

You sound like perfect examples of my #255.

Can you shinny up a 1/2″ pole? catch tadpoles?

“Petunia”! “Throckmorton”! I’d recognize you anywhere!

Have a pile of pancakes on me.

And yet, Juno, when I mentioned that I had supported Hillary until she stated twice that only she and McCain were qualified for the presidency, you called me dishonest and engaging in Republican spin. Ask yourself, how Hillary can ever believably endorse Obama against McCain after having stated that McCain has better qualifications. Secondly, ask yourself if you think African American Democrats could avoid believing the nomination had been stolen if Hillary wins only be superdelegate count.

Well, I think you’re misstating what I said. You stated your belief about Clinton’s words about McCain, saying you had not heard any other explanation. I responded by giving you another explanation, which I realized even before hearing anyone else explain it, including Terry McAuliffe (whom I do not like btw), which is that she was simply saying that, due to McCain’s vast qualifications and experience, she is better equipped to compete with him for the position of comander-in-chief. You rejected that explanation, which I think is the correct one, and instead chose to continue with the one that is more negative toward Clinton. I’d think a Democrat would prefer the more friendly explanation, which I also believe is the correct one. I do think that is Republican in nature since they too refuse explanations that are not to their liking and stick with the one they think will hurt the opponent more.

I think your second point is a bit more complex than just saying African Americans would believe she’d stolen the race by virtue of having been given the nomination by what are technically legitimate means. So there is a problem with using the term “stolen”, number 1. If the superdelegates award her the nomination because they believe she is better equipped to defeat McCain, and Obama’s side challenges that legitimate, if not painful, decision, should we then ask if women should feel Obama is trying to steal the nomination from them??? I don’t think so. I also think to phrase it as you have injects race into the argument, which I think doesn’t help at all.

I think there are many people who feel the media have been against Clinton, pretty nastily, and have given Obama a free pass, myself included. Is that a factor in deciding that supporters have a right to feel the campaign was not won or lost legitimately?

The rules include giving the superdelegates the right to make the decision if neither candidate has reached the winning number of delegates. If Obama’s supporters, who do not want revotes in Florida and Michigan, which I think is appalling, say in those cases “rules are rules”, why would they take a different position on rules in the case of superdelegates? That to me sounds like an attitude of entitlement.

more syrup anyone?

you got any boysenberry or raspberry syrup? They’re great on lemon/blueberry pancakes

d r o o l…..

can’t we jus all git along?

discussion is great.

raccoons have a habit of growling and fussing their way thru the day just because, no reason, just because someone else is there.

i love a good sharp discussion as much as the next guy, but…

i have plenty of raspberry left. ‘ere y’go *pours thru toobz*

thanks wobbly. enjoy your comments. your head’s on straight, and your brain’s a clickin’ alldedamtime ;->

I’m with you on the ‘but’

Thanks for the syrup. For the most part we all get along except this primary has been devisive and nasty. I enjoy discussions, hearty debates on issues (where politicians stand on particular issues) but oncee someone starts throwing around repug talking points, I’m out.

I do not believe Obama can win the general. The reason: He will be successfully painted as extremely liberal (and it’s his idealism, the very campaign he’s running, not his record, that will do that). So what? The problem is, Americans are conservative not in ideology but when it comes to making change.

Um, that’s a pretty broad statement.

As a Hoosier, I can tell you that I was offended by Clinton’s elitism in suggesting that she “knew” what offended us, and was arrogant enough to speak for us.

Who does she think she is, saying that Obama is elitist? He wasn’t *preaching* to us about being “bitter” or whatever–he was having a private conversation about analyzing our situation–and HE WAS SPOT ON!!

We’ve watched as plant after plant closed, we’ve been in the top ten of mortgage foreclosures and bankruptcies, and the jobs that are here are not paying enough to sustain a household. Damn right we’re bitter. And there’s not a thing wrong with that.

If there were any doubt that Hillary is a DINO, this will alleviate those doubts. Good Grief.

Did she stand up to the White House? Yes, I believe she did. She made clear, and SAID, she was not voting for war and that she wanted inspectors back in. She may have in fact stalled the war by doing so, trying to buy time and more evidence of no need to invade.

I recall very well my own horror at the coercion by Republicans and the public that was being placed on Congresspeople to vote in favor of that authorization. 70+% of the public was in favor of it. Hillary Clinton has been treated with more contempt and held to higher standards of explanation than has Bush! This makes no sense to me. Democrats always turn on their own.

Hillary Clinton did not read the intelligence report on Iraq that stated Iraq was not a threat before voting to get us into war.

She’s a republican in Democrat clothing.

And I think Obama is better suited but my stance is met with such anger and opposition from the Hillary supporters. See? It goes both ways. I see that it does, but I don’t see that you can see that. It’s the Hillary supporters who were outraged when Edwards & Kucinich were out most of their supporters went to Obama instead of her. They made it into a woman’s issue when it clearly was not! I know you’re not going to believe this but there are many in this country who know that since 1980 we’ve had either a Bush or a Clinton in office and when given the chance, we’re not going to support either one.

It was Hillary who said Obama didn’t have the experience to lead this nation, but what has her experience gotten her? A war in Iraq that is costly our nation billions a week and a campaign that is hell bent on using right wing dirty politics! No thanks. Tired of that shit.

Again, you can support Hillary now and if she gets on the ballot for November. Me? Not going to.

I have to confess my own brand of guilt. I have been avoiding the telly like the plague, just because of all the nonsense I know is going on. NONE of the nastiness takes away, for me, that simple 2 worded comment of yours:
“Supreme Court”. That says it all.

I feel a little trapped in that I really wanted Edwards, and now it’s Obama that we’re backing, but that’s fine. And I WILL readily accept Clinton if she’s the winning candidate for the national. I’ve done what I can in the primary. I have heard the Repug-talking-points and recognize them, AND warn others about them – in specific terms. I will NOT use them. I also do not feel I must subject myself to them endlessly; if I did, I’d go truly mad, and I already feel halfway there.

By avoiding immersing myself in the slime-soup of day-to-day mis-steps by exhausted candidates and their equally driven staffs, repeated endlessly through the MSM megaphone, I am rendered rather ignorant and vulnerable during FDL “discussions”, rather than being up to speed on every little bobble like so many here at the Lake. It’s the only way I can get through this.

I should add, though, that I am rather active passing along excellent links to those of our acquaintances that I know probably would otherwise miss them. It’s surprising how many people we meet who, within their extended families and circles of “friends”, co-workers, etc., have to deal with junk straight out of the repugspinmachine. I mainline them “ammunition” from FDL, Greenwald, etc. and they seem grateful. I take hope from the fact that so many of these people are just as angry and frustrated as we are, and are very eager to get this real information with which to combat the swift-boat-brand spin.

My weakness of choice: every once in a great while, I like to tune in to hear Pattycake Buchanan whine his miserable little dried-up heart out on the telly. He makes me smile. In my mind any way, he does nothing but advance OUR cause every time he cowers and whimpers like that. His misery index translates into a handy barometer for boosting my hope.

Even David Brooks, crafty as he is, nevertheless is losing his mojo for real, I do believe. He likes to pretend to be humble and fearful, even weak, but of course that’s been a ruse in the past. No more. I think he’s really scared.

Now, if we can just keep junior & shooter nervous, but not terrified to the point of blowing the bejeebers out of the planet in their growing panic, we may just have some pieces left to pick up and salvage, and a healthy Democratic margin with which to do so.

Thankyou for all that you do.

P E A C E

In addition to just generally lying his ass off, HADLEY FLAT OUT CONFUSED NEPAL WITH TIBET ON THIS WEEK AND STEPHAOPOULOS LET IT SLIDE WITHOUT BATTING AN EYE, LIFTING A FINGER OR SAYING A WORD ABOUT IT.

Check the tape.

I haven’t seen word one about it. What’s the deal with these schmucks!!

Suppose they’re issued a list of questions, but they are programmed not to react to the answers. They just blindly go on to the next thing on their list. Then into commercials a couple more times, some chit chat & small talk.

Then they walk out and collect a nice fat check for doing what they are told to do. Think? Not much if at all.

It’s not just Stephanopoulos. Last night I heard Dobbs hold forth on his infamous fence-out-all-the-brown idea, refuse to hold a dialog with his guest concerning related problems and concerns (e.g., run the fence right through graveyards also? churches and schools? rivers?…). Dobbs refused to budge from the dang fence and talk about ANYTHING else. It is and apparently will always be his one and only tune. He ended the show red in the face and shouting at his “guest”, but his demeanor indicated he thought of himself as being noble, not the stupid, ignorant, racist bully that came across the wires to our tv.

They just don’t “get it”, and apparently their employers want it to stay that way. Those who don’t follow the red marker get flagged and fired.

There used to be integrity in journalism. Now, not so much. It doesn’t pay.

Yeah, and…? That’s all well and good, Adie, but Stephanopoulos ain’t supposed to be a dimwitted demagogue like Dobbs and the fact that “everybody does it” is just another Nuremberg Defense for media incompetence.

The likes of Russert and Stephanopoulos and Schieffer letting these schmucks steal the 2000 Election and lie us into Iraq are a big part of why we’re in this fix in the first place. Their collective failure to do due diligence allowed these cretins to cheney this thing up in the first place and I’m just not gonna give them any more free passes.

Obama knows bitter….He is married to Michele!

Juno at 240: “Seh (sic) had to make that vote.” Just doing her job, eh, like some good Germans back in the early 40s? AUMF is for “Authorization of the Use of Military Force”– you can’t vote for that and then say you opposed the war.

John Edwards at least had the decency to apologize for his pandering, cowardly vote. SHillary continues to tout her “experience” & “judgment”.

But thanks for your 100% support for her pro-war vote (& your praise of pandering– SHillary doesn’t believe that moronic “Gods & Guns” shite she’s blathering, but hey, it appeals to the lizard brains so it’s okay). But since you support her vote= support the Glorious War, I have as little inclination to seriously listen to you as to Wm. “the Bloody” Kristol, McCain, LIEberman or any other of the war criminal NeoCons.

Goodgawd you folks just wanna put words in other people’s columns and then go and pick on em for what YOU said.

I’ll say it once v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y.

I described what I think some extremely bad journalists do.

NOwhere did I condone that which they do.

I believe many most of them are willingly allowing themselves to be used as shills, for whatever reasons. I’m not inside their minds. I don’t know why each of them acts in such a shoddy manner. I just know increasing numbers of people who call themselves journalists are doing a disgustingly bad job, and not worthy of the title.

Good night and good luck.

May you sleep well and awake refreshed.

P E A C E

Note to self: Tomorrow, come back and check of any of today’s discussionators ever discovered they were shouting bl**dy mudder at eachother all day and yet they were basically agreeing in principle, if not on every blanketyblank detail.

Self respect relies to large degree on the ability to respect others.