Paul .. perhaps because you have not read Keli’s book or looked at the links in the post you do not realize that her work is not based on “social science anecdotes” but on a recent study she worked on with Suffolk – which looks at shifts from an earlier study. Your pique would be more becoming if you actually had read the material you are attacking.

Siun, I did look at the links? Just because Goff confirms your own biases doesn’t mean she knows what she’s talking about. Anyone who looks at the poll she created for her book recognizes it for what it is — a poll designed to elict responses to specific questions that confirm the thesis of the book. Its a push poll — and Goff IS, in fact, pushing GOP talking points when she asks only if Jackson and Sharpton “speak for you”, then hypes the answers.

If this woman was intellectually honest, the name “Tavis Smiley” would have appeared on the survey. The name “Julian Bond” would have been on it. The names “John Conyers” and “Carol Moseley-Brown” would have appeared on it. But this wasn’t a survey about African American opinion — it was a survey of African-American opinion filtered through white sensibilities, i.e. “Here is a list of black people that white people know about…oh, and Russell Simmons too.”

hackles down, dude. what is the problem. Your going off on the thesis of her book that you admittedly haven’t read? That’s crackers! Blacks (as well as any other group) are not monoliths and I like that she addresses classism because therein lies additional tension within communities. Then you go on to attack her credibility?

well, Siun read it, and presented the thesis of the book — and she didn’t say that Siun got it wrong.

FWIW you being the only white guy in a two block radius doesn’t lend you any street cred in knowing what’s what with blacks.

yeah, well someone who does a survey of 400 african americans in two cities and then writes a book about it claiming authority on the views of black people is even less convincing in terms of street cred — especially when the survey is practically a push-poll for her thesis.

Look at the poll — her primary claim is that there is some huge difference with this new “hip hop generation”. But her poll doesn’t bear that out. 21% of those between 18-24 said they were ‘committed democrats’. 26% of those between 40-45% said the same thing. THAT’S WITHIN THE FREAKING MARGIN OF ERROR — her “sample size” for 18-24 year olds was 58 people…. and I hate to break it to you, but when that sample includes people from only two urban areas that aren’t exactly representative of African Americans as a whole, for her to be making any of the claims she is making is complete bullshit.

And it really is a push poll — asking if Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson “speaks for you?” Do you reallly think you would get the same basic “no” response if the question was asked about ANYONE? She doesn’t ask if Obama or Winfrey or Powell or Cosby speaks for them — just Jackson and Sharpton — then she hypes the answer in her press releases as if its significant.

And she’s grossly intellectually dishonest in her presentation here. Look at her presentation of the Simmons hip hope voter movement.

“As I stated in response to a previous question, while Russell Simmons for instance, described poverty as a signature issue of the “hip hop voter movement,” when I surveyed members of the so-called hip-hop generation “economic inequality” was outranked by the war as the most important issue.”

except the question didn’t ask what the most important issue of the “hip hop voter movement” should be — it asked what the most important issue facing America was. So, he we have Russell Simmons, talking about organizing people in the hip-hop community around an issue like poverty, and she tries to tell us that poverty is a low priority with the hip-hop generation because young black people recognize how much of a problem the war is for the country?

Sorry, but that’s complete bullshit.

Here’s a clue. You don’t decide to write a book, then create a poll around it to confirm the thesis of your book. That is what Goff did. Its not a big surprise that she was able to cherry pick the data from her poll to confirm her opinion.

FWIW you being the only white guy in a two block radius doesn’t lend you any street cred in knowing what’s what with blacks.

Yeah I have to say Paul, I think there were other factors that influenced that Edwards vote. By the time election day came around, his electability (or lack thereof) was something that influenced a lot of people as I recall, though I don’t have a polling link.

with all due respect jane, Edwards wound up with 40% of the white vote in SC, so “electability” wasn’t an issue — and, in fact, all the statewide polling that was done (including that done before the Iowa caucuses) show Edwards consistently in the low single digits in black support, It wasn’t the media blackout — he got 40% of the white vote. It wasn’t electability — he wasn’t getting the black vote from at least November. And given the fact that he got 37% of the black vote in SC in 2004, it wasn’t that he lacked appeal to black voters.

Hi–I’m not sure if you read some of my earlier posts but as I mentioned it’s very dangerous and not wholly accurate to just label something an “African-American issue” (or as you dub them issues of importance to the African-American community). As I stated in response to a previous question, while Russell Simmons for instance, described poverty as a signature issue of the “hip hop voter movement,” when I surveyed members of the so-called hip-hop generation “economic inequality” was outranked by the war as the most important issue. My point is it is not your place to dictate what constitutes issues of importance to African-Americans. You don’t have the authority to do that and frankly neither do I, but this type of thinking is precisely what gets Democrats in trouble.

Sorry, but as someone who lives in an African American community (I’m the only white guy for at least a two block radius0 and as someone who talks to his neighbors, I’d appreciate it if you did not assume that I don’t know what issues concern African Americans. Survey’s about what “the most important issue is” have more to do with what the media happens to be talking about at the time, and given the widespread disastisfaction with the Bush administration in all demographic categories, and how the war functions as symbol of the failures of the Bush administration, I don’t know how much credit I give to your survey results.

Do you have any historical evidence? Any data from 10 and 20 and 30 years ago, about the attitudes of young black men and women toward the Democratic party? Any data that shows that in the black community historically, unless you are a staunch democrat by the age of 23, that you are far less likely to vote Democratic as you grow older?

Listen, I think its great that there are people who are getting booked on TV and call Pat Buchanan on his sh*t…. and if writing a book that reinforces the GOP talking points about how the Democratic Party doesn’t pay enough attention to the African American community, and that there is this brand new and unique “Hip Hop Generation” that is completely different from the “Rap Generation” that preceded it, and the “Funk Generation” that preceded that, and the “Soul Generation” that preceded that, well more power to you.

The ninute you try to blame Kerry’s loss on his failure to connect with the African American community, as far as I’m concerned everything you say has to be treated with skepticism. And when you cite the fact that Bush got 16% of the AA vote in Ohio to defend your point without mentioning what was done to suppress the vote of urban (and extremely Democratic) blacks voters in that state, well, I just can’t see you as credible.

Unlike Siun, I’m skeptical of anecdote as social science evidence. Nor do I see much validity in comparing the attitude of “young people” to their parents, because I’m old enough to know that the vast majority of us turn into our parents eventually — and that process start the minute you become a parent yourself. And I sure don’t see Donna Brazile as someone who speaks for more of the African American community than herself.

In other words, I hope you sell lots of books, and get on TV all the time to tell the Pat Buchanan’s of the world that they are full of sh*t, but I’m not buying.

The moral of the story as Congressman Davis–who is a Democrat–relayed it to me is that the Democratic Party has to evolve beyond the traditional thinking of “these are black voters” and this is our “black message” and “black strategy” for reaching “black voters.” They have to start treating black voters as just as much of a priority as other voting blocs–with their own individual interests within those groups. So for instance, instead of waiting to campaign in a black church a few weeks before a general election, how about following Mike Huckabee’s lead (yes Mike Huckabee) and spending the entire time between your election and re-election visiting the same churches–not to say “vote for me” but “give me a chance to earn your vote.” (For the record Huckabee was re-elected with 40% of the black vote in his state.)

Instead of treating outreach targeting African-American audiences as an afterthought–how about spending as much money on media targeting African-American audiences, as the Party does on targeting traditional soccer moms or Nascar dads (both of which can be black people!)

Lastly, I would end with something that Cornell Belcher, the DNC pollster said to me, which is that he and Donna Brazile have been working with the Democratic Party to help them evolve their perspective on outreach to black voters from simply a GOTV operation (which stands for Get Out the Vote–essentially just reminding voters to vote for you, where, what time etc.) and instead becoming more of a “Persuasive” Operation, as in asking black voters to vote for the party and giving them specific, tangible reasons WHY they should do so. I actually think that this highlights one of the most profound areas for potential improvement within the party. It took an African-American pollster and adviser to raise this issue with the DNC leadership. Lack of diversity in high-ranking leadership is a problem throughout politics–including Democratic circles. The Donna Braziles are few and far between. Ultimately, politics is sadly almost like any other business. If you don’t have diverse voices guiding your strategy you will lose touch with those audiences, whether you are Coca-Cola or the Democratic Party. If they continue to bring in diverse voices to guide them on some of these issues and demonstrate a willingness to change beyond the politics of usual, then the party has a chance to re-engage some of these younger voters.

This has been SO MUCH FUN. THANK YOU to Bev and Siun and to all of you for your questions–even the tough ones ; ) Honestly, this has been a real pleasure. Feel free to visit my website: http://www.keligoff.com and drop me a line sometime.

Have a great night!
Keli