[Please welcome author Philip Shenon and our host, Jeff Lomonaco, in the comments. As is our tradition in Book Salons, please stay on the topic of the book. Thanks, Bev.]
I would like to welcome Philip Shenon. His new book, The Commission: The Uncensored History of the 9/11 Investigation, is a superb book. You should absolutely read it. Among its many accomplishments is that it makes a narrative of bureaucratic process enormously compelling. It helps, of course, that the bureaucratic process Shenon is writing about is the production of the 9/11 Commission’s report on the first of the pair of disastrous events that seems destined to define the soon-to-be-over Bush era. But Shenon turns the bureaucratic narrative of the 9/11 Commission and its report into a compelling read also because he is an extraordinary journalistic writer. The Commission is one of the best-written books by a journalist I have ever read.
The book is a page-turning and impressively perceptive telling of the internal dynamics and research of the Commission, with its ten prominent commissioners headed up by Tom Kean and Lee Hamilton, its exceptional and colorful staff and, in the middle of it all, the Commission’s executive director, Philip Zelikow, who is the central character in the book. Even when the book recounts the already well-known, most dramatic public episodes in its production – most notably Richard Clarke’s public testimony and then-National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice’s public response – they are told in new and genuinely gripping detail. In the process of recounting the story of the report’s production, from different pivotal choices for how to proceed to encountering witnesses who were less than truthful, a list that not surprisingly prominently includes George Tenet, Vice President Cheney, and President Bush, to the clashes of staff members with the notoriously difficult personality Zelikow (on whom more in a moment), The book offers a pretty comprehensive account of the major issues at stake in the investigation of the attacks of September 11, 2001; and it makes a number of really interesting analytic insights/judgments. In a sense, the book is a really good, critical and contextual reading of the 9/11 report itself, which is an important accomplishment in its own right. As the Shenon himself shows, the public reception of the report was shaped by a focus on a few dimensions of it: the powerful narrative of the awful day itself; the recommendation for creating a Director of National Intelligence, undercutting the head of the CIA, which Shenon shows probably had too much to do with the rather quirky facts that George Tenet lied extensively to the Commission while the head of the FBI, Robert Mueller, undertook a massive, and eventually successful, charm offensive with the commissioners that persuaded them to leave the dysfunctional FBI mostly alone; and the marquee judgment that Iraq and Al Qaeda had no meaningful operational relationship and that there was no evidence of any Iraqi role in September 11, 2001.
Those are, to be sure, important aspects of the report, but Shenon’s book explores the many others that may turn out to be of greater historical significance. For instance, Shenon recounts – again in gripping detail – the Commission’s eventual discovery of President Clinton’s December 24, 1998 Memorandum of Notification authorizing a covert operation by CIA and its allies in Afghanistan that could legally include the killing of Osama bin Laden. As James Baker, in his fascinating book, In the Common Defense, explains, this kind of authorization had to involve a shift to a law-of-armed-conflict basis on the part of the U.S. toward bin Laden – and sharply qualifies the notion that the Clinton’s administration’s pre-9/11 mindset and approach to the threat from Al Qaeda was limited to law enforcement plus diplomacy.
There are many other narrative and analytic threads that Shenon weaves gracefully together, too many to go through. Let me just mention one other, because I think it is similarly revealing about questions of larger significance. Shenon explains how the Commission staff, including Zelikow, and the Commission’s report ended up concluding that Vice President Cheney had lied to them about whether he had received prior authorization from President Bush to order the shoot-down of incoming commercial flights on September 11, 2001. Cheney was, of course, outraged that the Commission did not believe him, as though his power as Vice President meant his word vouched for itself despite being contradicted by all the available documentary evidence and the overwhelming majority of testimony. But Shenon raises the question of why Cheney went to so much trouble to construct a lie at all – most people, Shenon rightly notes, would probably forgive the Vice President for having ordered the shoot-down, even though it was unconstitutional. Shenon suggests that an open acknowledgement of Cheney’s circumvention of the chain of command on that day would have been politically damaging in the context of the 2004 presidential election (when the report was released). But I would suggest an alternative, more principled explanation. One of the main features of the outlandish, Addington-Cheney theory of executive power is the claim that essentially any action the executive takes is constitutional, at least in the national security arena. As Jack Goldsmith has shown in his very important book, The Terror Presidency, Addington has rejected the alternative view that in genuine emergency circumstances, the executive may take extraordinary, even extra-constitutional, actions, while incurring the attendant obligation to openly acknowledge to the country and the Congress having broken the law under necessity and throwing him- or herself upon the justice of the country. Well, if you reject that notion, there is simply no way to legitimize and explain what Cheney had done. It was flatly impossible to justify the action as constitutional, since it violated the military chain of command.
So instead they lied to protect the principle that the Constitution provided for all circumstances, and that everything they did could be squared within the constitutional powers allotted to the executive branch. To admit the truth would be to admit that they had violated their own most deeply held convictions about executive power.
I do not mean to suggest that these are the central lessons of Shenon’s book. As I said, the book is rather composed of many compelling narrative and analytic threads, and it is far too rich to easily summarize them. I only mean to illustrate the genuine importance of the book. I do want to end by noting one peculiarity of Shenon’s book: the thread that he proposes as the central one is also the least persuasive. I am talking about the book’s treatment of Philip Zelikow. Perhaps in part out of the desire to put a controversial, even explosive, theme at the heart of the book, Shenon’s book seeks to show that Zelikow was a kind of White House mole who produced a report designed to protect the Bush administration. But the book demonstrates almost the opposite, and the Zelikow who emerges is rather a determined historian. There are no doubt a lot of criticisms of the Commission’s report to be made. And Zelikow’s friend, colleague and – at the time of the report – once and future boss Condoleezza Rice has escaped, to a stunning degree, broad public accountability for her failure before and after September 11, 2001. But as a more settled judgment of her tenure as National Security Adviser is pursued in the years to come, I have little doubt that a considerable part of the evidence for the case against her will be drawn from the 9/11 Report itself. And more generally, from his early, aggressive stance toward getting information out of the White House – which led Alberto Gonzales to refuse to work with him – to his late, ingenious and courageous approach to declassification issues (which Shenon seems to try to spin negatively, because it led to a no doubt politicized effort to investigate Zelikow himself for his handling of classified information), Zelikow emerges as a sharp-elbowed, difficult and ultimately pretty successful pursuer of as much of the whole story as he could get and tell. And I think if you look at the various reports on the Bush era’s most controversial national security developments, the 9/11 Report is far and away the most reliable. Indeed, one of the many virtues of Shenon’s book is that it demonstrates how and why that should be so.
I look forward to the discussion. And once again, buy this book and read it!
Related posts:
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes David Cole, Torture Memos: Rationalizing the Unthinkable
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Ryan Grim: This Is Your Country On Drugs
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Christopher Eisgruber, The Next Justice: Repairing the Supreme Court Appointments Process
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Robert D. Auerbach, Deception and Abuse at the Fed: Henry B. Gonzalez Battles Alan Greenspan’s Bank
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes William Greider: Secrets of the Temple





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What a flattering introduction. I’m pleased to be here and look forward to your questions.
Welcome to the Lake Mr. Shenon, and thank you Mr. Lomonaco for hosting this discussion.
The subtitle of your book is the “UNCENSORED History of the 9/11 Investigation” so I’ll come right out and ask, what WAS censored in the official 9-11 Report?
Philip welcome to the Lake.
Plenty. To begin with, the commission, in order to find agreement between five Republicans and five Democrats, had to leave out any issue of personal accountability, or so the commission’s leaders believed. At the end of this investigation, no human being was held responsible for his or her incompetence. And some of those people went on to be promoted to more important jobs. There’s also plenty of evidence to show ties between mid-ranking officials in the Saudi government and some of the 9/11 hijackers. But the commission’s report was written as, essentially, an exoneration of Saudi Arabia.
Welcome, Philip. The book is a great read, and it’s got lots of juicy details I couldn’t touch on in my intro that I hope come up in the discussion. Elliot’s gotten us off to a great start.
Thanks Jeff. And I’m intrigued by your comments about Philip Zelikow. In fairness to Zelikow, I’ve posted the entire email exchange between him and me — something like 150 pages — on the book’s website: http://www.thecommissionbook.com. People can see for themselves if I’ve been fair to him. Dr. Zelikow wouldn’t be interviewed face-to-face, but he agreed to a long email ”interview.” It went on for months.
This sounds like a really great book!
How “political” were Kean, Hamilton, and the other Commission members? Do you go into the whole “Kissinger” mess, and the Guiliani resignation from the Commission?
Phil, I read the whole book, far into the night, great book. Any fallout from the Bush administration or the main characters?
Thanks. The whole Kissinger saga — Kissinger was the first chairman of the commission and lasted in the job for only a couple of weeks — is an opening chapter of the book. And it’s one of my favorites. The 9/11 widows face down Kissinger in his lair on Park Avenue over his conflicts of interest. He’s so rattled he spills his coffee and nearly falls off a sofa. And within hours, he’s resigned from the commission. Kean and Hamilton are about as apolitical as you’ll find in national politics. Both had reputations for reaching across the aisle. Some of the other commissioners were far more partisan.
To follow up on Elliot’s question a little, on p. 406 you indicate that the Democratic commissioners gave up the fight to document the more serious failures of Bush, Rice and others in the administration in the months before 9/11. But it’s unclear from the book which failures went undocumented. Is the idea simply that the narrative did not make clear enough just how responsible Bush and Rice were, or was there actually documentary evidence that was deliberately left out of the report?
This speaks to my one major criticism of the book – its treatment of Zelikow. I gather that Zelikow is something of a difficult personality, and it’s also clear from the book that on a number of issues he had a definite perspective that he pushed as the staff worked on the report. But your book shows that on a number of issues his perspective did not win out, which seems to be evidence that he was willing to follow the evidence. And in other ways, as I indicated in my intro, you offer a lot of evidence of how aggressive Zelikow was in pursuing the evidence. I really doubt that if, oh say, Scooter Libby had been appointed exec director of the 9/11 Commission staff, either those things would have happened. So in the end, I had a hard time understanding the nature of the criticism of Zelikow.
Welcome to the Lake Mr. Shenon and Mr.Lomonaco -
unfortunately I have only read excerpts online to date – absolutely gripping – can’t wait for mine to get here
loved the story about Kissinger and the Jersey Girls
The FBI and State Department aren’t happy — Secretary of State Rice is a central figure in the book, and not portrayed with flattery. The commissioners issued a joint statement after the book was published in defense of Philip Zelikow, as did some of the senior staffers. I’ve posted them on the book’s website. Dr. Zelikow gave an interview several weeks ago to Democracy Now, Amy Goodman’s radio/tv show on Pacifica, in which he criticized the book.
I too found the book compelling. I am particularly interested in whether you believe the Saudi-Finance part of the Joint Intelligence Committee report will ever be released? Did the commissioners have access to that material? Was there any interest on the part of the commissioners to lay out the evidence on this topic?
Zelikow had so many conflicts of interest, some that did not come out until after the Report was published. Can you tell us some of those and how those conflicts of interest affected -or not- the Commissions conclusions.
Mr. Shenon, In recent weeks there has been cosiderable speculation that Condi Rice could be John McCain’s running mate.
Generally speaking, what did your work on this book suggest as to her competency and truthfulness?
I am not big on the necessity defense. Yoo uses it in his memo to justify torture and extra-judicial killings.
As for the 9/11 report I think the White House successfully limited the commission’s investigation. I am not sure what Jeff Lomonaco means that Zelikow was a determined historian while at the same time seeing that his good buddy Condi got off easy. That seems like something less than determined. And I believe that the price of Condi’s “testimony” was that no other White House officials would be called on. So not a very good deal for us but a wonderful one for the White House. Way to go, deterined historian man!
ha ! am reading post war Congressional Comm’s report on Pearl Harbor – there are parallels – this isn’t one of them
The commission’s final report does present a lot of the specific evidence about what went on — or rather, what didn’t go on — in the Bush White House in the months leading up to 9/11. It’s amazing how often and how urgently the White House was told to expect a catastrophic terrorist attack, and how little was done as a result. But you wouldn’t understand that fully unless you read through the footnotes, where a lot of that information is buried. And the report makes no judgment about whether the Bush administration’s actions were appropriate, when clearly most of the commission’s staff and many of the Democratic commissioners felt that the Bush White House had dropped the ball, disastrously so.
As to Zelikow, more in a moment…
Zelikow concealed evidence, took perjured testimony, and allowed the most important witnesses to cover up the truth. Almost everything in the Commission’s Report has been proven false, especially the so-called history of “Al Qaeda”. Behind the scenes, Zelikow has also worked with Condosleeza Rice (Torture Czaress) to support the Iraq Occupation/Genocide.
The “hijackers” who attacked the WTC had been trained at US military bases and had been financed by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.
Here is proof of Zelikow’s corruption. The 9-11 Commission insulted our intelligence and endangered us all by the following statement.
The commission had access to the full Congressional investigation. (Before the 9/11 commission, there was a joint Congressional inquiry into intelligence failures before the attacks.) But the full report has never been made public. There is a 28-page portion of the report that apparently documents many of these links between Saudi intelligence operatives and two of the 9/11 hijackers who lived openly in San Diego. The Bush administration insisted that material remain secret. And it still is. As I say, even though a lot of the staffers wanted the report to be far tougher on the Saudis, it was read as an exoneration of the Saudis.
Dr. Zelikow was a close friend of Condi Rice’s from their joint service on the National Security Council staff in Bush 41. After Bush 41, they wrote a book together on German reunification. Zelikow was placed by Bush 43 on his White House transition team, specifically to oversee the counterterrorism operation at the NSC. (Rice, of course, is Bush 43’s first national security adviser.) Zelikow is one of the architects of the “demotion” of Richard Clarke, Bush’s counterterrorism czar (a job he also held in the Clinton White House). Some of this, but clearly not all of this, was known to the commissioners when Dr. Zelikow was hired. Many of the commissioners and staff learned only at the end of the commisison’s work that Dr. Zelikow was the previously anonymous author of the Bush White House’s “preemptive war” doctrine, embodied in a White House memo released several months before the invasion of Iraq. To the staff members, all of those ties made it difficult for them to have an honest discussion in front of Dr. Zelikow about the performance of the Bush White House. After the commission went out of business and Bush was reelected, Rice was named Secretary of State. And she immediately appointed Philip Zelikow to be her “counselor” at the State Department.
Not to be a curmudgeon but I have to say I have gotten very tired of the portrayal of Lee Hamilton as “non-partisan”. He seems more of a tame Democrat that Republicans can plug in when needed as they did here and in the Iraq Study Group, and if memory serves previously, with Iran-Contra.
Do you think that there will really be any accountabilty for so many ‘oversights’ in the original commission document? I was wondering if some of the congress would re-open and re-investigate, for example or if we happen to get a working justice department again, there could be a special counsel.
The staff and several of the commissioners had real questions about Secretary Rice’s truthfulness and her competence. But many found it distasteful to take on someone with such “rock star” celebrity and popularity.
That’s true. Both the Navy and Army commanders at Pearl Harbor had their careers ended in disgrace as a result of the attacks.
It seems to me that quality (not) should not be a deterence in any future inquiry.
Two things on this. First, you have to distinguish between the necessity defense – which Yoo advocates in the torture memo, as you indicate – and what I am talking about, which is a view that has been recently advocated by a pretty wide range of folks, from David Cole to one of the balkinization folks to Jack Goldsmith. It’s not a defense. Rather it’s throwing yourself upon the justice and mercy of the country, admitting that you have broken the law and violated the Constitution and seeking forgiveness for it. Or something along those lines. The point is, it’s the difference between seeking the wrap yourself in legality and the Constitution, and admitting that you stepped outside them.
Second, I don’t quite think that Zelikow let his good buddy Condi get off. As Philip indicates, the two of them have a long professional association. And Rice more than any individual in the Bush administration is responsible for its failure to focus on the threat from Al Qaeda before September 11. And Rice has escaped broad public accountability for her conduct. But I don’t think it’s at all clear that Zelikow was either motivated to produce that result, nor that the 9/11 report is responsible for it. I would suggest to you that Rice has even more successfully escaped accountability for her disastrous role in the entire run-up to the Iraq war, and Zelikow obviously had nothing to do with that. Furthermore, as Philip acknowledges, the 9/11 report does have lots of damning evidence. True, you gotta read the footnotes to get a lot of it. But show me where in the SSCI report you find anything like the full evidence of Rice’s role in Niger uranium fiasco. You don’t.
Washington is obsessed for now with the presidential race — specifically the Obama-Clinton battle. I haven’t heard any discussion here of reopening the 9/11 commission investigation. I think one big disclosure in my book is how the commission overlooked a vast archives of intelligence about terrorism and Al Qaeda in particular at the NSA, the eavesdropping agency. I have heard that some Congressional staffers are wondering whether someone shouldn’t go back into the NSA and take a look. (When the commission made an 11th-hour visit to the NSA in 2004, it discovered some explosive stuff, but it was too late to do more.)
Short and Kimmel
This emerges pretty clearly from the book. It’s really remarkable the number of times that a particular choice was made by the Commission only because Kean and others sided with the Democrats when Hamilton had sided against them.
Not long after the 911 commission report was released I attended an ACLU luncheon where Senator BenVineste was the guest speaker. He did speak about the findings of the commission and was a surprisingly very poor speaker.
The interesting part was during the Q&A where I have never seen anyone dance around very pointed questions without giving answers. His speaking style improved during this period but it seemed that the Q&A session was cut short when the attendees tried to pin down some facts. He did not stay to schmooze with the attendees which was also odd as it was a fund raiser for the AZ ACLU.
I might question some of this. Many of the staffers felt they could not have an open discussion about Rice’s performance because of her close friendship with Zelikow — and I can’t imagine that didn’t hinder how the investigation treated her. And the staffers told me that Zelikow repeatedly tried to suggest that Dick Clarke, Rice’s nemesis, couldn’t be trusted. It was Zelikow who insisted that Clarke be placed under oath at all private interviews, at a time when few people really understood who Dick Clarke was. I think Zelikow’s actions certainly set a tone that worked to Rice’s benefit.
Thank you Mr Shenon for coming to FDL. Your narrative here is fascintating. I am looking forward to reading your book.
What was your take on George Bush’s actions on the day of the 9/11 attacks and his apparent delayed reaction when told of the planes hitting the WTC?
Zelikow is one of the architects of the “demotion” of Richard Clarke, Bush’s counterterrorism czar (a job he also held in the Clinton White House).
Philip, could you detail a little more about this. I don’t quite get what the specifics of Clarke’s complaint about Zelikow’s role in the transition was.
It seems with so much fabrication by Tenet and Rice, that re-visitation would be in order. Weren’t there a number of FBI and military folks that went public when they were uninvited because of their ‘inconvenient’ testimony?
Many staffers and commissioners told me that Kean really was determined to get to the facts. And had there been a more partisan Democrat as his number-two, the outcome of the commission’s work might have been very different. Lee Hamilton, by comparison to Kean, was reluctant to antagonize the Bush administration.
Yes, I realize it is still secret, but I assume bits and pieces of it are in other venues. Right now I am half way through two related books (I really don’t recommend this dual reading habit I’ve acquired), but Steve Coll’s new book on the bin Laden Family, and Roy Gutman’s “How we Missed the Story” — on Afghanistan from the end of Soviet Military Occupation to the present. (by the way, Gutman will be on Booknotes tonight at 10:00 ET) and I am trying to sharpen my own understanding of Saudi Religious and Financial Culture and how this relates to whatever their policy might really be, and beyond that how our own policy process comprehends their actions. I assume the Joint Intelligence report actually names names in what is termed the “Golden Chain” — and I assume that both Coll and Gutman are essentially naming the same people. So what’s missing is the ability to assess how policy makers — or our intelligence structures understand this “chain” and the culture it represents.
Is it true Karl Rove started calling Zelikow directly, during the investigation?
It’s prety straight-forward. In late 2000, Zelikow is named to the White House transition team to help the new National Security Adviser, Condoleeza Rice, set up her counterterrorism staff. The staff is led by a holdover from the Clinton administration, a career bureaucrat named Richard Clarke (who had previously worked for Bush 41, too). Zelikow recommends that Clarke and his team be, effectively, demoted. Clarke, who had instant access to the Oval Office in the Clinton years, loses instant access. In fact, Clarke is not allowed to brief President Bush on terrorism threats until AFTER 9/11. When Clarke hears later that Zelikow has been named staff director of the 9/11 commisison, he figures, “the fix is in.”
Thanks, that is interesting, and lets us add Zelikow the Bushie War Criminal list.
But 9-11 was an inside job. Zelikow covered it up. The Report does not mention the magical controlled demolition of WTC 7. Members of the Bin Laden family were secretly flown to Saudi Arabia on Sept. 12. By the way, has that rascal USAma Bin Laden been caught yet? There are the Dancing Israelis, he mysterious Stock Future trades, hundreds of cameras at the Pentagon but no pictures shown of the attack…Then the sacred ground, of WTC 1 and 2 was defiled by shipping the destroyed steel girders to China. That steel was evidence of the crimes.
Mr Shenon – are you familiar with the documentary Press for Truth ? (no, it’s not one of those ‘controlled demolitions!’ screeds) – an hour 20 min documentary endorsed by Jersey Girls wherein a non journalist takes on the Commission through info to be found in open source media
am particularly curious about the Commission’s lack of curiosity with ISI – Pakistani Intel Service
The commission’s phone records show that Rove called in to talk to Zelikow at least four times in 2003. Both Rove and Zelikow insist that these were totally innocent conversations involving Zelikow’s old work at the University of Virginia (where Zelikow ran a presidential history project). But when the staff learns of the contacts, there is huge suspicion of what is going on….. (Rove has recently responded to the book, and I’ve posted video of it on the book’s website). The suspicion on the staff grew worse after it was learned that Zelikow had ordered his secretary at the commission to stop keep phone records of his contacts with the White House. Zelikow denies this, I should note in fairness.
hmmmm
Yes, I was very impressed by that film. It captured a lot of the controversy well and it introduced me to Paul Thompson, who wrote the very valuable Terror Timeline, which I recommend. The Pakistani stuff is fascinating, although I’ve not seen the proof of a clear tie between ISI and the 9/11 hijacking. (Maybe some of that evidence is sitting at the NSA!)
Extra-Constitutional “necessity” has been poisoned as far as I am concerned as a defense or whatever else you want to call it.
Again just because Zelikow did not participate in a later coverup (because he had no opportunity to do so) does not mean he did not particpate in a previous coverup (where he did indeed have such an opportunity). If anything the delay in the disclosure of who re-wrote State’s opinion on “preventive war” can be seen as Condi guarding Zelikow’s back just like he had hers during the 9/11 Commission.
Many of the staff were startled by the belated discovery that Zelikow was the (previously secret) author of the White House’s 2002 preemptive war strategy. Early on the commission’s investigation, some of the staffers thought Zelikow had been determined to find links between Iraq and Al Qaeda that might have justify the Iraq invasion (an invasion that Zelikow’s 2002 strategy memo had helped make possible). The staff rose up to oppose Zelikow….
Whitewash.
All I’ll say on that is that I think the final product from the Commission is not at all what one would predict from the notion that the fix was in. (Again, compare the SSCI report on prewar intel on Iraq. There the fix really was in, from the Vice President’s office, as the excellent reporter Laura Rozen has reported in some detail.) No doubt Zelikow (not unlike Clarke?) has a big head and very sharp elbows. He also had clear views on issues; but he seems to have been able to accept losing battles.
As for the point that even if that is so, in the first place he created an environment that guaranteed that Rice would not be properly criticized, that is certainly possible. But could it really be that all the Democratic commissioners, as well the staffers, were so successfully cowed by him that the truth didn’t come out?
I’ll add I think the NYT itself has very interestingly suggested that there is an important story to be told of Zelikow’s role in round two, as it were, of the Bush administration’s internal battle over torture. Check this out from the important story on Bradbury last October:
At least a few administration officials argued that no reasonable interpretation of “cruel, inhuman or degrading” would permit the most extreme C.I.A. methods, like waterboarding. Mr. Bradbury was placed in a tough spot, said Mr. Zelikow, the State Department counselor, who was working at the time to rein in interrogation policy.
When we know so many of the lies, like your Cheney authority story above, the yellow cakes, the airplane attack memo/but “couldn’t anticipate”, and we know the administration’s adherence to secrecy, do you think that we/the public will ever have most of the answers and story in this administration? For instance, Rove has certainly kept his cover.
You also mentioned earlier that there were 11th hour trips to the NSA, why weren’t the commissioners interested in what the NSA had to start with?
Hi. What was the whole controversy about Norman Mineta’s testimony versus Cheney’s. Was Mineta’s testimony left out or altered?
Also, did you hear anything about Atta, FBI files seized related to his supposed visit on one of the Sun Cruz’s boats right before 9/11…???
Also, the $100,000 to Atta via Riggs bank via the Pakistani General?
I’ve got a separate question before we run out of time (and I’ll hang around for a while longer). The book shows that the Commission staff were very strongly convinced that Tenet was not telling them the truth, and that seems hard to dispute. It seems to me that one of the tragedies of the Bush era has been the way that Tenet derailed efforts to perform effective oversight (by Congress and others) of the administration by lying to protect Bush and the White House, so that when, after he was screwed over by the White House over the slam-dunk business, he tried to tell anew some of the real story, his credibility was completely shot, and other parts of the story he could no longer tell truthfully, because it would contradict testimony he’d previously given under oath. Does that gibe with your sense of Tenet’s role in the part of the story you’ve looked at?
Interesting about Zelikow. (Many things are interesting about Zelikow.) But it appears that after he joined Rice’s State Department, he was a voice for the protection of civil liberties in a lot of the debates over detainees and harsh interrogation techniques. Apparently David Addington hates Zelikow, which explains why Zelikow didn’t get a job early in the Bush administration. For civil libertarians, there can be no higher honor that to be considered an enemy of David Addington’s. Zelikow’s legacy is a complicated one…
philip shenon at 4 says-”But the commission’s report was written as, essentially, an exoneration of Saudi Arabia.”
but did it exonerate saudi arabia?
(my apologies if answered in depth later in comments, am still catching up)
Even, right wingers at WorldNutDaily admit that ISI financed the hijackers. Benazir Bhutto confirmed the links between Pakistan, Busharaff and “Al Qaeda” before she was executed.
Hmmm…maybe he is a source for the latest ABC and AP stories about those meetings….
There aren’t any good answers about the failings with the NSA files. I’ve heard it argued by the staffers that the NSA just wasn’t considered as “sexy” a subject as the CIA, even though the NSA provides much of the raw material that finishes up CIA analysis.
The White House naming Henry Kissinger originally to chair the 9/11 Commission should I think dispel any doubts about how objective and investigative the Bush Administration wanted the Commission to be.
Again relying on memory here, the Commission did not have subpoena power so it was dependent on what the Administration wanted to release and when, if, and how it wanted to release it.
I apologize if I’m missing some questions. It’s hard to keep up! But I’m trying….
we’re just all going to have to buy this book!
Actually it did have subpoena power. But it could issue a subpoena only if Kean and Hamilton agreed on one (and they were loathe to use subpoenas because they though it would unnecessarily antagonize the White House) or if a majority of the commissioners agreed on one. And given Kean and Hamilton’s reluctance, only three subpoenas were ever issued (Pentagon, FAA, NY City Hall…..) Imagine if the commission had subpoenaed the CIA and gotten a hold of those interrogation tapes, the ones that have since been destroyed.
Exactly.
Zelikow was not in a position to act as effectively as Jack Goldsmith has been. Goldsmith, after all, could offer (and, as happened, withdraw existing, awful) authoritative legal positions basically binding on the executive branch. But I strongly suspect Zelikow was a if not the moving force behind efforts to set the Bush administration’s interrogation policy, and its larger approach to the treatment of detainees and the entire campaign against Al Qaeda, on a better footing. His extraordinary lecture, whose argument the rest of the public debate about torture is only starting to catch up with, contains hints along these lines, with Bush’s September 2006 speech the significant public statement. Still, as either Lederman or Balkin has pointed out, those efforts, by Zelikow and presumably others, evidently failed to a significant extent, as Team Cheney has endured and to some degree won out.
Nevertheless, it’s a story I’d like to hear.
It was certainly read as an exoneration. In fact, the Saudi embassy in Washington posted much of the report on its website as “proof” that it was an exoneration! (I think it may still be there.)
Oops, I messed up the sentence and the link. The extraordinary Zelikow lecture is “Legal Policy in a Twilight War,” and it is available here.
Thanks for the correction.
I should point out that Zelikow began his career as a Democrat and worked with civil liberties and civil rights groups as a young lawyer.
The commission’s staff certainly felt that President Bush’s performance on the morning of 9/11 was very weak. Apart from a few die-hards in the administration, does anyone suggest otherwise? The video of those seven minutes in the Florida classroom are disturbing to watch.
philip shenon at 12 says in part–”Dr. Zelikow gave an interview several weeks ago to Democracy Now, Amy Goodman’s radio/tv show on Pacifica, in which he criticized the book.’
what were his criticisms?
I saw that in the email exchange between the two of you. Just to be clear, my impression is that Zelikow is both a genuine conservative and a partisan Republican. But as you yourself say in the book (p. 406), “Zelikow’s instincts as a historian could overwhelm any other motivation, partisan or otherwise.”
Dr. Zelikow said that there were no phone logs in the office. (His staff says otherwise.) He also says that he never gave an order to his secretary to stop keeping a log of White House calls. I believe he uses the word “hype” in describing a lot of my book. You can find the video at the Democracy Now website.
As was his statement that he watched the first plane hit the WTC on TV, when there was no such footage at the time…unless he watched it in the car from some special camera…I think he just made stuff up.
The dog that didn’t bark
Absolutely. One of the early chapters (again, another of my favorites) is a West Wing showdown between Zelikow and Alberto Gonzales, then the White House counsel. Zelikow is so aggressive in demanding evidence from the White House that Gonzales apparently calls Tom Kean to say that he will never meet with Zelikow again. And whatever Zelikow’s early efforts to find evidence of a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq, he does eventually sign on to the staff finding that there was NOT a close working relationship.
My book has a lot of criticism of Mayor Giuliani. But I don’t think anybody can fault his performance on the morning of 9/11. He really comforted the city and the nation in way that the president did not. It’s a stark contrast to Bush’s performance.
I just want to mention another remarkable detail disclosed in the book. The book indicates that when Bob Kerrey brought up the famous August 6, 2001 PDB in publicly questioning Rice, he was basically going out on a limb and doing something he pretty much wasn’t supposed to or authorized to do. Pretty remarkable.
On a related note, did you get any corroboration for the story that Ron Suskind tells at the beginning of The One Percent Doctrine, to the effect that Bush’s response when told urgently by a CIA briefer about the threat in the summer of 2001 was “Alright, you’ve covered your ass, now”? Frankly, I can’t recall if it’s in your book as well, and if it is, if the reference is just to Suskind’s book or whether you got independent confirmation?
Just for the record, I did allude to that bit of the book about the Zelikow-Gonzales confrontation in the last paragraph of my intro above.
I have been told by others that Ron Suskind’s account is largely accurate. Certainly that sort of presidential dismissiveness would explain why so little happened after Bush was shown the Aug. 6 PDB.
wow.
You did!
Yeah, I was surprised that more wasn’t made of it at the time. But Kerrey, who has guts, was pretty much breaking the law by reading a classified document out loud like that.
Were all the members of the commission true to the task? Or were some members more dedicated to the investigation than others?
It only reinforces not only this administration’s imcompetence, but their arrogance and ingnorance also.
I would say that few Medal of Honor winners fit the definition of “shrinking violet”
But Kommander Guy did see WTC 1 (North Tower) hit by the first hijacked plane. Of course only the Naudet Brothers had video of that attack. But perhaps, the 4th Branch of Government has a special teevee network.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRA…..se.04.html
philip shenon at 28 says in part–”I think one big disclosure in my book is how the commission overlooked a vast archives of intelligence about terrorism and Al Qaeda in particular at the NSA, the eavesdropping agency. I have heard that some Congressional staffers are wondering whether someone shouldn’t go back into the NSA and take a look. (When the commission made an 11th-hour visit to the NSA in 2004, it discovered some explosive stuff, but it was too late to do more.)”
excuuuuuuuuuse me???
you said that so non-chalantly(sp)…….huh?
they didn’t go to the NSA?
i am not believing what i am hearing.
the huge raging elephant in the room and they didn’t even bother to go look?
the department that was in charge of detecting the spawning and activities of the ’terrorists’?
after the NSA was building on all levels before and after 911, because of 911, and they didn’t look there?
now i am in different position than i just was.
that is like researching a book about a president and not visiting the national archives.
please explain this.
Some of the commissioners were very involved in the investigation, even though all of them had other jobs. Jamie Gorelick, one of the Democrats, spent about half of her workday on commission business and was well respected by the Republicans. Some of the other commissioners barely showed their faces at the commission’s offices.
Any chance we’ll eventually see more of the documents Gonzales refused to turn over to the commission? The idea that Bass had to memorize memos and rush back to type them quickly before he forget indicates there may be more information in files somewhere, unless they shredded or deleted them…
unlike certain recent recipients of the Medal of Freedom, eh not?
I take it this is sarcastic. I wasn’t clear or emphatic enough. As the book explains at p. 300, Kerrey was almost certainly breaking the law in full public view in revealing classified information when he read the most explosive part of the August 6, 2001 PDB at the hearing with Rice. Still wanna be sarcastic?
can you tell us which ones “worked from home”?
philip at 70–”
Dr. Zelikow said that there were no phone logs in the office. (His staff says otherwise.) He also says that he never gave an order to his secretary to stop keeping a log of White House calls. I believe he uses the word “hype” in describing a lot of my book. You can find the video at the Democracy Now website.”
oh, i wouldn’t call that criticism, just a little misunderstanding of events. not-so-total-recall. : )
thanks.
I’ve got to sign off in order to convince two young wildmen (a.k.a. my children) that it makes a lot more sense right now to eat dinner than to wrestle.
Thanks a lot Philip and to everyone who participated!
Yup. In truth, I’m surprised that my book hasn’t prompted more attention to this. It’s amazing. The NSA has the government’s biggest archives of raw intelligence on terrorism, and the 9/11 commission largely ignored its library until the final weeks of the investigation. And only becuase one valiant staff member insisted on it. She was so worried about what was being missed that she took on the job of trying to read it all herself…
Governor James Thompson, one of the Republicans, had almost nothing to do with the commission for the first year of its existence. He was tied up with the Conrad Black scandal in Chicago (he was chairman of Black’s auding board)….
Thanks Jeff. Good luck with your wildmen.
No, not at all. I was surprised by that information.
and wondered, too, if it indicated perhaps kid gloves were being used. I now realize Mr. Shenon was referring to his reading classified information at the hearing.
I apologize if I sounded sarcastic.
I’m not sure how we’ll see any more of those documents, unless someone wants to set up another 9/11 commission, and I’m not hearing that as a serious idea.
This book sure got a nice mention in the NYTIMES today, lots of ink … maybe you can rekindle some outrage…
philip at 93-
wow, i wonder if that ’valiant’ staff member realizes how valiant she is…..if you know her, thank her. i’d like to think many of us would do the same thing, but don’t know if we would have.
i’ll be reading your book as soon as it arrives, thank you.
(elliot-i was ready to tackle, glad you handled it so graciously)
Yeah, that was very nice review. The book has gotten flattering reviews everywhere, I’m pleased to say. (Except the Washington Post; we NYTers can never please them!)
Yes, soon as the semester ends, you’re at the top of my summer break reading list … everything I’ve seen says this is a must read book… congratulations!
i appreciate it.
philip-are you scheduled to be on the diane rehm show?
Did you realize from the start that you’d end up writing a fuller account (i.e. a book) when you first got the assignment?
philip do you explore what ’truths’ weren’t discovered?
what are your compelling questions having finished writing and still discussing the issue?
Actually I did Diane Rehm (and Terry Gross) a few weeks ago. I know you can find the recordings through their free websites on NPR.org.
I thought I had a good book from the start, if only because I knew I’d have plenty of fresh material from the commission’s staff. During the investigation, the staff was barred from speaking to reporters; they were threatened with firing if they did. After the commission went out of business, the staff was suddenly available to me. And they had great stories.
what i am asking is—what would you like to see ’pushed’ about all of this? we are many hands, and many mouths……
I’ll most certainly be getting this book immediately.
I had already read a bit on the subject in David Ray Griffin’s book, but I look forward to reading your book to get more detail.
In your opinion sir, was the content of final Report of the Commission essentially accurate or in accurate?
Where to start? I’d like to know much more about Saudi involvement with Al Qaeda (and certainly with the two hijackers who lived in the open in San Diego before 9/11). And I’d certainly like to know what else is hidden at the NSA.
philip at 107–oh no!!!! i missed it when i was out of town!!!!!
well, good on you, i hope it went well.
i will listen to them. and pass on the links. thanks.
I understand Dr. Griffin and a lot of his supporters are critics of my book, so perhaps you won’t like my work! As to the 9/11 commission report, I do think that — in many ways — it remains the definitive account of 9/11, certainly on the events of that day. But it is clear that the commission missed a lot of evidence. And its failure to make any judgements about the failings of individuals means that those individuals can continue on with their government careers, making the same disastrous mistakes.
I’m curious about the absence of the meeting between Tenet-Cofer Black and Rice in early July where the DDCIA briefed her regarding all the evidence of an imminent Al Qaida attack on American targets that summer.
When told of this briefing I understand that members of the Commission felt that Zelikow had withheld the information from them.
Would that not suggest that Zelikow intentionally withheld facts to avoid implicating Rice with malfeasance?
Also, who precisely ordered the Italian Spada ground-to-air missile batteries and round-the-clock fighter cordon around the USS Enterprise at the Genoa Group of Eight Summit?
thanks. i’m a huge fan of both diane rehm’s and terry gross’s. but i gotta say, it was my apperance on the “daily show” that was the big news for any of my relatives under the age of 40.
philip at 111—the more you say in this department the more the firepups will help dig up. we each have a focus of interest.
your first point is one i have been very interested in…
this is a vast community of world-wide diggers. the good kind. no fact goes unturned around here.
any more?
Well, this has been a fascinating discussion. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer our questions. I’ll have to watch the clip from The Daily Show :)
And thanks, too, to Mr. Lomonaco for hosting the book salon.
This was a very confusing story. It first appeared in Bob Woodward’s latest book, suggesting that Rice had brushed off warnings given to her by Tenet and Black and that no one had told the 9/11 commission about the White House meeting. The truth seems to be that the 9/11 commission was told about the meeting and that it was just one more example of how the White House was warned repeatedly of terrorist threats that summer. The warning given to Rice at that meeting wasn’t much more dire than all the other warnings given to her during that period. They were ALL dire.
Wow, that’s quite an offer. Send me an email after the chat and I’ll add to it…
Folks, it’s been a great pleasure. Your questions were terrific, and I’m impressed that so many people were willing to give up hours of their Saturday afternoon to do this. If I can answer any more questions, please contact me at shenon.books AT gmail dot com Phil Shenon
Don’t know that I would call myself a “supporter” of Dr. Griffin’s either. His last book was quite good ins some areas, and fairly weak in others, I thought. Was expecting a bit better.
I’m just always in search of more information.
Thank you for being here today.
No, my apologies for misreading it.
My pleasure.
You portray Zelikow as concerned for civil rights. Is that by the standards of Scott Horton, say, or when compared to others in the Bush administration?
Want to totally encourage Philip Shenon to dig into the Saudi relationship with al-Qaeda — and all the other threads related to that available to be pulled. That’s why I asked about getting the financal aspect of it on the public record.
There is evidence that Loyal Bushie Prince Bandar helped finance the hijackers. Or who would have thought that Saudi Arabia was was “following with precision” the hijackers. I wonder why? But US officials are to blame for the WTC attacks.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/018657.php
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/U…..i.fbi.911/
Folks, I apologize, but I’ve gotta run. Again, please feel free to email any other questions to me. I can now have a peaceful night knowing that Jeff and Elliot have patched up their differences! Enjoy the weekend.
deep in epu-land, but what the heck…
even if Addington had accepted this view, i would still object – although i do support a version of the idea that conscience sometimes necessitates breaking the law by all citizens, not just the president.
but the description here sounds like a twisted version of the tradition of law breaking (when dire need and conscience require) as practiced, for example, by the berrigan brothers. they broke the law by breaking into draft offices and burning records – but then they waited for the police to arrive so that they could be arrested. they willingly accepted years of imprisonment for their actions. in this way, while they did indeed break the law, they also showed their respect for the rule of law.
i think in the case of a president breaking the law – or acting “extra-constitutionally” as you say in the case of emergency – it would require, at the very least, 1) the actions be taken openly and honestly without any attempt at subterfuge and 2) that as a result of the actions taken, the president would voluntarily resign and present himself/herself for arrest so that the public, via the courts, could pass judgment.
anything less strikes me as an attempt to avoid both the constitutional limitations placed on the presidency and accountability for acting outside those limitations.
that we are so far removed from even this is, imo, a tragedy.
I agree with the gist of this, with a couple of qualifications. In fact, Richard Posner takes this line about extra-constitutional action in an emergency by the executives and likens it to a form of civil disobedience. That strikes me as wrong because it is not about acting in the name of justice when the law fails to embody it, as was the case with the judgments and actions of MLK or the Berrigans, I take it. Perhaps it would be better to liken the kind of extra-constitutional action of the executive as a kind of revolutionary action, but I’m not sure. In any case, though, whether the actions are taken openly and honestly or not, they need to be openly and honestly, i.e. publicly, acknowledged as soon as possible. There we agree entirely. On your 2), I would say that that is certainly one route. But I’m not sure resignation is a requisite, though it might be. Or at least an offer to resign. It’s an interesting idea.
And I’m happy to call acting extra-constitutionally breaking the law. I meant not to fudge about that.