Remember those non-permanent permanent bases in Iraq? They’re looking a lot more like permanently permanent bases these days.
Yesterday, the Guardian published details of the “Secret US plan for military future in Iraq” negotiated by Ambassador “UmUmUm” Crocker and Prime Minister Maliki – a plan that “authorises the US to "conduct military operations in Iraq and to detain individuals when necessary for imperative reasons of security" without time limit.”
The draft strategic framework agreement between the US and Iraqi governments, dated March 7 and marked "secret" and "sensitive", is intended to replace the existing UN mandate and authorises the US to "conduct military operations in Iraq and to detain individuals when necessary for imperative reasons of security" without time limit.
The authorisation is described as "temporary" and the agreement says the US "does not desire permanent bases or a permanent military presence in Iraq". But the absence of a time limit or restrictions on the US and other coalition forces – including the British – in the country means it is likely to be strongly opposed in Iraq and the US.
While Crocker claimed in yesterday’s hearings that the agreement would need approval by the Iraqi Parliament, it’s already clear that that body will not approve this arrangement, and there is concern in Iraq since Maliki ignored the Iraqi constitution in December 2007 to extend the UN mandate:
The move violated both the Iraqi constitution and a law passed earlier this year by the Iraqi parliament — the only body directly elected by all those purple-finger-waving Iraqis in 2005 — and it defied the will of around 80 percent of the Iraqi population.
Earlier in the week, a group representing a majority of lawmakers in Iraq’s parliament — a group made up of Sunni, Shiite and secular leaders — sent a letter to the Security Council, a rough translation of which reads: "We reject in the strongest possible terms the unconditional renewal of the mandate and ask for clear mechanisms to obligate all foreign troops to completely withdrawal from Iraq according to an announced timetable."
Those objections had no impact – and apparently the opposition of members of the US Senate to Bush’s plans to sign the agreement without Senate approval will also be ignored:
So, in true American democratic style, they’ve taken to calling what any reasonable person would consider a long-term security treaty a "co-operation agreement," saying that it’s the equivalent of the kind of non-binding "status of forces" deals the U.S. has with hundreds of countries around the world. As such, the two leaders argue, the legislature has no say in the matter.
The administration is also apparently covering up the fact that the agreement will bind future adminstrations to the Bush McCain Forever War. As TomDispatch noted of the secret agreement:
It will legally entrench American forces on those mega-bases for years to come. In a recent op-ed in the Washington Post, Secretary of Defense Gates and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice denied that the administration was trying to bind a future president to Bush’s Iraq policies. ("In short, nothing to be negotiated in the coming months will tie the hands of the next commander in chief, whomever he or she may be.") This, however, is obviously not the case. The agreement is also being carefully constructed to skirt the status of a "treaty," so that it will not have to be submitted to the Senate for ratification. All of this, in the grand tradition of Vice President Cheney, might be thought of as the Bush administration’s embunkerment policy in Iraq.
Of course, Crocker, Bush and friends all claim that those bases are not “permanent,” a very suspicious claim since plans for permanent bases were disclosed in 2003 and :
Just the other day, the President again told Fox News, "We won’t have permanent bases… [but] I do believe it is in our interests and the interests of the Iraqi people that we do enter into an agreement on how we are going to conduct ourselves over the next years." Dana Perino, White House press spokesperson, offered further clarification by indicating that we do not actually have permanent bases on Planet Earth, even in Korea more than half a century later. "I’m not aware," she said, "of any place in the world — where we have a base — that they are asking us to leave. And if they did, we would probably leave." (She made a singular exception for Guantanamo.)
Consider this a philosophic position. Evidently, we don’t do permanent because all things are evanescent; everything must end.
Or as Howie Klein wrote in 2006:
Is there an argument over what "permanent" means? If Bush claims at some point that "permanent" means "until the Rapture or Armageddon" or whatever claptrap governs these fruitcakes lives, maybe he can wriggle out from under this– at least in the minds of the 29% of Americans who still think believe he’s doing a good job. This weekend the NY TIMES reported that Bush’s highly-publicized "strategy session," which begins today, will put forward a plan to keep U.S. troops in Iraq "for decades to come." I guess there could be an argument about the meaning of "permanent" around that.
Not only do those bases look mighty permanent, we’ve just begun building a new one:
And only in the last weeks, reports have emerged on the latest U.S. base under construction, uniquely being built on a key oil-exporting platform in the waters off the southern Iraqi port of Basra and meant for the U.S. Navy and allies. Such a base gives meaning to this passage in the Bush/Maliki declaration: "Providing security assurances and commitments to the Republic of Iraq to deter foreign aggression against Iraq that violates its sovereignty and integrity of its territories, waters, or airspace."
As the British Telegraph described this multi-million dollar project: "The US-led coalition is building a permanent security base on Iraq’s oil pumping platforms in the Gulf to act as the ‘nerve centre’ of efforts to protect the country’s most vital strategic asset." Chip Cummins of the Wall Street Journal summed up the project this way in a piece headlined, "U.S. Digs In to Guard Iraq Oil Exports — Long-Term Presence Planned at Persian Gulf Terminals Viewed as Vulnerable": "[T]he new construction suggests that one footprint of U.S. military power in Iraq isn’t shrinking anytime soon: American officials are girding for an open-ended commitment to protect the country’s oil industry."
While many questions have been asked of Crocker and Petraeus over the past two days, the big question will be whether the members of Congress will take stronger actions to prevent the signing of such an “open-ended commitment” which infringes on their constitutional powers since they did not when the Iraqi Constitution was being decimated.
Meanwhile in Iraq, US airstrikes continue to bomb civilian locations in Baghad’s Sadr City which is still under curfew:
“We are fed up with the fighting and deteriorated public services since 25 March. There is no water, no electricity, and food and vegetables are hard to get, while prices are soaring,” said Jamal Hussein Nasser, a Sadr City resident who fled with his 15-member family to nearby Shaab area.
And Al Sadr again makes clear his call to end the occupation, inviting:
"the government of Iraq, if it exists" to change course and protect the people from the bombings and the American militias and the "companies" behind which they hide, and to demand the withdrawal of the occupation forces or at least a schedule for their withdrawal, and turn their attention to providing services for the people.
His invitation is now apparently joined by the Basra-based Sunni The Council of Arab Tribes of the South:
The statement, issued on the fifth anniversary of the entry of the foreign troops, said: "On the eve of this landmark day, we say, on behalf of all Iraqis: ‘Enough with the occupation, you occupiers. Depart far away, because you bring with you nothing but evil and terror, and enough of the foreign interventions and the messages of killing and destruction exchanged between the parties to foreign struggles’.
Will our Senate, will we, finally also say "Enough with the occupation?"
Video: last year’s Bases are Loaded on the "nonpermanent" permanent bases.
Related posts:





Spotlight








Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

it would seem as though whoever goes to visit this embasy in Iraq comes back saying;
“well, we might have to be there a while”
it is supposedly the size of the vatican
Now I know where Donald Rumsfeld has been since he retired.
Or a bit bigger, maybe. Certainly nothing to “use up and throw away.”
Permanent bases…yeah, that’s the ticket…Why the surprise for goodness sakes…oh, yeah, for goodness sake’s….
There is nothing new here…they always planned this….I don’t get it….why wonder why?
They are not leaving. “We” who have no say, have no say!!! Geez!!! How much frikkin’ evidence of their intentions do we need??????
What do we need? A frikkin’ brick on our heads??? I give the F up.
Great post, Siun. Let’s digg this one, pups!
Evening all!
Since security concerns mean there aren’t photos around of the bases, you have to sorta guess at the scale … but consider this: Balad/Camp Anaconda is 15 square miles.
Why would these agreements be binding on a future president? Nothing from the past seemed to be binding in the eyes of this administration.
I was watching the hearings, on and off, and one of the better exchanges I saw was between Hillary Clinton and Ambassador Crocker:
The reason, of course, is that the US Congress serves only in an advisory capacity to The Decider, while the Iraqi Parliament exerts actual power in their governmental structure.
OK, maybe I’m just being a bit obtuse here tonight but how does Bush signing this agreement in any way bind the next administration to it? The next administration comes in with the signed agreement, submits it to Congress for ratification, it gets voted down or ratified and everyone is off the hook. Or even if they don’t submit for ratification and just say that the agreement is going to be re-opened for negotiation due to “extenuating circumstances.”
Isn’t that what happened with Kyoto? Haven’t there been other treaties/agreements negotiated by one admin that have been abrogated by the next?
What am I missing here?
I’ve come to the sad conclusion that Bushco is way smarter than us. Unless we come up with something concrete, we are toast. Please, prove me wrong….
What is it gonna take???
Again with the underlings testifying!
Where is Rice?
Where is Gates?
The Congress should reject further appearances by the field commander and chief of station.
I guess we should all call, fax, and write Iraqi congress critters and beg them not to pass this bill!
People can turn out in numbers on the streets against China…but when our government Torture people and spies on people…frikkin’ crickets…
I feel sick.
Is there anyone who can LEAD a full-on protest against this freaking war in Iraq? As someone (sorry, I forgot who) mentioned last thread, if San Franciscans can protest against China vs. Tibet like they did for 100 deaths, why aren’t we having massive rallies against USA vs. Iraq for close to one million deaths?
I am sick at what has happened to our country, and I’m not sure that January 20th is soon enough to fix it.
That is my point!!
I can just hear Bush now.. it’s a treat, not a treaty.
I hate to feel f’ed.
I could lead it, but it’d get violent. I grew up in Berkeley and SF in the 60s and 70s and when we protested the war, we Tore. It. Up.
As much as I’d like to think non-violent protest can be effective, I do not believe it can. The tide went against the war in part because of violent protests.
TSF
Did you join the protest today? If so, tell all.
The bases in Iraq were always meant to be permanent. No f’ing surprise.
oops – sorry, didn’t mean to divert the thread
Ah but Peterr … note that Crocker says:
This is the process the Iraqi Parliament objected to since they did not approve of the extension of the UN mandate.
They are powerless and it seems our Senate is as well? or choses to be?
not a diversion … and worth discussing
Bases are loaded youtube is a very good one. I share it with folks often and they thank me for it.
Is there a way to have a sister to sister/brother to brother alliance between regular folks in Iraq and America so they know how we feel? The Red Crescent is good, I know, but I’d like to have a family I can know and help.
The bush criminal enterprise doesn’t give a rats behind about the brown people. For that matter they couldn’t care less about American Soldiers either. Money and power is what the care about.
Exactly, why would they build “permanent bases”, if they weren’t building “permanent bases”….come on!!! Geez!!! Or, the largest embassy EVER!! Geez…are people unconscious?????
The current post @ gorillasguides:
IRAQ: Dozens of families flee clashes in Sadr City
there’s an awful lot of effort going into an awful lot of bases.
Katie Couric ought to be donating 3/4 of her salary to Iraqis too, now that she’ll probably taking over for Larry King.
“awful bases”
And WhyTF does congress keep approving the expenditures?
Eureka … I wanted to use it again since it’s the best info I’ve found on the bases.
LooHoo – one way to help is to support Islamic Relief orphan program. IR is highly reputable (see the Charity Navigator ratings) and really needs help helping kids.
The congressional passage of the supplementals is pretty maddening since they always include language saying no funds can be spent on permanent bases yet clearly that is what is being done … and no one seems willing to question it.
Ding!
I thought he still had a desk at the pentagon
Eventually the saying “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” is going to become operative and the Sunnis and the Shias are going to combine to fight us, I think. If we stay much longer our troops will be running for their lives.
Ex-freaking-SCUSE ME??? This is the “democracy” that W wants to slop all over the Mideast? WTF???
No one is going to be left in Iraq but slaves….
How obvious.
Spit.
And us…
imo, they want it both ways – they want credit for being against the war, without, you know, actually being against the war.
This one I think I know – I think Congress has been told or at least recognizes that Little Boots is psychotic enough that if the funding is cut then he will actually let it run out totally and would allow the troops on the ground to run out of food, ammunition, whatever just so he could blame the Democrats in Congress and say “See, I told ya they couldn’t be trusted.”
They are not in the least in touch with America.
Good to hear stipulations like this exist.. Maybe this will be where/how congress backs out of the treat.
And if it’s not clear to Crockofshit, WhoTF is it clear to. Any if nobody knows WTF is going on, why are we there?
here’s what we have to do in order to reconcile the damage and thieving this administration has visited on the middle east;
we must give these bases and embassy to the Iraqi’s as a gift, we will have to pay for them with those corporations who enjoyed profit from the endeavor (read, halibut)
we must allow for international criminal prosecution of those that manufactured data to initiate unprovoked war
we must seize all the assets of these war criminals and return those assets to the coffers whence they were taken
we must revoke any agreements made by these criminals that have not been submitted to the other branches of government for approval
Congressman Robert Wexler asks “For what?“
Sadr makes precisely that argument in his latest statement cancelling the mass march for fear that his followers would be attacked:
“Fitna” means “an all-encompassing word referring to schism, secession, upheaval and anarchy at once. It is often used to refer to civil war, “
Permanent bases, paid for with taxpayer money and the blood of American soldiers, built without Congressional oversight,to guarantee Exxon et al profits, with no timetable.
Great fucking energy policy advisers he’s got.Cheney must be giddy at the prospects of getting out of office and finishing his time out with Halliburton. s
Someone is going to clean up on this deal and I have a dollar says Cheney has an old ICBM missile solo he is going to spend the rest of his life paying a crew of illegal aliens minimum wage, under the table, to dump cash into with a wheelbarrow 24/7.
I do think that’s what they are afraid of. Why aren’t they using every possible means to educate the public? Why aren’t they calling Bushco on the “game”?
A little strength and leadership is what America is looking for.
The powerful do it because they can.
Can you how Iran feels being next door to huge installations belonging to a country which indulges in ‘preventive war’?
I would imagine that they are working full-time on getting powerful friends, too.
When the first stone gets thrown, it could get awful interesting awful fast.
Crocker was supposed to be a decent man, but he’s a lying scumbag. Bush ruins everyone who gets near him.
Petraeus might as well be a cheerleader.
-G
He sure as hell ain’t a quarterback.
PNAC
2000 election
Telco spying
9/11
Patriot ACT
2003 Invasion of Iraq
Torture memos
4000 plus deaths
Unitary Executive
Come on…………….
If you hadn’t been paying attention to the shit that is going on for the last few years, would you believe that a president/administration were capable of doing such a thing? Even if the Speaker of the House and all the Dems stood up on the floor of the Congress, both houses, and proclaimed that this was happening, do you think folks would actually believe it? Given the current make-up of the TradMed?
I think there are a lot of folks in DC hoping and praying that the clock runs out on this admin before even more evil is done. I think they are doing what they can around the edges and praying that no one provokes the situation further.
YMMV
perfect.
That’s what I heard; can you imagine that it actually happened and is not reported far and wide……….. the ‘greatest Nation’s’ ambassador is speechless.
permanent bases to protect our permanent interest in iraqi oil
Fascinating video, Siun.
WaPo coverage of most recent fighting. 5 more US soldiers killed; dozens of Iraqis. A set of photos of wounded kids.
Kinda makes you wish Spkr Pelosi had thought her declaration of amnesty for Shrub through a little more carefully, doesn’t it?
Wexler didn’t get an answer, did he? Betrayus talked about brigades and other military mumbo jumbo. Then Wexler thanked him. WTMF are the democrats doing?
I think that the corporate media will treat this on an “everybody knew this, it’s old news, who cares?” basis.
Certainly the precdents to this approach are already set. That was the reaction to previouis reports and leaks verifying that the war was all about oil and stupid pre-20th century power projection games.
It is an absurd stance, of course. One year the corporate media reacts with outrage at such scandalous claims of bad intent by Cheney-Bush. Then when the charges are borne out they yawn in their jaded way, and compplacently sneear that ‘everyone knew.’
Also I think the GOP and corporate media will try to conflate the de fact acquisition of natural resource and power projection colony run by the military with the terrorist threat. So there will be a fear factor as well.
Nada.
;(
The little sh*ts:Gestapo
Yeah, I caught Crocker’s equivocation. As for your question, I don’t know, but I liked the way Clinton made it clear that it certainly looks like the Iraqis have more of a say in spending US funds than the US Congress.
Again, I’m sure you’re right.
U.S. President George W. Bush’s most senior advisers approved “enhanced interrogation techniques”
Since when do any of them have the authority to approve interrogation techniques? Isn’t anything against the Geneva Convention illegal?
I’m very glad Senator Clinton is pushing on the issue of the agreement but her suggestion that Iraqis have more power is very problematic. We have installed a puppet government who follow orders … and otherwise we ignore both the Parliament and the people of Iraq.
I would like to know if there’s a way for citizens to bring charges of war crimes …
well siun, once again, don’t know how you found out what you found, but my friend who works for kbr has been building bases…….the permanent kind, he is a construction superisor.
he is now stationed just north of baghdad. building big.
they entice all of their employees to take their ’off’ time they get every six months in europe, wherever they want, so as not to come back here and tell tales. spend it in europe and asia, you’ll never get the chance again.
he said a lot of pull to not go home.
amazing.
i have a lot going on.
have to go.
will bbl
Not according to Yoo’s tortured logic…!
Aloha, Siun! Another excellent post!
It would be nice to know that for here in the USA too.
Also, I am not a lawyer, so don’t no for sure, but from my reading of Juan Cole, I think that this kind of behavior constitutes a war crime, doesn’t it? Doesn’t international law say you cannot come in and basically take over a country? And we are doing that. Under the cover of protecting the new Iraqi democracy, we are essentially anointing Maliki as our strong man, and offering to protect his government. One would suppose that the October elections might change that. If the Sadrists win, then we would be obligated to protect them. But somehow I doubt things will work out that way.
And the clause that allows us to detain anyone indeterminately, what about that? That walks and talks like a war crime, to me, but as I said, I am no lawyer.
An ultra-Machiavellian might conjecture that the true purpose of Maliki’s attacks on the Sadrists is to provide a cover for delegitimatizing them before the October election, and if possible provoking enough civil disruption to attempt to rig the elections (a la Musharraf). So the idea was not to succeed, but to stir up trouble in preparaton for fixing election.
The long history of this is that our strongman Saddam went bad, and we had to replace him. But, on a pure realpolitik level, Cheney-Bush messed it up bigtime, because they are the ultimate realpolitic bumblers, no matter what self-conceits they hang on to.
On a legal level, they did it in a way that leaves them legitimately open to impeachment, conviction and removal from office, and open to prosecution for several kinds of war crime.
On a slightly less immoral but practical economic and strategic cost-benefit basis, it is a very costly mess. And on a moral level it is unpseakable.
They were rendered quaint by Yoo and Bybee and the rest of the legal mumbo jumbo scumbags.
To the Hague with them all.
-G
With all due respect, I don’t care how Hillary “framed it”.
The fact is that people are dying and she has still not apologized for voting for this and other wars and endless violence.
(I so wanted to support her, too.)
But is it legal? Not in bush world but in reality?
Thanks CTuttle …
Folks – don’t miss our own CTuttle’s work now at Main and Central!
I don’t disagree with your use of puppet government, but there is sign of unity when one considers no oil law has passed. Perhaps there is room for optimism on their part that they will not vote for extended stay or permanent bases.
you have to have a functional Attorney General’s office to really do something about it …
wesgpc … yep
The attacks were clearly designed to both provoke Sadr’s movement and … if Maliki is as nuts as Cheney, destroy his movement. Friends have said that Maliki is so hated by Iraqis, he had nothing to lose.
yep.
In a sense, this is old news, since Cheney-Bush took actions that revealed their true long run plans several months ago. This has been slowly unfolding for awhile, the memo is in that sense ‘old news’ I guess.
But sooner or later, this does need to be shouted from the rooftops to the US public. Unless they already have it figured out and are just waiting to vote out all the scumbags in November (which is a hope).
I do have on question about the post -how on earth can anything these stupid vile wicked bozos do bind any future administration or congress? I just do not see how that is possible without a formal treaty. And that will not happen -neither the Iraqi nor the US legislatures will touch this bucket of Sh*t agreement with a ten foot pole.
good point!
so we do share common feelings with our Iraqi counterparts, huh?
I assume that a new president can disavow any agreement and break it … but we will have to make certain they do. Clearly Bush & Cheney assume they have the ability to bind us to an Iraqi presence for a very long time … and the big question, given all candidates lack of firm promise to remove all residual troops, is will we make them do just that?
Oh, there are many things I wish Clinton had done differently, and many votes I wish she had cast differently. It’s just that yesterday, in the parts of the mindnumbing hearings I sat through, she seemed to be pushing this button rather effectively. On this, I think she was headed in the right direction.
In fact, the actual powerlessness of the Iraqi Parliament works to the advantage of the point she was making. The more Bush says “Look at the great, functioning government in Iraq,” the more problematic it is for Bush to duck giving the Senate a say on this.
The Iraqi government’s executive, if not the whole government, is not an American puppet; it is certainly a US client state whose current executive leadership would not remain in office without a massive US presence. So this is not a “normal” status of forces agreement with an independent state.
Indefinite number of foreign troops, on indefinite assignment, with unreviewable “right” to engage undetermined “enemy” forces throughout the country and to detain any one, under its exclusive control, for an indefinite period of time, without a credible, internationally recognized process to challenge that detention. (Oddly familiar to the powers that John Yoo thinks the American president has, as CinC, in his own country, in time of (unending) war.) The commitment of US resources – which would escalate as US forces responded to predictable attacks on the legitimacy of their continued presence – would be considerably greater than that contemplated by a typical SOFA. The corresponding loss of American goodwill would be comparably great.
That’s not a SOFA. It’s an Occupation Agreement. It violates Iraqi sovereignty on all levels. Any government that accepted it would be deeming itself illegitimate in the eyes of most of its citizens, guaranteeing continuing violent chaos. It’s an attempt to make permanent the president’s claimed authority to occupy Iraq as he sees fit.
No wonder Iraq’s fractured parliament says it wouldn’t approve it. Little wonder Bush claims he doesn’t have to show it to the US Congress, much less get its approval. His snake oil sales having gone down, Mr. Bush seems to be resorting to squatter’s rights abroad and embezzlement at home.
perris, wherever you are—did you see this at Think Progress:
“National Lawyers Guild calls for Yoo’s disbarment”
I love the last graph:
I’m way past ready for that to happen.
i certainly hope so.
In America with the passage of the MCA, we’ve basically said it was legal. However, as Phillipe Sand had pointed out in his Vanity Fair article, it actually empowers the Hague to hold the perpetrators accountable to the ICC, yet, they must be detained outside the USA…!
Road trip!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But, the idea of destroying the Sadrist movement is nuts. It is a longstanding social movement with a wide popular base. I opposed and survived Saddam. I survived the assissination of Sadr’s father.
I absolutely do not believe that the Sadrist movement can be destroyed in any meaningful sense. I doubt getting rid of Sadr could do that -though that would set the state for maximum confusion and social disaster potential in the country.
The idea would be to disrupt things enough to allow voter supression and intimidation tactics that would preserve Maliki’s very fractured minority government to survive, and provide a flimsy cover for the Bush II bogus Demcoracy Crusade. Then Cheney Bush could have their strong man and their idiotic cover story both, and be able to announce they were acting legitimately, while the rest of the world booed, hissed, hated and disrespected them to the max.
perhaps there could be a bit of extraordinary rendition—to the Hague?
It’s not so much a question of legal power as setting a precedent.
Suppose Pres Obama wakes up on Jan 21, 2009, calls Baghdad, and says “Never mind all those things Bush promised you. He didn’t have the power to make those promises, and I’m not going to be bound by them.” Legally, he could probably make that stick.
The next time that new president wants to make some kind of agreement with a foreign country, however, that country’s leader is going to be quite justified in asking “Sure, you say this now — but what happens down the road? Look what you said to Iraq . . .”
Given all the worldwide anger over Bush, overturning these decisions might be greeted with cheers. Even so, it will make every future agreement that isn’t voted on by the Senate harder to reach.]
It’s far, far better to work like hell to see that this agreement is never concluded in the first place — and it’s going to take more spine from the US Senate than we have seen to date.
I would temper that ‘any agreement’, Siun! Any Executive order or agreement, but, not any agreement that has already been ratified by the Senate…!
“squatter’s rights abroad”
That is a good way to put it.
That positively drips with sheer delicious irony, Rev! ;-)
Ordinarily a SOFA is a binding agreement that the next president would have to renegotiate with the Iraqis. The irony is that the president has greater disagreements with his own legislature than he does with the host government.
The Senate might throw a monkey wrench into Mr. Bush’s gear works by resolving that it objects to any such agreement that lacks its approval; more likely, given Lieberman and other Quislings in the Senate, the House could resolve that it would not fund the agreement’s commitments without significant changes.
The point would be to put Iraq on notice that it would be unwise to rely on the “agreement”, while giving notice to the president that it legally and politically disagrees with his claim that he needn’t submit it to the Senate. The matter needn’t be resolved by the S.Ct., since a new president (and Congress) would be installed before that could take place.
The bottom line is that if Mr. Bush continues to drive drunk his last several months in office, it’s up to Congress to take away his keys.
The US doesn’t have to destroy al Sadr — all it needs to do is to create conditions in which al-Sadr’s reactions allow al-Maliki to disqualify Sadrist candidates from running in the elections — that’s what al-Maliki has threatened to do if al Sadr doesn’t disband his militias, which of course, he won’t do.
So the goal is disenfranchisement, done the same way the Iranians just kept “reform” candidates off the ballot. From the US perspective, it’s absolutely critical that the elections not result in a majority that has as it’s agenda the removal of US forces. So keeping these guys from winning the elections, by keeping them off the ballot is, I think, what this is about. The is pure Cheney, and Petraeus goes along because taking on armed militias that challenge the government militarily is part of his mandate.
This is an excellent point. Whatever moral high ground we might have had is gone. It is sort of what you would tell a child: Well if you didn’t want to get dirty maybe you shouldn’t have played in the mud.
Lets see we have torture that’s not torture
Permanent that’s not permanent
A treaty that’s not a treaty
I don’t know. I don’t have it quite yet but I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that I think there may be a pattern here.
if you want to bind the US government in future administrations, you write a treaty and have the Senate ratify it. It’s remains the “supreme law of the land” until repealed by Congress.
i am such a fan of the NLG – good for them for saying what we are thinking.
What does the Senate need to do to repudiate an agreement that the executive says is none of their business? So, not sure I understand what you mean by stopping it. The Senate passes a resultion that says “This is total BS”?
As for future reliabiltiy costs to US of Obama reworking everything from scratch -I say that is a feature not a bug. The US must change certain approaches and attitudes towards foreign policy because the Cheney Bush approach will produce nothing but disaster. If backdoor, secret executive agreements harder to reach, then I say good.
Right now we are teetering on lawlessness and moving back hundreds of years in terms of international law. Cheney Bush did a lot to throw the most important and significant treaty commitments we have into doubt -regarding international law, war, human rights, weapons of mass destruction, all sorts of very big deal things. Everything needs a fresh start, and the costs of not doing that are very high, in my opinion.
As a devout BoSox fan, I would like to thank you for that most excellent post this morn…! 8-)
yes, I agree.
Spellcheck changed ‘It’ to ‘I’ in my comment somehow. So I was not claiming to be the Sadr movement -just want to make that perfectly clear.
well said.
i don’t know… in the last 6 years i’ve been at multiple protests with hundreds of thousands of people. and many, many smaller ones – even vigils with just 2-3 people. for a while it made sense to me because we were trying to get people to reconsider their support for the war. now they have done so, but very few want to do much about it.
for awhile i thought that changing congress would make the difference – but we’ve seen how that turned out.
i don’t know what comes next.
and don’t tell me a new president is the answer when the only ones we have on offer haven’t done anything to end either the war or the torture.
didn’t mean to sound angry at anyone here… it’s just frustration with the whole mess and not seeing a way through.
They could, but, highly doubtful with the current batch of Senators… Basically we have to wait out the clock and then repudiate it with a new EO by a Dem Prez… If it’s McClueless, all bets are off…!
and don’t tell me a new president is the answer when the only ones we have on offer haven’t done anything to end either the war or the torture.
Thank you for saying that… I bears repeating.
You sound as sad as I am.
{{{{{selise}}}}}
It bears repeating.
There goes Kindasleazy’s VP aspirations out the window.
Thankfully.
Ashcroft new Bushco was engaging in lawlessness.
Bush thinks that some teary medals ceremonies and some cash tossed around Africa are going to save him.
-G
Knew…
-G
thanks angie – just hit a bad spot the last few days. i think it was the yoo memo.
Wonderful news!!
Condiliar has been on camera contradicting herself far too often for anyone to take her seriously.
Heh, not in the Goopers’ eyes, it would be a badge of honor…!
The way through is by finding more Donna Edwards’, Darcy Burners, Eric Massas, etc. As Christy keeps reminding us this is a marathon not a sprint. We need to keep priming the pump with great progressives who will eventually move the agenda in the right direction.
Neither of the dems will be the candidates we want. We will have to push them to do the right thing. We have our work cut out for us, but given the options, I’ll take the work.
(((angie)))
i hope your sadness lifts soon.
You folks probably have this all figured out alreday, so don’t make fun of me for being slow.
But I think it is very clear that the weird confusion and conflations we have been hearing from on high regarding the Iraqi factions are part of this program. The idea is to confuse up the public mind to the max on what is going on in Iraq. In the US public mind there is only one legitimate faction in Iraq and that is the Dawa and ISCI, and it will stay that way as long as those two factions will play ball with us on the main thing. And as other commenters have pointed out, playing ball consists of willingess to tolerate permanent bases, and giving US corporations dibs on the oil.
There will be no public recognition of other factions with legitimate goals -they will all be terrorists and insurgents for Iran and Al Qaeda.
This line is a complete fantasy, and it is such an incoherent fantasy that it is difficult to spin a coherent storyline that can be used as a cover.
Anyway, in terms of public opinion, and important countermove will be to attack the lies about the Sunni tribes and Sadrist movement. There must be very hard pushback against the McSame McCain, Lieberman, and such like lies and conflations about the factions in Iraq.
The Cheney Bush scheme is absurd and disastrous and completely counter to reality, which one would hope the forces of good could use to their own advantage. The Cheney Bush scheme will fail, there is no doubt about that, the question is, can theamount of blood and treasure wasted (Iraqi and US) be minimized before he inevitable failure arrives.
Their scheme also assume the Kurd vs. Arab Iraq problems will not blow up, which I think is doubtful. Isn’t time running short to find a deal for Kirkuk?
I absolutely love “Kindasleazy” – that is just too good. :)
There are two basic issues: What’s needed internally for an executive to bind his or her government to an international agreement? Sometimes that’s individualized Senate approval, passed by a two-thirds majority; other times, it’s just the word of the president. Analogously, there are statutes passed by Congress and presidential Executive Orders; both are binding laws.
The other issue is what does it take to persuade a foreign state that an agreement it proposes to enter into with us is binding on both parties? While a foreign state is on notice that it should do its own legal research and evaluate that for itself, it’s also dependent on what the President says as well as by precedent.
That’s why I think it’s vital, if Bush pursues this – Cheney regards it as vital, so he will – for Congress to put Iraq on notice that there is a significant domestic dispute over the president’s authority in this instance.
I would agree, Peterr, but what if congress doesn’t get to vote on this, which it looks like they won’t? Everyone in the world knows that W does not represent America, and that everything and anything he signed is worthless.
If Pelosi can’t see that this is starting to look like at least an Impeachment Inquiry is a worthwhile effort, then she needs, nay, deserves to be unemployed next January.
Really, what else does it take? Glorious Leader getting a knobber on the Capitol Mall?
i think what howie is doing with blue america is great. but i don’t see that as sufficient – necessary yes, but not even close to sufficient. there’s just too much money on the other side for a top down approach to work. imo, we need a change within ourselves and our culture – what does it mean to be a citizen?
Well, It is heartening to see Speirs taking over Lantos’ old seat!
The senate has all kinds to tools they could use, if they so choose:
Refuse to fund those portions that require funding.
Refuse to confirm Dept of State and Dept of Defense appointments that require confirmation.
Refuse to promote flag officers whose commissions require Congressional approval.
Of course, they’ve been so busy keeping their powder dry that they seem to have forgotten where they stored it.
(Sorry for the dropping in and out, but I’ve got a little one who just does NOT want to go to bed tonight. “Daddy . . .”)
Just like Delay, Hastert, and Newt!
It’s a 30 year plan. Starts in 2nd or 3rd grade with the teaching of Civics and critical thinking.
Short term, we have to make the most of our leverage – it’s what we’re doing here. or beginning to do here.
The more I think about it, a very vigorous public pushback is needed against the McSame McCain and Lieberman lies about internal factions inside Iraq.
If the public buys the Maliki=civilized democratic Iraq line, then the terrorist fear factor, and ‘humantiarian crisis if we leave’ guilt factor and the ‘Dr Evil Iran’ fear factor can all be used as a cover for de facto acquistion of Iraq as a militarily run energy resource slave colony.
So, since I am not a Senator, what I wonder is what can citizens do to counter the BS propaganda coming from the administration big shots about the nature of the large political factions operating inside Iraq, and nature of the political disagreements there.
As always, thank you Siun, and all you fine fellow firedogs for this discussion tonight.
i think you’re right. and i am in no way (make that no fucking way) advocating for giving up.
but the civics and critical thinking i see kids being taught now-a-days is far, far worse than what i got (which was severely flawed).
the trajectory does not reassure.
Silly me.
Yup, yup, yup. It’s called politics. Cheney always plays them it’s a street fight and only one party gets to go home when it’s over. I’d call it a manhunt; time for the Democrats to get the hounds.
That’s why it’s so important for us to read Iraqi sources … and share them as widely as possible.
The latest lie … repeated ad nauseum … by Petraeus and Crocker the last two days is the Sadr is backed by Iran. That’s something we can keep pushing back on …
Yes, this is very much caveat emptor. An agreement without Congressional approval in the last months of a deeply unpopular and discredited President with a deeply unpopular and discredited Iraqi Prime Minster means and should mean squat.
Got it from someone else at the Lake a while ago; I could only wish to be that clever.
But it is most excellent!
I had a tough time finding simple links backing up my argument on that point today.
If you think the world has changed lots, get a load of this story from Mother Jones.
It’s a woman who sews robes for the KKK. Listen to the audio. I cannot believe I live in the same country as this woman.
More of those ‘cowardly Democrats’ that the GOP likes to smear.
Tom Lantos the Nazi fighter took the seat of Leo Ryan who was the only Congressman ever killed in the line of duty and his seat goes back to Ryan’s assistant Speier who was gravely injured in the same shooting that killed Ryan.
You know, cut and run chicken types.
-G
Good start in terms of PR would be to aggressively target adminstration, McCain, Lieberman and others, as big liars or big incompetent fools whenever they spout propaganda nonsense about factions in Iraq.
I have decided that they are cyncial, knowling deliberate liars, but that might not be the best approach for politicians who want to stay on the TV.
I think the administration needs to keep the lies spinning to paint Dawa/ISCI and the Badr militia as the one true and good and really democratic Iraq. Any challangers for leadership, or even any other faction who wants a real say, well, they get in the way of the squalid corrupt deal, so they are to be painted as some collecton of evildoers.
Seems very important to attack this administration propaganda campaign. And also seems to me that we do have an advantage, since the Cheney Bush cover story is so fantastical they cannot even provide one that is superficially coherent.
Goodnight, Moon.
thanks for that. And they both represented San Mateo county -one of the poster boys of the soft degenerate Northern California luxe lifestyle.
We have the right to assemble peaceably. This is what we must do.
Would you please explain what you mean – I don’t understand about SM county.
AS CNN showed us all today.. you do it well like Kirk and the fine folks in SF and they will run away from you! *S*
Along with GorillasGuides of course,
I make a point of reading the following daily:
Missing Links by Badger
Aswat Al Iraq esp the Politics and Security section
The fact that the Congressional Democrats are willing to roll over for almost any lie told for fear of being branded “soft” on Terra is the same thing that the republicans have been doing for 40 years.
Democrats: Soft on Crime
Democrats: Soft on The “War” on Drugs
Democrats: Soft on Tax-Cuts
Democrats: Soft on Defense
Democrats: Soft on Terra
Democrats: Soft on Welfare
Democrats: oh, hell you all fill in the blank.
Every “frame” built by the republicans has been neatly been filled in by the cowed, corporatist DLC bi-partisan-wannabe fools.
Jeebus save us that they should grow a backbone and speak to Crocker and Petraeus like Biden did at the end of the day yesterday.
Their stamina did in fact outweigh their good judgement, and will continue to do so until they are removed from their jobs.
So if I were a newspaper editor my headline for tomorrow would be “Condoleezza Rice cracks whip on torture”.
Real tough guys.
The only way this has the snowball’s chance in Darth’s lair is if McNastyTemper wins.
And if that happens, this agreement will be the least of our worries since it will mean somehow they figured out how to steal 20% of the vote.
Practice (2000, 2004) will have indeed made ‘perfect’.
Yes, Haleema @ guides was very very helpful!
Perfect! With a picture of her in the black boots!
Hmmm… I don’t know if there is an excess of SM in San Mateo county. could be, though.
San Mateo County is just south of San Francisco on the penninsula; home to several very wealthy suburban communities such as Hillsborough and Atherton, and Palo Alto the home of Stanford University.
Many communities there are not particularly wealthy, but it is quite well off.
I live in San Mateo county and it certainly isn’t all wealthy. You might be surprised at certain parts where the poverty is evident.
Watch…
This is going to get interesting.
yes, I know. I was talking about the image, not the total reality.
Places like East Palo Alto are not wealthy at all, mostly poor in fact, and have had history of serous crime and gang problems. Some working class SF suburbs are in Northern San Mateo county too with some problems -parts of Pacifica, for example.
That is a pretty broad brush.
Yeah, there are wealthy communities in this district, and just plain bedroom communities, and some bleak poverty, too.
There’s nothing hoity-toity about this Congressional district.
hugh was commenting on this story earlier. it surprising to me that it hasn’t been jumped on….that rice and powell (according to their unnamed sources) were so centrally involved makes me wonder if the desire for torture didn’t come from bush and not cheney.
OK, sorry for my broad brush on San Mateo.
Parts of it are very wealthy and very very nice. Parts of it are very ppor and have been a big mess in the past, and many parts are regular working and middle class, with typical working and middle class problems.
hey selise! just think,after all this is settled we have to keep track of these fucks.They’re whole philosophy has to be anihilated.teach your children well
I’ve been head faked before (the missing e-mails, Ralston, Goodling & Sara what’s-her-face’s testimony, soopeenees for Rove, Bolton & Meier’s testimony), but this may be the one that finally brings this crime syndicate down.
This is part of the effort to contact Congress on tomorrow to speak out against the war funding. And for a note of real comfort, W is giving a major speech tomorrow, so we can expect another happy ending.
2. Co-sponsor Lynn Woolsey’s HR 5507 and safely bring all the troops home.
Call the Capitol switchboard at 202-224-3121 or find your Representative’s phone on the right side:
http://usalone.com
Want to do more?
1. Email your Senators and Representative and ask your friends and relatives to join you:
http://www.democrats.com/iraq-petition
selise and STTPinOhio…
I hadn’t seen it till just a few minutes ago. But it is the sort of thing that reminds me of the prisoners dilemma times – what is it? – six?
The President claims that his proposed agreement would not contain security “guarantees” for the Iraqis and so would not require Senate approval.
Who thinks 300,000+ personnel, troops and a private contractors in equal numbers, semi-permanently stationed in Iraq will only be needed for guard duty and to keep the motor pool trucks running smoothly? When you have ‘em, you use ‘em.
Who thinks we won’t end up with de facto guarantees based on the need for US forces to defend themselves or to respond in force to prior attacks?
Finally, any First World War buffs about? It was a conflagration that started based on interlocking arrangements and at least one “cordial understanding”, only a few of which were legal commitments. Some leaders wanted war, some thought it inevitable, others thought they could do nothing to stop it or tried too late. And once the troops were on the move, everybody claimed they couldn’t be stopped without losing advantage or face. So they stayed their course and permanently altered the world’s.
only if we had a functioning DOJ.
Empire? What empire?
Implementing elementary management practice would mean leaving Iraq now for something more worthwhile.
Could you imagine a manager agreeing to permanent ongoing investment of resources without a payoff?
The opportunity cost is enormous.
One tenth of the Iraq investment would save many more lives in Africa!
I would like someone to ask Clinton & Obama what are their plans for the permanent bases being built in Iraq. A “draw down” of the troops means nothing.
Edwards was the last true democrat & liberal in the race.
sigh…