Turned a corner and got shot in the face

How many corners does a quagmire have?

Excellent Blue Texan, Excellent!

wont be surprised if it shows up replete with soundbytes on KO tonight -

yo lurking intern, nudge, nudge

I think they’ve pretty much taken enough corners to be in a vicious circle jerk.

Graham is an idiot. With luck, KO will rake him for it.

Ackerman just delivered a pretty good lecture to Crocker.

did he see the light at the end of the tunnel when he turned the corner?

To follow up on the other talking point killed yesterday (Crocker admitting that al Qaeda in Afghanistan/Pakistan is more dangerous than al Qaeda in Iraq), can we ask that troop levels in Iraq be dropped to the level we have in the more important front in Afghanistan?

Right now they’re taking care of the “wolves closest to the sled.” Gotta luv these military cliches.

That’s what always happens when I turn a corner.

P: We’re substituting our extremist ideology for al Qaeda’s.

If you keep turning corners, eventually you’re going around in circles.

“Wolves closest to the sled”? Really? Where’d they pick that one up from — Putin? that’s one of those 19th Century Russian images…sledge in the forest being chased by wolves….who do they throw out first to feed the wolves and let the other escape?

Yes, he really said that. As who to throw out to the wolves, I have a little list, but mods won’t let me post it.

I think I was EPU’d in a response to you last thread

You mean they were lying? Nah, probably not, they were just mistaken or those damn libruls gave them incorrect information.

who do they throw out first to feed the wolves and let the othe

r escape?

My money’s on Crocker. Look for him to be replaced by May 15, buying another Friedman Unit for the diplomatic surge.

So?

There’s no light at the end of the tunnel because there’s no tunnel. There’s only a very deep, very dark, cornerless pit.

Yes, I saw that. Thanks for it. Is there a good Dem running against this moron? Could be worth tossing a few coins that way on ActBlue.

Right – the only guy there who can speak the languages…who will they replace him with – that idiot Rep. who keeps playing that video from when he was in the Green Zone? Perfect.

How many corners does a quagmire have?

I always wind up here

Who is there to replace him? Any candidates?

LOL! One of the few ties I wear has that on it.

And even Mike Mulligan and Mary Anne couldn’t get us out with this lot running the show! ;^)

Who is there to replace him? Any candidates?

Ambassador Lyndsey Graham

I’d love to see Samatha Power with the job, but since it would be a Bush appointment, it does seem that Wolfowitz and Bolton are not in government presently.

using the word “front” implies that there are in faact two theatres in the same war. Not true. There’s Afghanistan, a front in a war we seem determined to lose against global AQ. Then we have Iraq.. a cynical attempt at Potemkin-style deception on the part of whatever passes for government in this country these days.

Who is there to replace him? Any candidates?

Jeb Bush is not that busy these days.

So let’s see, 5 corners. Looks like we’ve just started another trip around the block. No wonder it looks familiar.

There’s only a very deep, very dark, cornerless pit.

don’t mock the afflicted, I hear Mr Cheney is very high up on that list these days – and should receive a heart any day now :D

Potemkin. That’s a word that’s missing from the Qs.

Isn’t Macaca still kicking around.. unbelievably, he was there at McShrub’s celebratory speech during the VA primary. Perhaps they’ll turn to him if McShrub implodes.

Bolton, Wolfowitz, Jeb Bush. None of those guys would take the job because then they’d have to work instead of bloviate.

Here’s a map

HRC Questioning Petraeus

Clinton: “What conditions would have to exist for you to recommend to the president that the current strategy is not working? And it seems apparent that you have a conditions-based analysis, as you set forth in your testimony, but the conditions are unclear, they certainly lack specificity, and the decision points, with respect to these conditions, are also vague.

“So how are we to judge, General Petraeus, what the conditions are or should be and the actions that you and the administration would recommend pursuing based on them?”

What are the odds she knew she was asking questions he couldn’t answer
openly and honestly ?

Same with Biden, questioning Crocker, except he cracked under the pressure.

Safe posturing from HRC, bravado for a well televised hearing.

The sled with the wolves is on its way to the Potemkin Village, right?

Hey Bt telling it like it is!! The lies keep coming…. these rethuglians will never tell the truth about anything… we must pity them as they just don’t know any other way! POOR BASTARDS!
Digg it

Brilliant!

Sherman to P: Will you start your withdrawal plan on Nov 5 if a candidate favoring withdrawal wins?

P: I can only serve one boss at a time.

You can experience corner turning for yourself using Street View

This is my list of turning points in Iraq from my scandals list:

193. Selling the war: Part 2. Iraq the turning points. While enough for a hexadecagon, not enough to make a difference.

1. May 1, 2003 End of major combat operations announced on board the aircraft carrier USS Lincoln: Mission accomplished
2. July 22, 2003 Saddam Hussein’s sons Uday and Qusai killed
3. December 13, 2003 Saddam Hussein captured
4. March 8, 2004 Interim Constitution
5. June 28, 2004 Interim government formed/Sovereignty returned
6. November 2004 Second siege of Fallujah
7. January 30, 2005 First elections for transitional assembly
8. May 3, 2005 Transitional government formed
9. October 15, 2005 Vote on constitution
10. December 15, 2005 Elections for permanent assembly
11. April 22, 2006 Nuri al Maliki replaces interim PM Ibrahim Jaafari in forming a permanent government
12. May 20, 2006 Maliki presents permanent government: the key ministries of Defense, Interior, and National Security are left unfilled
13. June 7, 2006 Jihadist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi killed; June 8, 2006 last ministries filled in permanent government (175 days after the elections)
14. December 30, 2006 Saddam Hussein executed by hanging
15. January 10, 2007 Bush announces his New Way Forward plan, aka the “surge”. Deployment of surge forces completed June 15, 2007. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates and General David Petraeus claim progress is being made.
16. September 10-11, 2007 General David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker testify before Congress and report the “surge” is working

Iraqi Jesus should be fired if he’s going to kill the Right’s talking points. What kind of a General is he, anyway, if he doesn’t listen to Fred Kagan, author of the Surge?

When will these Generals learn to clear their responses with Charles Krauthammer?

translation.. I like my job and I want to keep it for the 9 months…

I wonder if Petreaus is going to get in trouble with Rumsfeld Gates for making that remark…

Wowy, Rorhrabacher’s turning on Crocker. Is his district turning blue?

If he keeps going off the reservation like this, Petraeus will have plenty of time to spend on Wii golf, like he seems to already have.

I never did that before! thanks

(bowing to the crowd)

So, even if the questions are worth asking — and demanding answers to — you’d rather she’d have kept her mouth shut? Because Hillary Clinton asking legitimate questions that Petraeus refused to answer is a problem…why exactly?

Biden got an answer because Crocker cracked. Good for him. What are the odds that Biden asked those questions expecting them not to be answered, but was pleased that Crocker spilled on them? Should he have kept his mouth shut instead if he didn’t expect a direct answer — or weren’t his questions worth asking, too, especially since occasionally you do catch a fish with some good bait. If the questions aren’t asked at all by anyone, they never get that chance to crack the witnesses, now do they. But that’s Clinton’s fault, somehow?

I’m not getting your logical inference on this, other than you clearly weren’t happy that it was Clinton asking these questions — but they are ones that Petraeus ought to be pressured to answer in every hearing in which he appears because, eventually, he’ll slip some indication in on what he thinks.

I want someone to ask how many bullets it takes to kill one insurgent. IIRC, it’s something like 250,000.

Clinton: “What conditions would have to exist for you to recommend to the president that the current strategy is not working?

I am not a Clinton supporter but I thought she did a good job yesterday. That is a question well worth asking whether P&C duck it or not.

The other thing she pointed out was that the U.S. now has military responsibility for So. Iraq, a burden we have not had to shoulder previously. I think these twerps in congress should be all over that one.

Not really. He just thanked P for killing thousands of furrin terrists before they could kill us here.

Wexler up with his email Qs–5,000 submitted.

Rohr started scolding, lapdog in middle, then finished by scolding.

Wow! Wexler got 5000 questions submitted!

The opposite should be asked as well: “What conditions would have to exist for you to recommend that the current strategy has worked and that our troops could come home?”

I do wish everyone would stop asking Iraqi Jesus about “strategy” though — he’s a tactics guy. Strategy is set in the White House. It buffs Betrayus’ credentials to ask him about strategy.

Wexler!

o/t

Bilal Hussein has been freed from 2 years of US Military custody by an Iraqi Judicial Council under new amnesty laws

Probably just as well Petraeus hasn’t seen any light at the end of the tunnel. The way this maladministration runs things, that light would be the headlamps on the midnight fast freight. Followed by them blaming us for being on the tracks trying to fix the broken rails when it came through.

Wexler -

WHAT IS WINNING ?!?!?

“Clinton: “What conditions would have to exist for you to recommend to the president that the current strategy is not working?”

two problems here: the president doesn’t take recommendations, and there’s no integral strategy. There are just a collection of tactics, which change arbitrarily from day-to-day in response not to conditions on the ground in Iraq but rather to beltway politics and the boy king’s whims.

Did anyone catch Jim Webb’s curious statement to Tweety yesterday about something that is going to happen in the next week or two that will force the admin to take “tactile” action….Anybody know what he was talking about?

To which P is regurigitating W’s talking points.

the good congressman had just smacked him for same

Its a pretty safe thing for her to stand up and get all righteous
about, after all this time has passed.

It seemed more an attempt at point scoring for her candidacy than
an actual attempt criticize the war, or its ‘managers’ directly.

Canny maneuvering or not she is not a very credible critic given
her generally pro ‘war on terror’ stance.

Perhaps I should have genuflected before criticizing HRC.

Thanks for the fun, folks. Gotta run.

Even tho the Pentagon has five sides, it also has five rings (A -E) within: and I can guarantee you can keep going forever around any one of those rings.

At least where they are not blocked for “super classified” stuff.

I concede the point that any kind of questioning is better
than having talking points thrown at us.

No genuflection necessary — but Obama’s questions were fairly similar in nature yesterday — and McCain’s were abysmal. Perhaps you should be honest about your criticism of only HRC rather than pretending it’s all even-handed. Because, frankly, it was the non-candidates that distinguished themselves in the questioning yesterday (a point I made earlier).

Sara Taylor is a Republican strategist on MSNBC!!!

I like how Froomkin starts things off today in his column:

Well, it’s official. Getting out of Iraq is now exclusively the next president’s problem.

Breaking: Postal workers Union unanimously endorsed Obama … all HRC supporters should expect their mail 2 weeks later than usual … *g* Link

No genuflection necessary — but Obama’s questions were fairly similar in nature yesterday — and McCain’s were abysmal. Perhaps you should be honest about your criticism of only HRC rather than pretending it’s all even-handed.

Can we please go after McBush rather than feeding on each other? HRC’s questions were legit, as were Obamas.

Boxturtle (Hey St. John! Why not just read BushCo’s talking points into the record and go to lunch?)

ugh. That’s no fair. I better make sure everybody everybody has ben email address then…

McCain of course says he has nothing to worry about, since the Morse Code Union
has not endorsed any of his opponents …

((((( Christy )))))

Petraeus is unwilling to declare ANY milestones reached in Iraq because he knows he will be back in front of a Congressional committee in three months or six months, with no turning of any corners, and be reminded of his words.

They had the ever-putrid Babs Comstock on earlier as well. It’s a Rogues Gallery of GOP pundits on MSNBC lately…blergh.

That is assuming a level of competence and sophistication not present in my Chicago branch.

No kidding. Sometimes I watch the Sara Taylor video where Leahy grills her about her oath…and LMAO…

McCain of course says he has nothing to worry about, since the Morse Code Union
has not endorsed any of his opponents …

The, flag waving, Semaphore union has endorsed StMac however

It’s fascinating how these paid operatives of the GOP go on MSNBC to commentate upon the Democratic primary — “Obama should, Hillary shouldn’t” whatever — but you never really see anyone but the odious Larry O’Donnell on for the Democrats commentating about McCain. Well, Gene Robinson, but Gene works for the WaPo.

Why doesn’t MSNBC have Democratic operatives on to commentate about McCain?

we should have just devided the trillion dollars to peeps of Iraq,and not invaded…we are paying them anyway not to shoot at us……at least they would have electricity,running water,and a million of their men,woman,and children alive

MSGOP seems to revile Obama

Jack Welch said no?

cause he will bring home the bacon ,so to speak…for General Electric,Obama not so much

you beat me to the punch

I thought Bob Schrum has commentated on everybody by now!

oh, there turning coroners, alright.

But you don’t understand – then the money would not have lined the pockets of the cronies. We don’t care about people and their problems. Ours or theirs.

Same question Obama asked—good question in my opinion.

the birdies are chirping merrily here on this lovely spring day!

… getting slow in yer old age, eh ? *g*

BTW the Cushing spot price for crude is currently at $111.68. Wednesday is the day that the EIA (Energy Information Administration) comes out with its weekly figures. These show that oil stocks declined by 3.2 million bbls and gasoline by 3.4 million bbls last week. The decline in crude still leaves it midpoint in the average range for this time of year. And while gasoline inventories declined the big story was this week’s commentary:

During the first half of 2007, motor gasoline consumption was up by 0.9 percent compared with the same period the previous year. But, during the second half of 2007, gasoline consumption declined by 0.1 percent from the year before. In fact, fourth-quarter consumption fell by 0.4 percent. The drop in gasoline consumption, the first since the recession of 2000, should come as no surprise with the slowing economy and soaring gasoline prices.

The first quarter of 2008 continued to show an even sharper decline in consumption of 0.6 percent compared to the same period in 2007.

____________

In EIA’s April Short-Term Energy Outlook, motor gasoline consumption this summer (April through September) is projected to average 9.40 million barrels per day (bbl/d), down 0.4 percent from that of the previous summer. Adjusting for the reduced Btu content of the growing ethanol share of the motor gasoline pool, the year-to-year decline would be closer to 0.9 percent. Regular retail prices are projected to average $3.54 per gallon, up from $2.93 per gallon last summer.

Today’s spike in crude oil prices is another indication that this market is driven by speculation. The fundamentals as the EIA commentary shows are headed elsewhere.

Weren’t there any questions about Fallon? Wouldn’t have this have been a nice way of getting at what a “chickenshit” political general Petraeus is? No Democrat, except maybe Webb, wants to even try to undermine the credibility of the witness.

sadly yes….a few families have made great fortunes like Gen.Smedly Butler said in the 1930s

Five corners…

I was iempted to say leads you into a vivious circle.

But, It’s more of a nasty pentagon.

old age aint for sissies…..Betty Davis

Ron Paul’s up. Pass the popcorn.

The, flag waving, Semaphore union has endorsed StMac however

Og of the Hit big stone against nuther big stone Union comes out for McCain, says he always looked up to him as a kid.

If both a surge and a pause include bombing innocent civilians in Sadr city, what’s the difference?

tempted, vicious… Damn…

I do not consider Bob Shrum a Democratic operative, although I recognize that he does, as do others. That many losses must mean he is working for someone other than the Democrats.

Gas at $3.34 per AAA via MSNBC

WAR IS A RACKET

by Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Recipient

Major General Smedley D. Butler – USMC Retired

CHAPTER ONE

WAR IS A RACKET

WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small ”inside” group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

In the World War [I] a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows.

How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?

Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few – the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill.

And what is this bill?

This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its attendant miseries. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations.

For a great many years, as a soldier, I had a suspicion that war was a racket; not until I retired to civil life did I fully realize it. Now that I see the international war clouds gathering, as they are today, I must face it and speak out.

Go Ron!

LOL … she was one of the best … I remember the last time she went on Letterman, still puffing away and all …

http://houston.craigslist.org/pol/635640788.html

”Bakken” – Enough oil for 40 years easily
In the coming weeks, the U.S. Geological Survey will release a major study on the ’Bakken’ formation, in what’s being hailed as the most significant find since Alberta’s Pembina Cardium play in 1957.

It’s 5.3X the proven reserves of Exxon, Gazprom, Chevron and ConocoPhillips combined… Twice the size of Saudi Arabia’s Ghawar oil field…

When the U.S.G.S. study is released, the 3 companies already drilling there will explode -

In Richland County, Montana – about 470 miles outside the state capitol of Helena – America’s greatest wealth boom is fast – and secretly – underway.

To get right to the point… It’s the largest domestic oil discovery since Alaska’s Prudhoe Bay and has the potential to eliminate all American dependence on foreign oil.”

ron paul making more sense than anyone else today.

and he asks a great question – does the president have the power to order the bombing iran without congressional approval?

Now you know why he has all those libertarian fans. Unfortunately, the rest of the libertarian program is nuts.

Should have asked P. if he would bomb Iran if ordered by the Preznit without congressional approval?

i went to her prep school ,way back when,and she was my first femminist idol “g”…big portrait in the study room

Sara Taylor doesn’t think anyone looks at John McCain and thinks he isn’t extremely knowledgable about foreign affairs. The American people understand that people misspeak.

My fav was Kate Hepburn, Ingrid Bergman, then Bette Davis and she was a very strong individual indeed …

i for one want one of these

http://green.yahoo.com/blog/ec…..ction.html

very nuts.

Does this surprise you from a person who’s lucidly and consistently opposed the war?

One jeers his CRAZY ideas about the Federal Reserve less loudly in light of recent events, too.

umm.. isn’t half of Bakken in Canada? Or are we assuming that Canada can be conquered if push comes to shove?

to clarify – ron paul reminds me of some marxists i know. some of their analysis of what is wrong makes a lot of sense to me. but then they start explaining their solutions and they loose me.

At least Ron Paul didn’t shrink from that task. OTOH, he couldn’t even get a straight answer from either the general with all those stars or the ambassador about whether Congress needs to be consulted before any decision is made to bomb Iran. He said all he wanted was a straight no for an answer, since that’s what the Constitution says.

But there is antiwar common cause between the left & the libertarian part of the right, and we should work with them as much as possible on that issue.

Would a Pause and a Surge be a Purge?

i for one want one of these

http://green.yahoo.com/blog/ec…..ction.html

not one of these?

Good Luck fighting with those Albertans over Oil …

agreed. and not just antiwar – when it come to fisa, torture, etc – we have a common cause there too.

It’s what Jim Webb has said in proposed legislation, too (co-sponsored by Clinton after a year, to my amazement!). Webb, by the way, is in the top two in kos’ poll for who would make the best Vice-President for Obama.

Funny you should ask.. I was just considering making a Sara Taylor barf bag./s (Gucci knock off, of course)

Go Alberta! Those blue-eyed sheiks.

Can we get Matthew Broderick & Will Ferrell in front of Congress next time … it’s all acting anyways, but at least we’d have some fun …

This is crucial.. especially considering the energy and fund raising capability we’ve witnessed among that crowd.

… and those Flames and Oilers are always spoiling for a fight … *g*

”Vice President Webb” yes, I could get used to hearing that.

righto

OfT: It sounds like the Olympic Torch Relay route’s been shortened. There aren’t barricades past Bay Street on the Embarcadero, and a bunch of protesters have crossed the barricades at Folsom Street and are marching, inside the barricades, down the Embarcadero to McCovey Cove, where the opening ceremonies are set to start at 1pm.

More here.

until a hockey game breaks out.

”Vice President Webb” yes, I could get used to hearing that.

but surely not ”Vice President Rice”

MCNBC confirms the Mayor sez the route’s been cut to three miles from six.

He’s pretty conservative. Hates shrub, but pretty conservative.

I like the part where Petraus said that the champagne was getting pushed to the back of the refrigerator.

Actually, I don’t like the fact that these guys see no end, no corner, no nothing. But at least they are conceding by inference that this is a quagmire. First one has to admit one has a problem . . . etc.

Mike Spence is a pampas asshole… Sory excuse for a congressman.

Canada to USA if the oil reserves are proven:

Pwned! You hosers.

We would be subjected to a future of Canadians with Petrodollars… KBR Kanada anyone?

But his appearance is straight out of central casting.

“We haven’t turned any corners. We haven’t seen any lights at the end of the tunnel.”

this is because the president was given an two obtions and decided on “1″

1) go long

2) go home

petreaus has decided going home is not an option and doesn’t want to be called on claiming it is an option

for a few months now the meme has been that we are going to stay in iraq, the goal has been moved, the goal is now NOT getting our boys and girls home, the goal now is staying in Iraq

((((( Eg )))))

Do you think there’s a stronger VP candidate than Webb ?

Wait till they meet up with the Sharks *G*

Is that where they found that POS???

The problem with Bakken is that the oil is hard to produce. I am no expert on this but a quick reading indicates that the oil occurs in a dolomite layer between two layers of shale. Because the oil is bound tightly vertical drilling can tap into only small amounts of it. Horizontal drilling can increase production by increasing the surface area of the well. This could potentially double or triple production there but still leave it below Prudhoe Bay for example.

also, i think there are a number of not-nutso libertarians… the ones who are in it for principles like being against the the war, torture, etc. for example, i’ve listened to a lot of interviews done by scott horton at antiwar.com (not scott horton at harpers), and he comes off as a very thoughtful, principled young person (to me at least) even though i probably disagree with him on lots of things. i’d like to have principled and honest people to argue about policy with. i’m tired about arguing about principles that i thought we all agreed on (but apparently we don’t).

I will be switching from the hearings to the torch run… will be carried livr here in the Bay area by channel 7 news…FREE TIBET

“Canadians with Petrodollars”

been to Alberta lately? But no worries… when we decide we really need that oil I’m sure shrubco can find WMDs in Ottawa or something.

Webb as a VP would more than make up for McCain. Not only did he graduate from the Naval Academy, but I don’t think he was anywhere near the bottom of his class. He’s a combat vet, has extensive bureaucratic experience in DC and legislative experience in the body he’d be nominally the “leader” of.

Either candidate would be lucky to get him, and it makes sense to run him as the anti-McCain.

Maybe we’ll all get lucky and McVain will pick LIEberman as his running mate…

I was thinking the same thing; noticed he didn’t have that great a voting record on some things that count. OTOH, it would keep him from having to vote for stuff in the Senate (except in the event of a tie, in which case we’d have to mostly count on him voting the wrong way.) To be truthful, I think he would be a better Sec’y of Defense or of Veteran’s Affairs or something like that. He’s already been Sec’y of the Navy, hasn’t he?

Hey BT, an excellent post, one I intend to cite a lot. Thanks.

Webb was a Republican until 2006.

North American Union – SSP

was that p or c who just said this is calculus and geometry not arithmetic?

p.s. please, not webb. talk with raven about him.

That was P.

P was using mathematical analogies all day yesterday- so it must be he.

If memory serves me, Webb was once a Reagan Republican. We complain about the Overton Window’s rightward shift, while endorsing ever more rightwing candidates. Republicans turn into Democrats, we elect them, and then wonder why the Country shifts ever rightward…

The left’s insecurity about its security creds. Seem to think they need a military man to buff up chances. Hell, we’ve militarized everything else in the U.S., why not do it to the political left too?

Has this congresscritter just asked Crocker to be AQ’s spokesman ?

These hearings are useless from the standpoint of making decisions. It matters not how far you have come- it matters to where you are going and how long it will take to get there- and how much it will cost…

These clowns have no idea to whence they wander.

After that war, we could take their oil AND get rid of that pesky universal healthcare system of theres…. Presumably Polk was arguably every bit as bad of a president as shrub was, but he’s fondly remembered by some ’cause he expanded the contiguous US by waging wars of aggression… why wouldn’t shrub want to emulate his example?

Reagan was a Democrat until the 60’s. He was even active in the union that represents actors, SAG, (president of SAG for five consecutive terms) and was one of the most virulent anti-union presidents ever (PATCO). (and a virulent anti-communist as well who testified in front of the House Un-American Activities Committee HUAC as SAG President)

McCain was tortured as a POW. Hillary was once progressive. John Edwards voted for the war.

Everyone can change, and Webb has shown an remarkably amazing allegiance to his oath as an Ensign when he left the Naval Academy to “Support and Defend the Constitution of the United States” even when it meant leaving his long-held political convictions behind when he saw that the republican party he supported no longer supported the America he loves.

That’s true. Webb was Assistant Secretary of Defense for Reserve Affairs and then Secretary of the Navy under Reagan.

Sheila Jackson Lee

Go Alberta! Those blue-eyed shieks

Hey, I resemble that remark!

seconded.

BTW i’m watching the senate on Cspan and Jeff Sessions….what a wanker cheerleading Petraeus, the surge, other misc bullshit.

So pups, how are you all doing today?

why not do it to the political left too?

:(

thanks. didn’t make any sense to me.

This from WaPo via Froomkin:

The Washington Post editorial board writes: “Gen. Petraeus and Mr. Crocker have gotten more confident about calling the surge a success, and rightly so.”

Who says they are out of touch?

Go Sheila Go !

That may be true, but I’d like to see a longer progressive history before we nominate him to the No. 2 post. I’d have to look, but I was under the impression that he’s more a Blue Dog, not a progressive except towards the war.

Go Sheila! Declare victory and leave!

My daughter is a green-eyed Albertan. She’d get really pissed when she’d hear KD Lang sing “Big Boned Gal.”

LOL … KD Lang is one of our finest …

Is that what she said? (I don’t have teevee) Please let me know the response.

Heh, Im a slender Alberta guy! ;-)

OfT: People are lying down on Bryant Street, just off the Embarcadero, in front of a bus that allegedly is carrying torch runners to the opening ceremony. The bus cannot proceed and the protesters won’t move.

You might be able to get the stream on MSNBC’s site which is considerably better than CSpan …

I’ve been banned from watching the horse and pony show starring P&C for the sake of my own sanity but i would ever so appreciate you all posting any notable questions or comments from said hearing.

crazy-making.

What’s the problem? That he’s a male chauvinist? An ex-Republican? That he defamed John Kerry and has unapologetically insisted on the rightness of our wicked cause in Vietnam?

Do these things matter when he ran to oppose the war, and has in fact substantively opposed it on the floor of the Senate ever since getting there? It’s just gravy that he’s actually voiced “populist” concerns in matters domestic, such as when he decried inequalities of income distribution.

This guy is a great choice both electorally and philosophically, not to mention the fact that he is a sharp, combative and intimidating debater.

I don’t think I need to talk to raven about this.

He was ditching answering the question about monetary costs of withdrawal by saying it was difficult math, not easy arithemtic.

Bravo !!!

… and there are apparently many legal eagles there to see if there’s any abuse of power from the authorities, as in France …

Paraphrased, what she did say was the Prez had already declared victory and their mission is done, now we should leave…!

He said, “This is Calculus, not Arithmetic” … he should have been interrupted right there and asked, “Well, have you used Calculus in your planning for the last 5 years?”

From Chopper5, I see the blue-and-white-track-suited Chinese gestapo accompanying the torch in its little lantern.

Opening ceremonies have still not started.

It’s on CSPAN 1 TeeVee now

gestapo accompanying the torch

Blackwater?

As I recall it, calculus is the study of numbers approaching infinity.
An apt analogy for this Administration’s long term military plan for Iraq

I find the statement enlightening and honest.

Is this the first time a foreign presence has been allowed to police a crowd ?

I wouldn’t interpret Obama choosing Webb as an effort to “bolster security creds”. I’d interpret it as two things:

1. A clear signal that he will end the war
2. An effort to win Virginia

Yes and maybe he should have also been asked if he passed Calculus in school.
:^)

Folks at Pier 39 *Fisherman’s Wharf* are being moved down the Embarcadero to Bay Street, as the route’s been shortened to at least Bay/Kearney.

Other sources saying the torch won’t make it past Justin Herman Plaza, where it was going to end up after the loop up the Embarcadero.

Opening ceremonies underway now.

It ha started…. now the fun starts … lets see what happens when the torch is being run through on the streets.. shortened to 3 miles… ha FREE TIBET

Calculus is used to solve problems, not cast them in terms of infinite, endless equations …

he ran to oppose the war, and has in fact substantively opposed it on the floor of the Senate ever since getting there?

did i miss all his votes to end the war?

Is there on online stream ?

I was trying to figure out where geometry fit in, from the original quote. It must have been used to build the house of cards.

here

As I said, we’ve militarized everythink else in the U.S. Might as well complete the job.

IMO if we want to stay out of wars we need pols who don’t have a vested interest in war. I’m happy to use Webb for what he’s good for right now, and the other ex-military blue candidates. But I don’t trust them for a second.

Torch lit now. Off and running.

Hey the blue suited goons are here.. I hope they don’t start a riot!! This is just what the PRC wants so USA lose face

((( Teddy )))

Thanks Bro !

Blue meanies escorting runner through secret route.

Why are they going through a warehouse?

Covering torch run on CNN.

It must have been used to build the house of cards.

No doubt about it! ;^)

It’s a pier structure, now the motorcycle cops are coming out.

I think they might take the boat route?

Frin Wikipedia (it must be true it must be true)

Calculus (Latin, calculus, a small stone used for counting) is a branch of mathematics that includes the study of limits, derivatives, integrals, and infinite series, and constitutes a major part of modern university education. Historically, it was sometimes referred to as “the calculus of infinitesimals”, but that usage is seldom seen today.

My memory is not that far off.
Classic equations look at functions that approach (but necessarily never reach) infinity.

The snuck out the back?

No one seems to know where the torch is.

There’s also this from the same page … “Calculus has widespread applications in science and engineering and is used to solve problems for which algebra alone is insufficient.”

“Calculus is used to solve problems, not cast them in terms of infinite, endless equations”

You forget who we’re dealing with here :)… didn’t one of the neocons famously say something to effect that two plus two equals more than four in a universe where they’ve acquired the power to create their own reality?

Is she just running around in circles inside this enclosure?

Maybe it’s gone to Disneyland … *g*

Webb, whose son is at risk of dying in a futile war he decries, has a “vested interest” in that war, or one with Iran?

You might want to rethink that, especially in light of his actions on the Senate floor, and less significantly, in his words, addressed, among others, to Bush.

Maybe they are passing the torch from runner to runner inside the pier building, so everyone gets a chance to “carry” it. Then they can put it into a bus and take it to the Plaza for the closing ceremonies.

Maybe, but derivatives are gonna cause problems, and soon.

Chronicle reporting: Torch by boat to the other sidechronicle reporting:

will the runners just run around on the boat and pass the torch to one another?

They are already causing lots of problems …

it’s not the end of the world, is it, if we disagree on this one?

CBS5 webcam shows Boy Mayor with his hands on his hips, looking pissed off, surrounded by smoking Chinese men in suits.

Haven’t had time to read through all the comments yet, but having turned so many corners, doesn’t that bring us back to where we started? Have we just gone around the block, losing hundreds of casualties in the process?

Bob in HI

PS FDL seems to keep losing my log-in info. Anyone else having that problem?

Hehehe reports that demonstrators are recieving info updates as to where the police are, the routes, etc. so the can locate the torch

not to go off on a tangent

Well this leg of the torch run has been a HUGE success much like London and Paris

No it has to be your ISP…

They’re in the van

Going around the back of the park (buses, vans, police, etc.)

What a waste of the tax payer money

Not at all. Which is why I was voicing my disagreement. It’s not the end of the world, is it?

Not to carry on overly long, but those problems are questions of stress and tolerance which are not correctly described by algebraic equasions.

Calculus introduces functions which describe useful approximations of infinity which lead to practical solutions rather than leaving the problem solver to find the ‘perfect’ algebraic equasion.

cough

i think that’s Trig

It’s looking like a good day for nonviolent civil disobedience. May it spread!

In response to bobschacht @ 227

No it has to be your ISP…

How can it be my ISP? I set my password in my FDL profile, and then the login screen won’t accept it the next day.

Bob in HI

Demonstrators keep updating location of torch via cell phones.

At the end of the day, this has been a colassal failure for the PRC pr machine

Maybe it is your PC and you lost the cookie thats has you login in info thats the other way it can happen. It wouldn’t be the lake since websites relie on cookies to pass them you login info… But your ISP can block traffic selectively

THE TORCH IS NOW ON THE STREET!

My last thought on this matter is, whatever terms P/C use, they are running away from the obvious conclusion everyone in Congress seems to be aware of …

Two people holding torch with police officers next to them

walking of the torch

is that the holiday inn on geary street?

wolf blitzer is an ass…pass it on

agreed entirely

They are on Van Ness waiting behind some kind of a bus

Doh! I meant Van Ness. thanks..)

Hey, maybe you & I can solve the MidEast Crises while we’re at it … *g*

I thought the torch flame was never supposed to go out?

The blue clad thugs are now surrounding the torch carriers and a boat load of cops

that is a lot of police force

be safe my demonstrating brothers and sisters

the blue goons are there as well…

They are off course where there are no barricades. Off they go

Looks a little like the Oscar Meyer weinermobile.

Unpublicized route

SF is the only place I have ever been arrested.. It was for protesting Iraq war 1. They arrested at least 30 thousand of us that week.

I believed that was the same for the Olympic Spirit … which went out long ago when the Corporate Overlords took control of the IOC …

holy crap look at all the freakin police

I am glad I am not driving in the city as they are rolling the closures of the streets… what a freeking mess… OH and they jogging with the torch

next set of runners taking over

I wonder if Mitt is watching.

what a farce

This is just a cluster fuck this torch shit… the PRC doesn’t want to loose face….

Rumoured that demonstrators have infiltrated the list of torch barriers and said they will make a statement with the torch.

Hmmmm

You should hear the commentary on CNN’s site … scripted by the PRC …

I always knew the Dalai Lama hated Democracy … /s

Boy would that throw mud in the face of the PRC…. commie bastards

Peoples Republic of Wal-Mart.

Yeah, blech, I was watching it but my gag reflex made me change but not before I started the rumour that Wolf Blitzer is an ass

Newsome has aspirations to the governorship of California hmmm don’t think so Gav go quietly into the night

Is it just a rumor ?!! *g*

we will have to wait and see, won’t we

aack Carville on my teevee…ohhh the agony

I thought my teevee had switched to the Horror Channel …

How many times can blitzer say “violent protest” or “Violent demonstrators”. That guy is such an asswipe.

Is Wolfie an ass or asswipe ?

We should conduct a poll …

Don’t watch him he is nothing but a mouth piece for the rethuglians and the PRC in this case…

yes, he is.

If this Torch Relay does not reflect the conditions in China, I don’t know what does …

we think he resembles a fist with eyes but that may be construed as mean

Look Blitzer, most of the time, a demonstration turns violent because policemen attack citizens who are holding a flag…

I wouldn’t want that bristly face near my ass!

I wouldn’t want that bristly ass near my face … *g*

I wonder if the thugs are carrying? They have little waist pouches. But this picture (I’m watching it on CNN), really says it all. No spectators, hundreds of cops, foreign thugs likely with guns.

Woohoo Protestors !!!!!! Get em kids but be careful. Couldn’t dodge them forever

all this for a fucking torch? We should freakin bill China for this bullshit or at least have them forgive on the of the thousands of loans that we have

McDonalds and Coca-cola should be charged for this crap.

Embedded reporter? Definitely speaking from the side of power. This is we need the Homegrown Terrorist Act! All the runners were scared because of the protesters…

It’s just wonderful see such an outpouring of support for human rights. Good on SF!

Too much American Corporate interests involved in this …

Yep, it’s be great to catch China’s TV News … they’re probably showing this as “America’s unbridled support for the Glorious Chinese Gov’t”

Yeah, it is my deepest wish that the american corps, who have blood on their hands, pay dearly (financially) for their participation in this bull

The police are walking around with rifles (swat team) that is democracy for you (chinese style)

Aaarrrgghh … Michael Jackson’s Billie Jean blaring … why is that a part of the relay ?

LOL CNN slipped and let a guy say this is American Rock and Roll meets Chinese…..I lost it..

It’s part of the chinese torture process. i’m surprised you even asked. *g*

I didn’t want to say it … glad you did … *g*

Right now I am showing the 1930s film All Quiet on the Western Front to my 8th graders, as we are writing Conscientious Objector persuasive essays for a potential military draft…and I am struck by just how useless war still is…68 years after this film was made. I wonder if we will ever learn the uselessness of war, of selling war to youth, or if ever our leaders will not push us into another in the endless wars that began a hundred or so years ago.

The Generals bemoan our effectiveness and call for perseverance. The cnadidates hem and haw and catcall one another while promising nothing. Nothing but platitudes and vagueness. The death weapons manufacturers continue their trade selling to any buyer regardless of side, sensibility, or sanity as long as they have the money.

And the young still die for the pride of old men…for the glory of the fatherland.

Wolfie doing what he does best … inciting violence in his studio …

*cough* “… fair and open competition …” *cough* … what is this guy smoking ?

The young fight the wars that the old start

I dunno but can I get some?

Isn’t that the way it has always been? The cycle needs to be broken… Greed/power is the root of all this carnage!!

I am getting very upset with the way they keep equating the protestors with “attacking the runner”. Connie Costello has mentioned it at least three times. It is a guaranteed recipe for confrontation, a large demonstration and a massive police presence.

Why does Wolf keep harping on the economic ramifications of shaming china? Who gives a fvck? This torch running crap was invented by one propagandist gov’t and hoping that it ends with this facist propagandist gov’t

… prolly so they can blame the recession on left wing protesters …

you are 100% correct. the more police, the higher the risk for confrontation

Wolf talking about the nazi propaganda thing, as the inception of the relay… Wolfie, you are the propagandist now, you ratfucker…

boy thats quit a picture you draw… wouldn’t he be arrested for cruelty to animals??

Yeah, the visual is quite bad, I know. But, hey, he’s that big!

I pity the poor rat!

Hmm closing ceremony has been cancelled and another closing ceremony will take place at an undisclosed location.

I ask you, what is the point of even bothering to have it?

like it was mentionned earlier. The folks in china will see glorious flag and flame, and nice americans happy, happy, happy…

they will have to do some creative editing. Not many people there to cheer the runners torch face of china on.

Maybe not that creative. I mean, Wolfie almost had me believing that folks were attacking torch bearers./s

The protesters were trained in Iran.

kos’ poll for who would make the best Vice-President for Obama.

Mostly b.s., but Webb’s national defense creds help.

Still, neither is quite like Obama and I don’t see how this poll reflects the national mood to go with Obama instead of Clinton. Both Richardson and Webb would fit better with Clinton.