In Iraq:: Moktada al-Sadr threatened to end his cease fire, after being forced to call off demonstrations against the American siege of Sadr City. Since Saturday, 12 US soldiers and scores of Iraqis have been killed in renewed fighting. Seven more, including children, were killed this morning from a blast in Sadr City.
In Washington, Shorter General Petraeus: We’ve made progress, but it’s so fragile and reversible that I’ve recommended we not withdraw more troops after July beyond those we’re forced to withdraw, and I don’t know when if ever we can bring any more home. No light at the end of the tunnel. (h/t MarieRoget) I’m still dodging Warner’s question: Is this making America safer? But in perhaps the most important exchange yesterday, Crocker admitted to Biden that the more serious al Qaeda threat is in Afghanistan/Pakistan, the place Admiral Mullen said we’re short changing because of Iraq.
_______
John McCain’s supporters are anxious to have the media report what McCain meant regarding his willingness to leave US troops in Iraq for 100 years. But the more McCain’s supporters interpret his words, the more muddle headed McCain appears.
McCain argued that once US forces defeat the extremists, the US can keep troops in Iraq indefinitely just as the US does in South Korea, because American soldiers would not continue to be killed. (He later added that Iraqis could go on killing each other; see extended context.) Is McCain’s scenario plausible?
McCain’s problem is not merely that his analogy to Korea falls apart when analyzed — see Juan Cole and Frank Rich and Bill Sher — but that he assumes an extended US occupation of Iraq after we’ve subdued it by force would not provoke a deep and continuing hostility by resentful Iraqis (and Muslims elsewhere). It’s simply not credible to believe that such hostility would not produce continuing attacks on US forces as long as they occupied Iraq and shielded its collaborating government. Even now, polls of Iraqi opinion have repeatedly found the Iraqis resent our occupation, are furious when we attack civilians, find attacking Americans acceptable and want a timetable for withdrawal (as do 60 percent of Americans ).
If Korea (or Germany or Japan) is not a helpful analogy, what is? Perhaps a more apt comparison is Israel’s decades long war with the Palestinians. Consider the parallels.
Like the Israelis, we are seen as an unwelcome occupation army. Moktada al-Sadr’s Mahdi Army/militia is the Hamas equivalent. Our siege of Sadr City and the Mahdi militia looks exactly like Israel’s siege of Gaza and Hamas, complete with armed forays and air strikes in response to rocket attacks directed at the occupiers. And just like Hamas elements, the most militant of al-Sadr’s militia seem unlikely to end their armed resistance against the foreign occupiers until the occupiers leave.
Like Israel and Gaza, the US has al-Sadr’s stronghold in Sadr City under siege. As in Gaza, the occupying army controls who enters or leaves, while everyone trapped inside confronts shortages of food, water, and electricity. Just like Gaza, we’re creating a humanitarian crisis, as hundreds try to flee the expected destruction. And just like Gaza, the siege breeds fear, anger and hatred, leading inevitably to further violence. Hundreds could be killed.
Just like Fatah’s Abbas, we portray Iraq’s al-Maliki as the "moderate." Our protection frees Al-Maliki to apply military pressure to al-Sadr, demanding that he disband his militia or be barred from the elections next fall that could diminish the power of al-Maliki and his Shia allies. Al-Maliki would disenfranchise al-Sadr’s entire political movement, a strategy the US likely supports because it avoids the "mistake" the US made in Gaza when it pushed for elections that brought Hamas to power.
Our support for Iraqi democracy has become this: If you’re going to allow elections, disenfranchise the opposition first and strangle its supporters. If they try to demonstrate against the occupation, force them to call it off.
Israel’s experience in Gaza and the West Bank give us an advance look at what 100 years of occupying Iraq could mean. It is the opposite of the peaceful scenario McCain imagines. It should be obvious that descending into similar endless violence would be a disaster for America and for Iraqis.
But John McCain cannot see the obvious, because he cannot imagine how people he wants to save would not welcome our interference. Are we not honorable? Did we not mean well even as tens of thousands of people died and millions became refugees?
Such stunning myopia to our own responsibility for perpetuating violence is McCain’s greatest danger; it is why the Democrats’ interpretation of McCain’s 100 years in Iraq is essentially correct, no matter how much the right wing media complains.



100 Comments












Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
so!
When is the Olympic torch due in Sadr City?
So what yer saying, Scarecrow, is that the surge is a success, and everythings coming up roses!
Good morning, Scarecrow. You’re batting 1000 this morning in this post, as well as the one on Billy Buck.
An op-ed cartoon from the Seattle PI’s David Horsey sums up Petraeus’s essential message yesterday:
Gen. Petraeus Testifies
Looks to me like we are supporting dictatorship of Iraq, under the guise of democracy. Why don’t we just call it what it is? If the population is under effective martial rule, how can we possibly call this anything other than “dictatorship” by another name?
We seem to have replaced one dictator with another. Sadam is gone. But bush rules. And Maliki “pretends” to “rule.” We’ve had an effective dictatorship at home. Dictating in Iraq as well!
If we had only been able to build bigger, permanent bases in S Vietnam, we could have won that war, maintained the draft, and have plenty of soldiers to handle Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, and whoever else we wanted to add to the Axis of Those-who-stand-in-the-way-of-big-money.
Yea, that’s why the Russians moved in to Cam Rahn Bay.
Curious, isn’t it, how we celebrate the Armistice Day and VE day, we have made veritable holidays out of ending wars, for all the right reasons.
Purim is the celebration of such magnitude, celebrating the salvation from destruction of the Jews in captivity, at the hand of Haman. And can anyone doubt that the entire world would celebrate the day, if Israel and Palestine were to find a way to make peace, lasting peace, surely we would make a holiday of it.
So, considering today is the anniversary of Lee’s surrender at Appomatox, isn’t is even more curious that we do not celebrate the end of the war that ended slavery in our nation? Maybe our deep south considers it a loss, but it was not, it was a victory for the entire world, and the deep south is still there, it hasn’t gone away, so why don’t we all celebrate this glorious day for what it is?
I would suggest that the same selfish and vile influences that keep us from celebrating the victory over slavery are at work in Iraq and in Israel. And they don’t look like Arabs, Israelis OR Americans, they really look like slick businessmen in silk suits and $100 neckties.
Thanks, I’m adding that to the post.
Good golly murnin’…….maybe this is just my off the wall thinking however it seems like Hillary is taking less blog flak since she has let up on attacks on candidate Obama and has critized McCrazy and McBush a little more. Maybe it’s just me.
“Looks to me like we are supporting dictatorship of Iraq, under the guise of democracy.”
A continued policy of divide and conquest… Deja Vu……..
Well, if you believe the purpose of the surge was to buy Bush another 18 months so he wouldn’t have to confront the problem of withdrawing on his watch, it’s been a great success.
I think that’s true. She’s also having to deal with the Columbia/Penn issue.
You’re very welcome & thanx for the h/t.
Post 9/11, Bush-Cheney made the strategic decision to turn the whole world into Israel v. Palestine – ad infinitum. It worked to get them reelected in ‘04. Next year the new president has to start from below sea level to get the U.S. back to sanity.
My wife is from Appo and her pop did the millwork when they rebuilt the McClain house. They call it the “Surrender Ground” there.
ot: P is giving the same opening for the third time? note to P – it doesn’t get any better with repetition.
Yes…this is exactly what the ’surge’ is ALL about. The ’surge = bought time..paid for in American blood and money, in my opinion.
That’s why I thought that they should skip the canned testimonies & devote the whole time to Qs. Not that those elicit much more info.
Holy Joe is about to scream “anti-Semitism”.
scripted…… just like Henley’s evening news….
do we americans think we have a directive from doG to rule the world and redeem from the people that are not us?
………
OT: on p&c show – nice comment on P’s use of the term “special groups”
What does McCain care how we spend the next 100 years? He doesn’t have very many left for himself.
i think these hearings would be greatly improved if you were in charge.
Me too. *g*
Anyone else want to see the raw data from these charts Betrayus keeps showing?
And really… the result of our “policy” there will end up arming what’s left of the remaining population by making security forces the only available jobs and leaving them to fight it out after we leave…
that way we can still sell them weapons and keep forces there to lend “aid”.
what about Westheusing?
http://www.democraticundergrou…..15;3123460
Oooh! Off script: Now the progress is merely reversible, not reversible and fragile. Guess the fragile got too much play in the press!
I”m hoping McCain will wonder over to the house committee hearings and explain the difference between obscure Shia and Sunni groups.
Or perhaps Lieberman could lecture on al Qaeda’s links to Iran.
What’s with the business of P referring to troops as troopers? Is that a new military fad?
You have a keen ear. I’m not even listening, though the sound is on.
Consider the attraction of the UAE for American bidness interests, including the PGA tour.
Economies built on slave wages.
I asked about that yesterday. Hugh did find a link to the charts themselves, but of course that’s a long way from the underlying data and how the charts were prepared.
The analogy of al-Sadr and his Mahdi militia to Hamas in Gaza is one that I have voiced for a few days. If al-Maliki attempts to force al-Sadr out of the political process, it will force more bloodshed. al-Sadr will make the election about the American occupation. He wants and needs the October election to be a referendum on setting a quick timetable for Americans to leave Iraq. He is using stolen oil money from Basra to equip his militia but most importantly they are feeding the poor and unemployed in soup kitchens all over Iraq.
When will our government ever learn that you can win the hearts and minds of its citizens if you only take care of the less fortunate rather than exploit them as we have done in New Orleans.
thanks for that PDF link Jim, been looking for those.
They hate you if you bomb them and like you if you provide essentials.
So guess which U.S. does? Which Sadr does?
Either the NYT or WaPo had a non-PDF link to the charts yesterday. Just the charts; not the data behind them.
It is good to see the origins of our current policy mentioned in the
question posed as the title to this piece. Of course it is like israel
in palestine and just about as legitimate. I do not see it changing
anytime soon due to the capture of the idea of democracy by the theocrats
in israel and the united states. The present electoral struggle should
have addressed this but it is not permitted to discuss an alternate
reality in palestine to the apartheid enforced there by the united states
and its client state friend… same plan for colombia being sold by bush
and his “brother” clinton. Troopers are indian killers, indian country
is where they do the killing for god and country.
Sometimes, amid all the chaos, it helps to take a step back.
19 guys — most whom were from Saudi Arabia — come to the US with $3 box cutters and commit heinous acts, killing over 3,000 people.
So what happens?
Because of our misadventures in Iraq, Saudi Arabia gets a five fold increase in oil revenue ($21/barrel in 2001 to today’s $105), we lose more 4000 lives and will have to tend to 30,000 other casualties.
And, oh yeah, toss 3 (with a “T”) trillion dollars down the flush hole.
And for what? Iraq, the US economy, and our military are all undeniably worse off today than before 2001.
The winners?
Saudi Arabia, Iran, Darth & Haliburton.
G’morning Scarecrow! We’re rising up out of chemo-land here today. Terrible as that is (for David, mostly), it affords us a few days’ apart from Bush-world.
JEP07, your comment is quite brilliant. We DO celebrate ends of wars, don’t we? No big hoo-ha about the day wars began, at least not until Bush took office. This is a humongous concept worth raising up and keeping before we the people.
So now the Eye of Sauron has rotated round to Afghanistan and Pakistan. (sigh) Do any of these people listen to anyone but each other?
From the AP link:
(((hugs to you and your David, barbara)))
According to the ‘League of Conservation Voters’ McCain’t’s National Enviromental record is “0″. Yes, zero. I hope this is in many ads this coming election.
http://lcv.org/scorecard/
Well, let’s remember Cheney’s words, that the burden of this war is hardest on Bush. So let’s not be nit-picking about a few more dead Iraqis. After all, we’re fighting there so we don’t have to fight here. Fah!
Thank you so much!
Google image search link for the charts, you can take your pick
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/…..ner-safer/
I can think of many failed societies that let history be the final determinate of suicidal policies employed by policy makers…………..
The application of reason and sound energy policies combined with sound economic growth related to “cost reductions” in the energy sector should be a priority of government for the benefit of the republic. Instead the blood and treasure of this nation has been misapplied to the perpetuation of an energy delivery system, which forces US to eat our own in the process! Dumb!! 11 $$ billion a day we American’s spend fueling out vehicles for just gas? This does not include the cost of sitting in traffic or, unnecessary driving. Meanwhile the cost of energy decimates our economy, while profits soar for certain corporate interests and our life liberty and happiness are in the hands of oil speculators??? Dumb!
Scarecrow:
Question asked, question answered. Well said.
Chalk that up to the business administration curriculum at every college
and university in the country. No more useless class of human debris ever
existed thasn the american fratboy bba, mba crowd… round them up, drop
them into afghanistan and put this country back to work.
Of course, we must not forget the one reason that Iraq is not Palestine to our being Israel. There is no way that the US is in danger from anything that is in Iraq, no matter what McCain says, so we have zero justification for being there.
To mccain that is a distinction without a difference, just ask lieberman
what mccain thinks for starters.
Good point
You can continue hearing here.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21…..6#22887506
Great Freudian slip from Skelton to Crocker: “You point out in your testiphony..” We need to use this word more, I like it.
any linky for house hearing stream? Just lost C-span to House proceedings
Thanks ECahn!
thanks so much eCAHN, it’s Scalia live on CSPAN 3 and CSPAN radio
also, here:
http://armedservices.house.gov/audiocast.shtml
CNN.com has streaming and the two committee websites will also stream today. Go to http://www.house.gov, click on committees and then go to Armed Services this morning and Foreign Affairs this afternoon. EcahnOMICS also gives the MSNBC link above.
yes, it would be good stategery in truthiness
Senate on CSPAN 2 — Lieberman is explaining Islamic theology — and why we have to stay in Iraq to check iran, now that we have al Qaeda on the run.
That would be priceless, but I’m addicted to testiphony.
this week i did the hearings list, all links to each hearing are there. (and sidebar has useful links too)
Four to five dollar gasoline will bring this sad story to an end. I can’t see much else at this point, even if the Dems win big in November. The only reason the Israeli’s have been able to maintain their grip on Palestine is because the United States heavily subsidizes their standard of living. At some point, people at home are going to demand that their standard of living get a bit of that subsidy.
up next . . .
Jeffrey Dahmer Lecture on Vegetarianism
Cheney on Checks and Balances
Opec Ministers on Alternative Energy
sorry. I’ll be over here
Senator jeff foxworthy up.
Lieberman — if we leave Iraq, the winner would be Iran, and we can’t let that happen.
Lindsey Graham says, “trust me.” We shouldn’t worry about our troops not coming home, because “they all volunteered.”
Thanks for the hearings schedule, Selise.
Don’t forget David Vitter on Abstinence.
Have there been any questions about Fallon, his resignation, his statements about Iran and his conflicts with Petraeus?
Deborah Palfrey’s lawyer also represented Lewinsky.
record week. almost 100 hearings scheduled.
mukasey is tomorrow.
Graham? Jeff Foxworthy doesn’t strike me as gay. The “Huckleberry” nickname, I assume, refers to the very gay Hound of the same name.
Wow. Petreus knows him some Iraqi geography.
Went back to read earlier comments. Conservatives ain’t got time to conserve, sunshine. Drove me to Merriam-Webster, because every so often, I need to reality check what “conservative” is supposed to mean.
And then this:
Theoretically, then, war-mongering is antithetical to conservation of anything — life, land, liberty. So what is the true definition of conservative in 2008?
Lieberman asks again that everyone should agree on the facts in Iraq; then he cites the example that fanatics killed 3000 people on 9/11.
The man is a walking conflation of truthiness and confusion.
Not when there are more influential and more motivated people on the other side relentlessly insisting those subsidies continue.
Cool. Charts from the Dems on overall cost. Way to go!
It’s about time, dontcha think?
Sex was not the criteria for me, just the chicken fried cynicism.
Lieberman — if we leave Iraq, the winner would be Iran, and we can’t let that happen.
Iran won the moment we went in.
Schmuck.
Not to mention lies.
It took almost 2 years for the feds to determine that his campaign hacked his own web site after blaming it on the Lamont campaign.
He’s nothing but a two bit crook in my book.
You know Scarecrow, you are really onto something here, there seems to be a copy-cat pattern or a mimic routine bewtwen the U.S. and Israel.
But which is the chicken and which is the egg?
Remember how, shortly after Bush got selected by the Supreme Court Jesters, Ariel Sharon went to the Temple Mound in aprovocative act that sparked off this latest, protracted round of violence and outright war between Israel and the Palestinians.
There’s the chicken…
The egg was laid by W in Iraq.
paralllels, indeed.
Just as no (D) presidential candidate will push for a remediation of the occupation of palestinian land using the leverage of the billions of dollars of ‘aid’ sent over to Tel Aviv every year, no (D) presidential candidate will run on a platform of ending the Iraq occupation.
but they need to:
http://www.prospect.org/cs/art…..ready_know
Dick Durbin doing the bit on blame the Iraqis for not wanting a country, and hitting Iraq for cashing in on oil prices while we pay costs of the war.
The word is Conservation
Not Conservative.
Hagee and Posse Party Down in West Bank
Fine post, Scarecrow. During the run-up and invasion, I use to abbreviate my opposition by saying that I didn’t think we needed our own Gaza. I hadn’t really thought that much about the details, but your post does a fine job of pointing out the precise similarities.
I wonder if it’s not intentional tactic to get the American people to face the facts this war will bankrupt us.
Otherwise, we did break Iraq.
I had really hoped that your link was to The Onion. This is just so sad and sick.
This is permissable demagoguery — barely — from a Senator who voted against the war. We’re not going to get out of Iraq by appealing to Americans’ refined moral sense. And remember the last time Durbin voiced his moral outrage — a blubbering recantation followed.
There are not any iraquis to want an iraq, it is an anglo-british idea
forced upon them by oil interests from the beginning.
Per http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..id=topnews
How can withdrawing jeopardize a surge whose only accomplishment is a reduction in U.S. combat casualties? WTF?
Someone should ask Petraeus if it was a mistake to invade Iraq? What were his views at the time? If it was a mistake then, it is a mistake now. What are we losing in addition to lives and trillions-face? The face we show to foreigners, especially brown ones, isn’t all that pretty.
Still the question remains-is there anything we can do except complain?
klynn at emptywheel links to Guardian article on “open-ended” U.S. presence.
This is why Knut’s notion that the public will just naturally get poor enough and fed up is wrong. The establishment have made a decision and they, with the exception of certain straight shooters, or loose cannons, like McCain, are not admitting it openly. The media, naturally, have assented to disappear the subject so that Iraq, in terms of public awareness, might as well be Japan or Germany.
These hearings, and this election, are important: we cannot allow them to manufacture the “consensus” to stay permanently.
Something explosively accusatory leveled at this pissant Petraeus, such as, for example, portraying him as a politically ambitious yes-men as compared to Fallon, might be nice.
Al Haig, all over again… on the fast track to corporate boards if not
politics.
More like MacArthur.
Ha, ha, haaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!
Thanks for that link…PERFECT!
More from Juan Cole:
http://www.juancole.com/
Go and read the post. The best part of his thread:
Sadr Calls off Demonstration;
Threatens to End Cease-Fire;
McCain confuses al-Qaeda with Shiites (Again)
(my bold)
The root faults of both McCain’s analysis and that of other hard liners both here at home and in Israel, is that first they continually label ‘others’ who would die for their cause as ‘terrorists’, while we, or the Israelis’ “bravely lay our lives on the line for our cause”.
And, these hard liners continue to believe that by showing off a few bunker busters,like when the US and Israel recently bombed an empty Syrian factory to scare the Iranians, that the Iraqi’s, the Lebonese, and the Iranians are all going to cave in and give up what little they have, on lands they’ve owned since time began -and lands the very authors of the bible were sitting on when it was first written. Jesus was a Palestininan.
It’s time Israel moved – after 60 years they have zero friends left in the region due to their own conduct. And endanger too many lives with their presence in that location. Surely the US has a few islands they can give them where they can be just as Independent and free as they wish and no neighbors to worry about? Surely the Aussies and the Brits – oh and don’t forget Poland -can help them financially??
It’s time for a change- there too.
What is this vicious trollery?