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	<title>Comments on: How Did Yoo Manage to Leave Out Youngstown Steel?</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/09/how-did-yoo-manage-to-leave-out-youngstown-steel/</link>
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		<title>By: ColoDave</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/09/how-did-yoo-manage-to-leave-out-youngstown-steel/#comment-1381803</link>
		<dc:creator>ColoDave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/09/how-did-yoo-manage-to-leave-out-youngstown-steel/#comment-1381803</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, MacRanger has the answer:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Macranger&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;April 10th, 2008 at 8:19 am&lt;br /&gt;
2&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Amateur lawyers at FDL aside, the opinion in Youngstown v. Sawyer, which was the Government’s attempt to o avert a nation-wide strike of steel workers in April 1952, isn’t even remotely similar in scope. Additionally subsequent rulings notwithstanding the War Powers act give the President authority.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sorry, no dice.&lt;br /&gt;
“”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This must be one smart a$$!!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.macsmind.com/wordpress/2008/04/10/if-at-first-you-dont-succeed-2/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.macsmind.com/wordpr.....succeed-2/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, MacRanger has the answer:</p>
<p>Macranger</p>
<p>April 10th, 2008 at 8:19 am<br />
2</p>
<p>Amateur lawyers at FDL aside, the opinion in Youngstown v. Sawyer, which was the Government’s attempt to o avert a nation-wide strike of steel workers in April 1952, isn’t even remotely similar in scope. Additionally subsequent rulings notwithstanding the War Powers act give the President authority.</p>
<p>Sorry, no dice.<br />
“”</p>
<p>This must be one smart a$$!!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.macsmind.com/wordpress/2008/04/10/if-at-first-you-dont-succeed-2/" rel="nofollow">http://www.macsmind.com/wordpr&#8230;..succeed-2/</a></p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/09/how-did-yoo-manage-to-leave-out-youngstown-steel/#comment-1381589</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 05:29:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/09/how-did-yoo-manage-to-leave-out-youngstown-steel/#comment-1381589</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Jack Balkin notes the ABC News article claiming that torture methods were approved at the highest levels inside the White House and tries to dampen expectations for domestic or international war crimes trials.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Even a Democratic administration would be loathe, he observes, to use up scarce political capital in attempting to indict or prosecute anyone in the Bush administration.  Foreign governments that might be tempted to do so would have to confront persuasive efforts, considerably weightier than Chile’s, that indicting and trying former senior American officials is not consistent with a good longterm relationship with the United States.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think those are fair points.  But if a Clinton or Obama administration follows Jack’s logic, I think it needs to do at least two things.  One, investigate the hell out of the most prominent claims.  No doubt several will reveal domestic crimes within the administration, Congress and the private sector that cry out for criminal prosecutions.  Rapes and murders by private contractors in Iraq and billion dollar frauds against the US taxpayer come to mind.  Selected political prosecutions, clearly beyond any reasonable understanding of prosecutorial discretion, are another.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Two.  Those dozens of investigations that do not proceed to prosecution or trial will nevertheless document extensive government excess, which will provide adequate justification, if any were needed, to undo much of what this administration has wrought. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s what Obama or Clinton should focus on (not forgetting two active wars, a budget deficit bigger than Cheney’s ego, a possible financial meltdown, etc.).  The list is as endless as this administration’s excesses.  It should include revoking much or all of the reprehensible MCA and other fig leaves for this administration’s lawlessness; closing our secret prisons, most of whose inmates should be set free with apologies and reparations, with others going to trial or being set free for time served because no credible case can be presented that does not rely on torture-derived evidence; revising or canceling hundreds of outsourcing contracts; and replacing probably dozens of Executive Orders and OLC opinions based on bad law.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The littlest of those is sure to bring screams of outrage from the Orrin Hatches and Matt Drudges and Grover Norquists.  Democrats should toughen their hides, and polish up their counter-PR machine.  They’ll need it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack Balkin notes the ABC News article claiming that torture methods were approved at the highest levels inside the White House and tries to dampen expectations for domestic or international war crimes trials.</p>
<p>Even a Democratic administration would be loathe, he observes, to use up scarce political capital in attempting to indict or prosecute anyone in the Bush administration.  Foreign governments that might be tempted to do so would have to confront persuasive efforts, considerably weightier than Chile’s, that indicting and trying former senior American officials is not consistent with a good longterm relationship with the United States.</p>
<p>I think those are fair points.  But if a Clinton or Obama administration follows Jack’s logic, I think it needs to do at least two things.  One, investigate the hell out of the most prominent claims.  No doubt several will reveal domestic crimes within the administration, Congress and the private sector that cry out for criminal prosecutions.  Rapes and murders by private contractors in Iraq and billion dollar frauds against the US taxpayer come to mind.  Selected political prosecutions, clearly beyond any reasonable understanding of prosecutorial discretion, are another.</p>
<p>Two.  Those dozens of investigations that do not proceed to prosecution or trial will nevertheless document extensive government excess, which will provide adequate justification, if any were needed, to undo much of what this administration has wrought. </p>
<p>That’s what Obama or Clinton should focus on (not forgetting two active wars, a budget deficit bigger than Cheney’s ego, a possible financial meltdown, etc.).  The list is as endless as this administration’s excesses.  It should include revoking much or all of the reprehensible MCA and other fig leaves for this administration’s lawlessness; closing our secret prisons, most of whose inmates should be set free with apologies and reparations, with others going to trial or being set free for time served because no credible case can be presented that does not rely on torture-derived evidence; revising or canceling hundreds of outsourcing contracts; and replacing probably dozens of Executive Orders and OLC opinions based on bad law.</p>
<p>The littlest of those is sure to bring screams of outrage from the Orrin Hatches and Matt Drudges and Grover Norquists.  Democrats should toughen their hides, and polish up their counter-PR machine.  They’ll need it.</p>
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		<title>By: cal1942</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/09/how-did-yoo-manage-to-leave-out-youngstown-steel/#comment-1381440</link>
		<dc:creator>cal1942</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 03:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/09/how-did-yoo-manage-to-leave-out-youngstown-steel/#comment-1381440</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;““Can there be such a thing as a restraining order that keeps a president from being able to issue pardons?”&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No.  The power to pardon is a plenary power spelled out in Article 2.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>““Can there be such a thing as a restraining order that keeps a president from being able to issue pardons?”</em></p>
<p>No.  The power to pardon is a plenary power spelled out in Article 2.</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/09/how-did-yoo-manage-to-leave-out-youngstown-steel/#comment-1381405</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 03:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/09/how-did-yoo-manage-to-leave-out-youngstown-steel/#comment-1381405</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Good points.  I don’t think it needs to be either or, and I wouldn’t underestimate the pressure of history and tradition.  In Yoo’s case, I would say the reasons are cumulative, all in favor of unbridled executive authority.  It is, however, the kind of authority exercised in fact by South Korean heads of state through the 1960’s.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points.  I don’t think it needs to be either or, and I wouldn’t underestimate the pressure of history and tradition.  In Yoo’s case, I would say the reasons are cumulative, all in favor of unbridled executive authority.  It is, however, the kind of authority exercised in fact by South Korean heads of state through the 1960’s.</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/09/how-did-yoo-manage-to-leave-out-youngstown-steel/#comment-1381397</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 03:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/09/how-did-yoo-manage-to-leave-out-youngstown-steel/#comment-1381397</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In principle, your daughter has a good argument.  I think the distinction is that Yoo is not being criticized or condemned for expressing his political beliefs outside the classroom in a way that his political opponents find offensive.  If that were the standard, academics would lose their jobs faster than McCain can flip flop.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Nor is it that Yoo represented a client many find offensive, as criminal lawyers sometimes do, or that he acted offensively in zealously representing his clients viewpoints or interests.  Had he done that, it would be unfair to confuse his clients behavior or views with his.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s that Yoo’s actions as a government &lt;em&gt;lawyer &lt;/em&gt;are allegedly criminal and brought both the law and his government into disrepute.  Mr. Yoo is not simply exercising his First Amendment rights, he has corruptly practiced law to enable criminal conduct.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obviously, there’s a proof problem; some of those are unproven allegations.  But his published memos go a long way toward meeting that burden.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In principle, your daughter has a good argument.  I think the distinction is that Yoo is not being criticized or condemned for expressing his political beliefs outside the classroom in a way that his political opponents find offensive.  If that were the standard, academics would lose their jobs faster than McCain can flip flop.  </p>
<p>Nor is it that Yoo represented a client many find offensive, as criminal lawyers sometimes do, or that he acted offensively in zealously representing his clients viewpoints or interests.  Had he done that, it would be unfair to confuse his clients behavior or views with his.</p>
<p>It’s that Yoo’s actions as a government <em>lawyer </em>are allegedly criminal and brought both the law and his government into disrepute.  Mr. Yoo is not simply exercising his First Amendment rights, he has corruptly practiced law to enable criminal conduct.</p>
<p>Obviously, there’s a proof problem; some of those are unproven allegations.  But his published memos go a long way toward meeting that burden.</p>
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		<title>By: bgrothus</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/09/how-did-yoo-manage-to-leave-out-youngstown-steel/#comment-1381357</link>
		<dc:creator>bgrothus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 02:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Did the liberal professors have the power or ever write anything to promote the idea that the executive branch is allowed to order torture, not in the abstract as an argument, but as something that would become practice?  I thought not.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did the liberal professors have the power or ever write anything to promote the idea that the executive branch is allowed to order torture, not in the abstract as an argument, but as something that would become practice?  I thought not.</p>
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		<title>By: malcolm</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/09/how-did-yoo-manage-to-leave-out-youngstown-steel/#comment-1381343</link>
		<dc:creator>malcolm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 02:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/09/how-did-yoo-manage-to-leave-out-youngstown-steel/#comment-1381343</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for a great post.  It’s a million years since I read Youngstown in law school and past time for a reminder.  On Yoo, one of my daughters went to Boalt and had him as her con law professor.  I rang her the day the memo came out and said, as an alum, you’ve got to make your voice heard on this.  Now my daughter is as progressive as one can be, but she was reluctant to do so for two reasons.  First, she thought he was a good con law professor and did not impose his own views on the Constitution in class.  Second, she thought that if views expressed out of class were used to deprive one right wing professor of tenure, fifty progressive professors would be deprived of tenure for the same reason.  The second reason seems fairly cogent to me, but I don’t know.  Is it a slippery slope?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for a great post.  It’s a million years since I read Youngstown in law school and past time for a reminder.  On Yoo, one of my daughters went to Boalt and had him as her con law professor.  I rang her the day the memo came out and said, as an alum, you’ve got to make your voice heard on this.  Now my daughter is as progressive as one can be, but she was reluctant to do so for two reasons.  First, she thought he was a good con law professor and did not impose his own views on the Constitution in class.  Second, she thought that if views expressed out of class were used to deprive one right wing professor of tenure, fifty progressive professors would be deprived of tenure for the same reason.  The second reason seems fairly cogent to me, but I don’t know.  Is it a slippery slope?</p>
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		<title>By: masaccio</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/09/how-did-yoo-manage-to-leave-out-youngstown-steel/#comment-1381332</link>
		<dc:creator>masaccio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 02:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/09/how-did-yoo-manage-to-leave-out-youngstown-steel/#comment-1381332</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I really hope you are right.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really hope you are right.</p>
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		<title>By: sailmaker</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/09/how-did-yoo-manage-to-leave-out-youngstown-steel/#comment-1381312</link>
		<dc:creator>sailmaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 02:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yoo emigrated from Korea as a child.  His history degree from Harvard, his law degree from Yale, his studies for the Pennsylvania bar, as well as his teaching experiences at UCB should have mitigated the Asiatic Confucian norm that power legitimizes those that hold it. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yoo apparently did maintain the “Obedience to hierarchy ” more, but the rational is much closer at hand: ambition.               he was such a good servant IMO because it is the way to get ahead in a Republican administration - U.S.A  Mary Beth Bucanan (and probably countless others) fell into the same trap.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yoo emigrated from Korea as a child.  His history degree from Harvard, his law degree from Yale, his studies for the Pennsylvania bar, as well as his teaching experiences at UCB should have mitigated the Asiatic Confucian norm that power legitimizes those that hold it. </p>
<p>Yoo apparently did maintain the “Obedience to hierarchy ” more, but the rational is much closer at hand: ambition.               he was such a good servant IMO because it is the way to get ahead in a Republican administration &#8211; U.S.A  Mary Beth Bucanan (and probably countless others) fell into the same trap.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/09/how-did-yoo-manage-to-leave-out-youngstown-steel/#comment-1381277</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 01:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/09/how-did-yoo-manage-to-leave-out-youngstown-steel/#comment-1381277</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;terrorists aren’t covered under the geneva convention, wrap your brain around that one.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;it should win a prize or something.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Nope. Look up “lawful enemy combatant” “unlawful enemy combatant” (or leave out the ‘enemy’ part) and “enemy combatant”.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Which one doesn’t fit?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>terrorists aren’t covered under the geneva convention, wrap your brain around that one.</p>
<p>it should win a prize or something.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Nope. Look up “lawful enemy combatant” “unlawful enemy combatant” (or leave out the ‘enemy’ part) and “enemy combatant”.</p>
<p>Which one doesn’t fit?</p>
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