What if you were held, indefinitely, on charges you didn't know based on evidence you couldn't see and against which you couldn't defend yourself and, even through all of that you were somehow found to be not guilty, but you were marched right back to your cell and held indefinitely despite a finding of innocence? Jeffrey Toobin has a disturbing look at Gitmo that paints a grim picture of the topsy turvy version of rule of law in Bushworld. To wit:
...There is only a limited right to appeal, but each detainee receives an annual review of his status in another hearing. “We look at two questions,” Garber told me above the hum of the air-conditioners. “Are they still a threat? Do they still have intelligence value? A yes to either one is enough to keep them.” The tribunals have been widely criticized as one-sided—Eugene R. Fidell, a noted American expert on military law, has called them a “sham”—and, according to Garber, last year only thirteen per cent of the detainees agreed to participate in or attend their own annual review hearings....
...there is a heads-I-win, tails-you-lose quality to the proceedings. If a defendant is acquitted, he need not be released; he can simply be returned to detainee status at Guantánamo, to remain in custody until the end of the war on terror—raising the question of what sort of recourse the proceedings really provide.
We are holding these people indefinitely, with no real recourse to habeas now under the MCA, while George Bush's "forever war" spins on, incompetently waged, insuring that it will never end. The hearings are more akin to a probable cause proceeding or a grand jury where the defendant is forced to face the jurors while secret evidence is shown to them. As Marty discusses, the SCOTUS has expressly rejected detention solely for purposes of interrogation without a showing of bad acts...and yet, there they are in Gitmo limbo.
With the release of the latest Yoo memorandum, the argument for this Kafkaesque detention sounds even more like a warped Queen of Hearts: "Off With Their Lives, Guilty Or Not." But lawyers for detainees have picked up the accountability banner, and the first defense brief to argue against detention based on faulty Yoo foundational reasoning was filed this week. Via SCOTUSBlog:
In Monday’s filing, Al-Marri’s counsel argued that the Yoo memo “further demonstrates that al-Marri’s detention lacks legal basis.” It notes that the memo has been “repudiated by the Justice Department.” The filing also points out that the government has indicated that President Bush relied in part on the memo in deciding to name Al-Marri as an “enemy combatant.”
“In sum,” the filing argues, “the President designated al-Marri an ‘enemy combatant’ based upon an erroneous legal analysis, and to uphold his detention is to endorse the result of an analysis that even the Justice Department has repudiated.”
As Scott Horton points out, Cheney favorite Jim Haynes -- whose stealth campaign to undermine JAG values was waged within DOD -- is now under seige to explain his role in the various Yoo memoranda, and potential perjury before Senate Armed Services. As Digby emphasizes, a number of the JAG lawyers have been heroes, standing up to the Bush/Cheney assault on the rule of law and justice from inside the DOD. Those who remained steadfast should be lauded -- would that the people trying to tear down the notions of justice weren't at the highest reaches of our own government. One of those values ought to be standing up for a fair trail -- a real one, not some fake Kafkaesque 30 minute sham in a metal trailer.
When the full story of what has occurred behind the scenes of the Bush Administration, the full reaches of their attempts to undermine American values are exposed to public sunshine, even the most cynical among us are likely to be shocked. Can't happen soon enough...
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zo?
It is Texas law, writ large.
I sure hope these folks are tried for war crimes. Impeachment isn’t even enough (as if we could move Nancy anyway.)
286 days to go.
Never happen. The best we can hope for is that they one day experience the law of karma.
Morning all — coffee, anyone?
“incompetently waged, insuring that it will never end.”
There’s the conundrum, Christy. Their own imcompetence assures their continued profits.
…seriously, why else would they want to insure that it would never end?
There’s a lot of profit to be made by holding wars in foreign lands, and all the contrived ideology and poser opinion that the wingnut media spins around it is just a berka covering their greed.
We have handed our most precious powers over to the most profane people. And they have used it to make war for profit.
Sorry to simplify your comprehensive post, but after watching Obama’s work yesterday, I’m one proud American today. For the first time since the Supreme Court Jesters handed Bush his usurped scepter, I have hope that our nation will be able to heal in it’s wounded psyche.
If it is possible to get 40k signatures on the McCain petition just from FDL, what if the whole blogosphere went for 1,000,000 signatures to send Bush to the Hague?
Think Tweety would ignore it?
Yea but it gives us something to talk about endlessly. . .that oughta count for something. Let’s hear it for Paraguay!
From the Reuter’s story in the newsbox:
We would all owe Bush a debt of gratitude if his legacy includes turning the Republic Party into a small regional party. Unfortunately, Harry and Nancy are determined to keep that from happening.
The problem is that while there are certainly folks at Gitmo who would strike at the USA if released, I have absolutely no confidence that the currect process is properly identifying them.
Worse, I am certain there are innocent people at Gitmo.
And to top it all off, there’s absolutely NO hope that any of those will get anything remotely resembling a fair hearing until we have regime change.
If I were the president elect, I’d personally attend those trials. And I’d personally make the decisions on who to hold. And I’d make sure that the hearings were fair enough to pass US court muster with a non-Bush appointee.
Boxturtle (it’s real tough to picket the chinese dissident gulags while thinking about Gitmo)
i bet Christy looked like Alice,when she was youngster….and boy we are all in attendence of THE MAD HATTERS tea party now….
Tweety’s too busy watching himself on teevee to even notice.
This is the most disturbing facet of the Bush administration to me. Human Rights violations. I feel so powerless in a country where one voice, or many voices used to me something. And yet, I think am I fooling myself?? Look at our history. It really seems to me, that the United States of America with all it’s focus on human rights and equality has been a bit of sham. I think about the american indians, slavery, the american japanese concentration camps, it’s not like this is new behavior. It’s consistent. I think the american people really have an identity problem here. We have got to decide that we stand for something and mean it. And maybe the truth I don’t want to face is that we are not what we say we are, and never have been.
China’s foreign ministry reacted more forcefully.
“We express our strong condemnation to the deliberate disruption of the Olympic torch relay by Tibetan separatist forces regardless of the Olympic spirit and the law of Britain and France,” China spokeswoman Jiang Yu said Tuesday. “Their despicable activities tarnish the lofty Olympic spirit and challenge all the people loving the Olympic Games around the world.”
Morning, Christy — the sun is shining in Upstate New York this morning.
Of course not. He’d simply point out that 1M is less than a half of a percent of Americas population, thus 99.9% do NOT favor sending Bush to the Hague.
But for our own souls, we must still do our best to get BushCo there. We may fail, but morality required us to help clean up our own mess.
Boxturtle (Hope it gets cleaned up in my lifetime, but I doubt it)
Mornin’ Christy,
read that Digby piece in the early am hours - I didn’t recall the Diaz story amidst the various horrors and scandals - and simply wept.
my god what of those 7 who convicted him - how could they have missed that it could happen to them ?? makes me think of all the Dem govs who stood by and said nothing while Siegelman was persecuted
I know less than nothing about Military Law - does he have any shot at exoneration ?
Be glad we’re not hosting this year. The world’s scorn for us would be very visible. And they would be right.
last nite i was contemplating that LITTLE CHARADE,that was the Senate hearings…..there is a conspiracy to deraud the American public…the conspirators are the Neo-Cons atthe top of the food chain,their supporters Republicans and Dinos,their cheerleadersthe media,and the dupes………………….us
Sort of OT, but amusing:
TPM is reporting the Feds have completed their investigation and report on JoeL’s website meltdown in 2006. They concluded it was the server, not sabotage.
We have already done so, I fear.
But HOW? How does it work? Can they send agents here to pick all of these folks up? Is this why the Secret SErvice wants to continue their “detail” around Cheney for six months after he leaves? Hmm? But how does the whole international criminal court work? Would they respond to 1M signatures on a petition that said “Please come hold these guys accountable because we don’t have the stuff to do it ourselves?”
The olympics have degenerated into a disneyesque sham fit for china to
host, market and trash the rest of the way out… time for another paradigm.
Well, even when you get your day in court, reach a plea bargain, you still can’t get out of jail, as in the case of Sami al-Arian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_Al-Arian
Tageris figured it out that day. JoeLie’s web host was a small co. and the bandwith they had purchased was paltry. Any traffic to the site would have brought it down. They didn’t need any help and Lamont’s folks were honest. It was all a stunt and we knew it. The press. Well, they got duped. Again.
oh and the fraud is spending our Social Security,on an illegal war, to secure petroleum and infrastructure profits for a few corporations who contributed to Bushco…his base
christy - fyi, looks like mukasey will be testifying before the senate appropriations committee tomorrow (pdf)
Can we petition the UN to file sanctions and resolutions on the US? Granted, I know that the Bush administration can veto any resolution of the UN but it could be a powerful message to Americans if the entire world body passed a resolution condemining America for the actions that America has condemened other countries for committing.
Does anyone know the whereabouts of Mark Penn? On the other hand, if the unruly Tibetan sympathizers turn out to be employees of the People’s Republic, it might be Rove.
I have that sinking Rabbit Hole feeling myself.
I had two celebrity sitings yesterday. I saw Patrick Fitzgerald in the checkout line at the Berghoff Cafe during lunch. And last night I saw Markos Moulitsas give a talk at Northwestern University.
and this guy made it all happen,
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said on Tuesday the U.S. economy was in recession, and said it would be appropriate to tap public funds to resolve the mortgage-related crisis that has helped pull the economy under.
In an interview with CNBC television in which he defended his chairmanship of the U.S. central bank against charges that his policy missteps had laid the groundwork for the current crisis, Greenspan said Fed decisions on his watch were rationally constructed based on evidence at the time.
“I have no regrets on any of the Federal Reserve policies that we initiated back then because I think they were very professionally done,” Greenspan said.
Right now, I’m not sure. We’ve not signed the treaty, so a complaint from the USA wouldn’t work. Likewise, Iraq hasn’t signed either so no complaint from there works.
The most likely source help for us comes from Europe. I think that if a eurpoean citizen was directly effected, his home counrty could file. But nobody is going to do that while BushCo still rules.
What I hope will happen is that the next president will sign the treaty and get it through the Senate. Then the ACLU could file with the WCJ.
Boxturtle (Cheney doing the perp walk. We need Jibjab to do a song about that)
From the look of him, he is not far from the cheese blintz tray.
Good advice for Yoo.
Did you ever think you would see the Magna Carta ignored or, indeed, consciously discarded? These people are acting like the worse kind of royalty, and We the People are being treated as though we should not be allowed to determine our own fates. What happens to the Gitmo prisoners sounds like what used to be done to Princes in the Tower, to wretches in the dungeons.
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!
In the FDL Book Salon with AJ Rossmiller last February, he and I had the following exchange about how the detainees ended up in places like Abu Ghraib and Gitmo in the first place.
My comment to AJ:
AJ’s reply:
It was a great chat, with someone who was there on the inside at the Pentagon. Sad to say, it doesn’t appear that the folks who are at the DOD and DOJ today have figured out a way to undo the damage they have done — nor do they appear to be concerned about undoing it. It would mean admitting that they made mistakes in detaining folks to begin with.
The result of the rise of the prosecutor as the hero of justice in the
american system, defense counsel is the enemy, even in petty court action
these days… thank you television.
and it all started with a big lie
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/040808J.shtml
The recession is due to Bush economic policies and his tax cuts for himself, his family, and his cronies. When McCain promises to continue these, the MSM simply reports that rather than laughing him out of the room.
Perry Mason…hahahahahahahaha
When a Republics does it, that means it is not lying.
Maestro Merde,of course like all good repukes,takes NO responsibility
That has been replaced by csi, law and order, ad nauseum thin blue line
cop crybaby shows… ding.
that is the very basis ,of all the criminality,imo…lies which turned this country upside down
fear sells baby!
Yep, sells like hotcakes, lives like hell.
OT if someone else has not already pointed this out, there is an article at the WaPo discussing some of Petraeus’ charts from yesterday, you know the ones Lieberman said showed the “facts”. Unsuprisingly, the WaPo finds that they do not show what they purport to show. Wouldn’t it be nice if some Congressmen/women would ask him about them today?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....s_politics
i forget the % ,but its high…..the people incarcerated in Merika
ah, t’were it so…sigh
Question…. unable to get kos to load…. anyone having that problem?
that DOG and Pony show yesterday needs to be called out for what it was,and all the enablers asked for the facts of why they support more,SLAUGHTER,murder,and torture
me
Gah! Am trying to help The Peanut with a craft project to make a couple of “suncatchers” that involves these insanely tiny little plastic pellets that do not want to go in the right segments. This is some form of parental torture…and I needed to say it out loud. They didn’t say on the package that it would involve copious amounts of internal swearing…
yep in both ff and ie
I’d also like someone to ask how withdrawing can jeopardize the success of a surge whose only accomplishment has been to reduce U.S. casualties. I simply don’t get it, and don’t understand when people aren’t laughing at him.
good luck with that…how about popsickle sticks and elmers glue,with a few,little crystals?
320. Home of the free. According to a February 28, 2008 study by the Pew Center for the States, 1% of the US adult population was behind bars. This comes to 2,319,258 Americans as of January 1, 2008. Of these, 1,596,127 were in prison. The federal system contained 198,989 inmates. State systems held another 1,397,138. 723,131 were in local jails. Those incarcerated did not reflect the American population as a whole. Based on 2006 midyear numbers from the DOJ’s Bureau of Justice Statistics, the rate for Hispanic men (18 and older) was one in 36; for African-American men (18 and older), it was one in 15. For younger African-American men between the ages of 20 and 34, it was one in 9.
The United States incarcerates its citizens more than any other country in the world. To put this all in perspective, the number 2 country in the world in terms of prison population is China. It has a penal population of 1.5 million, in other words 800,000 fewer than the US but with 4 times the population. The US prison population is so large because of the greater tendency for offenders to be sent to jail and kept there for longer periods than in other countries. The size of the US prison population is a national disgrace. While the Bush Administration wishes to give “Get out of jail free” cards to telecoms or minions like Scooter Libby, ordinary Americans, especially minority Americans, are not so fortunate. As so often happens in this Administration, policies are carried out without any regard for their consequences as long as those consequences are borne by others.
Seven tenths of a percent, 25% of the world prison population.
There’s a whole buncha people in the joint that need to be in the joint.
Digby nailed it…Biden gave them a question they had to admit to…game set match
Pew is a better number than the one I found, thanks.
True too, just too many small fry.
A small straw can be good for loading the little suckers into, then unloading into the segments. Better than my large fingers, anyway…
Got to leave for work, but a quick question since I don’t have time to Google it- Does anyone know if either Petraeus or Crocker speak & read & write Arabic? How about Persian (AKA Farsi)? Or who on their immediate staffs do? I seem to recall from somewhere that perhaps Crocker does.
Thanks for any replies. Have to go. Read you all later.
And I’m sure that after putting this post together — with its 21 links! — your internal swear suppression circuits were about maxed out before you even sat down!
I’m still surfing the links above, and let’s just say I’m glad my little one is off at Kindergarten right now.
Ambassador Lyan Crocker speaks Farsi and Arabic - per his wiki page
2,319,258?
PEW’s percentage is based on the adult population. 0.7% would be for the population as a whole.
Any word on whether the uighurs have been released from Guantanamo yet? That’s been going on since late 2003, but last I read, remains unresolved
for most of them. Apparently five have been resettled in Albania (some say we did some arm twisting and the Albanians did some pandering.) A few years ago one of their lawyers wrote a very moving account in support of his client and the others still incarcerated, but I’d be willing to bet that they are still mostly chained to the ground and languishing in their cells. Disgusting!
o/t
raw story has this tantalizing little nugget up -
EXCLUSIVE: BUSH US ATTORNEY TARGETED MY WIFE, MISSISSIPPI JUSTICE SAYS: DEVELOPING…
Scott Horton to the Torquemada courtesy telephone. . .
Tweety in Ralph Wiggum’s voice:
” Look, I object shiny.”
When I was in China in 2001 (before 9/11), I asked our first guide to tell us about various religions in China. (A e described various religions, but notably left out Islam. While I knew it at the time, it was not high up in my memory and I didn’t call him on it. Always regretted that sin of ommisssion.
Christy,
I have been asking myself those philosophical questions how did we get to this? How did the Rule of Law get so twisted?
For me, it has boiled down to the notions of “control” and being the “winning” power or controller. Simplistic, I know…
In doing research on the history of “Fair Play” socially and in the development of our Constitution I found an interesting quote on the role of Fair Play in sport:
Now, we are beyond “acceptable foul” and are twisting the rules into a lie that we look like we are playing fairly … but DEFINITELY are not.
I agree, as we learn more we will be shocked…
With this crumbling of “fair play” our country has diverted our long standing foreign policy record. Paul Kurtz wrote:
Of course our foundational push of Fair Play and Good Will have their original roots in Natural Law. Because of the intersection between natural law and natural rights, this intersection has been cited as a component in United States Declaration of Independence.
Beyond the erosion of “Fair Play,” much has gone down the pike to erode our legal practice of it in policy. Obviously, Wesley Newcomb Hohfeld has been a hero for this administration with his “roughly comparable empowerment mode…power, disability, liabilty,immunity…” Yoo must find him a hero of sorts… especially on the front of immunity…
(all my bold)
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/33079.html
Why is this important? He is the lawyer the Pentagon has assigned to defend Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the “mastermind” of the 9/11 attack.
Don’t get me wrong. From the story, he seems like a very stand up kind of guy but add in to his lack of experience all the roadblocks that Guantanamo and the Military Commissions Act raise as well as the fact that his defense team consists of “another lawyer, an investigator and a paralegal” and what you have is a heavily stacked deck. My question is Why couldn’t the Pentagon find a single career military JAG with experience in capital cases and provide him/her with adequate resources to mount a defense of the most important terrorist in US custody?
OT Christy! I apologize for carrying my boombox through the living room during last Sunday’s morning social!
I’m away from the toobz this weekend, but can I make it up to you with an acoustic set the following Sunday? It won’t be Decaf, but definitely a mellow Breakfast Blend…
Yeah, at least around half the people on death row In Mich. Too bad about the other half.
Chris Floyd has weighed in on this question. He may be a bit beyond the pale ideologically for a (D) party cheerleading site, but is his reasoning sound?
I have to believe that W’s plan to run show trials right before the election will backfire. The deck is so stacked, I think even the corporate media will see thru it. But maybe I’m being too optimistic. It hasn’t paid to be optimistic while W’s been in office.
He’s also quite accomplished in gobblydegook and Rovian Math …
LOL — Looking forward to it…
Well, wait Christy ..because just when you think you’ve heard it all -there’s always more coming from this group.
Law.com is reporting that we may be about to hear Scalia join in with Cheney’s now infamous one version of F*** You, ..”So?”
After years of beating the public and the media to death apparently Scalia is going to/or has consented to be interviewed by a major news source.
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.....s=newswire
Why now? He’s got a book to sell ..
And just in time for summer camp fires I might add…?
Morning Raven - Blame the victim. Always blame the victim. I beat my wife because she made me do it. The Tibetan monks acted bad again today when they ran out of their monastery to meet journalists.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/
I’m not certain it’s altogether sound, but it certainly is angry — which, frankly under the circumstances, is understandable. But as distasteful as it may be on a personal level, the political considerations do have to be factored into the evaluation because, ultimately, the process would be run by politicians. And that’s the truth of it. Pressure from the outside for more exposure of wrongdoing leading to more hearings which might prove to be the catalyst for something more is, alas, the most we can hope for under the present leadership, I’m afraid…
Oh joy. /s
What are the odds that Nino would consent to an FDL Book Salon appearance?
*g*
well.. this is not entirely without precedent. Latin American military dictators used to have a pet concept, “detained at the pleasure of the president” :)… usually meaning indefinate detention without trial or charge, under torture, followed by “release” (usually in the form of being thrown from a military aircraft, into the sea). This is basically what Yoo’s memo says Shrub can do, right (well, possibly without the thrown from an airplane part)? Shrub’s in good company here, as usual.
ot - Pelosi to Block Vote on Colombia
I was listening to an interview about the ICC on CBC last week. The officials of the court have received something like 3000 suggestions for cases to try, with American actions among them. They have selected four cases for trial, one of them a warlord who is alleged to have committed genocide in Sudan (I think - I forget, but one of the countries in that region). The woman interviewed quoted someone from the ICC who did not think the actions of the US rose (or sank) to the level of some of these others - and were unlikely to come to trial.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Oh, you card, you…
scalia was on cspan3 this morning - i couldnt watch - anyone here see him? and i have no confidence should dems win the WH and retain congress they’ll start any.. war crimes trials or take rove et al to task… just my thought..
Top of the morning to you, Christy!
It feels hopeless and trapped in the forever catch 22 with the Bush/Cheney Rule of Lawless but somewhere deep in my psychi I know that repeated exposure will ultimately become more powerful than walking away throwing my hands up.
I wonder where do I go for justice with my Congress weak as stagnant water - Hearings and more hearings like the bridge going from nowhere to nowhere. But still the hearings are a record and this administration will be judged.
Too bad people aren’t protesting Chinese poisonous food and medicine additives…and toys and slave workers and slave wages.hmmmmmm maybe Bush will give China a medal of freedum or sumpin’
thnx - I wish more politicians were more strongly on the side of justice, and could transcend the CW on political expediencies, and “create their own reality” as it were.
oils up…….. $111.00
Shrub considers that progress
yes….. increased pain on Americans fighting hard not to say “uncle!”
Yeah, Peterr, you could have him on back to back with Feith. Like a pair of bookends!
I’ve become a paranoid. Everytime I drive across the border into the US to buy gasoline, I have this brief moment of fear, generated by the knowledge that if they wanted to lock me up and send me away, there is nothing I could do about it. I’m an American citizen, and there is nothing I could do about it, if they really wanted to disappear me, or even if they didn’t, but just made a mistake.
The post’s first paragraph sounds like the doctrine of Original Sin.
This is what Theocracy looks like …