dfh”s. the lot of them!!!

the troops don’t support this president’s abuse of our armed forces, he has actually stolen our assets with the awesome might of the united states military, and stolen the treasure of the middle east

the price?

our armed forces have been turned to shreds, our lives have been lost

Will the NIE be required reading in a second Clintons’ White House? No more trips to Bosnia, that’s the only guaranteed non-event if the Clintons get back in.

Webb asks about permanent bases and what was the threshold for an agreement that would require Congressional approval. Crocker starts his uhing routine.

Meanwhile, we build monster bases … just don’t call them “permanent”

So if there is no security commitment in the SOFA, what is the point of having our troops in Iraq? Can’t we not commit to Iraqi security much better and more safely from here?

Boxturtle up?

I repeat my need for CSPAN to provide me with spew alerts.

EPU’d from downstairs:

Oh great, the ass wipe (Cornyn) who wanted folks to sign his petition in support of petraeus. Oh look, he blew him a kiss

How much of another country’s geography does the US claim in military bases?

Bear in mind that most wingnut bloggers, especially the more infamous ones, are in fact chickenhawks.

Boxturtle up?

Not me, dammit! I’m a NICE boxturtle! just ask my cats!

Boxturtle (GOP has tried to steal everything else, why not my nickname…)

Do you characterize the last year as progress? Both militarily and politically.

They both answer yes.

The “consequences of failure.” Bringing them home is failure?

Wobblybits, can you characterized the progress/ the situation over in Iraq for the rest of us?

Wobblybits: Yes, I can. It’s fucked up.

you think we would have learned from the soviets. this shit bankrupted their country and we are well on our way here.

Sorry, dude.

I know you’re nice.

If P & C don’t see themsleves as successful in Iraq they may get demoted. Interesting how they are allowed to write their own performance report. They got a ten all around.

I just made some fresh pomegranate juice. I may have to add some sake to make it through the rest of this bullshit

9/11…was THE SOVIETS FAULT
wwwaaaaah

Fear fear fear.. I wish a Dem would ask Petreaus if he has ever found evidence of any kind of threat to American soil from anyone in Iraq.

I’m holding out my glass – I’ll have vodka with mine,please

ask the Clintons?

Now who would ask that question?

I read BT’s excellent post and then I look at the FDL newsbox and I see this:

“G.O.P. Struggles to Find Candidates for Congress”

I think to myself, “All of this MUST be good for Republicans.”

keyboard issue – themselves : my “e” sticks and hides itself behind the “l”. The other problem is I think I am a five hundred word a minute typist.

should I just leave the bottle with you? *g*

Evan Bayh is trying to be as bland as possible but Petraeus may be just too weasely even for him.

lol
WELL said! me too.

P. we fight for the right for others to have different opinions although he thinks there is only one way forward in Iraq.

Mr out the tv on mute. He can’t take it anymore (at least not until he can start drinking)

Quote the media will pick up alert!

Betrayus: “The champagne bottles have been pushed to the back of the refrigerator.”

Yep. Gonna need it through this afternoon “spit and shine” session.

Bayh looks frightenly like my dad. Must be the hair

I can’t even have the TV on. I don’t drink, but I still get enraged by Thuglicans and Mr. Gnome has a nice new flat screen TV that I should not throw things at. I will follow your commentary instead. ;-)

Crocker: We need to commit 5 times as many resources to Iraq as to Afghanistan so that it will not turn into Afghanistan.

Yeah, I didn’t understand that one either.

We’re on the left coast and can’t really justify alcohol before noon pst. By that tims, the feijoada (black beans stewed with meat) and rice will be finished and he can drink to dull the stupidity

Once correction, Bayh – not the principle threat? It was NEVER a threat until we bumbled in there.

Oh yeah, now Iraq is way important to OBL.

Bahy – OBL doesn’t scare me, and I don’t take my marching orders from him!

Betrayus: “The champagne bottles have been pushed to the back of the refrigerator.”

And the cupboard is stocked with Jack Daniels.

This afternoon is going to call for blueberry margaritas (made fresh blueberry juice) hell I’ll make a pitcher

“champagne wishes and caviar dreams”

Betrayus: “The champagne bottles have been pushed to the back of the refrigerator.”

Just looked in my refrigerator and there was no champagne bottle. There was something green and slimey. For a moment there I thought I had Petraeus in my refrigerator. Scary.

Bayh is asking good questions!

When we say we will stay forever – we motivate the Iraqis to do absolutely nothing.

Yes!

Hmm I missed Graham but I’m sure I can sum up his appearance with:

You guys are fabulous.gooo team

Is McCain still there or did he sneak out for a nap?

Who are these “leading experts” I keep hearing about? They never have names just “they”. I need a specific name with a job description so I know that person’s background that qualifies him/her and what is expected of them.

P. We can never say when we will leave.

Evan Bayh has finally said something I had hoped someone should say. “We should not take our marching orders from Osama bin Ladin. We should not react to what he says, sometimes predictably in a way that he would have us react.”

Oh, Brer Fox, please don’t throw me in the briar patch!

“Surge” + “pause” = escalation.

Bayh seems to be positioning himself for VP. Most aggressive I’ve seen so far.

LOL It’s his uniform. The military needs to get new tailors. P looks like a Middle School band leader.

Bring Them Home!

Join the protest!!!!!!

The only thing they have is “booga booga! be afraid!” about what might happen if we leave, and lies about how it’s not happening now.

i can’t tell what they’re singing. i wish it were a Revolutionary War song.

someone’s got to get them new protest songs… sounds like a hymn

Gaveled. NPR now having an insipid analysis.

much needed break

Betrayus: “I’m a four-star general. I’ve got strategic thoughts.”

Wheeeeee!

Good summary, Bayh.

We’ll know when we get there and we won’t know when that is ’til we get there!

Great way to end.

Betrayus: “The champagne bottles have been pushed to the back of the refrigerator.”

I’m sure he’s eady to share it with the 4,016 families of our war dead in Iraq, eh…?

at least, with the presence of the protesters, we have some bit sanity during the hearing.

shit only a 30 minute break and it will be aired on CSPAN 3

OK, at 2:30 is the next hearing and it’ll be on CSPAN 3, tune in early

senate foreign relations committee in 30 min.

I heard somewhere, but don’t know how to fact check it, that there are more personnel in military bands than in all of the State Dept.

yes, were it not for them, we would not be represented in these things ATOLL! what a bunch of betrayal and and a crock of caca. who will END THIS THING?

CSpan 3 has a hearing on refugees in the region .. Syrian ambassador speaking now.

Arrrgh! Poor Afghans. Poor Iraqis. Twenty-first century warlord-ism with the bumbling English, I mean Americans trying to play Henry VI.

“I’m a four-star general. I’ve got strategic thoughts.”

He didn’t really say that, did he?

selise, seen any news on dept of homeland security meetings lately?

He did indeed. One of the high points of the hearing.

My favorite protest was a group of women in downtown San Francisco standing on a corner wailing soulfully when we invaded Iraq. People stopped. It was haunting. The sound reminded me of Martha Graham’s Lamentations. The sorrow is beyond human words.

Yes, actually, he did. That is not a paraphrase.

I need a bullshit button today

OH ICK again. Condi on CSpan2. why can’t we ever get on camera someone authentic, ethical and effective? GAWD I’ll be glad when this bunch is gone!

Even more than those with desk jobs in the Pentagon?

But even if that continues, the wingnuts will desperately cling to their fantasy that all troops are loyal Republican dittoheads, that they really love Bush and McCain, that they would never vote Democrat because Democrats hate them and hate America, that the liberal media must be lying, exit polls are unreliable, etc., etc., etc. They just can’t help themselves.

It’s not just the wingnuts. Rather, in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, almost everyone is the mainstream media thinks that everyone in America wants the troops to stay in Iraq until they achieve VICTORY. Glenn Greenwald has been outing this lunacy for some time now.

Siun, while there’s a break, I wanted to tell you thanks for the incredible wealth of knowledge and compassion you bring to these hearings. You are a treasure.

BTW, while we’ve got a few minutes-there’s a lot of relatively-new people here-why not a quick thumbnail about the Guides?

… that would be the pnac group …

I urge everyone to watch that conference from Villanova when you have the chance.

Villanova University Law School hosts an Iraqi refugee conference. Panelists include NGO providers discussing the refugee crisis today and providing updates from the field, also foreign ambassadors discuss the world’s response.
Washington, DC : 3 hr. 28 min.

link to watch

we’ll pop them open Nov 1, to be sure…

I don’t know about you guys but listening to these guys lie for 4 hours makes my brain feel like it is turning to jello.

OTOH things will blow up there if we leave so we must stay there forever.
On the other, there is so much progress and success that we will need to stay there forever.

So what is the difference? We stay or we stay, according to Petraeus and Crocker.

that’s a cool little item there. how about if we all buy one and mail it to the White House.
hmmm.

Give Nuclear technology to dysfunctional governments … what could possibly go wrong ?!!

… that would be the pnac group …

Yep! They need to come out in the sunshine, take off those black hoods and show themselves.

Democrats in the Senate are clearly carrying Republiwater today.. Such poor questions and virtually no corrective language.

The big lie remains a pox on both parties.

DHS senate committee. *Sigh* that picture on the front page speaks volumes.

Chris Mathews going after the Iraqi stay for ever agreement ….

seen any news on dept of homeland security meetings lately?

do you mean congressional committee hearings? if so, i only saw 2 business mtgs this week.

((( ES )))

Next time, I’m reading your summation instead of wasting 4 hours of my life …

Oh Cornyn, Chambliss and all are just leading Petraeus to say there are potential “threats” in Iraq, so we have to stay for the hypothetical, or maybe just hard cold cash for our Blackwater, Halliiburton friends.

We stay or we stay, according to Petraeus and Crocker.

on the other hand, we could stay and make the iraqis pay for it.

Democrats in the Senate are clearly carrying Republiwater today.. Such poor questions and virtually no corrective language.

The big lie remains a pox on both parties.

excellent and sad summary.

I guess I was wondering how Holy Joe was handling the multitude of problems plaguing DHS. I looked at the committee hearings, looked at the picture, and somehow choked.

The Repugs are disgusting. Screaming how war is done for me. How dare they be so presumptive. They just told me they have wars for my liberty. I’ll take care of my own liberty, thank you. I want no one to die for me so I can have a sandwich at the deli while they “sacrifice” themselves. That’s repulsive.

any chance come november when we pick up more dem seates in the senate that they willl strip this ass wipe of his senority and the chairmanship?

Kevin Drum with two useful points: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c…..013485.php

And of course, even Iraqis who feel they “need” US to stay in power, might why they want to be stuck with the gouging prices of our privatized military.

i think liarman fits right in with one of the most fucked up departments of gov

Of course, a lot of rethugs are retiring, non?

Something like 27 iirc.

Idiot goopers speaking to empty congress to get comments into the congressional record- many reading comments from people long dead. Stupid fuckin congress.

The Dems can turf him now without losing control of that chair …

Okay here’s one. The only question I’ll ask on this thread about both Democratic candidates. *Why* on earth do they both say they will keep the Dept of Homeland Security, only reform it?!?

It’s a CLASH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ag8J2NMYmc

on the other hand, we could stay and make the iraqis pay for it.

and blame them too. The best of all possible worlds.

Dept of Homeland Security was originally a dem idea that Goopers ended up supporting.

exactly. and if that gets boring, every once in a while, blame iran for a change of pace.

Okay here’s one. The only question I’ll ask on this thread about both Democratic candidates. *Why* on earth do they both say they will keep the Dept of Homeland Security, only reform it?!?

The best reform would be to abolish it.

Hey that’s Holy Joe’s Baby you’re insulting, DHS.

because they like the idea of a dhs?

Thank you. I was really fishing for that response. Wasn’t sure I’d get it.

BTW… (a little OT)

*Unlimited, warrantless wiretaps by the FBI since 1994.
*Department of Homeland Security’s National Applications Office conducting illegal, domestic sattelite surveilance.
*And, DOJ just doesn’t seem to have the resources to provide copies of a couple of memos that they would be more than happy to provide to Congress if they just could.

Notice the similarities???

These revelations about gross unconstitutional actions by our government were all released the same day that Our Glorious HERO, The Savior of Iraq, General Davey P puts on his dog & pony show before the Senate. Heroic Davey makes such good television that no one will bother to report or seem to care that our very system of government, the Constitution of the United States is under attack and no one cares…

The best reform would be to abolish it.

The Alexandrian solution to the Gordian knot problem.

i’m all for that but they seem to lack the intestinal fortitude to do it now.

had it been left to me, he would have been kicking rocks long ago

I’m off to lunch. I’ll catch everyone later. I need something to fortify myself after the P & C act. That was one bad performance.

I was looking for an article I recently read about Iraqis sending their oil revenue out of the country instead of spending it on infrastructure (electricity, clean water etc). Didn’t find it but it looks like the Saudis may have seized control of a major pipeline.

Saudi seize control of the Iraqi export pipeline Saudi seize control of the Iraqi export pipeline

Ministry of Oil uncovered that the Saudi side has seized control of the export pipeline of Iraqi crude oil which passes through its territory to the Red Sea. The ministry said that even if Kurdistan region signed contracts with international companies to invest in oil, it would not be able to export because neighboring countries are not prepared for the passage of these quantities through their territory and neighboring countries agreed on this matter without exerting pressure upon them by the ministry.

snip

*Unlimited, warrantless wiretaps by the FBI since 1994.

Wow…link for this?

never did like the idea of the dept. would be delighted to see it fade into a bad memory

Have you checked out ACLU’s site on the alleged abuses that have been committed lately by DHS?

Like Single Payer Health Care, Obama or Hillary have to initiate a transition phase.

A proposal to abolish DHS could be played by the dark side to show the Dems would leave America vulnerable to terror attacks …

Not just supporting, stealing and turning into a purely political weapon by writing union-busting into its founding legislation, and then trying to paint the Dems as unpatriotic for opposing it. Not that anyone here needs to be reminded that Republicans always place politics ahead of national security.

guess i should get the bar ready, it’s underway in 7 minutes

April to be national month of the military child if dem from Guam has her way….

What bullshit our congress is!

A foreign military adventure is said to have been “defeated,” when the aggressor lacks the troops, funding, and/or national will to continue.

Are we there yet? Sounds to me like we are.

no. linky?

Urgh. ACLU on DHS.

B- bu- but … we’re winning and the Chinese are more than happy to loan us a few Trillion more …

I wonder what will happen if we get a Democratic President mainly due to the unpopularity of the Iraq war and desire to end it and our military find they are outranked by civilians. What kind of serious personality conflicts will arise if they are ordered to draw down in Iraq. The right-wing noise machine, we know will go into hyperdrive.

Ok, The Dodd is on foreign relations – I hope he goes after the General. In his Dodd way.

Russ on this one, too. We could see some good things here. I can always hope, right?

Selise: linky:

Secretary Chertoff has been at the helm of DHS when severe breaches of individual rights have occurred around the department’s immigration practices,” added Joanne Lin, ACLU legislative counsel. People have died while being detained by DHS. Americans’ homes have been invaded by armed ICE agents and citizens, including young children, taken into custody during ICE raids. There have been cases of citizens who were detained or deported by DHS. Secretary Chertoff needs to explain ICE’s conduct to the Senate and the American people.”

Meanwhile, news from Baghdad:

Military, militia clash in Baghdad

By SINAN SALAHEDDIN

Baghdad, April 8: Iraqi government troops and Shia militia fighters clashed anew on Tuesday, as anti-American cleric Moqtada al-Sadr called off a mass rally in the capital, citing harassment by security forces.

Cleric Al Sadr had scheduled the “million-strong” protest to mark the fifth anniversary of the capture of Baghdad by US troops. But it has been seen by many observers as a show of force in his confrontation with the government over calls to disband his Mahdi army militia.

The decision to cancel it came after Iraqi security forces blocked cleric Al Sadr’s followers from reaching the capital from the southern Shia heartland where the cleric enjoys wide support, aides in his office in the holy city of Najaf said. They spoke on condition of anonymity pending an official announcement. Cleric Al Sadr faces a government ultimatum to either disband his Mahdi army or give up politics.

The latest round of fighting in Baghdad comes as General David Petraeus, the commander of US forces in Iraq, prepared to testify later on Tuesday on the war…

-more-

There will be very little drawdown under a D prez, cause he’ll be convinced that the bloodbath that would follow would ruin his reelection chances.

FEMA is part of DHS and managed to turn the disaster of Katrina into a catastrophe. Chertoff wants to build hundreds of miles of a border fence with Mexico which has a 2100 mile border with us. What’s wrong with that picture? It spends money on security cameras for places in Alaska that nobody has heard of and short changes potential targets like oh say New York City. The DHS also oversees the Coast Guard that is busily replacing its fleet with ships that don’t float. It undertakes all kinds of intelligence programs without the required approvals and the only defense they have is that most of them don’t work anyway. It is in short an awful rathole in which to pour money.

I’m skipping the hearings, and am just taking a break from writing an article on the Hundred Years War. At least that one finally ended.

I can’t imagine Petraeus is particularly happy to be up there today. He knows he has just screwed whatever chances he ever had of becoming the Joint Chief of Staff, unless of course, the shrub sneaks him in as a recess appointment between Christmas and New Year.

sure but may I suggest donning your shitsucker suit for protection?

There is some food for thought. Saudis seize with whose blessing?

It is in short an awful rathole in which to pour money.

not awful for the rats.

The protection racket being run by Iraqi’s, bribing Petraeus for a successful surge, is a trip wire for a Democratic President. If those bribes end, the bullets and mortars will fly.

Have you noticed that the press have now turned to calling Sadr ‘anti-American’, as if that distinguished him from all the other Iraqi’s?

I’m skipping the hearings, and am just taking a break from writing an article on the Hundred Years War. At least that one finally ended.

Sounds like McCain’s kind of war. 100 years long and ends with a strengthened enemy.

good grief

The DHS also oversees the Coast Guard that is busily replacing its fleet with ships that don’t float. It undertakes all kinds of intelligence programs without the required approvals and the only defense they have is that most of them don’t work anyway. It is in short an awful rathole in which to pour money.

Sometimes it’s more cost effective to tear down a building, then to try and rebuild a rat hole. I just think the candidates should know that. That’s all.

“… he’ll …” ? Has HRC conceded ? *g*

There are many intelligent on both sides who know how to reach peace agreements across the ME … A Dem President with a majority Congress will accomplish this sooner rather than later …

Sort of like Before… and NAFTA.

Why call Sadr anti- american . Isn’t he really just a rabid nationalist and by definition would not like ANY country occupying Iraq?

When does round two begin?

Or as if he is some warlord vassal who’s supposed to pay tribute to the US.

yep … he’s gone from “radical cleric” to “anti-american” .. a label I suspect he would have no trouble with since underlying all his efforts is a commitment to remove the occupiers from Iraq.

Of course, the claims that he is backed by Iran are utter bs – and in fact, in his interview with Al Jazeera during the Basra fighting, he specifically told the Iranians to butt out.

Siun @131 – I’m certain the good general just told me that things were going swimmingly in Iraq, and Maliki is stronger, and Sadr isn’t!

Didn’t he just tell me that?

Whoever the next POTUS is, we can prolly agree they won’t get much sleep for the first term …

Al Sadr may represent the majority of all Iraqis.

If he’s the enemy- well then there’s a conclusion to be drawn.

Was gone for a while, just read the preceeding thread, and this one.

All these ratfuckers are making money of this war. Huge money. They don,t give a flying fuck that 80%of americans want out. They want more of your money, now, and for as long a time as they can screw their base.

Bunch of sickening senators. War criminals, most of them.

The table is used to count your money…

Foreign Affairs hearing up

Yes!

The Sadrists stayed in Iraq during the war with Iran and opposed Saddam but would not side with Iran … they oppose all outside interference.

Assuming things are routine [edited by mod], Hillary hasn’t had a chance since Super Tuesday.

[Mod Note; In the comments at FDL, please do not suggest violence or harm on others. Thank you.]

Here comes The Man Called Petraeus

CSPAN 3

War, not Wat, sorry. I’m livid.

The general has an interesting viewpoint for a military man … given that Sadr’s forces defeated Maliki (and Maliki had to bring the Iranians in to negotiate a truce just so he could escape Basra with his life)

I loved the line that Iran has wrested control of the ‘insurgents’ from Sadr … which tried to show once again that it’s not Iraqis that are fighting against U.S troops but outside forces/terrorists

Of course, the claims that he is backed by Iran are utter bs – and in fact, in his interview with Al Jazeera during the Basra fighting, he specifically told the Iranians to butt out.

Now if I were to believe Sen. Pryor. . . Pryor said he read it: Sadr wants to be Ayatollah and he’s being tucked in by the Iranians at night. But curiously enough, he didn’t say where he read it.

MSNBC has it live as well.

Levin gave a fairly tight and well written resume of conditions in Iraq. Biden is indulging his well known penchant for bloviating. If he has a point I hope he gets to it.

Go Biden !

it’s on now (started at 2:30 est) on Cspan 3 but MSNBC carrying it well

Morning Ya’ll! It’s 8:30 here in the Isles, and, I caught Hill’s questioning onwards! I’m seriously disgusted with the Iranian angle being harped upon! Next stop, Teheran!

Our media keeps claiming Sadr is in Iran … while he may at times study in Qom, most reliable folks place him in Najaf … with one odd report claiming he’s been in Lebanon a lot.

((( CT )))

You missed Akaka …

Morning Ya’ll! It’s 8:45 here in the Isles, and, I caught Hill’s questioning onwards! I’m seriously disgusted with the Iranian angle being harped upon! Next stop, Teheran!

It’s amazing that they know precisely where Al Sadr is in a hostile country but they can’t find Bin Laden in a friendly country …

and it’s one – two – three
what are we fighting for?
don’t ask me, I don’t give damn,
next stop will be Iran.

Hugh, Biden is bloviating, but he’s not painting a rosy picture.

It seems to me he’s trying to point out the surge isn’t a success.

He’s also questioning staying the course.

bom dia, ctuttle

get on your hip waders and the bar is open to dull the pain (if needed)

Where can I find a list of the Senators on this committee ?

just sent this to my good friend from Arkansas – and am writing a LTE to Little Rock newspapers asking them why their Senator can not keep his Iranian Agents straight – clown

http://foreign.senate.gov/about.html

I got it here.

http://www.senate.gov/~foreign/about.html

Hugh, Biden is bloviating, but he’s not painting a rosy picture.

It seems to me he’s trying to point out the surge isn’t a success.

He’s also questioning staying the course.

Yes, he did eventually get around to making a case. It just took him a while.

Biden on CSPAN right now with the good General.

May I say, I’m lovin me some Biden right now. It is long past time we started changing the framing of this debate!

Thank you both !

Maybe it’s good I just came in for the tail end of his speech. But it is so rare to hear someone talking about the cost of staying in Iraq and the dubious nature of some of the claims about the horrific consequences of withdrawl.

Joe has an extra pair of Lungs … *g*

Hah “… 6 years later, we’ve gone from drowning to treading water …” tell it, Biden !

I’m prepared! I’ve made my laptop spew-proof.

Arkansas Times LTE might see print, fwiw.

Average IQ of morning senators was about 80, and that included a few above 100, so you know how low the others had to be. Perhaps we’ll get a more intelligent questioning this afternoon.

I was looking for an article I recently read about Iraqis sending their oil revenue out of the country instead of spending it on infrastructure (electricity, clean water etc).

This, maybe?

Woo Hoo … Dodd, Feingold, Obama, Casey, Webb, Cardin … with possible pinch hitting by Chuck Hagel … WB, I’ll have some of that Blueberry Margarita, thank you very much …

eCHAN, there appear to be fewer the-world-is-flat repubs on this committee. Of course, there is always Coleman and DeMint…..

I have hope for Feingold and Dodd. I’d like to see Obama go on the attack, but don’t expect it.

((( ET )))

How goes it ?

Iraq: the most expensive baby-sitting operation in world history.

well it’s almost noon here and lunch is ready (gotta go feed the worker bees) and mr has made his first drink (pomegranate juice, cahaca, lots of ice, lil honey and the blender)

thanks, ES :D

oh look a Pep Rally !

I’ve made a few pitchers, feel free to take one *g*

Lugar makes my point from an earlier thread: Iraq is a failed state & has little chance of unbecoming one.

Sounds good but what is cahaca?

Somebody explain to me, again, why there should be apologies for calling McCain a warmonger?

The dude promotes war. He wants war. That makes him a warmonger.

Iraq is a failed state & has little chance of unbecoming one.

An unbecoming prospect.

Yep. I don’t expect much from Obama either. Has to keep it low key, as his eye is on the general election. But if he surprises, I’ll be impressed.

brasilian rum

“Return on success,” said the Commander-in-chief.

“I’ve succeeded,” said his field commander. “But returning would jeopardize that success.”

IMHO, success that requires the same on-going expenditure of effort and resources to sustain, should not be called “success.” In fact, it should not even be called “incremental progress,” because nothing has changed.

Close but the article I read named Iraqis who were keeping the money in European banks. What’s that fellows name, the one who is a notorious native Iraqi oil thief and visits Bush in the White House? I think it was that that guy.

Should I stay or should I go?
Should I stay or should I go now?
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there will be trouble
An’ if I stay it will be double
So come on and let me know!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Gn0e7kvTA

thanks – love rum but haven’t had that.

Wow

Biden and Lugar are givin the boys holy hell.

Lugar especially on target…what a great opening!!!

Chalabi?

I think Luger is putting Gen. P to sleep – he didn’t look awake in that last shot.

Amazing things I’m hearing – I didn’t realize we spent more in Iraq in 3 weeks than we’ve spent in 6 years in Afghanistan.

AKA … Nectar of the Gods … *g*

OT–Glenn just published his response from Lee Hamilton. Hamilton says the 9/11 Commission never heard anything about the phone call Mukasey referred to when he cried in San Francisco.

Will P&C prepared statements be the same as this morning? If so, I;ll go read my book for awhile.

Well then, I made the right choice taking the kids out instead. I did find a radio station covering the hearings, but as you said, I’m not supposed to abuse the kids instead.

We went out for pancakes, then to Union station to check out some Chihuly. Better than watching the lowbrows praise Petraeus!

Lugar is more like Hagel than like Graham Crackers …

Eureka … you mean Al Hakim, head of the SIIC and Badr Brigade and frequently known in Iraq as heading the biggest family of oil smugglers?

The real trick here with Lugar as with Warner earlier today is that they know this is all bogus but will they vote that way.

and like Warner, they can’t touch him – courtly ol cuss

i don’t think lugar is stupid.

Betty Crocker reads the same speech he made early in the day—the rubber stamp ambassador.

… and these talking points will get more air time than anything anyone else says …

one of the axis of weasels is on msnbc now. Lieberliar [I-self-serving] being asked by Norah O’Donnell about contrast between McCain and Clinton on “responsibility” in Iraq.

Cachaca is distilled from fermented cane juice, so cane brandy. Rum is distilled from fermented molasses.

if you can get a good brand, it is fantastic stuff

Lieberliar: I agree with John McCain.

Crooker: More bullshit than WWE wrestling…

i don’t think lugar is stupid.

As to that, I won’t comment. My point is that Senators like Warner and Lugar talk tough from time to time but then vote the Administration’s way so I am not giving them a free pass for merely being disgruntled.

Lieberliar: history will condemn the policy in Iraq between 2002 and 2007 when we began the surge.

can make you do devilish things *g*

My CSPAN3 streaming connection wasn’t very good. I’ve switched to CNN’s live stream and it seems better, if that can be used to describe anything carrying Crocker’s crap.

we call it brasilian version of rum (trust the brasilian)

Jane’s upstairs!

agree. but i think lugar knows exactly what he’s doing… that is all i meant. he doesn’t get a pass from me for not knowing better.

btw rum is made from sugarcane as well. rum is the product of sugarcane by products which can be sugarcane juice OR molasses.

cachaca definitely is not brandy like

cut away to show Bush presenting postumous medal to Navy Seal. Can we say politicize the death of Petty Officer Monseur?

Forgive my cynicism, but would make an interesting study to cross-ref these medal awards presentations over time with the other news of same day. Timing no accident.

We support our troops–we want to bring them home alive and whole.

Yep, the CNN live streaming switched threads on us to try to force us to watch Shrub. I found where they put the hearing and went there.

The only success Petraeus can point to is a reduction in the combat death rate for U.S. troops, and he claims that success will be jeopardized if we withdraw. Duh?

Ok, I missed the opening statements this morning. Is this what Crock ‘o said this morning?

Will General P be reruns too?

i needed a spew alert for that

Yes

i’m listening via c-span radio (audio only) on itunes. it’s been pretty good.

Hugh, General P, with his “the surge is a success” so we can’t leave, does he drone on for 30 minutes?

I’m trying to time having to walk away from the desk here, at work.

Think I’m going to go for a walk. I wish that someone would ask Crocker about the Status of Forces Agreement that is just like what we have with 80 other countries.

How many countries do we have 140,000 troops stationed in?

In how many of these countries have we sustained 4,000 combat deaths and 20,000 wounded in the last 5 years?

In how many of these countries do we continue major combat operations?

Finally, what is the difference between permanent bases and staying indefinitely?

don’t think you are going to miss anyone asking those questions.

Shorter Betrayus … we’re saving Iraqis from their AQ conquerors …

Bin Laden & Al Zawahiri have tried to capitalize on the situation in Iraq … this is a direct threat to Cheney’s attempts to capitalize on the Iraq quagmire and AQ must not be allowed to succeed …

When Petraeus testified in September, we were able to download his charts. I can’t find the charts for his charade today. Has anyone come across a link? We need to put someone on the task of digging through the lies.

How can withdrawing jeopardize the decreased U.S. death rate, which the surge’s only success?

They probably didn’t provide it on purpose, to avoid that very thing.

Did he just say it cost less to pay these guys not to fight us than it does to replace what they blow up if we don’t pay?

Fund the protection racket, that’s what he’s saying?

This “Sons of Iraq” crap makes me ralph. They are funding (and arming) Sunni tribal leaders. Do they really think that will work out well? When’s the last time we did this? Oh, yeah. Some guy named Osama. That one worked out just fine, didn’t it?

If Crocker and the General burn up an hour and a half with their opening borologue–and then with half of the questioning being wasted by goopers- then they only have an hour or so to filibuster their way through before their dinner with Clusterfuck.

I feel like doing a cut and paste.

The Sons of Iraq are those who can be bought out by the US Occupying Forces … those who oppose this misadventure are flagged as AQ operatives …

Ok, 7 minute rounds, here’s hoping there be something good.

Yeah, Biden, let him know he can’t act unilaterally, on binding us to “agreements.”

Applause for Biden saying Congress has to approve any agreement binding us to stay in Iraq.

My Friends, for those of you whose eyes are tired of the tiny CSpan window, MSNBC’s stream is bigger and brighter … Link

Biden, “In the interest of time, if you don’t want to answer, tell me you don’t want to answer.”

Biden isn’t interested in hearing the filibuster, apparently.

Is al Qaeda a bigger threat in Iraq or Afghanistan?
Biden to Crocker.
Crocker says Afghanistan.
Jeez. Why didn’t Biden follow with the obvious of why do we have so many more troops in Iraq instead of Afghanistan?

Crocker is just so effin incompetent … it’s stunning

Notice how Biden didn’t need notes for his questions? He’s one of the few present who actually understands what is happening.

Biden does to some degree … but he’s a fan of partition which is all wrong from the Iraqi people’s viewpoint

Is he really the best our country can offer for this vital position? Imagine if Juan Cole or Samantha Power had that job.

Agreed. I think Biden is doing a great job.

Dodd up !

Dodd up!

Guess I owe you a Coke! Today maybe it should be a beer instead.

What impact is this stress of repeated combat tours to effectively do what we are asking them to do, win the hearts and minds.

I’d love to see Samantha Power with a strong role … goodness, that woman is brilliant.

I’ll take a Belgian Brew, thank you very much … *g*

I still can’t get over how fucking stupid this charade is.

Petraeus sits there and tells Congress that further troop withdrawals would jeopardize the success of the surge (i.e., a reduction in U.S. casualties), when complete withdrawal would obviously seal the deal.

Why aren’t they laughing at him?

Biden showed some impatience … Feingold and Obama should be more forceful …

Yes, Hagel bringing up the mortar attacks on the Green Zone …

Go Hagel! Now he’s asking where we go from here.(Besides punting to the next president?)

Chuck smacking Crooker … turn words into action, Senators !

Hagel: “Where’s my diplomatic surge, Dude?”

that thud you all heard was crocker shitting in his pants

President Senator Kerry up now.

for what ?

DAMMIT! I sat through the “statements” and then, when Hagel goes after Crock ‘o Shit, I get a phone call and miss it!

because Hagel’s: “Where’s my diplomatic surge, Dude?” (stolen from JimWhite)

That’s what I thought … I’d love for these Senators to go after BushCo through these two emissaries …

this man hems and haws and basically says nothing.

i like this batch of senators (committees) questions much better (the tome is more agressive which is what I wanted…kind of rapid fire not letting them run on and on until time is up)

Yes, and he followed it with “What are you talking about?” It’s easy to put in the rest of “WTF are you talking about?” from the look on Hagel’s face. He’s ex-military, and he doesn’t appreciate the diplomatic guys jerking off while the military is busting their butts to make an opportunity for them.

In response, Crocker has bupkis.

Did I just channel Raven?

LOL

I as well. i would like to see a senator just read them the true facts (hell bust out some charts to counter that bullshit P is showing) and rattle the hell out of them and then ask them, what fucking Iraq are THEY referring to

Ooh, Kerry ate his wheaties!

Thank you, sir, for noting that there were NO “al Queda in Iraq” until we got there.

Spew Norm Coleman…I can’t wait until his ass is replaced. yeah we’re all frustrated. Nope, i’m pissed

Yes he did and I’m glad he cut P off and told him yeah we’ve seen your shit but your not about to waste my time repeating that bull

Side note* Crocker needs join Toastmasters.

Is it possible that by the end of the day tomorrow even the Republicans will have had enough of Crocker to throw him under the bus? He’s just hopeless, both in what he has failed to accomplish and in how he is trying to justify his existence.

P keeps repeating (when under direct questioning) that his repsonsibility is only Iraq but then when ask about future projections and the like (where is my diplomatic surge) alludes to elements outside of Iraq. wtf?

Here we go. Fiengold

Popcorn time. Feingold.

Iran Iran Iran

Patriot Feingold up.

I love this guy.

Get him feingold

Ha not iinsulting you P but we want answer from folks with a wider view

*sigh* I sooooo love Feingold

Redeploy.

Crocker really needs to change his pants now.

Crocker:

Hummahummahumma

Petraeus:

I take my cues from bin laden. He told me he wants to fight in Iraq, so I need to sit here and wait for him.

Is P sweating?

As we deal with them in Iraq, why aren’t we safer? Nice, Mr. Feingold. Hammer that point.

OBL’s goal is to destroy us by bankrupting us.

I love this guy.

that is truly what he is saying. What a putz

Sure looks like it. The light’s playing funny tricks on Crocker, too. It looks like he has a fluorsecent streak down his nose.

Crocker … Iraqi leaders love us

(and they would probably not survive if we did not keep them in the Green Zone)

Ambassador isn’t part of the problem the disagreement between the country leaders of our presence there?

crocker (plop)

Feingold:

Petraeus, why are you arming, training and equipping Iranian influences inside Iraq? Job security?

Guess Crocker has missed the opposition from the majority of Parliament and from the Sunni AMS in addition to Sadr … Feingold nailed that with his mention about the approval of occupation extension was illegal under Iraqi constitution

ahh I can go make some more margaritas now that Corker is rimming

Can we come home now?

nice parting smack with facts

How many more friedman units til we can leave?

We can’t know that until the pause is over. ;-)

How many more friedman units til we can leave?

Would those be vertical or horizontal Friedman units?

Petraeus:

“I serve at the pleasure of bin laden.”

Wtf? does Crocker actually do? no, seriously.

All day long. the P/C show has been setting up Iran as the bad guy responsible for the ongoing Iraq debacle …

He sits in the green zone and yells “go team” – probably never even met an Iraqi.

Fellate Condi Bush.

my critter is up now

How many insurgents…give me a number

All day long. the P/C show has been setting up Iran as the bad guy responsible for the ongoing Iraq debacle …

Now, now, don’t spoil the plot for us. And I do mean plot.

Ooh, Boxer up.

hehehehe, I can see that

What’s that S/M apparatus around Boxer’s neck ?

Arrrggghhh brain bleach….

My son could sign up for the military and within nine months could be all trained up with his happy ass toting a gun in downtown Baghdad. How long does it take to train Iraqi’s? Six years?

thank goddess it’s back on cspan1

no more margaritas for you….you may have earned a time out as well *g*

Oooh, Boxer says let them pay their OWN protection money!

P: They’re not militias, they’re thugs.

I like my critter (well this one, the other one can go ….. you get the idea)

Someone asked on a radio call-in show this afternoon why we don’t get rid of the US contractors we have in Iraq and hire Iraqis instead. A very interesting concept.

They’re showering Iranian prez with flowers, and we have to sneak in the middle of the night. Explain that.

And answer the question – after all we have done, all the sacrifices, after all of this, Iran is stronger and more influential, explain it.

You know what? At the start of testimony, they should make him define stuff like:

militias
insurgents
strategy
success

because I thought I knew what those words meant and obviously in P’s world, I haven’t a clue

No one could have foreseen Iran benefiting from our invasion of Iraq.

The DevilCahaca made me do it !

what? investing in the people of the country thereby making them self sufficient? There is no place in bush’s war for logic and common sense

To be fair, Bush cannot go very many places here in America without sneaking around.

… or Syria, Libya, North Korea or any of our enemies …

*g* it’s okay mr is on time out for talking about crocker’s lack of lips 9I think he referred to it as a face slit)

But he does get kisses on the cheek.

The Awakening ? WTF is Voinovich talking about ?

LOL !!!

Plus, he gets to hold hands with Saudis while they stroll through the grounds in Crawford and at Camp David.

Boxer gives up, they refuse to answer her question – and then, we find out that they apparently kissed Cheney “somewhere.”

Hey, wobbly, you gonna post the recipe for the blueberry margs?

Wobbly, methinks Voinvoich stole a couple Pitchers of your Brew …

Help. I’m agreeing with a Republican and I can’t throw up!

(This guy is making some sense.)

Jim, Voinvoich isn’t batshit insane. He’s one of the few good ones, in my opinion.

i think he must have combined the various brews.

Yes, this committee overall is so much better than this morning’s. Hagel and Voinovich both are making solid points and not letting P&C bullshit them.

1/2 cup fresh or frozen bluberries ( I use fresh juice)
1 oz tequila
1/2 oz blue curacao
1/2 oz cointreau
1/2 oz chambord
2 oz sweet and sour mix

These measurements are just guidelines…play with ratios until you reach the nirvana that is the parfect margarita

MUP up! Ride, pony, ride!

Obama’s up now!

the curacao just makes it pretty and blue but you can go with just the cointreau (both are orange liqueurs)

Aargh, what a morning! My internet gave out and after troubleshooting with the cable co., my cable connecting to my modem was shot…!

Who is the spooky ass looking senator over Obama’s shoulder?

Nelson, from Florida. He gave Obama his spot, so Obama could go first.

Nelson – Florida ?

was wondering what happened to you. That sucks.

From what I saw of it this morn, from Hill onwards, all I heard was Iran, Iran, Iran… WTF?

that was awfully nice of him to do that but he is still spooky looking

Obama trying to get them to define what would be success.

Can’t completely get rid of AQI.

Can’t completely neutralize Iran.

So what is success?

Obama is building a case here … heading in right direction I think.

Yeah, at least Obama is trying to get them to admit we will never rid Iraq of any influence from Iran.

leinie – exactly

Yep, led right back to Boxer’s question …

Original decision a massive blunder, problems faced now result of that blunder.

Obama is sounding very Presidential.

Nicely done Obama … if Malliki can tolerate Ahmedinajad, we should be talking to him as well …

Yes, withdrawal…! However, the sooner the better…!

Timetable for withdrawal … as increased pressure

diplomatic surge – talk with neighbors inc Iran – no solution without them

bipartisan consensus that we have limited resources – and AQ in Afghanistan feels breathing space, define goals tightly and modestly

if we could have status quo in Iraq without US troops right now … current status quo … could we consider that success?

Son of a gun the sound whent out and i didn’t hear much of obama’s questions

You know, he was much stronger than I thought he would be. Very presidential.

Trying to get to an endpoint – can you define success?

Must say I’m impressed.

Brilliantly done … painted Crocker and by extension BushCo, into a corner …

Trying to get to an endpoint, if the definition of success is so high … no Iranian influence, etc portends us staying 20-30 years … if our definition is messy but no huge outbreaks of violence, not threat to neighbors, that is achievable.

Go to MSNBC… They’re covering it live!

Very well done … very well done.

Siun, I thought that was very well done.

I also like that Biden indulged him, and called Crocker on not answering the question.

Yup, and you can bet the house his questions will get absolutely no press coverage.

Yep, Crocker pooped his pants while Betrayus looked to the Ambassador for help …

Outbreaks of violence will only end well after we are gone.

Gotta run folks, thanks for sharing the pain of watching this.

Better than Hill’s feeble questions this morn, IMHO!

Obama sounded reasonable, not all screechy and chest thumpy. Impressive, sounded sort of like a decider. A real one.

whew I was taping it over on msnbc and can go back and look at it (thanks CTuttle)

but you all think he did a good job of questionong? I look forward to watching it

Even some of the Repubs seemed impressed …

“PFC Jeremy Slate said he supported Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., because of his stated intention to pull out of Iraq right away.”

The hearings: So far, there is nothing new happening to give hope — merely paraphrases of the same old mincing of words. Tick-tock.

Having just watched Barack Obama: it seems to me he posited a hypothetical that was easily stepped around.

After Bush is gone: I don’t believe that Obama has a plan to bring the troops home posthaste

“Obama Adviser Calls for Troops To Stay in Iraq Through 2010″
http://www.nysun.com/politics/…..rough-2010

Small sampling of other evidence:
“I’m not privy to Senate intelligence reports. What would I have done? I don’t know.” — New York Times, July 26, 2004

“There’s not much of a difference between my position (on Iraq) and George Bush’s position.” — Chicago Tribune, July 27, 2004

He also admitted that he wasn’t sure if he would have voted for war, if he were in the Senate.

questioned about Iraq War support in 2004 — “(comments/statements made) … when we (Democrats) had a nominee, both for President (Howard Dean) and Vice-President, who had voted for the war. It was probably the wrong time … to be making a strong case against my party’s nominee.” — Meet the Press, November 11, 2007

Mods, we’re getting pretty close to 400 comments, should we move to another thread ?

…you all think he did a good job of questionong?

I’ll go as far as a better job than most, however, I wouldn’t categorize it as a ‘Good’ job…! I liked Evan Bayh’s questions this morn…

I missed Bayh this a.m. but I thought Obama asking if present day Iraq without a high US Troop presence is a good thing effectively put P/C on checkmate … they were reluctant to answer the question directly …

hmmm I will say this group is much more agressive than this morning’s group

… more cohesive in their line of questioning too, on both sides …

Any reduction in forces should begin with all of our paid militia.

They are not accountable.

They are very expensive.

Our troops cohesion /morale will improve if they are allowed the self respect of running things themselves.

The only job in town is Die Die Kill Kill Inc. Protection racket is a natural outgrowth.

Eureka – I certainly agree and feel the only right answer is all out, immediately.

Since we don’t have a candidate taking that position, I like Obama’s approach of making the point that it will not get better even by P&Cs terms … and that diplomacy with the region is essential (this to me is a big deal) – and that this is purely “cleanup of the massive original blunder” …

I’d like more – oh yes – but it moves us in the right direction.

spot on. we watched that voodoo’s war on PBS lat week and when you saw how are troops were dependent on these contractors for their lives (and the bastards had the audacity to not even show up and the troops had to do for themselves) it just makes my stomach turn

It is tough to say more in 7 minutes without blathering ala Biden …

Wish I was as eloquent as you.

I liked Obama’s lead up, and his point that it’s not going to get better, we can’t achieve perfection here, we need to get others involved and clean up the mess.

It’s not what I want, but it’s better than I expected. Does that make sense?

How can you even pretend to be able to talk about what we are doing in Iraq if you don’t know what we’re doing in Iraq. Anytime that P is hit with figures from other sources that has to do with OUR actions in Iraq, it is always the excuse of ignorance of the figure on question.

Oh yes… ’tis why I stressed all paid militia out first. *g* If any reduction might impress the Iraqi and informed Americans at the same time.. it would be an end to paid militia, imo.

Everyone on that dais know P/C are spinning, the second round should be even better than the first …

yep … get our militia out

The Iraqi press certainly noticed the reupping of the Blackwater contract …

Menendez,just grabbed Crockers tiny balls

These people are nothing but hired killers. It is shameful.

I think I’ll need the sake for a lil raw cocktail

Could someone tell me what’s wrong with Iran? /s

I like my Iranian friends and their choice of food.

Menendez just got it sooo right on Basra … wow!

A the sweet, sweet reek of the ‘Kool-Aide’. When has Barry the Clown ever said we are leaving Iraq. Was that before or after he said we were gonna stay?

Both?

Okay, correct….

Now take a look at someone who says ‘U.S. out of Iraq Right Now!’ No waiting; right now.

And while you are thinking this over check out the results of Barry’s trip to Bosnia…to France….to Spain…to Italy…

Get back to me on that will ya, pal?

-

Do Crocker and Petraeus really have control over Iraqi funds? Isn’t this a congressional issue on the point of our funding and a Iraqi Parliament issue on the other side?

BTW Siun, Al Hakim was the name escaping me earlier, thanks!

I am not sure if you’re referring to troops or mercenaries. In either case, I strongly believe you should retract that statement. Further, no matter how it may be rationalized, we hired them and sent them there — and, keep them there. We all share blame.

Hey pups–

Come on up to the newest post, David Neiwert on the war

I mean Blackwater. I did not hire them and I don’t support them. I think they shame our country by their actions. It’s not okay to kill civilians and rape women. I have the utmost respect for our troops.

Regardless, you do not know what is in the heart of any mercenary anymore than you do with regard to our troops who volunteered their service to our country. The purest of ideals may have led to their current employment.

I am more pissed at Nancy Pelosi for taking impeachment off the table (May 2006). Being able to pressure Bush was the only way to stop any of his heinous affronts to this country and the world. He was determined to start this war and commit all of his other crimes on the day he walked into office, whether or not there was a 9/11. And all we got were more feeble hearings with scant positive results, other than changing the results of polls revealing the countries growing distaste for this administration. Aw heck, what’s another couple thousand coalition and tens of thousands Iraqi deaths that have occurred since her cowardly assertion.

The clock will tick on — Bush will be gone, Only then can we begin to untangle this mess.

lol – did i just hear biden tell p&c that their physical stamina (shown by their “long” day testifying) was greater than their good judgment?

Your hearing is good.