Comments on: Siegelman: All Roads Lead To Rove http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/ Firedoglake weblog Thu, 26 Nov 2009 07:55:20 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: JimTheCynic http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376471 JimTheCynic Mon, 07 Apr 2008 18:46:15 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376471 <p>Can we indict him now?</p> Can we indict him now?

]]> By: earlofhuntingdon http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376394 earlofhuntingdon Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:51:45 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376394 <p>To use your analogy, Nixon would have been “indicted” had the House voted on and approved articles of impeachment; it didn’t, Nixon resigned beforehand. The trial would have been held in the Senate. Punishment would have been limited to removal from office, unless a prosecutor had thereafter pursued other charges. </p> <p>Gerald Ford foreclosed that - I think notoriously so, not least because he did not condition his full pardon on any obligation of cooperation or full disclosure. He just buried Nixon’s probable crimes, and possible widespread complicity in them, under the proverbial rug. </p> <p>Two of Ford’s top aides were Rumsfeld and Cheney They are still fighting to keep Nixon in office, with statutory authority to do what he did and more, and still fighting for their fantasy victory in Vietnam. Will there be an Iraq War Memorial or one for the Constitution?</p> To use your analogy, Nixon would have been “indicted” had the House voted on and approved articles of impeachment; it didn’t, Nixon resigned beforehand. The trial would have been held in the Senate. Punishment would have been limited to removal from office, unless a prosecutor had thereafter pursued other charges.

Gerald Ford foreclosed that – I think notoriously so, not least because he did not condition his full pardon on any obligation of cooperation or full disclosure. He just buried Nixon’s probable crimes, and possible widespread complicity in them, under the proverbial rug.

Two of Ford’s top aides were Rumsfeld and Cheney They are still fighting to keep Nixon in office, with statutory authority to do what he did and more, and still fighting for their fantasy victory in Vietnam. Will there be an Iraq War Memorial or one for the Constitution?

]]> By: Hugh http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376384 Hugh Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:46:50 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376384 <blockquote><p>Can a democratic President w/ a democratic congress sign on to this treaty?</p></blockquote> <p>I believe there are two issues here. First, the treaty would have to be ratified which I think takes a 2/3 vote in the Senate. Second, it would probably require enabling legislation and this would probably be subject to the 60 vote cloture requirement in the Senate.</p>

Can a democratic President w/ a democratic congress sign on to this treaty?

I believe there are two issues here. First, the treaty would have to be ratified which I think takes a 2/3 vote in the Senate. Second, it would probably require enabling legislation and this would probably be subject to the 60 vote cloture requirement in the Senate.

]]> By: tjbs http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376375 tjbs Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:40:02 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376375 <p>Can a democratic President w/ a democratic congress sign on to this treaty?</p> Can a democratic President w/ a democratic congress sign on to this treaty?

]]> By: Christy Hardin Smith http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376368 Christy Hardin Smith Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:36:51 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376368 <p>FYI — Prof. Erwin Chemerinsky is chatting live in the next thread about civil liberties, the rule of law, the problems of the Bush Administration — and asking why the presidential candidates aren’t addressing these issues. It’s a provocative post. So drop in and say hello and ask a question or two while we have such an expert in house. :)</p> FYI — Prof. Erwin Chemerinsky is chatting live in the next thread about civil liberties, the rule of law, the problems of the Bush Administration — and asking why the presidential candidates aren’t addressing these issues. It’s a provocative post. So drop in and say hello and ask a question or two while we have such an expert in house. :)

]]> By: tjbs http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376367 tjbs Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:36:37 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376367 <p>In the USA yea at the Hague(?) they don’t honor our lawlessness.</p> In the USA yea at the Hague(?) they don’t honor our lawlessness.

]]> By: msmolly http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376366 msmolly Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:35:18 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376366 <p>I keep reading about “testify under oath” and I truly wonder why we think these scumbags (Rove at the top of the list) would tell the truth about anything under oath? I doubt that an oath to tell the truth would mean much. Us law abiding citizens would feel honor-bound to our oath. Rove? Not so much…</p> I keep reading about “testify under oath” and I truly wonder why we think these scumbags (Rove at the top of the list) would tell the truth about anything under oath? I doubt that an oath to tell the truth would mean much. Us law abiding citizens would feel honor-bound to our oath. Rove? Not so much…

]]> By: QuakerGirl http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376365 QuakerGirl Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:34:40 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376365 <p>Raven - I hear the Hague brought up frequently but I cannot cite one case in which the likes of a Henry Kissinger has gone before them. Christopher Hitches wrote The Trial of Henry Kissinger building a war crimes case against Kissinger. Even his Harper’s essay on the extermination of thousands of innocent Laotian villagers didn’t stir Congress into investigating these Kissinger atrocities. </p> <p>I believe in making this public at every turn so no one can ever say they didn’t know. If not for the net this would be forgotten.</p> Raven – I hear the Hague brought up frequently but I cannot cite one case in which the likes of a Henry Kissinger has gone before them. Christopher Hitches wrote The Trial of Henry Kissinger building a war crimes case against Kissinger. Even his Harper’s essay on the extermination of thousands of innocent Laotian villagers didn’t stir Congress into investigating these Kissinger atrocities.

I believe in making this public at every turn so no one can ever say they didn’t know. If not for the net this would be forgotten.

]]> By: cbl2 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376361 cbl2 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:33:41 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376361 <p>Pardons</p> <p>letting your inner wonk run wild - (courtesy of obsidian wings commenter )-</p> <p> Presidential Power Unbound: A Comparative Look at Presidential Pardon Power:</p> <p>pdf warning - <a href="http://professional.jodyb.net/Pardons.pdf" rel="nofollow">link</a></p> Pardons

letting your inner wonk run wild – (courtesy of obsidian wings commenter )-

Presidential Power Unbound: A Comparative Look at Presidential Pardon Power:

pdf warning – link

]]> By: earlofhuntingdon http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376360 earlofhuntingdon Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:33:26 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/07/siegelman-all-roads-lead-to-rove/#comment-1376360 <p>Good analogy. But Zola spoke for a movement. It took years to release Dreyfus from prison and to restore his army rank. It took an act of the French legislature to void his conviction because the army - like a Texas judge, the then pope and our current president - had defined itself as incapable of doing wrong and refused to vacate his conviction based on its obvious injustice (the spy he was confused with had admitted his guilt). </p> <p>A couple of episodes on <em>60 Minutes</em> and <em>threats </em>of Congressional questioning won’t be enough. Karl’s Way is the rock on which the current GOP has built its church. Exposing and dethroning his actions and methods will not be an easy or fair fight. An attentive Congress, devoted prosecutor and voluble blogosphere will have to make it their <em>good war</em>.</p> Good analogy. But Zola spoke for a movement. It took years to release Dreyfus from prison and to restore his army rank. It took an act of the French legislature to void his conviction because the army – like a Texas judge, the then pope and our current president – had defined itself as incapable of doing wrong and refused to vacate his conviction based on its obvious injustice (the spy he was confused with had admitted his guilt).

A couple of episodes on 60 Minutes and threats of Congressional questioning won’t be enough. Karl’s Way is the rock on which the current GOP has built its church. Exposing and dethroning his actions and methods will not be an easy or fair fight. An attentive Congress, devoted prosecutor and voluble blogosphere will have to make it their good war.

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