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	<title>Comments on: McCain Health Care:  Social Darwinism For All, Especially The Already Haves</title>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375852</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 05:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375852</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;It’s about time that someone begins attacking some of the key assumptions of Gooper logic….&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I didn’t get in a comment on Ian Welch’s last beautiful (yes beautiful) post on economics and why we’re sinkin’ fast, despite being more productive. So, …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Essentially we have a system where corporations and rich individuals have taken over and they’re simply forcing more and more wealth into their hands and away from the underlying system. This is causing stresses which will eventually push us into a deep dark hole.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We’re seeing it in increasing costs in health care, increasing oil &amp; gasoline prices, increasing tax breaks for the rich, a housing sector disaster, a derivatives market problem (over leveraging) and so on.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Politically there are 3 active groups in America: the Republicans (Conservatives) who think everything is fine and we should speed up our race to the cliff’s edge; Conservative Democrats who hedge everything and seem to know there’s a problem, but don’t have the backbone to gen up a real lasting solution and fight to get it in place and Liberal Democrats who know there’s a problem and want to solve it, but who have been in a minority and can’t do it by themselves.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Then, there’s the problem of leadership. Edwards offered great ideas and energy to do a lot of positive things. Characterized as dangerously Liberal he was muted and pushed aside. He also had less name recognition and didn’t get the public funding support needed. His precise policies could’ve been called Conservative or Liberal Dem, but he was out to solve problems Progressively, a la Teddy Roosevelt. At least he helped set the agenda and gave us many ideas to work with. Clinton is only a leader when pushed to it by political forces. Obama is still a bit of a cipher. He talks a good game, but there’s a newness which leaves me wondering whether he can really get anything done. Still, he’s our only hope for clean good government and perhaps responsiveness to an eager Liberal electorate.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Without Edwards the big question for Liberals is what the plan is. What’s the big picture? What’s the architectural blueprint? What will Senate and an Obama presidency produce? Will it be hodgepodge or something coherent and forceful and to the point.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We need to focus on people, the system, transparency and fixing the big problems which everyone agrees are sinking our ship.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Maybe Ian or someone else would care to write about this new economic time and how government should behave to fix our problems.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It’s about time that someone begins attacking some of the key assumptions of Gooper logic….</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I didn’t get in a comment on Ian Welch’s last beautiful (yes beautiful) post on economics and why we’re sinkin’ fast, despite being more productive. So, …</p>
<p>Essentially we have a system where corporations and rich individuals have taken over and they’re simply forcing more and more wealth into their hands and away from the underlying system. This is causing stresses which will eventually push us into a deep dark hole.</p>
<p>We’re seeing it in increasing costs in health care, increasing oil &amp; gasoline prices, increasing tax breaks for the rich, a housing sector disaster, a derivatives market problem (over leveraging) and so on.</p>
<p>Politically there are 3 active groups in America: the Republicans (Conservatives) who think everything is fine and we should speed up our race to the cliff’s edge; Conservative Democrats who hedge everything and seem to know there’s a problem, but don’t have the backbone to gen up a real lasting solution and fight to get it in place and Liberal Democrats who know there’s a problem and want to solve it, but who have been in a minority and can’t do it by themselves.</p>
<p>Then, there’s the problem of leadership. Edwards offered great ideas and energy to do a lot of positive things. Characterized as dangerously Liberal he was muted and pushed aside. He also had less name recognition and didn’t get the public funding support needed. His precise policies could’ve been called Conservative or Liberal Dem, but he was out to solve problems Progressively, a la Teddy Roosevelt. At least he helped set the agenda and gave us many ideas to work with. Clinton is only a leader when pushed to it by political forces. Obama is still a bit of a cipher. He talks a good game, but there’s a newness which leaves me wondering whether he can really get anything done. Still, he’s our only hope for clean good government and perhaps responsiveness to an eager Liberal electorate.</p>
<p>Without Edwards the big question for Liberals is what the plan is. What’s the big picture? What’s the architectural blueprint? What will Senate and an Obama presidency produce? Will it be hodgepodge or something coherent and forceful and to the point.</p>
<p>We need to focus on people, the system, transparency and fixing the big problems which everyone agrees are sinking our ship.</p>
<p>Maybe Ian or someone else would care to write about this new economic time and how government should behave to fix our problems.</p>
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		<title>By: BostonChuck</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375146</link>
		<dc:creator>BostonChuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 19:19:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375146</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It’s time we stopped using the insurance companies’ framing of “pre-existing condition.”  It’s just a condition — it’s only “pre-existing” in reference to insurance coverage.  I’ve got AIDS, have had it for two-plus decades.  Ever try keeping “continuity of care” (another insurance frame) for that long in this country?  With decent “universal” coverage, none of our conditions would be considered in relation to insurance, just in relation to our lives, dammit.  Then we could call them for what they are:  “disease”, “illness”, “life-changing event”.  Down with “pre-existing”!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s time we stopped using the insurance companies’ framing of “pre-existing condition.”  It’s just a condition — it’s only “pre-existing” in reference to insurance coverage.  I’ve got AIDS, have had it for two-plus decades.  Ever try keeping “continuity of care” (another insurance frame) for that long in this country?  With decent “universal” coverage, none of our conditions would be considered in relation to insurance, just in relation to our lives, dammit.  Then we could call them for what they are:  “disease”, “illness”, “life-changing event”.  Down with “pre-existing”!</p>
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		<title>By: clymela</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375119</link>
		<dc:creator>clymela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 18:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375119</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In response to Christi-way back there yes that telvision show is an Oprah production and she and her millionaire/billionaire friends give to the “deserving” destitute.  Can’t remember when I was so insulted.  OOH! and only the “deserving” poor.does that make everyone  else doing the right thing with no money undeserving?&lt;br /&gt;
I heard Russert just shaking with outrage over the Clinton riches.  I know that he makes big bucks too and I bet he has never paid his fair share.&lt;br /&gt;
I have problems with the Clinton’s but no butt licking pundit is going to be able to trash Hillary and come away clean.  What scum.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to Christi-way back there yes that telvision show is an Oprah production and she and her millionaire/billionaire friends give to the “deserving” destitute.  Can’t remember when I was so insulted.  OOH! and only the “deserving” poor.does that make everyone  else doing the right thing with no money undeserving?<br />
I heard Russert just shaking with outrage over the Clinton riches.  I know that he makes big bucks too and I bet he has never paid his fair share.<br />
I have problems with the Clinton’s but no butt licking pundit is going to be able to trash Hillary and come away clean.  What scum.</p>
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		<title>By: nonplussed</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375078</link>
		<dc:creator>nonplussed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375078</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;So you’re cool for 18 months. Obtaining SSD and the concomitant Medicare benefits within that 18 period is a formidable challenge, apply w/o delay. Hiring an able professional to do all that work is a good investment and raises the odds of success. By law they can only charge a set amount, so you don’t give away too much.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you’re cool for 18 months. Obtaining SSD and the concomitant Medicare benefits within that 18 period is a formidable challenge, apply w/o delay. Hiring an able professional to do all that work is a good investment and raises the odds of success. By law they can only charge a set amount, so you don’t give away too much.</p>
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		<title>By: i4u2bi</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375073</link>
		<dc:creator>i4u2bi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375073</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;How is it so confusing to Americans that social responsibility is good for America. It’s not just a question having a healthy workforce and decreased risk of contagions….a people not concerned with their brethren are morally bankrupt. A system akin to this is doomed.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How is it so confusing to Americans that social responsibility is good for America. It’s not just a question having a healthy workforce and decreased risk of contagions….a people not concerned with their brethren are morally bankrupt. A system akin to this is doomed.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk James Murphy, M.D.</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375070</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk James Murphy, M.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375070</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;And I haven’t necessarily seen that commitment to service as a part of the healthcare bargain in far too many instances over the past few years. It’s enough to make a person cynical and skeptical of motives, isn’t it?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sure did the trick for me ;)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And I haven’t necessarily seen that commitment to service as a part of the healthcare bargain in far too many instances over the past few years. It’s enough to make a person cynical and skeptical of motives, isn’t it?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Sure did the trick for me ;)</p>
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		<title>By: katymine</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375069</link>
		<dc:creator>katymine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375069</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;When the wingnuts start throwing out the Socialized Medicine line…..&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I ask them a few questions…..&lt;br /&gt;
“Define socialized medicine”&lt;br /&gt;
“So you want to abolish the military medical system?”&lt;br /&gt;
“Would you call the VA healthcare system socialized medicine?”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;THE two socialized medicine systems in America are and have been for the military and Vets….. Rummy nearly killed the stateside military healthcare delivery system but still it exists in military initializations around the world&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the wingnuts start throwing out the Socialized Medicine line…..</p>
<p>I ask them a few questions…..<br />
“Define socialized medicine”<br />
“So you want to abolish the military medical system?”<br />
“Would you call the VA healthcare system socialized medicine?”</p>
<p>THE two socialized medicine systems in America are and have been for the military and Vets….. Rummy nearly killed the stateside military healthcare delivery system but still it exists in military initializations around the world</p>
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		<title>By: BobbyG</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375068</link>
		<dc:creator>BobbyG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375068</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I been sayin’ this at every turn. The phrase “universal coverage” is a sop to the insurance industry. They all intend to keep the no-value-added middlemen in the game.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I been sayin’ this at every turn. The phrase “universal coverage” is a sop to the insurance industry. They all intend to keep the no-value-added middlemen in the game.</p>
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		<title>By: JEP07</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375066</link>
		<dc:creator>JEP07</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375066</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Tracey Russo, Elizabeth Edwards and Christy together for the first time, results in one more myth-shatering post at FDL.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks for the insight and the opinions. I think you have put together a great challenge here, that demands real answers from “The Republican Candidate” (who needs Manchurians when we got Republicans…). but I would guess we will never get those answers because the hypocrisy will be so transparent.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It is ironic that, regardless of how long it may have taken them to treat him, Mccain got more health care as a prisoner of war than Americans with pre-existing conditions or no insurance due to low income, get from our “world class health care system.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I posed a starting point one time in a health-care thread here, long ago.  First, consider the run-around every patient gets during the diagnosis of their ailments; the labwork and clinics can be endless and frustratingly futile. I am sure Elizabeth wouod agree, and anyone else who has gone months waiting for definitive diagnosis.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This first step in the healing process, (actually identifying the disease or condition,) is second only to ballistic drug costs in contributing to the astronomical rise in health-care costs as a whole.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Federal diagnostic clinics wqould eliminate a big part of this cost.  It would provide primary health providers with IMMEDIATE diagnosis tools, and then it would be up to them how to treat it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This would limit liability insurance costs drastically, especially to the federal medical doctors, because their only job would be to discover, not treat the patient.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It isn’t the whole-answer those of us who envy Canada and France would prefer, but it would be a very good start in the right direction, and would take one of the most hypocritical and critical profit motives out of the CEO’s managed-health-care loop.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Federal diagnostic clinics should be the first step towards universal healthcare.  Because, if I may be trite, after prevention, diagnosis is where healthcare begins.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tracey Russo, Elizabeth Edwards and Christy together for the first time, results in one more myth-shatering post at FDL.</p>
<p>Thanks for the insight and the opinions. I think you have put together a great challenge here, that demands real answers from “The Republican Candidate” (who needs Manchurians when we got Republicans…). but I would guess we will never get those answers because the hypocrisy will be so transparent.</p>
<p>It is ironic that, regardless of how long it may have taken them to treat him, Mccain got more health care as a prisoner of war than Americans with pre-existing conditions or no insurance due to low income, get from our “world class health care system.”</p>
<p>I posed a starting point one time in a health-care thread here, long ago.  First, consider the run-around every patient gets during the diagnosis of their ailments; the labwork and clinics can be endless and frustratingly futile. I am sure Elizabeth wouod agree, and anyone else who has gone months waiting for definitive diagnosis.</p>
<p>This first step in the healing process, (actually identifying the disease or condition,) is second only to ballistic drug costs in contributing to the astronomical rise in health-care costs as a whole.</p>
<p>Federal diagnostic clinics wqould eliminate a big part of this cost.  It would provide primary health providers with IMMEDIATE diagnosis tools, and then it would be up to them how to treat it.</p>
<p>This would limit liability insurance costs drastically, especially to the federal medical doctors, because their only job would be to discover, not treat the patient.</p>
<p>It isn’t the whole-answer those of us who envy Canada and France would prefer, but it would be a very good start in the right direction, and would take one of the most hypocritical and critical profit motives out of the CEO’s managed-health-care loop.</p>
<p>Federal diagnostic clinics should be the first step towards universal healthcare.  Because, if I may be trite, after prevention, diagnosis is where healthcare begins.</p>
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		<title>By: Christy Hardin Smith</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375065</link>
		<dc:creator>Christy Hardin Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 16:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/06/mccain-health-care-social-darwinism-for-all-especially-the-already-haves/#comment-1375065</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, well, preventative medicine seems like a lost art on so many fronts these days it’s almost impossible to know where to start with that.  Sad to say…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, well, preventative medicine seems like a lost art on so many fronts these days it’s almost impossible to know where to start with that.  Sad to say…</p>
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