While resembling an August 2002 memorandum drafted largely by Mr. Yoo, the March 2003 opinion went further, arguing more explicitly that the president’s war powers could trump the law against torture, which it said could not constitutionally be enforced if it interfered with the commander in chief’s orders.
Scott L. Silliman, head of the Center on Law, Ethics and National Security at Duke University and a former Air Force lawyer, said he did not believe that the 2003 memorandum directly caused mistreatment. But Mr. Silliman added, “The memo helped to build a culture that, in the absence of leadership from the highest ranks of the Pentagon, allowed the abuses at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere.”
Because opinions issued by the Office of Legal Counsel are “binding on the Defense Department,” Mr. Silliman said, Mr. Yoo’s opinion effectively sidelined military lawyers who strongly opposed harsh interrogation methods.
There were JAG corps lawyers and judges, and upper-level brass, grumbling and pushing back on various issues. But the neocons appear to have engineered and end-run on a policy decision to promote rather than try to prevent torture techniques being used that run contrary to the UCMJ. There were instances of strong pushback -- the Mora work being a prime example, as well as Lt. Commander Swift and others who stood for the rule of law.
But where were the usual retired military brass surrogates speaking for the folks still in uniform, whose personal opinions are restricted from public airing under the UCMJ? Usually they are dispatched whenever there is a fundamental disagreement between civilian and military leadership on an issue of consequence. The Abu Ghraib reaction was fairly swift denunciations and horror, but I'm trying to recall objections prior to those pictures surfacing and not coming up with much. Anyone recall specific instances? If so, let me know.
If there was objection to the Cheney JAG end-run, why wasn't it getting more media play? Because, frankly, the yappy stylings of Huckleberry Graham's petulant hearing question performances when coupled with his over-the-top "yer either patriotic or yer agin' us" MCA defense on the Senate floor leave a lot to be desired in the "public outcry" column. And that goes for John McCain as well.
As we look further at this, the layers of complicity and silence weigh heavily. What we already know, and have known, is bad enough. But I cannot shake feeling that the worst is yet to come in terms of revelations of misconduct and acquiescence -- every time we've hit the rock bottom of unethical and illegal conduct, we take the next step down to another stomach churning revelation. And top-level officials have yet to feel the heat on any of this, even though it was their policy directive bidding that Yoo was doing.
I agree with Marty, when it rains it pours..."they were willing to throw away our values" pretty much sums it up in a nutshell, doesn't it? Yoo's discussion with Esquire about his memo being declassified and other legal justifications from his perspective does nothing to dispel this and, as Marty aptly notes, the record doesn't sustain his assertions. But this, in particular, from the Esquire discussions with Yoo is deliberately obtuse obfuscation:
I don’t [necessarily] agree that the methods did migrate to Iraq, because I don’t know for a fact that they did. The analysis of the memo released yesterday was not to apply to Iraq, and we made clear in other settings that the Geneva Conventions fully applied to the war in Iraq. There was no intention or desire that the memo released yesterday apply to Iraq. (emphasis mine)
It's as though all efforts to have honesty, integrity or accountability seep into their internal versions of reality are vehemently opposed at all times. Can't possibly look the consequences of your decisions straight in the eye and accept your role in them, now can you?
Especially given that wanna-be King Petulance stomped out of a lengthy meeting on Afghanistan policy with NATO allies because it ran too long for his scheduling tic, at a time when Taliban forces are massing on the Afghan/Pakistani border again and lengthy discussion about strategy and long-term planning was desperately needed. How is it possible that one administration can drop so many balls, create so many self-inflicted consequences and leave so many problems hanging at one time?
The rain has been pouring down outside my window in large sheets that run like rivulets across our yard and down the storm drains all day long...but we can't just wash this stain away.
(YouTube of Lt. Commander Charles Swift discussing the importance of the rule of law and its application to the President as well as the rest of the nation.)
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A stain on the moral fabric of this nation that shall never be expunged.
This stuff in Yoo’s memo about the 4th ammendment being null and void during domestic millitary operations is the most disturbing shit. It is so surreal, that I begin to doubt my own sanity.
This kind of behavior is SOP for anyone who wants to get promoted. Your boos doesn’t need to tell you what to say, what to avoid saying, what to do, what to avoid doing. It’s always obvious what’s expected. I’m amazed that there was a single solitary soul who pushed back.
Aloha, Christy! Have you read the Taguba report? That was the one that was commissioned to examine Abu Ghraib! Dang, you and Marcy aren’t leaving me much but the bones to pick over on the Yoo torture memo. I have a post coming up at M&C today…!
I keep thinking about the usefulness of the timing of the Bush/Cheney personal family vindictiveness with Joe and Valerie Wilson…and the decided lack of pushback on so many things that should have had more of it. And I can’t help but wonder how many more people would have come forward but for that threat of personal vendetta against themselves and others in their family…
Isn’t it fascinating that Yoo can pick and choose which peoples and/or places the Geneva Conventions apply to…?
The only way you could get and keep a job within the Bu’ush administration was to parrot the Unfettered, Plenary Power Unitary Executive line that Cheney has long been pushing.
That they were willing to go to the lengths of gutting a nuclear counter-proliferation project speaks volumes
If you’re harboring Bushco, you’re complicit….or scared.
Yoo’s just following the official Bush/Cheney doctrine concering damn pieces of paper.
That’s why this part of the post sticks out for me:
Folks in uniform often speak with those who are retired — old commanders and mentors, for instance — sometimes to seek guidance, and other times just to vent. Those retired warhorses often are able to speak publicly while their active duty friends cannot.
Another vehicle for active duty folks to let their feelings be known is through friendly politicians. Jack Murtha is an example of this, as his speeches during his memorable one man C-SPAN evening of “me vs. the GOP” demonstrate. Paraphrasing, he said again and again things like, “I talk with a lot of military folks, of all kinds of ranks, and they tell me things privately that they can’t say publicly, like ‘it’s time to get out of Iraq’!”
To answer Christy’s question, I too am coming up with *crickets*.
The problem is that prior to the release of the photos, there was simply the refrain “we don’t torture — we don’t torture” and so complaints about the policy (and a closely-held policy it was, don’t forget) were not going to find any kind of fertile ground in which to grow.
Until those in uniform feel as if someone is going to take them and their complaints seriously, they aren’t going to speak out. You can call it “keeping your powder dry” or “keeping your head down”, but either way, it was mighty quiet until those photos showed up.
I always thought that the persescution of Joe Wilson was a signal to other whistleblower wannabes.
I agree. The intimidation is horrifying to contemplate. Evil people manipulating facts to suit their agenda and damnation to anyone who dares threaten their reality!
Christy, I have always believed that the primary reason for the Plame leak, after ruining Valerie’s career, was as an object lesson to anyone else at the CIA who may have been considering speaking up. Wilson wounded them-they had to stop the bleeding, and they did so in a manner both ruthless and stupid.
“Especially given that wanna-be King Petulance stomped out of a lengthy meeting on Afghanistan policy with NATO allies because it ran too long…”
Jesus Christ! If McCain gets elected/appointed we can look forward to 4 more years of this bullshit.
here’s the nagging reality;
yoo said it and therefore made it so.
this is depraved, the man MUST be disbarred, his desicions MUST be revoked and the only way to do that is through an end run, disbar the man for his inept and bizarre points of view and disabuse any president future or present from believing they have yoo as some kind of excuse for their depravity
he must be disbarred
I would consider that ancillary, I think Darth took it real personal and lashed out without any foresight or thought given to the consequences…!
We’ve had day of doggie trauma here today — had to run PJ to the vet. She snagged a back toenail on a blanket while she was trying to run toward the door when the UPS man dropped off a package. Poor pooch was bleeding all over the place, and is still thoroughly traumatized.
And on top of that, we’ve had to rescue a puppy that wandered into our yard, and came very close to getting hit by a car. Think we’ve found it a new home, but I’m trying to balance sick doggie, freaked out new doggie and very excited Peanut who has made a new pal. Whew, what a day…
Christy
didn’t see this linked above -WaPo
today’s WaPo claiming Ashcroft nor Deputy Thompson “were aware” of the memo
actually can not recall if this is news at the Lake or not
Two birds with one stone, then.
I have to quote myself to make this point;
yoo becomes the most powerful man on the planet, making law, dismissing law and granting whatever he wants to grant, by virtue of a memo
that is bizarre
This is also interesting:
Post: Ashcroft Didn’t Sign Off on Yoo Pentagon Torture Memo
The rats are running away from this disaster as fast as they can.
There are a lot of folks saying they didn’t have any knowledge of it — which makes that Saturday release of it all the more intriguing in my mind…thanks for the heads up on the WaPo bit, I missed that this morning with all the doggie running around I’ve been doing. Much appreciated.
not good enough, the memos must be dismissed as worthless, this can only be done through a disbarrrment
It’s amazing how much blood can ooze out from the quick, toe nail…!
Definitely two birds…! ;-)
It was really frightening — I got it staunched as quickly as a could, but The Peanut had already run for her “doctor kit” to make PJ better. You should have seen me trying to juggle bleeding, freaked out dachshund and five-year-old doctor-wanna-be and not get even more blood everywhere in the process. It’s funny now, but at the time it was like something in a Marx Brothers movie…
Heh, that refutes Yoo’s tale to Esquire:
Esquire: Ashcroft saw it?
Yoo: He approved it. And so the idea that it’s slapdash, or it was haphazard– I don’t think was true.
Excellent Christy.
The release of the ‘Yoo Memo’ has merely confirmed what many have long suspected. And, we may be assured, many more such ‘confirmations’ await us.
‘Justice’ on the other foot, will however, in all likelihood, elude us.
America is and has been under the most serious and, so far, successful internal assault in its history. There are some who know this, a fair portion of those who know also understand the implications inherent in this situation. Leaving those implications aside, what is the most likely reaction experienced by the vast majority of those who do understand?
It is a feeling of powerlessness, of being helpless to effect meaningful ‘understanding’ or even recognition among fellow citizens, and more especially, a sense of profound inability to affect the awareness of thse who shoould know ‘better’, the ‘Representatives’of the people, and others, both civilian and military ‘leaders’.
Perversely, if not unexpectedly, ‘language’ the tongue itself, is so twisted and given to such convolution that ‘horror’ is rendered, into sanitized, sterile, non-informative, misleading, and pompous platitude.
At the same time. huge numbers of war-dead and injured become merely the boring dross of balance sheets …
Mostly, we are just left with questions, not answers, and a loud and noisy crowd (the usual suspects) is yelling that the questions are ’stupid’!
Ignorance is no excuse, but it is humankind’s favorite.
You and I, though, knowing, cannot make that claim, that particular bliss shall not be ours.
awwww
awwwwww
and awwwwwwwwwwwwww
A nice cup of tea awaits you….
Ahh, the joys of parenthood! Been there, Done that…! 8-)
But Christy - that’s the whole point, isn’t it? Make people afraid?
ayyep!
CIA in the field didn’t want to torture, so OLC delivers a memo to cover their asses, thereby taking away their excuse for objecting and making it an act of insubordination if they continue to object or refuse to employ the “harsh interrogation methods.”
Oh look, armed forces personnel object to torture, so OLC trots out another memo, taking away their right to object w/o being labeled insubordinate (which in the armed services can land you in the brig)
Some telcoms and internet providers have voiced opposition to domestic spying and, lookee lookee, now WH is trying to get them retroactive immunity which will take away their grounds for objetcing and make them insubordinate if they don’t comply.
It’s all the same game
Here’s what I’ve been thinking about - and having trouble getting clear in my mind.
I can’t see why the government would go through all these legal shenanigans and obfuscations just to allow the president and others to get away with torture. Why was this torture business so important to these people that they machine to justify it got going before it had even started to happen to any great extent? (At least by my understanding of the sequence of events?) Why torture as a policy? It makes no sense.
Some possibilities have wandered through my mind, but I’m not really satisfied with any of them.
1. A few people at very high levels get a charge out of the idea of torturing people, and can get untold numbers of people in multiple departments/branches to facilitate it.
2. They wanted to establish a precedent for unlimited presidential power, because there was something else they wanted to do that was also unacceptable under standard interpretations of the constitution, and maybe worse that what they were already doing. Something we don’t know about yet.
3. I can’t think of anything else.
???
Not to gross anyone out, but we used to have the same problems with goats when we’d trim hooves - our absolute best mathod of getting the bleeding to stop(though in your case, you would have to cut it down tremendously) was to cut a sanitary napkin in half, spritz on some Betadine, slap that napkin on the bottom of the hoof and hold it on with some judiciously attached duct tape. Worked every time.
Look at the fall of democracy and the rise of fascism in Germany. The parallels are striking. It’s not hyperbole but historical fact. Many saw the Nazi’s as an opportunity to advance their careers and jumped on board willingly. Many in the Republican Party fit this mold. Willing to sell their country and it’s ideals for positions of power and priviledge. If Congress, or the people, are unwilling to hold these people accountable then it’s time to stick the fork in America.
My belief is that everything that has been done since Jan., 2001 has been designed to send two messages: First, “So, what are you going to do about it?” and “You’d better be afraid…very afraid”. And, they’ve been just terrifically successful. Until we stop being afraid of that knock at the door, the public humiliation, etc., these guys just keep on winning.
And it worked brilliantly.
“Why was this torture business so important to these people that they machine to justify it got going before it had even started to happen to any great extent? (At least by my understanding of the sequence of events?) Why torture as a policy? It makes no sense.”
_________
Vengeance for 9/11, pure and simple. Majorly kick some raghead ass (Ledeen’s “to show the world we mean business”), and maybe, just maybe get some useful random intel tidbits in the process. Mostly, though, visceral retaliation.
[Mod Note; it’s understood in the context of the comment, but generally the use of that term is discouraged at FDL. Thanks.]
Shinseki got shinsekied. I was trying to remember but there was a vice chief I think of the Air Force who answered Rumsfeld’s questions frankly and got passed over. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Peter Pace got booted when he went off the reservation once too often. Even someone like Col. McMaster who was responsible for the much touted successes in Tal Afar that were supposed to be a blueprint for victory in Iraq got passed over for promotion to Brigadier twice. Someone mentioned Taguba above. He was snubbed by Rumsfeld and forced to retire because of his report.
Meanwhile Doug Feith the fucking stupidest guy on the planet got on famously with Chairman of the Joint Chiefs General Richard “I got my Medal of Freedom when I retired” Myers. And then there is David “I do what I am told” Petraeus.
I don’t know about you but I begin to see a pattern here, not a justification but an explanation (CYA) for why so many in the the uniformed military did not stand up.
i’d add whistleblower Joe Darby who was publicly outed by rumsfeld and had to go into hiding with his family because of the seriousness of the death threats.
those death threats didn’t come from cheney or addington - they came for american citizens who were up in arms that a military man would object to the torture and out the torturers.
Wow, we lost a B-1 bomber in Qatar!
..is working
Oh, poor PJ and Puppy and you!! Did I get the distinct feeling you might be considering keeping…hee, hee…puppy?
Well, not so much anymore, but it sure as heck hasn’t failed yet.
You can always use a damp tea bag to help stop a bleeding nail if you don’t have quik stop(a dog grooming product). The bigger problem is if the nail hasn’t come off all the way. If you have any arnica it would help with the pain.
Well, it’s only on page A-4, so it’s not really that big a story in DC either, apparently.
/snark
When can they arrest Addington? Just sayin’…
His report was throughly scrubbed for any high level linkage to say LT Gen Sanchez and Rummy… The highest it went was a LTCol who was relieved of command and given a letter of reprimand… Basically, only peons like Lyndie England was held to account! What a travesty…!
Understood. But the point remains. Not a term I would ever use in seriousness.
It is not as if there were not plenty of evidence before this — for years. Nevertheless, the crimes continue. How can that be?
The answer and a side note:
Nancy Pelosi took impeachment off the table in May 2006.
Nancy Pelosi became Speaker of the House on November 16, 2006.
Data from http://icasualties.org/oif/
Since May 2006 through March 2008 there have been 1,700 US & UK Military Fatalities (and tens of thousands Iraqis)
Since November 2006 through March 2008 there have been 1,205 US & UK Military Fatalities (and tens of thousand Iraqis)
Good job Nancy. I regret every word I have uttered in both support and defense of you.
IIRC because of military protocol Taguba could not investigate anyone higher ranking then himself. I am not sure how Karpinski fit into this.
CHS:
This (via TPM) might be why he stomped out of that Afghanistan meeting.
Honestly, I can’t take this anymore. Somebody must be able to pull together a case of conspiracy to overthrow the government or something. Surely, there is evidence of a conspiracy to do so, isn’t there?
Fraud?
Breach of Fiduciary Duty?
Treason?
War Crimes?
RICO?
Something?
I’m seeing this listed on rawstory.com on MOnday, Oct. 23, 2006 as from a “60 Minutes” interview - which looks as if it took place the night before.
They torture to let us know how far they are willing to go. It is no accident that it was leaked. We are the enemy.
The Clinton’s are really rich…per Friday news dump…their taxes…
don’t forget, IOKIYAR …
did they release tax returns? thought they were going to stall till closer to PA. Interesting …
how rich?
Probalby gotta get it out so the stench will abate by PA day.
If it make syou feel any better, all this sick immunity they’ve given themselves, only applies inside the US.
Leave the country, and maybe….?
If Bushco acted on something that was not signed off on by the AG, would it still be legal? Meaning that the job of the AG is to tell the Pres what is legal and what isn’t legal…if he was never in the loop…well….
$109 million from 2000-2006. She makes more than a million a year as Senator…I didn’t realize that Senators made that much a year. Oh, well.
i’ve been trying to work my way through the yoo brief today, and i’m seeing why everyone who’s tried to read it ends up in a black mood… i can only take bits at a time separated by pacing around the house. reading sands’ vanity fair piece first didn’t help.
i keep thinking back to mark danner’s description of “stress positions” during a conference at stanford in 2006. the whole conference was excellent, but i recommend danner’s talk most of all. mp3’s of all of them can be downloaded from itunes.
if i ever make it through yoo, i’ll transcribe a bit for folks who can’t listen to the mp3s.
Hey, I’m in for buying them a ticket to the Hague.
It’s really appalling. And it gets worse the further you go along — the fourth part is the absolute worst part of it. It’s a painful attempt to school people on how to avoid prosecution by coaching them on how to characterize their own mindsets as they detail what they did to set up their own defense.
I feel dirty having read it, and just talking about it makes me pissed off all over again. It is beyond bad.
“Meaning that the job of the AG is to tell the Pres what is legal and what isn’t legal”
________
Well, the AF is supposed to be the nation’s lawyer, not Bu’ush’s.
Damn, I miss ‘edit.’
sorry to be dense — I don’t understand
thanks
As of 2006 Senate salaries were $165,200 per annum. The President is at $400k per so Senator Clinton may have made $1M but it was not from her senate salary.
Taguba was a MAJ Gen, Karpinski was well within his scope, he was given carte blanche initially until the Sanchez angle seeped in… IIRC, Sanchez had imported the GITMO commander to evaluate and recommend procedures for Abu Ghraib… That was squelched in the report…
I agree. We now have some evidence that Cheney intentionally threw traditional political, ethical and legal restrictions down a rat hole. He threw normal policy processes into his own hat and put it on his head. He obtained via Addington and a pet OLC authorization to torture. He hid the “legal opinions” authorizing it from all but a select few.
Who were they exactly? They had secret, guilty knowledge. They knew that Cheney was behind them. That he acted for the president and his word, rather than the pliable, easily distracted Bush’s was law. As long as Cheney was around, they - and their criminal behavior - were home free.
They.Acted.On.That.Secret.Knowledge. Overrode others, who were dumbfounded as they slowly realized - as we did - who was making decisions, what decisions they made, and that normal policies, policy processes and chains of command were broken.
Who were they exactly?
They don’t!
The current salary (2008) for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $169,300 per year.
Senate Majority & Minority Leaders - $188,100
Nancy gets $217,400 as the Speaker of the House!
Salaries and Benefits of U.S. Congress Members
You are speedy!
that’s a lot of paper!
I’ll bet they lumped her salary together from all the years as Senator rather than per year…it was the way they reported it on the McCain channel.
I, for one (probably the only one on this blog), am really happy for the Clintons’ riches. He bailed the D party out of oblivion and was a decent prez. I happen not to like her very much, but she is smart and hard working and that puts her head & shoulders about most pols.
HRC tax returns - someone here yesterday was alluding to possible bombshell disclosures of ‘off shore’ income - anything ?
Yes, but he is supposed to advise the WH about the legality of what they are doing…he can’t do that if he isn’t told about it.
Thanks for the clarification. That fits with what I was thinking. My understanding of how Miller got sent to “gitmo-ize” Abu Ghraib was (per Seymour Hersh) Rumsfeld to Cambone to Boykin to Miller.
I agree with you on that. I have no problem with how much they make or don’t make. I was never afraid when Clinton was President.
This from CNN says the $109M is jointly for the two of them since Y2K and that they paid ovr $33M in taxes on that amount plus over $10M for charity.
How do you think this not to mention Penn’s meeting with the Colombians to push another free trade deal (that Hillary opposes) will play or not to the folks in the upcoming primaries?
Agree on that point.
Nope, you aren’t the only one — they both wrote books that were bestsellers — partly on the backs of the BS they had to deal with from all of the Arkansas Project and Dan Burton and their ilk crap that got thrown at them for years. For that reason alone, I find it more than amusing that their books sold so well whereas Dan Burton now languishes in nutball pergatory. *g*
It certainly tells us that Penn has 2 jobs like many middle class families in this country. He just has to decide which pays him the most. /s
I also could care less how much money they make. i was more interested in sources of income (the offshore stuff).
I’m much more interested in demanding that McCain release his health records.
How exactly does that make them different from most other politicians on the Hill and quite a few in the West Wing?
Commander in Chief/Unitary (unilateral) Executive and sadistic pleasure. These people are sociopaths.
And, the Clintons paid their taxes.
In addition, their new found affluence causes the Clintophobes to literally suffer apoplectic shock. One must give them credit for that, if for no other reason.
Hey everybody, come see my second zed in two days upstairs!
That was a lot of my point, yeah. Sadistic vengeance, utility be damned.
Don’t forget to look at the Dem lawmakers when you are wondering about the silence. Carl Levin COSPONSORED the Detainee Treatment Act, which he agreed was meant to, and did, take away habeas at GITMO (the only quibble being whether or not he was agreeing to disenfranchise existing cases or not).
Within the last couple of weeks, 60 Minutes have finally gotten around to running a piece on the Kurnaz case. But when was it that we, as a nation, learned about the Kurnaz kidnapping, abuse, coverups, and continued detentions? Back in 2005 and never would have learned any of what we did without habeas and the courts.
Levin, McCain, Clinton, Warner - on the Senate armed services committee and what did they do or say to challenge the constant media drumbeat that only the “worst of the worst” were at GITMO? Well, McCain and Warner added to it, Levin co-sponsored making GITMO a habeas free zone, and Clinton was waging war on flag burning. Kids 11 years old sold to GITMO - and no one says a word. Bipolar London chefs disappeared to GITMO and put for YEARS into solitary - no one says a word.
A case like Kurnaz - where plenty of words were said by the intelligence communities of three countries - hundreds of pages of words - ALL (with the exception of one bizarre memo that relied in part on the fact that Kurnaz prayed during the pledge of allegiance or some such idiocy) EXCULPATORY and all “classified” to prevent use to free Kurnaz.
The reason? It’s the flaw that always existed with the approach by Yoo and Gonzales and Addington, et al. Even if you accepted and believed their theory completely, it only “worked” to avoid liability if someone really was al-Qaeda. This is a point Powell had raised right at the beginning, that you at least needed a fair hearing process before you divested people of GC protections. That was not done.
So as people who were not even combatants, much less “unlawful enemy combatants” much less members of al-Qaeda, were sold to the US in human trafficking transactions, and then disappeared out of country, by the time their feet hit GITMO shores you had a completed war crime and an act (the transport of protected persons out of country) that the Geneva Conventions themselves internally recognize as being a severe breach - - which pretty much means the War Crimes Act as domestic law is in play as well.
This is the point that is continuously overlooked in the analysis of what is going on at GITMO and has gone on there. The instant anyone at GITMO would have a hearing that determines they were NOT an unlawful enemy combatant when they were purchased/shipped/kidnapped to GITMO - - you have a prima facie completed war crime. And one that NOTHING in ANY of the memos protects against. This is where the pretense gets stripped.
Once cases started going to stack up in the civilian courts, they decided to put together the ludicrous “Combatant Status Review Tribunals” at GITMO (following Powell’s original advice and the spirit of the Conventions, years late and without any concern abou that “fair” part). Of the many many many many problems with those hearings, the primary one has always been that any determination by the CSRTs that someone was not an unlawful enemy combatant when they were purchased/shipped/kidnapped is absolutely the same as a finding that every person involved with those purchases/shipments/kidnaps and the interrogations and detentions and abuses thereafter were war criminals.
A finding by a CSRT that someone was not an unlawful enemy combatant was a finding that the CIC, George Bush, was a war criminal.
And so there never were any CSRT findings to that effect that were allowed to stand. This is why in the few cases where an Officer stood tall and refused to find unlawful enemy combatant status, they kept redoing the tribunals until they got the answer they wanted. This is the very basic point that seems to have escaped almost all comment. Even so, one of the big GITMO cheerleaders, way back when the Kurnaz case finally came to light (by aggressive lawyering that did not accept the Yoo/Addington & Posner/Goldsmith approaches), some of the very people who had pushed against any judicial review, like Doug Kmiec, said things like this:
Did that review ever happen? Of course not. So did Kmiec then come out strongly against the DTA suspension of habeas at GITMO and the MCA suspension of habeas worldwide? Well, no, notsomuch.
But more importantly - where were the Dem voices, from Intel and Judiciary and Armed Services committees, hammering over and over on the facts of child purchases and royal screw ups at GITMO? Nowhere to be found. Read the forward to Dodd’s book on his father’s Nuremberg letters and you’ll find a description of the interactions with Harry Reid prior to the MCA vote. Then you won’t be surprised that I am a little underenthusiastic at the thought that we can be lucky enough in the elections to send more Harry Reids to Congress.
In any event, you bet Graham played the situation like a fiddle, because there were a lot of war crimes that were prima facie and right there in front of the world. Among other things, the MCA went back and in addition to granting immunity for abuse and depravity, and encouragement for future coverups and depravity, it “fixed” the little issue of “what about the people who were not unlawful enemy combatants”
How did if fix that problem?
It included an irrebutable presumption that if a CSRT had found someone to be an enemy combatant, they were one.
No problemo, heh, you won’t find that linkage of Rummy to Miller anywhere in the report. Fascinating, don’t you think?
34 - by late 2001, we likely had Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi and Muhammad al-Zery and Ahmed Agiza (Egyptian asylum seekers in Sweden who were taken off by a hooded U.S. team at Stockholm’s Bromma Airport) that we had taken into custody, done who knows what with, then conspired to send for more torture to Egypt. So by the time of the January 2002 memo from “Gonzales” to Bush, selling the concept of “unlawful enemy combatants” and a suspension of the Geneva Conventions rules, there were already possible war crimes hanging in the balance. I put up a comment on one of Marcy’s threads about that, but the tone of the January memo, the one that, when leaked, only caused Russert to talk about whether or not PX provisions were “quaint” so maybe Gonzales was right - - -the bigger statements in that memo are that it will help avoid prosecution by a later administration for war crimes to adopt the “unlawful enemy combatants - no Geneva Conventions” approach.
Certainly, by the time of the August 2002 generic torture memo, we had detainees at GITMO since January 2002 and had Zubaydah blacksited for months and others as well. By September of 2002, Larry Thompson was signing off on sending Maher Arar for Syrian torture.
By January of 2002 and/or August of 2002 or March of 2003 - whenever you pick a point, the likelihood that the President had committed war crimes and needed cover exists at each point, with the how many and how much as the only big questions. So to cover a few war crimes by Bush and the highest officials, would they have quibbled at implementing policies that would degrade the whole military and intelligence community and force the nation to stake a “legal claim” to the mantle of State Sponsor of Global Torture?
I know what I think.
(((Christy)))
(((Peanut)))
(((Puppy)))
(((((PJ)))))
Is subversion the word or concept that you’re looking for?
Thanks for all of that Mary — I do think, when you go back and look at who was picked up when — and what was going on that we even know about during that timeframe, that so much of this was post hoc ass covering for the folks at the top of the pile. But to get there, they had to do some CYA for the folks below them whose asses were waving out in the winds of culpability for conduct, which leads me to believe that’s why the Part IV of the Yoo memo reads so much like woodshedding your criminal client on how his testimony should go according to a carefully guided script on avoiding liability for actions.
That this was coming from the OLC at DOJ makes my flesh crawl. But what they did with this after they got in in writing is even worse. I’m going to be having nightmares for weeks…again. To say I loathe this doesn’t come close to how disgusting this is, but you know what I’m saying…it’s beyond my ability to describe my reaction to this, but it’s at a visceral, gut level. And most of it isn’t so much new factual information, it’s more the “hows and whys” that get filled in a bit at the edges that are making it even worse.
Excellent article Christy!
I got an email today from Robt Wexler asking us to submit questions for him to ask Petraeus to contact@wexlerforcongress.com
———————————————————
Dear ***,
As President Bush stubbornly refuses to change course in Iraq, it grows increasingly frustrating for those of us who have been loudly demanding a withdrawal. I know you share my frustration. Every day, I receive letters and emails from patriotic Americans who want to - somehow – personally contribute to a solution.
Now it is your turn.
Next week, General Petraeus – the architect of the failed surge policy and our chief military leader in Iraq - will be testifying before the Committee on Foreign Affairs.
For too long the Bush Administration has been in a bubble – hiding from the truth and avoiding tough questions from outraged American citizens. This time I am turning the oversight powers of Congress over to you.
I want you to be the ones asking the questions to General Petraus.
Write me back with a short reply and tell me what - specifically - you would like me to ask. Please include your first name as well as your city and state.
I will choose the best two questions and ask them to General Petraeus this Wednesday. You will be able to watch his answers directly on C-Span.
Please consider submitting a question. You already work so hard to bring accountability to this Administration and to bring our troops home from Iraq. I hope this provides you another opportunity for us to collaborate and directly influence the national dialogue.
Please keep your questions short and focused.
I look forward to your response, and thank you for participating directly in our democracy.
Congressman Robert Wexler
www.wexlerforcongress.com
If it was a regular army instead of civilian insurgents we were fighting, then they would simply redefine the word ‘uniform’ to something else, so they could say the people opposing us weren’t due GC rights. It’s all just word mangling, so they can essentially say, “Stop us! Or, shut up.”
Why they’re doing it is as important. Why *are* they doing it? What’s their point? What’s to be gained?
Maybe it stems originally from Dubya’s childhood abhorrence of the written word — which he couldn’t read. Maybe he wants a world without words, so he won’t appear so stupid.
You wouldn’t demand that he also release his mental health records, would you dear friend?