Having read through and digested the Yoo memorandum that was recently declassified, the most striking feature of it -- beyond its utter twisting of the law in a "might equals right" stomach churning justification tango -- is that it reads like a document written in an after-the-fact criminal defense posture. Especially Part IV of the memorandum which spends pages outlining potential defenses and the mindset needed therefor should anyone be accused of committing war crimes or criminal acts.
That this flies in the face of the UCMJ and the Field Manual appears to have no meaning to Mr. Yoo. That it downgrades the precepts behind all the human rights law advances that the United States used to champion for the betterment of people in more repressive societies is just a minor inconvenience for Mr. Yoo and his "superiors." That we will be generations in the repairing of this, if ever? Not even mentioned.
Whither Donald Rumsfeld in this public discussion? And, for that matter, Dick Cheney, in all of this minion kabuki? Which makes this passage from the Vanity Fair piece on the torture policy drafting all the more infuriating:
...The first was a November 2002 “action memo” written by William J. (Jim) Haynes II, the general counsel of the U.S. Department of Defense, to his boss, Donald Rumsfeld; the document is sometimes referred to as the Haynes Memo. Haynes recommended that Rumsfeld give “blanket approval” to 15 out of 18 proposed techniques of aggressive interrogation. Rumsfeld duly did so, on December 2, 2002, signing his name firmly next to the word “Approved.” Under his signature he also scrawled a few words that refer to the length of time a detainee can be forced to stand during interrogation: “I stand for 8–10 hours a day. Why is standing limited to 4 hours?”
The second document on the table listed the 18 proposed techniques of interrogation, all of which went against long-standing U.S. military practice as presented in the Army Field Manual. The 15 approved techniques included certain forms of physical contact and also techniques intended to humiliate and to impose sensory deprivation. They permitted the use of stress positions, isolation, hooding, 20-hour interrogations, and nudity. Haynes and Rumsfeld explicitly did not rule out the future use of three other techniques, one of which was waterboarding, the application of a wet towel and water to induce the perception of drowning.
Yoo sure as hell wasn't writing this memorandum in a vacuum and William Haynes wasn't asking for it in one either. Rummy and Dick wanted cover, and they were going to get it in the form of a memo from OLC written by a loyal and willing scribe that bought into their dictatorial unilateral executive ravings, and that was binding on the military -- and which overrode the vociferous objections from the JAG corps.
And, as Scott Horton details, it was a perversion of the role and the mission of the OLC to use it in that manner:
The OLC was not being asked in a detached way to render its best professional judgment about a question. It was being used as a power redoubt controlled by the Neocon clique to reinforce legally indefensible positions which fellow Neocons (Haynes, Feith and Cambone) had locked themselves into. It was a pure powerplay. And it is fundamentally corrupt, in particular a crude debasing of the role of OLC.
Which serves as both a warning and a clarion call on the need for detailed oversight on who, ultimately, issued these marching orders -- and for a holding to account of those involved. As Froomkin highlighted from yesterday's WaPo piece on the memo:
Largely because of Yoo's memo, however, a Pentagon working group in April 2003 endorsed the continued use of extremely aggressive tactics. The top lawyers for each military service, who were largely excluded from the group, did not receive a final copy of Yoo's March memo and did not know about the group's final report for more than a year, officials said.
Thomas J. Romig, who was then the Army's judge advocate general, said yesterday after reading the memo that it appears to argue there are no rules in a time of war, a concept Romig found "downright offensive."
It certainly is offensive. Scott Horton walks us all through the paces on the internal dynamics in sometimes graphic detail, and ends with this:
When the scandal erupted, Rumsfeld and his crew turned to a standard “soldiers are cannon fodder” response–let’s scapegoat some grunts, and then it’ll all die out, they reasoned. And some two dozen low-level soldiers were court-martialed. Serious officers, and more to the point, the political hacks who crafted the torture system and hammered it through faced no accountability in any form. They depart with a big party and go off to take in six-figure salaries as oil company executives, it seems. The heroic figures in uniform who stood against the criminality are intimidated, hounded, denied promotions, forced out of the service. It’s all like some dark parallel universe–not the America I thought I grew up in.
Silence will buy us a continuation of this corruption of our nation. But isn’t it worth raising your voice and articulating your anger to get our country back?
Amen. To Scott's list of people who ought to have their asses hauled publicly before Congress to answer questions, I'd add David Addington and Scooter Libby to the list, along with Rummy -- the consigliere's to Dick Cheney's grand vision of Executive Fiat ought to answer for their role in promoting this twisted version of America. And I say give Sen. Whitehouse and Sen. Feingold the first whacks at all of them.
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is there any other avenue of oversight besides congress? to say they have been woefully inadequate to the task is, imo, being generous. i want more options…. but i’m having trouble seeing where we might find them.
Delightful photo choice to accompany this kabuki, Christy.
If only Rummy had stuck with the pencil mustache routine…
And, on the basis of Yoo’s memo, every torturer who saw it can use the good-faith variant of the Nuremberg defense.
Per Section 1004 of John McCain’s Detainee Treatment Act (DTA) of 2005, a torturer can plead that he “did not know that the practices were unlawful and a person of ordinary sense and understanding would not know the practices were unlawful [based on] good faith reliance on advice of counsel”:
The seizure of power by a band of criminals who can only be described as American Nazi’s is breathtaking. The insiders discovered it right away, as Paul O’Neil’s book and recent remarks indicate. The rest of us had to find out the hard way. Cheney and his gang were so far off the scale that not even the most paranoid among us could have imagined they would move this far so fast.
All this keeps me thinking how important it is to block immunity for the telecoms. That is the only legal avenue we seem to have left to prosecute these people. I am aware that the Yoo stuff is not involved in FISA, but the whole operation was a package. Not giving legislative immunity to the companies makes it possible to give them some later in return for incriminating informtion on the principals, and since one thing leads to another, the whole skein of lies and subversion will come unraveled.
That’s why Bush is fighting it so hard. They will go to the wall on this one.
May it get them — and him — the same result as those who employed that defense half a century ago.
I’m having the same problem, short of a grand jury investigation or something along those lines. And I don’t see something like that happening any time soon, either…am looking at several things, none of which seem feasible. Very frustrating, to say the least.
I strongly urge everyone to read Scott Horton’s article that Christy so thoughtfully brought to us, and to circulate it far and wide. [I just did, to my “political pals” mailing list. I think I’ll head over to Spotlight next.]
The information is really chilling, and the reference to Kafka all too apt.
There are SO many things to be outraged over with this administration, to say nothing of the day-to-day events of the campaign, but this goes to bedrock American values, and displays the true dark-heartedness of Cheney & his minions.
Phillip Sand was on democracynow this morning and Scott Horton was interviewed by Scott Horton on this subject.
http://antiwar.com/radio/2008/.....-horton-8/
The Geneva Convention, reduced to swiss cheese by the U.S.:
In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:
1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated
humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.inhumanely.To this end the following acts are and shall remain
prohibitedallowed at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
I will not rest until these war criminals are brought to justice and some of our shame acknowledged and brought to light. In the words of William Lloyd Garrison:
“I will be as harsh as truth, and uncompromising as justice… I am in earnest, I will not equivocate, I will not excuse, I will not retreat a single inch, and I will be heard.”
Thanks to FDL for giving me the courage to speak out.
I think the best way to handle this is for the next admin to sign up to the Hague courts. It is certainly beyond US law to punish BushCo, heck for all they’ve ordered in Iraq the most we can do is impeach. And that’s off the table.
If we go with the Hague, we don’t need government cooperation to file charges against BushCo.
Boxturtle (Cheney doing the perp walk is still a dream of mine)
What peterr said.
And Christy, thanks for this superb post about monstrous people and their hideous acts against other human beings, the Constitution, and international law.
Ultimately the Court has to reassert its jurisdiction, as well as the congress. Moreover, activists for justice simply must make the case more effectively to the general public on why “trust us” cannot work. The old maxim “power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely” is borne out dispositively by [1] the entirety of human political history and [1] mountains of 20th century clinical evidence, e.g., that which began with psych research such as the Milgram and Zimbardo studies.
As a purely utilitarian/empirical matter, people overall have to become more aware of the relative risk-cost/benefit assessment, beyond “prissy” constitutional abstractions. Yes, there’s always a risk that oversight begets gratuitous and possibly harmful disclosure of necessary secrets, but acceding to carte blanche authority to violate the constitution without consequence carries a far greater risk, both to our democracy in the aggregate and to every law-abiding citizen.
I’m still a true believer that We The People need to get these war criminals charged and tried in American courts.
Once again a great post. Very informative bloody frightening.
Here I was hoping that you would have the answer
Laura Rozen has up an interesting comment. She makes the case that so much of this is “defense brief” that it could indeed come back and sting the writers, and those who were witting to the defensive cover efforts. Some years back she interviewed EU Judges engaged in efforts regarding war crimes, and was apparently told the act most likely to result in arrest, indictment, and all — was all the effort to create a defense brief cover. See her post yesterday evening… she is suggesting some mentioned in this story might want to be careful about future foreign travel, and apparently she sat in the gallery at the House of Lords when Pinochet issues were debated, and she links the legal arguments with the possibility of future events. In particular, Laura suggests efforts to put things outside the jurisdiction of US courts is a bell ringer for the jurisdiction of international courts, just as the carefully crafted agreement between Pinochet and his successors that gave the Junta immunity from prosecution in Chile, was the basis for the Law Lord’s decision to proceed under British Law.
In otherwords, they may have been too clever by half.
I can’t recommend the Philippe Sands interview on Democracy Now enough!
I’m surprised at the outrage here, and also the comments about needing to do something. There’s really nothing new, except for details of what we knew already. Now details are important, but they are not revelatory. As for doing something, it’s pretty obvious that’s not going to happen.
I’d love to, but I can’t for the life of me figure out HOW! Bush can’t be touched (other than impeachment) for offical acts, and he’s going to get carpel tunnel from all the pardons he’s going to be signing.
I’m afraid that BushCo is exactly the sort of thing that the World Court was set up to handle. They’re certainly criminals, but they’re beyond the reach of US law.
Boxturtle (I’m open to suggestions)
I still hold out at least a faint hope for the International Criminal Court. Here’s a comment I put up yesterday on Glenn’s post about Yoo:
I have since been made aware that there is one more threshold for the ICC and that relates to the US being first in line to prosecute, but there likely is a way around that one based on the clear efforts of the Bush regime to circumvent international treaties and conventions.
This is all the more reason to work to get a progressive into the White House. The only way we’re going to see a lot of the worst offenses of this administration truly purged from the Executive Branch standard operating procedure is to have the Supremes declare those activities unconstitutional.
And the only way that happens is if we have a SCOTUS that isn’t dominated by the likes of Scalia and Thomas.
Don’t forget a strong progressive majority in congress that will actually function as a check on executive overreach.
It’s really pathetic when we have to rely on foreign governments to save us from ourselves.
Let’s hope they really do it, though. Because lord knows we need saving…
What is the procedure for bringing a case before the ICC? Lots of people have talked about this as a way to bring some of these people to justice, But I’m not sure what is actually involved - or how feasible it is.
Marty Lederman makes this same point, quoting that Phillipe Sands piece from Vanity Fair to which Christy links above. Says Sands,
I’m guessing Yoo is done with his foreign traveling for the foreseeable future.
OT
Just came back from errands & switched on “Bear” hearing. Whadda buncha junk. “Who could have known?” Ds are just as bad as Rs. Schumer seems to be completely taken in by his donors, I wonder why. NOT.
BoxTurtle et al
No tinfoil hat required to draw a straight line between the Bush ‘ranch’ in Paraguay and the current line of discussion.
We have the opportunity this year. It may be gone for the rest of our lifetimes. Millions of new people have become politicized and are drawn to the campaigns. People are frustrated, and worried about the future of this nation. They need to become more acutely aware of the very real dangers of things like the “unfettered unitary executive” and warrantless, no-independent-oversight surveillance.
Reading the Yoo memo, I found the thinking stupid, specious, muddled, and contradictory. The absence of any direct reference to Youngstown was pointed out yesterday. This is because for Yoo the power of the President is always at its maximum and that of the Congress, the Constitution, and the laws are always at a minimum. Yes, Yoo qualifies this power with “in a time of war” but Yoo’s use of “in time of war” is so vague and so expansive that it translates to the President can do anything he wants by simply invoking his role as Commander in Chief “in a time of war”.
Yoo then carves out a legal black hole in which to dump detainees and where the President’s power has no limit. On the one hand, he argues they are not covered by Consitutional protections or criminal statutes. This is especially bizarre because this is exactly how the 1993 bombers of the World Trade Center were handled. He then goes on to say that al Qaeda and Taliban are not covered by the Geneva conventions because he defines them as unlawful combatants. These Yoo states can be treated however the US pleases, i.e. because they have no rights. This too has its bizarre aspect. In the Afghanistan campaign we had numerous tribal allies, all of whom would also qualify as unlawful combatants. Now in fact we treated them as lawful combatants and if we treated them as lawful then we should have treated their opponents as lawful as well.
For the rest, Yoo trots out the Constitutional, legal, and treaty requirements which might apply. Each and everyone is presented often in detail and then dismissed with some vast and specious injunction. Maim someone while interrogating them? No problem. If you say, “Well, golly, geez whiz, I didn’t know that beating him with a baseball bat would hurt him”, you are off the hook.
My take on the Yoo memo was that every member of the faculty of the Boalt School of Law should be forced to read it and then state in public why Yoo should be a member of that faculty. This isn’t a free speech issue. It is about the defense and legitimation of war crimes.
I would not hold your breath while waiting. On democracynow this morning, Sands mentioned that the Europeans are hoping & waiting for U.S. to do something first. I suggest we’ll all still be waiting when we’re in our coffins, or like Pinochet, they’ll die first.
Lipstick on a pig. Schumer seems to be square cornering them.
Up now - thanks, ET!
Christy writes:
Personally, I think the Bailiff from Cheech & Chong should get first whacks.
My $.02
Oh, I’m not holding my breath — but I wouldn’t mind if Yoo and Co. were holding theirs. For the rest of their lives, they will wonder when that tap on the shoulder will come . . .
“Yoo’s use of “in time of war” is so vague and so expansive that it translates to the President can do anything he wants by simply invoking his role as Commander in Chief “in a time of war”.”
_______
e.g., Bu’ush asserts that the Iraq AUMF gives him plenary CIC authority to remain in Iraq forever, absent any additional congressional legislative assent.
So what IS possible? To my mind, one issue is that they have produced a situation where “we’re all good Germans” now.
“square cornering”
I never heard that expression, what does it mean?
OMG, It looks like Sen Bunning (R-KY) is the one who is trying to put it to the witnesses. So far he’s the only one who seems to have any command of the obvious.
I’m not sure but there are a bunch of good links here: The United States and the International Criminal Court
Also a good Comparison of the Clinton and Bush Administration Positions on the International Criminal Court
Thanks - I will take a look at these.
hi christy and pups-
haven’t read everything yet, so, don’t know if this was posted by anyone
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....00879.html
froomkin from yesterday on the yoo memo. it’s slammin’ good. as usual.
Yesterday I sent my right-wing father information about the Yoo memo. My Dad was a Korean-era pilot with a kind of a high-school football cheerleader us against them view of patriotism. His was response to the shameful effort to justify torture was: “I don’t understand all the particulars of the arguments your making against this Yoo fella but don’t we have to protect our country?” To which I responded, “Are you saying it’s okay if we become the very kind of people we’re trying to protect ourselves against? Isn’t this the very kind of unspeakably unjustifiable behavior on the part of the Nazis that we fought WWII to stop?”
These comments left my Dad speechless for the first time in a long while. But in his own way, I know my Dad, however misguided, loves this country as much as I do. It’s just there where he identifies with the “tribe,” I see and identify with a broader perspective. My greatest frustration is with figuring out how progressive can get past talking only to each other, talking only to the choir. I felt like I scored a tiny victory with my Dad. I want to keep trying to figure how to be more effective in such interactions. I hope we can overpower and against marginalize the movement conservatives with their regressive ideas and policies with sheer numbers, but the only way I see making any lasting changes is to help well-meaning if ignorant people like me see a larger, more enlightened perspective on what our founding principles really stand for — not might makes right but, as the Arthur of legend may have said, right makes right, for ourselves, for our country, in terms of role not of superiority, but leadership in the world.
I contacted UC Berkeley (full disclosure: I attended Berkeley in the 80s, night school only)
Sherri at the main number informed me that complaints and/or comments about Mr Yoo and his conduct could be sent to:
Christopher Edley, Dean of the Law School, at cedley@law.berkeley.edu
Thanks for firedoglake.
i second (third?) et and ecahn wrt to philippe sands and democracy now!
and christy, if you haven’t already read sands’ “lawless world” i think you would appreciate, if not enjoy, it - as an antidote to reading yoo.
Hate to say square cornering is a sales technique to eliminate possible objections. Schumer laid out past present and future and got them to answer question directly. Its also a cross examination technique.
thanks!
Yes, we are not a party to the ICC or the Rome Statute. While theoretically a prosecution would be possible of a US national under it, this would be very difficult because the US Government could block it or apply sufficient political pressure to keep a prosecution from going forward. Even so the kinds of prosecutions would be very limited in nature and would not have much to do with what most of us think the real crimes are.
Surely that should read ’senior officers’?
(I’d hope the serious officers were the ones protesting this kind of legalized cr*p.)
Old news but worth remembering: Rumsfeld Flees France, Fearing Arrest
The fact that the picture of Yoo I see most often is one of a soft face and a cherubic smile is appropriate for the poster boy for the banality of evil.
Actually, eCAHNomics, he explicitly discussed that European prosecutors have specifically requested his case notes from the book for their own investigations - and stated “they are going to investigated”. (referring to European jurisdiction).
He went on to state that the Bushies’ deliberate attempt to create (fictional) immunity increasd their risk of international prosecution.
He also likened the Bushies’ apparent risk of prosecution “the tap on the shoulder” outside of the US to that Senator Pinochet faced when he was apprehended in London.
Sure doesn’t sound like the Europeans are waiting on the US.
I’m not holding my breath - it won’t happen in three minutes. But the investigations will happen in my lifetime.
I look forward to it.
DN puts up transcripts of each day’s show; the relevant portion is:
the woman in the background of the photo does not look to be entertained by mr rumsfeld.
One of the ways I try to approach it is this:
Is our country a piece of land, or is it the principles and ideas we stand for? And if we sacrifice the things we stand for to protect the piece of land, then is that really protecting the country?
Another reflection of this is the constant invocations by Bush and other Republicans that “the president’s highest duty is to protect the country.”
No it isn’t. No one denies that national defense is an important responsibility of the president, but the highest duty, the only one he swears to uphold in his oath of office is to protect and defend the Constitution. If he is willing to openly sacrifice that on the altar of national security, what won’t he cast aside?
(I don’t know yet if this is more successful than any other argument, but it seems worth a try with people who love their country, but have been badly misled by their tribe.)
The fact that the picture of Yoo I see most often is one of a soft face and a cherubic smile is appropriate for the poster boy for the banality of evil.
someone i work with went to school with him; and i’ve been thinking about how to appeal to his sense of patriotism by organizing some reunion type thingie in some accommodating locale that actually recognizes the rule of law… :-)
In the Horton comment cited, Scott also points out his belated realization that the organized bar has done too little. In responding to a Columbia Law student’s question about why Yoo and others continued to hold their licenses to practice law, he says he stopped mid-answer. The student was right: they shouldn’t.
The relevant state or DC bar associations should promptly review their licenses; on the basis of the Yoo Two memo alone, I think there are grounds immediately to take away Professor Yoo’s license to tell the public what the law is and how they should comply with it.
At least we won’t have to endure any Bush speeches from abroad once he leaves office.
Pity the weather in Berekely is so warm in May and September. Makes organizing demonstrations so difficult….
well, i guess providing a place for war criminals is one way for berkeley to dispel that ‘dirty fucking hippie’ tag.
Christy,
I’m sure you’ve seen the link from the ACLU describing yet another outrage from Yoo, in which he declares in a footnote of the March 2003 memo that, “the Fourth Amendment to have no application to domestic military operations.”
Just like that! The Fourth Amendment - Poof!!!
When is Yoo scheduled to appear before Congress???
(from article at talkingpointsmemo)
that the organized bar has done too little.
where the fuck has the aba been these past seven years while constitutional rights and international treaties have been eviscerated. perhaps they could take a lesson or twenty from their pakistani brethren.
Honestly, I don’t think we’ll have to endure many speeches from Bush at all once he leaves office. Republicans may still pay big bucks for closed-door events with him, but once we have a real president it’ll be obvious to everyone else what an embarrassment he is.
I mean, really, once he doesn’t have the power to steer no-bid contracts or send people to Gitmo, can you imagine anyone but hard-core wingnuts giving a rat’s ass about his opinion about anything?
Let us not forget another one of the playuh’s in the torture is OK crowd, the ’stupidest fucking guy on the planet’, Doug Feith.
From the same Vanity Fair piece as quoted by Think Progress;
Feith: Only ‘assholes’ are concerned about torture.»
In his new Vanity Fair piece on torture, international lawyer Phillippe Sands interviews former Pentagon official Doug Feith, who “played a major role in developing the interrogation policy for Guantanamo Bay.” Feith tells Sands that he shouldn’t be concerned with torture and America’s “moral authority,” because then he is “siding with the assholes“:
“This year I was really a player,” Feith said, thinking back on 2002 and relishing the memory. I asked him whether, in the end, he was at all concerned that the Geneva decision might have diminished America’s moral authority. He was not. “The problem with moral authority,” he said, was “people who should know better, like yourself, siding with the assholes, to put it crudely.”
I had a few thoughts about this at my place last night.
They aren’t fit for prime time though.
Sands was interviewed on Democracy Now this morning and repeatedly said that Addington was “driving” the whole thing, which points the finger right at Cheney.
I have been saying from the very beginning, the more exposed they are the more brazen they become
the fact that they ‘declassified’ this is stunning, it is an out right;
“we broke laws, we violated treaties, we are criminals, now what are YOU going to do about it?”
pelosi and congress are now accessories to the crime, they are obligated to prefer charges and if they do not they are as guilty and possibly more guilty
pelosi must prefer charges against yoo, she has no choice if she is to defend her own liability
Let’s see now..how hard is it to draw a line from John Yoo’s declaring the Fourth Amendment not applicable to domestic miliary operations…and FISA? Hmm? Let’s see now..I just take my little pencil and…there you go.
Horton also refers to an important point in the Philippe Sands essay in Vanity Fair. The Military Commissions Act 2006, in part, purported to give immunity to government lawyers when giving advice in support of the GWOT.
Sands points out that a necessary condition for international jurisdiction over alleged war criminals, like Augusto Pinochet, is evidence that their home states refuse or are incapable of prosecuting them. The MCA would be exhibit 1A in the argument that the United States cannot or will not prosecute Yoo and his colleagues; its legislature, at the behest of its president, has actively sought to shield him.
The assertion of jurisdiction over Professor Yoo in a war crimes proceeding is highly likely. Hoist on his own legal memorandum and what Cheney imagined would be another Get Out of Jail Free card. If I were he, I would visit my friends and relatives in South Korea and around the world promptly. I would not travel overseas, or even to Canada or Mexico, after January 20, 2009, when the Bush League administration loses its power to protect its own, the essential element keep Cheney’s clique together and silent. Yoo’s not the only passenger on that grey prison bus.
From Democracy Now this morning:
“JUAN GONZALEZ: And the role of Dick Cheney in all of this, in your research and interviews with the various principals that were involved?
PHILIPPE SANDS: Well, if he had a role—and it’s pretty sure or clear that he did, because he’s—the famous dunk in the water quotation, he’s got no objection to waterboarding, it seems, if it’s going to produce results under certain circumstances. His man was a guy called David Addington. I didn’t meet Addington; he doesn’t give interviews. I met his protege, Jim Haynes, with whom he worked very, very closely. Addington was plainly the man who was driving the issues forward. And one assumes he wasn’t doing it on his own behalf, but on behalf of his boss, who is the Vice President. Diane Beaver described to me, you know, that she was fearful of this man. He has a big powerful man, a booming voice, a big beard that he had. And he was obviously the man in charge. And it is plain from a lot of accounts that I’ve got from people who dealt with him directly, who were bullied by him, that he was the driving force.
He has no—I mean, frankly, it’s a combination of ideology and incompetence. These people were driven by an ideology of getting rid of rules that constrained the freedom to interrogate aggressively and incompetence, not thinking through whether or not these interrogations would have consequences for the United States. But most significantly of all—and this, in a sense, isn’t in the Vanity Fair piece but will come out in the book when it’s published in three weeks—they didn’t get anything out of this guy. It was a hopeless exercise. “
http://www.democracynow.org/20.....ippe_sands
The EFF had a piece yesterday: Administration Asserts No Fourth Amendment for Domestic Military Operations
and asks What Could It Mean for Warrantless Domestic Surveillance?
Exactly, Sara. I hadn’t read your post before posting mine. Thanks.
I do believe Addington is the real source for a lot of this.
Yoo andFeith are barely smart enough to open doors.
Willing accessories,looking for approval.
Worth repeating:
My take on the Yoo memo was that every member of the faculty of the Boalt School of Law should be forced to read it and then state in public why Yoo should be a member of that faculty. This isn’t a free speech issue. It is about the defense and legitimation of war crimes.
oooh Redshift - you’re in Spencer Tracy territory - and I’m not surprised
from Judgement at Nuremberg -
I love this too:
“And I describe in the Vanity Fair piece, in much more detail than in the book, the meetings I’ve had with a European judge and a European prosecutor, who basically said the fact that the US has created a domestic immunity significantly increases the prospects of international investigational prosecution, if any of these people set foot out of the country. And as the prosecutor said to me, that was a very stupid thing to do, to create an immunity.
JUAN GONZALEZ: So, in essence, your sense is that it’s a very real possibility that in the future some of the individuals involved could be exposed, at least in foreign countries, to prosecution for their acts?
PHILIPPE SANDS: I think it’s a real possibility. The judge and the prosecutor have asked me for all of my materials. They were not aware of the details. They were not aware of the immunity that had been granted. And I think what it does do, at the very least, is expose some of these individuals, including the lawyers who form part of what I’ve called the torture team, to the possibility of investigation, if they set foot—well, they’re going to be investigated irrespective of whether or not they set foot outside of the United States—the possibility of the tap on the shoulder, what happened to Senator Pinochet when he was in London, I think becomes a real risk in relation to some of the individuals at the top.”
Doesn’t domestic military operations render media subject to military oversight and message control?
Christy I posted this earlier today over at EW’s.
Here’s an article from the past leak of the Torture memo after the leak of the Abu Ghraib photos …with some dandy comments on Yoo…
http://michaeldorf.org/2007/03…..zette.html
The Montreal Gazette article cited in the post link is worth reading.
www.canada.com/montrealgazette.....7b432d1e79
It starts with this Yoo gem of a quote:
(my bold)
And that’s precisely the reason you DO NOT write an opinion like this Yoo! Just because it could happen (or as you suggest Christy “happened”) does not mean you write an opinion stating it’s okay and legalize it.
I think this quote from the Gazette confirms your thought on “after-the-fact” criminal defense posture.
I noticed that one too. There are all of these asides and offhand statements in the memo that casually take out whole chunks of the Constitution. It is sutpefying. There is also one in their about Executive Privilege.
Cool! I hadn’t remembered that quote, but it’s also an excellent formulation.
Somebody with more video skills than I should put together a YouTube montage with clips from various Bushies, followed by that scene.
Ding, Ding, Ding. What I said before. All they have to do is claim that all the information stealing they’ve been doing has been because we were “at war” and it was part of domestic military operations meant to protect the country. Anyone doubt that they are being watched, listened to, and recorded? Not me.
ot - more from democracy now! today… the BEST coverage of tweety’s interview of obama on bowling. juan gonzales uses it to introduce a piece on the 40th anniversary of the orangeburg massacre:
my fav sentence from froomkin’s column:
“And John Yoo was perhaps Addington’s most consistent and reliable tool.”
No surprise to readers here, Addington has been Cheney’s close adviser and legal hit man for two decades, ever since he argued that el Presidente Reagan was right to violate Congress’ legislative ban on aid to the Contras.
Addington has honed his legal knife sharper since then. Cheney’s ravenous filling of the power vacuum created by Bush’s “I’m just here to throw out baseballs and farm pork for the GOP” vision of the presidency — his 7am to 5pm schedule, with two hours for lunch and three for riding his bike — gave him scope to use it on the entire federal government.