Having read through and digested the Yoo memorandum that was recently declassified, the most striking feature of it — beyond its utter twisting of the law in a "might equals right" stomach churning justification tango — is that it reads like a document written in an after-the-fact criminal defense posture. Especially Part IV of the memorandum which spends pages outlining potential defenses and the mindset needed therefor should anyone be accused of committing war crimes or criminal acts.
That this flies in the face of the UCMJ and the Field Manual appears to have no meaning to Mr. Yoo. That it downgrades the precepts behind all the human rights law advances that the United States used to champion for the betterment of people in more repressive societies is just a minor inconvenience for Mr. Yoo and his "superiors." That we will be generations in the repairing of this, if ever? Not even mentioned.
Whither Donald Rumsfeld in this public discussion? And, for that matter, Dick Cheney, in all of this minion kabuki? Which makes this passage from the Vanity Fair piece on the torture policy drafting all the more infuriating:
…The first was a November 2002 “action memo” written by William J. (Jim) Haynes II, the general counsel of the U.S. Department of Defense, to his boss, Donald Rumsfeld; the document is sometimes referred to as the Haynes Memo. Haynes recommended that Rumsfeld give “blanket approval” to 15 out of 18 proposed techniques of aggressive interrogation. Rumsfeld duly did so, on December 2, 2002, signing his name firmly next to the word “Approved.” Under his signature he also scrawled a few words that refer to the length of time a detainee can be forced to stand during interrogation: “I stand for 8–10 hours a day. Why is standing limited to 4 hours?”
The second document on the table listed the 18 proposed techniques of interrogation, all of which went against long-standing U.S. military practice as presented in the Army Field Manual. The 15 approved techniques included certain forms of physical contact and also techniques intended to humiliate and to impose sensory deprivation. They permitted the use of stress positions, isolation, hooding, 20-hour interrogations, and nudity. Haynes and Rumsfeld explicitly did not rule out the future use of three other techniques, one of which was waterboarding, the application of a wet towel and water to induce the perception of drowning.
Yoo sure as hell wasn’t writing this memorandum in a vacuum and William Haynes wasn’t asking for it in one either. Rummy and Dick wanted cover, and they were going to get it in the form of a memo from OLC written by a loyal and willing scribe that bought into their dictatorial unilateral executive ravings, and that was binding on the military — and which overrode the vociferous objections from the JAG corps.
And, as Scott Horton details, it was a perversion of the role and the mission of the OLC to use it in that manner:
The OLC was not being asked in a detached way to render its best professional judgment about a question. It was being used as a power redoubt controlled by the Neocon clique to reinforce legally indefensible positions which fellow Neocons (Haynes, Feith and Cambone) had locked themselves into. It was a pure powerplay. And it is fundamentally corrupt, in particular a crude debasing of the role of OLC.
Which serves as both a warning and a clarion call on the need for detailed oversight on who, ultimately, issued these marching orders — and for a holding to account of those involved. As Froomkin highlighted from yesterday’s WaPo piece on the memo:
Largely because of Yoo’s memo, however, a Pentagon working group in April 2003 endorsed the continued use of extremely aggressive tactics. The top lawyers for each military service, who were largely excluded from the group, did not receive a final copy of Yoo’s March memo and did not know about the group’s final report for more than a year, officials said.
Thomas J. Romig, who was then the Army’s judge advocate general, said yesterday after reading the memo that it appears to argue there are no rules in a time of war, a concept Romig found "downright offensive."
It certainly is offensive. Scott Horton walks us all through the paces on the internal dynamics in sometimes graphic detail, and ends with this:
When the scandal erupted, Rumsfeld and his crew turned to a standard “soldiers are cannon fodder” response–let’s scapegoat some grunts, and then it’ll all die out, they reasoned. And some two dozen low-level soldiers were court-martialed. Serious officers, and more to the point, the political hacks who crafted the torture system and hammered it through faced no accountability in any form. They depart with a big party and go off to take in six-figure salaries as oil company executives, it seems. The heroic figures in uniform who stood against the criminality are intimidated, hounded, denied promotions, forced out of the service. It’s all like some dark parallel universe–not the America I thought I grew up in.
Silence will buy us a continuation of this corruption of our nation. But isn’t it worth raising your voice and articulating your anger to get our country back?
Amen. To Scott’s list of people who ought to have their asses hauled publicly before Congress to answer questions, I’d add David Addington and Scooter Libby to the list, along with Rummy — the consigliere’s to Dick Cheney’s grand vision of Executive Fiat ought to answer for their role in promoting this twisted version of America. And I say give Sen. Whitehouse and Sen. Feingold the first whacks at all of them.
Related posts:
- McChrystal: Detainee Abuse Initially Informed by Rumsfeld Memo
- Rumsfeld Blames General Counsel Jim Haynes for Torture Policy
- Memo to OK Domestic Use of Military Also Authorized Surveillance
- Why Can’t CIA Handle the Same Level of Oversight the Military Gets?
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Bradley Graham, By His Own Rules: The Ambitions, Successes and Ultimate Failures of Donald Rumsfeld






Spotlight







Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

“So?“
is there any other avenue of oversight besides congress? to say they have been woefully inadequate to the task is, imo, being generous. i want more options…. but i’m having trouble seeing where we might find them.
Delightful photo choice to accompany this kabuki, Christy.
If only Rummy had stuck with the pencil mustache routine…
And, on the basis of Yoo’s memo, every torturer who saw it can use the good-faith variant of the Nuremberg defense.
Per Section 1004 of John McCain’s Detainee Treatment Act (DTA) of 2005, a torturer can plead that he “did not know that the practices were unlawful and a person of ordinary sense and understanding would not know the practices were unlawful [based on] good faith reliance on advice of counsel”:
The seizure of power by a band of criminals who can only be described as American Nazi’s is breathtaking. The insiders discovered it right away, as Paul O’Neil’s book and recent remarks indicate. The rest of us had to find out the hard way. Cheney and his gang were so far off the scale that not even the most paranoid among us could have imagined they would move this far so fast.
All this keeps me thinking how important it is to block immunity for the telecoms. That is the only legal avenue we seem to have left to prosecute these people. I am aware that the Yoo stuff is not involved in FISA, but the whole operation was a package. Not giving legislative immunity to the companies makes it possible to give them some later in return for incriminating informtion on the principals, and since one thing leads to another, the whole skein of lies and subversion will come unraveled.
That’s why Bush is fighting it so hard. They will go to the wall on this one.
May it get them — and him — the same result as those who employed that defense half a century ago.
I’m having the same problem, short of a grand jury investigation or something along those lines. And I don’t see something like that happening any time soon, either…am looking at several things, none of which seem feasible. Very frustrating, to say the least.
I strongly urge everyone to read Scott Horton’s article that Christy so thoughtfully brought to us, and to circulate it far and wide. [I just did, to my “political pals” mailing list. I think I’ll head over to Spotlight next.]
The information is really chilling, and the reference to Kafka all too apt.
There are SO many things to be outraged over with this administration, to say nothing of the day-to-day events of the campaign, but this goes to bedrock American values, and displays the true dark-heartedness of Cheney & his minions.
Phillip Sand was on democracynow this morning and Scott Horton was interviewed by Scott Horton on this subject.
http://antiwar.com/radio/2008/…..-horton-8/
The Geneva Convention, reduced to swiss cheese by the U.S.:
In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:
1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated
humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.inhumanely.To this end the following acts are and shall remain
prohibitedallowed at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
I will not rest until these war criminals are brought to justice and some of our shame acknowledged and brought to light. In the words of William Lloyd Garrison:
“I will be as harsh as truth, and uncompromising as justice… I am in earnest, I will not equivocate, I will not excuse, I will not retreat a single inch, and I will be heard.”
Thanks to FDL for giving me the courage to speak out.
I think the best way to handle this is for the next admin to sign up to the Hague courts. It is certainly beyond US law to punish BushCo, heck for all they’ve ordered in Iraq the most we can do is impeach. And that’s off the table.
If we go with the Hague, we don’t need government cooperation to file charges against BushCo.
Boxturtle (Cheney doing the perp walk is still a dream of mine)
What peterr said.
And Christy, thanks for this superb post about monstrous people and their hideous acts against other human beings, the Constitution, and international law.
Ultimately the Court has to reassert its jurisdiction, as well as the congress. Moreover, activists for justice simply must make the case more effectively to the general public on why “trust us” cannot work. The old maxim “power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely” is borne out dispositively by [1] the entirety of human political history and [1] mountains of 20th century clinical evidence, e.g., that which began with psych research such as the Milgram and Zimbardo studies.
As a purely utilitarian/empirical matter, people overall have to become more aware of the relative risk-cost/benefit assessment, beyond “prissy” constitutional abstractions. Yes, there’s always a risk that oversight begets gratuitous and possibly harmful disclosure of necessary secrets, but acceding to carte blanche authority to violate the constitution without consequence carries a far greater risk, both to our democracy in the aggregate and to every law-abiding citizen.
I’m still a true believer that We The People need to get these war criminals charged and tried in American courts.
Once again a great post. Very informative bloody frightening.
Here I was hoping that you would have the answer
Laura Rozen has up an interesting comment. She makes the case that so much of this is “defense brief” that it could indeed come back and sting the writers, and those who were witting to the defensive cover efforts. Some years back she interviewed EU Judges engaged in efforts regarding war crimes, and was apparently told the act most likely to result in arrest, indictment, and all — was all the effort to create a defense brief cover. See her post yesterday evening… she is suggesting some mentioned in this story might want to be careful about future foreign travel, and apparently she sat in the gallery at the House of Lords when Pinochet issues were debated, and she links the legal arguments with the possibility of future events. In particular, Laura suggests efforts to put things outside the jurisdiction of US courts is a bell ringer for the jurisdiction of international courts, just as the carefully crafted agreement between Pinochet and his successors that gave the Junta immunity from prosecution in Chile, was the basis for the Law Lord’s decision to proceed under British Law.
In otherwords, they may have been too clever by half.
I can’t recommend the Philippe Sands interview on Democracy Now enough!
I’m surprised at the outrage here, and also the comments about needing to do something. There’s really nothing new, except for details of what we knew already. Now details are important, but they are not revelatory. As for doing something, it’s pretty obvious that’s not going to happen.
I’d love to, but I can’t for the life of me figure out HOW! Bush can’t be touched (other than impeachment) for offical acts, and he’s going to get carpel tunnel from all the pardons he’s going to be signing.
I’m afraid that BushCo is exactly the sort of thing that the World Court was set up to handle. They’re certainly criminals, but they’re beyond the reach of US law.
Boxturtle (I’m open to suggestions)
I still hold out at least a faint hope for the International Criminal Court. Here’s a comment I put up yesterday on Glenn’s post about Yoo:
I have since been made aware that there is one more threshold for the ICC and that relates to the US being first in line to prosecute, but there likely is a way around that one based on the clear efforts of the Bush regime to circumvent international treaties and conventions.
This is all the more reason to work to get a progressive into the White House. The only way we’re going to see a lot of the worst offenses of this administration truly purged from the Executive Branch standard operating procedure is to have the Supremes declare those activities unconstitutional.
And the only way that happens is if we have a SCOTUS that isn’t dominated by the likes of Scalia and Thomas.
Don’t forget a strong progressive majority in congress that will actually function as a check on executive overreach.
It’s really pathetic when we have to rely on foreign governments to save us from ourselves.
Let’s hope they really do it, though. Because lord knows we need saving…
What is the procedure for bringing a case before the ICC? Lots of people have talked about this as a way to bring some of these people to justice, But I’m not sure what is actually involved – or how feasible it is.
Marty Lederman makes this same point, quoting that Phillipe Sands piece from Vanity Fair to which Christy links above. Says Sands,
I’m guessing Yoo is done with his foreign traveling for the foreseeable future.
OT
Just came back from errands & switched on “Bear” hearing. Whadda buncha junk. “Who could have known?” Ds are just as bad as Rs. Schumer seems to be completely taken in by his donors, I wonder why. NOT.
BoxTurtle et al
No tinfoil hat required to draw a straight line between the Bush ‘ranch’ in Paraguay and the current line of discussion.
We have the opportunity this year. It may be gone for the rest of our lifetimes. Millions of new people have become politicized and are drawn to the campaigns. People are frustrated, and worried about the future of this nation. They need to become more acutely aware of the very real dangers of things like the “unfettered unitary executive” and warrantless, no-independent-oversight surveillance.
Reading the Yoo memo, I found the thinking stupid, specious, muddled, and contradictory. The absence of any direct reference to Youngstown was pointed out yesterday. This is because for Yoo the power of the President is always at its maximum and that of the Congress, the Constitution, and the laws are always at a minimum. Yes, Yoo qualifies this power with “in a time of war” but Yoo’s use of “in time of war” is so vague and so expansive that it translates to the President can do anything he wants by simply invoking his role as Commander in Chief “in a time of war”.
Yoo then carves out a legal black hole in which to dump detainees and where the President’s power has no limit. On the one hand, he argues they are not covered by Consitutional protections or criminal statutes. This is especially bizarre because this is exactly how the 1993 bombers of the World Trade Center were handled. He then goes on to say that al Qaeda and Taliban are not covered by the Geneva conventions because he defines them as unlawful combatants. These Yoo states can be treated however the US pleases, i.e. because they have no rights. This too has its bizarre aspect. In the Afghanistan campaign we had numerous tribal allies, all of whom would also qualify as unlawful combatants. Now in fact we treated them as lawful combatants and if we treated them as lawful then we should have treated their opponents as lawful as well.
For the rest, Yoo trots out the Constitutional, legal, and treaty requirements which might apply. Each and everyone is presented often in detail and then dismissed with some vast and specious injunction. Maim someone while interrogating them? No problem. If you say, “Well, golly, geez whiz, I didn’t know that beating him with a baseball bat would hurt him”, you are off the hook.
My take on the Yoo memo was that every member of the faculty of the Boalt School of Law should be forced to read it and then state in public why Yoo should be a member of that faculty. This isn’t a free speech issue. It is about the defense and legitimation of war crimes.
I would not hold your breath while waiting. On democracynow this morning, Sands mentioned that the Europeans are hoping & waiting for U.S. to do something first. I suggest we’ll all still be waiting when we’re in our coffins, or like Pinochet, they’ll die first.
Lipstick on a pig. Schumer seems to be square cornering them.
Up now – thanks, ET!
Christy writes:
Personally, I think the Bailiff from Cheech & Chong should get first whacks.
My $.02
Oh, I’m not holding my breath — but I wouldn’t mind if Yoo and Co. were holding theirs. For the rest of their lives, they will wonder when that tap on the shoulder will come . . .
“Yoo’s use of “in time of war” is so vague and so expansive that it translates to the President can do anything he wants by simply invoking his role as Commander in Chief “in a time of war”.”
_______
e.g., Bu’ush asserts that the Iraq AUMF gives him plenary CIC authority to remain in Iraq forever, absent any additional congressional legislative assent.
So what IS possible? To my mind, one issue is that they have produced a situation where “we’re all good Germans” now.
“square cornering”
I never heard that expression, what does it mean?
OMG, It looks like Sen Bunning (R-KY) is the one who is trying to put it to the witnesses. So far he’s the only one who seems to have any command of the obvious.
I’m not sure but there are a bunch of good links here: The United States and the International Criminal Court
Also a good Comparison of the Clinton and Bush Administration Positions on the International Criminal Court
Thanks – I will take a look at these.
hi christy and pups-
haven’t read everything yet, so, don’t know if this was posted by anyone
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00879.html
froomkin from yesterday on the yoo memo. it’s slammin’ good. as usual.
Yesterday I sent my right-wing father information about the Yoo memo. My Dad was a Korean-era pilot with a kind of a high-school football cheerleader us against them view of patriotism. His was response to the shameful effort to justify torture was: “I don’t understand all the particulars of the arguments your making against this Yoo fella but don’t we have to protect our country?” To which I responded, “Are you saying it’s okay if we become the very kind of people we’re trying to protect ourselves against? Isn’t this the very kind of unspeakably unjustifiable behavior on the part of the Nazis that we fought WWII to stop?”
These comments left my Dad speechless for the first time in a long while. But in his own way, I know my Dad, however misguided, loves this country as much as I do. It’s just there where he identifies with the “tribe,” I see and identify with a broader perspective. My greatest frustration is with figuring out how progressive can get past talking only to each other, talking only to the choir. I felt like I scored a tiny victory with my Dad. I want to keep trying to figure how to be more effective in such interactions. I hope we can overpower and against marginalize the movement conservatives with their regressive ideas and policies with sheer numbers, but the only way I see making any lasting changes is to help well-meaning if ignorant people like me see a larger, more enlightened perspective on what our founding principles really stand for — not might makes right but, as the Arthur of legend may have said, right makes right, for ourselves, for our country, in terms of role not of superiority, but leadership in the world.
I contacted UC Berkeley (full disclosure: I attended Berkeley in the 80s, night school only)
Sherri at the main number informed me that complaints and/or comments about Mr Yoo and his conduct could be sent to:
Christopher Edley, Dean of the Law School, at cedley@law.berkeley.edu
Thanks for firedoglake.
i second (third?) et and ecahn wrt to philippe sands and democracy now!
and christy, if you haven’t already read sands’ “lawless world” i think you would appreciate, if not enjoy, it – as an antidote to reading yoo.
Hate to say square cornering is a sales technique to eliminate possible objections. Schumer laid out past present and future and got them to answer question directly. Its also a cross examination technique.
thanks!
Yes, we are not a party to the ICC or the Rome Statute. While theoretically a prosecution would be possible of a US national under it, this would be very difficult because the US Government could block it or apply sufficient political pressure to keep a prosecution from going forward. Even so the kinds of prosecutions would be very limited in nature and would not have much to do with what most of us think the real crimes are.
Surely that should read ’senior officers’?
(I’d hope the serious officers were the ones protesting this kind of legalized cr*p.)
Old news but worth remembering: Rumsfeld Flees France, Fearing Arrest
The fact that the picture of Yoo I see most often is one of a soft face and a cherubic smile is appropriate for the poster boy for the banality of evil.
Actually, eCAHNomics, he explicitly discussed that European prosecutors have specifically requested his case notes from the book for their own investigations – and stated “they are going to investigated”. (referring to European jurisdiction).
He went on to state that the Bushies’ deliberate attempt to create (fictional) immunity increasd their risk of international prosecution.
He also likened the Bushies’ apparent risk of prosecution “the tap on the shoulder” outside of the US to that Senator Pinochet faced when he was apprehended in London.
Sure doesn’t sound like the Europeans are waiting on the US.
I’m not holding my breath – it won’t happen in three minutes. But the investigations will happen in my lifetime.
I look forward to it.
DN puts up transcripts of each day’s show; the relevant portion is:
the woman in the background of the photo does not look to be entertained by mr rumsfeld.
One of the ways I try to approach it is this:
Is our country a piece of land, or is it the principles and ideas we stand for? And if we sacrifice the things we stand for to protect the piece of land, then is that really protecting the country?
Another reflection of this is the constant invocations by Bush and other Republicans that “the president’s highest duty is to protect the country.”
No it isn’t. No one denies that national defense is an important responsibility of the president, but the highest duty, the only one he swears to uphold in his oath of office is to protect and defend the Constitution. If he is willing to openly sacrifice that on the altar of national security, what won’t he cast aside?
(I don’t know yet if this is more successful than any other argument, but it seems worth a try with people who love their country, but have been badly misled by their tribe.)
The fact that the picture of Yoo I see most often is one of a soft face and a cherubic smile is appropriate for the poster boy for the banality of evil.
someone i work with went to school with him; and i’ve been thinking about how to appeal to his sense of patriotism by organizing some reunion type thingie in some accommodating locale that actually recognizes the rule of law… :-)
In the Horton comment cited, Scott also points out his belated realization that the organized bar has done too little. In responding to a Columbia Law student’s question about why Yoo and others continued to hold their licenses to practice law, he says he stopped mid-answer. The student was right: they shouldn’t.
The relevant state or DC bar associations should promptly review their licenses; on the basis of the Yoo Two memo alone, I think there are grounds immediately to take away Professor Yoo’s license to tell the public what the law is and how they should comply with it.
At least we won’t have to endure any Bush speeches from abroad once he leaves office.
Pity the weather in Berekely is so warm in May and September. Makes organizing demonstrations so difficult….
well, i guess providing a place for war criminals is one way for berkeley to dispel that ‘dirty fucking hippie’ tag.
Christy,
I’m sure you’ve seen the link from the ACLU describing yet another outrage from Yoo, in which he declares in a footnote of the March 2003 memo that, “the Fourth Amendment to have no application to domestic military operations.”
Just like that! The Fourth Amendment – Poof!!!
When is Yoo scheduled to appear before Congress???
(from article at talkingpointsmemo)
that the organized bar has done too little.
where the fuck has the aba been these past seven years while constitutional rights and international treaties have been eviscerated. perhaps they could take a lesson or twenty from their pakistani brethren.
Honestly, I don’t think we’ll have to endure many speeches from Bush at all once he leaves office. Republicans may still pay big bucks for closed-door events with him, but once we have a real president it’ll be obvious to everyone else what an embarrassment he is.
I mean, really, once he doesn’t have the power to steer no-bid contracts or send people to Gitmo, can you imagine anyone but hard-core wingnuts giving a rat’s ass about his opinion about anything?
Let us not forget another one of the playuh’s in the torture is OK crowd, the ’stupidest fucking guy on the planet’, Doug Feith.
From the same Vanity Fair piece as quoted by Think Progress;
Feith: Only ‘assholes’ are concerned about torture.»
In his new Vanity Fair piece on torture, international lawyer Phillippe Sands interviews former Pentagon official Doug Feith, who “played a major role in developing the interrogation policy for Guantanamo Bay.” Feith tells Sands that he shouldn’t be concerned with torture and America’s “moral authority,” because then he is “siding with the assholes“:
“This year I was really a player,” Feith said, thinking back on 2002 and relishing the memory. I asked him whether, in the end, he was at all concerned that the Geneva decision might have diminished America’s moral authority. He was not. “The problem with moral authority,” he said, was “people who should know better, like yourself, siding with the assholes, to put it crudely.”
I had a few thoughts about this at my place last night.
They aren’t fit for prime time though.
Sands was interviewed on Democracy Now this morning and repeatedly said that Addington was “driving” the whole thing, which points the finger right at Cheney.
I have been saying from the very beginning, the more exposed they are the more brazen they become
the fact that they ‘declassified’ this is stunning, it is an out right;
“we broke laws, we violated treaties, we are criminals, now what are YOU going to do about it?”
pelosi and congress are now accessories to the crime, they are obligated to prefer charges and if they do not they are as guilty and possibly more guilty
pelosi must prefer charges against yoo, she has no choice if she is to defend her own liability
Let’s see now..how hard is it to draw a line from John Yoo’s declaring the Fourth Amendment not applicable to domestic miliary operations…and FISA? Hmm? Let’s see now..I just take my little pencil and…there you go.
Horton also refers to an important point in the Philippe Sands essay in Vanity Fair. The Military Commissions Act 2006, in part, purported to give immunity to government lawyers when giving advice in support of the GWOT.
Sands points out that a necessary condition for international jurisdiction over alleged war criminals, like Augusto Pinochet, is evidence that their home states refuse or are incapable of prosecuting them. The MCA would be exhibit 1A in the argument that the United States cannot or will not prosecute Yoo and his colleagues; its legislature, at the behest of its president, has actively sought to shield him.
The assertion of jurisdiction over Professor Yoo in a war crimes proceeding is highly likely. Hoist on his own legal memorandum and what Cheney imagined would be another Get Out of Jail Free card. If I were he, I would visit my friends and relatives in South Korea and around the world promptly. I would not travel overseas, or even to Canada or Mexico, after January 20, 2009, when the Bush League administration loses its power to protect its own, the essential element keep Cheney’s clique together and silent. Yoo’s not the only passenger on that grey prison bus.
From Democracy Now this morning:
“JUAN GONZALEZ: And the role of Dick Cheney in all of this, in your research and interviews with the various principals that were involved?
PHILIPPE SANDS: Well, if he had a role—and it’s pretty sure or clear that he did, because he’s—the famous dunk in the water quotation, he’s got no objection to waterboarding, it seems, if it’s going to produce results under certain circumstances. His man was a guy called David Addington. I didn’t meet Addington; he doesn’t give interviews. I met his protege, Jim Haynes, with whom he worked very, very closely. Addington was plainly the man who was driving the issues forward. And one assumes he wasn’t doing it on his own behalf, but on behalf of his boss, who is the Vice President. Diane Beaver described to me, you know, that she was fearful of this man. He has a big powerful man, a booming voice, a big beard that he had. And he was obviously the man in charge. And it is plain from a lot of accounts that I’ve got from people who dealt with him directly, who were bullied by him, that he was the driving force.
He has no—I mean, frankly, it’s a combination of ideology and incompetence. These people were driven by an ideology of getting rid of rules that constrained the freedom to interrogate aggressively and incompetence, not thinking through whether or not these interrogations would have consequences for the United States. But most significantly of all—and this, in a sense, isn’t in the Vanity Fair piece but will come out in the book when it’s published in three weeks—they didn’t get anything out of this guy. It was a hopeless exercise. “
http://www.democracynow.org/20…..ippe_sands
The EFF had a piece yesterday: Administration Asserts No Fourth Amendment for Domestic Military Operations
and asks What Could It Mean for Warrantless Domestic Surveillance?
Exactly, Sara. I hadn’t read your post before posting mine. Thanks.
I do believe Addington is the real source for a lot of this.
Yoo andFeith are barely smart enough to open doors.
Willing accessories,looking for approval.
Worth repeating:
My take on the Yoo memo was that every member of the faculty of the Boalt School of Law should be forced to read it and then state in public why Yoo should be a member of that faculty. This isn’t a free speech issue. It is about the defense and legitimation of war crimes.
oooh Redshift – you’re in Spencer Tracy territory – and I’m not surprised
from Judgement at Nuremberg -
I love this too:
“And I describe in the Vanity Fair piece, in much more detail than in the book, the meetings I’ve had with a European judge and a European prosecutor, who basically said the fact that the US has created a domestic immunity significantly increases the prospects of international investigational prosecution, if any of these people set foot out of the country. And as the prosecutor said to me, that was a very stupid thing to do, to create an immunity.
JUAN GONZALEZ: So, in essence, your sense is that it’s a very real possibility that in the future some of the individuals involved could be exposed, at least in foreign countries, to prosecution for their acts?
PHILIPPE SANDS: I think it’s a real possibility. The judge and the prosecutor have asked me for all of my materials. They were not aware of the details. They were not aware of the immunity that had been granted. And I think what it does do, at the very least, is expose some of these individuals, including the lawyers who form part of what I’ve called the torture team, to the possibility of investigation, if they set foot—well, they’re going to be investigated irrespective of whether or not they set foot outside of the United States—the possibility of the tap on the shoulder, what happened to Senator Pinochet when he was in London, I think becomes a real risk in relation to some of the individuals at the top.”
Doesn’t domestic military operations render media subject to military oversight and message control?
Christy I posted this earlier today over at EW’s.
Here’s an article from the past leak of the Torture memo after the leak of the Abu Ghraib photos …with some dandy comments on Yoo…
http://michaeldorf.org/2007/03…..zette.html
The Montreal Gazette article cited in the post link is worth reading.
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette…..7b432d1e79
It starts with this Yoo gem of a quote:
(my bold)
And that’s precisely the reason you DO NOT write an opinion like this Yoo! Just because it could happen (or as you suggest Christy “happened”) does not mean you write an opinion stating it’s okay and legalize it.
I think this quote from the Gazette confirms your thought on “after-the-fact” criminal defense posture.
I noticed that one too. There are all of these asides and offhand statements in the memo that casually take out whole chunks of the Constitution. It is sutpefying. There is also one in their about Executive Privilege.
Cool! I hadn’t remembered that quote, but it’s also an excellent formulation.
Somebody with more video skills than I should put together a YouTube montage with clips from various Bushies, followed by that scene.
Ding, Ding, Ding. What I said before. All they have to do is claim that all the information stealing they’ve been doing has been because we were “at war” and it was part of domestic military operations meant to protect the country. Anyone doubt that they are being watched, listened to, and recorded? Not me.
ot – more from democracy now! today… the BEST coverage of tweety’s interview of obama on bowling. juan gonzales uses it to introduce a piece on the 40th anniversary of the orangeburg massacre:
my fav sentence from froomkin’s column:
“And John Yoo was perhaps Addington’s most consistent and reliable tool.”
No surprise to readers here, Addington has been Cheney’s close adviser and legal hit man for two decades, ever since he argued that el Presidente Reagan was right to violate Congress’ legislative ban on aid to the Contras.
Addington has honed his legal knife sharper since then. Cheney’s ravenous filling of the power vacuum created by Bush’s “I’m just here to throw out baseballs and farm pork for the GOP” vision of the presidency — his 7am to 5pm schedule, with two hours for lunch and three for riding his bike — gave him scope to use it on the entire federal government.
The information is out there, everybody knows who did what now and why.
I am not going to hold my breath however that a damn thing will be done to not only stop what they are doing, but actually investigate and prosecute a single one of these people.
You will get the same damn excuses as ya got for impeachment not being on the table.
Good point. Yoo is very smart; he willingly gave advice to cover up things most government lawyers would consider crimes, and that worse crimes would follow his advice. He was issuing a coded game plan to these players on how to defend themselves against accusations he knew would follow disclosure of their conduct.
That’s why he should lose his license to practice law, and why Berkeley should add probable war crimes to the, “screwing the chancellor’s daughter or lying to a grand jury” as the proverbial sole justifications for firing a tenured faculty member. That’s not “putting him jail before trial or conviction”; it’s recognizing the logical and probable consequences of his intentional conduct as a senior government official.
earl, I am so happy to hear that law student’s question – and Scott Horton’s honesty re his belated realization.
As bad as medicine can be in pursuing some docs’ ethical violations, the fact that Yoo has his Bar card – and the fact attorneys aren’t sitting en masse outside the Federal courthouse demanding the impeachment of the “jurist” who (as US Atty) railroaded Siegelman – is something I hope to see a permannent chapter in the annals of American Legal Ethics: The Abdication Years.
What does it say about the American legal profession’s operant culture normsthat the person who asked about Yoo’s Bar card was a law student? What does it say that even Scott Horton found the idea novel?
How did preservation of access to wealth via continued membership in the Bar become so normative that Addington, Yoo, et al weren’t disbarred years ago? Not enough torture deaths? Or pervasive complicity by those too weak or greedy to risk their own prosperous legal careers by speaking out?
I know there are ethical attorneys – Christy, LHP, and many others who visit the Lake are shining examples (including you and Hugh, if you are both attorneys).
Yet the vast bulk of the profession’s abject failure to confront war crimes in every public venue remaining in our democracy including civil disobedience – not merely ABA conventions and the like – speaks volumes about the culture of depravity among the profession as a whole.
When ABA lawyers and leaders in the profession and every attorney who practices before the Federal Bench sit down and block the doorways of the Federal judges and officials complicit in war crimes, active contempt for our Constitution, and illegal prosecutions – then their belated action will at least provide a footnote in contrast to these years of the legal profession’s disgraceful public passivity.
I was born in 1960, and grew up learning that the Good Germans’ silence was assent for the Nazis.
In this century, the Good American attorneys’ silence was – and is – assent for the Bush Reich. May all those who kept silent in public be held accountable for their lack of courage and their effective complicity.
May all who now have Bar cards and small children hear those adolescent children ask: Mom? Dad? What did you do to fight the Bushies?
Every night at the dinner table – for years. Every family vacation. Every time grown-up kids are home on break from professional school.
So mote it be.
Once again, folks like Christy and LHP and Scott are the exceptions: the exceptions that prove the rule.
Or misrule.
Thanks for this, and to cbl2 in #73. These are helpful suggestions. I’m kicking around trying to write a book about my interactions with my Dad on these and related matters. The title I’m working with is The King and I: A Memoir of Longing for Transformation of Patriarchy. For me, patriarchy is a dysfunctional system regardless of who is dominating and distorting it for their own needs. And the only way I sense we can create a new, healthier modality is to make an effective case by enlisting people into more viable perspectives, policies, and actions.
From volokh:
Professor John Yoo, discussing President Bill Clinton. Source: John C. Yoo, The Imperial President Abroad, in Roger Pilon, ed., The Rule of Law in the Wake of Clinton 159 (2000).
look at this savage cretin -
in responding to connections btw his screed and Abu Graib -
this is an ‘error’
I agree.
Let’s face it, the united States have been co-opted by a bunch of rich and powerful criminals. They are neocons, corporations, conservatives, elected officials from the senate and congress and a majority of the Supreme Court.
Elected officials will not stop this administration, they were either in the plot, or being blackmailed into submission.
The DOJ is essentially led by criminals, all of the USA’s have been installed by the administration, and certainly not for their honesty.
The supreme court installed Bush in 2000, and they’ll do the same for flyboy if push comes to shove.
The media answers to their corporate masters, pushing an insane ex flyboy into the next presidency.
And the public will not rise against these monsters who are raping them.
You’re all screwed to the wall, and point to the parade of criminals, shaking your head in disapproval.
Well, I’m sorry to say that we’re all getting what we deserve.
The coup is succesfull.
The U.S. are but a figment of your imagination…
and Selise.
I hope there is an answer out there. My 15-year-old son has been asking me, “What can we as citizens do to make sure we do not end up like the German citizens of WWII who did not support Hitler but did not do anything either?”
Keep in mind this young man had a great-grandmother who had a great sense of justice and stood up to Hitler as a youth…
I would hope great legal minds out there can come up with a “plan” to address this somehow…
ECahn,
Why cannot we the unwashed see the collateral that the Fed’s have been dancing around all day? Deliberate obscufation or are we too STUPID to understand?
Comment in #44, please change Woo to Yoo.
I apologize for the error.
Remember that in the case of Germany, the majority of the public supported Hitler in the way even greater than the support for Bush in the early 2000’s…that is absolutely not the case anymore. They have and are being exposed on a daily basis.
For that reason, and the fact that although they have all of these memos and proclamations of power, it can be taken away in a flash, they are not nearly as powerful as they were or thought that they would be. I think the coup has failed. If they try to pull a fast one with the elections, it won’t fly.
The best they can hope for is to not be prosecuted or impeached. As with all of their other incompetent actions, they messed up their own coup. JMHO
You’re almost talking in Friedman units, let’s wait another six months. They can’t conceivably pull one more egregious action…
They will do it, they’ve proven it at every fucking turn, on a daily basis. They will win at all costs.
The coup is succeeding.
I want them all tried for treason today! But, reality is that nobody will do a damn thing about these people. There is huge opposition to them nationally, which is what I was referring to. We are a huge nation, and 75% of the people oppose them.
This is a great KagroX diary about the 4th Amendment footnote and more:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..741/489455
Unless do-nothing Nancy Pelosi and limp-dick Harry Reid choose to press this issue now when it’s literally too late, this gang of Constitution-subverting criminals will walk away scot-free with nary a consequence to follow them.
For years all us DFH’s were clamoring for an impeachment investigation but those fucking moronic “bipartisan” idiots decided that maintaining personal power and privilege was far more important than the good of the Republic.
Neither of the Democratic candidates, Obama nor HRC have indicated whether or not following up on prosecution for these criminals (yes, I say criminals) is on their agenda because if either of them gets elected then they will start running for their second term approximately the time the words “So help me god” leave their mouths on the inaugural platform.
This John Yoo memo disgusts me beyond belief. I mourn for my country, the America that produced the “Greatest Generation” also produced a generation of Americans afraid of military service and will be remembered as most likely to wet their beds at the name “al qaeda”.
Factually incorrect.
Even under what now seem to be the rosy economic times of 1999, enough Americans and Internationals (including a whole lot of great Canadians) came into the streets to stop the multinationals and their US “elected servants” – including President Stain Clinton – from furher extending WTO rule over the planet.
You know how many that took?
About 60,000.
The next April an even smaller group broke the public image and public power of the IMF/WB. ANd we didn’t even have to shut down the meetings to do it.
As for “we’re all getting what we deserve” – well, I trust that’s a figure of speech, adn I take it on faith you’ve been doing your part, having read your many useful contributins here.
But no – the good people I know in EarthFirst! and Rainforest Action Network and Greenpeace and Ruckus have been working for years – sometimes decades – to force new awareness throug the megacorp media. As have folks like Jane and Christy. Fortunately for the FDL team, none of us have died doing it. Unfortuantely, for the EarthFirst!ers, some have – alog with many others, I was at the site of David “Gypsy” Chain’s murder by the logger AJ Simmons a few days after his death. So were his family. Though no families were there for them, I was also in Seattle to attmept to treat those who lost eyes and lung function form the largest use of chemical weapons in the US (It would be the largest in North America, were it not for the “security services” riot against democarac in Quebec the next year).
And still we have kept coming – and (non-violently) fighting. Depite the chemical weapons and flash bang grenades and pervasive surveillance and permanent injuries to spirit and body suffered by so many.
In this decade, the ideas that were radical when EF! and others pushed them in the 80’s have become the basis for public discourse and public discussion about health and our environment – adn are now forming the basis for fundamental assaults on corporate power and corporate control of national sovereignty. The EU’s embrace of the Precautionary Principle for the basis of regulation is only such example – teh (thus far) successful effor tot deny wiretap immunity here is ye another.
And the vast majority of even Americans are firmly behind progressive values – depsite our excerable media.
After years spent providing services to front-line activists, I unserstand all too well how the ceaseless assualt upon our bodies, our health, our communities, our livelihoods, and our democracies by the megacorps and the suited zombies they fund to “lead” us have brought so many to despair and hopelesness.. Even when – as with today’s DN – the clear facts state the Bushies will never be free of ther threat of prosectution outside our borders after next january, some will hear the opposite message.
Yet the mere fact of the megacorps’ multi-billion dollar propaganda campaigns (disguised as “public opinion” and “advertising” – and subsidized by tax deductions) stunningly illustrates the megacorps failure: we don’t want their shit, and left to our own devices we won’t accept it. THe ad mavens inicrease the budgets each year – and each year, the effectveness falls.
Christy and Jane and others at the Lake and across the progressive blogosphere have the MSM on defense.
And the economic crash Ian so presciently described here is already dissolving the fiction that We The People are best served by living in want and poverty, while 1 % live in wealth.
The final tool of wealth – the armed forces – are broken. In a massively armed nation, 60,000 Blackwater mercenaries are as impotent and irrelevnat as the Humboldt County Sherrifs were before thousands of forest protectors.
More impotent and irrelevant – EF’s are strictly non-violent.
Today our target in Humboldt County is broken and in receivership – unthinkable in the Redwood Summer of the 80’s. Today the WB is seeking some way to stay afloat fiinancially – and the IMF is increasingly irrelevant to the free economies of much of the developng world. Argentina repaid their debt early, and told them to fuck off.
Unthinkable on a snowy morning in DC in April of 2000, when we stood outside our Convergance Center after the DC police czar had seized it (on the flimsy pretext of fire code violations) in yet another illegal attempt to suppress dissent.
And when – on the basis of medical neccessity – I was the sole demonstrator allowed in the Center – there wer no fire crews in evcidence – but here were dozens of undercover operatives swarming over the place, photographing everything.
And eight years later, the IMF and WB have never recovered.
So that August – when the DNC came to LA – we had greater power, and and honest Fedeal jurist simply enjoined the bastards from shutting down the Convergence Center. And the LAFD worked with us – not against us. I know – I was the liasion with LAFD Captain Peaks, who worked with us to keep our people safe and hydrated during hot AUgust protests on blazig pavements.
I write today not to bore you or others here about my trivial details – but to illustrate why I reject the counsel and perspectives of despair.
We ARE wining – and we are everywhere.
Join us in joyful defiance of the megacorps’ failing grasp over our proud nation and our Constitution. More of us will be injured – and more of us will be imprisoned and die as we succeed. Rachel Corrie, David Gypsy Chain, and Carlo Guiliani will not be the only martyrs we mourn. And Chiapas and New Orleans wil lnot be the last place where Power actively or passively puts those who question it to death and agony.
Yet we are winning – even our sclerosed and feckless legal culture is beig shocked into public awareness and action.
Though I respect the many reasons for despair, I do not share them.
And I scornfully reject the imputation “we are getting what we deserve”.
Even if you did not joing the protests in QUebec CIty, neither you nor the billions of innocent others deserve corporate rule and the destruction of our freedooms and our living world.
None of are so evil – collectively or individaully – to merit global ecocide.
And neither the counsels of despair nor the Kevlar of the ptifully few “security services” who identify with the megacps will make it so.
I hope you can set aside the despair and join those who are working – and succeeding – in fashioning the solutions to come after we break this tottering Empire the megacorps have failed to establish.
But whether you do or not, the work continues.
We are everywhere – and we are winning.
Ask John Yoo’s travel agent in 2010.
Yup.
Suggestion. If you can afford it, send part of your economic stimulus check to Center for Constitutional Rights, ACLU, or Amnesty International or other civil liberties/human rights organization of your choice.
amen kirk. thank you for the inspirational reminder.
Guess what Kirk, I was in Quebec city, barely able to walk, in absolute pain. I could smell the tear gas, I had to throw away all of my clothes that weekend.
Guess what Kirk, I was at three anti-war demonstrations that took place in Montreal, in january and february of 2003. All were absolutely peaceful and civilised. The third one was attended by more than 200,000 citizens, that’s about a sixth of the larger metropolitan area.
Still, as long as the media is owned by the corporations, the message barely reaches a majority of americans who listen to CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, and FOXNEWS… They ridicule HRC and BO while maveric)king Mister vietnam Legacy…
I want it all to be judiciarised, with corporate law rewritten, but that is an hypothetical future. For the moment, they are still winning, and they will steal or stop the next election [edited by mod]. I so wish I could share your sense of hope, today, I cannot. I absolutely respect your opinion and facts , rest assured of my utmost support in trying to vanquish these ratfuckers.
Pardon my sausage fingers:
The Pacific Lumber logger who threatened to murder David “Gypsy” Chain by felling a tree on him:
The logger who made that homicidal threat – and then felled the tree that killed David “Gypsy” Chain – by aiming the fall towards David “Gypsy” Chain:
That logger is AE Ammons, not AJ Simmons. I apologize to any Pacific Lumber logger named AJ Simmons for my error.
I make no apology to Pacific Lumber – who settled the suit brought by Gypsy’s parents for PALCO’s complicity in their son’s murder .
Nor do I apologize to the Humboldt County Sherrifs – who sought to have to have the forest protectors who witnessed AE Ammon’s homicidal act charged for involuntary manslaughter:
Forest Defenders don’t call Humboldt County the “Deep North” for nothing.
And yet – today:
1) PALCO is in receivership. Depite the serial corporate looter Charles Hurwitz’s maneuvering of the bankruptcy claim into a Federal Bankruptcy Court in Texas (and the complicity of so many who sit on the Federal Bench in this an other economic crimes against our citizens), the forests which remain PALCO’s last asset will remain under CA’s environmental laws: enforcement forced upon the steroid-addled Gov Gropinator by EPIC and other great attorneys.
2) The PALCO servant who was DA at the time of Gypsy’s murder was voted out of office and replaced by a progressive.
3) PALCO’s attmept to destroy yet another watershed – Nanning Creek – has foundered: PALCO was too addled to continue the administrative process require to support the destruction. Who says treesitting doesn’t work?
4) And water quality agencies (local and CA) have forced the rapacious and corrupt absentee timber landlords in CA to respect local water quality – effectively ending the corporate liquidation of the last 1% of the old growth redwoods to survive – and neutering the Gropinator’s latest attmetp to hand over California’s environment to the usual
briberylobbyists from Earth Rapers, Inc.We are everywhere. And – even when some like David are murdered and others like Jungle are missing and feared dead – we ARE winning.
Hey Qubecois -
Whatever kept you wracked with pain in Quebec City, I devoutly hope it has long passed. And good on you for participating where and when it was possible.
Most of all thanks for your support – I wish I could share with you today the hope that I and the Ruckus trainers and so many others in this long war feel. FWIW, I respect that place of no hope – I hope I don’t sound patronizing by wishing for you (and all) access to a different place when the right time comes.
Sure agree with you on the power of MSM – guess that’s why I spend (squander?) so much time on the Lake’s experiment in supplanting them and piercing the veils they place before us all.
Be well!