James Kirchick over at the Joe Lieberman weekly seems to think that he's really onto something in his textual exploration of the Lieberman canon:
Ilan Goldenberg of the National Security Network claims that, in an interview yesterday, Joe Lieberman said:
If we did what Sen. Obama wanted us to do last year, Al-Qaeda in Iran would be in control of Iraq today.
Goldenberg is apparently a believer in the meme that Sunnis and Shia's can never work together, exclaiming "There's no such thing as Al Qaeda in Iran!" Never mind the fact that the 9/11 Commission actually did find extensive ties between Al Qaeda and Iran (in that several of the hijackers passed through Iran in the months leading up to the attack, that "Iran made a concerted effort to strengthen relations with Al Qaeda after the October 2000 attack on the USS Cole," that Iran harbored Al Qaeda members after the fall of the Taliban, etc. etc.), what Lieberman actually said was "Al-Qaeda and Iran." Watch the interview here.
Yes, astute Lieberman scholars can listen for themselves to the glorious tape, that sonorous Lieberman voice, and argue with each other about whether Lieberman said in or and, and the profound, subtle significance of each. He goes on to chide Goldenberg for using me as a source for the tragic mistake, saying "apparently the credulosphere isn't just illiterate when it comes to terrorism, but the English language as well."
Well, I listened to it again, and to my unschooled ears, sure sounds like he said "in," but I didn't sit there and listen to it over and over again like Kirchink obviously did, and clearly I don't have his insights into Lieberspheric cosmology. I used this neat thing that the toobz now offer called Fox News transcripts.
I think one of Kirchick's own commenters sums it up best:
Again, Jamie- like on yesterday's expose of Burlington: this post was nothing more than an attempt to use real and serious things as a tool to bludgeon political opponents and sneeringly call out weak liberals. This is not helpful. And it is hard to make the puff-chested claim that the blogosphere doesn't know anything about terrorism when you yourself are backing insane claims that have nothing to do with the reality of Iraq.
Poor Franklin Foer. He had Kirchick foisted on him, a Marty Peretz special. Well Franklin, your instincts were right -- unless your vision of TNR is a stable of scholars who pour over the words of Joe Lieberman with Talmudic intensity and a fundamentalist fervor for enforcing obeisance. In which case you're safe, because that's what you've got.
The Plank's commitment to scrupulous fact checking continues unabated.
Update: Looks like Lieberman was calling around to media outlets, and made Fox change its transcripts. I guess Kirchick (who now dishonestly tries to pretend it was ever thus) was just printing Lieberman's press release.
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hi Jane
Holy Joe is Wholly Confused. Or lying. Or making it up as he goes along.
it was like when Babs Boxer used the word truth,about Condi,and the slime machine said she used the word troops…..THEY LIE alot,but you are a beacon of truth,justice and the American way
Sounds like and to me. Like Al Qaeda ‘n Iran…JMHO
i from column A and 1 from column B….he smiles and lies through the teeth
poor Liarman….he is the cleanup guy for the Elephants(GOP) at the Media Circus
anybody home?
What does Lieberwurst think he said?
I have to say- this is confusing.
Today is Doris Day( my hero)s…Birthday…isent her a big tin of candy and $$$$ for her Pet Org…..i love her truly deeply madly
OT: Damn. Yesterday, Public Policy Polling had Obama up 2% in PA, and now today InsiderAdvantage has Clinton only up 2% in PA, both within margin of error.
These shifts are so huge in just two weeks that it makes me very skeptical. Both companies have mediocre records so maybe they’re helping with the expectation “game.” SUSA’s last one had Clinton up 12%, so that’s probably more accurate, but that was before the bus tour.
Either way, every polling company shows a trend of rapid positive movement toward Obama.
Whether it’s “in” or “and”, it’s still nonsense. A not so atypical Lieberman tactic is to conflate things that are, in fact, unrelated to each other (ie., Al Qaeda and Iraq). The same method applies here. I enjoyed Christopher Durang’s characterization of Senator Lieberman. He called him a “sanctimonious Hobbitt”.
I don’t rely on senator Lieberwurst for my analysis of the Iraq war- or anything else.
The problem with Kirchik’s meme is that his “textual analysis” defense makes things even worse. There’s simply no evidence that if wee had not inavded and created the vast chaos and disorder that Saddam Hussein would have fallen to either the sparse Al Qaida individuals transitting through Iraq (and this was going on substantially in the “No Fly Zone” area of Northern Iraq ceded to the Kurds. And does Kirchik REALLY believe that Iranian influence was HIGHER in Iraq while Saddam was in power?
The ridiculous thing is that the US increases the influence of Iran with our current policy at every step. Motada al Sadr, probably the Shiite cleric least likely to curry favor with the Iranians, who opposes fragmentation of the country, and has better communication with the Sunni mullahs and politicians…is attacked by al-Maliki with US support. McVain claimed a few weeks ago that Sadr was a spent force, but then, after the Madhi Army embarassed the government and their US air-power in Basra he stated that he considered Sadr a danger all along. However, who REALLY came out ahead in all of this?
The IRANIANS…who played diplomat with a General who is considered by the US government to be a terrorist, and yet came into Iran and negotiated a truce between al-Maliki and Sadr. Without that General al-Maliki would be running from Basra (and may yet, as his forces seem intent on violating the terms of the truce). And the US would be dealing with a general rebellion (and, again, may yet, if they miscalculate as they did in Basra).
Betsy:
Maybe he was going for the trifecta: all of the above.
Oh Jeebus that makes me hurt from laughing.
Hmmmm Jane. The transcript says “and”
He learned that tactic from his good neocon buddies. Look at Cheney still conflating Iraq and 9/11.
It’s still warmongering drivel.
Jane, if you relied on the transcript at FOX to determine that Lieberman said “al Qaida in Iran,” you may want to note that the FOX News transcript now reads as follows (my emph):
Of course, there’s no indication that they’ve made a change or correction.
I, and - at the end of the day, who gives a shit? Either way, Lieberman is still conflating the two.
Rassmussen also has show this shift upward. But, at this point in the game one can’t play with “expectations”. Clinton needs not merely a “win” in Pennsylvania. She needs a win on the order of 60%-40%.
The only issue with “expectations” that I can see in such polls are whether they encourage of discourage voters. To some degree, in the aftermath of the Wright imbroglio, poor polling by Obama would have made it “okay” to register a dislike. But when he recovers in the numbers it suggests that the whole issue was overblown. Undecideds will have less trepidation voting for him.
In addition a close race would encourage both sides to come out, especially Obamas. Those who are Clinton supports who see such numbers and realize that she needs a BIG win just to stay in it may say, “What’s the use.”
I also notice that the right-wing pundits are now saying they hope that Obama will win the nomination..because McCain will easily handle him on foreighn policy issues. Which actually means that they are afraid of Obama, and would much prefer a candidate who voted for the Iraq Authorizing Resolution.
Addendum to my last post: I’m aware that there was something called “Al Qaeda in Iraq”, but that’s not what I was referencing. When we invaded Iraq, there was a conflation of Iraq and Al Qaeda as a justification for that action. And subsequent to his Iraq authorization vote, Lieberman defended his position, saying “we are at war with a brutal enemy that attacked us on 9/11.” Anyway, there wouldn’t be an Al Qaeda in Iraq if not for our invasion and occupation.
Did Dororthy really say “lions and tigers and bears, oh my”, or was it lions in tigers in bears? Maybe JoLie meant something like a turducken . . . IrQaida
Whatever happened to the Lieberman slush fund investigation, anyway? Any word from the US Attorney in Connecticut on all that walking-around money?
And that Katrina contracting investigation?
And the investigation of Blackwater and other Iraq contractors?
What about the poisonous trailers Katrina survivors have to live in?
Heckuva job, Joey.
Lieberspheric Cosmology:
13.8 billion years ago, Joe Lieberman exploded from a point the size of a proton at many times the speed of light, an process known as “cosmic Joflation”. At this point, the natural laws of the Joniverse stabilized, light assumed its characteristic velocity, and the spirit of Joe interacted with the Higgs field to produce matter and energy. As Joe condensed into form, the shameless treachery levels and incredible density produced a warping effect on space-time-henceforth known as quantum Liebergravity-that would suck in any positive aspect of anything and destroy it with such force that not even the light of good ideas can escape. These JoHoles sometimes form the core of entire galaxies of stupidity. The incredible energy levels generated by the collision of good sense and honor particles with the body of the Joniverse continue to fuel and accelerate the cosmic Jospansion-and Lieberspheric cosmologists predict, using new data from the W-JOE satellite, that the Joniverse will expand into infinity, as there is not enough attraction to honor and truth in the whole freakin’ Joe Lieberman Universe to cause Joe to collapse back down into a Democrat.
Speaking of “What ever happened to” … what’s happening with the passport office and the prez candidates?
hey yeah, what happened to that?… i got distracted by Obama’s bowling scores!
lol
The Durang comment was sublime. It was from a post two years ago, but I still chuckle a little when I see Lieberman. The association stuck, much like the helmet of the construction worker in that very old Crazy Glue commercial.
and Hobbits are cute…shortride …not so much
In case anyone’s interested …
John Yoo is being interviewed on the Univ of Cal UCTV Online right now (I can’t get it to work on the pc I’m using now, but maybe it will work for you) later rebroadcast times here
And hopefully they will put it on their youtube channel sometime
Well, see, it’s the grammatical rule of doubles, e.g., two negatives = a positive. Lieberman has invoked the rule of double prepositions, making the true meaning of the sentence:
See how it works?
Here’s a question: what if Lieberworst is the vote that takes us to the filibuster-proof Senate? What then, pupsters?
HERE!!!!Mark Foire cartoonon McCain Iraq 2008
If anyone missed Leinie’s link yesterday, and/or the PBS broadcast of Bad Voodoo’s War, check it out. And then tell Holy Joe to stifle himself. And BTW, has my boy Al ever explained to anyone’s satisfaction how he ever got paired up with McCain’s Sancho Panza? Just askin’.
We’re screwed then, because Lieberman can’t be trusted.
Lightning all over the place. See all later.
why arent JoeLies..adult children servingin Iraq? has ANYBODY in the liberal media aked him?
Digg IT
They made the change at Thu Apr 03 16:34:36 2008
Military time for 4:34
This would be in my time of Eastern Standard Time not the Pacific Coast read I get on here.
This in reference to the time Fox made the edit on the story.
Teddy - here you go:
“in”
Not that it matters. Just a cool net thing.
1,800 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen tmwolf and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
” He called him a ’sanctimonious Hobbit’”.
ROFLMAO…”sanctimonious Hobbit” indeed. However I wonder why we spend so much time diggin’ thru the spoor of fascist animals like Joe Lik*derman jest to prove what we and the American people already know about the issues he’s talkin’ about, in this case Iraq and Iran. The American people have LONG ago made their decision on the war AND our confrontation with Iran and the longer we waste time and energy shootin’ at the smoke of fascist lies the less time and energy we have to advance solutions to the existin’ problems includin’ Iraq and Iran but also the theft of our national treasury, the dismantling of our military and the health of the mass of people in our country.
Instead of wringin’ our hands and shriekin’ about the lies that the fascists have been tellin’ over and over again for 27+ years…let’s instead give the American people credit that they ken recognize the difference between political propaganda and the truth of their own experience. If 2006 taught us anythin’ it’s that the “Big Lie” doesn’t work unless we spend time tryin ta debunk it…ignore Joe Lik*derman and everythin’ he says about ANYthin’. Treat ‘im with abuse and condescension and likewise Crazy John McCain. A good example of what I’m talkin’ about is in the response of Senator Mccaskill to a question about Mrs. ClintoMcCain tellin’ Gov. Richardson that Obama wasn’t electable: “…this is a tough time for her. I’m sure she’s having a difficult time putting one foot in front of the other. I don’t think I need to respond to her private conversations.”
Now THAT’s shuttin’ down the gigglebox and turnin’ the question back on the questioner while completely defusin’ the slanderous meme bein’ put forth by the desperate politician.
“Sanctimonious Hobbit” indeed!! Let’s have more of that and then get on with puttin all this shit inm the dustbin of history where it belongs.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, AND DON’T GET CAUGHT IN THE CROSSFIRE!!
Must be true, then. There’s no way Fox News would lie to us.
once again, they’re missing the point of it.
Al-Qaeda in Iran would be in control of Iraq today.
Al-Queda and Iran would be in control of Iraq today.
ummmmm
either way it’s a ’stoopid’ statement.
Al-Queda–suni
Iran-shia, shiite
not pals.
al-queda in iran is a large group in iran?
so, they would be controlling Iraq together?
he hasn’t been reading his official papers much, same as mccain.
they don’t have their apples and oranges straight.
and WHAT commitees is he on?
somebody better make them a visual aid.
Oops, no link. Not so cool…
Try again.
-LINK-
Give up.
That’s why it’s so important to work to get more and better Dems into Congress …
http://cc.msnscache.com/cache......ORM=CVRE//
Then there wouldn’t be a filibuster-proof Senate. If it’s an issue that Mitch and the Rs want to filibuster, you can be assured that Short Ride will vote with them against cloture. After all, what are friends for, right?
Ain’t no such thing as a filibuster proof senate—every cloture vote is a NEW experience- sometime you get the votes- sometimes you don’t.
jane–
ed schultz was talking ’to’ a caller today, about the yoo memo and fisa, and he told them that (jello) jay rockefeller was a HERO when it comes to fisa….talked him up and up and pushed what an ally and fighter for the good he was…no mention of jello jay’s backing telco immunity and pressuring for votes. not a peep. i sent him another letter, i don’t think he reads his mail.
i posted another letter i sent to good ’ol traitor ed schultz in the last thread.
and i couldn’t watch the video, dial up, so, i don’t have a vote on ’in’ or ’and’ but i will vote that he brought IRAN up again……and again, and again….really doesn’t matter what words he uses around it, does it?
oh, and in the letter to ed, i compared him to lie-berman. calls himself a progressive, he’s become worse than rush.
he is a tool, perfect example is what he was doing to ’push’ his buddy jello jay.
yesterday he was fellating steny hoyer on the air….and i don’t use the term fellate loosely. in fact i hate that term, but that’s what it was, he does it all of time. sickening. he needs retired.
email KO with the story…he will straighten it out on AIR i bet…Shultz is such a putz…really…a putzitz
saw this
http://www.intoxination.net/fi.....6%5D_1.jpg
I’ve been reading Newshounds since they began in June of 04. I’m so used to Faux tricks it’s not funny.
OT
pass the popcorn
Chairman Conyers wants answers from Mukasey
by mcjoan
Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 02:25:52 PM PDT
Chairman Conyers and some of his colleagues on the House Judiciary Committee are demanding answers from Mukasey about his remarks claiming there was a pre-9/11 call from a terrorist safe house in Afghanistan that was not intercepted by federal authorities. They also take the opportunity to follow up on a previous request for an October 2001 Office of Legal Counsel memo providing legal analysis about the President’s war powers.
Dealing with lies, obfuscations and unwillingness to face up to the truth by the media can be extremely frustrating.
But I just had an experience that was the opposite. Yesterday, the Anchorage Daily News blog linked to a white power hate site that features HTML versions of Mein Kampf” and “The true story of Martin Luther King” on its cover. The local progressive talk radio station and my blog jumped on them.
Now they’ve removed the link, and published an apology. 25 hours from detection to action and written apology. I was impressed. I wish it was always this easy getting the media to see the truth.
“This in reference to the time Fox made the edit on the story.
Must be true, then. There’s no way Fox News would lie to us.“
Well, it is “Fixed” News.
In theory the Dems would have to pick up 11 seats to have a filibuster-proof majority, excluding Short Ride. If my math is correct it’s now 49 Dems, 1 Indy (Sanders) and 1 CFL (Short Ride). Sanders will stay with the Dems, making it 50 in the Dem caucus. 61 votes needed to win a cloture vote. That leaves 11 seats to pick up. Then the the scenario of RWCole @ 52 comes into play. That’s my take, off the top of my head.
Who puts the LIE in a short ride for help? Joe
Who puts the LIE in the location of AQ? Joe
Who puts the LIE in his allegiance to the Democratic Party? Joe
I guess that makes him a three-time loser. Lock his ass up for war crimes too.
Excellent. FOX changed their transcript. Nice catch.
Good point. And I just love McCaskill’s response to Sen. Clinton’s remark. It’s very wise. I’ve attempted this kind of reaction (albeit internally) to some of the heated primary season rhetoric that gets tossed around these days. I’ve even met some success. Saw the article in which Clinton said Obama can’t win and just hit the back button, found something meaningful to read, even got some of my own work done. Behavior modification works! But a good angry laugh now and then keeps my blood pressure in the 120/80 range.
sadly at 54—
just did it. thanks.
But I will also say that I’d rather gripe about the lies and the distortions at the risk of becoming ineffectual and neurotic (or, rather, more neurotic) than just . . . I don’t know . . . wait for it to go away like a sore tooth.
he separates truth from fiction on a nightly basis…full time job imo
64
and tortoise, sent your fox link to him, too.
ed teller-way to go!
did you save the names on the page so you can google their next domain name?
OT another blackeye
Senate kills bankruptcy measure
By J. Taylor Rushing
Posted: 04/03/08 06:04 PM [ET]
The Senate Thursday killed a key bankruptcy provision that had stalled work on a bipartisan housing bill, clearing the way for the legislation’s passage.
The 58-36 vote to table the amendment allowed senators to move on to less contentious amendments to the housing measure forged Wednesday by Sens. Christopher Dodd (D-Conn.) and Richard Shelby (R-Ala.).
All 36 ‘no’ votes were Democrats, except for Independent Bernard Sanders of Vermont and the motion to table the amendment was made by Majority Whip Dick Durbin, who sponsored the amendment. That raised the possibility that Democrats could use the vote to paint the GOP as obstructionists during the country’s worsening housing crisis.
Durbin argued passionately for the amendment for seven hours before moving to table it, noting that Republicans only showed up on the Senate floor to discuss the bill at the rate of one per hour.
“This really tries my patience,” he said. “At this point in time, we don’t have the appetite in the Senate to face this.”
Lieberman, what a lying son of a bitch. I was taking a tour down memory lane by rereading David Sirota. There was a part about the Bankruptcy “reform” act of 2005, and how Holy Joe trumpeted his opposition to the bill, then cast a “yes” vote on cloture. It makes my head explode, because it’s just what happpened during the Alito nomination. He went on local CT tv and talked about “leading a filibuster” against the nomination, before casting yes on cloture. And then there was that sanctimonious letter to constituents about gang of 13, and extraordinary circumstances. @%*$! I am so glad he was finally outed.