zed.even after reading?? Mornin’ Attaturk!

I wonder if Iran’s perception that this fighting could provide the pretext for a US invasion also played into their decision to ask Sadr to stand down.

Haven’t the past seven years amply demonstrated that ignorance is not a virtue in a commander-in-chief?

Obviously your last post was just too compelling…

Repeating: Stay away from his and his family’s war records. That’s a loser issue for us.

Acknowledge his war record when HE brings it up, but always remind folks that it’s been over 30 years since his war record and we’re not still fighting Viet Nam.

Keep hitting him on his current foreign policy ideas. That’s winner for us. As is his temper, anything we can do to make him start ranting is a net gain.. And his closeness to Bush. Make sure he talks about Iran…a LOT. And never miss a chance to point out he’s absolutely clueless domestically.

That’s how we’ll win this.

Boxturtle (It’s clear we also need a stash of candy, should the MSM drop by here)

Attaturk writes:

And further his “serious” foreign and national security policy credentials apparently allow him to know next to nothing of actual facts and details:

This is actually a prerequisite for being considered “serious” by the media.
See Kristol, Bill ; Krauthammer, Charles; or Rice, Condoleeza.

Attaturk, do you suppose McCain really believes we have enough troops to occupy Iraq and take on Iran at the same time?

Attaturk, do you suppose McCain really believes we have enough troops to occupy Iraq and take on Iran at the same time?

Does he give a fuck?

I wonder if Iran’s perception that this fighting could provide the pretext for a US invasion also played into their decision to ask Sadr to stand down.

That’s my thought as well. Which means that Cheney wasted yet another Mid east trip and you can expect him back there before long.

Boxturtle (It’s mildly annoying that Iran is more skillful diplomatically currently than we are)

awwwww c’mon .. no way do we have the troops or the resources available to invade iran .. not even from the fround in iraq ..

it’s preposterious to even think consider it ..

OT.

$19 billion here, $19 billion there.
Pretty soon you’re talking about real money.

Boxturtle, I think you’re absolutely correct wrt it being counter-productive to attack his war and/or military record.
There is a target-rich environment in his policy positions, and attacking his service looks like demeaning his , and by extension, all vet’s service. Bad for us, as well as inaccurate.

I don’t think McCain at this point knows or believes anything. He is just shooting off his mouth. Who are his foreign policy team? He doesn’t have one. He doesn’t need one in the degree that for the present crop of rethugs, the ‘team’ is simply a PR prop. If the thugs are going to campaign with this guy, they are going to have to get him into a box quick. My guess is that the ‘maverick’ is so full of himself that he won’t get into that box. He is going to self-destruct over the next seven months unless the thug bonzes take him in hand.

awwwww c’mon .. no way do we have the troops or the resources available to invade iran .. not even from the fround in iraq ..

it’s preposterious to even think consider it ..

TRAITOR!!! Blasphemer!!! BUUUUUURRRRNNN the Witch!

Boxturtle (Above brought to you by McCain for President campaign)

He is going to self-destruct over the next seven months

I hope this is correct…hmmm. If McCain were to melt down publicly, I wonder who the Republicans would try to rush in at the last minute.

So should Dem Senators at the General Peter Petraeus hearing frame their questions to get Peter to disprove McCain?
They could ask him if if Maliki called the cease fire. They could ask Peter if the Iraqi government had met any of the bench marks that he talked about last year.
Or in other words is the Surge working according to the benchmarks you, Bush and even more importantly to the Press John McCain laid out?
Now I’m sure Peter will lie and say that either we have met the benchmarks or that the benchmarks do not matter because the price of losing is so high.
At this point we ask the learned college degree general if he has ever heard of an economic concept called “Opportunity Costs “.
Then we bring up the current cost of the war and point out that we could have bought the American people how many hybrid cars for that kind of money.
The result being that we would not need be that dependent on oil anymore and the Arabs would have less money to give al Quieda.
Then we ask the General a zinger after the razzle dazzzle to confuse him we ask him just how much money does he estimate that al Quieda getting from the Saudis? When he says I don’t know we reply Now that is why the Surge failed. You never tried to cut off their means of resupply, you never even tried to find out who was resupplying al Quieda and how much were they paying?
” Know thy enemy ” Sun Tzu

Attaturk, do you suppose McCain really believes we have enough troops to occupy Iraq and take on Iran at the same time?

WTF does a decrepit flyboy know about ground tactics and deployment?

hey .. i can’t do your hotlink thingy here .. but truly .. go here:

http://turcopolier.typepad.com….._tyrannis/

scroll down to the fifth post and actually read what it would take .. militarily ..to pull off a ground attack on iran … it’s a good military assessment by a guy called “pale rider” ..

silly rabbits .. err turtles ..

Yay! Yay for the Dim Angry Old Man!

Everyone likes him!

He’s a real American!

Vote DAOM.

Wish I still had a job.

yay…

Hence the “crossing the T” joke.

WTF does a decrepit flyboy know about ground tactics and deployment?

Given that said flyboy is a West Point graduate (bottom of the class, admittedly), probably quite a bit.

A better question would be: What does he know about CURRENT troop deployments, reserves, combat readiness and morale. We could probably get a really good fairy tale from that question, with lots of easily disproven McAssertions.

Boxturtle (Not that MSM would pick up on any of them)

no way do we have the troops or the resources available to invade iran .. not even from the fround in iraq ..
it’s preposterious to even think consider it ..

Well, I agree with you, but evidently Russia does not…

Russia says US troop are massing on the border with Iran
(h/t to GregB)

hence the spanish armada link .. i ’bout spewed mah board .. lol

Yeah good point Iran not us set up the cease fire because when Maliki was in trouble American and British troops and airstrikes were not enough.
Our freakin puppet had to play at being Iran’s puppet. So Iran gets to score diplomatic points as a peacemaker and Bush’s army looks impotent because we couldn’t back up our puppet’s attempt to achieve our goals.
This shows weakness Bush cannot abide people thinking that he s weak its part of his pattern. Therefore I expect Bush will try and regain the military initiative before the GOP convention this summer in another BIG attack on somebody.

WTF does a decrepit flyboy know about ground tactics and deployment

?

who sez i’m decrepit .. :) ..

We need to stop fighting and talk about he issues. Your right McCain’s foreign policy is prowar so with 70% of America against the war we want McCain to talk about foreign policy as much as we can.
I wonder if the Maliki attack on al sadr was pushed by Bush to help the GOP in November so McCain could claim the Surge was a success? We need to ask General Petreaus that question.

hey .. fyi .. mc camin didn’t attend west point .. he’s annapolis USNA .. not USMA .. and naval officers don’t get infantry training …

if he’d opted into marines at graduation .. then he would have gotten infantry schoolin’ ..

I don’t think we’ve had a President who really understood land warfare since Eisenhower..w.e’ve had people who asked the Joint Chiefs, “Can we do it?”

Obviously, we’re going to have to brush up on our military history around here.

It’s going to be a long campaign.

hey .. fyi .. mc camin didn’t attend west point .. he’s annapolis USNA .. not USMA .. and naval officers don’t get infantry training …

Oops, My error! I still hold that they cover that as part of basic military at Annapolis…can someone who’s actually been there confirm/refute?

Boxturtle (I hate it when I make a stupid mistake)

It may be telling in that regard that as President, Ike seemed to much prefer covert ops to direct confrontation.

That’s okay, Boxturtle. You don’t make many. :)

wonder if the Maliki attack on al sadr was pushed by Bush to help the GOP in November so McCain could claim the Surge was a success?

I don’t think so….I think Iran is the target, not McBush. And I think Cheney’s latest plan to get there just failed, so I’d expect something else soon.

Boxturtle (The Iranians are supplying the “criminals”. Let’s hit them!)

Of on the business of the Queen. See everyone later.
Good day, all.

BoxTurtle, wiki’s got your back on his class rank, even if you had the institution wrong: 894th of 899.

You just know that grad #893 would love to see McCain win. “Yep, I graduated ahead of the president.”

“apparently allow him to know next to nothing of actual facts and details:”

The Neocons know what they want ( a world reshaped to their liking), they know they would rather fight a war than use diplomacy to get it, but these eggheads don’t have military experience or in McCain’s case experience planning a war.
But they do believe that if they sacrifice enough of our troops and treasure eventually we will win not by tactical brilliance but by very expensively wearing the other guy down.
However McCain and the Neocons are already on record as saying they oppose tax increases under any circumstances EVEN TO HELP OUR TROOPS.
How many troops waited how long for bullet proof vests because we did not plan to have enough vest stockpiled before the war, never mind our loyal Bushie war contractors never could deliver them on time as promised, maybe if we hadn’t cut taxes before the war we could have bought enough bullet proof vest, armored Humvees, etc to fight the war.
What pisses me off is that as soon as the troops come home McCain and the Neocons will argue that they need tax breaks more than our troops need medical care.
What pisses me off is the press is letting him get away with it.
What pisses me off is that because of tax breaks we did not buy enough bullet proof vests and armored humvees before the war and thats why many of our troops are hurt or dead!
GM and Ford I know could have made a ton of armored humvees if they had been asked before we invaded Iraq (and after 9/11 they certainly made the spare production capacity).

Thanks. I assumed Annapolis.

So, what was the intra-Shiite battle in Basra, Baghdad, and throughout Iraq all about?

Ultimately, it was about continued U.S. presence in Iraq. Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki led 30,000 Iraqi troops against his former supporter, Moqtada al-Sadr, and got his ass kicked. But al-Sadr had been one of the main forced helping al-Maliki’s rise to power. That was until they had a falling out over one simple matter: al-Maliki wants U.S. troops to stay in Iraq and al-Sadr wants our troops out.

McCrazy’s and McBush’s unlimited all powerfull USA Military is still trying to WIN? the Iraq WAR? fighting against a COUNTRY? that has NO airforce..NO tanks NO navy..NO nuttin’ hunny! Poor ol’ Bush has had his hands tied as far as nuclear weapons are concerned but alas with the help of the ‘fascist corporate media’ McCrazy could rectify that problem and bomb bomb bomb!

I don’t think so….I think Iran is the target, not McBush. And I think Cheney’s latest plan to get there just failed, so I’d expect something else soon.

Boxturtle (The Iranians are supplying the “criminals”. Let’s hit them!)
reply

Maliki failing to win with our help against al Sadr who we claim is Iran’s puppet is not going to impress any of the countries Cheney visited on his tour of the middle east.
So will Cheney try again to get regional support by showing our or the Iraqi’s strength with another attack. Or has that ship sailed and we now have to expect Darth to try something new to start a war with Iran.
I’m sure the original plan was to capture al Sadr’s top people in Iraq torture them into confessing that they were getting weapons from Iran and use that as a justification to invade.
We need a show of strength to get regional support. We need at least a half ass justification for war to show the American people. Bush figures if he wins he is back on top and nobody will care how he got there.
Bush never thinks about what happens if he doesn’t win and makes no preparations against losing.

When will the Neocons admit that their reshaping efforts are a failure? When will the MSM acknowlege that the reshaping efforts are a failure?

Ha. My email Q was just asked & answered on WJ: NATO like a chain, only as strong as its weakest link? A: Yes, all U.S. is doing by adding small countries with grievances against their neighbors is adding to U.S., headaches.

So, what was the intra-Shiite battle in Basra, Baghdad, and throughout Iraq all about?

Ultimately, it was about continued U.S. presence in Iraq. Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki led 30,000 Iraqi troops against his former supporter, Moqtada al-Sadr, and got his ass kicked. But al-Sadr had been one of the main forced helping al-Maliki’s rise to power. That was until they had a falling out over one simple matter: al-Maliki wants U.S. troops to stay in Iraq and al-Sadr wants our troops out.

Maybe I got my tinfoil hat on wrong, but I think there’s more to it than that. Cheney takes mid east tour. Naval buildup in Persian gulf. Troops moving to the Iran border AWAY from Basra. Malaki moves into Basra on VERY short notice, right after Dick’s visit.Basra is NOT the worst place in Iraq, if you wanted to fight “criminals” there are more elsewhere. But Basra is a logical jumping off sport for US operations into Iran.

I think Iran dodged a bullet when they shut Sadr down. And I think Dick is likely grinding his teeth so loudly that he’s scaring the neighbors dogs.

Boxturtle (Would love to be fly on wall when Cheney got the news that his Black op was fubar)

Our leaders do not believe they need troops when they can bomb the crap out of everyone and where there’s no anti-aircraft defense. American support of the Maliki attempt to assert himself consisted of bombing. I believe Cheney and his ilk believe the same applies to Iran. He will be even more mistaken there than he was about Iraq.

Never. They spin failure into success. Or they blame “failed execution”. Never is their ideaology flawed. Which we all know is the root cause. That’s why idealogues in power are so dangerous.

Bombing the crap out of everyone didn’t bring victory in Vietnam, but our leaders didn’t bother to serve in that war so I guess they don’t know that.

I’m sure the original plan was to capture al Sadr’s top people in Iraq torture them into confessing that they were getting weapons from Iran and use that as a justification to invade.

That is all well and fine but as we do not torture your theories go up in smoke. Typical left wing, anti american conspiracy theory.

I think we should take our President at his word when he says that Maliki’s forces put down the uprising by a few militia hard asses supported by Iranian weapons and commandoes. The Iraq armies valiantly protected their oil port of Basra and have accepted the plea for a cease fire from Sadr in the name of reconciliation. The surge is working.

So, what was the intra-Shiite battle in Basra, Baghdad, and throughout Iraq all about?

Moqtada al-Sadr is “the roach” from Apocalypse Now.

Willard: Do you know who’s in command here, soldier?

Roach: Yeah.

The Neocons are convinced that they are right that they are the smartest guys in the room that they are the elite they will never admit they are wrong.
They will like Hitler blame the German American people for their failure at the end.
The press on the other hand will change their minds and they will all say they opposed the war.

I think we should take our President at his word when he says that Maliki’s forces put down the uprising by a few militia hard asses supported by Iranian weapons and commandoes. The Iraq armies valiantly protected their oil port of Basra and have accepted the plea for a cease fire from Sadr in the name of reconciliation. The surge is working.

Bartender, I’ll have whatever that gentleman is drinking.

Boxturtle (Since I just blew my iced tea ourt my nose. Thanks for the giggle!)

LOL You steal that from Fox News?

Per Fred Kaplan at Slate: http://www.slate.com/id/2187386/

In January 2007, the National Security Council formalized the concept in a document titled “The Iraq Strategy Review,” which stated that the “strategic goal” was “a unified democratic federal Iraq that can govern itself, defend itself, and sustain itself, and is an ally in the War on Terror.”

Under that strategic goal, there can be no win in Iraq. A democratic Iraq would ally itself with its Shiite neighbor Iran.

LOL You steal that from Fox News?

Fox news is a version of the movie “Ground hog day” they call “April fools Day”

Kaplan is a native of Hutchinson, Kansas, and graduated from Oberlin College and has a Ph.D. in political science from MIT. In the late 1970s, he was the foreign and defense policy adviser to Congressman Les Aspin.

Prior to writing for Slate, Kaplan was a correspondent at the Boston Globe, reporting from Washington DC, Moscow, and New York City. He was a member of a team that won a Pulitzer Prize for a special Sunday Boston Globe Magazine on the U.S.-Soviet nuclear arms race. His 1983 book on the men who invented nuclear strategy, The Wizards of Armageddon, won the Washington Monthly Political Book of the Year award.

He has also written for other publications, including The New York Times, The Atlantic Monthly, The New Yorker, and Scientific American.

In early 2008 he published Daydream Believers[1], which discusses the Bush Administration’s use of Cold War tactics in post 9/11 actions. In the book he explores why the administration has pursued policies such as unilateral action and pre-emptive warfare.

Now just what are his real qualifications to help plan a war much less talk about it? I bet he never read Sun Tzu!

Good for you, it is no mean feat, getting them to read your question! Notice that he said our MIC was anticipating making a lot of sales to these countries to help their militaries upgrade to attain NATO standards. What a coincidence!

Jet Jockeys are not anything but jet jockeys.

I bet all the Neocons with their hate of all things multicultural have never read Sun Tzu.

I fail to see how Iraq having close relations with Iran violates any of the strategic goals.

And I believe we can achieve those goals by simply withdrawing our troops and sending in our diplomats.

Boxturtle (Didn’t somebody say “We’ve tried stupid, let’s try smart?”)

Didn’t ask that Q because I thought the answer was so obvious. But glad someone brought it out.

Thanks for that background. I’ve very much enjoyed his articles at slate for a few years now. He is one of the sanest voices on military affairs. I had no idea what he even looked like until he appeared on Hardball last week and talked a bit about Daydream Believers and other stuff. A very intelligent and well informed guy.

lol .. give it up box ..i’m not being critical here at all ..

truly .. USN doesn’t teach infantry tactics ..

i’m former USMC off… but didn’t attend USNA .. but rest assured formal training in infantry tactics even in marines and army isn’t done until first two years after entering active duty ..[called servive with troops.. summer drills in reserves don’t count as official schoolin’] the USN doesn’t teach infantry tactics ..the USMC is the infantry branch of the USN ..all marine officers get basic school infantry training .. and additional training at Cptn. and War College at Maj.. same for the army if officer is detailed infantry ..not even all army officers are trained in infantry tactics ..only those in combat arms .. arty .. armor .. infantry .. JAG’s ..medicos .. quartermaster ..corps of Engrs .. don’t get infantry unless or until detailed to infantry..

navy aviators go .. USNA .. graduate .. off to one year basic ground sch and flight trainng .. then two years service in trng. sqdrn .. in mc cain’s case .. fighters ..

USNA theaches military history.. where broad strategies of battles past are studied .. just as USMA .. but each school stresses it’s history and mission .. USN and naval history at USNA ..

history land warfare stressed at USMA ..

the navy doesn’t teach infantry tactics and the army doesn’t teach naval tactics ..except in general concept .. naval officers don’t lead infantry .. they use the marines .. and marines don’t get to drive the ship.. different career paths ..

USAF doesn’t teach land warfare either ..

only naval exception .. USN seal officers learn “small unit tactics”.. taught to them by marine’s officers and NCO’s at quantico ..

lol .. give it up box ..i’m not being critical here at all ..

truly .. USN doesn’t teach infantry tactics ..

i’m former USMC off… but didn’t attend USNA .. but rest assured formal training in infantry tactics even in marines and army isn’t done until first two years after entering active duty

Ah, the voice of experience. Consider me corrected!

Boxturtle (Very interesting read, btw. Thanks!)

That’s exactly the Catch 22 problem. Bush and his followers, e.g., McCain, refuse to withdraw until we win, and the only way we could possibly win is by withdrawing.

Yes, but I’ll bet they read Caesar and Napoleon over and over. The neocons are serious imperialists looking to establish the Fourth Reich.

it’s a common misconception box .. it’s esoteric knowledge .. i wasn’t attemptin’ to “correct ” but to add to your fund of knowledge .. i’m a benign presence here .. just lookin’ in and killin’ time ..

y’all have some good stuff most days ..

That’s exactly the Catch 22 problem. Bush and his followers, e.g., McCain, refuse to withdraw until we win, and the only way we could possibly win is by withdrawing.

I still think the killer question to McCain, the one that will destroy any chance he has is:

“Define ‘win’ as it relates to Iraq and explain how military force gets us there”

Boxturtle (He’s already said it’ll take 100 years, so why ask how long it will take?)

That’s exactly the Catch 22 problem. Bush and his followers, e.g., McCain, refuse to withdraw until we win, and the only way we could possibly win is by withdrawing.

The question that will kill McBush’s WH run:

“You’ve told us it might take 100 years to win. Define ‘win’ as it relates to Iraq and explain how military force will get us there”.

Boxturtle (I love McFables)

all neo-cons are born military experts approaching genius .. ..even those who declined to serve in their “day” .. if you don’t think so wigwam …. just ask one .. ;)

Argh..aopligies for the double post, I thought my first one got lost in the web.

Boxturtle (Three errors in one thread. Not a good start, need caffine)

Exactly. I couldn’t agree more.

As long as America has a corrupted and complicit corporate media there needs to be a means of exposing the sham of McCain to the American public. Without such a strategy McCain will continue to be seen by a majority of independents and even some Democrats as the strongest of the candidates on national defense. The corporate media is desperate to preserve the status quo.

all neo-cons are born military experts approaching genius .. ..even those who declined to serve in their “day” .. if you don’t think so wigwam …. just ask one .. ;)

Along that line, there was this from Glenn Greenwald on Thursday:

The American Enterprise Institute held an event on Monday entitled “Iraq: The Way Ahead.” They convened a panel as diverse as the ones typically convened among the Beltway establishment to talk about Iraq. It featured war cheerleader genius Fred Kagan of the AEI and war cheerleader geniuses Michael O’Hanlon and Ken Pollack of the Brookings Institution (the always in-sync, pro-war AEI and Brookings are, along with the Council on Foreign Relations, the most quoted and most-cited “think tanks” in the American media).

To commence the discussion to show us all “The Way Ahead” in Iraq, here is the very first thing that Fred Kagan said:

The first thing I want to say is that: The Civil War in Iraq is over. And until the American domestic political debate catches up with that fact, we are going to have a very hard time discussing Iraq on the basis of reality.

One has to watch the video to fully appreciate how pompously he sits there on his war throne issuing his decree about “reality” in Iraq.

It’s a very humorous article. I recommend it.

The “crossed their ‘T’” metaphor is totally flawed. Even Rumsfeld wouldn’t have used that term for operations around Mosul.

I think al-Sadr acted on his own, without Iran’s being involved. I don’t thnk Cheney’s visit was to get us jumping into Iran. Yet. al-Sadr was flexing muscle, testing whatever reorganization he’s ben doing since August, 2007. This exercise probably had very limited goals, one of which was to get bigger payoffs for being nice.

IIRC, the only true, classic “crossing their ‘T’” battles were Tsu Shima and Surigao Strait. What al-Sadr was doing was more like “dotting Malaki’s ‘i’”…

Sorry Wigwam I got Kaplan confused a neocon I with Kagan

Plenty of books have beaten up on the Bush administration’s military and diplomatic strategies. But Fred Kaplan’s Daydream Believers: How a Few Grand Ideas Wrecked American Power may be the most broad-based assault yet. In it, Kaplan hammers on everything from the White House’s faith in military technological superiority to its holier-than-thou approach to negotiating (or not). Kaplan, who writes Slate’s “War Stories” column, also explores the roots of many of these beliefs. And that’s where we start this Q&A — this first of many, I hope, with leading authors on national security.

http://blog.wired.com/defense/…..m-sma.html

Very rarely do I see the winning side declare a ceasefire.

huh?

the winning side ALWAYS “call” for a cesefire, the loosing side can “ask” for a ceasefire

eerr

when the “loosing side” “calls” for a ceasefire, that is known as “surrender”

Well, as for “”awesome” foreign and national security credentials,” here’s my favorite McCain/Lieberman clip thus far.

Reading the ACLU Hit or Miss List of the 110th Congress.The SAVE Act of 2007 (H.R. 4088) is on it.

hehe

me laughy out loud

Our side might not have to many experts either but our side has been right since day one about this war and I bet Kaplan has read Sun Tzu:)

Well, as siun wrote a while back, it was about getting Hakim’s SIIC party to drop their veto of the provincial elections law. The GOP needs the elections to go forward this fall so they can claim they’re “making good progress,” before our elections. The SIIC (since they’ve been part of our puppet government and have lost popular support) were going to lose to Sadr in the elections, so Cheney gave them the go-ahead to take them out militarily.

Promoting democracy — heckuva job, Bushie!

When the book first came out, a couple of chapters were posted online, and I read them. They were excellent, but I’ve not followed up and purchased and read the whole thing yet. Seeing him on TV last week reminded me that I should do that.

Cape Esperance in 1942 was another famous example of “Crossing the T”. Of course Jellicoe, in the “Battle of Missed Opportunities”, tried and failed to do so twice to the German High Fleet at Jutland in 1918.

Same here!

yeah .. i read GG every day .. from long before he moved to salon .. and JB’s balkinization blog .. keeps the cobwebs from betwixt mah ears ..

I neglected to include Cape Esperance because the forces didn’t include battleships, but it is almost a perfect graphic example of the concept.

Mornin’ Mr. Attaturk and Firedogs,

here’s my favorite McCain/Lieberman clip thus far.

love this image (h/t daoud)

yeah .. i read GG every day .. from long before he moved to salon .. and JB’s balkinization blog .. keeps the cobwebs from betwixt mah ears ..

Yup. The only way to start a day is Glenzilla and coffee.

At Balkinization, I read everything by Marty Lederman but only the first line or two of most of the rest. I wind up reading about a quarter of JB’s stuff.

hey firedogs,

Scarecrow is upstairs with more thready goodness :D

mah gawd .. that’s so double-ugly it’s damn near “cruel and unusual punishment .. put a warnin’ on that damn thing eh .. a;fore someone gets broken eyes or catches something worse ..like corrupted vision ?

patient… i wuz viewing a blog ..

md .. a blob you say ..

p: no ..a blog and ..

md .. ahhh here’s the x-rays .. mah gawd man .. you’ve broken both eyes ..

splurfff !! ;)

i find jb and the rest .. even the commenters to be good reference mat’l .. especially the con law stuff . just as glen is very instructional .. he led me here for ex. ..

i’ve lurked here and at jb’s for quite some time .. only got up the ‘nerve’ to start “postin” ” very recently ..

lively bunch here ..and sometimes a tough crowd there .. lol ..

welcome, jkat!