Lost in last week's hubbub was the news that "Curveball" -- the mysterious Iraqi engineer whose bogus claims on Saddam's weapons capabilities were used by Team Bush to justify invading Iraq -- has been outed:
An Iraqi engineer who provided the information that became one of the key planks in the Bush administration's case justifying the invasion of Iraq has been tracked down by undercover reporters to a drab residential block in southern Germany.
Rafid Ahmed Alwan, code-named Curveball (a baseball term for deception), has been in hiding since the invasion five years ago, and lives under an assumed name.
The German government's got him hidden away, and for good reason: I can imagine a number of people who would want him dead.
But get this:
Although German intelligence officials had warned the CIA that Curveball's claims were unreliable, and UN inspectors had failed to corroborate them, the Bush administration promoted the existence of such mobile labs for months after the invasion.
Now Curveball denies having made the claims in the first place. The BBC 2 programme Newsnight broadcast last night secretly filmed footage of the discredited agent who was approached by Der Spiegel magazine in his German hideout where he declined to give a formal interview. His face was blanked out in the footage in which a reporter asked him on his doorstep whether he had ever spoken about Iraq's biological weapons. Curveball replied "No."
I wonder why this news didn't lead all the evening news broadcasts or make the front pages of our papers. Instead, our media was either freaking out about Jeremiah Wright or about whether Hillary faced sniper fire in Tuzla ten years ago.
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All your Basra are belong to us
Woohoo!
**sputter*** ***fume***
Hi PW. Are we surprised??
Dan Abrams reports two McCain aides have ties to subprime mortgage crisis.
Good post, PW. Sorry about the OT.
Here’s the full story from Der Speigel (in English) that “The Independent” refers to in the second quote from PW’s post.
At the end of that lengthy article, the authors do a recap of who’s doing what these days. Hans Blix is working for the Swedes again, David Kay is a consultant, George Tenet has retired, and Saddam Hussein was hanged. And Curveball?
He wants to hear an offer? Maybe Regnery could give him a book deal.
OMG, PW. Why didn’t this make headlines? Stotlight and Digg, everyone.
And 45 minutes to kaboom David Kelly is dead too…after having contacted Judy, Judy in his last email. How convenient.
Or he could become a commentator for Fox Lies.
Whoo hoo! This is a classic case of a double liar’s paradox. A pathological liar (the US government) claims that another guy (Curveball) is telling the truth; then Curveball is revealed to be a pathological liar. When asked whether he really said something, Curveball replies no. Well, if he really is a pathological liar, no matter whether he says yes it’s true or no it isn’t, we don’t know whether he’s telling the truth or not. But for that matter, we don’t even know whether he’s really a pathological liar either. Maybe the US government just made the whole damn thing up in the first place.
One more link for folks looking for more about Curveball. Author Bob Drogin came to the FDL Book Salon last December to talk about his book Curveball: Spies, Lies, and the Con Man Who Caused a War.
It was quite the chat, hosted by the incomparable Emptywheel, and Bob even came back hours later to answer a few more questions that people had asked after he had to leave the first time.
Digg is sending me a new password for the trillionth time.
Say what?
What we do know is that our government repeatedly lies.
OK, so we know the Bush administration lied about the nature of the evidence, or lack thereof, of WMD. So they knew Curveball was unreliable, because the Germans told them so, but used his “intelligence” as the basis for war. But why should we believe anything Curveball says now?
But they SAY they’re telling the truth.
Wow, thanks Peterr.
Wow, this also fits perfectly with the 60 Minutes story last night about Murat Kurnaz. They absolutely made stuff up at Guantanamo to continue holding him. They just made up everything for what they wanted to do.
When will the war crimes trials start?
Mahalo, Peterr and PW!
Digg no longer allows me to submit posts. It does not show me the “prove you’re human” letters and numbers, and when I try to listen to them, it only tells me three or four of them and then quits. Thus I cannot submit.
Perhaps the Senate Intelligence committee might be interested in hearing Curveball’s story.
When some other country initiates them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly
Great thread PW. Thanks.
Another sociopath, in a sea of sociopaths…. Figures.
Ah, yes — I remember now.
My first thought, though, was this David Kelly. “Did he die and I missed it? And what does that have to do with Iraq, Curveball, etc.?”
Thanks for the link.
I don’t believe that he is Curveball. I don’t believe there was a real Curveball. I think they made the whole shebang up and used people they could discredit in order to hide their lies just like they always do about everything….and I believe that includes the official story of 9/11 too. So there.
OT: Homeland Security bans IBM indefinitely from US Federal Contracts
You can only play with my toys if you play my way.
Good Evening Phoenix Woman and Firedogs -
LS @ 27- agree, agree, agree
and KO just alluded to this reverse engineering of their fabrications in commenting about the 60 Minutes story
I believe BushCo might make up stuff — as we have seen. But there’s no way they’d get the German government to not only go along with their lies, but also to put up hundreds of thousands of euros (per Der Speigel) for the privilege.
Bob Drogin offered this little nugget in his chat last December:
Now I remember. I’d not heard (if it had ever been reported) that it was not suicide. Thanks.
The more responsible media (bloggers like us) were calling bullshit on Curveball in 2003. He was a Chalabi-provided source that was mentioned at some point in late 2002/early 2003 by either Powell or Armitage after Chalabi made reference to him. No cite, just memory for this but also the fact that the Germans were suspicious of him was at some point actually newsworthy.
Curveball gave our “War Preznit” the cover he needed to head into Iraq, something he had been lusting for since Saddam put out a hit on his daddy after GW1. My guess is that before Daddy was Prez, Junior would have had to have been sober for more than 24 hours to even unfold the fucking map to find Iraq on it.
Also, if you remember the USS Stark that little ac of war occured on St Ronnie’s watch, but at a time when Rummy was shaking hands with Saddam as an Weapons client and the Iran-Iraq war was winding down.
I would pay good money to see the documents related to Cheney’s “Energy Task Force” meetings that the Supreme Court declared off-limits. Petro-dollars to donuts there were assurances given to the “Energy” moguls and their companies that cheap, plentiful petroleum reserves would be forthcoming with the removal of Saddam from Iraq and they’d all get first crack at the oilfields.
It’s quite likely that the guy isn’t telling the truth now; it’s widely assumed that he lied to get a cushy asylum deal in Germany, with lots of money from German intelligence for saying what people wanted to know.
But it’s also possible that he never made specific claims attributed to him.
Guy’s supposed to be an alkie, right. Maybe he made the claims in a blackout, or a series of blackouts.
Maybe Judy Miller made them up for him… after all, she was in the weapons “fabrication” business in a different but more unique way too…
Thanks for this, Peterr! I just got home and bolted down a quick supper, and the first thing I saw in my e-mail was the Der Spiegel piece.
How is everybody? It’s snowing to beat the band here in Minnesota.
I’ll have another serving of Phase 2, Jello.
So why would the Germans pass on to the U.S. information that was not only deemed unreliable by them but that Curveball may not have even given them?
Could be…but, if members of the German government were given some kind of “oil future” assurances…they’d go along with anything…and they would never admit to being a part of “it”. That is why Cheney’s oil deals need to be made public. They are no better than the US.
The war is/was about oil and strategic “oil” logistics.
Lying to get an asylum deal is pretty much Drogin’s take:
Hearing Colin Powell cite your lies before the UN, followed by seeing the bombs falling on Baghdad, would probably give anyone in his position enough for a breakdown.
cha cha…me too
This whole thing is a massive cluster. I think that the Germans were trying to make the US (i.e., Bush and his people) happy in the wake of 9/11.
Or am I confused…did the Curveball “information” about WMDs come via Chalabi, and all the Germans told us was that it was unreliable? I am no expert on these matters…
hey (((TexBetsy)))
just sayin’ hi to a fellow central texan, wishing you comfort and peaceful slumber - did ya catch the Statesman’s coverage of the Williamson County convention on Saturday ?
you beat me to it!
dang.
If there was/is a Curveball and we know there is a Chalabi– they were working for us.
(whistling away now)
What happened in the wake of 9/11 has benefited many. I don’t trust the German government…even now….
Ironically, I don’t blame the CIA so much as I do Cheney’s stovepipe operations in DoD, I think Tenet had a role he could’ve played in denouncing it, like he originally had on the infamous 16 words, and, then failed to read the SOTU…! I hold Darth more responsible…
Maybe the Germans won’t let him leave. Maybe they have court hearings planned for him???
Just the headlines. Illuminate me.
I’ve always believed that Chalabi was “Curveball”, if there even was a Curveball, which I highly doubt…now they’ve got a red herring to get the bloodhounds off the track…God forbid Chalabi gets caught for “wrongdoing”…just ask Jordan….
They made it up in order to invade Iraq, called “somebody” super duper secret as the “source”…lied… and invaded to secure the oil. What a bunch of BS.
yep.
The only liars I am concerned with are ours.
The way I’d heard it initially reported was Curveball was Chalabi’s nephew, I’m not sure if that still holds true tho…!
Consider for a moment how much money he might gain if this fellow was simply willing to say Yes, I told the US about Saddams WMD’s.
Consider how long he would live!
here ya go - just look at ‘em - Yee Haw !
video from convention (approx. 6 mins)
ps - am on a pie baking jag - will bake for meet ups :D
Again from Drogin — this time from his book (pp. 29-30):
With these kinds of things flying around, it’s no wonder the Germans were trying to be helpful.
Chalabi is the culprit in the Iraq story, and BTW he met with McCain several times….
He is a snake.
Williamson County? Wow, give me smelling salts…pronto.
We may be meeting this Sunday. Did you get the invite?
But he’d be dealing with liars, cheats, and killers if he tried that. Would he try that?
It wasn’t just the Germans… Why did we know that Saddam had the capability to produce Anthrax? We had the receipts! Reagan/Bush provided it to them…!
I wouldn’t assert anything with much certainty on this topic..) Although I really enjoyed Drogins book and the FDL salon.
You know, thinking about it now
and given the history of antagonism between Bush the Elder and Bush the Lesser, I don’t believe Geedub really cared if Saddam had a contract out on daddy. I think that’s yet another lie by the Rovians and neocons as one of the many justifications for illegal behavior; it’s been picked up by the compliant media and is now woven into the fabric of the Iraq Myth.
no! but would love to - am working till about 4 our time,
details ?
Ah, so they met at family reunions.
email me. tex betsy at g mail
Hmmm. Where does John McCain stand on the Curveball question? Google “mccain curveball” and you get 138,000 hits. It will take me a while to sift through them. The problem is that apparently people writing about McCain really like to use “curveball” as a baseball metaphor…
I think I read in the last week or so that even the story about the “hit” on GW41 was made up too.
These people are Neocons…they’ve had an agenda forever, they fabricated all of it. They compartmentalized information. They invented stuff right and left…they tied it all up with a “yellow ribbon” and sold it to the people.
They are, and have always been liars, with access to the powers they needed to pull off the biggest lie the history of the US.
firedogs -
found this image when looking for McWrong w/ Chalabi pix - who is this ?
TexBetsy - expect email in about 10 mins
Germany was also sticking their nucular nose into Iran…
http://www.spiegel.de/internat.....65,00.html
and so was Helliburton:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7119752/
so much money to be made, so many resources to be had, so much enmity to engender– the West needs to stop it.
Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.
I thought I read that the Pentagon report on the 600k Iraqi documents found no evidence of a Bush I hit plot too. Still trying to find the linky though.
Waaaahhhh…where’s the link?
The toobz are wonky…at least mine are…s.l.o.w….
Heh, A link might make it easier…! ;-)
That’s probably where it was. It is very recent.
Yes, but they are, and have always been incompetent too.
At times, the progressive community is far too quick to leap at Bush’s lies and master plans for grabbing power to explain things, when quite often BushCo’s sheer incompetence is at least as much of a factor.
Of course, if they really are masters at lying, the whole “incompetence” thing could just be a clever smokescreen . . .
OT-Has anybody seen Steve AR?
not since friday.
k n e e p a d s!
h e l l o…
driveby
unclear but tantalizing link - ‘Skeletons’ think it might be Joe Bonano (sp?)
linky
Thanks, TB. I hadn’t been around at the same time as him for a few weeks. Glad to know he’s been here more recently.
here’s a nice photo of Chalabi and Joey..
http://www.cooperativeresearch.....-11040.jpg
I think they planned and executed a compartmentalized plan…starting before 2000…all of it…some of it initially successful…and their downfall is due to their incompetence. There are way too many logical questions that are unexplained due to their secrecy….JMHO.
You will know them by their “fruits”…truer words were never spoken.
Ding.
hey you, long time since we were on same thread - hope you and yours are well
believe Halliburton is still in Iran
NYT
You mean the photo at the top of the Skeletons’ page? I don’t know why they’d think that was Joe B with McCain. Take a look at the image on wiki of Joe B.
hi!
all is well, and hope the same is true for you.
Gotta love those loopholes…
Second Tuesday of next week.
From the Newsweek article on the Pentagon report:
Well, I haven’t found a smoking gun on McCain/Curveball yet. But I did find an interesting piece at Think Progress about McCain’s coziness with Chalabi…
“A new book by Aram Roston reveals that Chalabi supported John McCain (R-AZ) for president in 2000, believing that the senator would be the most receptive to his agenda. Muckraked reports:
One of his key backers has been John McCain, who was one of the first patrons of Chalabi’s grand-sounding International Committee for a Free Iraq when it was founded in 1991. McCain was Chalabi’s favored candidate in the 2000 election since Chalabi knew that he would be able to free up the $97 million in military aid plus millions pushed through in Congress and earmarked for Chalabi’s exile group, the Iraqi National Congress, but held up by the Clinton State Department.
Indeed, McCain was a Chalabi backer long before President Bush took power. In 1997, he tried to pressure the Clinton administration into setting up an Iraqi government in exile. Despite opposition from the Pentagon and the State Department, the next fall, McCain co-sponsored the Iraq Liberation Act, committing the United States to overthrowing Saddam and funding opposition groups.”
(snip)
More from the Newsweek article mentioned above:
More on McCain/Chalabi:
The Raw Story
Yoo mean they din’t try an kill my daddy?
-Chimpy the Booed Pitcher
I have to say I kind of hate seeing the use of a baseball used on Opening Day in Major Leagues.
wasn’t his face priceless when he realized he was not getting the same greeting he got at that game in new york city after 9/11
Yep, McCain is more Bush than Bush!
Who would have guessed the Germans would have been accomplices in the manufacture of poison gas?
-G
Gonna have to start calling him Pickles for that pickle-puss.
-G
He certainly didn’t look like a happy camper…! *g*
Evening, Ma’am!
Let’s just call him Dill for short.
This is way EPU’ed, but I just had to comment on this. Nope, they really are incompetent. There is no way they could have planned these fuck-ups to fall this way. You could not make this shit up.
There’s some recent news on that ‘hit’. I must have read it on RawStory.com, but I have no link. Seems it was all just a mistake and there’s no evidence beyond what the Kuwaitis gave us.
Lying liars and the lies they lie lie lie like dogs.
Excellent question! Gets right to the heart of our problem. There is not only an imbalance of power within America, but your question points to the great possibility that there is a terrible frightening imbalance of power in the World. I wonder, did Dick Cheney visit them shortly before they divulged?
Too much addiction to oil is killing us all.