hi christy

Christy!

Ah, Christy – but what goes best with Roosting chickens? Teh koolaid? Or a nice dry white whine?

Is that a death knoll i hear oh so faintly in the background of the NYT link?

Chicken Run is such a hoot! But you need to have seen The Great Escape to truly appreciate it.

Here’s some criticism of McBush in the Philly Inquirer editorial – finally. Too bad we don’t see this on the Front Page.

“McCain’s “hands-off” attitude could prolong the economic woes and hurt responsible homeowners. Both Democratic presidential candidates, Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton, propose solutions that better reflect the urgency of the mortgage mess.

No matter what, the credit crunch and housing meltdown will cost taxpayers. McCain no doubt remembers that from the $125 billion government bailout of the savings and loan industry of the late 1980s, a scandal in which he played a minor role.”

I know that Tom Cole is the “Chair Man” of the NRCC, but is it normal to have your picture taken sitting in a chair in the middle of a room with no desk?

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/i…..bs-500.jpg

Bright lights and rubber hoses?

a step in the right direction

I keep recalling Reagan. This fall, will we see Obama or Hillary repeatedly clean McBu’ush’s clock in debates — incinerating his befuddled ass rhetorically and factually — only to have the MSM Court Composers cluck on about how McBu’ush “won”?

LOL. Someone absconding with the desk is what clued them to call for an audit of the funds. Still, they didn’t notice the desk was gone until after the photo. The culprit had no use for flags.

ya know? i felt the same way after each of the dem debates that hillary “won”.

southern

you might have seen this already in siun’s thread last night.
aljazeera from last night.

http://english.aljazeera.net/N…..6E4290.htm

sorry christy-wrong thread, darn it.

Well, there you go again.

Good morning! I love the deflated elephant photo below the one of Cole. Now, off to read the whole thing and savor it. :)

You can bank on it. They fluffed Dubya real good, too. More people are paying attention this time – thru the tubes and otherwise. If the people prevail – it will be in spite of the MS media.

Green Grass and High Tides (it’s on iTunes right now by … The Outlaws)

Right, Bu’ush got the same kind of pass. Sometimes I would think “were they seeing the same debate I saw?”

Bumper sticker seen recently:
“Of course it hurts! You’re being screwed by an elephant!”

Tom Cole-

“This isn’t an ideologically conservative country, and maybe some of us overreached in thinking that it was, and have been corrected for that.”

OMG, there’s one republic with an ounce of brains. I’m impressed. /s

Good morning, Christy. The tea hasn’t kicked in yet but I’m still ready to get started. At some point I’ll catch up with myself.

It was a good discussion on book salon yesterday. I looked at the McCain ad this morning and juxtaposed it with the WaPo front page piece on Obama, suggesting he fabricated his life story on how his father got to America. I read the article carefully and this premium fronts page space was all because he gave an abbreviated account of how his Kenyan father was part of an airlift education program in which Kennedy did not take part in until a few months later. So!

I have my family stories also but if taken apart, especially since they were relayed orally, there would be some details that are off by a few months. Instead, Obama’s story is being equated with Hillary’s totally fabricated duck-for-cover story. This is like faulting Shakespeare for not being an accurate historian. He’s using the story to make a point not to be a recorder of detailed history.

This is a mild preview of what we can expect of the media once McCain steps into the picture. The McCain new image ad is a totally fabricated account better equated with Hillary’s duck-for-cover tale.

My patience is really wearing thin.

The debates: horrible how wonky Gore was with all that fuzzy, confusin’ math. And Kerry, such an effete horsefaced Frenchman. The MSM sure picked a winner for us with the down to earth, dimwitted beer buddy.

McCain is the slighty less dimwitted than Dubya, BBQ buddy.

Senator Maverick needs to be depicted as the Marlboro Man emaciated by lung cancer as the true image.

Mavericks operate from the seat of their pants and not from their head.

morning folks …
reading the nyt article Christy pointed us at:

Still, many within the Democratic Party believe that the gains of the 2006 election weren’t merely the result of good strategy.

gawd, I hope not. Hard to believe any demo gains are the result of “good strategy” … haven’t seen a lot of that around < rolls eyes >

I really don’t like the whole opposition research thing, but if it has to be done, it would seem worthwhile to look into McCain’s decision to leave the Navy. His father and grandfather had both been four-star admirals. McCain left as a captain. If he saw the hand writing on the wall and was never put up for rear admiral, there must be a paper trail of performance ratings or a history of not checking all the necessary boxes. If he was actually passed over when put up for flag rank, there must be a written report of the review board which gave the reasons for non-selection. At a minimum, it could be pointed out that the applicant for commander-in-chief was not promoted to rear admiral.

There was – at one time – oodles of documentation about George Bush’s dereliction of duty when he was in the Air Natonal Guard. Most of the original documentation has been destroyed or has been hidden away. Same with the documentation on his 1972 Houston coke bust.

No doubt McCain’s military records, or at least any critical performance reviews that recommended no promotion or worse, have similarly been “disappeared.”

One of my former students is a full Colonel in the Marine Corps. and moving up every time when his promotions are due. He once told me that if there is “bad paper” in your files and you are passed over for a scheduled promotion to the next rank, you may as well retire because it isn’t going to happen.
I think your comment has a lot of merit on McCain’s reason for “retiring.”

OT:

Sadr orders fighters to stand down
from AL JAZEERA
Iraqi Shia leader calls on followers to withdraw from streets after six days of clashes.

yeah — I would expect that if the cleansing of mcsame’s records hasn’t already been done, then it’s underway right now … they certainly learned the lesson of bush’s “service”

and I love this quote:

I once asked Cole about the positions his candidates were taking on immigration and the war. “I don’t think I’ve ever asked a candidate what he believes,” he said. “We’re just looking for winning candidates.”

the presumption being that once they’re on the payroll, they’ll vote per the thug party line regardless of what they actually think? no need for integrity here …

This is going to bear watching very closely. al-Sadr has a plan and I don’t think al-Maliki or Petraeus are going to like it very much. He’s shown that his forces are capable of taking on the puppet Iraqi forces and if he starts this holy war stuff it’s really gonna get nasty. I imagine the Iraqi people are so tired of the occupation and repression that if al-Sadr shows them what kind of leader he can be they’ll flock to his call when it comes, be it jihad or revolt. And the Americans just couldn’t help allying itself with one Shi’ite faction over another. When I was in the military I always figured flag officers were smarter than enlisted men. Guess I was wrong.

When I was in the Air Force, promotion was automatic with time, from Lieutenant through Captain (Navy Lieutenant). Promotion to field grade officer, Major or Navy Lt. Cmmdr, was by passing a promotion board. If you were passed over twice, you had to leave the service. I think that held true through promotion form field grade (Col. or Navy Captain) to flag rank (Brig. Gen’l or Rear Adm’l).

At some point, either McCain decided himself that he wasn’t going to make admiral, or the was passed over. I haven’t read his memoirs to know if he talks about it. Don’t get me wrong. Captain is a high Navy rank, and not many make it, but they are well below Commander-in-Chief.

This will get spun by the MSM Court Composers as dastardly, scurrilous lib’rul attacks on a Hero.

This will get spun by the MSM Court Composers Stenographers as dastardly, scurrilous lib’rul attacks on a Hero.

Fixed

FWIW, I don’t think many POWs from Vietnam made flag rank, Admiral Stockdale not withstanding.

also OT: Clinton campaign unable to pay the bills

Like I said, I’m not crazy about it myself, but after their crap acting like a Navy Lt. Jg., John Kerry, could write his own medal recommendations, I think it would be a fair consideration. Now, I think I’ll go take a shower.

The economy is a vulnerable spot for McCain. The problem is so many people fall asleep at the mention of economics but they do understand the result at the grocery store, the gas pump, healthcare. People understand higher living costs. Words have to be selected carefully and not be defined by the know-it-all elite few. The people have to take over the language.

Language has to resonate with the people. We let the Repugs make the call when we are in a Recession. They never will. We should be using that word now until it becomes part of the Republican description.

How to define the Republicans? How to define the debates?

With his injuries he wouldn’t be able to pass the physical. He can’t raise his arms above his shoulder. The stiffness you see in his actions are a direct result of the severe injuries he received when his plane was shot down and his rough treatment upon capture. Add that to what they did to him in the Hanoi Hilton.

A career army woman I know got caught sexing another woman. She was evaluated psychiatrically and careerwise, and it indubitably stopped any serious forward progress with regard to rank.

Right. In the Navy and Marine Corps once you’re passed over for promotion your career is effectively over. You can stay in the service but you will stay at your current rank. Promotion on the second go round is rare but does happen. If you’re passed over a second time you’re asked to leave the service.

He didn’t fly after his release, but he continued in the Navy, was promoted to Commander and Captain, and commanded a large aviation squadron. So I don’t think the physical injuries were related.

sexing another woman! funny expression. I guess in the army you don’t make love.

That’s exactly what they did in 2000. The MSM would go on and on about how shrub was a regular guy and how elitist Gore was. The MSM has to go

No doubt McCain’s military records, or at least any critical performance reviews that recommended no promotion or worse, have similarly been “disappeared.”

this though might not actually be true, I do not think the military is gonna be happy about an incompetant’s records being “dissapeared”.

they might still be around, kept by the real professionals and those that really understand what patriotism actually means

“The problem is so many people fall asleep at the mention of economics but they do understand the result at the grocery store, the gas pump…”
___________

Cheryl and I went down to Primm to see Kenny Loggins last night. 33 miles south of Vegas. At $3.53 a gallon, add ten bucks in gas to the price of the evening. Also, it was a relatively small venue, but was only maybe 2/3 full.

Nothing’s fair in love or war.

southern at 33 says-”his is going to bear watching very closely. al-Sadr has a plan and I don’t think al-Maliki or Petraeus are going to like it very much. He’s shown that his forces are capable of taking on the puppet Iraqi forces and if he starts this holy war stuff it’s really gonna get nasty. I imagine the Iraqi people are so tired of the occupation and repression that if al-Sadr shows them what kind of leader he can be they’ll flock to his call when it comes, be it jihad or revolt. And the Americans just couldn’t help allying itself with one Shi’ite faction over another. When I was in the military I always figured flag officers were smarter than enlisted men. Guess I was wrong.”

left you a bunch of stuff in the last thread.

sadr just submitted a 9 point plan to the government–it was ’well received’

been searching for the statement, but not out yet, only ap and reuters news feeds.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5971930/

left you another link, from a news station in wisconsin in the last thread. but is the same thing.

only things i can find so far.

i wrote in the last thread,

military held up

parliament held up

he’s got them in a stalemate,

i’m waiting for checkmate.

maliki isn’t the power there, he is, so let them have thier own elected government and we can gt the fell outta there. only thing is, we aren’t leaving until that oil agreeement is signed.

so, yeah, bears watching.

My thought on McCain’s Hanoi record is that it was forty years ago. I’d rather spend efforts on what he’s done between then and now. The only reason why the Repugs could swiftboat was because they positioned themselves as the military authority party. They could use their dedication to war to attack Kerry.

Kerry was an easy target. When I worked on his campaign I felt he only wanted to win the nomination but not the presidency. This was hard on Edwards. Edwards wanted to respond to the swiftboaters immediately and nip it in the bud. Kerry refused.

Swiftboating just won’t work on McCain. The history and record is there even if airbrushed in spots.

OT: There Goes Camelot.

How can we trust anything Obama says if he can’t even tell the truth about his own bio?

Something like thirty R’s retiring and or not seeking re-election already.
The writing is on the wall.
Republicans, they taste like chicken.

sadr will end up in power before the oct provincial elections … maybe a power-sharing arrangment, but basra makes it pretty clear that the al-maliki gov’t can’t win militarily over sadr. So, they’ll fold now, try to spin basra as a success, and help sadr get power.

bush/betrayus will try to tell us this was a great success, but we all know al-maliki was going to lose unless the us joined the ground war.

so, cheney’s plan to eliminate the rival power before the provincial elections will end up bringing about exactly the opposite result. Huh, who could have guessed? he’d be completely wrong again?

Was sniper fire involved?

Thanks for the explanation, we just cannot afford to move this guy into a Commander in Chief position. And yes, I am preaching to the choir. *g*

Good one Betsy…:)

Nothing’s fair in love or war.

I think this was the first “truism” I ever heard in my life. Who said that?

christy-came to post this, but saw southern’s note…it begged an answer.

ok, on topic-”Now, pick a candidate or an issue, and let’s get to work”

i posted this in siun’s thread yesterday.
this is what i have been doing for a while now, and stepped it up with a vengeance since Ali’s murder.

======

siun, i’m hitting the hay soon, just wanted to say, again, i really feel that getting the facts out there is an effective way to bring this to an end…..after all, that’s what you and gorillasguides.com are doing….

just keep sending out the facts to anyone, no need to spin it…

and i think some in the media are starting a competition to see which ones can get the facts right. i’ve noticed a change in tone when they ’roundtable’ lately….

now that information is out that contradicted what they said, that showed they didn’t even know shiite from suni, they’re comin’ in a little more prepared. every time i hear something not accurate, if i know it, i send a letter to inform…..their guest may be gone by then, but they can catch it the next time someone spins a lie on their show, it makes them look bad and affects their reputation, and that’s what i tell them.

if they are someone that cares about that, then they are going to make sure it is told correctly the next time.
and yes, i believe that there are a few that do care about that. they just can’t read everything.

so, if you hear an inaccurate thing, or a spin that isn’t a complete telling of a fact, send the fact and correct it, with the desire to educate.

=======

i write specifics, i give facts, i don’t rant, i don’ rave……i get emails back.

then later, when it happens again, i write again. and i get emails back.

and i will keep on doing it. every. single. time.

that’s my way of doing something and not feeling helpless in all of it, point out that the ’roosting chickens’ are sitting on (sitting)duck’s eggs. and isn’t that a little uncomfortable?

and now you all know why i am so ’link hungry’

((((fld))))

Part of that is military tradition. POW’s, officer and enlisted, are automatically promoted on the date they are eligible. I think his rank of Commander (CDR) was a result of that. Promotion to flag rank in the Navy almost always requires that the officer has commanded at sea (Supply Corps excluded as they’re not eligible for command at sea). That may have been a factor. I don’t imagine he has any letters of reprimand in his file. I would also imagine his fitness reports, the Navy’s annual officer performance evaluation, look pretty good. Although there is that incident that a rocket from his plane is what started the terrible fire on INTREPID, I believe it was.

No, it involved claims of connections to JFK and Selma.

IIRC, It was my Mother.
*g*

McCain’s bio is important. If the Bailey’s need to know about Barack’s childhood in detail, they should also know about McCain’s younger years. McCain wrecked nine airplanes. The last time was not his fault. McCain was as much like a frat boy as a kid could be in the Navy. He is also mad as a hatter.

I know. Not many officers of any sort make it, but aside from Stockdale, Robinson Risner made Brig. Gen. in the USAF. There may have been a few others.

I thought it was five planes.

so, cheney’s plan to eliminate the rival power before the provincial elections will end up bringing about exactly the opposite result. Huh, who could have guessed? he’d be completely wrong again?

And the winner is Darth Cheney! Wrong ten out of ten! That’s what I call a solid record.

Republicans, they taste like chicken.

Think I’ll eat vegetarian for a while, thanks.

If Obama continues telling this story unchanged, even after careful historical analysis shows it to be inaccurate, or claiming that he was “misspeaking” due to being tired, then we’ll know he’s just like Senator Clinton.

This is a non-story, of course. Kennedy’s real involvement a year later could easily have made it’s way into the family’s remembrance of the event.

Just more anti-Obama folks like you and Taylor Marsh who flail about because Clinton’s campaign is tanking so badly. Very very sad.

Only 10?

Christi:
A change needs to come

Sam Cooke:
A change is gonna come

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT8UgLlCHVI

His recklessness is fine to reveal but the moment it goes into his “war hero” side, he’ll win. We don’t need the several planes he wrecked to show his reckless. There are many more current examples.

If the purpose is McCain’s recklessness, let’s explore that.

You may be right, but Stockdale and Robinson Risnor managed to make flag rank. Actually, any officer’s rating that included anything other than walk-on-water comments (i.e., phrases like “needs improvement”) doomed careers. If a board thought McCain might be impepetuous, or anything like that, it would be a basis for non-selection. Since I’m not going to do the research myself, and don’t like the “hit man” role, I’ll drop it. I just don’t like the crap they pull on our guys.

Yeah, the oil is the sticky part, isn’t it. Started with oil and continues throughout the whole process. No way al-Sadr is going to let the US share in Iraqi oil revenues. He wouldn’t have to blow anything up, just shut what little pumping is going on down. I’d recommend Darth Cheney watch The Battle of Algiers but I’d be wasting my time. Wonder if Billy “The Grin” Kristol has ever studied the French in Algeria. Probably put his own spin on it and dismiss it.

Agreed.

@22 I commented on this abbreviated family oral story. It is not a fabrication like Hillary’s story. I know my accounts of my family history would be slightly off.

OT: By the way, Dakine, I saw a show on PBS about a high rise community of the retired elderly there in San Antonio. They interviewed a resident couple, and gave the name. The husband was Robinson Risner, ex-POW and twice winner of the Air Force Cross. The interview was strictly regarding the housing community and no mention was ever made of who he was, or what he had done. I thought it was pretty interesting.

Christi:
A change needs to come

Sam Cooke:
A change is gonna come

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT8UgLlCHVI

just read the digby link that Christy put in the post at the top. interesting discussion of mcsame’s press teflon. so, question is what framing gets the teflon to rub off? I don’t think tarnishing the war hero will do it. and attacking integrity probably doesn’t either. Maybe just framing him as old and confused …

For some reason I double posted. Sorry.

A commenter at TPM made an interesting observation about McCain and his personality.

The guy — who has been watching and fighting against McCain for years — basically said that McCain has the personality of a Navy pilot, which is to say he is focused like a laser on tactics and maneuvering and has little grasp of overall strategy, nor does he want it; and that is coupled with a total enthrallment of his own rightness.

The guy’s point was — the skills of instant two-step-ahead (but no more) thinking and total faith in one’s decision-making are what keep you alive in a cockpit, but it doesn’t serve you well in politics (or leadership). It leads to what Josh was noting – an inability to grasp strategy or nuance, and a general lack of self-awareness that comes from self-questioning.

The closest parallel was Duke Cunningham, he said. Which I thought was kind of funny — McCain is clearly brighter and substantially less criminal that Duke. But they are/were both short-term thinkers absolutely convinced of their own rightness. Maybe it *is* a pilot thing.

FWIW.

8.7 million in debt? Hmm not being able to deal with your campaign economic issues is not condusive to building an image of an effective leader (esp. given the economic situation we are now in as a country)

Thank you.
McCain being Navy, this would all but end his career then.

QuakerGirl
“McCain’s record is that it was forty years ago…”
You are so right in wanting to deal with what happened between then and now, unfortunately, and I only got a glimpse of his new ad, but there it was, McCain lying in a prison bed as a captive of NVN.
Military records are important in the dialog, even though we should be talking about the economy, Iraq/Afghanistan, his “Bomb, Bomb Iran…” comments,Lobbyists etc. JMHO.

“I am a war criminal,” McCain said on “60 Minutes” in 1997. “I bombed innocent women and children.” Although it came too late to save the Vietnamese he’d killed 30 years earlier, it was a brave statement. Nevertheless, he smiles agreeably as he hears himself described as a “war hero” as he arrives at rallies in a bus marked “No Surrender.”

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/12676

All the research I’ve done says five plane accidents. Three he caused, one was the result of another landing aircraft and the final one was when he was shot down by the Vietnamese and taken prisoner.

southern says in part at 73–” Wonder if Billy “The Grin” Kristol has ever studied the French in Algeria. Probably put his own spin on it and dismiss it.”

by lookin’ at who his ’friends’ are, i don’t think he has…….

http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/by…..st=william

and funny thing, southern, for us it’s all about the oil, but for them, i don’t think it is.

but they know it is for us. the one thing they have to leverage.

and not matter which way we come back to ’attack’ to get it, militarily or politically, they won’t give it ’over’.

that’s what makes it so ironic.

i don’t see what options bush/cheney have left to try after this latest, they built up the army to use it to take control over the last group that is keeping them from what they want, the oil laws, and it blew up in their faces…..so, they tried the parliament yesterday, no go…….

what’s left to try?

bbl, have to run a quick errand.

I’m not familiar with Risner. When I was in the USAF, stationed in Hawaii, there were a couple of former POWs at HqPACAF at the O6 level, including the then PACAF Comptroller (I was in the accounting office). I knew they got promoted on schedule while in captivity but it did seem that most of them stalled at bird level, for whatever reason.

http://www.middle-east-online……/?id=25120

I wouldn’t worry too much about military service credentials.
In 92, 96, 00 and 04 the guy with the better military record got beat.

Stockdale was also the highest ranking naval officer held as a prisoner of war in Vietnam. That would have made is rise a bit easier.

Give me a break, you can’t remember everything with regards to your family history that has been passed down to you. We have that in my family as well and the true story has been blurred a bit but that is certainly not comparable to the whopper that Hillary is passing around

I am off to aqua therapy, but the morning’s news and blog posts are up, if you’re interested: Reality Based News Feed

I think we’d better wake people up.
There seem to be some people who’re looking for a strong Daddy to tell them a story and assure them it’s going to be all right. Tough for a while maybe, but all right.
Where is that “strong Daddy” when you have no house anymore, no job, hurting teeth, no insurance? When your kids are sent back 3 and 4 and 5 times to Iraq?
Is that the f-ing American dream?
Daddy McWarbucks gonna make it all right?

How about “The Manchurian Surrogate” and “The Flip Flop Express.”

There’s no need to attack McCain’s positives, that is a Rovian strategy that only worked whent they could also cheat in states like Ohio and Florida.

McCain has more than ehough bona fide negatives to give us all the fodder we need. And like all Repyublican Rovians, they will swiftboat any Dem, but cry foul if anyone questions McCain’s patriotism or his trustworthiness.

This whole media made image of Mccain a a straight-shooter ignores some real history, particularly his marital “story”, and his rank chameleonism. Personally, the marital thing isn’t an issue with me, but his pandering, and the way the media has enabled him to slide on his “I voted FOR it before I voted AGAINST it” habit. McCain has put a whole new meaning on the Janus legend.

If he picks Romney for his VP, we can call them Flip and Flop.

Like I said, we don’t need to question McCain’s qualities, we just need to remind everyone of his faults. The balance weighs heavily against him, if people get a chance to see the two Johnnies, side by side, one smiling and agreeable, the other angry as a wasp.

http://findarticles.com/p/arti…..i_61361646

Quakergirl, you are correct. Here is a good synopsis of McCain’s flying accidents.

lol, that’s a good one.

How about “The Manchurian Surrogate” and “The Flip Flop Express.”

Makes me laugh anyways.

Insane McSame is my favorite.

Good luck TexBetsy

Getting shot down in combat is not an “airplane accident”.

right on ….hehehe Flip flop express

Columbus Dispatch evidently carrying out smear campaign against Democratic Sec of State Jennifer Brunner.

“John McCain,” says another Navy pilot and acquaintance of that era, “was the kind of guy you wanted to room with — not fly with. He was reckless, and that’s critical when you start thinking about who’s going to be the president,” The old pilot laughs, and then continues: “But the Navy accident rate was cut in half the day John McCain was shot down.”

On a more serious note, however, there has been no discussion of what actions were or were not taken in dealing with McCain after each of the aircraft losses. Neither McCain’s senatorial nor campaign offices returned Insight’s calls on these matters. But a Navy insider notes that “after every such incident an inquiry is conducted to conclude the cause of the crash. If it were anyone other than the admiral’s son, his wings would have been pulled. But that’s where that kind of father comes in handy.”

From the article Hackworth linked to @94.

I like that one too…

And I can find you articles that say John Kerry was a coward and a traitor.

thanks for the link, i had no idea that he had these incidences. Certainly the MSM isn’t going to take a critical look at his time in the miliatary as to do so would be to attack a war hero *sigh*

That caught my eye, too. Too bad they didn’t get that guy’s name. He could start a 527 called Navy Pilot Veterans For Truth.

EPU’s from JoFish March 29th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
168
Okay, here’s the thing about McCain… he’s not a hero for getting shot down, and whatever he did while he was a prisoner while honorable was what he needed to do to survive, which is what’s taught at the SERE schools based in part on what happened to prisoners from WWII, Korea and Vietnam. I met McCain in Jacksonville at NAS Cecil Field when I was an Ensign and he seemed like a genuinely nice guy for someone who had gone through his experiences, not bitter or malevolent (well, then anyhow). I had the chance to meet (and work with) other men who shared McCain’s fate in Hanoi over my succeeding years on active duty and none of them ever made a big deal of their captivity or used it as a cudgel on the heads of anyone they knew/worked with as McCain has done in recent years (oooh, I’m soooo patriotic). I know that I have said this here before, but looking at what he’s done he fares no better than most sitting Senators and perhaps even a bit worse… he survived the Keating Five scandal somehow, and has not given up his love o’lobbyists and their money no matter how he doth protest.

Not to take anything away from the guy, but his capture was accidental, not something he sought out except by virtue of flying over North Vietnam and he shared that risk with every other Vietnam-era aviator that flew those missions. No one ever launched with the intent of getting shot down.

Getting tortured by the Vietnamese aside (and what lesson did that teach him?) thanks for the MCA Act, Senator. His service was no more remarkable than what John Kerry endured as a Brown Water sailor who earned a Silver Star for remarkable courage under direct enemy fire and had the lives of his crew in his hands for the entire time he was Skipper of that boat. Somehow Kerry’s accomplishments were diminshed not because of what he did, but because of his politics much like what happened to another remarkable Democrat who also endured the unendurable, flying and completing all his missions over Germany in WWII as a bomber pilot. Who? George McGovern, someone who to this day the Chickenhawk Wingnuts deride as a pantywaist liberal DFH. I could go on and on with examples like Dan Inouye and Bob Kerrey but no, St. John McVain is a “war hero”, for being a POW. If you couch it in those exact terms, the only two heros repatraited from the Hanoi camps were Admiral James Stockdale and a guy most of you never heard of Doug Hegdahl, an enlisted sailor who was also caputured accidentally.

McCain was a valiant sailor, and a good man. Now he’s a politician using his media-burnished military credentials to try to achieve the power that has eluded him since Karl Rove and Preznit Bunnypants slandered him in 2000. What he’ll do with that power is not a guess, and it scares the hell out of me. We don’t need Jack D. Ripper with his finger on the button.

JoFish March 29th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
172
In response to smartlady @ 170
Not really fair, he damn near died in that accident and watched his squadron-mate get killed when that Zuni hit the A4 next to him. His escape was purely serendipitous. The Forrestal disaster was a neither pretty nor the result of anything other than poor ordinance handling procedures, which were changed after the accident. All the rest of that stuff is pure bullshit and not worthy of spreading.

Raven March 29th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
175
In response to JoFish @ 172
I stand with you Jo. I am really sick of this bullshit, it’s the same thing they tried to pull on Kerry and wrong is wrong. It’s nice to have someone else try to explain this here, and much better than I do. I guess it’s harder for a dumb ass dogface huh?

Reply
neurophius March 29th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
176
John McCain:
Worse Than Bush

[Mod Note; edited to reduce some extraneous details.]

Sorry MOd’s I didn’t mean to paste all that.

Take a little closer look before you buy into this.

Hiya, pups–can we start with Russet faux-framing his questions this morning as wiretaps that started after 9/11?

Job 1 re the media will be to fact-check their questions.

Job 1 re McCain is Straight Talk vs. Double-talk. I personally wouldn’t touch the military stuff at all.

Omigawd, I took responsibility for an opinion. My not yet started career as a pundit/media person/politician/consultant/lobbyist is over before it began….

Back to Real Life. Ciao for now….

Even when there might be game in the field, sometimes the dogs just won’t hunt.
I think this is one of those instances.

thanks for posting that, raven. It sums up exactly how this is being played out and is going to be played out from McCain’s side and the MSM

thanks, but I’m not buying into anything. i understand fully how this is playing out and will continue to do so but I appreciate any info that may give us a clearer pic of who this man really is

This article didn’t claim McCain was a traitor or coward, just that he wasn’t a very good pilot. And with a father and grandfather as admirals, he didn’t have to be.

good

Oh, thanks for clearing that up because you know that was the point I was making don’t you?

Well said.

1watt

thanks for the link

margot at 100-

great article, shows the highjinx start at the local level…….

one of the fundraisers for bush in dayton ohio the other night was convicted of laundering money, to support franklin county auditor……….in ’98. he and damschroder are buddies, i bet.

these clowns just won’t leave the ring.

i kept thinking, for a republican, bruner sure is trying to meet in the middle! i had her confused with the auditor!

I pick Russ Warner in the CA 26th CD to defeat the hell out of David “Pantywaist” Dreier. Who’s with me?