George Bush is quite happy with his buddy Maliki:
It was a very positive moment in the development of a sovereign nation that is willing to take on elements that believe they are beyond the law," Bush said. …"I understand people here want us to leave, regardless of the situation, but that will not happen so long as I’m Commander in Chief.
I would say this is a defining moment in the history of a free Iraq…
And one of the early questions I had to the Prime Minister was would he be willing to confront criminal elements, whether they be Shia or Sunni? … And his answer was, yes, sir, I will. And I said, well, you’ll have our support if that’s the case, if you believe in evenhanded justice. And his decision to move into Basra shows evenhanded justice, shows he’s willing to go after those who believe they’re outside the law.
This is a test and a moment for the Iraqi government… it is a necessary part of the development of a free society.
the Red Crescent, the IOM, and UNICEF are warning that the situation has deteriorated drastically. The international federation of Red CRoss/Cresecent say that the main problem is that they are running out of fule to get food to trapped civilians and that ambulances and relief convoys are being attacked. Yesterday the Basah hospitals manager for the city appealed urgently for emergency suppilies of medicines and surgical supplies he confirmed that the hospitals could not cope and said the system was close to collapse. He confirmed also that ambulances has been directly fired at.
Muqtada Al Sadr had a response:
The main Sadrist spokesman al-Obeidi has said that the GZG government “have closed the doors to dialogue for a peaceful resolution of the crisis in Basrah.” He said that al Sadr has issued a statement saying that Bush’s statements on the crisis provide legitimate legal grounds for the Mahdi army and the Sadrist current to transform their role from calling for peaceful mediation of the crisis to the defender of the rights of the people and to protect innocent civilians.
Sadrists also confirmed a delegation of the Central Bureau of the Sadrist office in Najaf visited Grand Ayatollah Al-Sistani and discussed with him developments in the security situation in Basra. Sistani expressed displeasure of the deteriorating performance of the government in the areas of security and economy.
Al-Sadr also gave an interview to Al Jazeera, his first public appearance in 10 months:
In the interview, al-Sadr said the militia’s "strategic objective" was "the liberation of Iraq from the occupier," meaning the Americans. He outlined the aims of his political movement, saying he wants to rid Iraq of sectarian politics, prevent its breakup and create an Islamic society.
Mahdi Army commanders say their militia has been taking delivery of arms and cash from Iran, but al-Sadr sought to distance himself from the Iranians, saying he has recently told Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khameini, that he did not approve of the "political and military interests" that Tehran pursued in Iraq.
Firepups should note that al-Obeidi does not speak except at Sadr’s request. He is making clear that the Sadrists are now given permission to "defend" and "protect" their fellow Iraqis from the occupation forces and from Maliki’s attacks. The comments from Grand Ayatollah Sistani is at minimum a declaration that the religious leadership will take a hands off approach to what comes next and comes close to being a de facto approval of al Sadr’s call for resistance to any who attack the rights and security of Iraqis.
Given that the Sadrists have now demonstrated their effectiveness in holding off – and damaging Maliki’s forces in Basra and that large numbers of government forces have defected to join Sadr, this is very bad news for American forces (and British and others) in the region.
Pat Lang provides some additional background – along with his continued reminders about US supply lines in the South (the Colonel thought US forces would "shift the Main Supply Route (MSR) to the west (Nasiriyah) if the Basra area becomes too obstructed." but "Reuters reported from Al-Nasiriyah that Al-Mahdi Army fighters loyal to Al-Sadr took over the center of that city. The correspondent said he could see groups of al-Sadr’s fighters roaming the streets with machine guns and rocket-propelled grenade launchers. Militants have also reportedly taken control of the town of Shatra about 40 kilometers north of Al-Nasiriyah):
My problem with the present course of events is the ruthlessness of the propaganda campaign being successfully waged by the Bush Administration. The president has succeeded in "framing" the discussion in such a way that Maliki and his assembly of Badr Corps militias are represented as being the equivalent of George Washington suppressing the Whiskey Rebellion. The noble Maliki is portrayed as motivated by a selfless desire for "national" unity. The MSM has re-transmitted that idea without serious question.
The Colonel also points to reports that:
Already at the Basra air base, I can reveal, the British subsidiary of U.S. construction giant KBR is building four huge dining facilities – known to the American army as DFACs. These are capable of feeding 4,000 men and suggest that the U.S. Army is contemplating a massive deployment to southern Iraq – including a major presence inside Basra itself. Daily Mail
As the video above shows, the Green Zone is no longer a safe zone. Plans to further entrench US troops in the South at the same time that al Sadr has lost all patience with the occupation and Cheney’s oil pals Maliki and Hakim will of course be announced as another sign the surge is working.
Working for who?
h/t Du and TexBetsy
Steve Soto at Left Coaster has more.
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Siun!
“Bush said. …”I understand people here want us to leave, regardless of the situation, but that will not happen so long as I’m Commander in Chief.”
Is Bush saying that regardless of the situation, we will not leave?
Sounds like it Neuro …
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/hom…..32013.html
Siun! I saw your headline posted and thought the defining moment might be St. John McVain taking another shopping trip to buy yet another magic carpet in Baghdad with his BFFs Joe and Lindsay. An a company of infantry, a squadoron of Apaches and platoon of Bradleys. You know, an intimate shopping trip with a bunch of close personal friends.
I support all oppressed and occupied peoples.
Lahoma
Siun, I think I’ve seen that footage before; last year when the ammo dump at camp falcon or where-ever blew-up.
McCain will be wearing the war around his neck. Obama will crush him. Clinton might beat him too, but who cares?
I suspect even St John and his posse could not shop in Baghdad today … then again, Baghdad residents are under curfew which has not been extended “indefinitely” which means people will not be able to get water, bread, fuel for generators … or medical care (and US roadblocks have been reported in various sources to block attempts to get to medical treatment as they did when Ali died).
Was it? the video was posted today from a military source and warnings seem to suggest it’s real … but any more info would be very useful indeed!
But the Surge IS working. John McCain said so, and he doesn’t care what anyone else says.
Siun!!!!
I read the transcipt of Fucktard’s speech on Thursday in Dayton and got so pissed.
Last Sunday I told you i had a question but forgot it. I remembered.
Another great post. Again, such a HUGE issue this war, and getting short shrift from the press. But that’s not new. Been the story of the whole war.
I’ll note that there’s some question about the video … thanks Felix!
All of which leads me to the one question… which US Government Contractor was responsible for delivering the Candy and Rose Petals again? I think they missed their delivery or never got the memo about getting the contract.
It sure seems that the supplies of said items are low in ol’Baghdad tonight.
People of color in the Middle East. And everywhere. Rise up.
Lahoma
Good evening, Lahoma. And kiddo.
I was just checking out the WaPo, and noticed their story on this mess. The main byline goes to Sholnn Freeman, and at the end they note “Special correspondents Aahad Ali in Basra, Naseer Nouri, Zaid Sabah, K.I. Ibrahim in Baghdad and Saad Sarhan in Najaf contributed to this report.”
I’ve got tremendous respect for the members of the media who try to report in the middle of a war, and the fact that the WaPo is using various local folks to cover various Iraqi cities speaks volumes about the safety of non-Iraqis these days.
Thanks for keeping us posted on all this, Siun — as discouraging and devastating as the continued violence is.
If only Pelosi were “willing to take on elements that believe they are beyond the law“, then our nightmare would be closer to being over.
I occasionally stroll over to Malkin’s place. She tries to discredit every story to which a local contributes. These liberal papers only use people who hate us, doncha know?
Nodding .. the MSM would have no coverage at all without the Iraqis who report for them. It’s good to see their work credited.
I was speaking with Du today and his take was that Al Sadr’s statement moved us into a whole new realm … I would say what idiots the GZG and the US to poke him into this battle. Local nationalist forces tend to win when they decide to kick out occupiers.
Hello dear friend.
L.
Effin-A right. I will never understand (or forgive) her failure to do just that. Her “bipartisan” get-along bullshit in 2006 was the perhaps the biggest failure of Congressional leadership in the history of the Republic. Bipartisanship is just political barebacking without the satisfaction of a smoke after getting screwed.
You stroll around in some seriously strange neighborhoods, BFL.
The MSM is giving a free pass to McCain on Iraq.
Lahoma
I posted this in an earlier thread, but, it is extremely heartening to see this…
42 Democrats Vow a Drawdown in Iraq If They Win Seats
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..63_pf.html
Aloha, Lahoma! Nice to see ya again! *g*
Really.
Tis is what Bush siad in his specch that really got me perturbed. Speaking about the Iraqi people — he could have been talking about Americans too and how we feel about him:
In other words, people have stepped up and said, We’re sick and tired of our families having to live in violence. We can’t stand the thought of people who murder the innocent to achieve political objectives and we intend to do something about it, and they have.
Unmitigated gall, to use one of my mom’s favorite expressions.
I wish more americans had “stepped up.” Especially Pelosi, et al. And I hope enouigh americans “step up” in November.
The WaPo actually does a pretty good job in working with local stringers and folks on contract. I recall hearing a radio interview (NPR?) with one of the US reporters who had just returned from a tour of duty in Iraq, and he shared how he worked with the locals to get decent coverage of the stories. In more than a few case, the local reporters asked NOT to get any specific mention in the WaPo, so as not to endanger themselves and their families.
The way this reporter told the story made his admiration for his Iraqi colleagues crystal clear.
One thing Iraq does accomplish. It overshadows what goes on in Gaza.
Lahoma
Gee, I dunno, Lahoma… Timmeh said just the other day that he knows for a fact that St. McVain’s poopie don’t stink. What else do you need to know?
;~P
Hello dear person.
L.
Hey, BFL. Good to hear from you. I’ve been freezing my butt off this week in Illinois and can’t wait to get back home and warm up.
You really have to wonder if Bush ever will have even a small bit of reality invade his brain. The stuff coming out of him these days is truly deranged.
I cringe to think what he will do if Iraq continues to spiral out of control the way it appears to be headed.
My crystal balls say:
The Iraqi forces -te ones who don’t go over to Sadr or just run away-will get their asses kicked and the army or governmemnt will negotiate a cease fire or truce and Bush will declare a job well done. Progress, ya know.
Or we’ll send in heavy duty shit and bomb Basra to the stone age.
Speaking of on the ground journalists, here’s what Chris Wallace has to say (via Think Progress):
Siun, Thank you so much for taking time out to help sort this all out for/with us. I am mortified! GZG helicopters shot down and reports of mutiny by Malikis militia. While we the US bomb more civilians all over the country and ramp up our own brutality in
PalestineSadr city.It’s almost impossible to keep up with everything.
My new slogan: Impeach Bush and Cheney even on nights and Sundays! Get these mad men out of our oval office now!
howdy Lahoma!
and, i think, many other things – for example, the corruption and outright theft.
Yep .. there are amazing stories in the book we had for Book Salon a while back …Reporting Iraq … about the reliance on local reporters. That book remains worth reading though I wish they had interviewed more non-western reporters.
And for us to understand what’s going on, we really need to look to sources outside the US.
Good evening our friend.
L.
Wow, I don’t know what to say. That liveleak vid is powerful stuff. Get our troops the F outta there!
How he could ever say:
We can’t stand the thought of people who murder the innocent to achieve political objectives
when that’s excatly how he got re-elected and ran his sadministration thereafter is beyond me.
I’m Ok. We’re having some good weather here. Oh. And Wrestlemania 2008 is in Orlando tomorrow. 70,000 yahoos are expected. $2,000 for a ringside seat. Alot of peoppe from outta town. The Shitrus Bowl is not gonna be what they had in mind when they think about Orlando.
Why you in Illinois?
Troops
Home
Now
We’re already bombing heavily in Basra … and Sadr City – one report of many:
AP Top News at 8:40 a.m. EDT
13 hours ago
BAGHDAD (AP) — A U.S. warplane strafed a house in the southern city of Basra, killing eight civilians, including two women and a child, Iraqi police said Saturday. The U.S. military had no immediate comment on the report, which came a day after the first American airstrikes were launched in Basra during a week-old offensive against militant followers of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
How true! A sad state of affairs…! 8-(
Siun, do you believe Maliki initiated this war against Sadr’s Mahdi army as an attempt to suppress his political opponents before an upcoming election?
Somebody needs to take the can opener away from Chimpy, we’re knee deep in worms already.
Idiot.
I read somewhere today (maybe juan Coles place) KBR is building several multi thousand seat dinning halls in basra.. Suggesting the Green Zone may be preparing to
cut and runabandon Baghdad.If I hear one more person say “we can’t withdraw percipitously from Iraq” i’m gonna puke. Heard another person say it today.
Hope you are having a great Saturday evening, selize.
L.
I have thought about Ali all day today. Finally sent DiFi an e-mail and told her about him. Small hope of it doing any good but I am so angry.
Video is old, you guys – 2004 or 2005……
Whispered straight from Darth’s lips…
Absolutely … and I consider the timing just after Cheney went and visited Maliki and Hakim (oil family and head of the SIIC) pretty conclusive. We made a deal with Hakim (and Maliki but he’s less powerful) to get approval of provincial elections with the understanding they could go after Sadr to prevent his movement and allies winning.
but why basra? how is that any safer…. other than, i suppose, closer to an exit?
I’d be interested in knowing how the press in the EU and around the world is reporting the story in Southern Iraq? Is the world community seeing this as a nationalist uprising against the allies of the U.S. occupation? The propaganda coming out of W is…when is he going back to Texas?
Not yet. The Bush family is just about ready to serve in Bush’s war, aren’t they?
We support TSF on this. Good evening. You are a warrior.
Lahoma
Oil?
Twain .. thanks for writing about Ali. I never met him obviously but have a photo of him next to my photos of my kids … and it hurts. I can’t imagine how hard it is for Mohammed and his family and the Guides team.
Yeah. And guys like Chris Wallace will talk it up as a sign of maturation by the iraqi governmemt.
But look, this is what Bush said about this Basra thing:
It also shows the progress the Iraqi security forces have made during the surge. Iraqi forces planned this operation and they deployed substantial extra forces for it. They’re leading the operation. Prime Minister Maliki has travelled to Basra to oversee it firsthand.
No, it also shows the friggin’ place is in chaos. If this is the “progress” ther Iraqi security forces made during the Surge, more evidence that the Surge failed.
As far as them “leading the operation” it sounds to me as if they got a whuppin’ put on ‘em and wentryin’ to Uncle sam to do their fightin’ for ‘em.
I think it will be option B.
We are gonna bomb Basra until it is wiped off the map – then celebrate how we brought peace to the
rubbleer, “city”.Pat Lang writes about it … as well (link above) … my guess is that when the Brits showed that they had no intention of “surging” in the South, it became clear we would move in … and it’s the key oil area and port …
when Hakim’s crew had more power there, we were less worried … now the folks who want the occupiers out are in control … hmmm
I hope this Basra clusterfuck doesn’t give the “no precipitous withdrawal” folks more ammunition, coming as it does on the heels of the British drawdown from that city.
I want to hear both our Democrats talk about “no residual troops.” I hope Richardson has that impact on Obama. We need our DeeCee leadership to sign on to The Responsible Plan, and get the candidates to do the same.
It’s way past time to end this. And I don’t need to hear any more debates over who was against it, or who voted to authorize it. Just end it, people, or take responsibility for continuing it.
Pelosi, I’m looking at you. Time to honor the request for votes to defund.
That’s along the lines of this nugget…
As the voiceover on the video says:
That just about says it all.
Siun, uyou know the question I remembered? I’ll hold it ’til anoter time. This is important stuff and like you say a defining moment.
Germany’s Der Speigel [English translation at the link] describes the recent visit of a German parliamentary delegation to the Green Zone . . . it’s not a pretty picture.
But that’s good news for the Republicans, right? . . .
Then again, maybe not.
feel free to ask … I’ll try to answer if I can
Daniel Schorr said today that there is no civil war going on today in Iraq. It is a Shia-on-Shia power struggle. I thought that was something we need to hear. And it also occurred to me that Iraq is very much like our adventure in Vietnam except the US has decided to give up on the South Vietnamese (by analogy, the Sunnis) and join forces against Ho Chi Minh (by analogy, anyone who was loyal to Communism, but not Ho’s particular brand). Of course, such a stupid set of moves in Vietnam could only have happened if George Bush had been around to make matters worse. We are so lucky to have him demonstrate how he and his acolyte McCain can go about dealing with today’s threats in a post-Vietnam world.
A Civil War Iraq Can’t Win
The Americans not only need to watch of for Sadr Shiites, but also the Sunni and Kurds.
Killing large numbers of people always seems to be good news for george W. Bush.
-G
The trick with that is Bush is already out on the limb saying this is an Iraqi operation. So “we” can’t be the ones making the peace without conceding that the Iraqi army was an utter failure. This one is gonna be tough to spin. Hope Dana gets to tell us all about it on Monday.
Every man, woman or child who perishes in Iraq as a result of the tyranny of George W. Bush is a “defining moment” in the history of Iraq. And the United States.
Lahoma
Sports fans, those ain’t no mortars.
I gather somebody hit the ammo dump and the ordnance was cooking off.
It’s not just Sadr City and the GZ in Baghdad. Friday reports:
As if the Sunnis aren’t simply waiting, now unpaid in their Awakening Councils, for this Shia-on-Shia power struggle to weaken both sides. Daniel Schorr is mistaken if he thinks a civil war need have only two sides, and that those sides need be different sects.
Another westerner oblivious to the facts on the ground. I count myself among them, but then I don’t issue proclamations about “no civil war going on in Iraq.” I’m stupid and ignorant about Iraq, but I consider myself wiser than those who claim expertise. Few Americans have any, when it comes to Iraq.
Iraqi Army = ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam) = Worthless
Thanks, Gen. Petraeus
Of course to these goopers, we only lost Vietnam because the DFH made us cut and run.
Since when is two different groups of people from the same country fighting for power not considered a civil war?
-G
Bush loves death. It’s like he’s collecting souls for slaves in his afterlife. The Bush Wing of Hell will be crowded indeed.
Somethin, that looks like willie peter. . .guy said Kirkuk.
Sounds like Tet (apologies to Raven and others).
Siun, sorry for taking so long to respond. dinner called! But yes, that video is at least a year old but not as old a wtlloyd at#50 says. I recall seeing last year right after an ammo dump got rocketed. Maybe late ‘06. Now to read your post.
I heard that … I think the one thing to remember – and Al Sadr spoke of this to Al Jazeera … is that Al Sadr does not see this as a “sectarian” struggle and has in fact allied with groups like the Association of Muslim Scholars who are Sunni nationalists. Note Sadr’s comment “He outlined the aims of his political movement, saying he wants to rid Iraq of sectarian politics, prevent its breakup and create an Islamic society.“
And more importantly, the meeting I mentioned the other day:
I agree this is the most likely explanation. I’m curious as to why Bush/Cheney would want to spark this round of violence, though, because it directly counters their “the surge is working” propaganda. Why didn’t they instead try to kick the problems down the road a bit in order to keep things quiet? Did they think a Sadr uprising was about to happen anyway?
I think Schorr meant the immediate struggle between Maliki and Sadr. I agree there are more sides to this entire picture, but the main thing we see today is Shia-on-Shia.
Tne speech was such bullshit. He said we were involved in an “ideological struggle.” What ideology are we struggling against? Get-the-fuck-outta-my-country-ism? We’ll never beat that.
That’s just another war where a Bush just couldn’t quite work it into the schedule to serve. But they are really pro military. Really.
It is time for Pelosi to see how quickly a congress can impeach a president and vice-president. These guys are fu*kin crazy and their stratergies aren’t working.
It looks more like the famous shot of the Khe Sahn Ammo Dump
When there are five groups, apparently.
And I think Sadr is trying hard to make it clear (er ) that he is the voice of Shia Iraq and nobody else. The Sunni may wait, but I think they are outnumbered. Sadr is waiting for reinforcements too–maybe from Iran, maybe native. But he seems to think he can move from being General Giap to Ho’s seat.
hi siun, thanks for your information and caring soul.
noone is mentioning this part-
i keep thinking how ironic that a VERY small number of brits were just there, ’holding’ the entire region, twas all calmed down, that’s why they pulled out to the airport…….everything aok…….
now all of a sudden, maliki had to invade with the iraqi army, there’s so many of the ’enemy’ that we’re doing airstrikes cuz it’s so ’infiltrated’……
questions questions questions
that noone is asking.
Which makes Shorr’s proclamations nonsense.
By his logic the Christians in Union fighting the Christians in the Confederation wasn’t a civil war.
-G
Which made Lebanon in the 70’s and 80’s a fracas I gather.
-G
Bush doesn’t like McCain getting all the spotlight for the war?
I am sure you know the situation better than I. I just react to things on their face. I don’t think Sadr is a pious Islamic practitioner. I think he is a warlord with a pious cloak.
I distinctly remember this video from when the Camp Falcon ammo dump went off last year or whenever.
WHo you callin a Ho? :)
Peterr, thanks for the link and excerpt!
Hey Raven … I can’t verify the video … just that it appeared today and the warnings heard in the background sound like warning to take cover … we know there have been nultiple attacks on the Green Zone with damage and some casualties …
so if not from GZ, at least “representative” of what folks may be seeing? I bow to our military experts here
Yea, Suin was careful with the disclaimer. I’f they are walking shit in on you you most certainly get your ass in the bunker if you have one handy.
You’re right. Here’s a linky.
Gotcha, I knew dat.
Some reports seem to suggest Mahdi troops are stealing and seizing quite a bit of weapons this week. Pretty easy to do when you wipe out supply lines between Central Iraq and Basra and other troops commit mutiny.
Maybe all this started because Bush knows that maybe Sadr and the other tribal leaders can forge a settlement in his country, but he is not a yes man to the Americans. And of course there couldn’t be a settlement on the oil sharing revenues. You know that is one of the 18 points the Maliki Gobenment was supposed to pass so foren investers could come in there and produce there oil and give them a pittance for it. Maybe if the fighting stopped the displaced people, the educators could come back home.
Man what a mess Bush has made of this. And I agree, they need to be impeached.
Not only doesn’t it stink, it smells like violets. Beatification is probably next.
;)
Ho ho ho!
Bush is going to strut around as Supreme Victorious Commander Bush for the rest of his life no matter what happens in Iraq.
Ha. Ha.
I am not a political analyst of any repute. In an era when we are supposedly well connected to the world, we seem to know damn little for a fact in Iraq. We are all guessing. Dan Schorr is guessing too. The only thing we are certain of is G Bush’s delusions of royalty and the royal screwing is giving America (after he screws Iraw of course). So I guess we are Ho’s by default.
Good catch … I’ll adjust the disclaimer to note that. Thank you all!
This is sounding like the beginning of the end for Maliki.
-G
BFL: I’m at a horse show for my kids. Had to run back to the hotel from the horse facility. Dang cold here.
I’m hoping there is a lot of pushback in the press and on the streets for the next dog and pony show from Petraeus and Crocker. Gonna be a lot harder for them to justify what they’re doing at this point.
We don’t know jack.
Just like Saddam.
Stinking tarheels.
I just worry that so many americans are such suckers for the “victory” “honor” stuff, they just won’t do the right thing. But i hope you’re right. get back here asap.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..93837.html
i found this today, added it to my files.
Yes, I am catching up on the military situation in bits and pieces. I read the supply lines are next to be cut (if we can properly anticipate the tactics of a garden variety insurgent) and that the South is a long way from the Citadel Green Zone. I am wondering where Iraqi troops loyal to Maliki actually live. Do they have their own barracks inside or near US fortress/strongholds, or do they reside well outside? It is one thing for Americans to depend on armored columns and helos to ferry the conflict to the South; it is another thing to expect Iraqi’s to do this verywell, even with US help. So I expect the dining hall expansion program mentioned above is on the mark. There will be no pause. There will be an escalation.
Greg … there was a report today on the news site that the Mahdi Army uses are it’s outlet … that talked about Maliki (translation from GorillasGuides):
Yeah, funny how they forget that “honor” requires them to do the right thing.
Since when?
my link at 117
title didn’t post
who is the iraqi army?
breaks it down.
Isn’t this the way Kabal fell when the Soviets were forced out?
Guess I have a funny idea of what honor means. ;^)
Dude … keep an eye on Pat Lang’s site (linked in post) on these issues – he has been screaming about the supply lines for a long time (as was markfromireland at Gorillas about 2 yrs ago)
Petraeus is – amongst other things – incompetent to not face those issues.
Dmac … thanks for the Cenk link … I happen to disagree with his assumption that Maliki did this on his own (as if) but a lot of what he says is spot on.
Dude … it does have a familiar look, eh?
Siun,
Thanks for the link references.
I’m adding a link to a piece Steve Soto just did as well …
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/012237.php
One MORE thing about that speech that pissed me off. Bush said:
Here’s what one scholar and critic of the war recently said. “No one can spend some 10 days visiting the battlefields in Iraq without seeing major progress in every area. If the United States provides sustained support to the Iraqi government in security, governance and development, there is now a very real chance that Iraq will emerge as a secure and stable state.”
Whao was that masked scaholar and critic-of-the -war? His name is Anthony Cordesman. Never heard of him. He’s got a pretty full CV. Veeerrrry impressive. Ooooo. Lookie.
Cordesman formerly served as national security assistant to Senator John McCain of the Senate Armed Services Committee
Pretty tough critic, huh?
yeah siun, i forgot that part was in there. i agree. kept it to send to people for the breakdown.
you posted one the other day, wed or thurs, the al-hakim thread, that said the rest of the breakdown/relationships, i saved this one to accentuate that thread when i send them to people so they can learn who is who in this fight.
If I may project my Vientam-metaphor meanderings a little more:
If I were a hardened Vietnam veteran with an axe to grind and who may have learned nothing at all from the experience—say, John McCain—I would say now is the time to carpet bomb Basra and specifically go after Sadr to make an example of him. Well, I might not say it out loud in the middle of a presidential campaign where I am supposed to appear “sane”, but I would certainly be promoting the idea to all my disaffected friends in the military and throughout the military industrial complex. I would be out there telling people “We need to get this Vietnam right!”
Did I just hear you guys groan?
It is like clockwork -as soon as a Cheney Bush operation -any operation, any program, any policy, – anywhere, regarding anything at all (national security, economics, financial system, foreign affairs), anytime, is pumped up as a success, it immediately all falls apart and everyday ordinary people get destroyed.
The US population is under such an intense and sustained propaganda campaign that most will not how false the propaganda is unless they are willing to log on and read some blogs or the English language foreign press. But they can see that everything Cheney Bush does turns into a tragic bloody life destroying mess. I hope that will be enough. And I hope the turn around time from McCain’s own recent propaganda nonsense to its falsification has been quick enough so that his new rationales for being wrong again will not stick, no matter how the corporate media filters and pretties it up.
I canot believe the Cheney Bush administration is so deluded and ignorant of even the simplest common sense reasoning. They very clearly revealed their intentions, and announced who was in and who was out in Iraq months ago. It was obviously not acceptable to the Sunni Awakening gang or the Mahdi people. So, just a matter of time until the ‘outs’ started making their moves and reacting.
I think the Pat Lang post is very important to read. He asks a good question -If the Iraqi army is really a national force, where are the Kurds and Sunnis in the operations around Basra? Seems like they are needed, since the initial move against the Mahdi did not work out well. But where are they?
None one really knows the full story behind these tragic events. But we know enough to see that the Cheney-Bush-McCain line is nonsense. And so far, evidence is that this the newest development in ongoing Iraqi civial strife, not a unified government action against terrorists, or extremist or rebels.
didn’t some guy above say the footage was from 2004? did he mean that footage at the top of this post that says it’s 2006? what’s up with that/him? was he talking about different footage?
Some commmenters here seem to suggest that a Mahdi move against the Coalition supply lines is next. That will come sooner or later. I would hope that it would come later rather than sooner. Seems like the al Sadr people would have their hands full dealing with the Maliki faction. But you never know.
Thanks Siun.
I am sure that Cheney had a litany of treachery on his intinerary.
It appears US pressure made Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Lebanon snub Syria’s latest summit.
Khaddaffy had a tirade and told everyone that they were next on Bush’s hit list.
-G
KevinP found a link that seemed more reputable than mine – dated 2006 which seemed to be the agreed date of folks above .. I can change again if someone has better info … tempted to remove it altogether but it does suggest what is triggered this week I think
Siun, BBC has some links to some recent footage of mortaring and rockets hitting the Green Zone.
-G
beerfart–anthony cordesman’s political contributions, he’s a one-man kinda guy.
http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/by…..st=anthony
thanks. i thought it ahd been addressed but couldn’t find where.
thanks again for ALL this stuff-links, footage, posts. it’s not getting anywhere near as much play as it should. what a disgrace. But we DO get to hear that Chelsae said she thinks her mom would be a better president than her dad. great. what an outrage.
Isn’t al-sadr just another thug?
Cordesman seemed so “reasonable” on the Frontline presentation the other night (Bush’s War). My faith is dashed!!!
I guess some commenters do have a good point -that maybe Cheney gave the go ahead to take on the al Sadr forces. It is a typical Cheney plan, so would not work and get lots of innocent people hurt. Makes sense to me.
But al Sadr has been sending signals that his posture would change soon, so it is hard to tell.
He is a heavily armed thug with inordinate powers to inspire support. In the name of Allah. That covers a lot of territory. I think “thug” might be a little smallish for a fit.
thanks for that.
greg b at 135–do you have a link for that? i track that stuff. weird little hobby of mine. * g *
and condi’s got her boots on and is on her way to israel with her little whip. or is already there, what day is it?
(second tacky thing i have said on fdl, i think these people are gettin’ to me after this week)
Good question. Al Sadr is a cleric and has – over the length of the occupation – built a massive popular based on his continuing opposition to the occupation and demands the US leave as well are efforts to build unity across sectarian lines (and arguing that the sectarian divide is a US creation). As friends who know say, we would probably not like to live in his community … but it’s not our choice, eh?
I think we are the thugs in this case …
I think Cheney thinks this is a no-lose move for his cabal. Either Maliki wins and he gets the oil law (big give-away for his oil buds) or more chaos which helps the “defense” industry and keeps oil prices up with maybe a side dish of spinning an Iran connection to al Sadr so they can bomb Irans nuclear power plants.
Sadr another thug? I think in many ways, yes. I have read reports that less conservative Iraqis in Basra do not like the Sadrists at all, and consider them to by intolerant religious extremists and thugs. But that is not the point. The point is (at least my point) is that the Cheney-Bush-McCain story about what is going on is not true, and they either know or should know it is not true, but they keep repeating it anyway.
And things have developed in Iraq so that all sides can be accused of very nasty and brutal thuggery, in my opinion.
does anyone have the number of british troops that were ’pulled out’ of basra to the airport?
usually i remember numbers, but not sure of it.
i can’t find it and need it for something.
thanks.
============
and i keep telling people
http://www.newsmeat.com is an excellent site….itemized political contributions lists back to 1978….if it gives you states, make sure to click on all states, depends when the contributions were made where the person lived/worked at the time. so, unless it gives you just one list, they could have more than one.
also lists where the person was officially employed……have found many links to others that i had no idea they were associated.
also, sometimes names pop up in the choices list that i went–omg—didn’t even know the name of a certain corporation officer, and there it is in front of me.
Isn’t the argument made that Iraq was already like this (thug-against-thug) prior to its creation and only held together by force of Britain or force of Hussein? I am afraid Iraqi history is not my strength, but what I am getting it is this: is what we see return to status quo ante?
Dmac,
Linky:
“Your turn is next,” Gaddafi told the Arab officials gathered for the conference, some of whom looked stunned while others broke into laughter at his frankness.
-G
Siun has a very good point. al Sadr heads a large popular movement in Iraq. I find many beliefs and practices of this movement to be repulsive. But it is a large popular movement that has to be reckoned with, and there are better ways of reckoning with it than the Cheney Bush McCain approach . And let us be honest, the Cheney approach and his Iraqi allies have some thuggery involved also. Just because more of Cheney’s lackeys wear western dress and act like respectably when in view of the US public does not change that.
wes and wordsmith–the other night, in the cheney al-hakim post, siun or someone explained again that some sadrists were followers of the father, others of the son and do not all agree. all are not one cohesive unit.
Invade my country for 17 years and I will gladly be called a thug too..
Wesgpc – Via guides
Resident of Hayyaniya, a stronghold of the Mahdi army
rucks. Our fighters know how to use the side streets as their battle space.”
I have read in other (now lost to me) places of other mahdi maneuvers..succefully gaining control of supplies/munitions.
There is thuggery aplenty in Iraq.
-G
I am not sure. I think if you go to Juan Cole’s Informed Comment blog, and the associated foreign affairs group blog, and follow some links you can form your own opinion.
I think the whole US approach, from the invasion up to today has maximized the chance that any potential for factionalism that existed would get out of hand and blow things up. Some cynics would say that this is exactly the Cheney Bush plan all along. Divide and conquer (they they only got the divide part right, they are not competent enough to follow through on the conquer part).
I am not saying that it is ‘all our fault’ of course. But I think I could make the case the the whole US approach as added to the problem.
There may have been a chance for a more peaceful situation right after invasion, with Iraqi army and civil service intact, a realistic post invasion plan in place and competently managed, and honest efforts at democratization. But that is all gone now, in no small part due to Cheney and his bunch.
exactly Dmac .. Du pointed that out.
I know that several years ago several Iraqis I respect said “we would not in the past have been Sadr supporters but he had been the only one looking out for the people”
as to the idea that Iraq was just some warlord hodgepodge before westerners got involved, this is not what Iraqis say … and we must remember that Iraq had a sophisticated, secular society with world class education and medical care and so much more until we started meddling …
dmac,
from The Scotsman
I think that is true. al Sadr’s father was a nationalist, and conservative Shia, who battled against Saddam. He was assissinated before the invastion. The Sadrist movement predates the invastion by a long ways. If I am wrong, someone let me know. It has always been a movement of working class and poor, and fewer ties to and influence from Iran that Hakim or Maliki groups, DAWA and SCIRI, or ISCI, or whatever its new name is.
wesgpc,
I have been aware of Prof Cole by name only. I’ll check the blog out. Thanks.
Siun, everybody, this old man is getting tired. believe that? Midnight on a Saturday night and I’m sleepy. pathetic. Now back in the day……..
i gotta run. But thanks, everybody, for all the info. We’ll see how the Sunday papers report it and how the adminstration Sunday talk show guests try to spin it.
Night.
Dude and all … I highly recommend a viewing of Between Iraq and a Hard Place – it’s a comedy piece but amazingly on point.
More from the same folks here
And as to the rest of it (the Spread the Chaos theory of Cheney-ism)—I am inclined to believe that.
Yes. A long night for me too. Thanks all.
Sleep well Beefart!
Since I’m in Chi, I have another hour to get sleepy …
http://www.juancole.com/
there is also an associated group foreign affairs blog you can reach from that site, with many excellent analysts -many of whom speak the languages, and have spent serious time in the region. One very good one who writes on Afghanistan and Pakistan is Barnett Rubin, and dang.. can’t remember his name now. Ahmed Rashid (??) a long time investigative reporter in the region.
Dude … thanks for questions and conversation … I don’t think we’ve met before.
We talk about Iraq every Sunday night too … drop by sometime.
I also really rely on Foreign Policy in Focus for smart info.
Russian news source Ria Novosti is reporting US military buildup on the Iranian border.
-G
Thanks, I have read some good pieces there, but have not kept it in mind. I will from now on.
gregb– thanks for the link.
i found this while i was in there
http://english.aljazeera.net/N…..6E4290.htm
breaking news in basra
kevinp–THANKS!
siun, thanks for all you do.
He said the Pentagon is looking for a way to deliver a strike against Iran “that would enable the Americans to bring the country to its knees at minimal cost.”
Sounds like more happy talk.
-G
Dmac .. good link.
Note Al Sadr’s argument:
“Iraq is still under occupation and the United States’ popularity is reducing every day and every minute in Iraq.
“I call, through Al Jazeera, for the departure of the occupying troops from Iraq as soon as possible.”
GregB … I saw a reference to that Russian report, thanks for the link. I can’t imagine how even BushCo could consider a land attack on Iran though the weirdness of our support for Iranian backed Maliki and Hakim makes it all mighty confusing.
I wonder if this was an attempt to shift forces in support of the Basra attacks?
The Cheney Chaos Theory in action. Get ready for some spin on the Big Evil in Tehran.
Just a guess, but this could just be a strategic cover before they bomb Iran’s nuclear power plants. We don’t have enough troops to invade Iran. Your guess looks reasonable too.
Well they keep trying to spin this … and as Lang says the MSM buys it every time … as Al Sadr is an Iranian ally. Given that this is the opposite and in fact today he basically told the Iranians to keep out of the current battle … the press propaganda machine makes me nuts
At minimal cost……….
These are sick mofos.
-G
Thanks to the foreign press, the Internet, and people like yourself, we can actually get this information in a timely manner. Its obvious that the MSM is not doing its job if we can get this information without them.
Thanks for all your work on this.
siun, i’m hitting the hay soon, just wanted to say, again, i really feel that getting the facts out there is an affective way to bring this to an end…..after all, that’s what you and gorillasguides.com are doing….
just keep sending out the facts to anyone, no need to spin it…
and i think some in the media are starting a competition to see which ones can get the facts right. i’ve noticed a change in tone when they ’roundtable’ lately….
now that information is out that contradicted what they said, that showed they didn’t even know shiite from suni, they’re comin’ in a little more prepared. every time i hear something not accurate, if i know it, i send a letter to inform…..their guest may be gone by then, but they can catch it the next time someone spins a lie on their show, it makes them look bad and affects their reputation, and that’s what i tell them.
if they are someone that cares about that, then they are going to make sure it is told correctly the next time.
and yes, i believe that there are a few that do care about that. they just can’t read everything.
so, if you hear an inaccurate thing, or a spin that isn’t a complete telling of a fact, send the fact and correct it, with the desire to educate.
nite all
The sickest evil bastards we’ve ever had in high office.
nite dmac
Great report, Siun!
Bob in HI
Yes.
Wasn’t it the Maliki government that the president of Iran (I can’t spell his name) made an official visit to? I don’t recall him paying a visit to al Sadr. The US knew that Maliki had ties to Iran when they supported his election. Darth Cheney encouraging Maliki to thump al Sadr makes perfect sense for a man who thinks he’s playing with little tin soldiers. Karzai confined to Kabul and Maliki confined to the Green Zone. Yes siree, the US has everything under control.
I’m not sure what it means in this context, but the NYT is reporting that “only two-thirds of the Shiite population in Basra had a favorable opinion of the central government” (down from three fourths). Our own central government, of course, would view a two-thirds favorable rating by Americans as a phenomenal improvement.
Hi Dean … just curious if you have a link to that since I’d be interested to see how they came up with the figures. (While there’s been strong support for “a central government” I’d be interested in seeing the methodology that underlies the NYT figure esp since surveying in Iraq is so difficult)
Thanks … interesting
Actually it was in a NYT op-ed article which says it gets the figure from an ABC News poll, with no details about the poll. With Maliki’s current Bush-like behavior, I’m sure he can drag the rating down to the depths of Bush territory, (if there is any validity to the poll to begin with). I was just struck by the irony of it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03…..38;emc=rss
Our central government would love to have a 2/3 approval rating!!! But this number is no surprise. It is past time to end the occupation!!
Basra was convinced by G.H.W. Bush administration (Schwartzkoff) in the Gulf War to go against Sadaam. We pulled the plug on them and let them get tortured and murdered by Sadaam. We have such a dispicable and treacherous government that we will be hard pressed to find allies.
So do you think the Basrans will welcome us or our puppets. This is playing out like Nam. Petraeus has lost it too. What a stupid move. The Brits recently pulled out. Unfucking believable! The treachery was so un American.