zed? So??

so

i read ALL that…so…im 2 late

well the sun just peaked out,and im going to go make hay…later

This ought to keep everyone busy for a little while… *G*

Matt Bai is a David Brooks in training.

Christy, my eye-opener was an op-ed piece by Mickey Edwards entitled “Cheney’s ‘So’ was the last straw for this conservative.” Columbus Dispatch reprinted it from the WaPo. Here’s the concluding paragraph:

“When the vice president dismisses public opposition to war with a simple “So?” he violates the single most important element in the American system of government: Here, the people rule.”

Here’s a fellow sick and trying to put together money for the rent, but writing his heart out about the likelihood of an attack on Iran and, even supposing that the U.S. is not slapped down like any other rogue nation, the consequences for those of us who live here.

Christy, how can we forestall that attack?

Here, the people rule.

At least it used to be that way.

What am I, the all-knowing eye? If I had an answer to “how do we stop ____” every time someone asked me, I’d love it. But I’ve got nothing for you on that one…other than, I don’t think it’s going to happen because no one, including the military brass, supports it.

And Dick Cheney’s been looking really sulky of late, which means he probably knows that.

CHS:

Al Wynn retiring early, a la Trent Lott.

Linkfest! Yay!

And I’ve reconsidered “So”. Quoting the repulsive Dick Cheney to initiate a thread’s comments is unbecoming of a classy joint like Firedoglake.

So there.

But I’ve got nothing for you on that one…other than, I don’t think it’s going to happen because no one, including the military brass, supports it.

Not that I’m paranoid, but:

1) Cheney obviously ordered the current fight in Basra.
2) If the US gets involved heavily (if we haven’t already) the Sadrists will have to either retreat to Iran or be decimated.
3) if they retreat to Iran, we’ll chase those “outlaws” across the border.
4) Iran will get really pissed at that and may return fire.
5) Cheney gets his war.

Boxturtle (Lessee, shiny side OUT)

We can’t, but if this was going to happen it would have happened last year. Fallon was already on the record a year ago as being committed to stopping an attack on Iran, and Cheney/Bush’s position now is hardly stronger than it was then (remember the British hostages? Borat?). Others have demonstrated that the firing is about the surge, but it’s also probably a form of face saving for Bush and Cheney to put their foot down with Fallon, thereby amplifying the bellicosity of their posture.

That heart will finally force Cheney to retire if he tries to attack Iran.

It wasn’t a “simple so.” It was a snide, dismissive, arrogant, arseholish “so.” In addition to being a dishonest, secretive, manipulative megalomaniacal prevaricator, he’s disgusting to watch. And those are his good points!

Christy !

the tbogg link – the suitcase- per Wanky McWankington -

She carries five pairs of shoes around with her and has, she says, “the biggest suitcase on the trail.”

“He’s nicknamed ‘Mr. Lee,’” [friend Shannon] Bae says of that suitcase. “That’s her Chinese manservant.”

TNR

and no, not expecting heavy rotation on Faux

Barbara, in case you missed it, that quote was from Mickey Edwards — HE called it a “simple ‘So?’” I thought it was encouraging that someone who had worked with Cheap-knee was finally fed up with him…

They don’t have to retreat to Iran, just to their warrens. The U.S. army has fought the Sadrists before and they’re still there.

If Cheney ordered this, just remember what kind of generalship he and Bush have shown thus far.

I think it would be a really good idea to have him stay in office. If he leaves McCain will be the next VP and it would be much easier for McCain to just stay. Horrors!

She carries five pairs of shoes around with her

Amateur.

707 ! how ya doin’ Cali gal ?

1,795 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen BoxTurtle:

“…the Sadrists will either have to retreat to Iran or be decimated.”

I beg to differ, we can’t afford to commit enough of what we have in country to Basra to make a difference and even if we did, the Sadrists would fight like tigers and let the US be responsible for decimating the city and unifyin’ those that ain’t already unified. The current US military command is well aware of it’s limitations and they also know that al-Sadr’s goal is to unify the country without Iranian help. There isn’t a battle in this war that we have enough troops ta win and everyone includin’ our general staff knows it.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, WE’RE GUNNA BE DIGGIN’ OUTTA THIS MESS FOR A LONG TIME!!

No biggie, they’ll just extend the deadline and let em melt away in the night.

Breaking news from MSNBC and the Associated Press:

The White House says a presidential aide has resigned after engaging in improprieties using USAID grant money.

(Please stay tuned…)

It is Friday afternoon!

Here it is:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl…..le/7419589

I beg to differ, we can’t afford to commit enough of what we have in country to Basra to make a difference and even if we did, the Sadrists would fight like tigers and let the US be responsible for decimating the city and unifyin’ those that ain’t already unified.

That is quite correct. The unwritten assumption above is that Cheney doesn’t care. He wants to go into Iran. He’s already fired one general (excuse me, the general retired) for not being on the proper page wrt Iran. He’ll find some gung-ho general, promote him into the proper position and send our soldiers into the meat grinder.

Boxturtle (Even if they DON’T retreat into Iran, BushCo will SAY they did)

Only the janitors will be left with decent reputations. What a sad joke these people are.

3 hrs till tip off, sorry bout the eers Christy but I thought they played their hearts out.

Busy and then some. I may never need to create bookmarks, ever. Merci Christy.

Don’t you have, like ya know, a job?

Inconceivable

also Boxturtle -

your # 3 – as Cheney’s deal was made with Iran’s Agent al-Hakim, there is a real possibility that only his forces would be allowed to escape to Iran

Raven – I never like to disagree with a combat vet on such things, but it really looks like Mr Cheney wants al-Sadr finished (good luck with that!) and apparently scared/threatened al-Maliki enough to make him move fast – IOW Darth isn’t gonna be satisfied with ‘em melting away in the night

I still haven’t figured out who’s punkin’ who here – but it’s clear to me Cheney will not be placated on this

But the point is the Sadrists won’t retreat into Iran and we would get the shit kicked outta us and our general staff won’t allow it.

Well, here’s an interesting little tidbit. Another bushie caught with his hands in the cookie jar.

“Bush Aide Resigns for Alleged Wrongdoing”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..eheadlines

This ought to keep everyone busy for a little while… *G*

That’s mean! In fact, I would go so far as to say it’s sadistic! Meanwhile, I can’t wait to go read TRex post. Thanks for linking him. And you’re right, it’d take forever for me to read all of these posts! When would I have time to read the comments?

Note to self: Read comments before posting.

Sheesh.

the whole thing is hard to understand.
maybe cheney was delusional again and thought this would be an easy win just before betrayus shows up at congress. but, could he still be that stupid? seems much more likely to backfire.

as an excuse for attacking iran, it seems strange. he oughta be able to come up w/ something more straightforward. ya know,like a faked confrontation at sea or something …

it just seems bizarre. why is vp-for-life so eager for this one now?

Is it wrong to think about other countries coming to our rescue…is that unpatriotic? Is it too early to think about dumb questions? Is it too late to stop drinking on Friday?

The White House says a presidential aide has resigned after engaging in improprieties using USAID grant money.

Sounds like Friday news dump material.

it just seems bizarre. why is vp-for-life so eager for this one now?

Because they’ve recently passed law allowing for provincial elections – Sadrists control Basra/the South (the only port/oil export) and would walk away with the nod

Mr Cheney would like his people (al-hakim) to run the South

it just seems bizarre. why is vp-for-life so eager for this one now?

Well if you were interested in setting the stage for an Israeli attack on Iranian nuclear facilities on say April 5th or 6th (new moon), it would make sense.

just saw that on cnn chyron but no comment yet… wolfie’s about to come on – wondering if he’ll say anything about THAT!! hmmmmm

But the point is the Sadrists won’t retreat into Iran and we would get the shit kicked outta us and our general staff won’t allow it.

Oh, I agree. But we’ll SAY they ran into Iran and any officer who refuses the orders will be resigned & replaced until he finds some Gung Ho officer. Cheney has lied before to start a war. Cheney has “retired” officers who disagree with him before. Impeachment is off the table.

Boxturtle (or do you trust Dick? :-) )

and ps – per the wonks – those upcoming elections will also determine the country’s future – partition, not to partition

oh and maybe with the Sadrists gone things would look even better for the Republics come Nov

provincial elections aren’t till october … maybe cheney figures it’ll take that long for this to “work out”?
and why can’t the israeli’s just attack iranian facilities w/o these battles?

i guess i just don’t see why this is so compelling. unless it was supposed to provide a big boost prior to betrayus testimony, which sure looks unlikely.

The right wing is already out in front of the propaganda campaign to explain our recession.
Look at this documentary which won at Sundance this year:

http://www.agorafinancial.com/iousa.html

Sundance gives it credibility to average liberals. It blames our deficit for the impending economic problems, and from what I can tell it uses the “Social Security/ Entitlement Programs are the cause” argument that distracts from the real culprits of the Military Industrial Complex, Deregulation, and wasteful Government contracts. Notice the video follows David M. Walker, the U.S. comptroller general and head of the Government Accountability Office. We all know how good of a job they have been doing keeping an eye on the books.

“Walker, 56, has repeatedly warned that the government faces a long-term fiscal crisis as the baby-boom generation retires, driving up spending on Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.
He will continue to raise the alarm as president and chief executive of the newly established Peter G. Peterson Foundation, set up by the co-founder and senior chairman of The Blackstone Group, who served as Commerce secretary in the Nixon administration. Peterson has pledged to contribute at least $1 billion to the foundation.”
http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmsp…..0002672472
With all of the blatantly criminal actions of the Bush Administration, does anyone actually expect them to just leave office, while turning both houses and the White House over to the Democrats? Before November we will be deep in recession. Most average Americans can already feel the effects of this, while the mainstream economic press argues whether or not we technically are.
We have been in the midst of a giant credit and housing bubble for years. When everything is good most people don’t bother to pay attention. When things start going bad, they start looking for information. The problem is where they go for that information.I’m sure the MSM/Republican Noise Machine talking points will be about how” this is the fault of Medicare/welfare, Social Security etc., and that if the Democratic congress had worked with Bush in fixing them we wouldn’t be in this mess.” And just like the people who were wrong about the war all along are still listened to by the press, the same will be true about the people that have been lying or wrong about the economy. By then which ever Democratic candidate is still around will be baited into offering up their plan with how to help the average American. The response will most likely be some combination of New Deal Style programs to help people survive. The right will then counter with the” how will you pay for it without raising taxes?” Then they will say, “See the Left has no sense of fiscal responsibility. The economy was great under Bush, until the democrats took over the Senate.” And they will have charts and graphs to prove it. Also this is a worldwide economic crisis, and as things start getting bad around the world violence will be breaking out by late summer early fall. This will also play into the McCain “Strong on National Security Narrative”.
Do Not think that the people won’t by this. Anyone who has been paying attention knows that this is a load of horseshit, but we know that most Americans have not been paying much attention and are easily manipulated by the MSM under the best of circumstances. Combine major recession (loss of jobs, loss of houses, no savings, loads of debt, gas over $4, and food prices going through the roof) with Republican skill at fear mongering and spin: you have President John McCain. We need to seriously look at how to get out in front of this in a big way.

Here is Juan Cole’s take on Cheney’s involvement in the Basra/Sadr fiasco.

I think Cheney probably told ISCI and Prime Minister al-Maliki that the way to fix this problem and forestall the Sadrists coming to power in Iraq, was to destroy the Mahdi Army, the Sadrists’ paramilitary. Without that coercive power, the Sadrists might not remain so important, is probably their thinking. I believe them to be wrong, and suspect that if the elections are fair, the Sadrists will sweep to power and may even get a sympathy vote. It is admittedly a big ‘if.’

How anyone [Cheney] could be wrong so often is mind boggling.

then why make the deal with al-Hakim ?

I know, this isn’t the gang that thinks things through, but from everything I’ve read about al-Hakim, he’d fit in nicely with the Cheney/Addington crew – he is not gonna be played

Because they’ve recently passed law allowing for provincial elections

That is a lot of it too but I am not sure when the provincial elections would be held. Another thing about the Mahdi Army is that it is where it is because this is where its members live. They aren’t just defending real estate. They are defending their homes and families. Think how fiercely you would fight to defend yours under similar circumstances.

does anyone think the next move in iraq will to terminate al-sadr?? he doesnt want to play nice with the americans….. hmmm wonder why??

Hmm, I think it really is that simple. The entire Iraqi (mis)adventure will be a complete waste if the wrong people control the oil. Not only will history be unkind to Cheney, Bush, and the neo-cons, but the powerful interests (that Cheney represents) behind the oil grab will not be happy.

No, no, no. They will not be happy at all.

I’m over on CNBC Financial watching hosts and guests paint lipstick on a pig.

Liesman, the tame, in-house economic guru, sees nothing but blue skies for stocks and bonds, and rudely interrupts anyone who doesn’t.

I know, they are only following orders.

Oh, I wasn’t ragging on you!! Not since “is” has a two-letter word engendered so much eye-rolling angst.

They aren’t just defending real estate. They are defending their homes and families. Think how fiercely you would fight to defend yours under similar circumstances.

a really, really smart guy had something to say about this -

who else ?

Republicans are depending on Americans in general to not know anything about our economy and too lazy to understand the economy or give a shit. Don’t despair Republicans …Americans will come through for you.

Cold linkie.

is this better ?

btw, note the date

I heard a radio report yesterday lauding someone who had foreseen the economic crisis in spring of 07! What brilliance!

It feels like a repeat of the runup to the Iraq war. I’m not brilliant, but I (and millions of others) could see this was not a sane plan. The economy has looked weird (and awful) to many for years now.

The pundits are all be in the bubble with George. So, how do we the people burst the bubble?

Under the leadership of Geroge W. Bush we have been re-fighting the Vietnam War in Iraq, and the culture wars here at home. McCain must be defeated. Or this will continue.

L.

– Spencer Ackerman takes a long, hard look at McCain’s foreign policy proposals. And sees Bush/Cheney. Shocker.

Glenn Greenwald made a similar point this morning: http://www.salon.com/opinion/g…..index.html

On Wednesday, John McCain delivered what was billed as a “major foreign policy” speech and today, David Brooks gushed that it was “as personal, nuanced and ambitious a speech as any made by a presidential candidate this year.” In particular, Brooks said that the speech demonstrates just how different McCain’s foreign policy approach is from that of Bush/Cheney: “Anybody who thinks McCain is merely continuing the Bush agenda is not paying attention.”

The reality is exactly the opposite. Thematically, rhetorically and substantively, McCain’s speech, particularly as it concerned the Middle East, was essentially a replica of the speech George Bush has been giving for the last seven years. It trumpeted virtually every tenet of the neoconservative faith: to be safe, the U.S. must slay tyranny around the world, spread democracy, bring freedom to the grateful peoples of the Middle East so they turn towards us and away from the Terrorists, using “more than military force” — but also military force. We’ll only be safe by controlling and transforming the Middle East to look the way we want it to look.

I love Liss’s Flying Spaghetti Monster Hat!
*waving to Liss*

What you highlight are conflicting narratives. Iraqi politics are dictating what is happening in Basra as far as the Iraqis are concerned. Alliances are fluid and can be made between groups fundamentally at odds with each other. So for example, Sadr gets aid from the Iranians and talks about alliances with Sunnis. al Hakim is a creation of the Iranians but is best buds with the Americans. There are no neat lines and the only rationale is what strengthens any one group at a particular time.

Then there is the Bush-Cheney perspective. It takes in none of these subtleties and complexities. For them, it keeps coming back to Iran. They see Sadr as a threat which for them means that weakening him or taking him out weakens Iran. This is, of course, ludicrous, but you have to remember that Bush consistently argues that an American withdrawal from Iraq would strengthen both Iran and al Qaeda. This is logically impossible and, on top of that, makes the standard unsustainable conflation of the real al Qaeda in Pakistan with a fairly small group of jihadis in Iraq. So yes, I can see using the conflict in Basra as a pretext to pile on after an initial Israeli strike against Iran. I realize too that this could force al Hakim to break with us but given the way Bush-Cheney view the world in black and white I don’t think that possiblity has or will occur to them until it happens.

Ah yes, the man understood much! There’s plenty more such timely wisdom at the old site.

I’ve often wondered myself whether anyone in the Badministration has ever looked at a map.

This seems to be the latest on Basra…US bombs strongholds:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03…..?ref=world

CHRISTY

important–
a radio ad attacking rep zack space for not ’doing his job’ not ’protecting our homeland/para’ by not suppoting the fisa bill.

sponsored by ’ defense of democracy action fund’, just aired on columbus, ohio radio. even gave his phone number demanding for people to call …….was a really nasty one, and worded very well……

the attacks have begun. wonder who’s on the board of this organization.

I don’t think that possiblity has or will occur to them until it happens.

B-I-N-G-O

hope you caught that working link @ 58 -

thanks

check Freedom Watch -

From cbl2’s link:

“It looks like Hakim is going to try to sucker the US into going after Sadr. Which means the US loses and Hakim moves bach to Tehran.”

That’s why Cheney’s threatening Iran-to blacmail Hakim into going after Sadr. If the U.S. attacks Iran, Hakim will have nowhere to go when Sadr defeats him. Thing is, Hakim’s fucked whatever he does.

Gilliard was brilliant. He is missed.

Pretty sure that’s the same group with which Joe Lieberman is affiliated — they’ve been trying to run those for a while…take a peek here.

linkiciousness!

So Larry Diamond, member in good standing of the National Endowment for Democracy and Condaleeza’s BFF is lecturing us on Rolling back Democracy and damning everyone (an extensive list nowadays) we don’t like? Perhaps he needs to take a look here at home! I am willing to bet that Rafael Correa and Michele Bachelet have a much greater commitment to Democracy than either Bush or Cheney. So?

hope you caught that working link @ 58 -

Thanks, great post. I agree. It’s what I was saying. Bush-Cheney create these narratives that have nothing to do with the realities of Iraq and then never understand why things turn out the opposite of what they planned.

Christy, I forgot to thank you for doing all the hard work and putting together such an interesting post. Great reading all around!

thanks cbl2-couldn’t remember the name of it!

thanks christy

the name sounded familiar, but then, sometimes it all blurs, and it isn’t.

hadn’t looked into it yet, you both saved me lots of time on my dial-up

this was a well-done hit on zach space…he votes both ways, was money well-spent by them…just sayin’.

Remarkable, as you said, ‘note the date’.

Thank you for this link, it is damning, especially the photos.

Presumably some in the higher reaches of the military, regardless of Petraeus, MUST, clearly understand the truth.

A further ‘adventure’ in Iran would destroy the American ground forces, especially if the non-Wisdoms choose to go ‘newquelur’.

Even if that madness eludes us, a replay of Saigon appears ever more likely.

Melissa nails it: what happens to black republicans in the Bush Administration.

One more…a comment on a Siegelman thread at Left in Alabama…from a former TV news person.

Well, since this is a linkorama …

Wildlife Park Official Arrested in Gorilla Killings

Congolese authorities have arrested a senior park official in connection to the recent execution-style killings of several mountain gorillas, a move that conservationists have praised as a crucial step toward saving the rare primates.

Ten mountain gorillas were slaughtered in separate incidents in the Democratic Republic of the Congo’s Virunga National Park in 2007.

Honore Mashagiro, the former chief of the park, was arrested earlier this month at his home in Goma in eastern Congo.

He appeared in court last week, charged with the deaths of gorillas and illegal charcoal burning, according to the UN-supported radio station Okapi via the Reuters news service.

Thank you! I wish I could comment on all the other links on here, but my brain is moving slow today. Back to reading!

nice collection of blog links, christy! my compliments to you!

Thanks Christy, but that was my co-blogger Ellroon that amused you so much.