so

Zed! and HRC is pissing on our brand like a Goldwater Girl!

Did you see the Bernstein piece on CNN’s site?

That would be almost

I give you Presidunce John McBu’ush.

It seems like we’re pissing all over ourselves. I can’t wait for this sh*t to end, and for Penn to be gone.

oy, can this primary end already without the party being torn asunder?

Excellent post Blue Texan. We should collectively be against McCain, not against those in our own party.

No more surrogates talking shit and no more folks making shit up. State your case as to why you should be prez and let folks decide

UH—OH the Military is starting to go after Hillary, and I don’t blame them.

http://pennsylvaniaprogressive…..t-acc.html

These numbers are wrong When did Obama ever appeal to the 30%ers?

Yep. We have gone through things like this before and lived. It’s certainly not pretty but eventually the job gets done.

Rubin is on my teevee and I refuse to turn the volume up to see what he is spinning. Oh, the Tuzla snipper business. Definitely not turning up the volume now.

O/T Anyone know what time UCLA is playing today?

{{{Blue Texan}}}

Did you hear us talking about you a couple of threads back and the appearance of your letter on Washington Journal today with the Clark Holt NYT interview? Your letter really looked good:))

It drives me crazy that Republicans put party before everything, while Democrats cut off their nose to spite their face. Just once do what is necessary to put a Democrat in the White House.

We may have gone thorugh someting similar before but this has left a really bad taste in my mouth with regards to politics and I can imagie that it has turned quite a few people off

What independents are Penn talking about the prowar, prohealthcare crowd or the Bunch who thinks that Bush is doing a great job on the economy, but they want to pay more taxes to buy the stuff our solders need?

We have gone through things like this before and lived.

I’ve read comments from folks who say if HRC is the nominee they won’t vote. If that really happens we end up with crazy train. Looks more and more like that won’t happen but there has to be people on the other side of that equation. The infighting is NOT good.

Question:

What is the difference between a misstatement and a lie?

I wouldn’t exactly call that “the military”. I agree with the article and I’m a vet but I ain’t the military.

the beholder

What is the difference between a misstatement and a lie?

I misspoke, you lied.

If she stopped her bullshit this very second I wouldn’t vote for her.

Good Afternoon Blue Tex

props on your CSPAN appearance !

oh, and this pic was all over Right Wankistan this morning

and then there’s this – HRC Camp: Obama has a Jewish problem

I know this isn’t about the poo, but dear gaia, when has the Obama camp tried to scare anyone ?

I will say this as an Obama supporter, that I will vote for Hillary if she is the nominee (though I may not like it) because the bigger picture (SCOTUS) will have a much wider, longer and broader effect on me/others than my offended sensibilities

O/T Anyone know what time UCLA is playing today?

They don’t play today. The WKU game is scheduled for tomorrow evening @ 9:40 EDT.

You are right, I should have said, some in the military…
as in the pilot who flew the plane into bosnia…

http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..595/484508

No, it’s not good at all but it isn’t fatal. I remember campaigns that were very ugly but the party survived and went on. Don’t want to sound like a Pollyanna but we will get through this and maybe be better for it. The Dems have been out of power for so long and just maybe we needed to do cleaning up. With the progressives fighting the way we are, some Dems in Congress may get the message that we will stand up for our country.

thanks Marion and Raven–

Truly, I have been trying to wrap my mind around that those terms or rather use of terms. I talked with my dad this morning and he asked me the same question.

Did you read the comments? People are not buying it.

We lived, but unfortunately with Nixon, Reagan, and George Bush.

Yes, we have gone through this before, and just like in the past the Old Party Estabishment will achieve their goal. Break the liberal arm of the party. Being a Liberal in the Democrat party is a mortal sin. They see us winning again and WILL shoot us down again. Just like they did in Chicago… If we, as liberals, do not win this one then we will have to start our own party!!!

BT – Did you hear yourself get mentioned on Washington Journal this morning in the interview with the NYT editor? They even flashed the FDL site on there…

Like I said, the sentiment is right on. I’m sick of phonies, right wing left wing or nay other damn wing.

Why does the Press let Penn and Dobson spin like this without FACTS. Obama and Hilary are to the right of 70% of the American people on ending the war now!
They are to the Right of the majority on healthcare!
Just how does Penn and Dobson decide who is the most Liberal Senator and what are their qualifications to judge?
On the Question of Just Who is the Most Liberal Senator throughout the Land you would think that the press would ask US to vote on it.
After all Penn and Dobson only know about bashing Liberals.

I read that this morning. Is that where her campaign is sending around an article written some right wing magazine?

thanks

Did you hear them floating a possible Gore ticket around this morning….on CNN…

Er…no. Linky?

There is this kind of odd story up at the NYT about how fewer media outlets can afford to be “on the bus” following the candidates on a daily basis.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03…..26bus.html

The odd part for me is that it is written from the point of view that such coverage is meaningful and conducted by serious, thoughtful reporters.

But the absence of some newspapers on the trail suggests not only that readers are being exposed to fewer perspectives drawn from shoe-leather reporting, but also that fewer reporters will arrive at the White House in January with the experience that editors have typically required to cover a president on Day 1.

You see the problem. If this were true, why is it the White House press corps has produced nothing but crap reporting for the last 7 years, and probably a lot longer, and why is it that one of the few White House reporters with even a modicum of integrity Helen Thomas probably hasn’t been near a bus in decades?

Asking Penn and Dobson to decide who is the most Liberal Senator in America is like asking a Vegean where a good steak joint is:). I now am seriously wondering just how dumb the press must be to go with this story.

EPU’d from previous thread (which I normally never do)

in response to AZ Matt @ 123

yeah – probably because I’m just tired.

I’m tired – before they ever take control, of the Democratic government to come.

I’m tired of hating my government.

I’m tired of only being able to vote “against” someone.

I’m tired of seeing my Constitution pissed on.

I’m tired of seeing kids come back from Iraq, for no goddamned reason whatsoever, in a bag, or permanently fucked-up, with no help in sight.

I’m tired of the fact that Big Media is owned by the same people who make these fucked-up policies, and who “report” accordingly.

I’m tired of the fact that New Orleans has been studiously, perhaps even gleefully, ignored.

I am, in short, tired of hating myself and my country.

BT: You can probably watch the archive of the show on C-SPAN.

Go Bruins.

“Obama Won’t Get Clinton’s Voters“

I think you CAN be against members of your own party — that’s the point of a primary. But I don’t think you should attack them using the other guys’ playbook. That’s just freaking idiotic.

I’ve tried to stay out of the candidates’ business as they go to other primaries and let my fellow citizens have their opportunity to vote just as I did in Nevada. But nnnoooooo! It has to get really ugly and mean-spirited.

Until recently I refused to play favorites and give my support to one of the candidates but I just can’t let my party’s selection of a candidate be driven by desperate measures. I just can’t. So, I’m taking a position.

The longer the primaries have gone on the more the players self-reveal. I must cast my vote in favor of Obama. It makes me angry to be put in this position. It isn’t any one thing; it’s the accumulation of behavior, statements, lack of statements, and, action out of desperation.

I will not speak ill of Hillary (I’ll save that for the Repugs) but I will question her choices as well as Obama’s.

And yes, misspeak is a lie. It is worse than a lie because it demonstrates the person has no regret other than getting caught. It’s untrustworthy behavior.

yep

OT: The media is not reporting that an Embassy employee, a financial analyst, has died of wounds from the attacks on the Green Zone….

And yes, misspeak is a lie. It is worse than a lie because it demonstrates the person has no regret other than getting caught.
______

See the really cool book “On Bullshit“

It’s rather like a game my mother and I used to play when I was a kid:

I have a subtle aura of mystery about me, you use too much perfume, she stinks. I glow, you perspire, he sweats. You get the idea…

raven at 3

what was the bernstein article/thing about? i can’t access it.

he HATES clinton, so, what did he poke her with?

not loading, tried for 10 minutes on separate screen, tubes reaaaaaaaly slow today on dial-up

You see the problem. If this were true, why is it the White House press corps has produced nothing but crap reporting for the last 7 years, and probably a lot longer, and why is it that one of the few White House reporters with even a modicum of integrity Helen Thomas probably hasn’t been near a bus in decades?

I think that reporting belongs to two schools Access which Judy Miller and Robert Novak do which requires inside sources who tell you what to write.
And Investigative reporting which Greg Palast does.
The White House press corps outside of Helen Thomas belongs to the first school of reporting, the Coctail Weiner Eaters.

Go Hilltoppers! Go Big Red! *waving red towel for all to see*

Mrs. Clinton’s supporters are getting extremely desperate. You could see the mood swing after Richardson came out for Obama. I think the pressure is coming from the A*P*C influence, which is very heavy among her major financial supporters. They have the most to lose, and given their commitments to a country other than the United States, will pull out all the stops. McCain might win, but he is not a good bet. Hillary is a safe candidate. We haven’t begun to see the worst of this campaign.

Mrs. Clinton is going to have to take a deep breath at some point, and think through what she is doing to her party and her country.

which will no doubt be ultimately found to have been self-inflicted.

I am, in short, tired of hating myself

Go easy on that bro.

We lived, but unfortunately with Nixon, Reagan, and George Bush.

So very true! And each time our country sank lower and lower at the expense of our Constitution and democracy. I’m ready to move the other direction – upward (that doesn’t mean prices at the gas pump and grocery store).

And this has what to do with snowbirds?

Hillary Clinton has many admirable qualities, but candor and openness and transparency and a commitment to well-established fact have not been notable among them. The indisputable elements of her Bosnian adventure affirm (again) the reluctant conclusion I reached in the final chapter of A Woman In Charge, my biography of her published last June:

“Since her Arkansas years [I wrote], Hillary Rodham Clinton has always had a difficult relationship with the truth… [J]udged against the facts, she has often chosen to obfuscate, omit, and avoid. It is an understatement by now that she has been known to apprehend truths about herself and the events of her life that others do not exactly share. ” [italics added]

As I noted:

“Almost always, something holds her back from telling the whole story, as if she doesn’t trust the reader, listener, friend, interviewer, constituent—or perhaps herself—to understand the true significance of events…”

The Bosnian episode is a watershed event, because it indelibly brings to mind so many examples of this tendency– from the White House years and, worse, from Hillary Clinton’s take-no-prisoners presidential campaign. Her record as a public person is replete with “misstatements” and elisions and retracted and redacted and revoked assertions…

I would take Nixon over Bush in a heartbeat. Less than a heartbeat.

{{{Bless Helen Thomas}}}

You know she must have days she’s just not up to the White House nonsense but there she is, sticking it to them. I want to sit next to Helen!

What’s wrong with being a Liberal?

Sounds like a compliment to me.

#41: Asking Penn and Dobson to decide who is the most Liberal Senator in America is like asking a Vegean where a good steak joint is:). I now am seriously wondering just how dumb culpable the press must be to go with this story.

Fixed.

~ Seasoned blue collar liberal white woman for Obama ‘08

Thank you for articulating my thought. As for the comment that HRC voters will not vote for Obama. I can’t speak for anyone else but I voted for HRC in the California primary and I damn sure will vote for Obama in the general.

See the really cool book “On Bullshit“

i have that book (really more of a hard cover bound essay) – very interesting thesis, iirc, that bullshit is more damaging to society than a lie… because at least the liar acknowledges what is real and that what they are saying is not.

A-friggin’-men, BT.

I couldn’t agree with this comparison and its analysis more. As Clinton continues her slide to the right I am beginning to wonder if she’s in competition with Lieberman to be McCain’s VP. In light of this shift, it is time for the emotional pull to a woman candidate to be reconsidered by some. This rightward shift would continue in the fantasy-contest with McCain and as president as well.

Do some of her supporters feel that this is just an act, that she’s actually the liberal in conservatives clothing just as part of some game, and that once she wins (another fantasy) that she will shed the fake exterior? I am more opposed to her with every tactical shift. If I wanted to vote for a Republican (which I never have or will) I would vote for McCain. As it is, if she pulls off this magic trick I will leave my presidential ballot blank.

Especially since Nixon’s dead so he can’t cause as much damage.

But yeah, with a viable Democratic controlled Congress to oppose him, I think I would take Nixon over Bush.

But not sure Nixon would have been any better than Bush if his first six years in office he’d had a Republican controlled Congress to go along with everything he wanted.

Re BobbyG’s #45:
“Obama Won’t Get Clinton’s Voters“

Who’s to say he would need them?

thanks Raven.

Just tired, is all.

Appreciate it.

Why is that?

Obama got this Clinton voter/supporter. I have been disappointed in her campaign for a while, and now I am disappointed in her. Lying is something I expect of republicans.

was so gobsmacked by the Scaife teaparty, it only just now dawned on me -

she has written off the once prized African American vote, surely that’s dawned on the superdelegates she’s hectoring – electable my ass

Ding.

A*P*C hostility to Obama’s foreign policy team, and mistrust on the part of many Jewish Democrats of a candidate insufficiently deferential to Israel are both fair. It’s a free country, after all. But this is definitely Clinton’s last card to play. That’s what made me so fearful and mistrustful of what seemed to be these mysterious superdelegates. When they come out for Obama its going to lessen my awe of the Lobby.

The main difference between the two candidates was always the war, and a future war with Iran.

Interesting, they just talked about Clinton’s religious ties, specifically to ‘the Family’. We’ll have to see how that plays out

Fuck Penn. Seriously.

And while we’re at it, fuck the Clintons as well. This isn’t just Penn going off on another tangent, this is a pattern of behavior which the Clintons have tacitly approved.

I’m tired of this shit. Hillary knows she can’t win without knee-capping Obama, and she’s more than willing to do it.

Blue Texan:

I believe you’re the first FDL poster to say “Enough”.

I agree. When Dodd and Kucinich were pushed out I thought I’d have to go with Edwards. When Edwards was pushed out I took the sidelines.
I looked at the pros and cons of both candidates. I didn’t want to get into the fray.
And then a woman I respect begins using my core beliefs as a snide smear in her messaging.
Hillary needs to be called out on this. I’m sick of being insulted. As far as I’m concerned she just threw down the gauntlet!!!
Go Obama .

Why did she tell that particular Bosnia lie? It’s so easy to prove it’s a lie and she just stepped right in it. Don’t get it at all.

shorter (per my dad): she pays fast and loose with the truth

Shorter (mr wobbs): she has veracity issues

I think what he would take is Nixon plus a Democratic Congress over Bush.

It’s the Tuzla Bamboozla.

She was “sleep deprived” from taking 3:00 a.m. pillow talk with McCain and Lieberman.

First she insulted those of us in the small states…don’t matter, don’t count.

Then she insulted those who live in small countries…too poor, too dangerous for the prez? Send the “first” lady.

Who’s next? Small planet?

Yeah, what was up with meeting with satan, himself? I am completely befuddled by that one

When you out and out say, on multiple occasions, that the other party’s candidate is better qualified for the office than your primary opponenet, isn’t that more than just idiotic?

On today’s scale, warped by the rightward lurch of the GOP, Nixon is way left of Obama on lots of stuff. He expanded LBJ’s welfare progs., he established the EPA, etc. And he was a realist. The neocons hated the realism of Nixon and Kissinger. Given the choice between Bush and Nixon, it’s not even close.

Desperation. She already knows that everything she says and does will be parsed to death. She has crossed the line a while back unfortunately. The party elders need to ask her to step aside.

oh, yowzah! “Tuzla Bamboozla”…

What else would you expect from Commando Clinton?

In her Balkans Sniper story she goes beyond leaving things out, ignoring stuff etc. She graduates to invention whole cloth of stories that didn’t happen I wonder if she is having a Reagan Liberating a Concentration Camp sign of some form of old age mental trouble.
Cause this is new. This is worse than any minor cover ups before that I am aware of.
McCain with his Sunni, Shia confusion on the other hand I hope is slipping mentally. Because I worry that his slips might otherwise be Freudian and hints of the future.

HRC is out for just one thing, and one think only: to complete whatever it was she was “in charge” of while her Hubby was getting his work done. What was she in charge of?

Well, it’s Wednesday, let’s ask her. I’m sure it involved feeding Asian orphans, doing liver transplants and curing AIDS (and that before lunch, and a photo op with the Pope O’Rome), her afternoon will be taken up with a meeting on ending global warming, where she will singlehandedly propose a design for a nuclear-powered car that runs on discarded radium watch dials followed by a gala fund raiser for the HRC Foundation for Truth, Justice and the American Way.

Then I woke up.

And four times. She’s a brilliant woman, why would she try this? I do not understand how she could behave so stupidly.

…. not that the lying doesn’t bother me, seriously – how many presidential candidates don’t? and how many presidents have we had that don’t?

i’d love to see a very high standard of honesty demanded from all our politicians. the deceit that permeates our political discourse is way above the toxic level, imo.

Apparently he wasn’t your commander in chief. I have a long memory.

Yes, but even that’s not as bad. I agree it’s totally out of bounds, and I blogged about it a couple of times. But this is still worse because it has broader ramifications.

So when are Reid and Dean going to speak with Hillary? After Pennsylvania?

Oh. My. Gawd.

Expect an attack by RieszFischer.

On the other hand – it’ll be pretty weak tea – I’m sure you can handle it without breaking a sweat. otoh, it’s probably good, as opposed to what I did, to refrain from picking on one who is barely able to be a one-track mind….

It’s true, Raven — I was a Nixon baby. But can you imagine Obama expanding welfare? I can’t.

I said it earlier today – but how is that any different from McCain embracing Chimpigula after that horrible smear on his adopted daughter ?!?!?

It’s not the lying that bothers me. It’s the underlying reason she has to so desperately improvise in padding her resume: she insists on running on “experience”, which can be translated in our current depraved discourse as “reliable warmongering”.

I often use the term self-reveal. Over time, we all do just that. Hillary’s “misspeak” was a revelation of herself that none of us could ever have done on her as well. It’s as John Adams says, “Facts don’t lie”. They persist.

One of my heroines is Agnes Smedley. I read and re-read Daughter of Earth. I love her for her truthtelling and courage to admit her wrongs. She takes responsibility for her own behavior even when unflattering.

IMO… why wait? The sooner we get all this energy pointed at McInsane the better.

In the words of Dear Leader, “bring it on”. ;)

I can’t even engage in that conversation. It’s the same as when people start talking about all the great shit LBJ did. I am sort of a one issue guy and you know what that is.
Tin Soldiers and Nixon comin,
we’re finally on our own.

Yes, if Obama had been a Senator during Nixon’s administration.

It was a different country. Apples and oranges.

LOL…

Nixxon was a travesty. What does it say about HRC that she’s so willing to destroy her own party in an effort to achieve personal power and whatever else it is she has in mind.

Remember, she’s willing to sit down with Scaife and drink with Murdoch. Appear on Olbermann for some Q&Q? Not So Much.

Isn’t it strange that when Obama left the stage to go on vacation and Clinton had the spotlight all to herself, she only managed to shift right and damage her credibility even further? Although I know that Obama needed some rest and time with his family, this almost seems like a tactical move to leave her hanging out to dry in the news cycle. Instead of using this to her advantage, she started blasting in all directions and shot herself in both feet.

It isn’t any different.

Oh, and the way she bowed up when telling it, just jump up and kiss my ass.

Frankly, it sounds like a feigned insult when Mark Penn points out that Independents and Republicans won’t vote for “the most liberal senator.”

It’s as if Obama fans are frightened of any label he may have to bear.

Get over it. Please. If his image is this delicate in a primary, he has no chance in a general.

McCain with his Sunni, Shia confusion on the other hand I hope is slipping mentally.

In my view, McCain was riffing on the long established Administration line that if we leave Iraq both al Qaeda and Iran win. McCain just took it further and said they were actually working together.

And no I do not accept the original Administration line. I find it hopelessly contradictory.

…she started blasting in all directions and shot herself in both feet.

Now there’s an image that I have to say is both funny and sad/sickening at the same time.

IMHO, Dean is a little afraid of Hillary and Reid is scared shitless of her. Encouraging signs of leadership are an endangered species these days.

Yeah, Selise, I agree with his take on that.

When folks who are allegedly “ours” start using the not-so-dog-whistle word “Liberal” to describe a progressive Democrat, damn right I’m going to take offense.

And I suspect I am not alone.

Yes, it was a country where liberal values were embraced even by Republican presidents.

Good observation

TYVM.

Obama just on CNN saying he hoped the hype about his former pastor didn’t make us forget the issues we need to talk about such as Iraq, the economy, etc…Questioner asks about senior and disability care needs and how to achieve them. As Obama begins response, CNN cuts to voiceover talking about his former pastor.

Culpability.

Do the media know how contemptible they are? Do the on-air teleprompter readers have to trank themselves to keep taking paychecks for selling out the integrity of their profession?

Every time they continue the Wright meme, they are no better than pimps on the streetcorner.

She needs to step aside? When did this stop being America?

She should run until she doesn’t want to anymore. If Obama can’t beat her now, he shouldn’t be running at all.

Frankly, if Obama wants to walk his talk and embody some New Politics, this gives him an excellent opportunity to rise above the attacks without resorting to negativity (afterall, he’s won already, riiiiiight?).

One could argue that Clinton may as well be the engineer of her own destruction. The alternative is for the superdelegates to intervene prematurely. That would be disasterous.

What does it say about HRC that she’s so willing to destroy her own party in an effort to achieve personal power….

well – without tryin’ to be a dick, it says that she is entirely willing to submarine her own (?) party if she isn’t given the tiara.

Prom-Queen or reverse Carrie – take your choice, at your peril.

I for one don’t find the word, liberal, any type of insult, rather it is a compliment. the tactics being used is the problem but folks are going to see it through their own lenses and I respect that.

But I agree with an earlier post, that this has been a self reveal time

Dobson and Penn could at least take the time and trouble to come up with a good lie. You know something we might believe…for five minutes.
Now preblogging such a lie might have worked on people who were not to informed especially if it was repeated endlessly.
But today even if you are not aware of Penn or Dobson’s reputation’s five minutes here can prove quite educational.
Plus America is paying attention this election, do we have any way of measuring the level of attention and comparing it to past elections, like the election after Nixon resigned?
Penn and Dobson are fighting the last war when cheap lies were more easily believed and while the press still believes the American people have moved on, they trust the press less than ever now.

She’s had tea and cookies in more than 80 countries.

Seriously, her transparent subtext is that she’s ready From Day One because it’ll really be a co-presidency again. She can’t come right out and admit that she got inside dope on classified stuff while Bill was Prez, but some things are obviously implicit.

this gives him an excellent opportunity to rise above the attacks without resorting to negativity

Read Obama’s speech?

Everybody makes mistakes but when you are running on a platform of experience you should not make so many crass avoidable ones as the CLinton campaign has. It undermines the brand.

My two questions on the Clinton campaign remain: Does anyone think at this point she can win the nomination? And if she can’t, why is she staying actively in the race?

Whoope drive by sage.

Okay, has anyone seen James Dobson and Mark Penn in a room/photo together at the same time?

There you go, mystery solved!

I prefer to see her struggle in Pennsylvania and then get destroyed in North Carolina and Indiana. The debate would end then with a decisive judgment and much gnashing of teeth. But I have a mean streak.

Because this is Merica and she can goddamn do what ever she want to! She risked her life on Bosnia to preserve that right for all of us.

“The alternative is for the superdelegates to intervene prematurely. That would be disasterous.”
_________

Intervening at the convention would be much better.

;)

But, yeah, she can fight all the way to Denver, I’m with ya there.

I am supporting Obama and am angry that Hillary has run such an ugly campaign, but I also feel a little sorry for her. For eight years she went through absolute hell and managed to keep going. I can’t even imagine what that must have been like. I think she wants desperately to prove herself and has done all the wrong things.

I agree. It sort of reminds me of show and tell time, when second and third graders tell what the did over the summer. It turns out some single handedly rescued tourist villages near Yellowstone, with wildfires approaching from four directions. Fine Hillary, you can sit down.

The Scaife interview. Clinton’s appearance on Limbaugh at the same time Limbaugh was urging crossover votes. The McCain endorsement. Using “liberal” as an epithet.

These are “mistakes”?

Knut provides a plausible answer to why she’s staying in the race @55.

Yes this is America. we’ve had 8 years of lies and hell because people don’t care about the consititution but rather about grabbing power. I have yelled at the top of my lungs about it. I voted for HRC in the primary but she has shown herself to be truth challenged. If I am going to demand the truth from bush why would I give her a pass. She is attacking the other dem with repuke talking points, it’s insane. I for one don’t want anything to do with it.

Best bet would be for Obama to talk about Iraq, Healthcare, the economy and ignore Hillary.

Is that mean, probably but I’m a bit cranky today and just want this to end

Sheet, she could have walked but it wasn’t in her plan.

She really might be senile or she is lying either way she can’t be president.
Nor can McCain for that matter who if after being in the Senate still can’t tell the difference between a Sunni and Shia should just give up and go back to school.

LOL I overlooked that part.

and while the press still believes the American people have moved on, they trust the press less than ever now.

damn – I wish you were right.

I smell a Medal of Freedom in this for her valor. After all, she has lived up to the standards established by prior recipients…

Is that mean, probably but I’m a bit cranky today and just want this to end

ZOMG! Sanity. I’m going to lunch.

===========
OT-just heard on local radio–

jennifer bruner/head cheese in ohio said that cuyahoga voters who crossed party lines shouldn’t be prosecuted……said it is free speech.

don’t know if her word is the last word, they didn’t say that part. i think it has to go through her.

she’s trying to do a good job here, but it does say on the ballot that it is a felony–you are pledging to the democratic party, if it’s a lie, it’s a felony…….

don’t think rush has heard yet, i’m listening to see what he says, remember, this was the first step to charging him with voter fraud, or whatever they were calling it.

dunno

Women rarely walk away. I’ll give her this – she is a fighter.

He gave two major speeches last week (Wright/race, Iraq) and plans a speech on the economy.

Meanwhile, Clinton is talking to Scaife.

With oak leaf cluster

How do you do a raseberry emoticon?

Allow me to offer some much needed perspective — I think you’re all missing the most important point: Bill Richardson was inconsistent in justifying his vote for Obama.

well, well, well

over at Big Orange, Devilstower has a post about post-Obama speech numbers – every indication his giving people enough credit to make up their own minds was the right path

link

Oh yeah, that whole Iraq thing, “heckuva job, Hill…” thanks for the vote. Will the Iran vote get the same rhetorical ju-jitsu?

HRC, Preznit Dunce Cap’s fave Democrat?

Gee, don’t be so hard on me this morning. :)

The Clinton legacy is and has been the damaging of the Democratic Party. Bill left the party in shambles.

-G

Hey, this is the big leagues, and our collective future is at stake. Maybe it’s because I’ve never had the good luck to benefit from pity in this life, but I can’t countenance worrying about her feelings. She has earned and been given a lot, and doesn’t seem to worry about the feelings of others in her pursuit of the nomination. Geez, she will still have a lot of power, a nice house, plenty to eat, full-benefit healthcare, and fame that will last for centuries. What she doesn’t get is no worry to me.

It was for her, not you. Morning, where are you Bankok?

and the horse she rode in on

California and it’s beautiful today. Hope it is in Georgia, too.

I’m not missing anything as I could are less why he is voting the way he is. I’m all for the sups declaring as soon as possible so we can get this shit over with and move on to McCaint

there’s a fucking MALE on my MSNBC!!!

Dammit – if I’m gonna hate somebody, at least (she) could be attractive.

/pig

Yeah, and that too, for what its worth.

Um first she has to train the horse to become a Triple-Crown winner while avoiding sniper fire, gang violence and feeding kids without lunches. Then she can ride in on it with attendant Murdoch-owned media in tow.

Doesn’t sound mean to me. I would rather have Obama talk issues. It would give him an edge. Of course, MSM will probably voice-over to Brittany’s latest performance. It doesn’t matter. He needs to keep at it and let other camps wallow in the slime.

MSM reminds me of toddlers throwing a temper tantrum in which they literally cannot stop the behavior. Like a strong parent, Obama needs to take control of the dialogue and let MSM drop off.

You have to know me as a person to understand my statement. I’m usually a very sweet person and try to be fair and find the nice things in folks but as of today, I’m over it

I’m sorry if my comment seemed to contain any ill-will.

agreed.

LOL at Brittney voice over

The inseparable Clintons must be run out of the democratic party, they
never were democrats anyway. We are trying to build a new party with
new leaders over more than one election cycle. If the Clinton meltdown
cannot stop of itself, then leadership must be shown by some senior
party members, have a sit down and break the bad news, intervention
if you want to call it that… they are both sick, no joke, sick on
all that adulation and money that surrounds “Elvis” and”‘Cilla”…
High school melodrama marketed as a presidential campaign is a guaranteed
loser.

“We simply cannot tolerate this. Enough.”

Agreed. What to do?

yep.

While we’ve all been sitting on the sidelines – not wanting to get involved in the primary – Hillary Clinton has hung on, and is now desperate.

We should have seen this coming, maybe we could have done something about it.

Hard part is, people I know and respect are completely invested in her campaign. My mother has become one of those idiots “boycotting” DailyKos.

I hope someone steps in and puts her (Hillary) out of our misery soon. My god, she was sitting with Scaife yesterday – it’s a new low every day.

I watched the Watergate hearings daily. There does seem to be a difference between that crowd and this. It may be due to the stronger Democrats and more decent Republicans in hearings, but almost all of that crowd ended up hanging their heads in shame (except of Pat Buchanon). They all knew they violated laws and the intent of the Constintution. Also, many were young ambitious guys led along by old time horses asses.

His crowd seems blatant and shameless, and about half the illegalities were facilitated by the young guys, like Yu.

In one case, you turn on the lights and cock roaches run for cover. In this case, the flick you off and go on doing whatever they were doing.

Actually I have been arguing in the LateLatenight threads to the anger of some that Hilary should stay in the race longer because this is a presidential Primary election and both candidates need to appeal to the Democratic LeftWing Base. The longer the race goes on the further Left we can drag both candidates to the Center 70%er position.
Although to be fair I was wrong Hilary has instead chosen to go personal rather than debate the issues because the issues have a Lefty bias.
I think Hilary will explode now I think Penn is wrong about his polling. I trust concern trolls like Dobson to help liberals like I trust Klansmen hitchhiking.

You can’t always get what you want, but if you try sometime…

Hillary was a shoe-in as a US Senator from New York (’Cept she was a carpetbagger) in her first attempt at the esteemed office. She’s got lots of money and she doesn’t have to work another day in her life. She made her bed as a centrist warhawk. She decided to piss on her liberal constituents. She decided to perpetuate Bushco lies, instead of telling some truth and creating her own narrative.

Obama’s got some of the same flaws. I don’t feel sorry for either of them, but I will hold my nose and vote for the nominee. That’s waht they both are banking on and why they piss on liberals in their quest for the low information voter.

No, it didn’t. I just had to clarify that for me, this is a big deal. I’m very use to finding the good in people and focusing on that but she is making it increasingly difficult for me to do so.

oops – in an *incredibly*, seriously amazingly short story, on MSNBC – probably ten seconds or less – they mentioned that there is a monstrous shit-storm going down in Basra.

Casualties are high – available air-time however, is regrettably low.

I hate this fucking war!!!!

(h/t Ed Teller)

I guess that I operate from the perspective that these people are supposed to be our collective employees. I’ve never had an employer that gave one whit about my problems. If Obama sometime in the future disappoints me as an employee, I’ll be damned if I don’t express that feeling and not worry about him, either.

Do you really think a male candidate who wept publicly while lamenting how hard campaigning is, how it makes you fat, would have laster another day?

Just visited MYDD. Those people are CRAZEE@#$%@.

Doesn’t matter what the topic, within 2 comments it turns into an Obama-hatefest. Non-fucking-stop.

And if you think there was an implication with that Judas remark that Hillary was Jesus? Jesus is not ready on day 1. And Tony Rezko once prayed to Jesus. And Jesus never won the big states. And the sermon on the mount was just a speach. Jesus only walked on water, Hillary rises above the water.

Covering fighting and dying would cut into their coverage of Rev. Wright. Can’t have that.

We all need to Hope. Besides newspaper circulation is going down for a reason. Clearchannel Rush Limpballs radio network can’t even get bought out by a hedgefund because the stockprice keeps dropping in value. Rupert’s Newscorp is also having trouble.
When news can’t sell when we have a war going on something must be wrong.
I think its that nobody trusts the media.
But I am willing to entertain suggestions.

At first I thought the superdelegates were kind of a slap in the face to voters.
But I can now see that there may be a reason to have them.
And I think they do have a job to do to prevent to insure that the Dems do have an electable candidate.

Hillary cannot win without the sups overturning the voters choice- Obama.
Obama is going to have a much harder chance in the election with what Hillary is doing and with McCain going unchallenged. Enough is enough. Isn’t the whole purpose of the superdelegates to prevent what is now happening?

I do not say Hillary must drop out. If she wants to continue the races, fine. But they are already meaningless as far as the outcome the voters will choose. So the superdelegates ought to weigh in now and reinforce what the voters have already have decided. Then Obama can focus on McCain and Hillary can do whatever she pleases but she won’t be allowed to pull so much press coverage.

As we all should do. Your right, they work for us and are accountable to us but aaarrggghhhh I’m tired of this school yard bull shit. I want this ended already cause I have a lot of ire that I was saviong for McCaint but Hillary is drawing on it and on my last nerve

…That’s what they both are banking on and why they piss on liberals in their quest for the low information voter.

LOL! The low information voter…ha ha ha, the perfect description of the sheeple so sought after by the master political manipulators. The “low information voter” a rare and valuable commodity until the first Wednesday in November.

I still think that her negative attacks will only make him stronger in the long run, and that the May 6 thunderclap will further solidify the party leaders into Obama’s column. But you could be right.

Yeah, it is batshit nut over there and taylor marsh’s place too but in fairness it isn’t exactly shrill free over at the orange overlord’s place either.

Clinton should kind of follow the Huckabee road, hang around in case he collapses but stay the F out of the way otherwise.

The current Cushing spot price for crude oil is $105.61/bbl. There is no particular reason for this price rise. I look at it as hedge fund money sloshing back and forth between stocks and commodities as stocks go up or down and according to the fluctuating value of the dollar. None of it makes much sense and gives me the image of the smart guys who ran the casino on the Titanic.

Can anyone explain why she sat down for an editorial review with Scaife? I’m am speechless over that (more so than the Tuzla tongue tangle)

Egads…HRC…toast.:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..595/484508

Imagine the millions that feel the same way and will be unleashing at McCain with even more wrathfulness as a result of having to wait. The longer the volcano has to wait to explode the larger the eruption. Personally I don’t think ole Johnny is gonna be able to cope with it. Obama will rip him apart, with logic and cool rhetoric.

I wouldn’t take it so personally. At a certain point Clinton was boxed in by her own “experience/inevitability” strategy. Less charitably, in hackworth’s words right up aboove, “she made her bed as a centrist war hawk”. Meanwhile, if she hadn’t made hay out of Wright, Republicans were going to anyway.

It’s not who she is that’s the problem, it’s what she is. On the domestic front she represents DLC corporate
“centrists”, while in foreign policy she’s the standard bearer for “liberal hawks” and, as a Senator from New York, a representive of the Democratic wing of the Israel lobby.

Obama started as a bit of an empty vessel, but he has increasingly been defined by contrast Clinton, to his benefit. He also brings rare intellect and talent, and can (again in hackworth’s phrase) “create his own narrative”, as witnessed by his amazingly skilled and sensitive speech.

It’s a political battle, and she’s competitive. You should be disappointed, however, that she brought nothing new or positive to this fight, just a kind of “experience” we’re already acquainted with.

raven at 60—i just saw it, thanks for the bernstein quote. (drove me nuts that it wouldn’t load.)

but like i said, he hates hillary’s guts……still.

kinda like asking the browns coach what he thinks about the bengals.

except with the coaches, at least they SAY they hate each other out front…

lol

saying ’hillary’ to him is like saying ’BOO’!

funny, thanks.

Hilary is running what I expected to be the GOP game plan for November Personal smear and avoid the issues. So if Obama defeats her then McCain’s expected attacks will be discredited before hand.

Good god – have you all listened to yourselves? Talk about a negative campaign – I’ve never heard more hatred directed towards one of our own! You all are attacking Hillary more than Bush, Cheney, McIdiot, or any other republican hack! Look, I’ll vote for Clinton, Obama, Gore, or whoever else is the nominee – I WILL NOT attack one of them for absurd, lame ass reasons that both sides are doing. Remember Obama saying he’d never heard controversial things from his Reverend? Yeah, that was a little “miss-speak.” Big deal! They all do it! One side is not more clean than the other! I will vote for the democratic nominee, but I also want to say “enough all ready!” It sounds as though some of you would rather have any one but Clinton – does that sound familiar? “But but but Clinton?” Snap out of it and act like a democrat! (Sorry for all the exclamations – but I’m TIRED of the petty sniping that BOTH sides are perpetrating!

ahhh so true sooo true!!

Question posed by Chris Satullo, INKY Newspaper

the image of the smart guys who ran the casino on the Titanic.

happy about all the money they were making and not wanting to end the game until their feet started to get wet?

Haven’t you arrived at the answer yet? Because she wanted the Wright issue reinjected into the campaign through an amenable media outlet.

Lovely speech notwithstanding, Wright is damaging to Obama, as it will be in the general election. Just not disqualifying, though, which was one of Clinton’s last chances.

Yeah, I thought about that too. If their big contention is that some deep dark secret will be discovered or the Republican bullshit will bring Obama down in flames before the convention, she’ll still be around. She could even say she rotisseried squirrel over a bunson burner and nobody could prove otherwise.

That would get Gore nominated.

We will see if Wright was damaging or not. As Hillary’s connection to ‘the Family’ is now getting some air, I’m sure she might want to drop the whole Wright ‘issue’

If Hillary can’t distinguish between vigorously competing in a war game with a general in her own army and fighting the enemy, she doesn’t deserve command.

What’s “the Family”? Link?

hrc is a rethug in dem clothing imo….

http://www.motherjones.com/new…..rayer.html

but site is down at the moment. there are also pieces over at huff post

Here is what I just sent to the Hillary campaign website:

Enough. Just enough. Now you are sitting down with the despicable Richard Melon Scaife? The man who funded the hunting of the president? This, after you praise McCain, with his feeble command of facts, as presidential material? This, after the significant “misspeak,” which inflated the danger in Bosnia?

Among those I speak to, there is disbelief and disillusionment that someone once respected has sunk so low and betrayed what we thought were shared values.

Please put the country’s interests above your own. You and your surrogates must stop trashing Democrats and making common cause with right-wingers.

Did you even read my comment?

Yeah, but she’s not pleased with the cut of the cloth. Makes her feel icky…

i dont have a link – not too savvy pc-wise but the family is a group of rightwing fundamentalist senators mostly who meet and have prayer and bible study sessions in dc and hrc is a member of said group

LMAO!!!!

http://firedoglake.com/2008/03…..ur-pastor/

obviously people missed this post.

wobbly at 199-enough already….

and brendanx there were links in the last thread, the first one at #7

i am reposting what i wrote then—

katymine in response to brendanx–see my post at 159–and to all-i wasn’t trying to sound ’pissy’, well, maybe i was, it’s just that this ’she’s a neo-con’ talk about clinton attending a conservative group-meet regularly is so jaded and closed-minded that i don’t even know where to start………

my whole life i have embraced things and people whom i do not agree with, i learned loads…….if i ever ran for public office, and my associations were ’interpreted’, gee, it would be entertaining. i wouldn’t make it to the primary.

how many people actually put their money where there mouth is and do that?

i would make a leap and say, not the ones bashin’ her for it. or they would understand what it is.

so, let’s stick to substance.

there’s plenty of that to feed on.

http://jeffsharlet.blogspot.co…..-post.html

Thanks. Oh, brother.

I love this quote: “there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer.”

I suspect you’ll agree that what kind of “Jesus talk” they infect themselves with is irrelevant to how any Democrat would govern, and the same, at this point of open war against Roe v. Wade, is true of Republicans.

It’s bullshit I’d ordinarily ignore. But as an Obama supporter that it’s bullshit that will only hurt him, because his “Jesus talk” came out of the mouth of an angry black man.

i think i read that before…. thanx as a formerpentecostal fundy i know a bit about these folks…

There are over 200 comments. Which one are you referring to?

enough already to what? the question about wright came up and whether or not it is/will continue to be a problem for Obama. i offered up the developing sotry about her ties to ‘the family’ that as that comes to light she may not want to talk about religion and/or pastors and such.

Please don’t try to hint that i’m bashing by making the reference above because it is far from the truth

sander0—i haven’t caught up on all comments, your questions about why someone would join a group so dissimilar from them, but one is, for the same reason that people join book clubs.

to get a different point of view.

I only have one – at 192.

Neoconservative is a political designation first and foremost, she has
the voting record, associations, advisors and public stance of a neocon.
The problem is she is not the only one in the DLC, the DLC is a neocon
front in the democratic party… top down democracy is not democracy.

Sorry, I found it. But I don’t march to your drummer either.

I’ve fought Bush for years, before he was elected. I’ve given money. I’ve left the country for a year and a half. I’ve come back. I will vote for Clinton if she is the nominee. I didn’t ask her to quit the campaign. I asked her to quit these tactics. I am most interested in changing the party in the White House and I’m not entirely sure that that is her highest priority. If what she is doing endangers that goal, I think it is fine to call her on it. I’m not sending my comments to the Republican campaign nor to the media via Letters to the Editor. I took my complaints to the source and also shared them here.

browncoat, being insulted and marginalized by a powerful figure in ” my ” political party is no different than being insulted and marginalized by any other political party leader.
No excuses for throwing a whole lot of us under the bus.

TPM has a troubling letter posted. Major Hillary donors to Nancy Pelosi re superdelegates. “some say” this smacks of extortion….

Snap out of it and act like a democrat!

Actually many of us here are progressives not Democrats. While I agree our central focus is defeating the Republicans and McCain in November, I do not think this means we should ignore the problems with Clinton or Obama neither of whom is very progressive. I continue to wish to hear from anyone why Clinton should stay in a race she clearly can’t win and what point if any she thinks she is making by doing so.

If Hillary is the Democratic nominee I will vote for her. That said, her campaigns consistant misbehavior has just encouraged me to send another large contribution to the Obama campaign. For each “infraction” I’ll send another contribution.

And likely make a few dozen phone calls.

I’m not throwing anyone under the bus – I’m saying that vilifying a candidate for something the other candidate is also doing is absurd. And the vitriol directed towards Hillary in these comments is staggering, especially in light of the original post topic. Staggering, and not something I expected at all from “my” party.

it comes across as heavy handed, that is for sure. but to mention their donation history certainly raises it to the level of extortion (imho)

my browser keeps quitting and closing all of my windows and the tubes are dirt slow today, thinkin’ about goin to do something else…

i posted this by mistake in the last thread, was trying to bring it forward, to here.

crap i posted the wrong comment from the last thread, so the last one at 209 won’t make much sense.

here’s the correct one from the last thread—

i haven’t read all comments yet–

the hillary article at 7– and comments pertaining to it–

i have previously posted here that i was a member of a baptist bible study group for a long long time, i am not baptist, nowhere near it.

i was invited, i went, i learned, they learned. i felt honored to be welcomed and be able to learn what and why they believe what they do…and i was not mistaken for one of ’them’ they knew who i am and what i believe….this church is the center for conservatism here, missionaries and all. people brought up by missionaries, republicans, all walks of life. most conservative church here besides the little pentacostal church and a few little spin-off ’baptist’ churches…….

most churches are methodist here.

to say that she is like fellow group attendees, like sam brownback, is just simply BULLSHIT. drawing conclusions.

i went to this baptist church every single week, that makes me a baptist and believer and follower of their doctrines and politics???????????

c’mon, we’re supposed to not meet and hang with anyone but people who believe every single thing we do?

same as obama did? /s

i don’t think so.

and one last comment about the ’group’ from the last thread.

sander0—i haven’t caught up on all comments, your questions about why someone would join a group so dissimilar from them, but one is, for the same reason that people join book clubs.

to get a different point of view.

Reply

Leave your respon

not all are vilifying, some have issues with her stance on the war, some with her campaign tactics and some with her personal behavior.

i think there are sometimes good reasons for candidates to stay in a race that they aren’t going to win – if they use the platform and media attention to address some issue they care about – chris dodd’s campaign and fisa, for example.

is senator clinton doing any of that? i don’t watch much msm, so i don’t feel comfortable saying she’s not – maybe she is and i don’t know it?

Zed! and HRC is pissing on our brand like a Goldwater Girl!

I have no compunctions about saying that with her support of flag-burning legislation to further restrict freedom of expression and take away the means for nonviolent political expression, and the big, wet, full-tongued verbal french kisses she and her surrogates have been giving McBush, Hillary’s looking more and more like a Republican everyday.

Allow me to offer some much needed perspective — I think you’re all missing the most important point: Bill Richardson was inconsistent in justifying his vote for Obama.

And let me say once again: WHO THE HELL CARES!

(((selise))) as of late, she isn’t

merk at 217–what does that have to do with going a bi-partisan, christian group? only neo-cons are christians?

oh wait, iread it again, are you addressing what i said about addressing substance? if so, no, i wouldn’t call her a neo-con…….

a neo-con?????? you’re aware of all of the crimes they have plotted and committed against the people in the world?

and you’re calling her a neo-con?

not by any stretch of the imagination, and i find that offensive every time i hear that–that’s just as disgusting as someone calling barack the *n* word in my book.

thank you!

Seconded.

thanks for the info… well then, i can’t think of a reason.

if i were her though, i wouldn’t quit just now – i’d follow the dodd model and use the media attention to try to further some cause that is important to me. why waste the opportunity?

moves are being made now i think to deny obama the nom….just a gut feeling i have…………….

Not by a long shot is you counterpoise correct. You have just slandered
me to poorly make your point… I do not post here for that kind of
schoolboy talk. Good Day, Sir!

Is this a bigger problem than we thought?
Clinton role in health program disputed – her pivotal role questioned

I wish she would do that in fact I said further up in the thread that Obama should just ignore her and focus on Iraq, economy, etc and forget all this school yard silliness

if it is perceived as the party denying him something that he has rightly won, the party splits and it’s over. I just don’t see tha party doing that again. They knoew they would lose the south for a generation for the civil rights movement support and they are not about to do that to themselves again with another generation

That’s fine, Obama can do that, but HRC seems to demand a lot of press attention with her tactics.
That’s the problem. She has the power and ready press to divert attention.
She even met with Scarife. Doesn’t that send a message about what she is willing to do?

Someone needs to step in and keep her from killing the Dem chances in Nov.
For the good of everyone, it needs to stop now.

Sarcasm.

It would be naive to think that this is just the MSM focusing on scandal. She is running a fierce political campaign and trying to drive the coverage with these….issues.

I thought I should have put *g* in just as soon as I submitted the comment! Sorry, but I actually ultimately thought that was what you meant by that. OTOH, you also should have put /s after it so we don’t have to guess. After all, Jane seemed quite serious when she did all three of her posts on the subject, and they garnered a lot of comments, for some ungodly reason. I myself didn’t wake up until about halfway through the first post. Again, sorry!

What is the point of this diary? – other than to rachet up Hillary-hate.
It’s true – Repubs and Indys are having buyers remorse after learning info about Obama the media has concealed until most of the primaries were over.
Obama pissed all over universal health care with his “Harry and Louise” ads against Hillary – similar ads the Insurance industry used in 1993-94 to oppose ANY KIND of health care plan!!!

Obama also bashed part of the Dem base – unions and trial lawyers.

The point of the diary is that we do not use “liberal” as an epithet in the Democrat(ic) party. For any reason. Under any conditions. Without exception. I have no idea what part of Obama’s message might have been interpreted as bashing part of the Dem base, but using “liberal” the way Mark Penn uses liberal is pissing off ALL of the Dem base.

The same New Yorker article had this little vignette:

“Before the Iowa caucuses in 2004, a Democratic group ran an advertisement that showed an image of Osama bin Laden with a voice-over saying, “Howard Dean just cannot compete with George Bush on foreign policy.” Robert Gibbs, the spokesperson for the group, is now Obama’s communications director.”

If Mark Penn is to be pilloried for using the term “liberal” to denote Obama’s potential unelectability in the general election, what about Gibbs association with the Bin Laden knock on Dean in the previous election? Or is that too far back? OTOH, Hillary has been attacked here on matters associated with Bill’s term in the office. Sauce for the goose not good enough for the chosen gander?

Notwithstanding how awesomely Vichy Dems have served us with their NAFTA-, Patriot Act- and war-greenlighting and all, calling the National Journal “non-partisan and highly respected” is the equivalent of saying Paris Hilton is wholesome and erudite. And not a waste of fucking skin and air. Gotta wonder who Penn considered to be his audience. Does he expect fucking 2-year-olds to be of the “conservative” pedigree he seems to be targeting?

This shit has jumped the shark.

What is the point of this diary? – other than to rachet up Hillary-hate.

First of all, it’s obvious you’re not from around these parts or you wouldn’t be referring to a front page post as a “diary.” These are not diaries; they are posts. Furthermore, (and secondly) I really don’t think the media deliberately concealed anything until most of the primaries were over; in other words, if the media was doing their damn jobs, you would have had a reasonable expectation of having this information much earlier, but they aren’t doing their jobs even adequately and haven’t been for years. Where have you been? I think it’s more likely someone got some oppo research and planted it for the media to find “during the course of their own research” so that no one could accuse them of being low down and dirty, because we all know that if you don’t spoon feed the media, they don’t get it at all.

Thirdly, Josh Marshall says he watched the whole of the sermons involved and, in context, they did not seem as bad as they sound on those sound bites they keep playing in a twenty four hour loop. And just for the record, I, too, thought some of the things that White said sounded pretty bad, mostly the “G–D— America” parts. But Obama did not say them; Jeremiah White did. However, Obama’s speech assuaged most of my reservations.

Fourth, as Obama said, we can talk about the revelations made of what Obama’s preacher said in Sunday sermons for however many Sundays they made on in several different ways:

We can accept a politics that breeds division, and conflict, and cynicism. We can tackle race only as spectacle – as we did in the OJ trial – or in the wake of tragedy, as we did in the aftermath of Katrina – or as fodder for the nightly news. We can play Reverend Wright’s sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she’s playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.

We can do that.

But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we’ll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change.

Fifth, Hillary has done many things to offend the largest minority within the Democratic Party, that would be us Liberal/Progressive activists. Her wholehearted support for flag-burning legislation is not the least of her insults. Neither is her taking on Rethug talking points by trying to use the term “Liberal” like it was a dirty word. And once again I’ll say, just in case you missed it the first time: the big, wet, full-tongued verbal french kisses she and her surrogates have been giving McBush, is making Hillary’s look more and more like a Republican everyday.

Sixth, I really don’t like the scorched earth campaigning that she’s been doing. Some are saying that it’s just politics and it’s to be expected. But she’s doing some uncalled for smear tactics, as are her surrogates, including her husband. If we end up losing this election because her smears ultimately convinced people that she is right, McCain is better than either she or Obama, I will never forgive “the Clintons” and she, nor any other Clinton, will ever get my vote again.

Lastly, why can’t Hillary just say, not this time, and start talking about the issues and quit making assertions that are not defensible, including the Tuzla incident that she said she remembered when video tape proved her memory more imagination than truth?

Billary cares more 4 Billary then Party or Country ! Hillary is a closet RePIGlican , , ,

“Hillary has done many things to offend the largest minority within the Democratic Party, that would be us Liberal/Progressive activists.”

Ann, from what I understand Hillary has been winning the registered democratic vote in most primaries. I am a long-time registered democrat in CA and I just don’t hear the type of anger and hatred posted here (see the preceding comment) expressed by my fellow democrats in my precinct. There is healthy skepticism about Obama’s relative experience, and a lot of irritation with how the mainstream media have piled onto Hillary. I sometimes wonder if the more egregious comments made here are by people who have never associated with the democratic party in the first place.

… Obama and Hilary are to the right of 70% of the American people on ending the war now!

They are to the Right of the majority on healthcare! … After all Penn and Dobson only know about bashing Liberals.

To some people Liberal is anybody who doesn’t bow down and repeat the Conservative Bush party line.

That the two final Democratic candidates, Clinton and Obama, were the two most conservative Dems indicates the powerful in America simply won’t let any normal Democratic candidate win the presidency.

I think there is a sickness in America. Where George W. Bush is allowed to walk around free of impeachment and conviction and all Democrats, save Hillary, are called Liberal (in a derogatory way) there is a dismissal of a very large percentage of the American public (who don’t think Obama is very far to the Left). Who dismisses that candidate dismisses the electorate who would support him or her.

Who are these people who toss out so much of the public? How do they get away with it? What harm does it do to Democracy and America? What can be done to shift the balance of power to a more survivable place?

What we have here is a terrible imbalance of power.

she has veracity issues

verasimilitudinosity

It closely bears a similarity to veracity, but you just know it’s triangulation by another spelling.

I do not understand how she could behave so stupidly.

There is a reason, but don’t waste your time on it. Just know her show is closing soon.

Encouraging signs of leadership are an endangered species these days.

John Edwards has faced the death of his son and the fear of the death of his wife Elizabeth and knows more clearly than most the “urgency of now”.

I hope Obama recognizes that and it’s positive implications.

… almost all of that crowd [Watergate era] ended up hanging their heads in shame (except of Pat Buchanon). They all knew they violated laws and the intent of the Constintution. Also, many were young ambitious guys led along by old time horses asses.

His crowd seems blatant and shameless, and about half the illegalities were facilitated by the young guys, like Yu.

It’s part of a strategy which I believe the Bush mafia has used to gain power. They offer the moon to every significant interest group in exchange for the presidency. This enabled the party to unite as never before and they took the whole government. But, with that power came the rest of the mess and whatever it has been that the Bush people want (still probably not well known if you ask me).

It’s pander politics at it’s absolute worst.

One group they’ve pandered to is ideological. The’ve basically told them for decades that they can ignore Democrat (sic) rule and laws and just thumb their noses at Democrats. This uninhibiting influence has produced some pretty dramatic moments and disgusting behavior, but it also got the Bush people some very dedicated supporters.

They gave tax cuts to the rich and probably bought off a lot of the media. They got the MIC behind them with promises of war. They got the Jewish support for the same reason. They have the Evangelicals support by promising Armageddon or Rapture or something.

It’s a very unholy alliance.

What I’d like to know is what think-tank put it all together and what exactly, besides having the presidency, does the Bush family get out of this.

Ann, from what I understand Hillary has been winning the registered democratic vote in most primaries. I am a long-time registered democrat in CA and I just don’t hear the type of anger and hatred posted here (see the preceding comment) expressed by my fellow democrats in my precinct. There is healthy skepticism about Obama’s relative experience, and a lot of irritation with how the mainstream media have piled onto Hillary. I sometimes wonder if the more egregious comments made here are by people who have never associated with the democratic party in the first place.

Well, SueN, I’m glad that you have coping devices such that you can believe whatever you want to believe; we all should. But if “Hillary has been winning the registered democratic vote in most primaries,” as you say, then it seems to me that she would be ahead in the popular vote, and probably also in the delegate count. But she’s not, she’s way behind and she’s been trying to make up for that by throwing poo on the one who is ahead of her. And in so doing, she is openly stating that McCain, who is my Senator and has never stood up for even what he says he believes in, like campaign finance reform or torture, is a better choice than Obama. To me, that is apostacy to the Democratic party! For that, and also for her abandonment of some democratic principals, like freedom of expression, and her vote on the Authority to Use Military Force and her failure to admit that vote was a mistake, I am angry with her. She is a lawyer; how could she essentially vote for a contract that gives a blank check to this President? I am doubly angry when she tries to use race or religion against Obama. Those “as far as I know,” and “there’s no proof that Obama is not a Christian,” comments were unacceptable. I think that’s dirty pool.

Just so you know, I voted for Bill Clinton twice, and I felt that their marital problems, including his infidelity were a matter between them and had no real affect on his governance. I, therefore, felt we had no business prying into these matters to begin with. Furthermore, I thought and I still think he was a good President, did a hell of a job, and could have been a great president if he hadn’t given his own enemies so much ammunition to try to hurt him. But he did, so he was only good not great. I also felt that the left, of which I am one, tried to push him too far to the left during his first term. Around here, that’s heresy, but I still feel it would have made it too hard to govern and the majority of the country was not there yet, so nothing would have gotten accomplished if he tried further than he did to hold out for further left positions. I think that’s why Democrats lost their majority of Congress. Unfortunately, I feel that there are currently way too many blue dog Dems in Congress currently, and the country is there now to go further left, on healthcare for instance. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have some horror story about healthcare.

I also started out this race with “healthy skepticism about Obama’s relative experience”, and up until the South Carolina race I thought she ran a pretty good race and I was also annoyed when some insensitive comments were made about her. Chris Matthews comment about how she wouldn’t be where she is today if her husband hadn’t cheated on her was way over the top and unacceptable. Therefore, it seems to me that Geraldine Ferraro’s comment about Obama, done as her surrogate, should also be viewed as unacceptable, and yet it took what, nearly a week for her to say that’s not how she wants to run her own campaign? By then, I could see the handwriting on the wall. What I’m saying is that if anyone convinced me to take another look at Obama and pushed me into his camp, it was Hillary, herself.

And just to set the record straight, I am a white woman, approaching 63 years old fast, and I was born a Democrat, as my parents were before me. My father was a politician. I have never voted Republican in my life, and I don’t foresee that I ever will.

Who’s “they?”

Ann, as you know many of the democratic caucuses and primaries are open, and it isn’t only registered democrats who participate in them. I read somewhere that Hillary typically gets a plurality of registered democratic votes, while Obama gets the independent and the majority of the African American vote to put him slightly on top. But my response was made towards the assertion that liberal-progressives were the largest minority in the democratic party and were uniformly offended by her. As for everything else it appears to very much be a rashomon effect in that we all see and weigh the same thing quite differently. I believe that the last time matters were viewed so starkly different was the O.J. Simpson trial. OTOH I may just have a distorted and exaggerated overview of matters from spending time on liberal-progressive blogs, and the reality everywhere else isn’t so Manichean. Take care.