I wonder what Paul Krugman, who has pointed to Alan Greenspan's role in fostering the current financial crisis, would think of asking Greenspan to help decide if the US should help rescue home owners, and not just the Wall Street financial giants. From Reuters:
WHITE PLAINS, New York (Reuters) - Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan and other economic experts should determine whether the U.S. government needs to buy up homes to stem the country's housing crisis, Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton will propose on Monday.
Clinton, a presidential candidate and senator from New York, said the Federal Housing Administration should "stand ready" to buy, restructure and resell failed mortgages to strengthen the ailing U.S. economy. . . .
Clinton threw her weight behind legislation proposed by Democrats Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts and Senator Chris Dodd of Connecticut that would "expand the government's capacity to stand behind mortgages that are reworked on affordable terms."But she said a bipartisan group should determine whether that approach was sufficient or whether the U.S. government should step in as a temporary purchaser.
The working group could be led by bipartisan economic heavyweights such as Republican Greenspan, Democratic former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker and Robert Rubin, the treasury secretary under President Bill Clinton.
Under the Frank plan, the government would take failing mortgages off the hands of investors and write new terms that would prevent foreclosure. It would see lenders write down the mortgage amount in exchange for a government guarantee.
Krugman has been beating the drums for more closely regulating the financial industry, which has taken over much of the mortgage market once held by regulated banks and savings and loans. Greenspan has opposed such regulation, and Rubin I suspect is only a recent convert.
Over time, however, many of the roles traditionally filled by regulated banks were taken over by unregulated institutions — the “shadow banking system,” which relied on complex financial arrangements to bypass those safety regulations.
Now, the shadow banking system is facing the 21st-century equivalent of the wave of bank runs that swept America in the early 1930s. And the government is rushing in to help, with hundreds of billions from the Federal Reserve, and hundreds of billions more from government-sponsored institutions like Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Federal Home Loan Banks.
Given the risks to the economy if the financial system melts down, this rescue mission is justified. But you don’t have to be an economic radical, or even a vocal reformer like Representative Barney Frank, the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, to see that what’s happening now is the quid without the quo.
Last week Robert Rubin, the former Treasury secretary, declared that Mr. Frank is right about the need for expanded regulation. Mr. Rubin put it clearly: If Wall Street companies can count on being rescued like banks, then they need to be regulated like banks.
But asking Alan Greenspan? A recent Krugman column reacted to a Greenspan op ed on the current crisis:
Between 2002 and 2007, false beliefs in the private sector — the belief that home prices only go up, that financial innovation had made risk go away, that a triple-A rating really meant that an investment was safe — led to an epidemic of bad lending. Meanwhile, false beliefs in the political arena — the belief of Alan Greenspan and his friends in the Bush administration that the market is always right and regulation always a bad thing — led Washington to ignore the warning signs.
By the way, Mr. Greenspan is still at it: accepting no blame, he continues to insist that “market flexibility and open competition” are the “most reliable safeguards against cumulative economic failure.”
How can government help? Ian Welsh has some suggestions.
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Scarecrow!
Yeah, it’s always a good idea to let everybody who was part of the problem be part of the solution.
That’s basically the entire MCandyCain “pitch,” and Clinton’s for the most part.
It’s also how the MSM likes to deal with the Iraq debacle. I sense a pattern forming….
i for one think this is an EXTREMELY well concieved idea,for any 1%er/OLIGARCH
she in fact is 100% tone deaf
In an entirely different context yesterday, Siun commented about having one’s rapist drive you to the hospital. Hillary’s idea falls in that category.
Greenspan near any levers of economic power ever again in America is madness.
Krugman article is a very good piece. It blames all candidates, but particulary McBush, for not going far enough on this issue…He’s right.
Just what we need Mr Andrea Mitchell who CAUSED the problem to be brought back to fix it…Ya think someone is looking for some better coverage from Andrea by suggesting this?
Did I say that?….my bad, what would make me think such a thing?
707
“Clinton, a presidential candidate and senator from New York, said the Federal Housing Administration should “stand ready” to buy, restructure and resell failed mortgages to strengthen the ailing U.S. economy…”
________
And, it goes without saying that there will be lotta handsome fees to be had for the onerous work of managing these transactions. At the bank where I worked, a favorite saying was “the Best Things in Life are FEE.”
In fact, Greenspan should be run out of town on a rail for allowing something like this to happen. It’s the height of irresponsibility to give the man a say in how to resolve the issue.
There is no way “Bubbles” Greenspan should be involved in a sollution. Why make things worse?
This technique of calling for a bipartisan commission to deal with issues is a staple of the (Bill and Hillary) Clinton governing philosophy. It’s not always bad. If genuinely new and unique issues arise, it’s a good idea to study them carefully.
But nothing is new here. Progressives have a long list of solutions to deal with the mortgage crisis. There’s no need for a commission, especially not one with Greenspan.
yup,the bankers ALWAYS get the vig…going in,and going out,even if YOU loose everything
This is not such a poor idea.
Greenspan, Rubin and Volcker offer star quality [politics is in part theatre], some of the stardust being richly deserved [Rubin and Volker], some not so much [Greenspan], and the three of them offer tri-partisan political cover. As you may know, Volcker is an Obama supporter.
Of course, because the suggestion comes from Hillary, it must be pilloried in the most excessive languge possible.
It would really be nice if we had a campaign in which two people who truly loved America, and were ready to lead America on Day 1, and who weren’t in the pockets of Wall Street firms, could have a discussion of how the Middle Class gets screwed regardless of which party wins.
Wouldn’t it be nice.
JOHN GALT is alive and well,and a member of the FED
Another venerable saying (Michael Lewis): “The firm made money, and the broker made money. Two outa three ain’t bad.”
Why in the name of all or anything holy would I trust Alan fucking Greenspan to anything to fix the mess he’s created?
Duncan sez: Better Wise Old Men of Washington, Please
It’s a stupid idea, no matter who came up with it. In this case, it happens that Hillary Clinton came up with it. Cope.
Clinton still loving Greenspan says all you need to know about where her heart and soul is. The fact that she gives any credence whatsoever to that criminal renders her unfit for office.
As for mortgages, while I have some sympathy for SOME of the victims, I am not really comfortable with propping up mortgages on houses most of the victims should NEVER have bought in the first place! Why should I, who has made proper and reasonable decisions with my money and in my home purchase, help cover the ass of people that bought well above their level?
I hate to sound unsympathetic or cold, but really, where is the reason in helping people hold onto their McMansions when they simply are not economically equipped to be in them in the first place! Why reward their irresponsibility while screwing me on my responsible purchasing? I don’t like buyouts of Wallstreet firms either. They should crash and burn for their irresponsibility too.
How about a compromise? We NOT help people keep their over-reaching McMansions and, instead, agree to extend them mortgages at reasonable rates for homes that they CAN afford in the reality-based universe?
Rubin deregulated the banks and then took a multi-zillion dollar job at Citibank…hes one of the foxes,padding his nest
you know, there really is a simple solution to the mortgage problem
the lendingin industries made bad loans and they knew it, they knew the rates that these loans would grow to would be unafordable and they counted on the housing market to increase in value so these homeowners would be able to refinance when the time came
so they made bad loans, the simple solution is they have to continue the rates ad infinitum, they must be locked into the rates and they are not allowed to for close on those houses unless the homeowner can’t make payments on the original rates
the rates also have to be converted to normal loans, no interest only loans, they have to be converted to the types of loans that pay down the house with every payment
and bing, done, crisis over, those loaners that took the shot that the industry would continue growing would loose their bet
Thanks scarecrow.
icymi, JP Morgan Chase is now increasing its offer to Bear Stearns, from $2/share to $10/share. As per usual, the taxpayers get zero relief.
Bear-Stearns proves tantrums work
It’s another installment of “privatize profits and socialize losses.”
It’s not surprising that Clinton supporters like this approach. This is how the Clintons govern. They put together a bipartisan commission so they can come out with a plan that goes the “third way”. A plan that liberals and conservatives don’t like.
By all means, if people want four more years of that, then vote for Senator Clinton.
yea the bridge and golf playing CEO,could NOT,have been happy with his retirement package on the buyout haahahahahahahahaha
Ian Welsh dealt with that issue in his very good post linked to in the post above.
Alan Greenspan worships at the Ayn Rand altar of economic laissez-faire capitalism, which roughly translates as pirates-R-us.
that seals the deal, I can’t consider voting for her now. Honestly, put someone that incompetent and easily bribed into a position of trust? Hardly.
The Clinton way (the DLC way) is how “moderate” and “the middle” has been shifted ever rightward for the last 20 years.
Hell, the Clintonian “3rd way middle” is where the Rethuglicans were during Nixon’s term. “Middle” doesn’t mean what it used to mean…you know, middle.
Hillary and the Dems who follow her on this are nuts imo. The GOP is playing “kick the can,” with the economy, trying to delay the deflation until Jan 2009 when they can blame it all on the Democrats. By then they’ll have the Fed’s interest rate down to zero and the government won’t have any other option, except to raise taxes.
Dems need to push back hard, right now.
“yup,the bankers ALWAYS get the vig…going in,and going out,even if YOU loose everything”
This is what Jefferson understood about “corporations,” therefore his well reasoned fear for a Republic’s general “well being” being subjected to the lawless actions of corporate aristocrats usurping constitutional checks and balances under the color of law in the quest for endless profit.
Kings, Dukes and corporate cohorts in colonial crime………..
Please someone arrest these traitors. Greenspan, Clinton, and Rubin set the wheels into motion and have reaped huge plunder in the selling of the United States. And that Wall St. shill Hillary wants more. I’d say that matching orange jumpsuits is the perfect conclusion of this conman game.
A must read on Greenspan’s loyalities: Greenspan’s masterful timing
Alan Greenspan keeps on cashing in. The former Fed chief is joining hedge fund Paulson & Co. as an adviser. The move, which comes on the same day that Merrill Lynch (MER) and Citi (C) raise some $21 billion in new capital to offset losses tied to the collapse of the housing bubble, puts Greenspan on the advisory board of the firm that has been among the biggest winners in betting against subprime mortgage-related securities. Greenspan, who has also been busy promoting his book, already advises bond shop Pimco and Germany’s Deutsche Bank, The Wall Street Journal points out.
http://dailybriefing.blogs.for.....ul-timing/
Laura,
was just looking for this Volker piece (1 pager) when I saw Duncan’s post -
Volker 05 Warning
Hillary is so beltway.
Robert Rubin was the best Secretary of the Treasury in the last half century. Period.
To suggest he took actions as Secretary of the Tresury to line his own pockets is really beyond the pale.
Do you have any idea of how much money he forfieted as a result of his years of public service as Secretary of the Treausury?
I respectfully disagree. Greenspan wants socialism for the most wealthy. The discipline of the markets is for the little people.
It deserves being pilloried because it is a stupid idea.
Well, part of the problem is that the McMansions these “over-reachers” purchased are rapidly becoming homes they can afford. It’s the McMansion-sized mortgages that are the problem. Your solution — putting people in homes with mortgages they can afford — may be possible without anyone needing to move. Prices (and therefore values) are dropping, fast.
Making the lenders adjust their huge mortgages down to the value of the homes, re-pricing risk, and setting new fixed-rate loans may be all that’s needed for most folks.
imo, neither greenspan nor rubin should be allow anywhere near the decision making process (i don’t know about volker).
fool me once, shame on you.
fool me twice, shame on me.
greenspan and rubin have proved they are not to be trusted.
“so they made bad loans, the simple solution is they have to continue the rates ad infinitum, they must be locked into the rates and they are not allowed to for close on those houses unless the homeowner can’t make payments on the original rates…”
_______
Nope. All financial intruments have a “holder-in-due-course” clause obligating the borrower to the terms of the instrument irrespective of whomever ends up owning it. Investors who bought these endlessly repackaged loan bundle “securities” paid according to the estimated value of the securities, which was based on the original terms. Lawyers will be fighting over this shit for the next 20 years.
Of course, none of the swell interim fee money will ever be returned.
Seems to me that any time they don’t know how to solve a problem they appoint a commission or committee to spread the blame, meet a few times, have a press conference and declare it solved. Gov’t by committee - hasn’t worked in a long time.
and apparently the Clinton campaign has not read this -
Volker: I Endorse Obama
yup
The other side of this is you want stability in the markets. This will never happen without regulation of and limitations on hedge funds and derivative trading.
oldgold,
The best “Sec. of Treas. in 50 years” is a pretty subjective claim. I think Bob made that money back. Bob lives to line his pockets.
The other side of this is you want stability in the markets. This will never happen without regulation of and limitations on hedge funds and derivative trading.
———–
thats it in a nutshell
on rubin:
sure looks that way.
alternatively he could have supported banking deregulation out of ideological blinders. either way, he’s not some one i want policy makers taking advice from now.
Yup. We need three things: regulation, enforcement, and stiff penalties. And more enforcement and stiff penalties after that.
many,may,many,many people and their kids will be homeless from this great/…man
I like the idea of NOT bailing out homes appraised above a certain price. That will shift based on zip code, because location is so much a factor. This also argues for state administration, which Sara at tnh has said would be a good thing in conjunction with HUD (hope I’m being reasonably accurate wrt what Sara wrote). I also think the write-down should be limited to the primary residence.
OT, I fully support writing down the value of mortgages, but that devaluation will ripple through our 401(k)’s and pensions.
There is a lot of blame to spread around for the economic crisis that this nation faces.
At the core of the problem is the notion that people should own homes and that real estate is an investment and completely separate from housing and shelter.
If you regulate some parts of the economy, you need to regulate all parts of the economy. If you bail out some sectors you need to provide a safety net for all sectors.
To my eye, there is some criminal behavior out there and I would count Mr. Greenspan among those who acted with negligence in his “duties”. He shouldn’t be getting rich on the pain he caused to millions.
The same applies to the mortgage industry, the financial industry which created what are false (without real value) financial instruments and sold them. That seems like fraud to me. And there would be a lot of players who should be fined and perhaps do some jail time for their scamming and misdeeds.
The consumers are not without guilt, but most of them are just doing what they were told to do and believing what they were told to believe (many lies here).
There are predators who speculated in real estate. This is a big problem.
Housing should be a not for profit sector or one with sever regulation. Wouldn’t that be a bummer for the real estate industry and all those people who buy, manage rental properties.
Since many people don’t want to own, can’t afford to “rental housing” will have to continue. But it should be completely controlled and stabilized to remove the profiteering and bubbling that speculators love.
We simply need to get away for the bubbles and speculators who create them and this goes back to strict regulation of the market. ALL THE EFFIN MARKETS.
We need an economy which serves the people and doesn’t create waste and spoil and extracts wealth from the labor of workers.
Fat chance.
a real coincidence he leads Citibank
Great catch, thanks.
bobby, the lenders need a bailout, thery take the terms of the bailout or they loose their investment
simple stuff here
If you trust Greenspan’s judgement then the great work he did for Charles Keating needs to overlooked. From Wiki:
Very good idea.
But the problem is that devalues all the paper and so forth created by these mortgages and that takes down the derivative markets and the big financial houses who gin up things like mortgages to make their money.
We’re simply at the impasse of who’s gonna take the haircuts. And, if history is any guide, it’ll be the taxpayers.
this needs to breeze around the intertubes…i did not know this…maestro of merde!
Agree and I would add “transparency.”
Hedges are referred to as “black boxes.”
This is somewhat off topic. I know you are intelligent and rational.
Do you believe that, at this point, there is any realistic way that Hillary Clinton could obtain the nomination without depending on superdeligates disregarding the deligate count or vote?
Do you believe that, at this point, Hillary Clinton could obtain the nomination without alienating a large portion of African-American Democrats to the point that they would not vote?
Do you believe there is any way that Hillary Clinton can withdraw or concede and convincingly support Obama rather than McCain?
it actually revalues the homes, they become more desireable at that rate, it also does not print paper since the original rates are what’s being payed, any other bailout will print paper.
this really works guys, the lenders can take the terms or loose the bailout and take their risks on default
we have history that tells us otherwise
it’s known as the new deal
Oh, yeah — let’s put the Wizard back on his throne. What a great idea — putting the free-market ideologue and Ayn Rand acolyte who created the problem in charge of the solution. That really makes sense.
off to play, see all later
as i said before,Hill is proving totally tone deaf
Perhaps she’ll suggest paroling Manson to run Community Watch Programs.
There are no money wise solutions to McBush economic fiasco. If I were a homeless beggar completely without resources one would have to adopt me and feed me and clothe and house me indefinitly for my survival. How can a completly bankrupt Federal government help a hopeless mortgage institution with listless leaders that have demonstrated their ineptness over and over again and again.
The Republicans need to keep pushing this economic disaster (much the same as Iraq occupation) beyond the 08 election. It seems to be the only successful mission they can acomplish. Printing massive amounts of money that has only promissory value and giving it to cash strapped and other favored money markets will stall the oncoming collapse of US economy probably past the election but will not keep America from giong belly-up eventually.
oh shit - forgot to change out of post mode…back in a sec…
Yes. Krugman is prodding all candidates, but especially Obama and Clinton, to seize this moment to improve the economic safety net. If you read through his column today, you’ll see he’s equally disappointed with both at the moment. It will be interesting to see how Obama responds to this.
split personality?
I would say it is deliberate triangulation. It is what the DLC and the Clintons truly believe in. It is their governing philosophy. It’s an attempt to mollify the liberal wing of the party by using people with “star quality” as oldgold put it. Low information voters are impressed by elites with names and faces they recognize.
Who’s Zoomin’ Who . . .
“Clinton also proposed greater protections for lenders from possible lawsuits by investors, a version of so-called tort reform more often associated with Republicans than Democrats.”
Yahoo Link
I did read through his column this morning. He does a good job of outlining the problem but doesn’t say much about the solution other than that more regulation is needed. To push this further, we need to explore just what regulations should be engaged.
I don’t think Hillary’s suggestion is a bad one- but it just kicks the can down the road without really offering a solution. Obama apparently has not mentioned a solution either.
Like I said earlier, lawyers.
Classic Clinton.
i don’t object to the idea of asking the “experts” - i just object to who gets to be considered the experts.
once again, i wish for some discernment - that the people who have have been the cheerleaders and enablers who helped get us into this mess are perhaps not the best “experts” for us to rely on now.
how about some economists who were warning us early on? i’d like to know what they have to say now.
Seems like a decent idea if it’s very narrow. If a bank is trying to salvage the situation by working with debtors but then has to face bein sued by the investors who bought the paper, they’ll be reluctant to negotiate a deal and everyone loses.
Her ideas make some sense to me.
One of Alan Greenspan’s first and in many ways biggest scams was the 1983 Social Security reform bill with its imaginary surpluses. These surpluses were and are in fact a backdoor tax on wage earners since they are spent as ordinary revenue (just like your income taxes) and were created to cover a commitment which would have been made anyway (even if they had never existed. The result was bipartisan support because lawmakers over the 34 year or so run of them got an extra couple of trillion to play around with. Currently, the “surpluses” are running about $200 billion a year and have been used to mask the size of Bush’s deficit spending even as they have sent the national debt above $9 trillion (because there they are not hidden).
I am actually SHOCKED that Hillary Clinton would even dream of even thinking of even considering Alan Greenspan for any role in the resurrection of our economy.
As I understand it, the basic regulation has to do with how much risk a bank can accept and how much of its funds it must maintain on hand and not lend out. In exchange, the the govt guarantee’s our bank deposits.
And it may be politically shrewed to suggest a bipartisan commission to examine a highly politicized topic. But putting Greenspan in charge of it was — interesting — and the link to Krugman was his general preference for some of the Clinton’s economic proposals (e.g., the health insurance mandate). I just thought the whole thing was ironic. Some here have called it “tone deaf,” which leaves an opening for Obama; or perhaps she’s listening to another tune. I prefer Bach, myself. Krugman’s conclusion, that the Wall Street contributions to the campaigns comes with an expectation is another interpretation.
We don’t as much need to expand the safety net as to abolish wall street and fractional banking, derivativies and other forms of trading “financial instruments”.
We need an economy founded on the commerce of goods and services, on manufacturing and re-manufacturing, or recycling and taking care of the environment.
We need to re do the class system as well as the “free market” system for capital.
We need a system of for and by the people and not the lords.
But he’s experienced. And he has gravitas.
this post is a parody news article, right?
SHOCKED!1!
worth at least skimming the wapo campaign responses today from the 3 candidate economic advisors …
From the recent 60 Minutes segment on the mortgage meltdown:
The lawsuits over who now wants into or out of ownership of chunks of these bad paper bundles will go on for 20 years — absent, of course, “retroactive immunity” for the lenders.
i know i’ve gotten some grief for saying that i don’t think either clinton nor obama are progressives. but, i’m going to stand by that statement until one of them advocates for consulting with progressive economists in order to find the best policies for our current situation.
Come on. Get real.
There are enough “left wing” economists who understand exactly how to fix this economy.
Where is the call for some other non free market pro capital solutions?
Do something about the war !
The Ads on this site pay to create media campaigns to change the US !!
http://www.pushtruth.com
I don’t know who all to suggest but there is Sheila Bair the current head of the FDIC who tried to get lenders early on to establish a voluntary set of guidelines after the government and Fed (under Greenspan) refused to regulate them.
First, as I have said here many times, I support Obama. I believe he is an excellent candidate. I believe Clinton is a very good candidate. It is for this reason that I feel compelled to defend her from what I consider to be vicious and thoughtless attacks. We are going to need her and her supporters in the fall.
Now as to your question, although I believe the current facts on the ground strongly suggest Obama will win the nomination and that Clinton will concede before the convention, I still believe there is more than a remote possibility she could win.
I recently read a book titled ‘The Black Swan’ that explores why humans are so uniformly poor at predicting what is going to happen next. We tend to fail miserably at predicting the future, but such failure is little noted or long remembered. Our problem is that we suffer from a folly called ‘confirmation bias.’ To make a long tale short, we tend to overestimate our knowledge and underestimate our ignorance. In particular as it relates to this race, our confirmation bias, doesn’t and, in fact, can’t, take into consideration ’silent evidence.’
Headlines to which we can look forward:
January 21, 2009
President Hillary Rodham Clinton today called for a Middle East summit to end the war in Iraq and pro,ote stability in the region.
Leading the U.S. delegation will be former President George W. Bush.
well, obama’s guy (wapo linky) did at least call for more regulation and oversight of financial industry. I agree w/ Krugman — no one is coming out w/ anything very convincing, but Goolsbee is at least calling for infrastructure investment and oversight.
Any written “promise to pay” is a recursively tradeable commodity (one with inherent risk). I still don’t see much aggregate appetite for reforming that.
I wonder why HRC would want to bring focus onto the man that made the claim that her husband was the best Republican president of his tenure?
Very Very Interesting.
Well THOSE regulations of banks are already firmly in plance- Krugman is talking about regulation of institutions that now BEHAVE like banks:
“America came out of the Great Depression with a pretty effective financial safety net, based on a fundamental quid pro quo: the government stood ready to rescue banks if they got in trouble, but only on the condition that those banks accept regulation of the risks they were allowed to take.
Over time, however, many of the roles traditionally filled by regulated banks were taken over by unregulated institutions — the “shadow banking system,” which relied on complex financial arrangements to bypass those safety regulations.
Now, the shadow banking system is facing the 21st-century equivalent of the wave of bank runs that swept America in the early 1930s. And the government is rushing in to help, with hundreds of billions from the Federal Reserve, and hundreds of billions more from government-sponsored institutions like Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Federal Home Loan Banks.
Given the risks to the economy if the financial system melts down, this rescue mission is justified. But you don’t have to be an economic radical, or even a vocal reformer like Representative Barney Frank, the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, to see that what’s happening now is the quid without the quo.
Last week Robert Rubin, the former Treasury secretary, declared that Mr. Frank is right about the need for expanded regulation. Mr. Rubin put it clearly: If Wall Street companies can count on being rescued like banks, then they need to be regulated like banks.”
Neither Rubin nor Krugman tell us much about the exact nature of the needed regulations…
yep, that’s me.
As someone elsewhere said on the same subject,
Everytime I see or hear the man I want to grab something, but note that this commission would not be an operating body. Also, there’s likely to be no way to have such a body without someone of Greenspan’s stripe on it.
:0===|
(that’s twolf’s shoulda been patented emotipuke)
“I recently read a book titled ‘The Black Swan’ …”
______
Oh, yes! That cat is my hero. The “Fooled by Randomness” dude, Taleb. I have his books. Great stuff.
Ding. Most people are unaware of Greenspan’s role in the housing bubble, much less his Social Security bait-and-switch games. And how would they know about them, given the way he is treated as a sage and oracle by the media? There is no down side for Clinton in this kind of proposal.
By the way, in reading the statement by Clinton, I don’t see anything that suggests that Greenspan will be in charge.
“
CAPITALISM IS based on the private ownership of production - the firms, workplaces and finance system. Capitalists make a living on this ownership by getting profit on their investments, instead of selling their labour power like the working class. There may be some parts of the economy under public ownership, but the privately run big companies are the most important part.
Private ownership did not start with capitalism. Slave society and feudalism were also based on private ownership. Ordinary people were exploited then as well. Slaves worked for only food and shelter; serfs in feudal times worked part of the week for the landowner or gave a part of their crops to them (or both).
The way workers are exploited under capitalism is different. The serf usually owned or had rights to land. Most food and other necessities were made by the serfs themselves. Workers today cannot grow their own food or make most of their own clothes. They are forced to work for the boss to make ends meet. (1)
Today we have the so-called “consumer society”. That means we must buy and sell to live. All parts of life become a commodity, something to be bought and sold, whether it is a TV, the latest music or our ability to work - that is why Marx called capitalism “generalised commodity production”.
This is the idea of the “market system” where everything is for sale. Right-wingers call it the “free market”. But there’s nothing free about the market when you’re low-paid. Neither can there be freedom when the world is divided out and stitched up by giant companies.
“
Now, now, there’ll be plenty of time for all that when he’s on the commission …
thank you, it’s good to know we still have some sane people in government. some days i think they’ve all been replaced by crony idiots, ideological fundamentalists and megalomaniacs.
It depends upon the kind of bank. Investment banks have held much smaller amounts in reserve so when there is a credit crunch or a run they don’t have the money to cover themselves. That is what happened to Bear Stearns and to the various hedge funds that went belly up. They had all of these highly leveraged investments backed up by nothing much more than a smile.
Forgive the off topic, ET has an election diary at kos that could use some recs:
Alaska ‘08 update
Do you advocate state ownership of the means of production?
Personally I am for the “overthrow” of capitalism. I don’t see any reason for anyone except the wealthy to support it.
If it collapses on its own weight I’ll take that too.
IF
We can build a more just society in its place.
Yes I do
The state is the people, last I check in the constitution.
As my good Marxist friend observed some years ago:
“Capitalism won”
Deja vu all over again!
October 2, 1998Fromm the BBC,
Done.
Egregious, my “done” referenced your DKos request.
If you bundle and sell the risk, you don’t have to reserve against it. You knock off your transaction fees, and then book and sell more risk. Lath, rinse, repeat…
Thta’s what’s been happening with fervor the past 4-5 years.
The free market system we life under is a bunch or patches and little bones thrown to people to keep them in their serflike lives;
sports
tv
consumerism in general
Meanwhile most people live now to service debt to the lords.
Alan Greenspan is typical of the Ayn Rand cult, Objectivism. Under no circumstance can there be regulation, without exception. He was part of Ayn’s Rand’s inner circle and continues to this day repeating that distorted view of life and capitalism. Nothing is more important than one’s own ego. It is his purpose to transform abstract knowledge into a physical form. This is the kind of thing the NeoCons do and the world it its petri dish.
I wonder if Hillary and Bill got caught up in the Objectivists cult when they were young and still cling to those ideas. It sounds like it.
Have you ever met a diehard Scientologist? Objectivism is compared to Scientology. Once you are entrenched in that thinking, you shut out anything else regardless of the facts around you.
Hillary’s ability to think for herself is my deepest concern. She is influenced so quickly with little question of what she is accepting.
May we never see the likes of another Greenspan nor NeoCon controlling our economy. Will we ever get away from the Austrian/Chicago University grip on economic theory?
I had forgotten that you support Obama. Your situation had been mine previously, I had come to support Obama, but defended Clinton against what I perceived as unfair criticism. Unfortunately, I’m afraid that too much damage has been done to party unity. Regarding you’re Black Swan theory, it won’t matter whether a large contingent of voters can forsee events, if they perceive the outcome as unfair. I’m afraid we are beyond that point now. Anyway, I appreciate your answer and sorry to all for the digression.
They sure did, but they are finding that it was all worthless bank notes and bonds of no value.
Thank you, BooRadley
my bold
Selise,
I agree with you as to the progressive nature of their politics, but
what about is guy? - an unofficial consultant to the Obama campaign
and will try and find an article from last month showing over half of the economists endorsing JRE went to the Obama camp and why
1,791 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Scarecrow and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Is there any question anymore about Mrs.Clinton-McCain’s political identity?!! Why hasn’t the leadership of the Democratic Party told her ta concede or get drummed out of the party? Every day the Clinton-McCain campaign announces another position or program proposal that serves to marginalize progressive options and draws attention away from the Bush administration and the real causes of the problems that should be the center points (plural)of the campaign. It is clear to this old Scandinavian Democrat that the oligarchy has given Clinton-McCain orders to stay in as long as possible to draw attention away from the dismal failure of Bush fascism and set up talkin’ points in the campaign against Barak Obama.
Enough already…can anyone out there tell me why Mrs. Clinton-McCain is not bein’ sued for runnin’ as a Democrat??!! And don’t give me anymore a this insane bullshit about Mrs. Clinton-McCain bein’ appointed to the Supreme Court…shit, she wouldn’t be guaranteed not ta appoint Scalia’s son to the Court if she were President!!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE FUCKIN’ AMMUNITION…THE GENERAL ELECTION HAS ALREADY STARTED!!
The point is we don’t need a bipartisan commission at all. Progressives are overflowing with ideas about how to handle this. The Clintons use this tactic in order to make way for a proposal that progressives won’t like. They use it for cover.
I think blacks would protest, and make a hell of a lot of noise if Hill gave them the finger. They might hold their nose if the force Obi to be the VP.
I agree the laws of supply and demand explain the way consumers behave.
I also think it’s important to remember, however, that most world markets are cartels, dominated by a very few suppliers. Free market capitalism, as formulated by Adam Smith, anticipated a level of competition that no longer exists. What’s left of the US manufacturing base continues to contract, because it is up against state controlled competitors.
Hmm - are we talking about the Clinton Treasury Secretary who smashed the Glass-Steagal firewall between commercial and investment banking (thus allowing the merger that created Citi, where he jumped in as vice chair)?
…or the Robert Rubin whose neoliberal spawn - the Hamilton Society - so excited Sen Obama he showed to share his ejaculations of praise and obeisance when the hell-child hatched out?
Of course what looks like fresh air to Senator Obama looks to me like pols drawing a deep breath as they switch off rimming Wall Street.
I’m sorry I can’t figure out which Robert Rubin we’re discussing: I just can’t keep my Wall Street tycoons in $2,000 suits straight.
Of course, when it comes to fellating Wall Street and the neoliberal priests of our ecnomic catastrophe, I can’t keep Sen Clinton and Sen Obama straight, either.
Does the Oval Office come with kneepads?
I see no evidence that the workers of the world eat better in a Marxist society. I certainly hope that we never see such a thing in this country.
i think it also has to do with keeping different types of financial institutions separate inorder to create firewalls - that way if one sector has problems it is more likely to be contained within that sector. this is one of the major regulations was removed under clinton with the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act.
This is OT but seeings how that little bastard Short ride has found a permanent place in my heart(burn) I thought I would share this.
Editorial »Editorial
We Don’t Know This Sen. Joe
Sen. Lieberman has been too busy burning bridges to build any.
http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?.....2fb2f5373b
Lucky me, they opened it up to comments.
LMAO, I gave them my and Punaise’ standard lament for them to decide whether or not to print.
Buyers Remorse, finally.
Frontline has an excellent and highly readable timeline of the demise of the banking regulations instituted following the Great Depression:
This should be required reading for anyone wanting to understand how we came to be in the fix we’re in.
“IN THE early days of capitalism the family owned firm was normal. As more “efficient” firms swallowed others, great monopolies began to run the world. As surplus value became greater and greater, the money created through workers’ labour began to be traded through finance companies. Big banks became giants.
Building societies, insurance companies and pension funds have developed to trade people’s money for a profit. The modern capitalist may never have been to the company s/he invests in. The stock exchange lists shares in the big firms and government stocks. The capitalist’s leisurely pastime involves gambling with our money by picking out the stocks and shares she or he thinks will be the best bet.
The biggest gamble is on the money markets. By buying and selling the world’s currencies trillions of dollars are traded worldwide every day! And then we’re told there is no money for public services or benefits.”
even I knew that was a bad idea idea at the time.
Thanks for that link.
Doc,
Thanks for that reminder about the Hamilton Society.
We really need to tar and feather the whole “banker class” and run them off to the Caymans.
which guy?
Greenspan? Really? GREENSPAN? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLjJbzxjJfI
Where is a wooden stake when you need one?
fyi -
Phil Gramm is listed on McCain’s site as principal economic advisor
James Rubin, son of Robert is on the Obama campaign staff
It’s not clear that anyone has much of a solution beyond generalities yet. That’s because it’s a nasty problem. Basically it boils down to creating evasion-proof, supervisory laxness-proof regulations, which sounds pretty near impossible to me.
And the regs that were in place when this shadow system began developing in the late 80s or whenever, many of which are actually in force, actually covered standard kinds of financial activity well enough that the unregulated alternatives are …prolix. That’s what I’ll call them. Prolix. Man, what a euphemism.
I think there are a lot of econs out there trying to envision solutions, where you actually have to address the details of what has happened, who alternate quaking fits and catatonia.
sorry Selise, -
Brad DeLong
How did Marxism vs. Capitalism get into this discussion? I missed that. There are many more ways for a society to manage its economics than either or. Adam Smith must be rolling over in his grave at what passes as capitalism today. His words were:
“The primary purpose of a corporation is to serve the community.”
We ended up with this Robber Baron Capitalism that has fleeced the American people for the purpose of inflating its own coffers. Money needs to circulate. If pooled in the hands of a few, the economy spirals downward.
Obama shows evidence of openly evaluating ideas. FDR also tried out a whole bunch of ideas, abandoning those that didn’t work.
The Clintons, on the other hand, already know the conclusion they want to reach. It’s the DLC third way. And they use bipartisan commissions as cover to get there.
Sorry for misspelling “Stegall” - every time I think of the repeal, all I see Smeagol: enthralled with desire for the lump of gold that would destroy him.
Uh, let’s not be advocating tar and feathering at FDL; also, I expect most of the culprits already take advantage of the Caymans.
thank you for that tidbit, cbl
“Basically it boils down to creating evasion-proof, supervisory laxness-proof regulations, which sounds pretty near impossible to me.”
_______
My concern as well. I just don’t see any accruing support for “more regulation.” Better to kicj the can down the road several more years out with even more inscrutable gimmicks.
I totally agree. I think basing the economy of a country on what two or three stock exchanges do is insane. The “market” is nothing more than a vehicle for the wealthy to increase their wealth. It serves no other purpose. Replace the words “economic growth” with “increase in wealth” and “more jobs” with “increased corporate profits” you get the real meaning of what politicians are saying when they talk about building new stadiums with tax dollars, as one example. They don’t give a rat’s ass about whether you or I better ourselves financially. It’s all about that 1% of the population that controls the majority of the wealth of the country. The Fed is going to bail out the investment banks because they’re not going to let their friends take a bath on the market if they can help it. J P Morgan and the Fed told the majority of Bear Sterns stockholders to get hosed. The executives may have lost a wad in the deal but it will soon be replaced through the auspices of J P Morgan. The little guys lose their shirt. Greenspan is the guru of deregulation and with Bill Clinton being the most business-friendly Democrat in the White House his status as adviser is understandable. They don’t see the system as broken.
thanks for the obama link - that’s was news to me. and quite discouraging (although i shouldn’t be surprised)
Stiglitz has exquisitely faint praise for Rubin in The Roaring Nineties, along with some matter-of-fact declarations of who favored what on certain issues, like Glass-Steagall.
lol!!
Since so much of the Liberal blogs’ rise has come from railing against the DLC Dems (Blue America, “More and Better”), it’s been so bizarre to me to see so many fellow Liberals defend The Clintons, who are essentially founders and even the current leaders of the DLC.
Do these Liberals simply believe that DLC Democrats are really the way to go? I know people can make a case for this and that’s fine, but I wonder how they justify their support of the DLC candidate and their support of Blue America at the same time. I’m simply curious since it just doesn’t compute in my head. I know people offer other reasons as well to support Clinton, but this central point seems completely out of whack to me.
And before someone brings up Austan Goolsbee, there’s really no honest comparison between Obama and Clinton on the DLC front. Really.
Thanks for the book suggestion, pd. And thanks to Scarecrow for this astounding post. As cynical as I am, this still shocked me. Thanks for learning me, Scarecrow.
1,791 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen rwcole:
“I see no evidence that workers of the world eat better in a Marxist society.”
Ah come on Brother Cole, don’t go flingin’ those old dead, red herrings around to deflect attention away from the immediate reality that capitalism is collapsing from the last 8 years of imposition of it’s most pure form. Jesus Citizen Cole, if I were you I wouldn’t draw attention to the fact that a Marxist analysis of the current economic crisis nails it! I’m am really disappointed rw, I expected intellectual honesty from you not ideological doggerel.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T CUT OFF YER LEG ‘CUZ A GOT A SORE TOE!!
The problem is of course that they bought into the market instead of just cycling the paper and taking the fees. This left them with billions of dollars of exposure. Then on top of that they also gambled in derivatives so their exposure went from billions to trillions.
I can kind of see the upside bubble mentality. You not only get the fees but by investing in mortgages as home prices are increasing the value of the underlying asset increases. At the same time, gambling in derivatives is like printing money because there is almost no risk that anyone is going to default so you don’t really need to cover anything.
This works until the bubble bursts and then you are left with huge obligations and almost nothing underpinning it.
Which brings me to the Black Swan. I don’t know if anyone could have guessed the popularity of iPods or cellphones and how quickly they would become commonplace and indispensable but other things like the dot com or mortgage bubbles were foreseeable. Anything that is big enough to qualify as a bubble has to big enough to cause a major disruption in the markets. This means it doesn’t have to be simply large but huge. You may not know when the bubble will burst but you know it will. With the dot com bust, I started thinking it could happen anytime 3 years before it actually did. With the mortgage crisis, things were a little clearer since since the way the loans were set up they would start going splat in a big way in 2006. And this is what happened with the first mortgage companies having problems then and going belly up at the end of the year. From there things just kept snowballing until the summer of 2007. So in that case it was much easier to know when the bubble was going to burst.
brad delong - he who has, on his blog (although i don’t know about recently, i stopped reading him) tried to justify (many, many times) his support for capital flow deregulation as something we should force other countries to participate in? the deregulation that has been a major (if not the major) contributing factor to instability in world financial markets and the loss of sovereignty by democratic processes throughout the world?
that brad delong?
no fucking way.
Nonsense. It’s a politician showing up to glad hand at an opening celebration. That’s what politicians do. It’s more important to pay attention to the policies they put forth.
We know that Obama and Clinton are not progressives. But my impression is that Obama is much more open about trying new ideas. The DLCers like to dress up old conservative ideas in a way that appeals to voters.
Great post.
By and large, this thread contains some of the best, most-thoughtful, informative, AND civil commentary I’ve seen in some time.
Exceptions NOT noted.
Thank you, all …
Another interesting debate among economists. In his column today, Krugman comments on Obama’s speech which links the war to the current economic/financial crisis. Krugman argues that war spending is somewhat expansionary, and points to the Korean war. In The Three Billion Dollar War, Stiglitz and Bilmes argue that most economists not longer believe that going to war is a net economic benefit, because all of the direct and indirect effects on government investment and privte investment make things worse. they argue the the Iraq war has damaged the economy, as Obama claims. And I think there probably is a broad consensus that if you want to stimulate the economy, spending on war is not nearly as effective as non-war domestic spending/investment.
do please share what gives you this impression.
serious question. i’m looking for evidence, not impressions.
Yeah, what just crashed through my brain is that there might possibly be a lot more return from some strategic enforcement.
Of course, that would have to be handled by our Department of Justice [sob]. Talk about a willful lack of system capacity!
Anyway, that and possibly focussing the reg effort on controlling the parts of the financial system nearest the consumers, who after all are the ultimate main sources of both financial assets and lendable funds.
Yes, and thank you all for an excellent discussion. Later.
Solutions:
Outlaw fraction reserve banking.
Issue new currency to depositors which cannot be used for fractional lending.
Outlaw financial instruments period.
Who cares what happens to the millionaires of wall street.
The workers of those companies are to be paid from the assets of the corporate share holders until they can be put to work in real jobs!
Investment for business? From government loans END OF STORY.
Get rid of the money lenders.
Sorry to be OT but just heard Dylan’s “Masters of War” for the first time in a long time. Needs to be heard more often today. Things haven’t changed all that much.
Why would blacks be the only ones protesting? It has been more than blacks voting for Obama, so wouldn’t all those different groups protest too?
The Lords don’t want to stimulate the economy. War profits are a much easier and less accountable means to expanding wealth.
The lords care not about the state of the economy because it hardly effects them at all.
It’s the little people who take a beating.
That was in response to an earlier question about what blacks would do if Hill got the nod from the SuperDs.
Thanks, scarecrow. Say hi to the fields for us!
Instead of helping American citizens, we’re seeing a monumental transfer of wealth from the middle and working classes to the richest.
It’s shameful. As someone who grew up in a family of union workers (Railroad and Teamsters), I have seen in my lifetime just how badly those of us who work for a living have been abused. I see it starting during the Reagan Administration, and for that alone, I curse his memory.
But it’s all accelerated to the point where the government is now giving the biggest banks cash money to buy up another big bank (the word “bank” really doesn’t mean anything any more), while the millions of us who now have negative equity in their homes are told that any help they might receive would pose a “moral hazard”.
Fuck them.
What IS a moral hazard?
I’d like eCAHN’s opinion on this.
which is?
“We are in danger of being overwhelmed with irredeemable paper, mere paper, representing not gold nor silver; no sir, representing nothing but broken promises, bad faith, bankrupt corporations, cheated creditors and a ruined people.” Daniel Webster, speech in the Senate, 1833
Excellent quote. Nothing changes. Lessen not learned.
I’m not entirely sure that PK on the one hand and S&B on the other disagree, once the time frame has been settled. Krugman’s point is directed to more or less immediate, out to maybe a year or two, results, over which time the immediate scurrying around from the war spending produces a boost. I think he used the example of the Vietnam War boom of I guess the latter 1960s, but and even starker example might be WWII.
Shorter horizons like this are typical of political-economic policy given our election cycle, but they are also genuinely relevant in that they point to factors that have to be accounted for in making a policy switch. Probably most economists would agree that in reducing the war activity, and accordingly the war spending, some kinds of offset spending would be needed to keep from slowing down the economy, insofar as it’s not overheated (as maybe it was during the 60s). We can all think of some I’m sure. One thing to be prepared for under a Democratic administration, I hope, is to fight for the peace dividend to be used on vital domestic needs.
Bilmes & Stiglitz on the other hand looked at a long time horizon, which is the correct frame for evaluating the decision for such a momentous undertaking —especially at the beginning, dammit. The follow-on costs that they identify also continue long past the end of actual war activities, whenever that should be, which means that it is not at all mathematically inconsistent to have a short-run boost but a long-run and overall loss, a particularly tragic example of sinning in haste but repenting at leisure.
So to wrap it up, Krugman says we are enjoying the devil’s bounty today (meager though that be for many), and if we leave its table have still to be prepared to lay out another; while Bilmes and Stiglitz say we never should have taken that seat, even as a purely economic matter. I think both are right.
It is the acceptance of a risk. Home buyers were being told that they were stupid for signing on for loans and loan terms they could not make good on because they had accepted the moral hazard posed by those loans. The hypocrisy of all this became obvious when the Fed tripped all over itself to help markets who had done precisely the same.
All people are equal, except some are more equal.
Another poster expressed support for public ownership of the means of production. This, of course, constitutes marxism. I expessed my own point of view concerning this. I don’t understand your comment.
I’m patiently waiting for the ”econ op-eds” to move further into the vortex. No one yet has taken a second step near the precipice and looked over the edge into the noxious spewing volcano. The collaberation of real estate brokers, lenders, and the Bush/Paulson/Greenspan wizardry of ”stimulating” the economy thru artificial market manipulation of real estate valuation. To jumpstart the US economy as it sagged toward recession from the dot.com bubble as well as the exit of industry, jobs, and tax revenue lost via NAFTA. Fistfuls of greenbacks needed to be pumped into the hands of people to spend since our GDP is primarily consumerism (78%). Home values in the past 7 years doubled, tripled, and quadrupled out of nowhere. Interest rates fell. For the last 7 years, the US economy has not only survived on Japan’s carry trade but on the artificial home equity bonanza. And Greenspan’s allowance of ARM’s that have sunk the little people. (But then again his job was to protect the rich and offshore entitities)And now the excessive housing market values are depreciating to realistic levels.
Mrs. Clinton suggests appointing Alan Greenspan to a Housing Commission. Its task would be to ameliorate the
“subprime”national housing crisis - primarily with the interests of homeowners, not their lenders, in mind. Presumably, that’s because it will be homeowners’ “blood, toil, tears and sweat” - either directly or through their tax dollars - which repay those mortgages, and the securities into which they’ve been incorporated and sold worldwide, at immense profit, by the likes of Bear Stearns.Mrs. Clinton’s suggestion is the New Yorker cartoon from hell; fill in your own caption.
To me, it is reminiscent of making a drunken frat boy clean up his own vomit. Except that this frat boy would sweep it under the carpet, since he puked in all the frat and sorority houses on campus except his own.
Only a financial industry lobbyist could have dreamt that one up. The bait is a Commission, which might give America’s middle and working classes modest relief from the harsh and sometimes criminal lending and debt collection practices of a less and less regulated financial industry. Relief made all the more necessary by the acceleration of economic changes - and the tearing apart of our social safety net - during Bush’s eight-year binge as president. The hook, however, is that Alan Greenspan and his ideological peers would run it. The line and reel are the credit industry.
It’s a suggestion Mrs. Clinton should quickly disavow as her senior moment.
The not-early ‘onset’ of political dementia has, seemingly, achieved widespread contagion.
The only known pallative is knowledge and the wit to make use of it.
Examples are sorely lacking, these days…
Let’s start by putting some of these fuckers in jail, then let the market work. The Repugs are always carping about too much regulation, but take it away and it always turns out this way. The law however, should be our backstop for all this. The problem is that they always, for the most part, get away with their perfidy. Let the cows come home for a change and this shit will stop. I would sure like one of the candidates to state: “When I am President, I will direct the Justice Department to make it a priority to find the lawbreakers and put them in jail. The days where someone can cost regular people billions of dollars in losses while they waltz off with millions in bonuses is over!” THAT is the candidate who will win the election.
Get white collar criminals and put them away!
Their crimes hurt millions of people not just the owner of a bodega who got robbed.
Nothing improves the pithy, “Ignorance is curable, stupidity is terminal.”
How much more insane a suggestion could Clinton come up with as in floating the idea of having Greenspan oversee anything other than the geriatric set palying shuffle board in Miami?
What we are witnessing, through the now-failing obscene use of derivatives, is the entrails of the prolonging of failed fiat money system which began its decay when the world was forced onto a pure fiat money system with President Nixon’s revocation of the Gold Standard in 1971.
ALL FIAT CURRENCIES COLLAPSE, because the debt that they represent grows exponentially, eventually overwhelming the ability of any economy to even pay the interest on the debt. This is why interest rates are declining towards zero. Eventually, even interest rates of .1% will be too high to pay and the defaults will implode the financial system. Notice that I did not say the defaults would implode the economy. That will still stagger on, because that is operated by people whole trade real goods and services. It’s the financial system that will disappear and be replaced by honest money.
Clearly the system is collapsing now. Last week’s drop of 12% in gold is a sign of instability in the paper system, not a vote of non-confidence in real money. The sell off was contrived by the monetary interests and I expect it will have unintended consequences. For example, taking gold down, means that the perceived value of the US dollar and other paper currencies are raised. But, the problem with taking the price of gold down by raising margin hugely is that the powers that be may have forced any number of hedge funds [or dealers that behave like hedge funds] that were long gold and silver towards bankruptcy.
To save themselves these hedge funds may be forced to sell CDO’s and other derivatives that are already illiquid. The values of these derivatives which had been in limbo will be exposed as worthless, and that in turn may expose banks who hold this stuff on their balance sheet as visibly insolvent. It is the rule of unintended consequences biting the manipulators on the butt. Nobody out there understands the complexity of the derivative markets. It’s an immense financial domino system, and the plunge protection team may have just tipped dozens of dominoes over. Their collapse is doing to spread and widen until it reaches right back onto the balance sheets of the money center banks. The Fed is going to have to monetize trillions of this crap to stop the dominoes of failure and that’s going to kill the dollar and the rest of the fake money out there.
All fiat money is debt. Debt charges a percentage interest rate. All percentage rates generate exponential increase. In time even the smallest percentage interest will exceed the entire economy’s ability to pay.
In our world banks create the money we use out of thin air and charge us 5% per year to use it. Eventually the banks end up owning everything and the people are universally bankrupt. It’s a form of slavery.
“Of course, because the suggestion comes from Hillary, it must be pilloried in the most excessive language possible.”
Indeed. If this had been a suggestion from Obama some people would be singing hosannas here about his sagacity. With the deep financial crisis that is besetting us, it would be foolish not to avail of all the best economists in the country, including the Obama supporter, Volcker, and the occasional Obama critic, Krugman.