Comments on: On Keith Ellison, the First Muslim—and My–Congressman in the US http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/ Firedoglake weblog Fri, 27 Nov 2009 01:20:27 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: dmac http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353483 dmac Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:22:32 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353483 <p>preznit at 16–your zombie jesus remark didn’t offend me.</p> <p>when i was little, that’s what i thought……rose from the dead, that’s a zombie!</p> <p>it had to all be explained to me a couple of times…..</p> <p>so, your remark didn’t bother me. * g *</p> preznit at 16–your zombie jesus remark didn’t offend me.

when i was little, that’s what i thought……rose from the dead, that’s a zombie!

it had to all be explained to me a couple of times…..

so, your remark didn’t bother me. * g *

]]> By: Biodun Iginla http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353447 Biodun Iginla Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:03:32 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353447 <p>my own coordinates are on my website–if you click on my name…</p> my own coordinates are on my website–if you click on my name…

]]> By: BooRadley http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353425 BooRadley Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:51:11 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353425 <p>Well said. </p> <p>The problem is that religious intolerance isn’t such a big deal if you live in a place that embraces the Enlightenment/separation of Church/Mosque/Temple/whatever and State. The pre-Enlightenment power of religion came in large part with its involvement with the wider culture. Your job was dependent on you worshipping the religion of your state. If you didn’t, you lost your job, and your family and friends shunned you. AFAIK, Mormons are still like that.</p> Well said.

The problem is that religious intolerance isn’t such a big deal if you live in a place that embraces the Enlightenment/separation of Church/Mosque/Temple/whatever and State. The pre-Enlightenment power of religion came in large part with its involvement with the wider culture. Your job was dependent on you worshipping the religion of your state. If you didn’t, you lost your job, and your family and friends shunned you. AFAIK, Mormons are still like that.

]]> By: kevinp http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353407 kevinp Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:42:56 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353407 <p>Believe it or not, not all wars are about religion. Some are and were, even in ancient times. I was just refering the the subject of religious intolerance. This is a complex subject, which is why I said it was a place to <strong>start</strong>.</p> Believe it or not, not all wars are about religion. Some are and were, even in ancient times. I was just refering the the subject of religious intolerance. This is a complex subject, which is why I said it was a place to start.

]]> By: hackworth http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353395 hackworth Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:35:52 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353395 <p>Right from the start, it was the smaller group - the Christians who started flinging poo at the Roman Polythiests. Christianity is about <strong>conversion</strong>. The Christians <strong>can’t</strong> leave people alone.</p> Right from the start, it was the smaller group – the Christians who started flinging poo at the Roman Polythiests. Christianity is about conversion. The Christians can’t leave people alone.

]]> By: BooRadley http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353392 BooRadley Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:35:26 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353392 <p>It’s a nice survey on some Roman emperors. Unfortunately, it just happens to leave out the Romans destroying Jerusalem in 70 and 125ce. </p> <p>So the polytheistic Native American tribes were “tolerant” of each other for centuries? </p> <p>Why do you think the Crow were scouting for Custer at the Little Big Horn? Even after centuries of exploitation by European Americans, the Crow still hated the Sioux more than the European Americans. </p> <p>Luther didn’t consider the Roman Catholic Church “monotheistic.” It was one of the reasons he tried to reform it. How is Xtianity monotheistic if there’s a Trinity? Isn’t Mary the Mother of God to some Xtians? Doesn’t that make four? </p> <p>I understand the argument you’re trying to make, I just don’t think it works, either historically or theologically.</p> It’s a nice survey on some Roman emperors. Unfortunately, it just happens to leave out the Romans destroying Jerusalem in 70 and 125ce.

So the polytheistic Native American tribes were “tolerant” of each other for centuries?

Why do you think the Crow were scouting for Custer at the Little Big Horn? Even after centuries of exploitation by European Americans, the Crow still hated the Sioux more than the European Americans.

Luther didn’t consider the Roman Catholic Church “monotheistic.” It was one of the reasons he tried to reform it. How is Xtianity monotheistic if there’s a Trinity? Isn’t Mary the Mother of God to some Xtians? Doesn’t that make four?

I understand the argument you’re trying to make, I just don’t think it works, either historically or theologically.

]]> By: GretchenD http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353386 GretchenD Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:33:09 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353386 <p>Well,happy Easter, then.</p> Well,happy Easter, then.

]]> By: hackworth http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353375 hackworth Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:22:47 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353375 <p>So, is it just an <em>unrealistic dream to think that increasing tolerance and mutual acceptance could overcome this need to convert </em>all to one’s own views? I’m an idealist here, but I have to agree that you have history on your side. I’ve been reading up on <em>Buddhism and it seems pretty forgiving.</em></p> <p>You are right. Buddhism is pretty good, but the Buddhist is still at odds with other factions. You can’t increase tolerance and mutual acceptance so long as Religions hold sway over the majority. Here’s the rub: If societies continues to support disparate and various religious ideologies, they will not be capable of reaching the goals you suggest. </p> <p>All religions should be thrown out and ridiculed for the harm they have caused humankind. Enlightenment thinking, progressive thought and ideas are the only real way to coexist in peace and confront the world’s problems (our problems). That means you can’t keep Buddhism, either. No Sky Gods.</p> So, is it just an unrealistic dream to think that increasing tolerance and mutual acceptance could overcome this need to convert all to one’s own views? I’m an idealist here, but I have to agree that you have history on your side. I’ve been reading up on Buddhism and it seems pretty forgiving.

You are right. Buddhism is pretty good, but the Buddhist is still at odds with other factions. You can’t increase tolerance and mutual acceptance so long as Religions hold sway over the majority. Here’s the rub: If societies continues to support disparate and various religious ideologies, they will not be capable of reaching the goals you suggest.

All religions should be thrown out and ridiculed for the harm they have caused humankind. Enlightenment thinking, progressive thought and ideas are the only real way to coexist in peace and confront the world’s problems (our problems). That means you can’t keep Buddhism, either. No Sky Gods.

]]> By: kevinp http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353351 kevinp Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:07:12 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353351 <p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_religion_in_ancient_Rome" rel="nofollow">Here’s</a> a place to start.</p> Here’s a place to start.

]]> By: hackworth http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353340 hackworth Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:01:37 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/23/on-keith-ellison-the-first-muslim%e2%80%94and-my-congressman-in-the-us/#comment-1353340 <p>I don’t know much about polytheists. Its logical, though, your point. More gods could be shared (and they were to great deal, albeit with different names) by different polythesistic groups. Each would require a Sun God, obviously. A Fertility God, Water God, etc. </p> <p>You are correct. There is less to fight about with many gods as opposed to one Grand Poobah (whom the other team identifies as a fraud).</p> I don’t know much about polytheists. Its logical, though, your point. More gods could be shared (and they were to great deal, albeit with different names) by different polythesistic groups. Each would require a Sun God, obviously. A Fertility God, Water God, etc.

You are correct. There is less to fight about with many gods as opposed to one Grand Poobah (whom the other team identifies as a fraud).

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